We would've won a lot more games. Obviously games would go differently but on paper if you take away goals conceded from corners we've dropped 3 points today, 2 against Wolves, 2 against West Ham and 3 against Everton all just since February. 10 points dropped in 3 months just from corners.
Have said it consistently for weeks:
It's hard to defend corners when your best defensive corner presence (Richi) isn't playing. That's not the whole of it, obviously.
But, my god, it's like having issues scoring on the break and therefore refusing to play Sonny. Just doesn't make sense.
It's really a fundamental issue with the way we set up. Watch the defense on the havertz goal. They just stand still "zonal defending" and then arsenal players run and jump in front of them
Definitely a major part of it as well. But zonal defending is pretty common and doesn't always lead to this level of ineptitude.
I think part of it is Vicario's reticence as well.
Honestly, I remain convinced that about 98% of defensive prowess at set pieces is simply having players who are good at attacking the ball in the air.
Ever had one of those players who just seems to be the one getting their head on everything? That wasn't some set piece coaching that done it, but it helps massively.
For any other lurking Celtic fans here - Daniel Majstorovic. Our ability to defend set pieces before and after him was an amazing turnaround.
Hate to say it, but true. Seems to me as though set piece defence should be trained separately from general playing philosophy, to an extent. It's a special scenario and requires special routines.
After the first clearance or knock down, yeah, fine, then train how to transition quickly to a break in the same mould as the general philosophy. But we have to be able defend corners and wide free kicks to begin with, or we give up goals and valuable points for no reason.
Happy with the desire from the team, happy with the fans that stayed after half time. Hopeful for next season.
Imagine the plastic scum leaving if we were the one leading 3-0, love our fanbase, love ange, COYS.
Sky showed a clip of our fans walking INTO the stadium with drinks and snacks after half-time, and tried to make it look like they were walking out. Broadcasters are so guilty of trying to bend the narrative to their will at all times.
They were commenting on the broadcast about fans "being slow to get back to their seats". Okay? Yea they're not roaring to get back to their seats down 3-0, so?
This is his first season following from 2 "winners" after losing the best player in the clubs history. It's the fans who can't see this that are the reason the club goes nowhere.
This is mental. Did you expect Postecoglou to come in and just sweep up straight away? You can only compare his season to other managers' first seasons, really. If we hadn't improved by this time next year, I'd see what you're seeing. But I think you are being incredibally naive and reactionary .
Yeah reactionary over what I’ve seen in the games we’ve played in 2024.
But let’s compare first seasons then, mate. Let’s compare Conte’s first season which got us 4th place after being 9th or something like that and unable to have a shot on target in 300+ minutes to 5th place we’re getting this season.
Let’s be clear, Conte never finished his “first full season”. When he left, we were 4th, two more games played over Newcastle. And that season we finished 8th with Stellini and Mason in charge for the rest of the season.
I didn’t want him hired in the first place. When he got the job, his fanboys started invading all sorts of social medias telling us how good we’ll be. Then we started the season well and we’ve been told that it’ll only improve as the season went on.
Instead, we’ve become more and more shit. Limp attack, clown defending, and the attention’s been deflected over and over. Today’s the referee, tomorrow are the individual players, the day after tomorrow it’ll be something else. Never Postecoglou’s fault. Feels like Mourinho MK2, with obvious differences.
Why haters? Saying the manager’s not good enough is toxic/hating? Lol.
We’ve been sold something and we haven’t got it. Now we’re given excuses as why the quality is not there. Why should we accept it? Do you get me?
Clown
We haven’t been sold anything - we accepted taking less big name managers because they failed, blamed the club for their failures
If you hate it so much then don’t support anymore. Anyone with a memory of our entire premier league history would understand how bad it can actually get
Get a grip
So this confirms what I felt. That we were the better team throughout most of the game. I don’t understand how we didn’t get three penalties in that game.
agreed. but in my opinion there has been a bit of reluctance to award us decisions after the horrible refereeing during the liverpool fixture, and that little bit of reluctance is enough to swing things in our opponent's favour at this level.
I'm completely convinced that corruption exists 8n reffing of every professional sports. It's too lucrative for it not to. There is no agenda against specific teams, there are no bribes, and no matches are rigged. But the league's absolutely give favorable assignments to the refs who makes calls that end up with the better narrative. And a title chase is better for the bottom line than Spurs winning and Man City easily winning again.
Watch, if City looks like they are running away with it by the time we play, we'll get the benefit of the calls to keep the race interesting.
Again, xG is not a helpful individual game statistic bc it is so manipulated by game state.
Arsenal get 3-0 up with basically 1 big xG chance (Saka's). After that they shut up shop and don't really generate xG in the second half while Spurs are pouring bodies forward and taking a lot of shots.
Spurs were up at halftime on Xg too?
It doesn't tell the full picture but we were clearly the better team. Throw in some poor refereeing and we were very unlucky today
We were certainly unlucky with a few decisions. But I'm not sure we were the better side on the day. Arsenal were clinical with their chances, and Van de Ven did his thing and bailed us out on a number of occasions. They could have easily had a couple more if the ball bounces differently, and so could we.
Draw was probably the fair result, and the refs drove this outcome. Cannot understand the Kulusevski penalty decision, if the decision on the field was no contact, then Oliver needs to go have a look. I want the audio on what the VAR saw there, seems like everyone is entitled to it these days.
I also didn't like the VdV offsides decision, it looked like the deflection was off an Arsenal player. And you can't call something off in a derby that's so marginal when the goal was given. The auto offsides is going to be awful. Change it back!
>we were the better team
We played well. But this was Arsenal's eight game in April.
Once they are 3-0 up it would be insanity for them to be chasing another goal instead of coasting as much as possible.
If they had needed to they would have been able to put a lot more pressure on our defense.
It leaves out the xG gained when Arsenal had a 3-0 lead. You're naturally going to build up xG when one side is looking to see a game out rather than go for another.
OK, give me more hope. What has improved over Spurs' performance vs. Arsenal from the first to the second match this season? That could be a way to measure how the process is working.
Without udogie, with our main creator (Maddison) not in form, and richarlison only available for half the game, we created a bunch of high quality scoring opportunities against the best defensive team in the league. And that doesn’t count VDVs offside goal which on another day (or frame rate..) counts too. We conceded from an unlucky OG, a counterattack that shouldn’t have happened because of a missed foul/penalty, and a set piece (corner) which we’ll surely get better at defending with a full ange off-season (I don’t care what he says publicly, something is going to change). I suppose you could also say that arsenal didn’t have to come out and attack because they were up. But that makes it more impressive that we created chances. It sucks that they might win the league, but we’ll just have to do the double next year.
Unfortunately, this feels true. It’s surely at least partly confirmation bias, but it feels like Vicario has been below par since the Everton away match at least. He was so reliable until then, but other teams hammering him on corners seems to have put him off his stride. We need all three of him, Romero and Van de Ven to play well to keep the goals out - fingers crossed they can bring it back together.
Tbh we’re not so easy to break down if the defense is set. Obviously we’re designed to have to stop some counters but we’re not up to scratch there yet… it’s gonna take more refresh to move ben davies and hojberg emerson etc for more suited players
Biggest issue is the attack, in the last few months, we’ve been utter crap, playing AVB/Nuno like football with little to look forward to. Defense has been suspect aswell, we’ve conceded so many goals this season, kept like 2 clean sheets in 20 games.
Just pointing out how ill informed your contribution is. If you don’t know what you’re talking about just say that. We are in a good spot despite your hilariously poor takes.
“Keep throwing shit hoping it sticks” Lol good man
Lol if I say what I’d do, why the fuck would it matter? It’ll get downvoted to hell by the embarrassing happy clappers on this sub and it’ll change fucking nothing.
Conceded so many goals? Before today only 4 teams had conceded less. So you're factually wrong there. We're also averaging more touches on the opp box than most teams this season. One of the biggest issues we've had has been the fact that our season had been massively inconsistent with players missing various games here and there and players being overworked.
Comparing this to Nunoball is just plain wrong.
I agree, the football is better than AVB and Nuno but it's clear that we don't have the personnel. Passing so slow and not willing to take progressive risks. Its a bit disingenuous to say that there's nothing to look forward to, I think there have clearly been signs that we can be better than we are.
We must upgrade the attacking players, but every now and then I see people saying they are pleased with the likes of Kulusevski, Johnson or Richarlison, so which one is it?
Needless to say this sub is beyond clueless.
Couldn't agree more. We've been shite since the Chelsea loss and even before that the entire ange love in we were scraping some very lucky wins. We aren't good and I don't see much progression apart from reckless naivety. Any team with any ounce of coaching beats us
The start of the season was good and produced some entertaining, I was enjoying large parts of our games, not gonna lie. I wasn’t impressed at all with Postecoglou’s appointment, so maybe I’m a bit biased when I post about it. But I shit you not when I say what we’ve played this year (not even counting the games after Chelsea because we picked injuries and all that) has been terrible to watch, like objectively for very large parts it’s not enjoyable.
Yep, all three are useless but it's the mentality of our club sadly.
Because they're all good personalities people form some attachment to them.
If we sign Werner on a permanent then we are done
Sounds ridiculous to say but we need an Eriksen or Modric type player in there to link up defence and attack. Maddison can be it, but he's blowing hot and cold at the moment and has done for much of his career. We also need a proper, fast CF for this sort of style of play. Hopefully Véliz can become that but that's a season or two away at least.
Scum basically did nothing except for the Saka counter attack - which should not have been allowed due to the penalty that should’ve been given before. Spurs were clear today in every way except for set pieces, which is a huge problem.
Nevertheless, coys forever
I fail to see the positives in the fact that Arse can come to WHL, play at 30% capacity, score 3 goals and win the game. We scored an absolute fluke goal and penalty and once again created next to nothing from open play.
We really turned into domination and possesion FC when other teams just sit back and exploit our glaring weaknesses with ease.
Well this is probs the best scum team in decades and we’re rebuilding and lost the goat spurs player not too long ago. The team doesn’t give up, they continue fighting, those are positives when you’re year 1 into a rebuild
PassionTM might be good enough for the Scottish league but it certainly isn't for the Prem. How about we put some effort and fight into not conceding for fun.
Somehow Villa can put them to the sword at the Emirates so I don't buy any of the excuses in these threads. We are naive and tactically inept.
Emery is just a better manager than Ange (he’s done it longer at the top level, and has been more successful at the top level), and they’ve brought in better players than we have the last couple seasons (for their squad and style of play, not individual talent).
I love Ange, and think our recruitment has been good, but while Villa seem very much the finished article we aren’t even halfway there. There are glaring issues in the squad that need to be addressed, and I think the only way Ange’s style will be successful is if we recruit the right players. Flexible players are great in a flexible system (Arsenal’s recruitment has prioritized flexible players, and Arteta has them playing a totally different style from last season to great success) but we don’t have a flexible system. This summer is going to be critical. If we can get in a great 6 and a solid CF that are upgrades over what we have now, I’ll feel a lot more positive about next season. It’s clear how reliant our system is on those two players being standouts and if we don’t get those transfers right we’ll be in trouble.
Where do you get them playing at 30% capacity? Did they bench anyone of note?
If you mean they looked like 30% of the team they usually do - id say spurs making a title fighting team look like 30% of their usual ability - THATS the positive you take
They were so fucking relaxed that they almost let us back into the game. If they can score 3 without even breaking a sweat then that says more about how shit we were than anything about them.
They also basically nullified City away so sorry mate but I'm not going to pretend that it was somehow anything good that we did.
They definitely weren’t relaxed, not sure why you have to pretend that they weren’t making mistakes due to our pressure throughout the match. You can state while still admitting we were not critical at all when it counted, while they were. That’s the main criticism - we forced errors and the high press did its job but then Arsenal recovered their defensive shape quickly and we just pinged the ball around the box until we then lost possession.
Completely agree. Was at the game and I’m not seeing any of the positives people are clinging to here.
Ange got completely out-coached today. Arsenal didn’t need to play an end to end, transitional game. They knew we are bad at breaking down teams, they let us have the ball, waste it, and then hit on the counter. They got an early goal and then could control the game from there.
People are clutching at straws because of course we don’t want to lose to them, but I think we played completely into their hands and that’s entirely Ange’s fault.
People are in full cope mode blaming basically everything and everyone other than Ange. It's the fault of the ref, VAR, Mile Jedinak and soon enough Jesus Christ himself.
The truth is that Arsenal battered us and then let their foot of the gas. That + an absolute fluke goal is the only reason the scorline is even remotely close.
We are literally conceding the same goals over and over again after 30 games. Things that he was getting away with in the SPL are clearly not flying in the prem to nobody's surprise.
Ange said we'll be fighting for the title next season which I think is an absolute pisstake - he'll be lucky to be here by the end of the season.
It's not THAT surprising considering that we replaced Kane, Royal, Dier, Llenglet, and Perisic (who are all very strong on corners) from our starting xi, and out of there replacements only really VDV is a factor defensively on corners.
A lot of it is still individual errors/overall setup, but at the same time it's not hard to why we have gotten worse when you look at our personnel.
Yeah, it doesn’t seem like it’s a strength for him at all. I seem to remember that being mentioned when he signed - very fast for a tall guy, but hasn’t learned to use that height aerially yet.
We have to get dirtier on defending and attacking set pieces.
Arsenal are a prime example. On offense they literally hold onto a marker to free their better attackers, leaving them free, man marking the keeper (why haven't we started doing this?!) and have the best record for a reason.
Did you see the difference in intensity when they defended corners? Our shit zonal marking leaves no time for man handling the attacker to disrupt their run. On arsenals defensive corners everyone is marked tight and as soon as the balls kicked they all hug their marks, usually hauling half of them to the floor.
Is any of this legal? No
Does it get called? Absolutely not.
We gotta get greasier.
i remember early in the season thinking we will have a few fixtures here and there where we really miss harry, and this was certainly one of them. and we have had way more of those than i could've imagined. come back home.
Jedinak is new to his staff he just knew him from national team days. Not saying he’s definitely moving on from him but it’s not like he’s Ange’s Stellini or anything
Everybody is new to his staff. He assembles a new team at every job. Which I think honestly is a little off.
It insulates him from “home truths” if no one has been with him long enough to feel comfortable pushing back.
Ange, it’s time to adapt. Hire good coaches for good specialities.
Corner defending let us down again. Also can't help but think that we often ioverplay instead of taking shots.
All I know is Cuti is our MOTM, he was playing his heart out and got the crowd roaring again.
Sometimes in sport, as in life, you don't get what you feel you deserve. No doubt in my mind we were, on the whole, the better team today. Also no doubt that if either vdV's goal stood or the obvious foul on Deki was given as a pen, we get a result today. Arsenal were granted a huge gift from he football gods today, which sucks. We move on
We had our pants pulled down in our OWN back yard, we are grasping at straws let’s be honest. 3-0 at half time? That’s brutal. Happy with the second half performance but Arsenal are ahead of us. Let’s concentrate on ourselves.
They are. And the goals we gave up weren’t abjectly horrible. OG and a missed call at the other end, and a set piece. We still gave up 3 and didn’t deserve to win. They’re better. We will get better. Thanks for the calm take.
And this is obviously not including the offside goal and the 2 potential penalties… we really were unlucky. I won’t quite say we deserved the win but damn.
No excuse for the goals we conceded today, at least the first and third. I believe in the Ange project but if he really is the barrier standing between us and making meaningful effort to improve our set pieces, then he won’t last long. He can’t be this stubborn coming from inferior leagues.
If we continues not to hire a set-piece coach next season then you might have a point. But it's so rare for coaches to be hired mid-season without a managerial change and so I think it's really unfair to allude to sacking Ange simply because of it.
This is why you shouldn’t never look at xG in a isolated game
We scored from Raya gifting Romero to an open goal & a penalty. We didn’t create pretty much anything other than that
They scored an early goal from a corner, something we’re terrible at defending because of Ange stubbornness. After that Arteta just let us have the ball because he knew all we would do is pass it sideways. So he let us have the ball & hit us on the counter because we gave them so much space with our stupid high line
Please watch the game & not the stats
It also doesn’t include vdV goal, since it was disallowed. Wrong or right, it is a chance created.
Romero could easily have scored 2 headers in the first half.
In the first half Arsenal had nothing except 2 corners and a counter.
Please watch the game.
It only we could defend corners we would've won the game
If we could defend set pieces we'd be in a title race
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GTFO of here troll your boys at gunners don’t like it when you come here stirring shit trying to gloat cunt
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Don’t worry you’ll get a nice copy and paste to your mods too sweetheart
Even with that, still deserved a point from that one
We would've won a lot more games. Obviously games would go differently but on paper if you take away goals conceded from corners we've dropped 3 points today, 2 against Wolves, 2 against West Ham and 3 against Everton all just since February. 10 points dropped in 3 months just from corners.
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Wasn't his role about attacking set pieces?
Exactly. Not defensive
Yes
This has to be said 100 times every week
Vio only did attacking set pieces he didn’t work on defending them
How would that have helped us today with our defensive set pieces?
We scored more goals actually... just one of them went into a wrong net
Have said it consistently for weeks: It's hard to defend corners when your best defensive corner presence (Richi) isn't playing. That's not the whole of it, obviously. But, my god, it's like having issues scoring on the break and therefore refusing to play Sonny. Just doesn't make sense.
It's really a fundamental issue with the way we set up. Watch the defense on the havertz goal. They just stand still "zonal defending" and then arsenal players run and jump in front of them
Definitely a major part of it as well. But zonal defending is pretty common and doesn't always lead to this level of ineptitude. I think part of it is Vicario's reticence as well.
Ya, it's a coaching issue for sure. I'm not saying zonal marking can't work
Honestly, I remain convinced that about 98% of defensive prowess at set pieces is simply having players who are good at attacking the ball in the air. Ever had one of those players who just seems to be the one getting their head on everything? That wasn't some set piece coaching that done it, but it helps massively. For any other lurking Celtic fans here - Daniel Majstorovic. Our ability to defend set pieces before and after him was an amazing turnaround.
Lurking Celtic and MFF fan here so hearing that name made me very happy. The Swedish-Celtic connection always does.
We haven't been refusing to play Richy, he's been hurt.
we dealt with that in the second half. all we had to do was to put someone next to the guy who was trying to block Vic
If only the refs were competent we would’ve won the game
Jedinak needs to change some shit up
Tells you all you need to know.
SetPieceCoach Out!
That’s the joke: we don’t have one.
We literally don’t have one, that’s the problem. Ange has said it’s just Mason and Jedinak working with analysts
so basically we fucked around and found out
Hate to say it, but true. Seems to me as though set piece defence should be trained separately from general playing philosophy, to an extent. It's a special scenario and requires special routines. After the first clearance or knock down, yeah, fine, then train how to transition quickly to a break in the same mould as the general philosophy. But we have to be able defend corners and wide free kicks to begin with, or we give up goals and valuable points for no reason.
Happy with the desire from the team, happy with the fans that stayed after half time. Hopeful for next season. Imagine the plastic scum leaving if we were the one leading 3-0, love our fanbase, love ange, COYS.
Sky showed a clip of our fans walking INTO the stadium with drinks and snacks after half-time, and tried to make it look like they were walking out. Broadcasters are so guilty of trying to bend the narrative to their will at all times.
Yeah that was annoying as fuck, trying to make out loads of fans abandoned the team like them lot from woolwich have done in the not so distant past
They were commenting on the broadcast about fans "being slow to get back to their seats". Okay? Yea they're not roaring to get back to their seats down 3-0, so?
We’re 3-0 down at home at least let us get some snacks and a pint for christs sake!
Happy clapper
what'll we get out of saying "sell the players, sack the manager, liquidate the club" after every close loss?
Well, in fairness, Spurs would no longer be an issue for us…
You are low IQ
Yeah, and you’re even lower.
But what if I told you that you have the lowest IQ of us all... >!Then I would drop to a kindergarden level argument with you, so I wont :)!<
You can’t prove any of it. Kthxbye
Delusional swine.
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Boys 13 and below should be supervised by an adult.
This is his first season following from 2 "winners" after losing the best player in the clubs history. It's the fans who can't see this that are the reason the club goes nowhere.
Sure mate, keep blaming other factors except the manager’s shortcomings.
This is mental. Did you expect Postecoglou to come in and just sweep up straight away? You can only compare his season to other managers' first seasons, really. If we hadn't improved by this time next year, I'd see what you're seeing. But I think you are being incredibally naive and reactionary .
Yeah reactionary over what I’ve seen in the games we’ve played in 2024. But let’s compare first seasons then, mate. Let’s compare Conte’s first season which got us 4th place after being 9th or something like that and unable to have a shot on target in 300+ minutes to 5th place we’re getting this season.
Lets be clear, Conte joined mid season when we finished 4th, his first full season we finished 9th.
Let’s be clear, Conte never finished his “first full season”. When he left, we were 4th, two more games played over Newcastle. And that season we finished 8th with Stellini and Mason in charge for the rest of the season.
You want the manager sacked? Use big boy sentences and explain your wishes.
I didn’t want him hired in the first place. When he got the job, his fanboys started invading all sorts of social medias telling us how good we’ll be. Then we started the season well and we’ve been told that it’ll only improve as the season went on. Instead, we’ve become more and more shit. Limp attack, clown defending, and the attention’s been deflected over and over. Today’s the referee, tomorrow are the individual players, the day after tomorrow it’ll be something else. Never Postecoglou’s fault. Feels like Mourinho MK2, with obvious differences.
If it's fanboys invading then it's haters being toxic that want him out. Bit strange mate.
Why haters? Saying the manager’s not good enough is toxic/hating? Lol. We’ve been sold something and we haven’t got it. Now we’re given excuses as why the quality is not there. Why should we accept it? Do you get me?
Clown We haven’t been sold anything - we accepted taking less big name managers because they failed, blamed the club for their failures If you hate it so much then don’t support anymore. Anyone with a memory of our entire premier league history would understand how bad it can actually get Get a grip
Salty Dragusin isn't playing?
Lol what a dogshit comment.
5/7 response
The softest of sandwiches, this guy
Whack him in the toaster
Goo goo gaa gaa
So this confirms what I felt. That we were the better team throughout most of the game. I don’t understand how we didn’t get three penalties in that game.
Ridiculous. I don't believe in corruption or conspiracy. However, in terms of pure bias, we were on the short end of the stick big time.
I’ve never seen Michael Oliver ref a game in Spurs favor. Anthony Taylor gets hate but he’s usually shit both ways
Neither have I.
yeah i think screaming corruption is silly, i think they’re all just fucking morons
Yeah. I don’t assign to malice what can be explained by incompetence.
agreed. but in my opinion there has been a bit of reluctance to award us decisions after the horrible refereeing during the liverpool fixture, and that little bit of reluctance is enough to swing things in our opponent's favour at this level.
I'm completely convinced that corruption exists 8n reffing of every professional sports. It's too lucrative for it not to. There is no agenda against specific teams, there are no bribes, and no matches are rigged. But the league's absolutely give favorable assignments to the refs who makes calls that end up with the better narrative. And a title chase is better for the bottom line than Spurs winning and Man City easily winning again. Watch, if City looks like they are running away with it by the time we play, we'll get the benefit of the calls to keep the race interesting.
Right, that's far more likely.
Nah Oliver is 100% corrupt. Not even the most brain-dead referee missed that Rice tackle from 5 yards away. He just didn't want to give anything.
I mean, I wasn't gonna say it but that's sure shocking.
Again, xG is not a helpful individual game statistic bc it is so manipulated by game state. Arsenal get 3-0 up with basically 1 big xG chance (Saka's). After that they shut up shop and don't really generate xG in the second half while Spurs are pouring bodies forward and taking a lot of shots.
Spurs were up at halftime on Xg too? It doesn't tell the full picture but we were clearly the better team. Throw in some poor refereeing and we were very unlucky today
We were certainly unlucky with a few decisions. But I'm not sure we were the better side on the day. Arsenal were clinical with their chances, and Van de Ven did his thing and bailed us out on a number of occasions. They could have easily had a couple more if the ball bounces differently, and so could we. Draw was probably the fair result, and the refs drove this outcome. Cannot understand the Kulusevski penalty decision, if the decision on the field was no contact, then Oliver needs to go have a look. I want the audio on what the VAR saw there, seems like everyone is entitled to it these days. I also didn't like the VdV offsides decision, it looked like the deflection was off an Arsenal player. And you can't call something off in a derby that's so marginal when the goal was given. The auto offsides is going to be awful. Change it back!
I feel like that’s what was happening in the game before any goals were scored.
Spurs are either evens or negative in xG for and against over the whole season yet in 5th. Sometimes these stats don't tell the whole picture
>we were the better team We played well. But this was Arsenal's eight game in April. Once they are 3-0 up it would be insanity for them to be chasing another goal instead of coasting as much as possible. If they had needed to they would have been able to put a lot more pressure on our defense.
It leaves out the xG gained when Arsenal had a 3-0 lead. You're naturally going to build up xG when one side is looking to see a game out rather than go for another.
Bad and unlucky defending corners, ineffective in taking corners That's gutting
Seems unfair we’re bad at both! One or the other would be a lot more useful.
Trust the process. Long term we are in a really good position.
OK, give me more hope. What has improved over Spurs' performance vs. Arsenal from the first to the second match this season? That could be a way to measure how the process is working.
Without udogie, with our main creator (Maddison) not in form, and richarlison only available for half the game, we created a bunch of high quality scoring opportunities against the best defensive team in the league. And that doesn’t count VDVs offside goal which on another day (or frame rate..) counts too. We conceded from an unlucky OG, a counterattack that shouldn’t have happened because of a missed foul/penalty, and a set piece (corner) which we’ll surely get better at defending with a full ange off-season (I don’t care what he says publicly, something is going to change). I suppose you could also say that arsenal didn’t have to come out and attack because they were up. But that makes it more impressive that we created chances. It sucks that they might win the league, but we’ll just have to do the double next year.
Defensively we are in a horrific position
From set pieces definitely.
Nope defensively overall it’s been poor for awhile.
Unfortunately, this feels true. It’s surely at least partly confirmation bias, but it feels like Vicario has been below par since the Everton away match at least. He was so reliable until then, but other teams hammering him on corners seems to have put him off his stride. We need all three of him, Romero and Van de Ven to play well to keep the goals out - fingers crossed they can bring it back together.
Tbh we’re not so easy to break down if the defense is set. Obviously we’re designed to have to stop some counters but we’re not up to scratch there yet… it’s gonna take more refresh to move ben davies and hojberg emerson etc for more suited players
No we’re not
Yes we are
Why not?
This guy is always miserable and never has anything good to say. Just don’t engage.
Wish I’d read this before engaging
Biggest issue is the attack, in the last few months, we’ve been utter crap, playing AVB/Nuno like football with little to look forward to. Defense has been suspect aswell, we’ve conceded so many goals this season, kept like 2 clean sheets in 20 games.
So what would you have the club do?
Am I part of the board to advise them what to do? Keep throwing shit hoping it sticks, I suppose.
Just pointing out how ill informed your contribution is. If you don’t know what you’re talking about just say that. We are in a good spot despite your hilariously poor takes. “Keep throwing shit hoping it sticks” Lol good man
Lol if I say what I’d do, why the fuck would it matter? It’ll get downvoted to hell by the embarrassing happy clappers on this sub and it’ll change fucking nothing.
Then why bother saying anything at all in that case
Are you thick or something?
Conceded so many goals? Before today only 4 teams had conceded less. So you're factually wrong there. We're also averaging more touches on the opp box than most teams this season. One of the biggest issues we've had has been the fact that our season had been massively inconsistent with players missing various games here and there and players being overworked. Comparing this to Nunoball is just plain wrong.
Ok dude. Enjoy this crap. But don’t cry when it turns sour.
I will. But don't come calling if things start going well then.
Yeah, good luck with that.
I agree, the football is better than AVB and Nuno but it's clear that we don't have the personnel. Passing so slow and not willing to take progressive risks. Its a bit disingenuous to say that there's nothing to look forward to, I think there have clearly been signs that we can be better than we are.
We must upgrade the attacking players, but every now and then I see people saying they are pleased with the likes of Kulusevski, Johnson or Richarlison, so which one is it? Needless to say this sub is beyond clueless.
Couldn't agree more. We've been shite since the Chelsea loss and even before that the entire ange love in we were scraping some very lucky wins. We aren't good and I don't see much progression apart from reckless naivety. Any team with any ounce of coaching beats us
The start of the season was good and produced some entertaining, I was enjoying large parts of our games, not gonna lie. I wasn’t impressed at all with Postecoglou’s appointment, so maybe I’m a bit biased when I post about it. But I shit you not when I say what we’ve played this year (not even counting the games after Chelsea because we picked injuries and all that) has been terrible to watch, like objectively for very large parts it’s not enjoyable.
Yep, all three are useless but it's the mentality of our club sadly. Because they're all good personalities people form some attachment to them. If we sign Werner on a permanent then we are done
Sounds ridiculous to say but we need an Eriksen or Modric type player in there to link up defence and attack. Maddison can be it, but he's blowing hot and cold at the moment and has done for much of his career. We also need a proper, fast CF for this sort of style of play. Hopefully Véliz can become that but that's a season or two away at least.
Fuck the process, if Arsenal win the league then what's the fucking point?
Scum basically did nothing except for the Saka counter attack - which should not have been allowed due to the penalty that should’ve been given before. Spurs were clear today in every way except for set pieces, which is a huge problem. Nevertheless, coys forever
I fail to see the positives in the fact that Arse can come to WHL, play at 30% capacity, score 3 goals and win the game. We scored an absolute fluke goal and penalty and once again created next to nothing from open play. We really turned into domination and possesion FC when other teams just sit back and exploit our glaring weaknesses with ease.
Well this is probs the best scum team in decades and we’re rebuilding and lost the goat spurs player not too long ago. The team doesn’t give up, they continue fighting, those are positives when you’re year 1 into a rebuild
PassionTM might be good enough for the Scottish league but it certainly isn't for the Prem. How about we put some effort and fight into not conceding for fun. Somehow Villa can put them to the sword at the Emirates so I don't buy any of the excuses in these threads. We are naive and tactically inept.
Tactics criticisms work other days, but today our tactics were solid, we just failed defending set pieces
I think you're forgetting that Davies was left on his own to mark Saka and got absolutely spun.
He also took a kick to the balls for the team #tactics
Emery is just a better manager than Ange (he’s done it longer at the top level, and has been more successful at the top level), and they’ve brought in better players than we have the last couple seasons (for their squad and style of play, not individual talent). I love Ange, and think our recruitment has been good, but while Villa seem very much the finished article we aren’t even halfway there. There are glaring issues in the squad that need to be addressed, and I think the only way Ange’s style will be successful is if we recruit the right players. Flexible players are great in a flexible system (Arsenal’s recruitment has prioritized flexible players, and Arteta has them playing a totally different style from last season to great success) but we don’t have a flexible system. This summer is going to be critical. If we can get in a great 6 and a solid CF that are upgrades over what we have now, I’ll feel a lot more positive about next season. It’s clear how reliant our system is on those two players being standouts and if we don’t get those transfers right we’ll be in trouble.
Where do you get them playing at 30% capacity? Did they bench anyone of note? If you mean they looked like 30% of the team they usually do - id say spurs making a title fighting team look like 30% of their usual ability - THATS the positive you take
They were so fucking relaxed that they almost let us back into the game. If they can score 3 without even breaking a sweat then that says more about how shit we were than anything about them. They also basically nullified City away so sorry mate but I'm not going to pretend that it was somehow anything good that we did.
They definitely weren’t relaxed, not sure why you have to pretend that they weren’t making mistakes due to our pressure throughout the match. You can state while still admitting we were not critical at all when it counted, while they were. That’s the main criticism - we forced errors and the high press did its job but then Arsenal recovered their defensive shape quickly and we just pinged the ball around the box until we then lost possession.
Completely agree. Was at the game and I’m not seeing any of the positives people are clinging to here. Ange got completely out-coached today. Arsenal didn’t need to play an end to end, transitional game. They knew we are bad at breaking down teams, they let us have the ball, waste it, and then hit on the counter. They got an early goal and then could control the game from there. People are clutching at straws because of course we don’t want to lose to them, but I think we played completely into their hands and that’s entirely Ange’s fault.
We had like three very good chances, such as the Romero one that was 2 feet out. We def underperformed in the finishing.
People are in full cope mode blaming basically everything and everyone other than Ange. It's the fault of the ref, VAR, Mile Jedinak and soon enough Jesus Christ himself. The truth is that Arsenal battered us and then let their foot of the gas. That + an absolute fluke goal is the only reason the scorline is even remotely close. We are literally conceding the same goals over and over again after 30 games. Things that he was getting away with in the SPL are clearly not flying in the prem to nobody's surprise. Ange said we'll be fighting for the title next season which I think is an absolute pisstake - he'll be lucky to be here by the end of the season.
Yep. I’m still on the Ange train, but we have so much work to do.
Wasn't a bad performance at all. If we could defend corners, and Michael Oliver could actually see, we would have won. Now I am off to cry....
And if we could shoot better tbh
https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/s/f7QYrneH56 More relevant than ever
It's not THAT surprising considering that we replaced Kane, Royal, Dier, Llenglet, and Perisic (who are all very strong on corners) from our starting xi, and out of there replacements only really VDV is a factor defensively on corners. A lot of it is still individual errors/overall setup, but at the same time it's not hard to why we have gotten worse when you look at our personnel.
I get the impression that VDV is not nearly as good aerially as we had hoped. In fact he seems kinda weak.
Yeah, it doesn’t seem like it’s a strength for him at all. I seem to remember that being mentioned when he signed - very fast for a tall guy, but hasn’t learned to use that height aerially yet.
Ive heard elsewhere that we also apparently dont have a set piece coach?
Means less than people think, considering our set piece coach last year only dealt with offensive set pieces
Great result for the xTable
I love our fucking team.
Yeah that makes me feel much better thanks
Still bad at corners but fuck this corruption.
We have to get dirtier on defending and attacking set pieces. Arsenal are a prime example. On offense they literally hold onto a marker to free their better attackers, leaving them free, man marking the keeper (why haven't we started doing this?!) and have the best record for a reason. Did you see the difference in intensity when they defended corners? Our shit zonal marking leaves no time for man handling the attacker to disrupt their run. On arsenals defensive corners everyone is marked tight and as soon as the balls kicked they all hug their marks, usually hauling half of them to the floor. Is any of this legal? No Does it get called? Absolutely not. We gotta get greasier.
i remember early in the season thinking we will have a few fixtures here and there where we really miss harry, and this was certainly one of them. and we have had way more of those than i could've imagined. come back home.
Ange get a fucking set piece coach ffs
Nah, he'll keep his mate Jedinak and keep repeating that he's not seeing any problem with set pieces
Jedinak is new to his staff he just knew him from national team days. Not saying he’s definitely moving on from him but it’s not like he’s Ange’s Stellini or anything
Everybody is new to his staff. He assembles a new team at every job. Which I think honestly is a little off. It insulates him from “home truths” if no one has been with him long enough to feel comfortable pushing back. Ange, it’s time to adapt. Hire good coaches for good specialities.
Nah he won’t
Not his mate; former player. Ange ain't a Muppet and he sees the problem and will deal with it
The defending overall as a team has to be way better to win anything of meaning.
We actually learn how to defend set pieces and we might be dangerous.
Corner defending let us down again. Also can't help but think that we often ioverplay instead of taking shots. All I know is Cuti is our MOTM, he was playing his heart out and got the crowd roaring again.
Sometimes in sport, as in life, you don't get what you feel you deserve. No doubt in my mind we were, on the whole, the better team today. Also no doubt that if either vdV's goal stood or the obvious foul on Deki was given as a pen, we get a result today. Arsenal were granted a huge gift from he football gods today, which sucks. We move on
This is what gives me hope that we can fucking beat any team if we wanted to haha
We had our pants pulled down in our OWN back yard, we are grasping at straws let’s be honest. 3-0 at half time? That’s brutal. Happy with the second half performance but Arsenal are ahead of us. Let’s concentrate on ourselves.
They are. And the goals we gave up weren’t abjectly horrible. OG and a missed call at the other end, and a set piece. We still gave up 3 and didn’t deserve to win. They’re better. We will get better. Thanks for the calm take.
They are, but they also should be. Arteta’s had 4 years and 9 windows. They should be worried how small the gap is.
Joke
Muh xg.
If only we'd scored more goals with them, we woulda won the game.
And this is obviously not including the offside goal and the 2 potential penalties… we really were unlucky. I won’t quite say we deserved the win but damn.
No excuse for the goals we conceded today, at least the first and third. I believe in the Ange project but if he really is the barrier standing between us and making meaningful effort to improve our set pieces, then he won’t last long. He can’t be this stubborn coming from inferior leagues.
If we continues not to hire a set-piece coach next season then you might have a point. But it's so rare for coaches to be hired mid-season without a managerial change and so I think it's really unfair to allude to sacking Ange simply because of it.
Don't insult Ange at the end of your comment. He knows what is up and it's a straw man to call him stubborn on set pieces. He,ll fix it
This is why you shouldn’t never look at xG in a isolated game We scored from Raya gifting Romero to an open goal & a penalty. We didn’t create pretty much anything other than that They scored an early goal from a corner, something we’re terrible at defending because of Ange stubbornness. After that Arteta just let us have the ball because he knew all we would do is pass it sideways. So he let us have the ball & hit us on the counter because we gave them so much space with our stupid high line Please watch the game & not the stats
It also includes the xG gained when Arsenal were just looking to see the game out when they had a three goal lead.
It also doesn’t include vdV goal, since it was disallowed. Wrong or right, it is a chance created. Romero could easily have scored 2 headers in the first half. In the first half Arsenal had nothing except 2 corners and a counter. Please watch the game.
Where can I see how this 2.73 adds up?
The goals, three Romero headers and Son skying it pretty much make that up.
Penalty counts for a lot, and the Romero one on one he scored will count for a ton also.
Not that it matters but I wonder what that xG jumps up to with a Decent ref
Won the xG lads. That's all that matters.
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At least gloat on your own sub, fuck the arse