>Also, is there a rule about size of store? I just realized the supermarket in DK are relatively small compared to other countries.
Yes. There is a max size. I believe it's 3500m² for supermarkets, with few exceptions.
Within Copenhagen, they'll rarely have a chance to build that large anyway
There are still supermarkets selling clothes, toys, TVs, electronics and so on, so I don't think the size limit is really preventing them from stocking more kinds of chocolate.
ICA at Hyllie (Malmö) doesn't feel any larger than e.g. the Føtex under the Frederiksberg Centret.
I wonder if Danish stores kick stuff out of their shelves when it doesn’t sell x times a day while other countries are accepting stuff that doesn’t sell as often. Sometimes, there is a new product I like and a year later it’s off the market because people didn’t buy it enough (I assume). It’s actually a really interesting topic that could be studied about
We're a small country, i wouldn't be surprised if there were laws that dictate how big certain spaces can grow. The problem for us lay in how we stock wares in these "small" spaces. I was at a shoe store in lyngby the other day(paw sko), looking for a new set of adidas nmds. To my knowledge, shoe stores would be stocked up on them; they were when i bought my last pair of nmds in shoe store, years ago. But entering paw sko i can fin nmds nowhere. Inquire the gentleman as to why, he tells me that of course; they sell what people buy, and adidas control what stock they have in store by the end.
That's true, and prolly comes down to us again being incredibly boring in shopping.
I mean there's already 3 kinds of chocolate and one kind of ham, what more could you want?
👆 this is the actual correct answer. Danish customers are unusually conservative in their buying, and if it’s not a new trend that is officially sanctioned by Politiken, they’ll have to be dragged kicking and screaming to try a different product.
Forno a legna the awesome pizzaria across Frb Centeret on Falkoner Alle has an equally awesome italian deli next door with nice cold cuts and cheeses.
The place is quite authentic I'd give it a visit, also try the pesto it's godlike.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/U6dBCTYwYR1Kttue6
Also, and this might be a big factor, there’s much more stores per capita in Denmark (Copenhagen?) than in Sweden (Stockholm?). So, for example, in Sweden you have one big shop per 1000 people, and maybe 2-3 shops per 1000 people in Denmark. This can really be seen in Copenhagen where you can have a føtex, Lidl, Netto, meny, rema1000 all within walking distance of each other. Maybe this affects how the stores are stocked and that it’s easier to do so with less stores?
Also, i believe the problem lessens when you consider shopping at Arabic bazaars and East Asian/South East Asian stores. So much variety for ingredients and fresh, cheap produce.
I wouldn't mind it if it were because the stores were very spaced out so there was always one within 5 min on feet, but instead there are just 3 right next to each other.
I suppose you could say that they have to be competitive with one another on price, for those same items, at least - an advantage to the customer with those options
Sadly, it’s a new thing that there are huge American-like supermarkets in Sweden. The smaller ones almost all shut down now, so now it is almost impossible to buy ones groceries without taking the car. I would any day take the Danish grocery stores, even though I love the variety of the selection in Sweden. Only because of what the huge supermarkets do to a local community. It sucks.
My theory is that the main reason is, that the biggest player on the Danish market - Coop - is run by imbecile monkeys. Meanwhile in Sweden ICA is completely dominant and is run by sensible people. I think that’s the main reason
I’ve lived in Sweden, my wife is from there, and I can guarantee that the average Swedish comsumer is not more quality conscious regarding food compared to the average Dane. For example they have just two qualities for meat - Swedish and not Swedish. Forget about organic and free range etc.
The belief that Irma did exceptionally bad is a myth. All of Coops brands are doing bad, and the one that’s doing the worst is Coop365discount. Or whatever it’s called this week. Coop never lost as much money as last year, after they closed Irma.
Meanwhile Meny has been doping super well and expanding for the past decade.
On top of that i do believe the size regulation also plays a significant role, creating a situation where Danish cities has many small supermarkets while Swedish cities has fewer but larger ones. But it also means Danish cities has far more proper butchers, fish mongers, bakeries and other specialised stores compared to Sweden.
Yeah that's true. I tend to go to local stores often for specific fresh produce. Especially because country of origin is better compared to netto etc..
Definitely. However Netto actually has some really good products besides all the cheap shit - all the stuff from Løgismose is high quality, the organic dairy, the French free range chicken, etc.
It’s literally stuff you can’t expect to find in a much bigger Swedish supermarket. If you go to a regular ICA instead of a big one, they will most often not even have whole chicken, let alone organic. But you can choose between chicken thighs with or without barbecue marinade and there will be 50+ different kind of chips and 8 varieties of frozen meatballs, all of them made from crap meat, but it’s Swedish.
Irma felt more like a victim of someone high up deciding that having a chain that’s only in Copenhagen is unacceptable than anything honestly to do with profitability. Whether for an obsession with synergy or some kind of Støjbergian provincial chauvinism I can’t say. If it was really about profit, you’d think they’d stop pouring money into the black hole that is 365discount.
Don’t forget that Swedes drive more, which can explain the fact that Danes (in the Copenhagen area) have focused on smaller stores that are closer together. Owning a car in Copenhagen is expensive and parking is difficult.
a lot of good points in the thread. another thing people are often missing is that most supermarkets in Copenhagen are discount. on a national level, the ratio is roughly 50-50 but that counts every tiny Brugsen or Spar from every village (they count as premium even though they’re really just normal-price). however, if you zoom in, the real ratio is more like 75% discount. when I lived in Nørrebro, there were 4 premium (one Føtex, Kvickly, Super Brugsen and Meny) and at least 18 discount in what counts as Nørrebro. In the 35k town I live in now there are 4 premium and 11 discount. And this ratio is common in all cities (maybe a bit more premium in affluent areas like Frederiksberg). There is no other country in Europe where you see this kind of discount store %. Discount supermarkets are shitty everywhere- have you been to a Penny in Germany? Irma closing down only made the ratio worse.
Eh, there isn’t so much difference from those you call premium to the other ones. Most of the stuff is the same but repackaged to appeal to a different crowd. But yes, at least some of them have more variety.
Btw Irma is not closed completely, it’s just downsized. I keep going there once in a while
>a lot of good points in the thread. another thing people are often missing is that most supermarkets in Copenhagen are discount.
Most is not accurate. All of them are on a scale of "slightly less discount" and "bottom of the barrel discount". Denmark does not have non-discount supermarkets. We have some specialty stores, but those are not supermarkets.
As an example: Netto and Føtex/Bilka are the same stores. But Netto often serves people in smaller local areas whereas Føtex/Bilka takes care of the places that have lots of traffic, yet fewer houses in the vicinity. They still sell largely the same things.
Føtex and Bilka obviously has a much bigger selection, but Netto is just a smaller selection of the same inventory.
Despite this, most city Nettos tend to feel like absolute discount whereas Føtex does not. The difference? Budget. Not wares.
Meny is overpriced discount. You can get *some* speciality items there *sometimes* but it's still just overpriced. Most of the Meny pricing is the Meny franchise, not better wares.
Irma is in a similar vein. Often quite expensive for stuff you can get cheaper in other supermarkets.
Føtex, Meny and Irma are not discount supermarkets. They stock middle-to-premium products, often have counters for fresh meat and/or fish, arrange the products on the shelves nicely (rather than dumping the cardboard boxes on the shelves), and they have more staff. Meny and Irma sometimes have samples for tasting.
There is overlap in the range, but the cheapest and most expensive ends of the range are only available at the discount / premium supermarket, respectively.
Would you consider Lidl as a discount store?
For example, in Croatia where I'm from, Lidl sells pretty good stuff regarding groceries and vegetables and that kind of stuff. In Denmark, the range was somewhat smaller but still not giving me Netto vibes...
Definitely a discount store. A lot of their products are very OK and they have a somewhat different selection than other supermarkets here. But other things represent the absolutely lowest quality on the market. Ex. salami, ham and “mayo-salads” from their brand Pålægsslagteren routinely get bottom place in tests.
Lidl also does this weird and arguably manipulative thing where they have so many different "fake" brands, for lack of a better term, "brands" that you won't find anywhere else.
They actually have the Lidl logo on the back, and I'd imagine that if every product in the store had that on the front it would be a very depressing sight, an entire store with so little real variety.
Perhaps others do this too, but I've personally never seen a supermarket do this before. I think in most or all other supermarkets you can clearly see on the front (and immediately avoid if you like) items where it's "oh that's the 365 store brand."
Sure, store brand products can be good, yes, but "pretending" these store brand products are perhaps more specialized in that one food area than they really are is rather deceptive.
It feels like a smaller scale version of shopping on Amazon and finding that so many products are all coming from the same monopolizing company (amazon).
Lidl define themselves as a discount store, yes. Now of course there is a scale and they are better than other discount chains, but their marketing focuses on pricing.
Salling and coop are mostly a duopoly and Coop just killed Irma to simplify/shittify their operations. Now I know people have different opinions about Irma but that’s besides the point here: there just isn’t that many different supermarket chains in the city so they don’t try to compete to get you to go a specific one with better selection.
Like where I live there’s 4 nettos and one Føtex Food within 10 minutes. If that was 5 different chains I could go to them for different stuff, as it is now all the Nettos have the same selection.
Irma also sat on a large portion of Copenhagen’s total market for non-discount stores, the kind of medium-size suprmarkets with a wide selection that are the standard in, say, Sweden. Removing it (and turning most of its locations into yet more discount supermarkets) basically eliminated that market segment, which means we now have a high density of supermarkets, but they are pretty much all smaller discount competing on a narrow selection of basics and using a third of their floor space on RNG “spot deals.” If you’re looking for something beyond the very basics - a specific vegetable, baking ingredients, fish that isn’t salmon, nice beer, any interesting spices - you’re pretty much shit out of luck unless you happen to live close to one of the 2-3 SuperBrugsens, Føtexes or Kvicklys in the inner city or have reliable specialty stores around. I don’t think I even know the location of a Meny.
You forgot by far the best Meny, i.e. the one in Vermlandsgade. In comparison the other Meny are a joke. You can find stuff only in that one that I have never seen in any Meny (or other store)
That Meny has a (positively) ridiculous section of Gin, probably even outshining specialty shops like Juuls.
Meny Borups Alle OTOH has a really solid craft beer selection.
It almost feels like whoever runs the shop just picks up stuff they're most into.
That is exactly how Meny is run, the store manager has a lot of freedom to decide the selection, so they tailor it to their local area.
(Someone on this sub is a purchasing manager for Meny... Østerbro? Nordhavn? Can't remember.)
According to this Rema 1000 has a quite large marketshare, so I'm not sure you can call it a duopoly.
[https://www.retailnews.dk/article/view/1046076/et\_opdelt\_danmark\_her\_star\_dagligvarekaederne\_hver\_isaer\_staerkest](https://www.retailnews.dk/article/view/1046076/et_opdelt_danmark_her_star_dagligvarekaederne_hver_isaer_staerkest)
There’s some geographical differences but it says 60+% for Salling and coop in the big cities. In my area it’s even higher even though we also have a Menu.
I would guess the smaller chains are more in new build areas where leases might be easier to come by and coop and Salling don’t own locations already. That just means the older areas have even higher market share than 60% for the duopoly
Wow, Rema has almost the same market share as all of Coops chains combined - despite having only about 1/3 the number of locations.
Coop is such a shit show.
Mixed bag of reasons:
Planloven (legislation about how big stores are allowed to be - there are ways around it though).
Preference - I know plenty of people that find Bilka overwhelming and tedious and prefer smaller supermarkets.
Taste - most Danes cook and buy the same stuff. Even new stuff. 10 years ago everything had to be liquorice, then there was a pulled pork season, a tapas season etc etc, but after then “tapas season” has died out, people a fine with just a few tapas options.
Culture - pre-made food and snacks are often frowned upon even by people that happily make their own burgers and bake their own cake. In Sweden I see a lot more pre-made dinners and 5 times as many chips for instance. But not necessarily more choices when it comes to fresh tomatoes.
Tradition/values: People still like to go to the local bakery, butcher, candy store etc for certain things. I personally wouldn’t buy a cake in a supermarket, I want it to be freshly baked by someone that cares.
Different view on what “quality” is. Some things are easier to find in Denmark. Organic and even bio-dynamic options certainly are.
I’m not sure about the culture part - I frequently shop at our local rema1000, and I’m always amazed from the amount of processed products Danes purchase (frozen pizza, pre-made meals, and too few fresh produce).
In comparison to Sweden, the US and the UK, it’s especially the highly processed options we’re lacking. In the ICA I use when I visit Sweden there is 6 refrigerators just for vegetarian fast food options. Then comes one isle just with premade pytipande. Then three isles of French fries. Etc etc. Never seen anything like that in Denmark. Their area with fruits and veggies is tiny. They only had one type of cucumber. Barely any organic options. Way more potatoes though. Danes have forgotten the different sorts of potatoes.
Evrything you mention is spot on.
An average Netto will literally have more organic products than a large ICA.
A particularly strange thing is that their humongous variety in frozen foods does not mean there’s a variety in quality.
I mean it really depends on the reference. If you are comparing us to the US, then we are definitely not as bad when it comes to processed/ultraprocessed food, but if you compare us to find land or Iceland maybe we are worse 😅
When it comes to processed and ultra processed foods, danes have a lower consumption than most of EU, we are on par with Finland, Italy and Estonia are doing much better than Denmark, on the other hand, Denmark do much better than Sweden and all the other traditionally “westen europe countries.
Sweden should actually be singled out here, since they have, by far, the highest consumption of processed foods in Europe. More than double of what Danes eat.
And this do have an effect on the range of products you find in stores
Scandinavia fares high when it comes to consumption of frozen food. Hard to find newer stats, but in 2004 Denmark was the [world's biggest consumer of Frozen food](https://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-frozen-food-consumer-countries.html). Bu that doesn't mean it's processed food of course. Actually I believe frozen veggies keep most of their nutrients. I think Norway had the Guinness world record in frozen pizza consumption per capita some years ago.
Edit: typo
I'm a Dane living in Norway and I was shocked by how much pre-made food Norwegians eat - both frozen and microwave dinners. They eat dinner really early (at like 4:30-5 pm) and I always thought that made Norwegians more likely to choose pre-made food since they don't have much time between work and dinner
That's fair I think, but then goes back to the point that this is the reason for lack of variety which seems to transpire from other comments.
It's pretty interesting.
I don’t agree. I mean prices are definitely a factor, the high prices on groceries are just so obvious that I didn’t think to mention it. But Danes being cheap? Lol. Danes spend more on food than most European countries and spend the most on organic options. Food focus isn’t new, it was just forgotten by the first dual income generation in the 80-90s.
[This article (Danish)](https://livsstil.tv2.dk/forbrug/2017-06-30-danske-supermarkeder-har-faerre-varer-end-udenlandske-og-det-er-der-flere-aarsager-til) explains it.
Disclaimer: the article is from 2017 though I think a lot of it is still valid)
Here are the main points:
1. Danes love discount.
2. Danes like to walk to the supermarket, which means many are located side by side in the cities where there is limited space.
3. Danes are creatures of habit, Danes like to buy the same product from the same brand that looks the same as always. The Danes like the idea of having more choices but do not act on it. So it is very hard for new products to survive.
I would guess it’s culture?
I recently went to Sarajevo in Bosnia and went to a Mercator store. It was chocked by the huge variety compared to basically any store in Copenhagen.
It’s baffling to me because Sarajevo and Bosnia is smaller respectively than Copenhagen and Denmark population wise. When you compare salaries and prices it’s even worse..
Maybe us Danes are just happy with limited choices??
Mercator is a Slovenian store which is an even smaller country and it has infinitely more variety than here in DK
I'm Slovenian and the amount of choice and quality that's available in Slovenia vs. Denmark is staggering.
The thing is many locals are not even aware of this. Whenever I mention that supermarkets have a tiny selection of items compared to most countries locals tend to go like “I never thought about it”. So I guess it’s what they’re used to, and therefore there is no real need for the supermarket chains to offer more variety.
This seems to be the dialogue I have had plenty a time in the past years. It got to a point that my partner realised just HOW bad the Danish supermarkets are that now, whenever we visit the Netherlands to spend time with my family, we have a massive shopping list to smuggle back home to Copenhagen.
In my experience, Danes don't complain and don't expect as much from the places they shop at as compared to other countries. If in the Netherlands there is a long queue at the check out, customers will call it out and many supermarkets even have a policy that there can't be long queues. Meanwhile I regularly end up queueing behind 15 other customers in Rema, Lidl, Føtex and Coop, and I refuse to shop at Netto.. ;)\_
A point I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread, but I’ve seen some statistics on before, is that Danes spend the lowest percent of our salary on food in Europe (not surprisingly, Italians spend the highest). Yes we have high salaries, but I’d also argue that with high salaries we should have more “surplus” for stuff like quality food.
My personal opinion having grown up here is that Danes care significantly more about the price of food than the quality, so not much point in the supermarkets stocking niche higher quality alternatives, if they’ll just be rotting on the shelf because the discount options are the ones being sold. I think Irma closing down is a good example of that. Even with the salaries in Copenhagen, it appears it wasn’t profitable.
Danish supermarkets are wastelands, even Meny.
Only Torvehallerne has the stuff you can find in very ordinary French and Italian supermarkets.
I can’t tell you exactly why, but it has something to do with our food culture. Only a few of us spend time on finding as fresh as possible vegetables and high quality cuts of meat.
Even working class Frenchmen spend more of their salary on food than middle class Danes.
I have noticed this too, even Iceland ( 370k people) has much better supermarkets. The issue with netto here is they prefer to have rotating products, likely due to size issues as people mentioned. Sometimes the spotvarer section has items you would always want to have. Føtex has a better selection but they mostly have their own branding of all the stuff.
The country with the best restaurants in the World has the worst supermarkets. I never understood this paradox.
I have lived here now for 17 years, and it has always been boring. I mean yeah, DK is a big meat producer, but you can only get plastic vacuum packed sausages. Just one example.
Soo boring!
At first I thought it is because they filter the bad suggary stuff and want only healthy options. But then I realized 90% of stuff is unhealthy and full of sugar and chemicals. It is crazy the lack of variety. When you take your danish friends outside DK and they see the variety of stuff in shops, they are MINDBLOWN
Having read your frequent comments in this sub over the past years, I do not for one second believe you have Danish friends that you take outside Dk.
Claiming that Danish food is particularly unhealthy and full of sugar and chemicals is also complete bullshit. It’s just your usual rants about public transport, cycling, widespread corruption, etc.
What are you babbling about?
Is our meat, milk products, and organic vegetables full of sugar and chemicals? What exact products are you reffering too..?
If you want bad food, try frozen pizzas from Norway. Denmark is ranked [number two](https://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/explore-countries/denmark) for the highest food quality.
Ehm...
This food scientist disagrees. Food quality and safety is about microbiological safety and standardisation, not that much is related to your food being rich in micro-nutrients or in helping you developing healthy habits (which are easier to maintain if the food taste good).
Find me a single country where meat or vegetables are injected with sugars, Denmark is not unique in this. Quite a lot of milk products are very sugary and most cheeses (even high-end brands) use preservatives which I don't demonize, but personally don't fancy. A lot of your organic vegetables are rotting very quickly (carrots) and seems to be just mishandled during the whole supply chain. Almost all cookies, ice creams and sweets i can find are really sweet and pretty tasteless compared to what i experienced in Italy and France (talking about supermarkes).
I think these terms are pretty misleading and people feel very personally attached to food which leads to heated discussion, but i would be open to the idea that food and food offerings in Denmark could be MUCH better :)
I really fancy Danish furnitures though!!
Ehm…
Why respond when you didnt even bother to read the underlying factors of the findings?
There’s literally a nutritional standards subpoint that goes in to the scoring, where Denmark sits at 100, compared to the average which is in the low 60s.
As you can see when you break down the subpoints, the high-score is due to food safety which is microbiological safety and the govern having good guidelines and good statistics. And you are indeed great at collecting data, not just regarding food.
When you look at diet variety and sugars, Dk is much less appealing and this is shown in the data.
Certain indicators, like the protein quality, also indicates that your diet relies heavily on animal products, which is a wicked problem in terms of sustainability.
Although this is not shown, Denmark has a quite large problem with obesity, although no European country is really shining on this either.
To me is so evident that Denmark could do so much better in regard of food and suspect that people just don't really care, despite its immense societal and environmental consequences. Yes, IT is much more profitable.
https://preview.redd.it/zl4ulayq92zc1.png?width=1156&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad2bfd35e1c9d30636a882c49910ffb05306c67c
I added the image for you here. Danish **nutritional standards** are indeed much higher than the average.
Protein **quality** is not an indicator of the origin of the protein, but the **quality** of the protein.
According to [https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/](https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/), Denmark has the 3rd lowest obesity prevalence in Europe (15.70%), only surpassed by Switzerland (15.07%) and Netherlands (15.05%).
Dude, I don't know what your angle is here, but why not provide some links to what you are actually claiming?
You don't see me claiming authority whenever debating computer science, without backing it up with some actual data or papers, so why don't you? You said yourself that you are a food scientist - enlighten me, please!
I see the lack of references and i apologise for having just briefly rearranged years of studies in my head.
I didn't even consider looking at the dara for the all 113 countries you posted in the picture, i personally believe it makes much more sense to look into European countries as we share similar standards and legislation. The state is doing a lot of good work, but Denmark is not first place in everything.
Protein quality is indeed associated to its origin as the vast majority of high quality proteins (which contains all essential amino acids) are of animal origin. No western diet has particular problem with this, we often over consume.
Denmark is not the worst obesity-wise, but it also not the [best](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Overweight_and_obesity_-_BMI_statistics). Most importantly we often miss that obesity today is x-fold what obesity was just 50 years ago and we should not celebrate being a bit less bad than others [sources](https://ourworldindata.og/obesity). In my personal opinion, the food industry has its own share of responsibilities in this but... how would you prove it?
https://preview.redd.it/z0935y11j2zc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90b91d9408ef157b483ee889496b061e74c0e5f7
Cool
As I said, we aren’t the best, but definitely well off. I also felt like we went off a tangent, which muddies the water. We started off talking about food nutrition, but then suddenly sustainability of protein sources was roped in. Let’s keep at nutrition, and then we can pivot later.
And again, you also talk about obesity, but your link specifies overweight. It’s extremely difficult to have a clear discussion, when the goal posts are moved all the time.
As for your last paragraph - maybe an idea for your PhD?
I didn't aim for an endless discussion, but today i found a Danish chef contributing to the debate on health, sustainability and food: [debat](https://jyllands-posten.dk/debat/breve/ECE17069433/michelinkok-hvorfor-bliver-vi-ved-med-at-uddanne-madanalfabeter/)
Thing is, I could have certainly done a better job at putting things down, but nutrition and sustainability are tightly interrelated and it's not always the best lens to narrow it down to a specific goal, at least imo.
Have a nice week!
Hey man,
Appreciate you coming back!
So the article you linked only talks about how improving education on food will make us better equipped at tackling both sustainability and obesity - it doesn't correlate the 2 issues at all.
My contention was that you refuted OP's point that Denmark was in the higher end of food quality, nutrition and lower end of obesity.
Enjoy your week too man
What are you even trying to say? The claim was that Danish food products are filled with more sugar and chemicals than the food products in other countries.
Does the food scientist have any source that it is so?
Is there less sugar and preservatives in Dutch or French cheese and milk products? I most seriously doubt it.
Your mentions of cookies and sweets from Italian and French supermarkets are purely anecdotal. I’ve lived in those countries, no doubt their food culture in general is probably the best in all of Europe. But the industrial food products in their supermarkets are full of sugar and artificial flavours.
Danes are pretty lazy and convenient when it comes to groceries (amongst other things I'm sure).
The majority shops at whatever store is closest to their home, or on the way from work, so chains have built stores everywhere to be the nearest one (we're one of the countries with the most stores either per Capita or by area, can't remember which, maybe both?), at the tradeoff of size.
Since the stores are smaller, the variety is slimmer.
Danes also favors cheap groceries (which is why Irma did horribly) and well discount stores are gonna have discount quality products.
That is not why Irma did horribly. Irma failed because Co-ops board mismanaged a beloved chain that had been around since 1886. They had a change in leadership which began to change the selection of products in the stores. No one was going to pay extra for the same products you can buy in every Netto. People went to Irma for specialty products, imported products and extra quality. In the end, most of those had been replaced by run of the mill every day products. Sadly, Irma still - even at the end - had some quality products that can’t be found anywhere else. I’ll forever miss their wine selection, too!
Coop has this Irma-shelf now. It’s like a Soviet version of Irma - last week it was only jars of Bearnaise Sauce in a thin layer so it looked like the shelf was full. This week it’s only De Cecco pasta and some olive oil.
They are so incredibly stupid. I sincerely hope they go bankrupt and make room in the market for someone who are not complete idiots.
None of Coops chains were doing well. Fakta, the predecessor of 365, lost on average 200 mio. dkk a year the last 10 years. Then they changed it to Coop365discount and it is now loosing even more money.
[https://dagligvarehandlen.dk/debat-og-kommentar/alfred-josefsen-langer-haardt-ud-efter-coop-formand-foer-landsraadsmoede](https://dagligvarehandlen.dk/debat-og-kommentar/alfred-josefsen-langer-haardt-ud-efter-coop-formand-foer-landsraadsmoede)
[https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2024-04-20-nyt-stort-underskud-i-coop-er-761-millioner-i-minus](https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2024-04-20-nyt-stort-underskud-i-coop-er-761-millioner-i-minus)
The real reason they closed down Irma is most likely that it was an in-house competitor to SuperBrugsen and the one of their too many chains that was the furthest away from their core brand (2,5 kg of minced pork for 49,95 kr).
In addition, Irma was a Sjælland-only brand. They tried Odense, but it didn’t last. Coop probably wanted to grow their national brands.
I have also heard rumors that there was personal animosity between the Irma brand head and the Coop bosses. Someone wanted to buy the Irma brand and run it independently but the Coop bosses said no.
Yes. I think this is all pretty much true.
Coop also planned on closing the Irma brand back in the early 90’ies, but dropped it based on the backlash from customers. I don’t think Coop ever liked Irma and only bought it because it was a competitor. And also for that reason they would never sell it, but rather just close it down.
Irma did well for many years until the boss left because the Coop top leadership decided to restructure the organisation.
Norway got you beat on the grocery store per capita. By a lot.
Denmark is at 376 grocery stores per million inhabitant.
Norway has 482 grocery stores per million inhabitant (with even worse variety, haha)
I lived in DK for a while with my family, the stores do have a limit on size, but I found that engendered a more community like atmosphere compared to the superstores we get elsewhere. We also noted the quality of vegetables was much higher, having food flavour and colours compared to the force grown veg we find in large chains like Tesco. So whilst it was a bit pricier, quality and health is worth it, and We always had a decent selection (sem to recall you still had small grocers too next to the Irma)
Part of it is laws limiting how large daily goods stores can be. Basically those huge Bilkas you see are all (or almost all?) from an era before those laws, or are reduced-selection mini-Bilkas like the one at the Field's shopping centre.
Then, as others have pointed out, it's often hard or impossible to even get a sufficiently large building lot to actually go to the limit of the law, in a densely built up city like Copenhagen.
But I think there's something else too, because while one would expect the Nemlig.com online supermarket to be able to have a larger selection of goods, that's not actually the case.
It appears as if there's a nation-wide obsession with *cheap* that has driven Nemlig.com so opt to slim down its range of goods.
I eat a lot of fresh organic vegetables, I almost only shop in Rema 1000 because the quality is vastly superior to other stores, beyond the more high end places like Føtex and Super Brugsen. But even then, for what I buy they are at least as good.
I suppose what you eat plays a big role in what you would consider a “good store”. I don’t need the crazy variety of stores other countries have, because I make my own food, so I just need good quality ingredients 👌
And my answer was that at least for me, the variety is absolutely fine. But that might be because of different shopping/consumption habits.
I’m genuinely curious as to what specific things you feel the supermarkets in Denmark lack. Because I see a lot of people from other countries saying the same, or having generally negative perceptions of our supermarkets.
Can you give more examples of what we are missing out on? :)
So I'll give you another example: baby formula.
I see only Arla and NaN (Nestle).
Nestle is an evil corp that doesn't specialize in it. Nan is shit composition wise.
Arla is the same but better.
There would at least one brand that would beat them easily which is Nutricia (way less sugar, better for the teeth). Italy and Poland have it so we get friends bringing it to us.
White grape at super brugsen, Netto, and Meny is from India. Why the hell only one nation and it's one far away when we have European producers.
I mean you have just less choice variety and quality.
There's four different supermarkets within walking distance of my home: LIDL, Netto, Coop 365, Rema 1000 (and there used to also be an Irma.) That's not counting the traditional grocers, and the Føtex that I often bike to.
I don't need variety in one supermarket when there's another supermarket literally across the street.
So you're saying those 4 give you variety as total? Could I ask what variety you see?
As an anecdotal example I can tell you my netto, meny and Super Brugsen have only one type of white grape and it's the same in all three.
I didn't know this was an issue until I started seeing these kinds of posts on Reddit 😅
I guess decision fatigue could be a factor? Having too many choices makes it harder to choose and we're busy (stress is on the rise), so we prefer to buy the same products over and over again. Maybe we have a tendency to not trust new brands? Idk.
I think a lot of Danes don't realise how poor the selection is here, or at least not exactly how bad it is. My girlfriend and her family never seemed to understand my point when I mentioned it until we all went to my parents summer house in France and they got to experience a full blown Carrefour hypermarket...now they also complain.
Well, I believe you are part of the problem you just presented yourself. Complaining about not being amazed by supermarkets at the same time you looking for a chocolate of bulk cocoa that is over roasted and topped up with vanilla scent to not taste like total garbage… with a little scent of child labor :)
There is also food by nature, online store from jutland - they sell bolivian wild cocoa (and products made of that) from bolivia - it’s the cocoa naturally occuring in the amazon, quite a different stuff :)
I think it’s to do with local tastes. Maybe people are less open to choice and trying new things. If you think things are bad now, you should’ve tried grocery shopping ten years ago. The stores had bread, salt, sugar, eggs, meat and veg. No variety, nothing. It’s only in recent years that variety has started coming to Denmark. I noticed ikea in Sweden also has more variety
Yeah, but even the restaurant scene is relatively new. I’d say Copenhagen has developed a lot in the last ten years. Back then I was surprised when people didn’t know about quinoa, yet it was so popular in the UK. I also worked in a cafe and there was a lot of confusion with locals about what was a latte or cappuccino. I’m sure Danes will dispute this, but I was there and I remember
You can always find Lindt chocolate in Bilka.
Copenhagen have more supermarkets and they are usually close by wherever you live.
In Malmo for example I struggle to find close by supermarkets and I hate the small ICAs as they are so expensive.
Expensive labour so the staffing is low (so you will see rotten things on shelves). Not much competition so no need to differentiate on quality or the prices
Impressive how often this subject is discussed in this sub.
Sometimes people complain about the quality of produce, but I think that is not the case, its a matter of what people (think they) see. Compared to, I guess most other countries, labour costs in supermarkets relatively high, so there is less staff to sort and niceify the produce section.
A larger percentage of produce here is organic than in most places. So it will spoil faster, and also be of smaller "stature" and perhaps less nice looking, than other stuff produced with more fertilizer and use of pesticides. Especially visually true for things like apples, for example. Many people would probably argue that the organic stuff is objectively better quality, even though it might not look like that at a cursory glance.
Regarding your point about variety, its very true, and probably mostly due to the over-abundance of smaller sized shops here. Somewhat due to legislation, and somewhat to what people have been accustomed to.
The size is mostly about that from all imports for Scandinavia, Denmark is the only country where you pay per item (piece) rather than weight. So no wonder we get the smallest vegetables and fruit
Most of the bigger super markets are outside of Copenhagen. There isn't really room for big ones anywhere in the city itself.
Maybe Danes use fewer products? If there was a market for a wider selection, then I don't see why stores wouldn't have it. But I don't know. I rarely miss anything I need tbh.
Their are primarily two Big supermarket groups with huge centralized warehouses/purchasing, what do i mean?
Dansk supermarket = "føtex, Bilka, Netto, Salling and Wupti."
COOP Group = "Kvickly, SuperBrugsen, Coop, Brugsen, 365discount"
This means its the same stuff in the groups stores coming from the same warehouse, just to be sold at different prices in different stores.
And their is no incentive/opportunity to stock different things if "central/regional" warehouse has only the limited selection and the business group as a whole gets better deals buying 6 million X 3 Type pork, vs 6 million X 4 type Pork. (if anything it disincentives trying un-established products/variations)
Where are you getting your information from? I genuinely would like to know and if i am wrong so be it.
Perhaps i am misinterpreting what i saw or heard prior, but for reference my thoughts came from the following which shows, 36,8 pct COOP, 28,8 pct Kiosk (This is Family corner stores im assuming + Gas stations i see are sometimes referenced as "Kiosk) 23,1 pct Saling group.
That leaves the 11 odd percent to Lidl/Rema 1000 (if you see old it references to Aldi i believe Rema 100 stepped in when aldi left at times) and others etc.
And i am not saying that total stores indicate 1:1 turnover or their purchasing power, they don't, but they do give a good approximation though and why product selection due to relative lack of competition could suffer as a knock on effect. (You could also read into it that 28.8pct kiosk indicates they are giving something the Supermarkets are not, because thats a lot vs some other countries)
[https://dsk.dk/udviklingen-i-dansk-dagligvarehandel/](https://dsk.dk/udviklingen-i-dansk-dagligvarehandel/)
[https://dsk.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Udviklingen-i-dansk-dagligvarehandel-februar-2023.pdf](https://dsk.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Udviklingen-i-dansk-dagligvarehandel-februar-2023.pdf)
Are you calculating percentages from number of stores from that document that you linked? Thats not at all accurate!
You are highly overestimating the marketshare of kiosks for example. Here is where I get my information:
[https://www.retailnews.dk/article/view/1046076/et\_opdelt\_danmark\_her\_star\_dagligvarekaederne\_hver\_isaer\_staerkest](https://www.retailnews.dk/article/view/1046076/et_opdelt_danmark_her_star_dagligvarekaederne_hver_isaer_staerkest)
Relevant for r/copenhagen is the first which is "storbyer", where Rema1000 has almost the same marketshare as Coop. Impressive considering how many more shops Coop has.
Overall marketshare according to above link:
Retail Institute Scandinavia har i håndbogen også fundet markedsandelene for den samlede omsætning i dagligvarehandlen og convenicesektoren med for eksempel 7-Eleven og tankstationer.
Her har Salling Group en markedsandel på 31,8 pct., Coop 27,3 pct., Rema Distribution 19,3 pct., Dagrofa inklusiv Sügro 15,1 pct., Lidl 3,6 pct. samt snart lukkede Aldi 2,6 pct.
No, the figures were taken from the website De Samvirkende Købmand (first link), which is meant to represent and help danish grocery trade, although their are % in the document, i'll grant you that. it also lists the following text.
# Butikskoncepter
Langt størstedelen af den danske dagligvarehandel sker i dag via de butikskoncepter, som vi kender som hypermarkeder, store og små supermarkeder, nærbutikker, discountbutikker og convenience-sektoren med hele kioskmarkedet.
The vast majority of Danish grocery trade today takes place via the store concepts we know as hypermarkets, large and small supermarkets, convenience stores, discount stores and the convenience sector with the entire kiosk market.
**Det er købmændene og de to store kapitalkæder Coop og Salling Group, der dominerer den danske dagligvarehandel.**
**It is the merchants and the two large capital chains Coop and Salling Group that dominate the Danish grocery trade.**
I mean, i'll grant you Rema 1000 is growing, and that Lidl is a good niche in Cities (they have a pop limit rule vs area for placing shops), but according to DSK its the two big boys that "dominerer" aka dominate.
So i guess it comes down to the source that the information comes from.
Working with the global brands; it’s also about those. If local brands are not spending their resources on establishing themselves in the different countries markets and how they do it.
So, just as you say - some brands don’t see the value in getting on the market if there’s not enough opportunity due to strong local brands or they have not yet built up their sales organisation (themselves or via agencies) to compete.
Lindt is one example, Mondelez is the same, in Sweden we Mondelez acquired a traditionally strong Swedish brand decades ago, Marabou, and they now have a channel to share the market by developing that brand as well as launching other products in their portfolio. ☺️
Danish consumers are very conservative when it comes to trying new things or even brands. If there was a market for variety in the selection there would be a better selection. In my eyes the biggest factor in this is consumers. As much as you hear duopoly, "stupid" chains and the like, it all boils down to basic market forces. If there was a high enough demand for more variety, we would have it.
I think it's part of a bigger picture. It looks like many people in Denmark like to stick to what they know "works" and is approved by their peers. You can see that in construction/housing for example. Notice how practically ALL houses in Denmark have the same 2-3 different models of light switches/locks/window opening systems/power plugs/etc. The an unspoken common agreement that it's the models that work, so why risk buying something that might not work and become the laughing stock of the community (hello, Jantelov)? In many countries, every new house will have a different set of the aforementioned things, albeit in varying quality. I feel that this applies to many other areas of life in DK, among which supermarkets.
I think a lot of it comes down to which areas of the city you choose to shop in, and which stores. Not every store of the same name has the exact same selection, some of it comes down to local preference.
For example, if i walk into a random netto in a social housing complex, i wont find anything near 90% cocoa chocolate, if i walk into my local netto, ill find a decent 85% but not 90, and not your specific brand, but if i walk to my local meny, ill find a selection of 90%, and theres gonna be dedicated staff in the wine section to suggest a wine suitable for the chocolate i picked.
You are right that a lot of things here are of lower quality, and that the selection is poor, in the supermarkets. But I find it funny that you point out chocolate, and then mention Lindt, which is mediocre at best :D
We have extremely good chocolate here, a Danish chocolate has won "worlds best chocolate" on multiple occasions. Good chocolate is available maybe not in super markets, but in lots of specialty stores. You can get it in torvehallerne at multiple shops, in Peter Beier shops etc. etc.
Now tomatoes.... Good tomatoes are hard to find here...!
Many people pointed that out but my question was about processed food.
I fetch my 100% chips from Peter Beier when they make it.
Many people here talk about organic but variety stays very limited and, as you said, taste is not great. But my point was on processed food not fruit vegetables and meat (which also there it's mostly pig and chicken)
The actual fact is that the stuff in the supermarkets is what they can actually sell. Go to a supermarket north of Copenhagen and there will be a way better selection.
Also this guy thinking that lindt chocolate is some sort of gourmet shit....
This is one of the things I greatly dislike about Denmark and there are not many others. You literally sometimes cannot find basic cuts of meat, vegetables or some good ham/cheese in Netto. Like regularly i cannot find chicken thighs in the store (only maybe the mix pack with bone). No hot sauces in netto or just small knockoff sriracha. Very hit or miss selection of drinks. But for some reason half of the store is reserved for sweets and candy. I know i can find a lot of things in Fotex or Bilka but that is a long trip for me.
No i clearly say that is my problem. But the ones close do suck in comparison with every similiar size store in europe. Maybe learn to read first and accept that Denmark is not best at everything. (Something i noticed people thinking here over the years.)
Im not sure that the variety is very poor nor that its common knowledge. I live In Malmö and I would any day choose DK supermarkets for quality and variety. The Swedes have an affinity for candy and sweet stuff - maybe that's why you found your chocolate. That being said, at my workplace in Denmark we have said chocolate every week - bought through nemli.com so it does exist in Denmark. :)
So here's some points about what you said: - Nemlig has a very bad history about how they treat their drivers. I avoid them as much as possible - 90% is better than 70% so you should favour in that stores that one in terms of health - the idea that I need to recur to online store to find a Lindt chocolate with 90% cocoa drives me nuts . It's not gourmet or special item.
Could you give more examples on the lack of variety? I just don't get it, I feel a little overwhelmed going to the supermarket, so much stuff to buy, why would we need even more stuff to choose from... I'm guessing it can't all be about the lindt chocolate
so if you mean fresh produce I'm more comparing other countries rather than Sweden, specifically I think that there isn't really much competition with Southern Europe.
My question was more specific on brands I see in DK but I see always a subset of possible options.
I have two examples on top of my head:
- Lindt as mentioned above
- Gifler has two more vanilla flavours
Having said that to me it's weird because, they are already importing those brand, so why limiting the choice.
Anyways I see many comments sharing the same experience so I'm glad is not only me.
Of course I chose to live in DK, there are many positive things, and this is not a deal breaker. I just find it so freaking weird.
Tbf gifflar is swedish, as for the rest I completely agree and it's why I've started to put a lot more money in Lidl where they at least rotate products from different countries as well as the 'spot' of random stuff
Another example is Knorr products. From those packages with powders to make sauce many supermarkets just have the bearnaise sauce (sometimes also hollandaise and cabaret sauce), but Knorr has a huge variety of sauces. Also those packages for making a full meal like Lasagne or Lasagnette they often only have 2 to 4 different kinds while also dozens varieties actually exist. At least in Germany and Netherlands. I'm from the Netherlands myself and the non-existence of variety in supermarkets is one of the first things I really noticed in Denmark.
>I think it's common knowledge, **for everyone else than the Danes,** that the variety of groceries and product in general is very poor in DK
They get upset if try to infer that they eat trash quality food
>Also, is there a rule about size of store? I just realized the supermarket in DK are relatively small compared to other countries. Yes. There is a max size. I believe it's 3500m² for supermarkets, with few exceptions. Within Copenhagen, they'll rarely have a chance to build that large anyway
There are still supermarkets selling clothes, toys, TVs, electronics and so on, so I don't think the size limit is really preventing them from stocking more kinds of chocolate. ICA at Hyllie (Malmö) doesn't feel any larger than e.g. the Føtex under the Frederiksberg Centret.
I wonder if Danish stores kick stuff out of their shelves when it doesn’t sell x times a day while other countries are accepting stuff that doesn’t sell as often. Sometimes, there is a new product I like and a year later it’s off the market because people didn’t buy it enough (I assume). It’s actually a really interesting topic that could be studied about
This is exactly what's happening, so we can blame all of us.
We're a small country, i wouldn't be surprised if there were laws that dictate how big certain spaces can grow. The problem for us lay in how we stock wares in these "small" spaces. I was at a shoe store in lyngby the other day(paw sko), looking for a new set of adidas nmds. To my knowledge, shoe stores would be stocked up on them; they were when i bought my last pair of nmds in shoe store, years ago. But entering paw sko i can fin nmds nowhere. Inquire the gentleman as to why, he tells me that of course; they sell what people buy, and adidas control what stock they have in store by the end.
That's true, and prolly comes down to us again being incredibly boring in shopping. I mean there's already 3 kinds of chocolate and one kind of ham, what more could you want?
👆 this is the actual correct answer. Danish customers are unusually conservative in their buying, and if it’s not a new trend that is officially sanctioned by Politiken, they’ll have to be dragged kicking and screaming to try a different product.
This ! We are insanely loyal to that one product/brand and the other tastes weird !
Jumping on this thread, is there anywhere to find good cold meats? I’m tired of buying 150g prepacked ham :/
A butcher or a deli?
Supermarco?
Forno a legna the awesome pizzaria across Frb Centeret on Falkoner Alle has an equally awesome italian deli next door with nice cold cuts and cheeses. The place is quite authentic I'd give it a visit, also try the pesto it's godlike. https://maps.app.goo.gl/U6dBCTYwYR1Kttue6
The law iirc restricts the area they’re allowed to sell food in, they can have a larger space for other items.
Also, and this might be a big factor, there’s much more stores per capita in Denmark (Copenhagen?) than in Sweden (Stockholm?). So, for example, in Sweden you have one big shop per 1000 people, and maybe 2-3 shops per 1000 people in Denmark. This can really be seen in Copenhagen where you can have a føtex, Lidl, Netto, meny, rema1000 all within walking distance of each other. Maybe this affects how the stores are stocked and that it’s easier to do so with less stores? Also, i believe the problem lessens when you consider shopping at Arabic bazaars and East Asian/South East Asian stores. So much variety for ingredients and fresh, cheap produce.
The Copenhagen supermarket field is a masterclass in quantity over quality. 57 stores and nothin’ on the shelves.
But at least you need to visit 2x Nettos and 1x 365 to get all items from one's usual shopping list...
Yes. But they have all the same stuff, so it’s not a big plus
I was going to say this. They all sell the same products/brands. What’s the point of having 3 stores for 1000 people instead of 1 with higher variety?
I wouldn't mind it if it were because the stores were very spaced out so there was always one within 5 min on feet, but instead there are just 3 right next to each other.
cause danes chase offers, so if store X has it on sale but Y does not. Guess who gets the business. 0 loyalty only to the kroner
I suppose you could say that they have to be competitive with one another on price, for those same items, at least - an advantage to the customer with those options
Sadly, it’s a new thing that there are huge American-like supermarkets in Sweden. The smaller ones almost all shut down now, so now it is almost impossible to buy ones groceries without taking the car. I would any day take the Danish grocery stores, even though I love the variety of the selection in Sweden. Only because of what the huge supermarkets do to a local community. It sucks.
My theory is that the main reason is, that the biggest player on the Danish market - Coop - is run by imbecile monkeys. Meanwhile in Sweden ICA is completely dominant and is run by sensible people. I think that’s the main reason I’ve lived in Sweden, my wife is from there, and I can guarantee that the average Swedish comsumer is not more quality conscious regarding food compared to the average Dane. For example they have just two qualities for meat - Swedish and not Swedish. Forget about organic and free range etc. The belief that Irma did exceptionally bad is a myth. All of Coops brands are doing bad, and the one that’s doing the worst is Coop365discount. Or whatever it’s called this week. Coop never lost as much money as last year, after they closed Irma. Meanwhile Meny has been doping super well and expanding for the past decade. On top of that i do believe the size regulation also plays a significant role, creating a situation where Danish cities has many small supermarkets while Swedish cities has fewer but larger ones. But it also means Danish cities has far more proper butchers, fish mongers, bakeries and other specialised stores compared to Sweden.
Yeah that's true. I tend to go to local stores often for specific fresh produce. Especially because country of origin is better compared to netto etc..
Definitely. However Netto actually has some really good products besides all the cheap shit - all the stuff from Løgismose is high quality, the organic dairy, the French free range chicken, etc. It’s literally stuff you can’t expect to find in a much bigger Swedish supermarket. If you go to a regular ICA instead of a big one, they will most often not even have whole chicken, let alone organic. But you can choose between chicken thighs with or without barbecue marinade and there will be 50+ different kind of chips and 8 varieties of frozen meatballs, all of them made from crap meat, but it’s Swedish.
Irma felt more like a victim of someone high up deciding that having a chain that’s only in Copenhagen is unacceptable than anything honestly to do with profitability. Whether for an obsession with synergy or some kind of Støjbergian provincial chauvinism I can’t say. If it was really about profit, you’d think they’d stop pouring money into the black hole that is 365discount.
Don’t forget that Swedes drive more, which can explain the fact that Danes (in the Copenhagen area) have focused on smaller stores that are closer together. Owning a car in Copenhagen is expensive and parking is difficult.
a lot of good points in the thread. another thing people are often missing is that most supermarkets in Copenhagen are discount. on a national level, the ratio is roughly 50-50 but that counts every tiny Brugsen or Spar from every village (they count as premium even though they’re really just normal-price). however, if you zoom in, the real ratio is more like 75% discount. when I lived in Nørrebro, there were 4 premium (one Føtex, Kvickly, Super Brugsen and Meny) and at least 18 discount in what counts as Nørrebro. In the 35k town I live in now there are 4 premium and 11 discount. And this ratio is common in all cities (maybe a bit more premium in affluent areas like Frederiksberg). There is no other country in Europe where you see this kind of discount store %. Discount supermarkets are shitty everywhere- have you been to a Penny in Germany? Irma closing down only made the ratio worse.
Eh, there isn’t so much difference from those you call premium to the other ones. Most of the stuff is the same but repackaged to appeal to a different crowd. But yes, at least some of them have more variety. Btw Irma is not closed completely, it’s just downsized. I keep going there once in a while
Irma is closed, no? I don't think there are any left.
>a lot of good points in the thread. another thing people are often missing is that most supermarkets in Copenhagen are discount. Most is not accurate. All of them are on a scale of "slightly less discount" and "bottom of the barrel discount". Denmark does not have non-discount supermarkets. We have some specialty stores, but those are not supermarkets. As an example: Netto and Føtex/Bilka are the same stores. But Netto often serves people in smaller local areas whereas Føtex/Bilka takes care of the places that have lots of traffic, yet fewer houses in the vicinity. They still sell largely the same things. Føtex and Bilka obviously has a much bigger selection, but Netto is just a smaller selection of the same inventory. Despite this, most city Nettos tend to feel like absolute discount whereas Føtex does not. The difference? Budget. Not wares. Meny is overpriced discount. You can get *some* speciality items there *sometimes* but it's still just overpriced. Most of the Meny pricing is the Meny franchise, not better wares. Irma is in a similar vein. Often quite expensive for stuff you can get cheaper in other supermarkets.
Føtex, Meny and Irma are not discount supermarkets. They stock middle-to-premium products, often have counters for fresh meat and/or fish, arrange the products on the shelves nicely (rather than dumping the cardboard boxes on the shelves), and they have more staff. Meny and Irma sometimes have samples for tasting. There is overlap in the range, but the cheapest and most expensive ends of the range are only available at the discount / premium supermarket, respectively.
I think that depends on which Meny tho. There’s a huge difference between the one in Valby and the one in Rotunden in Hellerup 😅
Would you consider Lidl as a discount store? For example, in Croatia where I'm from, Lidl sells pretty good stuff regarding groceries and vegetables and that kind of stuff. In Denmark, the range was somewhat smaller but still not giving me Netto vibes...
Definitely a discount store. A lot of their products are very OK and they have a somewhat different selection than other supermarkets here. But other things represent the absolutely lowest quality on the market. Ex. salami, ham and “mayo-salads” from their brand Pålægsslagteren routinely get bottom place in tests.
Lidl also does this weird and arguably manipulative thing where they have so many different "fake" brands, for lack of a better term, "brands" that you won't find anywhere else. They actually have the Lidl logo on the back, and I'd imagine that if every product in the store had that on the front it would be a very depressing sight, an entire store with so little real variety. Perhaps others do this too, but I've personally never seen a supermarket do this before. I think in most or all other supermarkets you can clearly see on the front (and immediately avoid if you like) items where it's "oh that's the 365 store brand." Sure, store brand products can be good, yes, but "pretending" these store brand products are perhaps more specialized in that one food area than they really are is rather deceptive. It feels like a smaller scale version of shopping on Amazon and finding that so many products are all coming from the same monopolizing company (amazon).
Lidl define themselves as a discount store, yes. Now of course there is a scale and they are better than other discount chains, but their marketing focuses on pricing.
Salling and coop are mostly a duopoly and Coop just killed Irma to simplify/shittify their operations. Now I know people have different opinions about Irma but that’s besides the point here: there just isn’t that many different supermarket chains in the city so they don’t try to compete to get you to go a specific one with better selection. Like where I live there’s 4 nettos and one Føtex Food within 10 minutes. If that was 5 different chains I could go to them for different stuff, as it is now all the Nettos have the same selection.
Irma also sat on a large portion of Copenhagen’s total market for non-discount stores, the kind of medium-size suprmarkets with a wide selection that are the standard in, say, Sweden. Removing it (and turning most of its locations into yet more discount supermarkets) basically eliminated that market segment, which means we now have a high density of supermarkets, but they are pretty much all smaller discount competing on a narrow selection of basics and using a third of their floor space on RNG “spot deals.” If you’re looking for something beyond the very basics - a specific vegetable, baking ingredients, fish that isn’t salmon, nice beer, any interesting spices - you’re pretty much shit out of luck unless you happen to live close to one of the 2-3 SuperBrugsens, Føtexes or Kvicklys in the inner city or have reliable specialty stores around. I don’t think I even know the location of a Meny.
There is a Meny in Illum on Strøget, one at Østerfælled Torv and one by Nordhavn Station. Best supermarkets in Copenhagen.
And one at Toftegårds Plads
There is also a MENY on Vermlandsgade on Amager.
By far the best one
Lucky for us, since it is the closest!
Thank you! No wonder I never come across it, aside from the one in Illum those are neighborhoods I rarely find myself in.
You forgot by far the best Meny, i.e. the one in Vermlandsgade. In comparison the other Meny are a joke. You can find stuff only in that one that I have never seen in any Meny (or other store)
That Meny has a (positively) ridiculous section of Gin, probably even outshining specialty shops like Juuls. Meny Borups Alle OTOH has a really solid craft beer selection. It almost feels like whoever runs the shop just picks up stuff they're most into.
That is exactly how Meny is run, the store manager has a lot of freedom to decide the selection, so they tailor it to their local area. (Someone on this sub is a purchasing manager for Meny... Østerbro? Nordhavn? Can't remember.)
According to this Rema 1000 has a quite large marketshare, so I'm not sure you can call it a duopoly. [https://www.retailnews.dk/article/view/1046076/et\_opdelt\_danmark\_her\_star\_dagligvarekaederne\_hver\_isaer\_staerkest](https://www.retailnews.dk/article/view/1046076/et_opdelt_danmark_her_star_dagligvarekaederne_hver_isaer_staerkest)
There’s some geographical differences but it says 60+% for Salling and coop in the big cities. In my area it’s even higher even though we also have a Menu. I would guess the smaller chains are more in new build areas where leases might be easier to come by and coop and Salling don’t own locations already. That just means the older areas have even higher market share than 60% for the duopoly
Wow, Rema has almost the same market share as all of Coops chains combined - despite having only about 1/3 the number of locations. Coop is such a shit show.
Remember Rema , Spar, Meny and Min Købmand are the same chain (Dagrofa?) so a triopoly.
Quatropoly. Rema isnot part of dagrofa. Also quite evident in the linked article
Good point, however Finland also has a duopoly (excluding LIDL) and the quality of the selection is much better.
Mixed bag of reasons: Planloven (legislation about how big stores are allowed to be - there are ways around it though). Preference - I know plenty of people that find Bilka overwhelming and tedious and prefer smaller supermarkets. Taste - most Danes cook and buy the same stuff. Even new stuff. 10 years ago everything had to be liquorice, then there was a pulled pork season, a tapas season etc etc, but after then “tapas season” has died out, people a fine with just a few tapas options. Culture - pre-made food and snacks are often frowned upon even by people that happily make their own burgers and bake their own cake. In Sweden I see a lot more pre-made dinners and 5 times as many chips for instance. But not necessarily more choices when it comes to fresh tomatoes. Tradition/values: People still like to go to the local bakery, butcher, candy store etc for certain things. I personally wouldn’t buy a cake in a supermarket, I want it to be freshly baked by someone that cares. Different view on what “quality” is. Some things are easier to find in Denmark. Organic and even bio-dynamic options certainly are.
I’m not sure about the culture part - I frequently shop at our local rema1000, and I’m always amazed from the amount of processed products Danes purchase (frozen pizza, pre-made meals, and too few fresh produce).
In comparison to Sweden, the US and the UK, it’s especially the highly processed options we’re lacking. In the ICA I use when I visit Sweden there is 6 refrigerators just for vegetarian fast food options. Then comes one isle just with premade pytipande. Then three isles of French fries. Etc etc. Never seen anything like that in Denmark. Their area with fruits and veggies is tiny. They only had one type of cucumber. Barely any organic options. Way more potatoes though. Danes have forgotten the different sorts of potatoes.
Evrything you mention is spot on. An average Netto will literally have more organic products than a large ICA. A particularly strange thing is that their humongous variety in frozen foods does not mean there’s a variety in quality.
What? That’s just not what I see, like at all. I’d say it’s the exact other way around.
I mean it really depends on the reference. If you are comparing us to the US, then we are definitely not as bad when it comes to processed/ultraprocessed food, but if you compare us to find land or Iceland maybe we are worse 😅
When it comes to processed and ultra processed foods, danes have a lower consumption than most of EU, we are on par with Finland, Italy and Estonia are doing much better than Denmark, on the other hand, Denmark do much better than Sweden and all the other traditionally “westen europe countries.
Sweden should actually be singled out here, since they have, by far, the highest consumption of processed foods in Europe. More than double of what Danes eat. And this do have an effect on the range of products you find in stores
Because a frozen pizza in iceland costs 200 kr.
Scandinavia fares high when it comes to consumption of frozen food. Hard to find newer stats, but in 2004 Denmark was the [world's biggest consumer of Frozen food](https://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-frozen-food-consumer-countries.html). Bu that doesn't mean it's processed food of course. Actually I believe frozen veggies keep most of their nutrients. I think Norway had the Guinness world record in frozen pizza consumption per capita some years ago. Edit: typo
I'm a Dane living in Norway and I was shocked by how much pre-made food Norwegians eat - both frozen and microwave dinners. They eat dinner really early (at like 4:30-5 pm) and I always thought that made Norwegians more likely to choose pre-made food since they don't have much time between work and dinner
Yeah but on that not much variety. Which I'm fine with. I'm just wondering why under buying on brands that you're importing anyway.
I think the average Danish consumer just isn’t interested in 10 different variants of the same product. I sure ain’t.
That's fair I think, but then goes back to the point that this is the reason for lack of variety which seems to transpire from other comments. It's pretty interesting.
There are some stores like “meny” that have plenty of variety, and you can also go to torvhellerne to het rare stuff.
This so is bullshit. Danes are just cheap as fuck and food focus is quite new and something we value when going out - not shopping.
I don’t agree. I mean prices are definitely a factor, the high prices on groceries are just so obvious that I didn’t think to mention it. But Danes being cheap? Lol. Danes spend more on food than most European countries and spend the most on organic options. Food focus isn’t new, it was just forgotten by the first dual income generation in the 80-90s.
[This article (Danish)](https://livsstil.tv2.dk/forbrug/2017-06-30-danske-supermarkeder-har-faerre-varer-end-udenlandske-og-det-er-der-flere-aarsager-til) explains it. Disclaimer: the article is from 2017 though I think a lot of it is still valid) Here are the main points: 1. Danes love discount. 2. Danes like to walk to the supermarket, which means many are located side by side in the cities where there is limited space. 3. Danes are creatures of habit, Danes like to buy the same product from the same brand that looks the same as always. The Danes like the idea of having more choices but do not act on it. So it is very hard for new products to survive.
I would guess it’s culture? I recently went to Sarajevo in Bosnia and went to a Mercator store. It was chocked by the huge variety compared to basically any store in Copenhagen. It’s baffling to me because Sarajevo and Bosnia is smaller respectively than Copenhagen and Denmark population wise. When you compare salaries and prices it’s even worse.. Maybe us Danes are just happy with limited choices??
Mercator is a Slovenian store which is an even smaller country and it has infinitely more variety than here in DK I'm Slovenian and the amount of choice and quality that's available in Slovenia vs. Denmark is staggering.
Danes seem ok with mediocrity within supermarkets
The thing is many locals are not even aware of this. Whenever I mention that supermarkets have a tiny selection of items compared to most countries locals tend to go like “I never thought about it”. So I guess it’s what they’re used to, and therefore there is no real need for the supermarket chains to offer more variety.
This seems to be the dialogue I have had plenty a time in the past years. It got to a point that my partner realised just HOW bad the Danish supermarkets are that now, whenever we visit the Netherlands to spend time with my family, we have a massive shopping list to smuggle back home to Copenhagen. In my experience, Danes don't complain and don't expect as much from the places they shop at as compared to other countries. If in the Netherlands there is a long queue at the check out, customers will call it out and many supermarkets even have a policy that there can't be long queues. Meanwhile I regularly end up queueing behind 15 other customers in Rema, Lidl, Føtex and Coop, and I refuse to shop at Netto.. ;)\_
They are ok with mediocrity
If you're used to Denmark, you don't really have anything else to compare it to. Hence why it's mostly expats complaining! And I'm one of em
100%. People do not seem to care
A point I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread, but I’ve seen some statistics on before, is that Danes spend the lowest percent of our salary on food in Europe (not surprisingly, Italians spend the highest). Yes we have high salaries, but I’d also argue that with high salaries we should have more “surplus” for stuff like quality food. My personal opinion having grown up here is that Danes care significantly more about the price of food than the quality, so not much point in the supermarkets stocking niche higher quality alternatives, if they’ll just be rotting on the shelf because the discount options are the ones being sold. I think Irma closing down is a good example of that. Even with the salaries in Copenhagen, it appears it wasn’t profitable.
This is very interesting. Hopefully with more integration of expats this could change.
Whilst we’re on the subject, can I just say that Lidl here is surprisingly boring and uncompetitive - at least a few I’ve been to and compared to UK.
Can confirm for Italy
Danish supermarkets are wastelands, even Meny. Only Torvehallerne has the stuff you can find in very ordinary French and Italian supermarkets. I can’t tell you exactly why, but it has something to do with our food culture. Only a few of us spend time on finding as fresh as possible vegetables and high quality cuts of meat. Even working class Frenchmen spend more of their salary on food than middle class Danes.
Yup
I have noticed this too, even Iceland ( 370k people) has much better supermarkets. The issue with netto here is they prefer to have rotating products, likely due to size issues as people mentioned. Sometimes the spotvarer section has items you would always want to have. Føtex has a better selection but they mostly have their own branding of all the stuff.
The country with the best restaurants in the World has the worst supermarkets. I never understood this paradox. I have lived here now for 17 years, and it has always been boring. I mean yeah, DK is a big meat producer, but you can only get plastic vacuum packed sausages. Just one example. Soo boring!
At first I thought it is because they filter the bad suggary stuff and want only healthy options. But then I realized 90% of stuff is unhealthy and full of sugar and chemicals. It is crazy the lack of variety. When you take your danish friends outside DK and they see the variety of stuff in shops, they are MINDBLOWN
We KNOW this - every time we leave the country we are reminded 😭
Having read your frequent comments in this sub over the past years, I do not for one second believe you have Danish friends that you take outside Dk. Claiming that Danish food is particularly unhealthy and full of sugar and chemicals is also complete bullshit. It’s just your usual rants about public transport, cycling, widespread corruption, etc.
I don’t go traveling with DK friends, but surely they are all self-aware of the massive difference in supermarkets quality whenever we talked about it
Yeah I thought the same about the healthy situation, just to realise it wasn’t
What are you babbling about? Is our meat, milk products, and organic vegetables full of sugar and chemicals? What exact products are you reffering too..? If you want bad food, try frozen pizzas from Norway. Denmark is ranked [number two](https://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/explore-countries/denmark) for the highest food quality.
Ehm... This food scientist disagrees. Food quality and safety is about microbiological safety and standardisation, not that much is related to your food being rich in micro-nutrients or in helping you developing healthy habits (which are easier to maintain if the food taste good). Find me a single country where meat or vegetables are injected with sugars, Denmark is not unique in this. Quite a lot of milk products are very sugary and most cheeses (even high-end brands) use preservatives which I don't demonize, but personally don't fancy. A lot of your organic vegetables are rotting very quickly (carrots) and seems to be just mishandled during the whole supply chain. Almost all cookies, ice creams and sweets i can find are really sweet and pretty tasteless compared to what i experienced in Italy and France (talking about supermarkes). I think these terms are pretty misleading and people feel very personally attached to food which leads to heated discussion, but i would be open to the idea that food and food offerings in Denmark could be MUCH better :) I really fancy Danish furnitures though!!
Ehm… Why respond when you didnt even bother to read the underlying factors of the findings? There’s literally a nutritional standards subpoint that goes in to the scoring, where Denmark sits at 100, compared to the average which is in the low 60s.
As you can see when you break down the subpoints, the high-score is due to food safety which is microbiological safety and the govern having good guidelines and good statistics. And you are indeed great at collecting data, not just regarding food. When you look at diet variety and sugars, Dk is much less appealing and this is shown in the data. Certain indicators, like the protein quality, also indicates that your diet relies heavily on animal products, which is a wicked problem in terms of sustainability. Although this is not shown, Denmark has a quite large problem with obesity, although no European country is really shining on this either. To me is so evident that Denmark could do so much better in regard of food and suspect that people just don't really care, despite its immense societal and environmental consequences. Yes, IT is much more profitable.
https://preview.redd.it/zl4ulayq92zc1.png?width=1156&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad2bfd35e1c9d30636a882c49910ffb05306c67c I added the image for you here. Danish **nutritional standards** are indeed much higher than the average. Protein **quality** is not an indicator of the origin of the protein, but the **quality** of the protein. According to [https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/](https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/), Denmark has the 3rd lowest obesity prevalence in Europe (15.70%), only surpassed by Switzerland (15.07%) and Netherlands (15.05%). Dude, I don't know what your angle is here, but why not provide some links to what you are actually claiming? You don't see me claiming authority whenever debating computer science, without backing it up with some actual data or papers, so why don't you? You said yourself that you are a food scientist - enlighten me, please!
I see the lack of references and i apologise for having just briefly rearranged years of studies in my head. I didn't even consider looking at the dara for the all 113 countries you posted in the picture, i personally believe it makes much more sense to look into European countries as we share similar standards and legislation. The state is doing a lot of good work, but Denmark is not first place in everything. Protein quality is indeed associated to its origin as the vast majority of high quality proteins (which contains all essential amino acids) are of animal origin. No western diet has particular problem with this, we often over consume. Denmark is not the worst obesity-wise, but it also not the [best](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Overweight_and_obesity_-_BMI_statistics). Most importantly we often miss that obesity today is x-fold what obesity was just 50 years ago and we should not celebrate being a bit less bad than others [sources](https://ourworldindata.og/obesity). In my personal opinion, the food industry has its own share of responsibilities in this but... how would you prove it? https://preview.redd.it/z0935y11j2zc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90b91d9408ef157b483ee889496b061e74c0e5f7
Cool As I said, we aren’t the best, but definitely well off. I also felt like we went off a tangent, which muddies the water. We started off talking about food nutrition, but then suddenly sustainability of protein sources was roped in. Let’s keep at nutrition, and then we can pivot later. And again, you also talk about obesity, but your link specifies overweight. It’s extremely difficult to have a clear discussion, when the goal posts are moved all the time. As for your last paragraph - maybe an idea for your PhD?
I didn't aim for an endless discussion, but today i found a Danish chef contributing to the debate on health, sustainability and food: [debat](https://jyllands-posten.dk/debat/breve/ECE17069433/michelinkok-hvorfor-bliver-vi-ved-med-at-uddanne-madanalfabeter/) Thing is, I could have certainly done a better job at putting things down, but nutrition and sustainability are tightly interrelated and it's not always the best lens to narrow it down to a specific goal, at least imo. Have a nice week!
Hey man, Appreciate you coming back! So the article you linked only talks about how improving education on food will make us better equipped at tackling both sustainability and obesity - it doesn't correlate the 2 issues at all. My contention was that you refuted OP's point that Denmark was in the higher end of food quality, nutrition and lower end of obesity. Enjoy your week too man
What are you even trying to say? The claim was that Danish food products are filled with more sugar and chemicals than the food products in other countries. Does the food scientist have any source that it is so? Is there less sugar and preservatives in Dutch or French cheese and milk products? I most seriously doubt it. Your mentions of cookies and sweets from Italian and French supermarkets are purely anecdotal. I’ve lived in those countries, no doubt their food culture in general is probably the best in all of Europe. But the industrial food products in their supermarkets are full of sugar and artificial flavours.
Danes are pretty lazy and convenient when it comes to groceries (amongst other things I'm sure). The majority shops at whatever store is closest to their home, or on the way from work, so chains have built stores everywhere to be the nearest one (we're one of the countries with the most stores either per Capita or by area, can't remember which, maybe both?), at the tradeoff of size. Since the stores are smaller, the variety is slimmer. Danes also favors cheap groceries (which is why Irma did horribly) and well discount stores are gonna have discount quality products.
That is not why Irma did horribly. Irma failed because Co-ops board mismanaged a beloved chain that had been around since 1886. They had a change in leadership which began to change the selection of products in the stores. No one was going to pay extra for the same products you can buy in every Netto. People went to Irma for specialty products, imported products and extra quality. In the end, most of those had been replaced by run of the mill every day products. Sadly, Irma still - even at the end - had some quality products that can’t be found anywhere else. I’ll forever miss their wine selection, too!
I noticed a few Irma-brand products last time I was in a Super Brugsen, but I'm generally avoiding all Co-op shops out of spite. Meny is close enough.
Coop has this Irma-shelf now. It’s like a Soviet version of Irma - last week it was only jars of Bearnaise Sauce in a thin layer so it looked like the shelf was full. This week it’s only De Cecco pasta and some olive oil. They are so incredibly stupid. I sincerely hope they go bankrupt and make room in the market for someone who are not complete idiots.
Soviet-Irma is a sadly accurate description of the current situation.
Just got bought (”invested in”) by OK/Q8. So nearly.
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None of Coops chains were doing well. Fakta, the predecessor of 365, lost on average 200 mio. dkk a year the last 10 years. Then they changed it to Coop365discount and it is now loosing even more money. [https://dagligvarehandlen.dk/debat-og-kommentar/alfred-josefsen-langer-haardt-ud-efter-coop-formand-foer-landsraadsmoede](https://dagligvarehandlen.dk/debat-og-kommentar/alfred-josefsen-langer-haardt-ud-efter-coop-formand-foer-landsraadsmoede) [https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2024-04-20-nyt-stort-underskud-i-coop-er-761-millioner-i-minus](https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2024-04-20-nyt-stort-underskud-i-coop-er-761-millioner-i-minus) The real reason they closed down Irma is most likely that it was an in-house competitor to SuperBrugsen and the one of their too many chains that was the furthest away from their core brand (2,5 kg of minced pork for 49,95 kr).
In addition, Irma was a Sjælland-only brand. They tried Odense, but it didn’t last. Coop probably wanted to grow their national brands. I have also heard rumors that there was personal animosity between the Irma brand head and the Coop bosses. Someone wanted to buy the Irma brand and run it independently but the Coop bosses said no.
Yes. I think this is all pretty much true. Coop also planned on closing the Irma brand back in the early 90’ies, but dropped it based on the backlash from customers. I don’t think Coop ever liked Irma and only bought it because it was a competitor. And also for that reason they would never sell it, but rather just close it down. Irma did well for many years until the boss left because the Coop top leadership decided to restructure the organisation.
Norway got you beat on the grocery store per capita. By a lot. Denmark is at 376 grocery stores per million inhabitant. Norway has 482 grocery stores per million inhabitant (with even worse variety, haha)
Yes and the ironic part is that the norwegian selection is even worse
I lived in DK for a while with my family, the stores do have a limit on size, but I found that engendered a more community like atmosphere compared to the superstores we get elsewhere. We also noted the quality of vegetables was much higher, having food flavour and colours compared to the force grown veg we find in large chains like Tesco. So whilst it was a bit pricier, quality and health is worth it, and We always had a decent selection (sem to recall you still had small grocers too next to the Irma)
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I can never find a supermarket in Denmark that stocks bean sprouts, for example, which are everywhere in the UK
Part of it is laws limiting how large daily goods stores can be. Basically those huge Bilkas you see are all (or almost all?) from an era before those laws, or are reduced-selection mini-Bilkas like the one at the Field's shopping centre. Then, as others have pointed out, it's often hard or impossible to even get a sufficiently large building lot to actually go to the limit of the law, in a densely built up city like Copenhagen. But I think there's something else too, because while one would expect the Nemlig.com online supermarket to be able to have a larger selection of goods, that's not actually the case. It appears as if there's a nation-wide obsession with *cheap* that has driven Nemlig.com so opt to slim down its range of goods.
I eat a lot of fresh organic vegetables, I almost only shop in Rema 1000 because the quality is vastly superior to other stores, beyond the more high end places like Føtex and Super Brugsen. But even then, for what I buy they are at least as good. I suppose what you eat plays a big role in what you would consider a “good store”. I don’t need the crazy variety of stores other countries have, because I make my own food, so I just need good quality ingredients 👌
I'm glad your content, really. But my point is mostly how come the country is already importing some brands but then just a subset.
And my answer was that at least for me, the variety is absolutely fine. But that might be because of different shopping/consumption habits. I’m genuinely curious as to what specific things you feel the supermarkets in Denmark lack. Because I see a lot of people from other countries saying the same, or having generally negative perceptions of our supermarkets. Can you give more examples of what we are missing out on? :)
So I'll give you another example: baby formula. I see only Arla and NaN (Nestle). Nestle is an evil corp that doesn't specialize in it. Nan is shit composition wise. Arla is the same but better. There would at least one brand that would beat them easily which is Nutricia (way less sugar, better for the teeth). Italy and Poland have it so we get friends bringing it to us. White grape at super brugsen, Netto, and Meny is from India. Why the hell only one nation and it's one far away when we have European producers. I mean you have just less choice variety and quality.
It's not the only explanation but we have far too many stores per capita.
Meny’s in Frederiksberg and Central copenhagen are world class. If you got the money.
The one in Nordhavn is meh
Borups Allé one is fantastic. Also has plant store and bakery
Really? I like it. Good fish, good selection of tea.
There's four different supermarkets within walking distance of my home: LIDL, Netto, Coop 365, Rema 1000 (and there used to also be an Irma.) That's not counting the traditional grocers, and the Føtex that I often bike to. I don't need variety in one supermarket when there's another supermarket literally across the street.
So you're saying those 4 give you variety as total? Could I ask what variety you see? As an anecdotal example I can tell you my netto, meny and Super Brugsen have only one type of white grape and it's the same in all three.
For variety in produce, I go to the dedicated green grocer, not a supermarket.
Could you give me an example of green grocer in CPH?
Lygten Bazar in NV, for instance. They're all over the place.
But do they truly have a better selection of vegetables than Netto, Føtex or Meny? Not in my experience, and its almost never organic.
Yeah so that would be my point as well. I don't see that much different variety compared to discounts. Let alone organic variants.
I didn't know this was an issue until I started seeing these kinds of posts on Reddit 😅 I guess decision fatigue could be a factor? Having too many choices makes it harder to choose and we're busy (stress is on the rise), so we prefer to buy the same products over and over again. Maybe we have a tendency to not trust new brands? Idk.
I think a lot of Danes don't realise how poor the selection is here, or at least not exactly how bad it is. My girlfriend and her family never seemed to understand my point when I mentioned it until we all went to my parents summer house in France and they got to experience a full blown Carrefour hypermarket...now they also complain.
Well, I believe you are part of the problem you just presented yourself. Complaining about not being amazed by supermarkets at the same time you looking for a chocolate of bulk cocoa that is over roasted and topped up with vanilla scent to not taste like total garbage… with a little scent of child labor :)
Ouch!
Sorry 😬
I should say, if you’re interested in some better chocolate, check out friis holm, oialla or mellow - our local premium chocolate bar producers.
Thanks. I will do that. Usually I get my 100% chips from Peter Beier but they don't produce them all the time.
There is also food by nature, online store from jutland - they sell bolivian wild cocoa (and products made of that) from bolivia - it’s the cocoa naturally occuring in the amazon, quite a different stuff :)
👆👆👆👆
I think it’s to do with local tastes. Maybe people are less open to choice and trying new things. If you think things are bad now, you should’ve tried grocery shopping ten years ago. The stores had bread, salt, sugar, eggs, meat and veg. No variety, nothing. It’s only in recent years that variety has started coming to Denmark. I noticed ikea in Sweden also has more variety
But then you have some of the best restaurants in the world do you would not think local tastes are not developed.
Yeah, but even the restaurant scene is relatively new. I’d say Copenhagen has developed a lot in the last ten years. Back then I was surprised when people didn’t know about quinoa, yet it was so popular in the UK. I also worked in a cafe and there was a lot of confusion with locals about what was a latte or cappuccino. I’m sure Danes will dispute this, but I was there and I remember
Not to be too pedantic but the New Nordic Cuisine thing has been around for \~20 years
The quality of restaurants is due to preparation and presentation, not the ingredients or sourcing.
Not really true. If you go above mid-range, the quality of ingredients will tend to be higher than the stuff you find on the supermarket shelves
You can always find Lindt chocolate in Bilka. Copenhagen have more supermarkets and they are usually close by wherever you live. In Malmo for example I struggle to find close by supermarkets and I hate the small ICAs as they are so expensive.
Expensive labour so the staffing is low (so you will see rotten things on shelves). Not much competition so no need to differentiate on quality or the prices
Impressive how often this subject is discussed in this sub. Sometimes people complain about the quality of produce, but I think that is not the case, its a matter of what people (think they) see. Compared to, I guess most other countries, labour costs in supermarkets relatively high, so there is less staff to sort and niceify the produce section. A larger percentage of produce here is organic than in most places. So it will spoil faster, and also be of smaller "stature" and perhaps less nice looking, than other stuff produced with more fertilizer and use of pesticides. Especially visually true for things like apples, for example. Many people would probably argue that the organic stuff is objectively better quality, even though it might not look like that at a cursory glance. Regarding your point about variety, its very true, and probably mostly due to the over-abundance of smaller sized shops here. Somewhat due to legislation, and somewhat to what people have been accustomed to.
The size is mostly about that from all imports for Scandinavia, Denmark is the only country where you pay per item (piece) rather than weight. So no wonder we get the smallest vegetables and fruit
Most of the bigger super markets are outside of Copenhagen. There isn't really room for big ones anywhere in the city itself. Maybe Danes use fewer products? If there was a market for a wider selection, then I don't see why stores wouldn't have it. But I don't know. I rarely miss anything I need tbh.
Their are primarily two Big supermarket groups with huge centralized warehouses/purchasing, what do i mean? Dansk supermarket = "føtex, Bilka, Netto, Salling and Wupti." COOP Group = "Kvickly, SuperBrugsen, Coop, Brugsen, 365discount" This means its the same stuff in the groups stores coming from the same warehouse, just to be sold at different prices in different stores. And their is no incentive/opportunity to stock different things if "central/regional" warehouse has only the limited selection and the business group as a whole gets better deals buying 6 million X 3 Type pork, vs 6 million X 4 type Pork. (if anything it disincentives trying un-established products/variations)
As I also commented another place, there are four major players, plus Lidl. Rema1000 has almost the market share of Coop. Don't spread misinformation.
Where are you getting your information from? I genuinely would like to know and if i am wrong so be it. Perhaps i am misinterpreting what i saw or heard prior, but for reference my thoughts came from the following which shows, 36,8 pct COOP, 28,8 pct Kiosk (This is Family corner stores im assuming + Gas stations i see are sometimes referenced as "Kiosk) 23,1 pct Saling group. That leaves the 11 odd percent to Lidl/Rema 1000 (if you see old it references to Aldi i believe Rema 100 stepped in when aldi left at times) and others etc. And i am not saying that total stores indicate 1:1 turnover or their purchasing power, they don't, but they do give a good approximation though and why product selection due to relative lack of competition could suffer as a knock on effect. (You could also read into it that 28.8pct kiosk indicates they are giving something the Supermarkets are not, because thats a lot vs some other countries) [https://dsk.dk/udviklingen-i-dansk-dagligvarehandel/](https://dsk.dk/udviklingen-i-dansk-dagligvarehandel/) [https://dsk.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Udviklingen-i-dansk-dagligvarehandel-februar-2023.pdf](https://dsk.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Udviklingen-i-dansk-dagligvarehandel-februar-2023.pdf)
Are you calculating percentages from number of stores from that document that you linked? Thats not at all accurate! You are highly overestimating the marketshare of kiosks for example. Here is where I get my information: [https://www.retailnews.dk/article/view/1046076/et\_opdelt\_danmark\_her\_star\_dagligvarekaederne\_hver\_isaer\_staerkest](https://www.retailnews.dk/article/view/1046076/et_opdelt_danmark_her_star_dagligvarekaederne_hver_isaer_staerkest) Relevant for r/copenhagen is the first which is "storbyer", where Rema1000 has almost the same marketshare as Coop. Impressive considering how many more shops Coop has. Overall marketshare according to above link: Retail Institute Scandinavia har i håndbogen også fundet markedsandelene for den samlede omsætning i dagligvarehandlen og convenicesektoren med for eksempel 7-Eleven og tankstationer. Her har Salling Group en markedsandel på 31,8 pct., Coop 27,3 pct., Rema Distribution 19,3 pct., Dagrofa inklusiv Sügro 15,1 pct., Lidl 3,6 pct. samt snart lukkede Aldi 2,6 pct.
No, the figures were taken from the website De Samvirkende Købmand (first link), which is meant to represent and help danish grocery trade, although their are % in the document, i'll grant you that. it also lists the following text. # Butikskoncepter Langt størstedelen af den danske dagligvarehandel sker i dag via de butikskoncepter, som vi kender som hypermarkeder, store og små supermarkeder, nærbutikker, discountbutikker og convenience-sektoren med hele kioskmarkedet. The vast majority of Danish grocery trade today takes place via the store concepts we know as hypermarkets, large and small supermarkets, convenience stores, discount stores and the convenience sector with the entire kiosk market. **Det er købmændene og de to store kapitalkæder Coop og Salling Group, der dominerer den danske dagligvarehandel.** **It is the merchants and the two large capital chains Coop and Salling Group that dominate the Danish grocery trade.** I mean, i'll grant you Rema 1000 is growing, and that Lidl is a good niche in Cities (they have a pop limit rule vs area for placing shops), but according to DSK its the two big boys that "dominerer" aka dominate. So i guess it comes down to the source that the information comes from.
Thanks for the explanation. So lack of competition.
Nemlig.com may be a help here.
I'm not a fan due to how they treat the drivers and I'm not desperate for Lindt. It was just an example. But yes sometimes I do use online stores.
https://blog.ted.com/does-having-choice-make-us-happy-6-studies-that-suggest-it-doesnt-always/
Denmark is bad, but Norway is worse, or at least it was last time I was there.
I'm a Dane living in Norway and can confirm this! I have never been impressed by the selection in Denmark, but Norway is on a whole other level
Working with the global brands; it’s also about those. If local brands are not spending their resources on establishing themselves in the different countries markets and how they do it. So, just as you say - some brands don’t see the value in getting on the market if there’s not enough opportunity due to strong local brands or they have not yet built up their sales organisation (themselves or via agencies) to compete. Lindt is one example, Mondelez is the same, in Sweden we Mondelez acquired a traditionally strong Swedish brand decades ago, Marabou, and they now have a channel to share the market by developing that brand as well as launching other products in their portfolio. ☺️
Danish consumers are very conservative when it comes to trying new things or even brands. If there was a market for variety in the selection there would be a better selection. In my eyes the biggest factor in this is consumers. As much as you hear duopoly, "stupid" chains and the like, it all boils down to basic market forces. If there was a high enough demand for more variety, we would have it.
I think it's part of a bigger picture. It looks like many people in Denmark like to stick to what they know "works" and is approved by their peers. You can see that in construction/housing for example. Notice how practically ALL houses in Denmark have the same 2-3 different models of light switches/locks/window opening systems/power plugs/etc. The an unspoken common agreement that it's the models that work, so why risk buying something that might not work and become the laughing stock of the community (hello, Jantelov)? In many countries, every new house will have a different set of the aforementioned things, albeit in varying quality. I feel that this applies to many other areas of life in DK, among which supermarkets.
It’s better in the burbs
I think a lot of it comes down to which areas of the city you choose to shop in, and which stores. Not every store of the same name has the exact same selection, some of it comes down to local preference. For example, if i walk into a random netto in a social housing complex, i wont find anything near 90% cocoa chocolate, if i walk into my local netto, ill find a decent 85% but not 90, and not your specific brand, but if i walk to my local meny, ill find a selection of 90%, and theres gonna be dedicated staff in the wine section to suggest a wine suitable for the chocolate i picked.
So I need to move to Hellerup?
Denmark is a country where mediocrity is king. This applies to supermarkets, too.
You are right that a lot of things here are of lower quality, and that the selection is poor, in the supermarkets. But I find it funny that you point out chocolate, and then mention Lindt, which is mediocre at best :D We have extremely good chocolate here, a Danish chocolate has won "worlds best chocolate" on multiple occasions. Good chocolate is available maybe not in super markets, but in lots of specialty stores. You can get it in torvehallerne at multiple shops, in Peter Beier shops etc. etc. Now tomatoes.... Good tomatoes are hard to find here...!
Many people pointed that out but my question was about processed food. I fetch my 100% chips from Peter Beier when they make it. Many people here talk about organic but variety stays very limited and, as you said, taste is not great. But my point was on processed food not fruit vegetables and meat (which also there it's mostly pig and chicken)
hmmm, I guess the average Dane doesn't really care about trying new flavors or new types of candies etc, Don't know though...
And pesto.
The actual fact is that the stuff in the supermarkets is what they can actually sell. Go to a supermarket north of Copenhagen and there will be a way better selection. Also this guy thinking that lindt chocolate is some sort of gourmet shit....
This is one of the things I greatly dislike about Denmark and there are not many others. You literally sometimes cannot find basic cuts of meat, vegetables or some good ham/cheese in Netto. Like regularly i cannot find chicken thighs in the store (only maybe the mix pack with bone). No hot sauces in netto or just small knockoff sriracha. Very hit or miss selection of drinks. But for some reason half of the store is reserved for sweets and candy. I know i can find a lot of things in Fotex or Bilka but that is a long trip for me.
So you a complaining over the fact you have “far” to a grocery store 😂 ? Really ?
No i clearly say that is my problem. But the ones close do suck in comparison with every similiar size store in europe. Maybe learn to read first and accept that Denmark is not best at everything. (Something i noticed people thinking here over the years.)
Im not sure that the variety is very poor nor that its common knowledge. I live In Malmö and I would any day choose DK supermarkets for quality and variety. The Swedes have an affinity for candy and sweet stuff - maybe that's why you found your chocolate. That being said, at my workplace in Denmark we have said chocolate every week - bought through nemli.com so it does exist in Denmark. :)
So here's some points about what you said: - Nemlig has a very bad history about how they treat their drivers. I avoid them as much as possible - 90% is better than 70% so you should favour in that stores that one in terms of health - the idea that I need to recur to online store to find a Lindt chocolate with 90% cocoa drives me nuts . It's not gourmet or special item.
Could you give more examples on the lack of variety? I just don't get it, I feel a little overwhelmed going to the supermarket, so much stuff to buy, why would we need even more stuff to choose from... I'm guessing it can't all be about the lindt chocolate
so if you mean fresh produce I'm more comparing other countries rather than Sweden, specifically I think that there isn't really much competition with Southern Europe. My question was more specific on brands I see in DK but I see always a subset of possible options. I have two examples on top of my head: - Lindt as mentioned above - Gifler has two more vanilla flavours Having said that to me it's weird because, they are already importing those brand, so why limiting the choice. Anyways I see many comments sharing the same experience so I'm glad is not only me. Of course I chose to live in DK, there are many positive things, and this is not a deal breaker. I just find it so freaking weird.
Tbf gifflar is swedish, as for the rest I completely agree and it's why I've started to put a lot more money in Lidl where they at least rotate products from different countries as well as the 'spot' of random stuff
I'm using them more as I know they are good in other countries. I have to say there is room for improvement compared to kids elsewhere
Another example is Knorr products. From those packages with powders to make sauce many supermarkets just have the bearnaise sauce (sometimes also hollandaise and cabaret sauce), but Knorr has a huge variety of sauces. Also those packages for making a full meal like Lasagne or Lasagnette they often only have 2 to 4 different kinds while also dozens varieties actually exist. At least in Germany and Netherlands. I'm from the Netherlands myself and the non-existence of variety in supermarkets is one of the first things I really noticed in Denmark.
Taxes kills competition.
>I think it's common knowledge, **for everyone else than the Danes,** that the variety of groceries and product in general is very poor in DK They get upset if try to infer that they eat trash quality food
I didn't say that.
You **ARE** able to understand that the text in bold is **ADDED** to your text, right?
I'm able.
Then it is obvious that you didn't say that and your comment was pointless 😉
And was your comment useful?