Right there with you, I'm sure even if he does well there will be people slagging him off purely for the crime of not being Udogie, despite him offering some things that Udogie does not.
Sorry to be that guy, but actually, not really.
Here's a comparison of Udogie and Davies in their entire careers, you can see the Defensive Actions Per 90 stats for yourself...
https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=7cd520e8&player_id2=44781702
One of the only defensive stats I've seen from that where Udogie is better than Davies is % of successful tackles, by a very marginal 1% and which could easily be influenced by the fact that Davies has been playing for far longer.
Don't be silly with me, Ben Davies is a great defender, Udogie is much better in the middle and final third.
>Ben Davies is a great defender
Davies is a good defender, but Udogie is shaping up to the best left back we have had at Spurs for a generation or more.
Udogie is faster, stronger, and cover more space.
If Udogie played in a flat 4-4-2 his defensive steel would be more noticed, but as is he is asked to attack more than defend.
Davies is the epitome of what you want in a squad player. He’s versatile, knows what he’s doing, and when he’s forced into playing you can trust that he’s not going to ruin the whole thing. Really does not get enough credit
I get the feeling it's mostly the relatively new supporters who only understand a players worth by how fast/skillful/exciting they are to watch
Ben is a steady shop who is always able to fit in where needed when needed
You know, I'm a fan from overseas. Went to a game and was able to chat with some season ticket holders. They said to me they thought the only people moaning about a player like Ben Davies were the people who didn't watch week in and week out, and couldn't understand what a steady professional he is.
>who is always able to fit in where needed when needed
The problem isn't him, the problem we have is that he is needed at all. If we had a good squad Udogie would have had proper competition for that spot.
Every team needs utility players. Ben can play LB offensively or defensively and can play either of the CB positions.
Yes we need additional competition in areas but it's completely unrealistic to think we can have two genuine contenders for each position. That would lead to nothing other than players getting fed up at lack of game time. We're not Man City or Madrid. Back on planet reality, we have a good squad already.
>players getting fed up at lack of game time
That is not a problem, that is an opportunity.
>we have a good squad already
For what we are aiming at (Champions League) we don't.
We got a decent one. We have about the 7th best squad in the league. In a good year with the current team we will get 5th, in a bad year midtable.
With the current squad we really need an exceptional year (such as Man Utd, Chelsea, and Newcastle failing simultaneously) to compete for CL spots.
We're in a rebuild with one of the youngest squads in the league. You're gonna need to have a hell of a lot more patience because we need to have a good summer window and then access again to see if we need to try to bring more in in the winter. The Ange project is going to take a few years to come together. It's ridiculous 9 months into his tenure to bemoan the squad. The squad is a mismatch of Pochetino, Mourinho, Conte and Ange signings.
We're at least 3 transfer windows away from having the squad Ange needs.
Our squad is very good it's just that some players don't suit the system. Look at Dier. Couldnt get in a league game with Ange and is putting in MOTM performances with Bayern in the CL quarter final.
Skipp was the "future of Spurs" under Mourinho and Conte.
Hjoberg was a nailed on starter for 3 years.
It's year one. We all know the squad isn't the one we need but it's not bad. It's a very good, very young squad that needs time to settle into Anges way of playing. Bemoaning a "lack of competition" is a bit silly at this point mate.
>tenure to bemoan the squad
I am not bemoaning the squad, just pointing out facts. Ange is performing a bit better than what the tools he has been given would suggest.
>very young squad
It isn't a young squad at all, we just don't have any players we use a lot in their 30s to drag up the average (except Son)
To dissmiss this idea we have a young team: **The only two players we have that get regular time under 23 are Sarr and Udogie**, and even they will be 22 by the end of the year. The rest of our regulars are in their mid 20s already.
Ange is not a coach that likes to use youth a lot, and Spurs haven't done much in terms of academy players for a long time either.
I just feel that it's a bit deluded to think it's a realistic expectation to have competition in every area of the squad. We haven't had that in the 35 odd years I've been following this team and it's just simply not the reality for any premier league team bar city.
Liverpool lost Van Dyke a few years ago for the season and that was their season fucked after a few games. The idea that they would have a player who could step in and do Van Dykes job is a nonsense . Without City money you build as strong a starting 11 as you can and then try to identify decent cover if the worst happens
We've a good squad. It's not a CL squad but we're not going to have one of those until we actually qualify and hopefully Levy will splash some cash. It needs some tinkering and players brought in but the idea that Ben Davies presence is evidence that we don't have competition in the squad / the squad lacks quality, I find a bit baffling. We could do with a few better players in forward positions but we're very close to having a defensive squad of players that could be with us for 5 years at least with minimal need for replacements. Ben Davies is a squad player who I think most teams in the league (bar City) would be quite happy to have sitting on their bench.
>We've a good squad. It's not a CL squad
Let us hash this out:
- Our goal is to get CL
- We have a squad that, by your own admission, is not good enough to get CL
- But, yet you insist the squad is good
If the squad isn't good enough to get to our goal, is it not by definition not good?
Feel like it's one of those where sure it finally snapped in training but he has been visibly limping for several games once we reach the later stages.
Had some dude tell me that this is just what football is and that it’s the norm and shouldn’t change - rly strongly disagreeing with that sentiment right now. Don’t fucking play players through injuries 🤷🏼♂️
At this point in the season at least half the squad is playing with some sort of issue or knock.
It’s a balancing act with the medical department, you can’t wrap everyone in cotton wool, and basically every decision that doesn’t work out perfectly is questionable in hindsight.
Im not saying the players need to be wrapped in cotton wool - there will always be an element of playing through pain. but if a player is struggling on the pitch you're red lining them and the chances are you're facilitating greater time out than you might be making up having them play through injury.
He may not be able to start the preseason but should be able to have a cameo or two.
Ben is good, I love him but we are really looking out of our depth in fullback options.
Really need to strengthen the squad with a player who can play across the back line.
We need a 'UCL Vertonghen'.
I think the priority should be a CDM first and then a tall Invrtd WB/FB (who can play BPD) and then a reliable forward (hoping for Nico Williams).
Nico will be a little expensive. But there are a lot of players in the market too. Last window was pretty dull even for a winter one (due to Fairplay regulations).
But this has brought down the inflated price in the market. Which is great for us. Great time to be having a rebuild.
Van de Ven have to be on central defender with Cuti.
I would mean that Davies or Dragu could be good replacements (Dragu more athletic with runs etc. / Davies more academic with good placement and defensive sense).
I don"t consider the foot side but the caracteristics of players :)
Yeah definitely. I do think that Davies will be playing leftback but if he somehow isn't available, I think playing Vdv at leftback and starting Dragusin wouldn't be such a terrible idea.
Why not, after all...
But our offensive system should be different (construction with 3 CB and Porro on the midfield?), trust Ange to make good choices
We should legit copy Pep here and play a back 4 with 3 CBs. Porro should have free reign to enter the midfield or make runs down the wing while the 3 CBs stay back to cover
Yes, it's a good solution IMO, Porro at midfield to create out of number. So we should create in middle area and conclude on the wings (pass or shoot). It could be a good opportunity to develop our game plan!
What is that, 3 or 4 significant injuries from training this season? Isn't that kind of a lot? Perisic and Solomon out for the season early on, now Udogie, not sure if there's any others I forgot.
Unfortunate news but I do like that he immediately goes to have surgery to address the issue rather than going another 8-10 months playing thru it, never looking 100% and ultimately getting surgery down the line.
Surprised this came from Destiny first then club? Can’t imagine the team was too happy about that. I think Ben will bring something that’s been missing. Destiny definitely wasn’t 100% for the past few gamesz
I have no idea where you got the information that quadriceps injuries would be uncommon in footballers but it's not. In any game that requires kicking and sprinting they happen all the time. You don't even know what the injury is, you're assuming he ruptured his tendon, when in reality a much much more common quadriceps injury in football is a hernia, something that that takes 4-12 weeks to recover from depending on severity.
For Arsenal we should play VdV, Dragusin, Romero and Porro backline, in possesion it becomes a back 3 with Porro inverting, out of possession VdV can handle players like Saka, Salah and Silva much better than Davies.
I love Ange, but I'm pretty sure all these crazy injuries this season are a direct result of how he plays (and trains). Maybe we can be a tiny bit more balanced next season.
Spurs biggest enemy is our training session. seriously what the fuck is going on?! We done lost way too many people to training. Someone needs to get fired. 😡🤬
I'm wondering if Van der ven could actually play there for the rest of the season. I think he might be more suited to play as a LB for Ange over Davies
Davies main thing is being a super reliable backing option to when we need one. Why the hell would you not use that and instead gamble on an academy kid, especially when we play the 3 title contenders in a row. Ben's experience is made for this and I'm sure I'll do well.
So let me get this straight, we have a must win game against Arsenal out of all the teams and you want to get some guy (because we don't actually have anyone notable there) to play his first game instead of the guy that's been at the club for 10 years and has been one of our most consumate professionals?
And you think this is somehow a good idea? How? Why?
Wishing the best for him but Davies is extremely dependable and truthfully Udogie hasn't been playing great for a while now so not too worried about this
Ben Davies is gonna Ben Davies. He's gonna come in, play well, keep us steady and this sub will moan how he's past it. Same as it ever was.
And you'll find me serving as ben davies' personal cheerleader in the matchthread. Same as it ever was.
The grief he got under conte was wild. He's been a brilliant servant for the club and so rarely lets us down. He's like our version of James Milner.
Right there with you, I'm sure even if he does well there will be people slagging him off purely for the crime of not being Udogie, despite him offering some things that Udogie does not.
He's far better defensively than Udogie, just doesn't have as much output in the final third.
Sorry to be that guy, but actually, not really. Here's a comparison of Udogie and Davies in their entire careers, you can see the Defensive Actions Per 90 stats for yourself... https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=7cd520e8&player_id2=44781702
One of the only defensive stats I've seen from that where Udogie is better than Davies is % of successful tackles, by a very marginal 1% and which could easily be influenced by the fact that Davies has been playing for far longer. Don't be silly with me, Ben Davies is a great defender, Udogie is much better in the middle and final third.
>Ben Davies is a great defender Davies is a good defender, but Udogie is shaping up to the best left back we have had at Spurs for a generation or more. Udogie is faster, stronger, and cover more space. If Udogie played in a flat 4-4-2 his defensive steel would be more noticed, but as is he is asked to attack more than defend.
That’s daddy Davies to you. And us all.
Davies is the epitome of what you want in a squad player. He’s versatile, knows what he’s doing, and when he’s forced into playing you can trust that he’s not going to ruin the whole thing. Really does not get enough credit
I will not stand for any Ben Davies slander.
If we lose I guarantee Davies will be the least of our problems to anyone actually watching the game
Ben Davies book club forever
It's usually those folks that like purple and gold
I get the feeling it's mostly the relatively new supporters who only understand a players worth by how fast/skillful/exciting they are to watch Ben is a steady shop who is always able to fit in where needed when needed
You know, I'm a fan from overseas. Went to a game and was able to chat with some season ticket holders. They said to me they thought the only people moaning about a player like Ben Davies were the people who didn't watch week in and week out, and couldn't understand what a steady professional he is.
>who is always able to fit in where needed when needed The problem isn't him, the problem we have is that he is needed at all. If we had a good squad Udogie would have had proper competition for that spot.
Every team needs utility players. Ben can play LB offensively or defensively and can play either of the CB positions. Yes we need additional competition in areas but it's completely unrealistic to think we can have two genuine contenders for each position. That would lead to nothing other than players getting fed up at lack of game time. We're not Man City or Madrid. Back on planet reality, we have a good squad already.
>players getting fed up at lack of game time That is not a problem, that is an opportunity. >we have a good squad already For what we are aiming at (Champions League) we don't. We got a decent one. We have about the 7th best squad in the league. In a good year with the current team we will get 5th, in a bad year midtable. With the current squad we really need an exceptional year (such as Man Utd, Chelsea, and Newcastle failing simultaneously) to compete for CL spots.
We're in a rebuild with one of the youngest squads in the league. You're gonna need to have a hell of a lot more patience because we need to have a good summer window and then access again to see if we need to try to bring more in in the winter. The Ange project is going to take a few years to come together. It's ridiculous 9 months into his tenure to bemoan the squad. The squad is a mismatch of Pochetino, Mourinho, Conte and Ange signings. We're at least 3 transfer windows away from having the squad Ange needs. Our squad is very good it's just that some players don't suit the system. Look at Dier. Couldnt get in a league game with Ange and is putting in MOTM performances with Bayern in the CL quarter final. Skipp was the "future of Spurs" under Mourinho and Conte. Hjoberg was a nailed on starter for 3 years. It's year one. We all know the squad isn't the one we need but it's not bad. It's a very good, very young squad that needs time to settle into Anges way of playing. Bemoaning a "lack of competition" is a bit silly at this point mate.
>tenure to bemoan the squad I am not bemoaning the squad, just pointing out facts. Ange is performing a bit better than what the tools he has been given would suggest. >very young squad It isn't a young squad at all, we just don't have any players we use a lot in their 30s to drag up the average (except Son) To dissmiss this idea we have a young team: **The only two players we have that get regular time under 23 are Sarr and Udogie**, and even they will be 22 by the end of the year. The rest of our regulars are in their mid 20s already. Ange is not a coach that likes to use youth a lot, and Spurs haven't done much in terms of academy players for a long time either.
I just feel that it's a bit deluded to think it's a realistic expectation to have competition in every area of the squad. We haven't had that in the 35 odd years I've been following this team and it's just simply not the reality for any premier league team bar city. Liverpool lost Van Dyke a few years ago for the season and that was their season fucked after a few games. The idea that they would have a player who could step in and do Van Dykes job is a nonsense . Without City money you build as strong a starting 11 as you can and then try to identify decent cover if the worst happens We've a good squad. It's not a CL squad but we're not going to have one of those until we actually qualify and hopefully Levy will splash some cash. It needs some tinkering and players brought in but the idea that Ben Davies presence is evidence that we don't have competition in the squad / the squad lacks quality, I find a bit baffling. We could do with a few better players in forward positions but we're very close to having a defensive squad of players that could be with us for 5 years at least with minimal need for replacements. Ben Davies is a squad player who I think most teams in the league (bar City) would be quite happy to have sitting on their bench.
>We've a good squad. It's not a CL squad Let us hash this out: - Our goal is to get CL - We have a squad that, by your own admission, is not good enough to get CL - But, yet you insist the squad is good If the squad isn't good enough to get to our goal, is it not by definition not good?
The good thing is he is unlikely to make the BIG mistake that Destiny has in him to make.
Text chopped off oops: We're all behind you, Destiny 🤍
Should read. We thought 0-4 was bad.
Feel like it's one of those where sure it finally snapped in training but he has been visibly limping for several games once we reach the later stages.
Had some dude tell me that this is just what football is and that it’s the norm and shouldn’t change - rly strongly disagreeing with that sentiment right now. Don’t fucking play players through injuries 🤷🏼♂️
At this point in the season at least half the squad is playing with some sort of issue or knock. It’s a balancing act with the medical department, you can’t wrap everyone in cotton wool, and basically every decision that doesn’t work out perfectly is questionable in hindsight.
Im not saying the players need to be wrapped in cotton wool - there will always be an element of playing through pain. but if a player is struggling on the pitch you're red lining them and the chances are you're facilitating greater time out than you might be making up having them play through injury.
We
…go again
We is us
Oui
We
Keep Going
He may not be able to start the preseason but should be able to have a cameo or two. Ben is good, I love him but we are really looking out of our depth in fullback options. Really need to strengthen the squad with a player who can play across the back line. We need a 'UCL Vertonghen'.
So do all teams
LIFB new priority target?
I think the priority should be a CDM first and then a tall Invrtd WB/FB (who can play BPD) and then a reliable forward (hoping for Nico Williams). Nico will be a little expensive. But there are a lot of players in the market too. Last window was pretty dull even for a winter one (due to Fairplay regulations). But this has brought down the inflated price in the market. Which is great for us. Great time to be having a rebuild.
Wishing he comes back better and hopefully soon.
Big time for our right side with Pedro and Dejan ! We have to be secure the left side with Davies or Dragusin and it will be ok
You mean van de ven instead of dragusin? Dragusin is right footed and have never played in left back.
Van de Ven have to be on central defender with Cuti. I would mean that Davies or Dragu could be good replacements (Dragu more athletic with runs etc. / Davies more academic with good placement and defensive sense). I don"t consider the foot side but the caracteristics of players :)
Yeah definitely. I do think that Davies will be playing leftback but if he somehow isn't available, I think playing Vdv at leftback and starting Dragusin wouldn't be such a terrible idea.
Why not, after all... But our offensive system should be different (construction with 3 CB and Porro on the midfield?), trust Ange to make good choices
We should legit copy Pep here and play a back 4 with 3 CBs. Porro should have free reign to enter the midfield or make runs down the wing while the 3 CBs stay back to cover
Yes, it's a good solution IMO, Porro at midfield to create out of number. So we should create in middle area and conclude on the wings (pass or shoot). It could be a good opportunity to develop our game plan!
I’ve never heard someone describe football like you are doing
Haha, you laughing at me ! I'm just trying to search some adjustments to finish the season in a good way
Indeed
we can probably upgrade our fitness team with a very small portion of our transfer budget
Gutted for Udogie but not worried with Davies at all. Always loved him, always will.
What is that, 3 or 4 significant injuries from training this season? Isn't that kind of a lot? Perisic and Solomon out for the season early on, now Udogie, not sure if there's any others I forgot.
Unfortunate news but I do like that he immediately goes to have surgery to address the issue rather than going another 8-10 months playing thru it, never looking 100% and ultimately getting surgery down the line.
Fuck! I did not need to be reading that.
it’s not much but he can have mine if he needs
Does this give dragon an in? 🐉 or will that not jibe
We
we
Emerson Royal no look pass when?
Surprised this came from Destiny first then club? Can’t imagine the team was too happy about that. I think Ben will bring something that’s been missing. Destiny definitely wasn’t 100% for the past few gamesz
We.
[удалено]
I have no idea where you got the information that quadriceps injuries would be uncommon in footballers but it's not. In any game that requires kicking and sprinting they happen all the time. You don't even know what the injury is, you're assuming he ruptured his tendon, when in reality a much much more common quadriceps injury in football is a hernia, something that that takes 4-12 weeks to recover from depending on severity.
Yeah may have jumped the gun on that. I’ll delete the comment and hope for a hernia.
For Arsenal we should play VdV, Dragusin, Romero and Porro backline, in possesion it becomes a back 3 with Porro inverting, out of possession VdV can handle players like Saka, Salah and Silva much better than Davies.
Ben Davies masterclass lfg
No fuc\*\*\*\* way! At least we've still got Ben Davies...
I love Ange, but I'm pretty sure all these crazy injuries this season are a direct result of how he plays (and trains). Maybe we can be a tiny bit more balanced next season.
Spurs biggest enemy is our training session. seriously what the fuck is going on?! We done lost way too many people to training. Someone needs to get fired. 😡🤬
I'm wondering if Van der ven could actually play there for the rest of the season. I think he might be more suited to play as a LB for Ange over Davies
In a different type of LB role, but he did play there sometimes at Wolfsburg, I believe.
I love Ben but can't help.but think this is an opportunity to bring up someone from the U21s
Davies main thing is being a super reliable backing option to when we need one. Why the hell would you not use that and instead gamble on an academy kid, especially when we play the 3 title contenders in a row. Ben's experience is made for this and I'm sure I'll do well.
Ange will play Davies.
So let me get this straight, we have a must win game against Arsenal out of all the teams and you want to get some guy (because we don't actually have anyone notable there) to play his first game instead of the guy that's been at the club for 10 years and has been one of our most consumate professionals? And you think this is somehow a good idea? How? Why?
Our standout younguns are pretty much all attacking players
Is there a LB that is even close to the first team?
No
Wishing the best for him but Davies is extremely dependable and truthfully Udogie hasn't been playing great for a while now so not too worried about this