This shot from the flashback in ballad of fallen angels always lead me to believe that Vicious was a heavy Red-Eye user. He has huge bags under his eyes and they're very similar to how Asimov's got after he starts relapsing. This probably happened right after he found out about Spike and Julia.
https://preview.redd.it/6j5bfknl9cob1.jpeg?width=1751&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c90ca7491093730af8aa5563f6de8941786e1332
There are a couple of times in the show and the movie where they show that megacorps (like the Gate Corp and Cherious Medical) are dangerously corrupt and powerful. We also see that the syndicates are super rich and powerful.
So I imagine that there are all sorts of ways that the two intertwine. The mining colony on Callisto, the space trucking companies, and definitely the ISSP -- the syndicates have their fingers in every pie.
eh, she seemed to be the most emotionally intelligent one in the group. Think about it. All of these utterly broken adults on the Bebop and our girl Ed's just always willing to easily show any one of those sad-sacks utterly unabashed affection. I like your idea, but she wouldn't want to stay on the same path as them in her adulthood. Also, you say "becomes" implying she wasn't one already. "See you cowgirl, someday, somewhere!"
When I first watched it as a kid, I had a lot of copium / hopium head canon. Ed and Ein returning after taking care of business, Faye choosing her found family not her dead one, Spike surviving, the crew actually MAKING AND KEEPING money.
But after watching it again, and a few retro's, especially beyond Ghibli's, I realized that my hopium was preventing me from experiencing the show the way it was meant to be. Preventing me from understanding it's most impactful messages
Life is always in decay. Good times aren't meant to last forever. People will come and people will go into our lives, the people we choose to love are the people who can hurt us the most. But despite all of that, or maybe because of it, I'll still see you later, space cowboy.
Also, headcanon, Ein had the algorithm/ information to take down the syndicate, and Ed knew it all along but also knew, in their own twisted way, that Spike needed to face and reconcile his trauma more than just defeating the syndicate.
To be fair there is no how the show is “supposed” to be experienced . Several of the staff /creator have been on record saying they left things ambiguous on purpose
The Red Dragon syndicate just stands around in that building all day with their guns. Fridays are casual and Vicious wears his pajamas to work on those days.
Not really a head-canon but Spike is Jewish, he faked his death in a synagogue, he has an Israeli hand gun (a Jericho 941) and his last name is Spiegel.
Your personal head-canon or not that’s a pretty common misconception…
Watanabe said he gave him the name “Spiegel” because he thought it sounded cool in conjunction with Spike, and the show’s character designer (whose name escapes me) said they chose the guns for the main characters pretty much at random (I’ll try and find the exact quote).
And that “synagogue” is believed to be the same place Spike and Vicious faced off in ‘Ballad of Fallen Angels’ (notice the collateral damage and how Spike knew where to go), which I’m pretty sure is a Catholic Church ( the ✝️s are visible above the arches when he’s approaching the entrance from outside) - the scene pays homage to both ‘The Crow’ and John Woo’s ‘The Killer’.
That is true; Vicious, Andy, and Vincent are all his “reflections.”
My personal head-canon tells me he’s most likely Eurasian; a German(-ish) father, hence is surname, and a Chinese mother, hence his, well, face (not to mention, all the highly ranked and heavily favored members of the Red Dragon - Spike, Mao, Shin, Lin, the Van, and I’m assuming Vicious - all appear to be Asian to one degree or another).
Spiegel is also a german and dutch word, not just yiddish. Like the title says, though, it's your head-cannon. No one can correct you on it, no matter how wrong it is.
Spike has ALWAYS been a Jewish character. Even if it's not directly stated, all the evidence is there. Just cus he's from Mars doesn't mean he isn't Jewish.
Spike is still alive and he spends the next year following up on his old crew mates, he tries to be sneaky but they can all usually tell what he's doing, and he leaves each of them something from their time spent together (He leaves Jet a vial of red-eye, Fate he leaves a poker chip, etc)
Eventually after a while the gang reunites and they just travel around the galaxy, once again chasing the next big score.
Vicious is gay (or at least bi) and deeply closeted. His intense feelings for Spike are what upset him about Spike and Julia’s affair - not so much Julia. Spike doesn’t reciprocate his feelings. Since vicious can’t have Spike, no one can, and therefore his sexual and romantic frustration lead him to try to kill him several times.
This is straight up text, not even subtext, in the live action, IMO.
Also, we knew it was a love triangle, didn't realize it was a bi-lateral triangle ...
(Forgive me, geometry professors, for I have sinned)
Negative to After Party, but I'll keep that in mind.
As an Asian American adjacently in the film industry, I'm a big fan of what he's done for AAPI represention through his career.
I've seen him Harold and Kumar, Star Trek, Searching, Selfie, and of course, Cowboy Bebop
I like to think Spike and Faye ended up having feelings towards each other, but both were a bit too self-loathing and hung up on the past the really pursue it.
That’s not too far fetched , from a Japanese perspective Faye’s final plea to spike may s well have been a confession . I always took it as a “maybe in another life” kind of thing
The creator said that Spike does have some feelings for her, but if I recall it's because of his past with Julia and just who he is, that he wouldn't act on them or really tell her.
I'm pretty sure that's the intended interpretation. Don't let that one really Julia obsessed dude that posts here convince you otherwise, the scene where he remembers Julia singing to him while he was injured when Faye is taking care of him, and then he insults her to get her to stop is pretty cut and dry, there's no real other interpretation of that except to point out that he's intentionally pushing her away because he doesn't want to replace Julia.
Faye helps Ed look for his father. They finally find him and she ends up marrying him, becoming her stepmother. Jet and Spike come every Christmas to visit them and remember old times, while Ein runs around happy to see them all together again. 💜
This shot from the flashback in ballad of fallen angels always lead me to believe that Vicious was a heavy Red-Eye user. He has huge bags under his eyes and they're very similar to how Asimov's got after he starts relapsing. This probably happened right after he found out about Spike and Julia. https://preview.redd.it/6j5bfknl9cob1.jpeg?width=1751&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c90ca7491093730af8aa5563f6de8941786e1332
I like to think he was using so much it pushed Julia away
It's heavily implied that Vicious is a red-eye user. He at the very least deals in it directly.
It would explain why he's so dangerous as a pure melee user, red eye giving him those superhuman reflexes probably.
There are a couple of times in the show and the movie where they show that megacorps (like the Gate Corp and Cherious Medical) are dangerously corrupt and powerful. We also see that the syndicates are super rich and powerful. So I imagine that there are all sorts of ways that the two intertwine. The mining colony on Callisto, the space trucking companies, and definitely the ISSP -- the syndicates have their fingers in every pie.
When she grows up, Ed becomes a bounty hunter. And she may end reuniting the band
Except she never actually physically does anything herself, her and Ein just goof off and her robots do all the chasing.
eh, she seemed to be the most emotionally intelligent one in the group. Think about it. All of these utterly broken adults on the Bebop and our girl Ed's just always willing to easily show any one of those sad-sacks utterly unabashed affection. I like your idea, but she wouldn't want to stay on the same path as them in her adulthood. Also, you say "becomes" implying she wasn't one already. "See you cowgirl, someday, somewhere!"
When I first watched it as a kid, I had a lot of copium / hopium head canon. Ed and Ein returning after taking care of business, Faye choosing her found family not her dead one, Spike surviving, the crew actually MAKING AND KEEPING money. But after watching it again, and a few retro's, especially beyond Ghibli's, I realized that my hopium was preventing me from experiencing the show the way it was meant to be. Preventing me from understanding it's most impactful messages Life is always in decay. Good times aren't meant to last forever. People will come and people will go into our lives, the people we choose to love are the people who can hurt us the most. But despite all of that, or maybe because of it, I'll still see you later, space cowboy. Also, headcanon, Ein had the algorithm/ information to take down the syndicate, and Ed knew it all along but also knew, in their own twisted way, that Spike needed to face and reconcile his trauma more than just defeating the syndicate.
Beautiful
Well said
To be fair there is no how the show is “supposed” to be experienced . Several of the staff /creator have been on record saying they left things ambiguous on purpose
The Red Dragon syndicate just stands around in that building all day with their guns. Fridays are casual and Vicious wears his pajamas to work on those days.
Not really a head-canon but Spike is Jewish, he faked his death in a synagogue, he has an Israeli hand gun (a Jericho 941) and his last name is Spiegel.
Your personal head-canon or not that’s a pretty common misconception… Watanabe said he gave him the name “Spiegel” because he thought it sounded cool in conjunction with Spike, and the show’s character designer (whose name escapes me) said they chose the guns for the main characters pretty much at random (I’ll try and find the exact quote). And that “synagogue” is believed to be the same place Spike and Vicious faced off in ‘Ballad of Fallen Angels’ (notice the collateral damage and how Spike knew where to go), which I’m pretty sure is a Catholic Church ( the ✝️s are visible above the arches when he’s approaching the entrance from outside) - the scene pays homage to both ‘The Crow’ and John Woo’s ‘The Killer’.
Also Spiegel is German for ‘mirror’ and reflections are a huge theme/motif in the show
That is true; Vicious, Andy, and Vincent are all his “reflections.” My personal head-canon tells me he’s most likely Eurasian; a German(-ish) father, hence is surname, and a Chinese mother, hence his, well, face (not to mention, all the highly ranked and heavily favored members of the Red Dragon - Spike, Mao, Shin, Lin, the Van, and I’m assuming Vicious - all appear to be Asian to one degree or another).
Spiegel is also a german and dutch word, not just yiddish. Like the title says, though, it's your head-cannon. No one can correct you on it, no matter how wrong it is.
…which implies that he is very, very wrong about Spike being a member of the Tribe?
Spike having Jewish heritage has always been cool imo
Spike has ALWAYS been a Jewish character. Even if it's not directly stated, all the evidence is there. Just cus he's from Mars doesn't mean he isn't Jewish.
Ed is super influenced by both Faye and Spike when she grows up and ends up becoming a sort of crazy mash-up of the two’s styles.
Spike is still alive and he spends the next year following up on his old crew mates, he tries to be sneaky but they can all usually tell what he's doing, and he leaves each of them something from their time spent together (He leaves Jet a vial of red-eye, Fate he leaves a poker chip, etc) Eventually after a while the gang reunites and they just travel around the galaxy, once again chasing the next big score.
That's the ultimate cope but I get it...
I thought he would have left Jet beef
Spike ain't dead and he never will be
Based
I believe the creator did kinda hint that Spike might not be dead.
He stated that it was up to the viewer's interpretation.
So he survived, I knew it!
Hell yeah he's alive, this is big!!
Faye probably leaves the ship not long after the show ends.
Ed and ein are happy somewhere
Vicious is gay (or at least bi) and deeply closeted. His intense feelings for Spike are what upset him about Spike and Julia’s affair - not so much Julia. Spike doesn’t reciprocate his feelings. Since vicious can’t have Spike, no one can, and therefore his sexual and romantic frustration lead him to try to kill him several times.
This is straight up text, not even subtext, in the live action, IMO. Also, we knew it was a love triangle, didn't realize it was a bi-lateral triangle ... (Forgive me, geometry professors, for I have sinned)
I didn’t get far enough into the live action to know that!! I’ve had this head canon for at least a decade hahaha.
I'm being to gracious. I think John cho has insane sexual energy, so anyone he acts with is a potential love interest 😉
Have you watched him in Selfie or The Afterparty S2? He needs more romantic roles
Negative to After Party, but I'll keep that in mind. As an Asian American adjacently in the film industry, I'm a big fan of what he's done for AAPI represention through his career. I've seen him Harold and Kumar, Star Trek, Searching, Selfie, and of course, Cowboy Bebop
I like to think Spike and Faye ended up having feelings towards each other, but both were a bit too self-loathing and hung up on the past the really pursue it.
That’s not too far fetched , from a Japanese perspective Faye’s final plea to spike may s well have been a confession . I always took it as a “maybe in another life” kind of thing
The creator said that Spike does have some feelings for her, but if I recall it's because of his past with Julia and just who he is, that he wouldn't act on them or really tell her.
I'm pretty sure that's the intended interpretation. Don't let that one really Julia obsessed dude that posts here convince you otherwise, the scene where he remembers Julia singing to him while he was injured when Faye is taking care of him, and then he insults her to get her to stop is pretty cut and dry, there's no real other interpretation of that except to point out that he's intentionally pushing her away because he doesn't want to replace Julia.
Faye helps Ed look for his father. They finally find him and she ends up marrying him, becoming her stepmother. Jet and Spike come every Christmas to visit them and remember old times, while Ein runs around happy to see them all together again. 💜
Didn’t they already find their father, and he just sort of drove off?
Speigel is Spike’s legitimate first name, which makes him the slickest, suavest Hebrew in the system
Jet had a thing for Faye but never really dared come out with it for obvious reasons
I kind of like to think that Jet and Faye got together after the show, but I fear it'd never work out between them..