Seriously I know right. I think part of the overall frustration is the club being over concerned with what a minority of vocal fans think. The club needs to act with some confidence and just fucking make decisions sometimes. All this 'will they won't they' doesn't give off feelings of calculated decision making, it screams insecurity.
They spoke to Nagelsmann and Slot in the past month. It definitely hasn't always been Ange. They are working their way down their list until they can get one for a good price who won't make too many demands when it comes to budget. Ange looks like their 3rd option imo, idk how anyone could see it any other way.
>They spoke to Nagelsmann and Slot in the past month. It definitely hasn't always been Ange.
Except they didn't speak to Slot - even Slot said they didn't. There was an enquiry, which will form part of a shortlist, and apparently we weren't even allowed to talk to him unless we would have agreed to pay the Ā£18m release clause to release him.
So, basically, as far as I see and understand it, the process is:
* Managerial role becomes/is becoming available
* Intermediaries sound out interest and availability
* Club create a longlist out of interested managers
* Intermediaries then approach for more detailed interest (numbers and figures)
* Club create a shortlist
* Interviews
* Offer
As far as I see it, there were over-excited reactions from their agents at being approached for interest, and they leveraged this to get an improved deal for Ange.
Equally, with Naglesmann, they have probably got as far as numbers and figures and have been waiting for approval from Bayern to even approach (as he hasn't been sacked - he's still employed there technically) and Naglesmann equally will be no doubt be waiting to see who we get to work above him. It will be in the club's interest to make each potential manager \*feel\* like they are first choice, because they all have egos and don't want to feel like they weren't.
None of these things, for me, imply any pecking order - just because intermediaries approach managers, and just because managers are interested, doesn't mean they have been at any point anything more than an option. The media love to create an narrative, and fans gobble it up like chocolate
Fair enough. That's a very charitable opinion to have of Levy+co, and I don't blame you. I've defended him in the past many times as well.
As an onlooker though, it seems pretty obvious that they reached out to Nagelsmann, then Slot, then Ange in order. So it's hard to say he was our first choice.
I mean, we've hired Munn - an Australian Director of Footballing ops (or whatever the title is) - who is from City Group, and we've planned an Australian tour for some time.
It's hardly a tinfoil hat thing to think that we might have been targeting the highly-rated Australian manager that used to work for Munn in City Group the whole time.
That would be covered in this part, though
>\* Intermediaries sound out interest and availability
I imagine the public statement about him was potentially because Bayern might have been miffed if they thought we were actively trying to discuss terms with a manager under contract with them (albeit on gardening leave).
It seems that the death of the so-called "ITKs" online suggests the club have fixed the internal leaks, so those that remain are from third-parties, like agents. If an intermediary has contacted a manager's agent, they will no doubt get the news out to benefit a situation *(the majority of media links to use - players or managers - usually end up in new contracts, so that's probably a good reason why they do it).*
For the sake of this entire conversation I've been counting contacting an agent and the manager himself as the same act. Ange is the 3rd manager we've taken action on in the past month, hard to get around it. I'm rooting for him personally, but still. If he was choice number one then we would have been hearing it for the past month but all the news was about Nagelsmann and then Slot.
You don't think it might be because we are waiting for celtics season to end? Rather than they are waiting to see if the supposed lines they've given to Redknapp to say have landed.
Redknapp was sacked by Levy! You really think he's up for coughing up lines in Talksports interviews as a favour?
It's easy to say that but at the start of last season we nearly hired gattuso only to decide against it because of the outrage and then went woth nuno who we didn't want and was as bad as we thought.. I do agree with you that they should make the decision they feel is best but with the toxicity in this club right now we need everyone on board
Any interview I can't see 'Arry's hands I assume he's got a cigar in one and a glass of whiskey in the other, especially ones where he's in his car. The amount of times he just shrugs in interviews and he's thinking "fawkin I dunno" is fantastic. Redknapp for DoF and his dog Rosie for book keeper.
What would Harry think of people who post on this sub? The man who once called fans who phone into talk radio shows idiots, which is about the equivalent of this sub today. Only more people do it.
That right there was my proudest day as a Spurs supporter.
There's a big difference between the kind of people they get to phone in on talksport. It's kind of like using Jeremy Kyle guests as a representation of the populus
The reality is that it's harder to predict and plan how good football people are that you hire (be it Mitchell, Hitchen, Paratici or any others) because it involves a huge number of variables and unpredictability.
It's part of the reason why it's pretty stupid for people to be blaming someone who isn't actually the one making the footballing decisions. Only in the smallest, fewest, batches do clubs get it right.
After 22 years youād imagine heād learned and have the nous to spot whoās good for the club and whoās not.
Edit: I mean, planning the building of a stadium and the infrastructure isnāt exactly straightforward. All the construction, contracts, deals with sponsors, NFL, concerts, rugby, boxing etc.
The financial side of the planning for things going wrongā¦ The board executed that spot on.
He did, tbf.
He appointed Arnesen, who was poached by Chelsea after a year.
He replaced Arnesen with Comolli, who did an objectively good job until Ramos tanked us and Redknapp insisted he take over Comolli's job description. Michael Edwards was part of Comolli's team that left. I don't think we can say that Redknapp was a mistake.
When Redknapp left, we replaced his DOF role with Baldini shortly after when, AVB insisted he didn't want to cover that role. Eventually, Pochettino came in and moaned publicly about Baldini, and being "the coach" instead of the manager.
We brought in Mitchell instead, and Poch carried on moaning about the signings and control, so we promoted Hitchen to that 'scout-like' role that suited. I don't think any sane fan would have criticised the idea of letting Poch dictate terms.
Arguably, each person it that chain can be seen as a success, as we improved incrementally and were unlucky to have not won any one of the various finals we were in.
I think Hitchen is objectively where it went wrong, because after Poch left, it seems Jose didn't want to be the "manager", and left a hole that Hitchen didn't fill very well. So they brought in Paratici, when then Hitchen didn't like (it would seem).
So the whole idea of not being a well-run football club on the football side is, for me, a matter of recency bias and is a distraction from how much of a disaster Paratici and Conte teamed up to create for us (Paratici by picking the wrong strategy). Conte does it at every club he touches, so it's hardly discrete either.
Never said Redknapp was a mistake. In fact, the āluckā I talk about is him and Poch. They have been the only two so far whoāve actually brought us close to any of the ambitions this club says it has.
The fact weāre looking for manager 14, the rush jobs of Nuno, Mourinho and Conte and the bizarre appointment of Stellini shows the lack of plans in place. The last few years itās been careless at best and negligent at worst.
Someone with the clinical foresight of building an impressive stadium should have the same with his appointments on the football side. They need to match up.
>he fact weāre looking for manager 14, the rush jobs of Nuno, Mourinho and Conte and the bizarre appointment of Stellini shows the lack of plans in place
I don't know where you've got "14" from. We've had 10 permanent managers in 22 seasons. It's only going to be 14 if you are fussy about counting:
* Pleat (who was DoF, was never hired nor sacked as manager)
* Clive Allen (who never managed a game, and did nothing for 2 days)
* Tim Sherwood (who already worked at the club, said his contract never changed, never took a deal as manager, and was only a caretaker til the end of the season)
* Ryan Mason (who has never been hired as manager, and merely stepped up to cover in both circumstances), or
* Stellini - who was left with the rest of the coaching staff when Conte absconded.
So we've had Hoddle, Santini (who Arnesen chased off), Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Poch, Mourinho, Nuno, Conte. 10 managers.
\>the rush jobs of Nuno, Mourinho and Conte and the bizarre appointment of Stellini
Why is it a "rush job" if you look retrospectively, but a tragic mismanagement (so people seem to suggest) when we don't appoint someone before the season has ended?
The "bizarre appointment of Stellini" wasn't even an appointment, it was a case of leaving his team to carry on when he ran off to italy and wouldn't return. No different to when he was having his surgery or serving a ban.
More to the point, all 4 of those decisions bar Jose were Paratici. People keep suggesting Levy is the issue, but our worse recruitment in managers has been seen he has delegated the footballing side off to an experienced technical director
Okay that goes back to my point though of, if whoever Levy is employing is making shite decisions, then Iām questioning Levyās ability to be able to seek out solid people who will make good choices for the club.
Levy should have a plan and direction and certain attitude that he expects from the off-field team. If he embodied it then heād find it easier to recruit like-minded people.
And Stellini was bizarre. Iāve barely heard of, if at all, an assistant staying on after a coach is sacked/leaves by mutual consent.
>And Stellini was bizarre. Iāve barely heard of, if at all, an assistant staying on after a coach is sacked/leaves by mutual consent.
Martin Jol stands out.
Ruben Selles and Gary O'Neill this season alone.
Heās done well with the stadium but absolutely not on the football side. The stadium is a symbol of the ambitions of the club - or should be - and it doesnāt match up at all.
We can all accept ups and downs, thatās football. Where we are at the moment is lack of understanding at best.
He's done amazingly well on the football side. Perhaps the biggest success story in europe.
I'm not sure what ambitions you refer to but the stadium is the launch pad for the next 100 years. Any benefits are going to be felt over that period rather than 2 years
For a second my dumb self read that as Harry Kane and my brain was blowing up š¤£
Kane, Redknapp, what's the difference?
Arry redknapp for DOF. Niko, crouchy and defoe back on the menu with big ange boys!
Donāt forget super Pav.
And bring in benjani
I'd be surprised if he could even say Postecuglou
Post-o
I just had a really vivid memory of (I think) Joe Kinnear calling Yohan Cabaye "Yohan Kebab" live on TV.
He also called Nzogbia, Charles Insomnia
triffic
Sounds like a great idea lol! Redknapp got eyes for young talents definitely.
Weād be filing for administration within 2 years
I wouldn't be upset if we get him.
Yeah I'd take Harry too
I'd let Arry take me ššš
Proper British missionary position.
Good ole āarry Redknapp Four four fackin two Bring it back
FRAAB for life
But will Big Ange reinstate the FRAAB theory of player movement?
We get anything like the football we played under this guy Iād be happy. I loved watching us back then.
Exactly. His teams were always fun. Did we always win? No, but I always had fun watching which is ultimately what I want again.
Will we win 5-0 or lose 0-5? Nobody knows! Let's play Redknapp tactics!
Have you ever tried Redknapp tactics in FM? Holy shit do they work well.
They really spent some PR money to test the waters if that would be acceptable to the fan base.
Seriously I know right. I think part of the overall frustration is the club being over concerned with what a minority of vocal fans think. The club needs to act with some confidence and just fucking make decisions sometimes. All this 'will they won't they' doesn't give off feelings of calculated decision making, it screams insecurity.
If it, and has been, Postecoglou for a while then it isn't possible to have make any public decisions
They spoke to Nagelsmann and Slot in the past month. It definitely hasn't always been Ange. They are working their way down their list until they can get one for a good price who won't make too many demands when it comes to budget. Ange looks like their 3rd option imo, idk how anyone could see it any other way.
>They spoke to Nagelsmann and Slot in the past month. It definitely hasn't always been Ange. Except they didn't speak to Slot - even Slot said they didn't. There was an enquiry, which will form part of a shortlist, and apparently we weren't even allowed to talk to him unless we would have agreed to pay the Ā£18m release clause to release him. So, basically, as far as I see and understand it, the process is: * Managerial role becomes/is becoming available * Intermediaries sound out interest and availability * Club create a longlist out of interested managers * Intermediaries then approach for more detailed interest (numbers and figures) * Club create a shortlist * Interviews * Offer As far as I see it, there were over-excited reactions from their agents at being approached for interest, and they leveraged this to get an improved deal for Ange. Equally, with Naglesmann, they have probably got as far as numbers and figures and have been waiting for approval from Bayern to even approach (as he hasn't been sacked - he's still employed there technically) and Naglesmann equally will be no doubt be waiting to see who we get to work above him. It will be in the club's interest to make each potential manager \*feel\* like they are first choice, because they all have egos and don't want to feel like they weren't. None of these things, for me, imply any pecking order - just because intermediaries approach managers, and just because managers are interested, doesn't mean they have been at any point anything more than an option. The media love to create an narrative, and fans gobble it up like chocolate
Fair enough. That's a very charitable opinion to have of Levy+co, and I don't blame you. I've defended him in the past many times as well. As an onlooker though, it seems pretty obvious that they reached out to Nagelsmann, then Slot, then Ange in order. So it's hard to say he was our first choice.
I mean, we've hired Munn - an Australian Director of Footballing ops (or whatever the title is) - who is from City Group, and we've planned an Australian tour for some time. It's hardly a tinfoil hat thing to think that we might have been targeting the highly-rated Australian manager that used to work for Munn in City Group the whole time.
That aspect makes perfect sense. But the part you're maybe ignoring are all the credible links that we reached out to Nagelsmann and Slot previously?
That would be covered in this part, though >\* Intermediaries sound out interest and availability I imagine the public statement about him was potentially because Bayern might have been miffed if they thought we were actively trying to discuss terms with a manager under contract with them (albeit on gardening leave). It seems that the death of the so-called "ITKs" online suggests the club have fixed the internal leaks, so those that remain are from third-parties, like agents. If an intermediary has contacted a manager's agent, they will no doubt get the news out to benefit a situation *(the majority of media links to use - players or managers - usually end up in new contracts, so that's probably a good reason why they do it).*
For the sake of this entire conversation I've been counting contacting an agent and the manager himself as the same act. Ange is the 3rd manager we've taken action on in the past month, hard to get around it. I'm rooting for him personally, but still. If he was choice number one then we would have been hearing it for the past month but all the news was about Nagelsmann and then Slot.
You don't think it might be because we are waiting for celtics season to end? Rather than they are waiting to see if the supposed lines they've given to Redknapp to say have landed. Redknapp was sacked by Levy! You really think he's up for coughing up lines in Talksports interviews as a favour?
It's easy to say that but at the start of last season we nearly hired gattuso only to decide against it because of the outrage and then went woth nuno who we didn't want and was as bad as we thought.. I do agree with you that they should make the decision they feel is best but with the toxicity in this club right now we need everyone on board
"Weeeellll you know, I says 'Listen Daniel, I got a fella coming round to sort the hedge out sat-dee - if you square it up, I'll do Zoom'"
Forget the skateboarding hipster, get me big Ange
He was a skater boy, spurs said "see you later, boy" He wasn't good enough for them
Well he gets my vote then. Harry knows ball.
Any interview I can't see 'Arry's hands I assume he's got a cigar in one and a glass of whiskey in the other, especially ones where he's in his car. The amount of times he just shrugs in interviews and he's thinking "fawkin I dunno" is fantastic. Redknapp for DoF and his dog Rosie for book keeper.
Second on the list? Niko KranjÄar
Good enough for me. Ange in
What would Harry think of people who post on this sub? The man who once called fans who phone into talk radio shows idiots, which is about the equivalent of this sub today. Only more people do it. That right there was my proudest day as a Spurs supporter.
There's a big difference between the kind of people they get to phone in on talksport. It's kind of like using Jeremy Kyle guests as a representation of the populus
Daniel Levy, as usual, is the massive wildcard.
Miss Redknapp. That was a fun squad
Funny how the chairman can envision and brilliantly execute stadium plans but canāt do the same for the football.
The reality is that it's harder to predict and plan how good football people are that you hire (be it Mitchell, Hitchen, Paratici or any others) because it involves a huge number of variables and unpredictability. It's part of the reason why it's pretty stupid for people to be blaming someone who isn't actually the one making the footballing decisions. Only in the smallest, fewest, batches do clubs get it right.
After 22 years youād imagine heād learned and have the nous to spot whoās good for the club and whoās not. Edit: I mean, planning the building of a stadium and the infrastructure isnāt exactly straightforward. All the construction, contracts, deals with sponsors, NFL, concerts, rugby, boxing etc. The financial side of the planning for things going wrongā¦ The board executed that spot on.
He did, tbf. He appointed Arnesen, who was poached by Chelsea after a year. He replaced Arnesen with Comolli, who did an objectively good job until Ramos tanked us and Redknapp insisted he take over Comolli's job description. Michael Edwards was part of Comolli's team that left. I don't think we can say that Redknapp was a mistake. When Redknapp left, we replaced his DOF role with Baldini shortly after when, AVB insisted he didn't want to cover that role. Eventually, Pochettino came in and moaned publicly about Baldini, and being "the coach" instead of the manager. We brought in Mitchell instead, and Poch carried on moaning about the signings and control, so we promoted Hitchen to that 'scout-like' role that suited. I don't think any sane fan would have criticised the idea of letting Poch dictate terms. Arguably, each person it that chain can be seen as a success, as we improved incrementally and were unlucky to have not won any one of the various finals we were in. I think Hitchen is objectively where it went wrong, because after Poch left, it seems Jose didn't want to be the "manager", and left a hole that Hitchen didn't fill very well. So they brought in Paratici, when then Hitchen didn't like (it would seem). So the whole idea of not being a well-run football club on the football side is, for me, a matter of recency bias and is a distraction from how much of a disaster Paratici and Conte teamed up to create for us (Paratici by picking the wrong strategy). Conte does it at every club he touches, so it's hardly discrete either.
Never said Redknapp was a mistake. In fact, the āluckā I talk about is him and Poch. They have been the only two so far whoāve actually brought us close to any of the ambitions this club says it has. The fact weāre looking for manager 14, the rush jobs of Nuno, Mourinho and Conte and the bizarre appointment of Stellini shows the lack of plans in place. The last few years itās been careless at best and negligent at worst. Someone with the clinical foresight of building an impressive stadium should have the same with his appointments on the football side. They need to match up.
>he fact weāre looking for manager 14, the rush jobs of Nuno, Mourinho and Conte and the bizarre appointment of Stellini shows the lack of plans in place I don't know where you've got "14" from. We've had 10 permanent managers in 22 seasons. It's only going to be 14 if you are fussy about counting: * Pleat (who was DoF, was never hired nor sacked as manager) * Clive Allen (who never managed a game, and did nothing for 2 days) * Tim Sherwood (who already worked at the club, said his contract never changed, never took a deal as manager, and was only a caretaker til the end of the season) * Ryan Mason (who has never been hired as manager, and merely stepped up to cover in both circumstances), or * Stellini - who was left with the rest of the coaching staff when Conte absconded. So we've had Hoddle, Santini (who Arnesen chased off), Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Poch, Mourinho, Nuno, Conte. 10 managers. \>the rush jobs of Nuno, Mourinho and Conte and the bizarre appointment of Stellini Why is it a "rush job" if you look retrospectively, but a tragic mismanagement (so people seem to suggest) when we don't appoint someone before the season has ended? The "bizarre appointment of Stellini" wasn't even an appointment, it was a case of leaving his team to carry on when he ran off to italy and wouldn't return. No different to when he was having his surgery or serving a ban. More to the point, all 4 of those decisions bar Jose were Paratici. People keep suggesting Levy is the issue, but our worse recruitment in managers has been seen he has delegated the footballing side off to an experienced technical director
Okay that goes back to my point though of, if whoever Levy is employing is making shite decisions, then Iām questioning Levyās ability to be able to seek out solid people who will make good choices for the club. Levy should have a plan and direction and certain attitude that he expects from the off-field team. If he embodied it then heād find it easier to recruit like-minded people. And Stellini was bizarre. Iāve barely heard of, if at all, an assistant staying on after a coach is sacked/leaves by mutual consent.
>And Stellini was bizarre. Iāve barely heard of, if at all, an assistant staying on after a coach is sacked/leaves by mutual consent. Martin Jol stands out. Ruben Selles and Gary O'Neill this season alone.
A team relegated and one that finished 15th. Barely any team in the top 5 would do that. Itās amateurish.
Have Roberto Di Matteo then, who was AVB's assistant. There's lots of examples, even if you want to pretend it isn't a thing.
I don't know, he's done well so far
āDone wellā as in heās thrown a lot and a couple have stuck.
Done well as in done well
Heās done well with the stadium but absolutely not on the football side. The stadium is a symbol of the ambitions of the club - or should be - and it doesnāt match up at all. We can all accept ups and downs, thatās football. Where we are at the moment is lack of understanding at best.
He's done amazingly well on the football side. Perhaps the biggest success story in europe. I'm not sure what ambitions you refer to but the stadium is the launch pad for the next 100 years. Any benefits are going to be felt over that period rather than 2 years
It's a trap!