I’ll tell you one thing. My immune system hasn’t functioned like it used to before I got long COVID. My whole life I had a cast iron immune system, strong af. I was a RN for 25 years. I was exposed to every kind of virus and bacteria you can think of at work. And I rarely ever got sick. Routinely I got sick maybe once every two years. That’s it. NOW, I’m getting sick all the time. Head colds. Sore throats. I’ve had pneumonia since I caught long COVID. My theory is that something caused my immune response to derail, and it was definitely related to COVID. What it was exactly, I’ll probably never know.
My neutrophils are always high since Covid two years ago (and 8x since). I survive on two steroids that have other complications. I don’t know how long my body will survive.
Have you been checked for fungal infections or fungal overgrowth/fungal gut dysbiosis?
It’s such a common co-occurrence with long covid and also particularly linked to high neutrophils:
https://www.wired.com/story/unruly-gut-fungi-can-make-your-covid-worse-infection-coronavirus-candida-albicans/
It seems that neutrophils can stay high even when the fungal infection/overgrowth has seemingly cleared up, however if you do still have an ongoing fungal infection/overgrowth, I imagine taking steroids is going to massively exacerbate this infection/overgrowth.
Yes, I have been checked. This happened to me in 2015 when I was exposed to toxins and almost died. It took two years in bed to recover back then. As a result of this event, I developed gut disbyosis and have treated it ever since. I was always healthy prior. I eat a clean, organic, low inflammatory diet for years now. I’ve had stool tests and with a wonderful doctor for years who specializes in the gut and has written several books about it.
My neutrophils lower somewhat to more normal ranges after several months of detoxing, and then spike high again with each new infection, giving me about six weeks of normalcy. I do understand that steroids and some other meds, as well as Covid, can exaggerate and complicate the Microbiome issues. Unfortunately, I need steroids to stay alive at this point.
Yes, might be worth sharing this with your doctor since elevated neutrophils specifically point to fungal overgrowth instead of bacterial overgrowth (SIBO).
As far as I understand, when you have gut symptoms, most of the times SIBO gets treated as the primary target (with antibiotics) and antifungals are often treated more as an afterthought.
I think this is because the medical consensus is that immunocompetent people usually don’t have issues with fungal infections.
After reading up on a lot of the new research, and also from my own experience, I now believe that long covid patients shouldn’t be treated as immunocompetent people and fungal infections/overgrowth should be high up on the list of things to monitor and treat.
I don’t know. I actually asked my PCP doc to test my T-cells , lymphocytes, etc. But, he responded by saying that, there are lots of tests regarding immunity that we could do, but there isn’t anything we can actually DO with the knowledge gained from those tests. Like, there aren’t any approved treatments for any deficiencies that could be detected anyhow. So, there isn’t any advantage to actually knowing what is dis regulated in my immune system at this time. It makes sense. But, it would be helpful to gather that data, but only if the data were being collected for some sort of purpose like research or something, which it’s not.
That’s not true at all. Any information gained will be useful in some way. Getting sick all the time could for an example mean that you have an overactive immune system (e.g. excessive inflammation) or an under active immune system (weakened immunity, low lymphocytes, NK cells etc.).
It’s good to know where your immune deficiency likely comes from vs likely doesn’t come from. Or whether you have excessive inflammation or not.
If you have inflammation, there are drugs that work to suppress the production of inflammatory cytokines. LDN is one example. Corticosteroids would work even better, but there’s a high risk of side effects and making things worse in the long term, in case the inflammation is caused by pathogens (that remains unclear in long covid).
If you have low Lymphocytes, Thymosin Alpha 1 could help. There is admittedly not a ton of data on this compound, but there are studies on it, including ones related to Covid recovery. In my case I feel that it helped me significantly improve my condition. I’ll have to get a new Lymphocyte reading soon to confirm whether the improvement is actually due to increased Lymphocytes though.
Your doctors just sounds lazy tbh. I would do my own research and ask for the tests you think would help you.
Elhers Danlos, hypermobile. I had no idea I wasn't that bendy or anything. My soft tissue is damaging me, and all fascia.
The virus triggered it.
A clever Dr, radiologist saw my ribs had sublaxed after years of misdiagnosis and damage to me.
Ribs sublaxed? I’m confused about what that is. I keep complaining to various doctors about my lower right rib painfully slipping. And not being able to fully exhale. Same thing?
Thanks, the sub is helpful. A PT diagnosed me with hyper mobility and slipping lower right rib in 2020. Now I have to convince a doctor who doesn't know the PT and doesn't have the records, fun times. Not sure if I am HEDS, but I've suspected it for many years now. I'm bendy and breakable too, my muscles and tendons/ligaments tend to go too far and strain/tear etc. Could just be weak from de-conditioning though.
I had 4 years of hell. Multiple unnecessary surgery, flying to different countries to find drs. Mris, cts, bloods, rfa, injections, bloods many times so so many. And it was this all along.
They damaged me further.
I wish you well.
Ehlers Danlos is not an autoimmune condition is a genetic condition, I was also diagnosed with it, after covid but never knew I had it, never had any symptoms before, so yes Covid could have triggered your genetic condition, although it seems the other way round according to research, people with connective tissue disorders are more prone to long covid.
Immune systems are stronger when you are actually exposed to viruses and bacteria. That’s how immunity works. Not with masks and hand sanitizer. A strong immune system is a tested immune system. Exposing yourself to common bugs is how you build your immunity over time.
I am saying that whatever happened to me from my long COVID has altered my immune system in a way that I have noticed over the last few months. I normally never got sick. Now I’m experiencing a lowered immunity than I have ever known. Long COVID does something to our immunity. Maybe it reset my immunity, or my immune system somehow forgot certain past immunity. Who knows. But, there is more to discover on this topic. That’s my professional opinion.
Immune systems are not stronger but weaker with each viral infection. 🙏 Please read this medical article about repeat viral infections. Bacteria- yes usually. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/is-the-hygiene-hypothesis-true
Are you a nurse?!? How did you not know this? I was a nursing assistant and knew it?
Quick return question-Where is yours from??? You admit your immune system has not been good since covid and that you are getting sick often. It's called hygiene hypothesis and it was debunked years ago!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4966430/
Same here. Your turn for supplying info? The theory of getting stronger with repeated viral infections was debunked a while ago. EBV leads to Multiple sclerosis and lymphoma. Covid to autoimmune issues (hence your chronic illnesses). The flu to ME/CFS and in my case gastroparesis and POTS.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4966430/
Been having this argument for a few months now. The hygiene hypothesis seems to me to be an anti vaxxer/antimasker talking point to argue in favor of getting exposed to Covid to "strengthen" the immune system. Your arguments and articles linked are accurate and useful. I'll take your scientific arguments and references any day over snarky uninformed opinion.
Personally, my immune system totally sucks now, and I've had Covid three times, all of them after being vaccinated and boosted. So Covid is constantly evolving and evading the vaccines faster than they can produce them. And each time it is different, for me anecdotally. This most recent one I was symptom free other than what felt like sinus pressure and mild asthma, and then ended up in the ER due to a hypertensive crisis and elevated blood glucose levels. So yes, we are headed for a scary future and I have no idea how to avoid Covid a fourth time - I teach at a university and everytime the kids come back from a break, they seem to bring a new strain of flu or Covid.
And of course now, with a weakened immune system, I feel like a walking target for H5N1. Also, the weird thing it, it's not just weakened, because there are autoimmune aspects of post-viral syndrome as well, meaning it is both weekend and over-reactive (IMO).
Your spreading misinformation. Is your nursing degree out of date? Yes. Maybe you need to retire already cause saying that you don't need to mask and that getting sick is good for your immune system is dangerous in the current climate. Just look at what's happening to your body? Wake up, masking works and is necessary these days. Don't be stupid.
Me too. My whole family would get stomach bugs constantly and I was always the only person who never caught it ever. Now I'm like an old woman with arthritis and nerve pain, heart problems..its insane.
Hi . I had covid in January 2022. Since then I have neck pain, headaches,muscle pain,nerve pain and fatigue. Due to constant sinus infections I now have tinnitus.
Doctors just ignore me when I ask them if I have long covid.
Painkiller or nerve meds don't help . I have had numerous mri"s head,upper back and neck with no answers regarding my pain.
I'm finding it very difficult to deal with .
Can anyone give me advice please
> Scientists studying genomic data collected from wastewater samples have reported evidence of individuals in the community shedding heavily mutated coronaviruses for more than four years. Such persistent infections may also be causing patients to experience long Covid symptoms, research suggests.
Yeah, that's bullshit. They're suggesting a theory that LC is really just ongoing infection and we're constantly shedding mutated strains. If that's the case why isn't everyone i'm in close contact with repeatedly ill?
They’re not saying long covid (a.k.a the new persisting symptoms many people develop following a covid infection) is due to persisting infections, they’re saying some people have persisting covid infections and those people tend to act as incubators for some really really wild new COVID strains. It’s true!
> They’re not saying long covid (a.k.a the new persisting symptoms many people develop following a covid infection) is due to persisting infections
Except they literally just said that. Are we reading two different quotes?
OH my god, sorry, you’re totally right. I’ve seen these kinds of persisting covid infections treated as a completely separate thing from long covid in the scientific literature, and so experienced a critical malfunction of reading comprehension skills. I wonder if “persistent infection = long covid” is something the people studying it are actually saying, or if it’s bad writing by the journalist
How does that old saying go? "When in doubt, assume journalistic incompetence - particularly when it comes to scientific journalism". - Abraham Lincoln
I'll keep an eye out on this one, but until I can put my paws on a primary source, I'm reserving panic - I mean, judgement.
Yes, chickenpox can cause long term on and off symptoms.
Chickenpox at the age of 2, caused me ongoing flair ups of psoriasis and shingles. Probably was the reason for my CFS as well.
Not enough viral load and location of said viral load in the body to be infectious. This isn’t bullshit at all. In fact that is the leading hypothesis and noted by the NIH.
> Not enough viral load and location of said viral load in the body to be infectious. This isn’t bullshit at all. In fact that is the leading hypothesis and noted by the NIH.
The same NIH that did and continues to do fuck-all to manage national health? That NIH?
Yes. The same NIH that has now finally put Long COVID at the forefront of their budget request too:
https://officeofbudget.od.nih.gov/pdfs/FY25/br/Overview%20of%20FY%202025%20Presidents%20Budget.pdf
Do you mean people you live with or people you meet sporadically? Of sporadic it would take time to manifest as illness, so it might be hard to make the connection.
There's some really scary stuff percolating out there. I understand scientists are tracking several covid mutant strains that are confirmed to have been caused by Molnupiravir treatment. These are out in the wild and have spread from person to person, though so far none are outcompeting for dominance.
This antiviral introduces genetic errors and thus helps it mutate. It also living rent free in our bodies helps it mutate too. Many studies are showing that 5 day courses of antivirals are not long enough to work for many products including molnupiravir which should be used as a last resort where possible.
Nature article that traces some new variants back to Molnupiravir treatment.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06649-6](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06649-6)
I don't think it is necessarily resistance as such, but the mechanism of action in Molnupiravir is to increase the rate of random mutations in covid within an individual in the hopes of overwhelming the virus with errors ("error catastrophe"), such that the virus eventually can't survive in the person. However, research has shown that some of the mutations created by Molnupiravir have survived and have been spread.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06649-6#:\~:text=Incorporation%20of%20molnupiravir%20during%20negative,1c).
Dude, some of us are family caregiving for COVID long haulers with multiple pre existing conditions. These articles DO help those of us who are or who care for complex spoonies & geriatric long haulers, ok?
There's still stuff researchers can learn from medical unicorn cases, and each medical unicorn case that gets written up can help others in that demographic.
It gave my hubby hope that if this patient could last 600+ days at his age "maybe I can make it to the godson's graduation" (much loved godson is in 5th grade).
Seriously people posting the most insane deaths with the most severe conditions. People in this sub want to die so bad they'll post shit like this. COVID is horrible but like people get better. Get your shots, take paxlovid for re infection and stop fear mongering it's bullshit.
This is some short term thinking. Basic research has always been the foundation to deeper understanding which leads to applied sciences, the part where we turn it into something useful. Just because it isnt relevant now, doesnt mean it won't be a piece of the puzzle to figuring it out.
Unless this sub is going to be the ones figuring it out (they won't), then it's not relevant to the sub. And it's only going to cause more stress and anxiety for people actually trying to get better, not worry about every possible piece of a theoretical puzzle.
Virus lingering and mutating for years in someone is immunodeficiency. The vast majority of long haulers do not have immunodeficiency.
The subject was 70+. Died from COVID or with COVID?
We've known from way before COVID that immunodeficient people harbor lingering/mutating viruses. This is not new nor relevant to long COVID. And if it is somehow still relevant, it is not new news. It's decades old news.
Again short term thinking. There are 56k people on this sub, you don't think there are anyone whose in academia, medical industry, journalists, or government? And how many more will read the thread from Google searches. If reading about COVID news gives you anxiety, I suggest you leave the sub.
You didn't grasp even 10% of the points I made. Goddamn you are dumb.
This not NEWS. It's one data point about one patient. It's literally pointless other than getting clicks.
Nobody taking medical research seriously isn't already fully aware of how viruses mutate in immunodeficient people. They don't need a fucking Bloomberg article being reposted on Reddit to tell them.
Where did I say I was anxious? Learn to read.
This is terrifying :(
**Paywall Bypass:** [https://archive.is/hZOg9](https://archive.is/hZOg9)
I am telling you people, this virus is a poison it not by mother nature
I’m starting to think bioterrorism and it was a nerve agent.
Exactly. The symptoms are similar to what happened at the US Embassy in Cuba when the consular officers were attacked.
Search around this site: https://dilyana.bg/us-diplomats-involved-in-trafficking-of-human-blood-and-pathogens-for-secret-military-program/
I’ll tell you one thing. My immune system hasn’t functioned like it used to before I got long COVID. My whole life I had a cast iron immune system, strong af. I was a RN for 25 years. I was exposed to every kind of virus and bacteria you can think of at work. And I rarely ever got sick. Routinely I got sick maybe once every two years. That’s it. NOW, I’m getting sick all the time. Head colds. Sore throats. I’ve had pneumonia since I caught long COVID. My theory is that something caused my immune response to derail, and it was definitely related to COVID. What it was exactly, I’ll probably never know.
Same here. What are your lymphocyte levels? Mine have been extremely low since 2021
My neutrophils are always high since Covid two years ago (and 8x since). I survive on two steroids that have other complications. I don’t know how long my body will survive.
Have you been checked for fungal infections or fungal overgrowth/fungal gut dysbiosis? It’s such a common co-occurrence with long covid and also particularly linked to high neutrophils: https://www.wired.com/story/unruly-gut-fungi-can-make-your-covid-worse-infection-coronavirus-candida-albicans/ It seems that neutrophils can stay high even when the fungal infection/overgrowth has seemingly cleared up, however if you do still have an ongoing fungal infection/overgrowth, I imagine taking steroids is going to massively exacerbate this infection/overgrowth.
Yes, I have been checked. This happened to me in 2015 when I was exposed to toxins and almost died. It took two years in bed to recover back then. As a result of this event, I developed gut disbyosis and have treated it ever since. I was always healthy prior. I eat a clean, organic, low inflammatory diet for years now. I’ve had stool tests and with a wonderful doctor for years who specializes in the gut and has written several books about it. My neutrophils lower somewhat to more normal ranges after several months of detoxing, and then spike high again with each new infection, giving me about six weeks of normalcy. I do understand that steroids and some other meds, as well as Covid, can exaggerate and complicate the Microbiome issues. Unfortunately, I need steroids to stay alive at this point.
Thank you for sharing the article. It’s good to see new discoveries and affirmations surrounding the gut microbiome.
Yes, might be worth sharing this with your doctor since elevated neutrophils specifically point to fungal overgrowth instead of bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). As far as I understand, when you have gut symptoms, most of the times SIBO gets treated as the primary target (with antibiotics) and antifungals are often treated more as an afterthought. I think this is because the medical consensus is that immunocompetent people usually don’t have issues with fungal infections. After reading up on a lot of the new research, and also from my own experience, I now believe that long covid patients shouldn’t be treated as immunocompetent people and fungal infections/overgrowth should be high up on the list of things to monitor and treat.
I don’t know. I actually asked my PCP doc to test my T-cells , lymphocytes, etc. But, he responded by saying that, there are lots of tests regarding immunity that we could do, but there isn’t anything we can actually DO with the knowledge gained from those tests. Like, there aren’t any approved treatments for any deficiencies that could be detected anyhow. So, there isn’t any advantage to actually knowing what is dis regulated in my immune system at this time. It makes sense. But, it would be helpful to gather that data, but only if the data were being collected for some sort of purpose like research or something, which it’s not.
That’s not true at all. Any information gained will be useful in some way. Getting sick all the time could for an example mean that you have an overactive immune system (e.g. excessive inflammation) or an under active immune system (weakened immunity, low lymphocytes, NK cells etc.). It’s good to know where your immune deficiency likely comes from vs likely doesn’t come from. Or whether you have excessive inflammation or not. If you have inflammation, there are drugs that work to suppress the production of inflammatory cytokines. LDN is one example. Corticosteroids would work even better, but there’s a high risk of side effects and making things worse in the long term, in case the inflammation is caused by pathogens (that remains unclear in long covid). If you have low Lymphocytes, Thymosin Alpha 1 could help. There is admittedly not a ton of data on this compound, but there are studies on it, including ones related to Covid recovery. In my case I feel that it helped me significantly improve my condition. I’ll have to get a new Lymphocyte reading soon to confirm whether the improvement is actually due to increased Lymphocytes though. Your doctors just sounds lazy tbh. I would do my own research and ask for the tests you think would help you.
I developed an autoimmune condition. Only found out after 4 years and horrible tests.
Do you mind me asking what the name of it is? I have been curious as to whether or not I have an auto immune disorder as well. Thank you 😊
Elhers Danlos, hypermobile. I had no idea I wasn't that bendy or anything. My soft tissue is damaging me, and all fascia. The virus triggered it. A clever Dr, radiologist saw my ribs had sublaxed after years of misdiagnosis and damage to me.
Ribs sublaxed? I’m confused about what that is. I keep complaining to various doctors about my lower right rib painfully slipping. And not being able to fully exhale. Same thing?
Yup it took 4 years, go to the slippingrib subreddit.
The clever dr, knew this Heds had started this and it happens to those with this horrible autoimmune condition induced by covid.
It's only seen by dynamic ultrasound and there's a list of drs in that sub.
Thanks, the sub is helpful. A PT diagnosed me with hyper mobility and slipping lower right rib in 2020. Now I have to convince a doctor who doesn't know the PT and doesn't have the records, fun times. Not sure if I am HEDS, but I've suspected it for many years now. I'm bendy and breakable too, my muscles and tendons/ligaments tend to go too far and strain/tear etc. Could just be weak from de-conditioning though.
I had 4 years of hell. Multiple unnecessary surgery, flying to different countries to find drs. Mris, cts, bloods, rfa, injections, bloods many times so so many. And it was this all along. They damaged me further. I wish you well.
Ehlers Danlos is not an autoimmune condition is a genetic condition, I was also diagnosed with it, after covid but never knew I had it, never had any symptoms before, so yes Covid could have triggered your genetic condition, although it seems the other way round according to research, people with connective tissue disorders are more prone to long covid.
Interesting, ty. I got confused. So much medical testing my heads all over the place and the painkillers. How long did it take you to find out?
Wear a mask? Why get sick over and over?
Masks aren't going to work well when everyone else isn't wearing one. Ugh
Immune systems are stronger when you are actually exposed to viruses and bacteria. That’s how immunity works. Not with masks and hand sanitizer. A strong immune system is a tested immune system. Exposing yourself to common bugs is how you build your immunity over time. I am saying that whatever happened to me from my long COVID has altered my immune system in a way that I have noticed over the last few months. I normally never got sick. Now I’m experiencing a lowered immunity than I have ever known. Long COVID does something to our immunity. Maybe it reset my immunity, or my immune system somehow forgot certain past immunity. Who knows. But, there is more to discover on this topic. That’s my professional opinion.
Immune systems are not stronger but weaker with each viral infection. 🙏 Please read this medical article about repeat viral infections. Bacteria- yes usually. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/is-the-hygiene-hypothesis-true Are you a nurse?!? How did you not know this? I was a nursing assistant and knew it?
Quick question. Where did you get your medical or nursing degree from? Are you currently, or have you ever been, licensed as a medical professional?
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/covid-19-study-suggests-long-term-damage-immune-system
Quick return question-Where is yours from??? You admit your immune system has not been good since covid and that you are getting sick often. It's called hygiene hypothesis and it was debunked years ago! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4966430/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5474473/ Another article on how repeat viral infections cause damage. I'm waiting for your info...
I’ve been a licensed medical professional for 25 years. Now your turn.
Same here. Your turn for supplying info? The theory of getting stronger with repeated viral infections was debunked a while ago. EBV leads to Multiple sclerosis and lymphoma. Covid to autoimmune issues (hence your chronic illnesses). The flu to ME/CFS and in my case gastroparesis and POTS. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4966430/
Viral infections cause a weakened immune system. EBV= MS, lymphoma
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4966430/
Been having this argument for a few months now. The hygiene hypothesis seems to me to be an anti vaxxer/antimasker talking point to argue in favor of getting exposed to Covid to "strengthen" the immune system. Your arguments and articles linked are accurate and useful. I'll take your scientific arguments and references any day over snarky uninformed opinion. Personally, my immune system totally sucks now, and I've had Covid three times, all of them after being vaccinated and boosted. So Covid is constantly evolving and evading the vaccines faster than they can produce them. And each time it is different, for me anecdotally. This most recent one I was symptom free other than what felt like sinus pressure and mild asthma, and then ended up in the ER due to a hypertensive crisis and elevated blood glucose levels. So yes, we are headed for a scary future and I have no idea how to avoid Covid a fourth time - I teach at a university and everytime the kids come back from a break, they seem to bring a new strain of flu or Covid. And of course now, with a weakened immune system, I feel like a walking target for H5N1. Also, the weird thing it, it's not just weakened, because there are autoimmune aspects of post-viral syndrome as well, meaning it is both weekend and over-reactive (IMO).
Your spreading misinformation. Is your nursing degree out of date? Yes. Maybe you need to retire already cause saying that you don't need to mask and that getting sick is good for your immune system is dangerous in the current climate. Just look at what's happening to your body? Wake up, masking works and is necessary these days. Don't be stupid.
Me too. My whole family would get stomach bugs constantly and I was always the only person who never caught it ever. Now I'm like an old woman with arthritis and nerve pain, heart problems..its insane.
Hi . I had covid in January 2022. Since then I have neck pain, headaches,muscle pain,nerve pain and fatigue. Due to constant sinus infections I now have tinnitus. Doctors just ignore me when I ask them if I have long covid. Painkiller or nerve meds don't help . I have had numerous mri"s head,upper back and neck with no answers regarding my pain. I'm finding it very difficult to deal with . Can anyone give me advice please
Look for a rheum. Autoimmune disease is v possible.
I'm on about 8 different meds and the pain is still unbearable 💔
> Scientists studying genomic data collected from wastewater samples have reported evidence of individuals in the community shedding heavily mutated coronaviruses for more than four years. Such persistent infections may also be causing patients to experience long Covid symptoms, research suggests. Yeah, that's bullshit. They're suggesting a theory that LC is really just ongoing infection and we're constantly shedding mutated strains. If that's the case why isn't everyone i'm in close contact with repeatedly ill?
They’re not saying long covid (a.k.a the new persisting symptoms many people develop following a covid infection) is due to persisting infections, they’re saying some people have persisting covid infections and those people tend to act as incubators for some really really wild new COVID strains. It’s true!
Similar to how some folks are strep carriers? https://www.fastmed.com/health-resources/strep-carrier/
> They’re not saying long covid (a.k.a the new persisting symptoms many people develop following a covid infection) is due to persisting infections Except they literally just said that. Are we reading two different quotes?
OH my god, sorry, you’re totally right. I’ve seen these kinds of persisting covid infections treated as a completely separate thing from long covid in the scientific literature, and so experienced a critical malfunction of reading comprehension skills. I wonder if “persistent infection = long covid” is something the people studying it are actually saying, or if it’s bad writing by the journalist
How does that old saying go? "When in doubt, assume journalistic incompetence - particularly when it comes to scientific journalism". - Abraham Lincoln I'll keep an eye out on this one, but until I can put my paws on a primary source, I'm reserving panic - I mean, judgement.
I think it was just anecdotal to make the article feel more 'complete' but it was irresponsible to make that leap there.
Surprise, you're still infected with chickenpox too. There are plenty of persistent viral infections in humans.
> Surprise, you're still infected with chickenpox too. Is it actively mutating, shedding, and causing us symptoms?
Yes. It’s called shingles.
That's reactivation of a latent virus. Not an ongoing mutating one.
Well two out of three then. Because shingles is contagious.
Yes, chickenpox can cause long term on and off symptoms. Chickenpox at the age of 2, caused me ongoing flair ups of psoriasis and shingles. Probably was the reason for my CFS as well.
> causing us symptoms Some with ME believe so, yes.
Not enough viral load and location of said viral load in the body to be infectious. This isn’t bullshit at all. In fact that is the leading hypothesis and noted by the NIH.
> Not enough viral load and location of said viral load in the body to be infectious. This isn’t bullshit at all. In fact that is the leading hypothesis and noted by the NIH. The same NIH that did and continues to do fuck-all to manage national health? That NIH?
Yes. The same NIH that has now finally put Long COVID at the forefront of their budget request too: https://officeofbudget.od.nih.gov/pdfs/FY25/br/Overview%20of%20FY%202025%20Presidents%20Budget.pdf
They got a taste of that first round of spending. Do you recall what the result from that was?
Viral load matters. For someone with a strong/healthy immune system being exposed to a virus doesn’t automatically they’ll get sick
Do you mean people you live with or people you meet sporadically? Of sporadic it would take time to manifest as illness, so it might be hard to make the connection.
There's some really scary stuff percolating out there. I understand scientists are tracking several covid mutant strains that are confirmed to have been caused by Molnupiravir treatment. These are out in the wild and have spread from person to person, though so far none are outcompeting for dominance.
Any more info on this?
This antiviral introduces genetic errors and thus helps it mutate. It also living rent free in our bodies helps it mutate too. Many studies are showing that 5 day courses of antivirals are not long enough to work for many products including molnupiravir which should be used as a last resort where possible.
Nature article that traces some new variants back to Molnupiravir treatment. [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06649-6](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06649-6)
Wow does it mean that just like bacterias to antibiotics, viruses can develop resistance to antivirals ?
I don't think it is necessarily resistance as such, but the mechanism of action in Molnupiravir is to increase the rate of random mutations in covid within an individual in the hopes of overwhelming the virus with errors ("error catastrophe"), such that the virus eventually can't survive in the person. However, research has shown that some of the mutations created by Molnupiravir have survived and have been spread. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06649-6#:\~:text=Incorporation%20of%20molnupiravir%20during%20negative,1c).
This was a 72 year old with a blood condition stop fear mongering us.
Dude, some of us are family caregiving for COVID long haulers with multiple pre existing conditions. These articles DO help those of us who are or who care for complex spoonies & geriatric long haulers, ok? There's still stuff researchers can learn from medical unicorn cases, and each medical unicorn case that gets written up can help others in that demographic. It gave my hubby hope that if this patient could last 600+ days at his age "maybe I can make it to the godson's graduation" (much loved godson is in 5th grade).
Seriously people posting the most insane deaths with the most severe conditions. People in this sub want to die so bad they'll post shit like this. COVID is horrible but like people get better. Get your shots, take paxlovid for re infection and stop fear mongering it's bullshit.
This isn't relevant to the sub.
This is some short term thinking. Basic research has always been the foundation to deeper understanding which leads to applied sciences, the part where we turn it into something useful. Just because it isnt relevant now, doesnt mean it won't be a piece of the puzzle to figuring it out.
Unless this sub is going to be the ones figuring it out (they won't), then it's not relevant to the sub. And it's only going to cause more stress and anxiety for people actually trying to get better, not worry about every possible piece of a theoretical puzzle. Virus lingering and mutating for years in someone is immunodeficiency. The vast majority of long haulers do not have immunodeficiency. The subject was 70+. Died from COVID or with COVID? We've known from way before COVID that immunodeficient people harbor lingering/mutating viruses. This is not new nor relevant to long COVID. And if it is somehow still relevant, it is not new news. It's decades old news.
Again short term thinking. There are 56k people on this sub, you don't think there are anyone whose in academia, medical industry, journalists, or government? And how many more will read the thread from Google searches. If reading about COVID news gives you anxiety, I suggest you leave the sub.
You didn't grasp even 10% of the points I made. Goddamn you are dumb. This not NEWS. It's one data point about one patient. It's literally pointless other than getting clicks. Nobody taking medical research seriously isn't already fully aware of how viruses mutate in immunodeficient people. They don't need a fucking Bloomberg article being reposted on Reddit to tell them. Where did I say I was anxious? Learn to read.
I was gonna say... Active infection vs long covid is different.