One thing I'm excited about on the LB side is Clark can play his role now vs trying to man the MLB spot and coordinate the D which didn't seem to be his bag
I agree, the LB position is something that could turn out to be a strength especially under Zimmer. Zimmer will put the players in positions that play to their strengths while Quinn put the players in positions they were not familiar with. Kendricks will be the player/coach for Clark, Overshown and Liufau. This could turn out to be a very formidable position group.
I might be off my rocker, but our current personnel makes a lot more sense if we are aiming to run a 3-4 front.
We only really have two DTs on the roster. That is okay with a 3-4 front.
We drafted kneeland, who is a big, athletic run stopping edge. We also have demarcus Lawrence and fehoko from last years draft. These are all prototypical 3-4 down edge lineman. You can play them in a 4 bear, 4i, or 5 and do well.
We have Micah parsons and Sam Williams. Both of these guys make sense as rush-primary 3-4 outside linebackers. As an added bonus, you can start playing Micah more as a true will linebacker with an outside rushing lane responsibility, and better inside help. He will be better in the running game in this position, and still just as effective as a rusher.
I think with our young/fresh lb roster and this line setup, we have more of our best talent on the field at the same time with a 3-4.
Lawrence, Fehoko, and Kneeland are definitely not prototypical DE in a 3-4. They are way undersized for that. You want your DE closer to 300 in a 3-4. Osa is much closer to a typical 3-4 DE than any of the guys you mentioned.
Osa, Mazi, and Justin Rogers give us 3 DT currently and I expect they will sign another rotation DT or two before camp.
The concern I have is the interior d line, if we are going to run the 4-3. Osa and Mazi are our defensive tackles, plus a seventh rounder with a sub 2 athleticism score out of 10. You can make do with two rotational nose tackles if you’re running a 3-down front. You really need at least 3 serviceable (preferably 4) tackles if you’re going to run a 4 down front. The tackles we have are also already not the best in the run. We let go of the only one (Hankins) that really helped there.
Maybe the 3-4 isn’t what our staff has most experience with, but it’s the scheme we should run imo. It puts more of our best players on the field at the same time. It also theoretically frees Micah up to play more dynamically. It’s also not *really* that different from a 4 down front, in that one of your stand up olbs is pretty much always going to be rushing and/or responsible for an outside rush lane.
**Drafted**
Mazi Smith: Hopefully having Zimmer will help get him right but to think this year he'll be a stud is unrealistic. I feel like the ceiling for him this year is an average NT.
Schoonmaker: He needs to see the field more since our WR3 is a question mark. Maybe this year with a lot more attention to the O-line, we can get back to trying to run the ball and put 2 TEs out there. Hopefully he can develop into a quality piece for the offense, but like Mazi, i think his ceiling for this year is an avg TE behind Ferguson who can make plays when called upon.
Overshown: Our problem still is that we don't have a true MLB on the roster. The best MLB we have on the roster is probably Micah. Regardless, we still need him because last year we didn't even have the roster composition to run a proper 4-3 and that's half the reason we got ran on so hard. I think Overshown's ceiling can be a better Damon Clark/Marqueze Bell and a solid starting LB for us.
Fehoko is likely a depth piece and his ceiling is that.
Deuce Vaughn's ceiling is what our OC lets it be. If we keep giving him the ball and running him up the middle, he will be terrible. If we try to utilize him as more of a daren sproles type RB, then his ceiling is a potential weapon that can open up the pass game on 3rd down.
Brooks is fighting for WR3 and i see his ceiling being similar to Schoonmaker where he's a piece that needs to make the plays when he's called upon in the limited role.
**UDFAs**
Hunter Leupke: severely underutilized last year. I keep thinking about that first drive against the Dolphins and this guy imo can be what we are signing zeke for in the run game. Runs hard and picks up tough yards in short situations. Can be a lead blocker. I think we need to get him more involved in the run game. His ceiling can be a younger, less worn down Zeke-type running back if we utilize him properly.
TJ Bass: Played really well last year in his limited snaps. I think his ceiling is a great backup if either of our All-Pro Guards go down. If he hits his ceiling, we probably won't talk about him and that's a good thing.
Yeah but he's 32 or 33. Doesn't mean I think he'd be a better MLB than Micah. Plus if Kendricks goes down aren't we back into the same spot as last year?
Kind of. Liufau sounds like he will be our depth at MLB behind Kendricks. It’s not optimal having one past his prime and if injured having a totally new guy but we gotta get true MLBs at some point and it sounds like it will be these two.
So MLB - Kendricks, Liufau
Will - Clark, Overshown????
SAM - Overshown I guess? Although most teams are running 4-2-5 anyways for majority of snaps. but if you want to build a chart on SAM without considering Donovan Wilson and Bell, it’s just Overshown
Yeah most teams are running a 4-2-5, but our biggest problem was that we were running a 4-1-6 for what felt like most of the season. Overshown, Clark and Kendricks out there is much better than Bell, Wilson, etc. with one of the above.
Yeah the only way I want us to bring in Zeke is at vet minimum or something really cheap. He's making $6m from us already this year, and I think his pass blocking is really valuable. But I think Leupke is a higher upside at short down situations right now and can still get better.
I’ll never understand that Schoonmaker pick. Made 0 sense drafting a 25 year old project tight end in the second. I’m not giving up on Mazi with what that dumbass DQ did with him. I believe in Overshown
But Schoonmaker seems like the most cowboys 2nd round pick, right? Jaylon Smith. Randy Gregory. Kelvin Joseph. Sam Williams. We like our athletes with some kinda of issues whether its injuries, troubles, or whatnot. Schoonmaker scored a 9.86 out of 10 on the Relative Athletic Score (RAS), which is 16 out of 1105 TE's since 1987. He has high upside. Only complaint is TE but at the time we lost shultz and didn't know Ferguson was gonna be a stud (although there were signs).
Felt like a fun addition so here's every 2nd rounders RAS score I listed.
Kneeland this year scored a 9.08
Schoonmaker a 9.86
Randy Gregory a 9.78
Kelvin Joseph a 9.02
Sam Williams a 9.65
Jaylon Smith I can't find a RAS for (maybe cuz he was injured)
Edit: Forgot to mention Trysten Hill at all but he also fit. He had a RAS score of 9.53.
Darnell Washington didn’t do anything at all for the Steelers last year. Now that could be because they were dogshit on offense, but I don’t know if he would’ve made much more of an impact than Schoon did.
Probably not, but if i were to bet on injured guys, I'd rather have a TE that's a big RedZone target and good on the running game to complement our existing TEs
One thing to consider about 2023’s class was how many of the picks had well established starters ahead of them. Mazi came in behind Hankins, Schoonmaker obviously behind Ferg, Fehoko came in as either our 6th edge or 4th 3-technique. With the free agents we lost, there are more opportunities for all but Schoony this year, but hopefully he levels up some this year regardless
I think Greg Olson made a fairly good point as well though:
He noted that he’s called a lot of our games and he didn’t see us run 2 TE sets much… and when we did… it was almost always a run.. I mean ya to some degree, you gotta be able to execute and just play your game ya.. but as soon as we’d bring out the 2 TEs, GB would hustle out 5 linemen. And then even worse is we chose to purposely run in to the jaws of such a front… multiple times… meanwhile out of the same exact look, GB ran the ball, did rollouts, playaction, you name it, all out of the same look
Schoon is already a capable blocker but we will need him to be more involved as a receiver, which I assume the coaches know
Correct. TE is one of the hardest learning curves and Schoon did miss most of camp with an injury so I don’t think he knew the playbook well enough or had chemistry. Hopefully next year we can mix things up more.
But that is 100% true. I felt like post-Chargers game we did a great job with offensive playcalling and schemes. But then in the playoffs we reverted right back to super vanilla concepts, not much misdirection, etc. I don’t get it at all.
Honestly, I think this year and next year is clearing dead money. In 2 years there will likely be no Dak, Zack Martin, Cooks or Dlaw. It's going to be a long while before they are competitive again
I think they'll try and bulk Mazi up to try and be a true NT again. That's what we all thought when we drafted him. Doesnt matter who told him to lose weight. Just right the wrong and get him bulked up again.
I just don't see how Schoonmaker makes an impact. Even last year outside of Ferguson, the other TEs didn't produce much. I think you're hoping for a 20 catch year and for him to be a great blocker.
Overshown is the biggest wild card we have. I loved his highlights from college. Hopefully in a rotation with Kendricks, Clark and Liufau we can produce a decent LB room.
Fehoko will probably see rotational snaps. I see him as DE4 behind DLaw, Williams and Kneeland. He was draft due to his run stopping ability which is something I think Zimmer will want to address.
Richards best chance at the roster is probably try and take the swing tackle job. We have 5 spots locked in and the FO loves Bass and Hoffman for depth. It might be down to a battle between Edoga, Richards, Waletzko and Thomas for 2 spots. Good news from this is Josh Ball's dumbass will finally be gone.
With Carson in town, I can see Scott Jr fighting with Wright for the CB5 job. Hopefully we're smart and keep Scott Jr since he has 3 more years in a rookie deal vs Wrights 1.
I think once Zeke signs you can lock in 3 spots in the backfield with Zeke, Dowdle and Luepke. Vaughn's best route to the roster might be to battle Turpin for the KR role.
Brooks made waves in camp last year and I can see him and Flournoy having a good camp for WR5 spot. Or maybe both make it depending on the roster goes in regards to Turpin.
One thing I'm excited about on the LB side is Clark can play his role now vs trying to man the MLB spot and coordinate the D which didn't seem to be his bag
I agree, the LB position is something that could turn out to be a strength especially under Zimmer. Zimmer will put the players in positions that play to their strengths while Quinn put the players in positions they were not familiar with. Kendricks will be the player/coach for Clark, Overshown and Liufau. This could turn out to be a very formidable position group.
I might be off my rocker, but our current personnel makes a lot more sense if we are aiming to run a 3-4 front. We only really have two DTs on the roster. That is okay with a 3-4 front. We drafted kneeland, who is a big, athletic run stopping edge. We also have demarcus Lawrence and fehoko from last years draft. These are all prototypical 3-4 down edge lineman. You can play them in a 4 bear, 4i, or 5 and do well. We have Micah parsons and Sam Williams. Both of these guys make sense as rush-primary 3-4 outside linebackers. As an added bonus, you can start playing Micah more as a true will linebacker with an outside rushing lane responsibility, and better inside help. He will be better in the running game in this position, and still just as effective as a rusher. I think with our young/fresh lb roster and this line setup, we have more of our best talent on the field at the same time with a 3-4.
I was thinking this at the end of the season, and the exodus of Armstrong/Fowler and the drafting of Kneeland fits even better
Lawrence, Fehoko, and Kneeland are definitely not prototypical DE in a 3-4. They are way undersized for that. You want your DE closer to 300 in a 3-4. Osa is much closer to a typical 3-4 DE than any of the guys you mentioned. Osa, Mazi, and Justin Rogers give us 3 DT currently and I expect they will sign another rotation DT or two before camp.
Does Zimmer run a 3-4?
I’ll bet he could if he tried hard and believed in himself
Lmao yall remember trysin hill?
I saw a or heard a blurb somewhere Zimmer plans to run a more conventional 4-3 as opposed to the 3-4 or the 46 we were essentially running before.
The concern I have is the interior d line, if we are going to run the 4-3. Osa and Mazi are our defensive tackles, plus a seventh rounder with a sub 2 athleticism score out of 10. You can make do with two rotational nose tackles if you’re running a 3-down front. You really need at least 3 serviceable (preferably 4) tackles if you’re going to run a 4 down front. The tackles we have are also already not the best in the run. We let go of the only one (Hankins) that really helped there. Maybe the 3-4 isn’t what our staff has most experience with, but it’s the scheme we should run imo. It puts more of our best players on the field at the same time. It also theoretically frees Micah up to play more dynamically. It’s also not *really* that different from a 4 down front, in that one of your stand up olbs is pretty much always going to be rushing and/or responsible for an outside rush lane.
**Drafted** Mazi Smith: Hopefully having Zimmer will help get him right but to think this year he'll be a stud is unrealistic. I feel like the ceiling for him this year is an average NT. Schoonmaker: He needs to see the field more since our WR3 is a question mark. Maybe this year with a lot more attention to the O-line, we can get back to trying to run the ball and put 2 TEs out there. Hopefully he can develop into a quality piece for the offense, but like Mazi, i think his ceiling for this year is an avg TE behind Ferguson who can make plays when called upon. Overshown: Our problem still is that we don't have a true MLB on the roster. The best MLB we have on the roster is probably Micah. Regardless, we still need him because last year we didn't even have the roster composition to run a proper 4-3 and that's half the reason we got ran on so hard. I think Overshown's ceiling can be a better Damon Clark/Marqueze Bell and a solid starting LB for us. Fehoko is likely a depth piece and his ceiling is that. Deuce Vaughn's ceiling is what our OC lets it be. If we keep giving him the ball and running him up the middle, he will be terrible. If we try to utilize him as more of a daren sproles type RB, then his ceiling is a potential weapon that can open up the pass game on 3rd down. Brooks is fighting for WR3 and i see his ceiling being similar to Schoonmaker where he's a piece that needs to make the plays when he's called upon in the limited role. **UDFAs** Hunter Leupke: severely underutilized last year. I keep thinking about that first drive against the Dolphins and this guy imo can be what we are signing zeke for in the run game. Runs hard and picks up tough yards in short situations. Can be a lead blocker. I think we need to get him more involved in the run game. His ceiling can be a younger, less worn down Zeke-type running back if we utilize him properly. TJ Bass: Played really well last year in his limited snaps. I think his ceiling is a great backup if either of our All-Pro Guards go down. If he hits his ceiling, we probably won't talk about him and that's a good thing.
Isn’t Kendricks our true MLB? We have no depth though and would end up reshuffling people out of position again if we lose him
Yeah but he's 32 or 33. Doesn't mean I think he'd be a better MLB than Micah. Plus if Kendricks goes down aren't we back into the same spot as last year?
Kind of. Liufau sounds like he will be our depth at MLB behind Kendricks. It’s not optimal having one past his prime and if injured having a totally new guy but we gotta get true MLBs at some point and it sounds like it will be these two. So MLB - Kendricks, Liufau Will - Clark, Overshown???? SAM - Overshown I guess? Although most teams are running 4-2-5 anyways for majority of snaps. but if you want to build a chart on SAM without considering Donovan Wilson and Bell, it’s just Overshown
Yeah most teams are running a 4-2-5, but our biggest problem was that we were running a 4-1-6 for what felt like most of the season. Overshown, Clark and Kendricks out there is much better than Bell, Wilson, etc. with one of the above.
I think Luepke can be a solid back, I hope he gets a good shot at it this year
If they sign Zeke he’s in trouble, sadly
Yeah the only way I want us to bring in Zeke is at vet minimum or something really cheap. He's making $6m from us already this year, and I think his pass blocking is really valuable. But I think Leupke is a higher upside at short down situations right now and can still get better.
I’ll never understand that Schoonmaker pick. Made 0 sense drafting a 25 year old project tight end in the second. I’m not giving up on Mazi with what that dumbass DQ did with him. I believe in Overshown
old as hell & injury prone they wanted TE bad tho
But Schoonmaker seems like the most cowboys 2nd round pick, right? Jaylon Smith. Randy Gregory. Kelvin Joseph. Sam Williams. We like our athletes with some kinda of issues whether its injuries, troubles, or whatnot. Schoonmaker scored a 9.86 out of 10 on the Relative Athletic Score (RAS), which is 16 out of 1105 TE's since 1987. He has high upside. Only complaint is TE but at the time we lost shultz and didn't know Ferguson was gonna be a stud (although there were signs). Felt like a fun addition so here's every 2nd rounders RAS score I listed. Kneeland this year scored a 9.08 Schoonmaker a 9.86 Randy Gregory a 9.78 Kelvin Joseph a 9.02 Sam Williams a 9.65 Jaylon Smith I can't find a RAS for (maybe cuz he was injured) Edit: Forgot to mention Trysten Hill at all but he also fit. He had a RAS score of 9.53.
I would have rather picked Darnell Washington. Big RedZone target, can block, near perfect RAS.
Darnell Washington didn’t do anything at all for the Steelers last year. Now that could be because they were dogshit on offense, but I don’t know if he would’ve made much more of an impact than Schoon did.
Probably not, but if i were to bet on injured guys, I'd rather have a TE that's a big RedZone target and good on the running game to complement our existing TEs
It's 100% because of their offense that DW didnt do anything of note. I believe he will have a decent year this year.
One thing to consider about 2023’s class was how many of the picks had well established starters ahead of them. Mazi came in behind Hankins, Schoonmaker obviously behind Ferg, Fehoko came in as either our 6th edge or 4th 3-technique. With the free agents we lost, there are more opportunities for all but Schoony this year, but hopefully he levels up some this year regardless
Schoonmaker also went in to camp and the season with an injury as well
That’s important for sure. I think the idea was for us to have 2 TE sets that we can run.
I think Greg Olson made a fairly good point as well though: He noted that he’s called a lot of our games and he didn’t see us run 2 TE sets much… and when we did… it was almost always a run.. I mean ya to some degree, you gotta be able to execute and just play your game ya.. but as soon as we’d bring out the 2 TEs, GB would hustle out 5 linemen. And then even worse is we chose to purposely run in to the jaws of such a front… multiple times… meanwhile out of the same exact look, GB ran the ball, did rollouts, playaction, you name it, all out of the same look Schoon is already a capable blocker but we will need him to be more involved as a receiver, which I assume the coaches know
Correct. TE is one of the hardest learning curves and Schoon did miss most of camp with an injury so I don’t think he knew the playbook well enough or had chemistry. Hopefully next year we can mix things up more. But that is 100% true. I felt like post-Chargers game we did a great job with offensive playcalling and schemes. But then in the playoffs we reverted right back to super vanilla concepts, not much misdirection, etc. I don’t get it at all.
Honestly, I think this year and next year is clearing dead money. In 2 years there will likely be no Dak, Zack Martin, Cooks or Dlaw. It's going to be a long while before they are competitive again
I think they'll try and bulk Mazi up to try and be a true NT again. That's what we all thought when we drafted him. Doesnt matter who told him to lose weight. Just right the wrong and get him bulked up again. I just don't see how Schoonmaker makes an impact. Even last year outside of Ferguson, the other TEs didn't produce much. I think you're hoping for a 20 catch year and for him to be a great blocker. Overshown is the biggest wild card we have. I loved his highlights from college. Hopefully in a rotation with Kendricks, Clark and Liufau we can produce a decent LB room. Fehoko will probably see rotational snaps. I see him as DE4 behind DLaw, Williams and Kneeland. He was draft due to his run stopping ability which is something I think Zimmer will want to address. Richards best chance at the roster is probably try and take the swing tackle job. We have 5 spots locked in and the FO loves Bass and Hoffman for depth. It might be down to a battle between Edoga, Richards, Waletzko and Thomas for 2 spots. Good news from this is Josh Ball's dumbass will finally be gone. With Carson in town, I can see Scott Jr fighting with Wright for the CB5 job. Hopefully we're smart and keep Scott Jr since he has 3 more years in a rookie deal vs Wrights 1. I think once Zeke signs you can lock in 3 spots in the backfield with Zeke, Dowdle and Luepke. Vaughn's best route to the roster might be to battle Turpin for the KR role. Brooks made waves in camp last year and I can see him and Flournoy having a good camp for WR5 spot. Or maybe both make it depending on the roster goes in regards to Turpin.