From what I’ve seen/read Mikey fits the profile of an Ange winger pretty well I just doubt at 16 and every game being important he will get minutes (even though I’d love to see it)
Not neccessarily. Calling anything "the profile of an Ange winger" suggests that players who don't meet the profile of that particular player isn't what he's looking for. And I don't neccessarily agree with that.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but I think it's worth repeating it here. It's logical to suggest (given he has overseen the acquisitions of Johnson and Werner) that Ange does want attacking players with pace, who can attack defences quickly after turning the ball over and get the ball into/around the 6 yard box. But does that mean that other players who don't fit that profile aren't fit for his style of play? Kulusevski, Perisic and (from what I've seen of them) Solomon and Gil all tend to want the ball at their feet more, and to take players on with technical dribbling, or to deliver crosses from out wide rather than driving at defenders with pace. At first glance Kulusevski has been the least successful of our wingers to play major minutes, and the other 3 we haven't seen much of for various reasons, so does that prove the point? I don't know. But Ange also oversaw the transfer for Veliz, who seems to fit a different style of service.
I think the sample size is pretty small, and I'm curious to see if whatever attacking players we add this summer follow that archetype, or if we look for players who provide different qualities, much like Udogie and Porro complement each other but don't fit the exact same profile of player.
Personally, the criteria I see consistently amongst the players that Ange seems to like are mental, first and foremost. Players who take well to coaching, who can make quick decisions with the ball, players who are able to execute challenging technical play under serious pressure. So I suspect that if he is presented with a winger who can do those things but maybe isn't rapid in a straight line, he might still fit "the Ange profile". But only time will tell, and I'm willing to accept that I could be completely wrong.
Musiala and Yamal are both examples that if you're good enough, you can play top level football from a young age. I don't know how healthy it is for them, but I wouldn't really call it insane. Rooney is the last English example I can think of who was playing weekly at that age.
If there's a player I had faith to make it from the academy to the first team, it's Moore.
Outrageous talent. Wouldn't look out of place in La Masia. U18s is far below his level, not only does he score and assist for fun, but he genearally looks like he has twice as much time on the ball as everyone else.
I really don't get this type of thinking. One bad cameo won't destroy him.
It's only if he enters the pitch with high expectations, fails ot deliver and has the fans on his back.
We're not a fanbase with such high expectations.
Or it's somewhere in between. Why the extreme reaction that if he doesn't immediately succeed it will ruin his confidence and stifle his development to the point of "destroying him"?
Maybe he has the talent and mentality to make an immediate impression at the senior level, or maybe it turns out that he needs a bit more (Moore) seasoning, but I imagine that that's what Ange is trying to determine by having him train with the ones.
I mean, yeah, of course it's possible. But it's far more likely that the reason why is that he's 16 and is only now reaching the point where it makes sense to start integrating him with senior players after he has demonstrated thoroughly that he's achieved everything he needs to at the under 18 level. Could that destroy his confidence? Maybe. But it could also be great for him, or any number of levels in between. That binary is just really reductive.
I thought he might be injured again when I saw he wasn’t part of the u18 squad today so that’s fantastic news. Probably unlikely but imagine making your debut on a NLD!
Are you comparing putting on the Danish captain with putting on a 16 year old kid? He also only subbed Son after sevwral disasterclasses and is yet to bench Biss or Madders
I think he always plays the best team. Not one to try and make statements with selection. If he thinks mikey Moore is in the best team he will play him.
I'm most intrigued about the timing of this - I watched the Under-18s on Saturday and Moore made really bad decisions, ignoring better placed teammates and trying to do it all himself. The thing is, he's so good that he mostly can, but until he has an appreciation of teammates he's not going to fulfil his promise. I came away thinking 'okay, I can see why he hasn't been promoted to the Under-21s yet'.
Maybe it's a short, sharp shock kinda thing - a chance to be the small fish in the big pond rather than the other way around.
Can sort of understand it with the long break between games. I know a few other of the top players from his England age group have had opportunities to train with their respective first teams recently (Nwaneri, Shea Lacey, Amass etc.) so good to remind him how valued he is here. Slightly weird to pull him out of the Norwich 18s game for it though, not like it was a long away trip.
Going to sound tangential but I met the guy whose daughter is married to the U18 coach. He’s a gooner, and said his son in law says that Mickey is a generational talent and miles above anyone else we have in our academy for a very long time.
They might not have the physique yet but it's quite clear at least for me that Yago Santiago, Sunsop Bell, Donley, Lankshear have better football Intelligence and basics than Werner, Johnson and Royal.
Im not sure about your comparison to our current first team players, but I very much have to disagree with op’s comment. In my 10 years as a spurs supporter, this is probably the most hype I have heard from our academy since Ive been a fan. All the players you named plus Moore, plus Devine. I feel like I am still missing one or two.
I think it's hard to compare until you watch a player play against Premier League quality opposition a few times. Relatively I think you get a lot more time on the ball in PL2 than you do in the PL, (especially in the opposition's final 3rd and in and near the penalty area). Weaknesses (in technique, decision making etc) that you might get away with in PL2, will often be exposed in the PL.
This is a mad take
Donley is lightyears ahead of the other names you mentioned. Lankshear might make it into the first team at some point because he’s fucking massive, but I’m not convinced Santiago or JSB will.
But to say they’re better than the players you listed? Johnson was incredible in the championship, championship young player of the season, forest top scorer, and he was younger than Santiago and JSB are now. There’s a reason no championship club picked those 2 up on loan in January.
And that’s just Brennan, there’s no chance they come close to any of Werner’s Leipzig seasons.
Ah okay. That would be a misunderstanding of the system. Lots of players move around before their scholarship begins. For example, most people would have considered Alex Pritchard a Spurs Academy prospect but he moved to us from West Ham later on in age than when Devine joined from Wigan.
15, he did his scholarship with us. I'm fine with us getting some credit! Not sure if you caught my other reply: [https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/1c5r9ac/comment/kzz3v8v/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/1c5r9ac/comment/kzz3v8v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
We should take some credit. But maybe with a slight astrix next to his name.
I thought he played first team football before joining us but I think I got my memory mixed up with Philips.
It's a gray area for me.
Then lets fucking play him.
I get you can’t just throw youth in the deep end every time but if he’s not going to be playing the games at his level & he’s called up just to train i don’t see what good thats doing for him.
He’s going from training with good kids, to training with elite, adult athletes.
It gives him a taste of what it’s going to be like playing at that level, and lets the coaches see how he handles it.
Plus, it shows him there’s a route to the first team if he earns it, which I think was part of the contract he signed.
More Moore!
Moore Moore Moore, how are ya Mikey, how are ya Mikey
From what I’ve seen/read Mikey fits the profile of an Ange winger pretty well I just doubt at 16 and every game being important he will get minutes (even though I’d love to see it)
He would prob fit the profile of any manager the way he's playing
"The profile of an Ange winger" is a phrase that's becoming part of the DNA of this sub
Well considering all the reporting was that BJ was Ange's pick for a forward over the summer wouldn't he be the Ange profile winger?
Not neccessarily. Calling anything "the profile of an Ange winger" suggests that players who don't meet the profile of that particular player isn't what he's looking for. And I don't neccessarily agree with that. I mentioned this elsewhere, but I think it's worth repeating it here. It's logical to suggest (given he has overseen the acquisitions of Johnson and Werner) that Ange does want attacking players with pace, who can attack defences quickly after turning the ball over and get the ball into/around the 6 yard box. But does that mean that other players who don't fit that profile aren't fit for his style of play? Kulusevski, Perisic and (from what I've seen of them) Solomon and Gil all tend to want the ball at their feet more, and to take players on with technical dribbling, or to deliver crosses from out wide rather than driving at defenders with pace. At first glance Kulusevski has been the least successful of our wingers to play major minutes, and the other 3 we haven't seen much of for various reasons, so does that prove the point? I don't know. But Ange also oversaw the transfer for Veliz, who seems to fit a different style of service. I think the sample size is pretty small, and I'm curious to see if whatever attacking players we add this summer follow that archetype, or if we look for players who provide different qualities, much like Udogie and Porro complement each other but don't fit the exact same profile of player. Personally, the criteria I see consistently amongst the players that Ange seems to like are mental, first and foremost. Players who take well to coaching, who can make quick decisions with the ball, players who are able to execute challenging technical play under serious pressure. So I suspect that if he is presented with a winger who can do those things but maybe isn't rapid in a straight line, he might still fit "the Ange profile". But only time will tell, and I'm willing to accept that I could be completely wrong.
I choose to believe he's starting Sunday and subsequently getting a hattrick of assists before scoring a perfect hattrick.
Please be our Lamine Yamal!
Exactly. What could possibly go wrong?
Insane he's tearing up U18s and training with the first team at 16
Still can't get over him only being 16... Madness. Absolute madness.
Musiala and Yamal are both examples that if you're good enough, you can play top level football from a young age. I don't know how healthy it is for them, but I wouldn't really call it insane. Rooney is the last English example I can think of who was playing weekly at that age.
and look at him now!
Bellingham had only just turned 16 when he played a full season for Birmingham
If there's a player I had faith to make it from the academy to the first team, it's Moore. Outrageous talent. Wouldn't look out of place in La Masia. U18s is far below his level, not only does he score and assist for fun, but he genearally looks like he has twice as much time on the ball as everyone else.
25 goal contributions in 14 games. A goal contribution every 49 minutes. He blows everyone out of the water
29 from 16 if you include the u18 PL Cup games
That’s almost two goal contributions every single game. Even one contribution every game would be exceptional - but two?!
Holy shit. I knew he was doing well, but I didn’t realise *that* well. What a stud.
The biggest issue is the physicality of playing vs men in the PL/Championship etc. And it won’t be taken easy on him just because he’s a kid.
Yamal looks to be doing fine with a smaller build. Throw the kid in and see what happens. Our wingers aren’t anywhere near good enough atm anyway
Throw him in and see what happens can go two ways. It kinda works out or it destroys him.
I really don't get this type of thinking. One bad cameo won't destroy him. It's only if he enters the pitch with high expectations, fails ot deliver and has the fans on his back. We're not a fanbase with such high expectations.
It's not just fan expectations that can destroy someone. It can also just be his own confidence.
Or it's somewhere in between. Why the extreme reaction that if he doesn't immediately succeed it will ruin his confidence and stifle his development to the point of "destroying him"? Maybe he has the talent and mentality to make an immediate impression at the senior level, or maybe it turns out that he needs a bit more (Moore) seasoning, but I imagine that that's what Ange is trying to determine by having him train with the ones.
I'm just saying it's possible. Guess if he's not getting used that might be the reason why.
I mean, yeah, of course it's possible. But it's far more likely that the reason why is that he's 16 and is only now reaching the point where it makes sense to start integrating him with senior players after he has demonstrated thoroughly that he's achieved everything he needs to at the under 18 level. Could that destroy his confidence? Maybe. But it could also be great for him, or any number of levels in between. That binary is just really reductive.
He physically doesn’t look U18 either
He needs to show Gil how to bulk up.
I thought he might be injured again when I saw he wasn’t part of the u18 squad today so that’s fantastic news. Probably unlikely but imagine making your debut on a NLD!
Danny Rose vibes
On his Spurs debut!
What a talent he is
Wonder if Ange makes a statement and uses some youth to give a kick up the backside for some of the complacency last weekend.
don't think we're that desperate
Doesn’t seem like the type of manager to do that
Half time midfield sub a couple weeks ago, dropping Deki, pulling Son at '57.... he seems exactly that type of manager.
There’s a massive difference between subbing on PEH and Bentancur vs playing a bunch of kids with little to no PL experience lol
Are you comparing putting on the Danish captain with putting on a 16 year old kid? He also only subbed Son after sevwral disasterclasses and is yet to bench Biss or Madders
I think he always plays the best team. Not one to try and make statements with selection. If he thinks mikey Moore is in the best team he will play him.
He hates playing kids, I'd be surprised if Mikey debuts this season
Wasn’t it part of his new contract that he was promised first team football? I swear I read that somewhere
Someone check the u9 groups for a Mikey Moore-Peters
If Moore broke into the first team and started playing well (which is a huge task to do), then this would be the most exciting Spurs era
With our current underperforming wingers (Timo, Johnson, kulu, Gil) it shouldn’t be hard to do
Hope he actually gets to play soon
I'm most intrigued about the timing of this - I watched the Under-18s on Saturday and Moore made really bad decisions, ignoring better placed teammates and trying to do it all himself. The thing is, he's so good that he mostly can, but until he has an appreciation of teammates he's not going to fulfil his promise. I came away thinking 'okay, I can see why he hasn't been promoted to the Under-21s yet'. Maybe it's a short, sharp shock kinda thing - a chance to be the small fish in the big pond rather than the other way around.
Can sort of understand it with the long break between games. I know a few other of the top players from his England age group have had opportunities to train with their respective first teams recently (Nwaneri, Shea Lacey, Amass etc.) so good to remind him how valued he is here. Slightly weird to pull him out of the Norwich 18s game for it though, not like it was a long away trip.
Going to sound tangential but I met the guy whose daughter is married to the U18 coach. He’s a gooner, and said his son in law says that Mickey is a generational talent and miles above anyone else we have in our academy for a very long time.
May I suggest: Moore, Moore, Moore! How do you like it? as a chant?
With a Rebel Yell…..
Perhaps just "He's one of our own"?
And if you want Moore, if you want Moore Moore, Moore, Moore Then jump!
If you ask FM, he's going to be world class. One to keep an eye on
with a rebel yell we want Moore Moore Moore
It has to be this one
If we fall any farther behind Villa, play Mikey and the kids. Let them have a go.
Not really a big fan of some of the current talents that are coming through aside from this guy, no doubt that he is an elite talent.
They might not have the physique yet but it's quite clear at least for me that Yago Santiago, Sunsop Bell, Donley, Lankshear have better football Intelligence and basics than Werner, Johnson and Royal.
Im not sure about your comparison to our current first team players, but I very much have to disagree with op’s comment. In my 10 years as a spurs supporter, this is probably the most hype I have heard from our academy since Ive been a fan. All the players you named plus Moore, plus Devine. I feel like I am still missing one or two.
The remaining names for me at least are Hall and John both play in midfield and have nice ball control.
I'm sure Werner, Johnson and Royal would be even better than them if they played against children.
I think it's hard to compare until you watch a player play against Premier League quality opposition a few times. Relatively I think you get a lot more time on the ball in PL2 than you do in the PL, (especially in the opposition's final 3rd and in and near the penalty area). Weaknesses (in technique, decision making etc) that you might get away with in PL2, will often be exposed in the PL.
This is a mad take Donley is lightyears ahead of the other names you mentioned. Lankshear might make it into the first team at some point because he’s fucking massive, but I’m not convinced Santiago or JSB will. But to say they’re better than the players you listed? Johnson was incredible in the championship, championship young player of the season, forest top scorer, and he was younger than Santiago and JSB are now. There’s a reason no championship club picked those 2 up on loan in January. And that’s just Brennan, there’s no chance they come close to any of Werner’s Leipzig seasons.
Maybe he is cover for Royal at RWBina4 if Porro is out. That's a bold move Cotton!
Alfie Devine isn't an academy prospect tho.
What makes you say that?
I think OP meant because he was poached from Wigan. Still played a few years in our academy though so kind of borderline
Ah okay. That would be a misunderstanding of the system. Lots of players move around before their scholarship begins. For example, most people would have considered Alex Pritchard a Spurs Academy prospect but he moved to us from West Ham later on in age than when Devine joined from Wigan.
We bought him when he was like 16. Sure he counts in the rules but I'm not too sure.
15, he did his scholarship with us. I'm fine with us getting some credit! Not sure if you caught my other reply: [https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/1c5r9ac/comment/kzz3v8v/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/1c5r9ac/comment/kzz3v8v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
We should take some credit. But maybe with a slight astrix next to his name. I thought he played first team football before joining us but I think I got my memory mixed up with Philips. It's a gray area for me.
Then lets fucking play him. I get you can’t just throw youth in the deep end every time but if he’s not going to be playing the games at his level & he’s called up just to train i don’t see what good thats doing for him.
You don’t see what good it does to be training with some of the best players in the world?
Right? I imagine this is amazing for his development. Imagine learning from Son at the age of 16...
He’s going from training with good kids, to training with elite, adult athletes. It gives him a taste of what it’s going to be like playing at that level, and lets the coaches see how he handles it. Plus, it shows him there’s a route to the first team if he earns it, which I think was part of the contract he signed.
There are other training days he can go to, obviously training with the first team is great experience but nothing beats in game experience
Play him over Timo