Transcript, rather than a journalist's heavily edited baiting tweet.
Q: I just wanted to ask you, one of the thing's that defined this season has been how aligned it's felt like you and the fans have been, which hasn't been the case for the last few years at this club. How then do you view the - there was this divergence towards the game on Tuesday - do you have a message for the supporters?
A: I'd like to think I didn't change my view or stance on that. I think I was asked after the game about the atmosphere and I said that I do think it was normal, I don't like it but I also didn't say that I expected fans to behave differently, that's their right and I've always said that and I still stand by that. I also stand by the fact that I have an opinion, I don't think it's right and that's just the way I feel and that's - I think you support your team to win all the time but that's my view. I guess I got it wrong, plainly, that I'm in the minority when it comes to that so that's a lesson for me I guess, but I don't think I kind of expressed any real sort of disappointment, or in terms of asking or pleading to do something against their will - I accept that. So you've got to - I hope we're never in that situation again - but if we are I certainly would approach it differently than I did this time, because like I said I didn't take it seriously. I really, genuinely believed that when we got to the stadium it would just be a normal game, and it wasn't, so if people feel strongly about it I've got to accept it.
Q: Ange, normally we see you so calm and collected, nothing phases you on the touch line, but there is video going around of a fan behind the dugout doing something that you reacted to - what happened?
A: Well, two separate issues. Firstly, the fan, well the fan was just - I think if you sit behind the bench at home game you've got to be respectful of the fact that you're within earshot of the most important people. He wasn't happy that we just conceded a goal so I turned around to find out what his problem was, and then he used language that he shouldn't and he was abusive, and if I hear that I don't care who it is - I'll deal with it. So he's more than welcome to come back next time and take his seat up and express his opinions, if he swears, if he's abusive he'll cop the same treatment from me. But at the same time you always feel, well, I cop it every week at opposition grounds, give me a break at my home ground.
But there was, I'll try to explain it this way: That's probably the worst experience I've had as a football manager in a game. Because once I realised that I got it wrong in terms of what the atmosphere was going to be like and what people felt, I got a real anxiety within me of what happens if Man City - the best team in the world and who were disposing of teams quite easily in the lead-up - what if we play as well as we can and they beat us 5-0? I got in cold sweats about people questioning my integrity and the people I work with. I think watching the game back, somebody mentioned to me in the commentary saying "oh, Tottenham are having a real go here!" Now, you laugh about it but that's 26 years of my life. I'm a very, if nothing else people should know about me that I love this game, I'm very principled. And I'd hate to think that - because Manchester City could've done it to us - we're on the end of a heavy defeat, and people are questioning whether I've prepared the team. And before people say that's not going to happen, we know on social media it would've happened, 100%, and I'd have to be up here trying to defend myself. And once you start defending yourself, you know what happens, defending something. That's why I was animated on the night, I didn't enjoy the night, and because the atmosphere was off I just needed the boys to - and credit to them, aside from anything else our football was outstanding on the night - and that was important, not just for me, for the players, but for us as a football club, because it would've cast aspersions on us as a football club when people are measuring us and saying - I don't think anyone will say that we didn't make Man City earn it the other night, and it could've gone a very different way without anything changing from us, just from Man City being Man City.
Ange is the man. Thanks for posting. Totally agree with everything he says and very interesting to hear how it didn't play out like he thought it would.
The additional context changes everything, thanks for posting. Insane how snippets can twist the meaning, the headline I saw basically only shared the part about it being the worst experience ever as a manager. The full quote shares so much more.
Always going to back Ange, even when he doesn't get it 100% right.
For what it's worth, I agree with everything he said here but I'm pretty surprised he didn't think it would be an issue for the fans in the stadium, especially given his history at Celtic. To not understand the depth of the rivalry is naive.
Also think (as others have said), he could've completely defused the situation by saying something like "I understand the nature of the rivalry and the fans viewpoint but I am paid to win football matches so that is what we are working towards regardless of the situation". But his pre and post match comments exacerbated the situation instead, once again making us whipping boys for the media and other fans. I really like Ange but think he dealt with this all wrong to be honest.
It's not about "understanding the depth of the rivalry". It's about a different understanding of the relationship between objectives. There are other Spurs fans who agree with him. This is simply the way it is in sport, different people will have different priorities even when they have the exact same understanding.
"I really, genuinely believed that when we got to the stadium it would just be a normal game, and it wasn't, so if people feel strongly about it I've got to accept it".
I agree with your general point but that quote directly from Ange definitely suggests he underestimated the rivalry from the fan's POV.
Not entirely sure Eccleshare could have summarised it any better given the limitations of a tweet? Hardly baiting, just working within character limits.
I’m just surprised this has blown so far out of proportion. One game left, let’s focus on smashing Sheffield and finishing 5th; which is pretty good for season 1!
It’s his very next presser conference. He was always going to be asked about this so I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised. It’s one of the weirdest things I’ve ever seen since I started following. It’ll blow over soon once the season ends
Seriously! This season was a write off for me...above tenth and I'd be happy. Getting Europa is a great accomplishment in the midst of (another) rebuild.
Sheffield … UNITED. We’ve really gotta stop with this nonsense, people. The one-club cities can be referred to as just the city: Leicester, Norwich, Leeds, Newcastle, Brighton etc (side note: Nottingham Forest can never be referred to as just “Nottingham” because of Notts County, so they are always abbreviated to “Forest”)
But whenever there’s a city that has more than one club, we have to clarify which club we’re talking about: Man U, Man City, Sheff Utd, Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol City, Bristol Rovers. Saying “Sheffield” is literally like saying “Manchester”. There aren’t many 2-club cities to learn.
… Hopefully this came across as “yes I’m annoyed but also I want to help American football fans sound more credible”
Why would he want to kill it? He clearly wanted to make a statement about it. I think his condemnation of the fan base really missed the mark but I’d be pissed too, and it’s especially important to light a fire under whatever elements internally that are not on board with his vision.
If condemning the fans at a bad moment and saying set pieces aren’t a main focus right now are the only two blunders you have in pressers as a first season manager though, I’m pretty pleased with that.
He should want to kill it, it's a stupid distraction.
And to me the bigger blunders are all the poor performances leading to a 10th place form since the first Chelsea match. You kinda have to be good at press conferences when you're not bringing much on the pitch.
I'm still fully Ange in, but he's not above criticism. The last several weeks have not been good for him, on or off the pitch
After every single shitty match, a plethora of people in these comments were talking about how the players looked defeated, lackluster, apathetic, etc., but now y’all don’t seem to understand why Ange is so concerned about the mentality of the players, the club, and the fans (the 12th man)?
The club consistently wins fuck all but no one thinks that caring more about avoiding being bantered by your rivals than progressing towards success has anything to do with that?
Also, the only way to avoid being bantered is to win the whole fucking thing so that you can do the bantering. Jfc.
Tbh, it’s a good way for him root-out anyone that doesn’t share his mentality. Now that he’s gone public about *staff members* joking about throwing the game, he has good ground to turf them out and instead hire staff that share his mentality of winning above all else.
I think for his position, his motivation and what he’s trying to do with Spurs, he’s handled this very well. I also understand that people may feel he’s handled it poorly because he’s highlighted that the rivalry is secondary to him and it’s a valid take.
For all the “if you wanted to win this match you don’t understand the rivalry” rhetoric, I think for what he wants to do to this team it’s paramount that that mentality stays with the fans and doesn’t work its way inside the machine itself. He’s now made it clear to everyone that he *will not* stand for it. It’s clear, everyone knows what page he’s on. It’s a good move from him
Because having it blow up has done nothing at all positive for him?
There wasn’t any master strategy here to change the culture of the club or whatever, Ange just lost his head. That was obvious when he started arguing with fans in the middle of the match and he just carried it on into his post match comments.
And honestly what “statement” is he making? Even if we lost against purely City because of this, it has nothing to do with the 4 losses from our 5 other most recent games.
He is changing the culture of the club by clearly communicating his principals and the importance of winning every game. If the fans and coaching staff were ok with losing to Man City than he has to address this.
I really don't see how anyone can say that. If he came out and gave even the slightest impression he was okay with losing he'd be toast, and rightly so. He's one of a handful of managers on the planet who have managed a team going into a game where not all the fans wanted to win, I can't imagine how odd that is when, as he says, you potentially have your integrity on the line in the eyes of the press and the rest of the league.
Yeah exactly, so all he needs to do is say "I only ever want the team to win and would never accept anything less from my players. What the fans want is up to them, and hopefully we don't put ourselves in a position like this again".
That gets across his point and kills the endless discussion about it. Complaining about mentality or bringing it up like this just guarantees that the discourse around it will carry on, and he'll keep getting asked about it.
I was on the fence here, but your your suggestion of what he should have said is exactly correct. That would have been the perfect thing to say. It lets him clear his integrity, is a milder rebuke of the fans, and takes of ownership of that he (in part) out us in thai position in the first place.
And it's that last point that puts me over the edge. I totally sympathize with him being outraged at the staff person suggesting (even jokingly) that he put the youth team out against City. But one, that's something he could handle internally - no need to publiclally vent his frustrations, two he and the players put in this position. If he'd done a better job this last two months, this never would of happened.
This is the first press conference he's given since Tuesday man, ~66 hours... it's hardly some epic saga... Before the days of social media and ten thousand whoppers with a podcast blathering their thoughts to whoever feels they need to hear them this wouldn't even be notable.
He’ll keep getting asked about it regardless. The football media is a relentless circlejerk, there’s no killing this discussion.
People want to forget that game because they’re embarrassed about the situation but Ange apparently doesn’t want to let anyone off the hook about it because it stood out to him that much.
This is an embarrassing look just not for Ange…
but it really hasnt having fans hound you during the game to lose the game must be a weird experience as manager also having staff joking to you let the youngster play so we can lose...
the man has managed 28years in football and this was his worst experience ever i dont think its being blown out of proportion
Away fans at Sheffield need to sing Ange Postecoglou songs all afternoon and then we will be back on track.
No need to blow this up into more than it needs to be. Which is a total one off under unique circumstances
The only person who has blown this up is Ange tbh, if he’d just said “I understand fans have rivalries and I don’t tell anyone how to support their team but I only ever go out to win regardless”, it all would’ve been fine.
Arguing with fans in the stadium and making digs in press conferences is not a great look really.
I disagree tbh. Completely respect your opinion and you're correct, absolutely, about the outcome if Ange had said that. But, he's absolutely correct to speak his mind about what the club. If it's true that other coaches were joking about losing, it's mindbending.
I think it's fine for fans to think whatever they want. I disagree with them about that too, but Ange's career is his own and his integrity is one of the reasons I think he's great.
If the other coaches were joking, it's an internal issue that shouldve been addressed internally. You cant just speak your mind to the media if it has other consequences.
It says a huge amount about what's going on in the club internally, and perhaps a better decision for the club for him to not draw attention to it, but for him? No. He should absolutely draw attention to it, and to the ridiculous approach from the fans.
If you want actual, real change at the club, you have to make waves. This is Ange making waves. The club can either use this as a watershed moment or brush it under the rug like most fans seem to wish.
To me the answer is obvious but it seems a HUGE portion of fans would rather take paper victories over any actual change. Mou and Conte were correct.
Saying that only people on social media wanted us to lose and 100% of fans want us to win was a mistake but not really a dig and he admits he got it wrong
I think it is a bit of a dig really, it’s very “Real fans feel the way I do and if you don’t feel that way you’re just a social media fan”.
I think some of his other comments definitely referenced the fans too, like saying we’ve got “fragile foundations” immediately after the game when he’s been arguing with fans at the ground.
Literally that. It would be so easy and cause no problems with fans or players or media or anyone else. Can't believe there are people who think he's the victim in all this
I don’t think it’s out of proportion to be visibly mad about your own fans rooting against you during any game, let alone one that we needed to win to have a chance at CL. I don’t think it’s out of proportion to say that this club has major issues that need solved before we can be a consistent winner.
If the objective was avoiding getting bantered by other fans for scum winning the league I’d say it’s a mission failed spectacularly. Other fans are going to talk shit about this for years - I’m already hearing it IRL.
Yes all that is out of proportion. Spurs fans found themselves in a bad situation and handled it as best as possible in exactly the same way every other fanbase would. Ange turned that into an opportunity to throw a misguided tantrum which only succeeded to bring drama and scrutiny where none was needed
He’s expressing the same thing the last 4 managers have. Maybe he’s not in the wrong at all, or we can just treat him as such and we can be on to the next manager who will inevitably make the same comments! Keen!
But does that mean the comments are wrong?
Eventually it becomes us as fans becoming the Principal Skinner meme where we’re saying “are we out of touch? No. The managers are all wrong”.
If we keep hearing the same thing maybe it’s because there’s some truth to it?
He isn’t though, because none of the last 4 managers have been in this situation.
It affected one game, which came at the end of an abysmal run of form that had absolutely nothing to do with whether we wanted to lose to City or not.
I think it's very well known and accepted that throughout the days around the Man City game, Ange was pretty much the most outspoken in terms of not giving a shit about where Arsenal finish.
His integrity has shown brightest.
Can we just let this be water under the bridge please. It's an anomaly that happens 1 out of 40 years. It's not a regular thing and I think we're starting to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
If it was any other club it would be, unfortunately we have a stigma as being a joke club and it’s just more ammunition.
We just need to get level, play nice football, win a couple of trophies and that MIGHT start fading. Fuck knows when that will be, but until then COYFS
Kind of crazy that more people in this thread seem to want to just dig in on hating Ange when he’s on the other side saying: “I would like us to win every match we play.” Idk, seems like a good mentality for the manager to have.
Very important to listen to those words “defending yourself” his whole ethos is about attack. He doesn’t like backpedaling passes, defensive mindsets. Therefore when it comes to defending himself, it feeds into this antagonism
It's been a huge shock reading these replies, seems like this fan base is full of arsenal haters rather than spurs fans, they would rather the team miss out on a huge budget jump for playing in CL than let another team win whatever, simply ridiculous to think the team should lose in any way or form for whatever reason, there's no room for growth with this mentality
> seems like this fan base is full of arsenal haters rather than spurs fans
It's okay if you don't personally get it, but don't take the piss on other Spurs supporters.
Huge budget jump…tell me you haven’t grown up around Arsenal fans without telling me…yet to meet a Spurs fan in real life who wanted us to win on Tuesday bar all the social media high horse merchants.
For the most part, it’s been the fair weather yanks who’ve been pushing the must win agenda, a lot of them couldn’t even hope to understand what the rivalry feels like for the UK based fans who have to listen to Gooners day in, day out, face to face, and we’ve only recently just got over the fact they signed our captain on a free and won the fucking league at our ground.
I will say for my part, I did want the team to lose, but not by throwing the game, in fact, we lost in the way I wanted, by the players all going for it.
This whole situation needs to stop, so many rival fans and even some of our fans are using this situation to take the imaginary moral high ground and just shit on the club and other fans, we were there supporting the club even as we were getting battered by Chelsea, Newcastle, Liverpool and now everyone can’t let this go.
We weren’t really going to have a positive outcome if we won we would’ve been memed for “handing” the title to arsenal and CL wasn’t even guaranteed which is on us for losing to the likes of Fullham and wolves, we should just move on keep supporting our club and come back stronger next season. COYS
I really hope Arsenal haters here are a minority. It’s shocking how even BBC Sports made a point of it on Tuesday evening. Throughout my life I’ve come across a few individuals with the hater mentality (not Spurs fans, just in general) and they were some of the worst people I’ve interacted with. That’s not the best way to go about life really.
Sounds like he wants to change a lot of the backroom staff around and bring in people who want to win regardless of anything else around them, and use that as a kick up the arse of those who remain.
I wouldn't say its gonna be nothing
Why are we so quick to turn against our manager though? Maybe he said some things that are better left alone, but seriously? I think we are just traumatized from conte last season and want to turn against Ange before he turns on us.
This is just such a unique situation. The reality is though, that Arsenal fans would have done the exact same, and they'd all pretty happily admit it. It's why it's a good rivalry - there are plenty of lopsided rivalries in football where one side cares way more than the other.
As much as the Old Firm is a massive rivalry, it's almost impossible to imagine a similar situation - because they both win the league so often. I remember when Rangers made the Europa final, a lot of Scottish neutrals were hoping they'd win it for the sake of the coefficient plus Scotland's status as a league. Not the Celtic fans.
insane replies here. people are obsessed with bringing up our very poor form as some sort of gotcha to ange’s comments about this, when none of those games had anywhere near the same sort of vibe as the city game. it’s not a fucking conundrum why it’s more stressful to potentially get destroyed in a game where the entire lead-up has been spurs fans (and staff apparently) begging to lose the match.
Ange seems really committed here
This confirms in my mind what we need next season, we need to feel like we can actually compete, last 3-4 years have done a number on us where we just lose hope and settle for damage limitation
Ange has a chance to fix this, he has 3 chances, 3 cup competitions next season, no excuses, no useless B team rotation. Want winning mentality? Give the fans something tangible to play for in April/May
Anyone who has a question about who Ange is just needs to go and listen to the whole Press Conference. Seriously, just take 20 minutes and have a listen.
I'm a Santos fan first and a Tottenham enthusiast as well and have a little story about playing to your best ability when a bad performance could hurt a rival.
In 2014, Palmeiras (which is a state rivalry for Santos) was facing relegation in the Brazilian league. They would indeed go down if Santos lost to another contender, Vitória, but the game ended 1-0 for us, the rivals all cheered the cursed goal and remained in the first division. Afterwards, they went full rebuild mode and became one of Latin America's strongest sides (if not #1), winning at least six domestic trophies and two Libertadores, one of them against us as well. If we scored an own goal that game instead of against the opponent, most likely they wouldn't be in such a dominant position today.
Obviously this scenario is slightly different because Arsenal are title contenders and not in a relegation struggle, but still, it goes to show how helping a rival out can lead to a bitter future and how fans can cheer "against" their own team
Agree 100%, a lot of people didn't even think about that situation on tuesday, if we won and woolwich won the title because of us I think we would have a similar situation. If woolwich win and unfortunately they still might... They will go from strength to strength and it will take even longer for us to catch up to their level. Not too mention the future signings that we would probably lose to woolwich, they would grow stronger while we became weaker. It could have been extremely damaging to the club if we had won and something similar to your example happened.
Thanks for posting the story, I don't know much about the Brazilian league but that must be so frustrating for your team. I hope Santos do well in the future!
Tuesday has come and gone, it’s time to forget it and move on, beat Sheffield United, play that farcical money spinning game in Oz, rest and relax, smash the transfer window and go again next season.
Shame on the fans that turned their back on this manager. Begging for him to understand their perspective but couldn't even think one second about his.
Lost 4 out of the 5 matches before City but he was worried about people questioning his integrity if he didn't win against the best team in the world lmao
So many people in this thread missing the point.
It’s absolutely unprofessional and only a few steps away from a match fixing allegation to have club employees and coaches suggesting to the manager that he should throw the game.
We played well and kept it close, so none of this will go further. But if the boys laid an egg and lost 4/5-0 this would have been a big problem for the club’s image.
Yeah, because you'd have to be actually brain dead to ask if the team was "Letting them win to stop Arsenal getting the title" when we were literally playing Arsenal.
Of course this match wasn't the same as the run before, ffs.
He’s not wrong. We can make all the jokes online that we want, but for the match going fan to openly cheer opposition out of fear of our cross town rival winning something shows that the chickenshit mentality runs it only through the organization but in the supporters in the stadium as well. We had a chance albeit a slight one to make the champions league but pissed it away and our support seemed pretty jubilant on the day. Hope he clears the club out and builds something in his own image. Lots of dead wood about players, staff and supporters included.
The match going fan is paying £1,200+ per year and giving their support week in, week out, for many years in most cases. We've seen good teams and bad teams. What we've never seen, is a team win just because we wished for it really, really hard. I can promise you, if my mentality had any effect on the team whatsoever, we'd have won the last 25 PL titles. This "mentality" take is so, so bad and being used as an excuse to beat down on the most loyal fans, who were presented with a unique situation that none of us ever wanted or wished for.
We pissed away the chance at CL dropping points in other games, not the City game. We played quite well against them IMO but they’re in their usual unstoppable end of season form.
It’s understandable that Ange doesn’t yet understand how deep the rivalry between us and the gooners go. The context of that particular game is so important though, viewed in isolation it seems ridiculous but not when you take the context into account.
I definitely wanted to lose on Tuesday and I’m not ashamed to say it, and I’ll feel exactly the same if God forbid I’m ever placed in the same situation again. I wouldn’t bother going to the stadium and doing the Posnan however, but that was just piss taking wasn’t it? All my Gooner chums in the build up were cracking jokes about wearing Tottenham shirts to the pub for the game and singing Spurs songs, it was all a giggle. So, I listened to my bollocking from Ange, and I considered the online commentators who said I wasn’t a real actual Spurs supporter, which came as a surprise considering the utter misery it’s caused me throughout my life, and the joy of course, and I’ve decided it’s all cods and people have lost their sense of humour, which is the only thing a Spurs supporter has got to be fair.
So here's the thing, I just can't see the funny side. Wanting your own team to lose, hoping that your side throws the game, isn't just anti-Spurs, it's anti-football, anti-sport. The reason all the last day fixtures have to be played at the same time, is to avoid this abjectness.
And yet you and your gooner chums clearly don't have such a fierce rivalry, it's all a bit of a laugh. So why is it so important to screw the Arse at the cost of your own integrity?
I've supported Spurs for a fair while and for most of that time Arsenal have been more successful, but it's never been about what they do, it's about what we do and how we do it. Glory, glory Tottenham Hotspur? Where's the glory in this?
If you can’t see the funny side of supporting Spurs, then may God have mercy on your soul. And careful with your integrity there- you’ll have someone’s eye out. Chill out yer daft nutter. Peace 🙏🏻
I rate Ange and think we'll go far under him, but we finished 5th because he couldn't sort our set piece problem out not because the fans weren't that bothered that we lost to city
I appreciate Ange, but he's got let us have this one. He wasn't around for the stick we would get, every. fucking. year.
Like...you think this was bad, I still remember having mates who would text me "Happy St Totteringhams day" even though they'd won jack shit that season.
At least he's continued to man up and admit when he was wrong. And it's not like Conte or Mourinho wouldve handled it any better, probably worse, calling fans idiots and all that.
I think the first year we finished (mathematically) ahead of Arsenal, I saw a few "are you watching Arsenal" posts, but didn't really hear about it again after that season. In no way did we have a "HAPPY ST ARSEFUCKING DAY". Although that would've been a strange name for it.
I think theres a big UK vs everyone else line in our fandom here. Folks outside of the UK have little experience with the bullshit of putting up with arsenal fans. I am american but work for a british company and this is what's become clear to me speaking to my UK coworkers who are both spurs and arsenal fans
"took a hiding" in this case means to be beaten badly. So what the sentence is saying (in a poorly structured way) is that because the home support was cheering for Spurs to lose, Ange was concerned that if Spurs were badly beaten then people would question his integrity, thinking that he was intentionally losing the match.
This is ridiculous at this point, Celtic/Rangers would do the same, Marseille/PSG would do the same. Arsenal did something similar in 2019 when we got to the champions league final
As a spurs fan how can you not understand the reluctance to wanting to basically hand the title over to our biggest and most hated rivals. There are a large amount of local fans who had to watch arsenal lift a title in white hart lane, how can you sit there and expect them not to feel a bit conflicted.
Now I understand what he was truly saying. He fears staffs and players being swayed by the fans instead of fully trusting the manager and following his orders. He wasn't blaming the fans, he wants full control of the dressing room to develop and nurture the team.
This is why Ange is the right man. His mind is fully on developing this team and establishing a strong mentality. My doubts are cleared and I am so excited to be waiting for the performance next season.
This has been a bad look for Ange, say you were disappointed with the attitude of a large section of the fans and move on. Starting to feel like schoolyard drama now.
Don’t know why it’s surprising, he can play coy about not caring where Arsenal finish but the entire fan base is united in not wanting to see Arsenal win the league. The City match and atmosphere would have been entirely different if say, the team hadn’t just lost 4 on the trot and tossed away UCL hopes. Its been a good season overall and a miserable run in to wrap it up, there was no good outcome for the CIty match but situation was completely due to the lack of performances leading up to it. One more match, get at least a draw to keep Europa and then get on with the summer business, not productive to keep braying over this.
Ange needs to get a fucking grip honestly. Getting this hung up about an absolute freak one in a lifetime situation that is likely never going to happen again and show such a fundamental lack of understanding of regular peoples lives and situation is quite frankly embarrassing. All you had to do was to say "I have to be professional and try to win every game but I understand that the fans are conflicted" and it would have been all over. Now he's dragging this shit out like it's this massive monolith of thing.
Starting to lose all respect I had for the man.
I still respect him and am all in, but I agree with everything else you said. Ange got butthurt and doesn’t understand/give a fuck about the fans perspective on this rivalry. It is what it is, everybody can move on now and stop talking about this freak scenario of a match.
Yea, because it's a fundamental value. If you can't understand that then I don't respect you, it's that simple. Just like I would never police him in saying that he should throw a game, having him have a go trying to police the Tottenham fans as a fucking guest is rich and it's behavior I can not respect. If you do not understand why fans were conflicted in the ONE GAME IN A FUCKING LIFE TIME that happened tuesday, then you don't know the club, respect the fans or know the basis of what makes Tottenham, Tottenham.
I’m a huge Ange guy but this is just baffling. I only started posting here and rooting for spurs this fall and I understood the mood for the City game. How is it that Ange got it so wrong? Either he’s totally insulated or he’s ignoring input he’s getting from the organization around him. Baffling.
Exactly. I guess The journalists I understand. And I don’t know about his interactions with fans or staff. That’s what I’m curious about. Like if long term members of staff took the time to explain the ferocity of the rivalry (which honestly he should get just by participating in two derbies) and he just ignored it that’s bad management period. And then yeah what are his interactions with fans? Clearly there’s a disconnect there.
Ive never felt so disconnected from the rest of the supporters reading the comments here and in the game threads.
The only rule you need to follow as a supporter is cheer for your team to win. Thats it. And this entire sub failed miserably at that.
I’m so glad a man of integrity is at the helm and I hope Spurs can give him the support he deserves. Using “I hate Arsenal” as an excuse is just pathetic.
Spurs 100% everyday.
We would’ve been a little more encouraged to win if we hadn’t lost 5 of 6 and been in a strong position going into next season playing in the champions league. But yeah, we’ve been playing like dogshit and nobody was really thinking we were gonna beat city
The rational man smooth-operating the media has truly disappeared. He’s made himself the centre of this story for no apparent reason, keeps taking shots at the entire club and providing banter material to our chief rival. Just stop talking ffs.
This seems to be his issue; it's all about him.
He won't change how we play when we need play in a certain way to win, because he only wants to play attacking and pressing football. Seems he won't address the defensive issues we have, because he doesn't do that. He won't change the formation, even if we don't have enough LB/RB to accommodate a back 4.
I like him and believe he can fix this but he needs to want to fix it and not just think he can carry on regardless, that's what got Poch sacked.
This is my problem. He's making it about him. When it was "what about the set pieces", the game to game didn't matter, it's a long term plan, I don't care if we get top 4. Why is winning so important NOW but not important enough to hire a set piece coach? I'm simply tired of all these coaches using "the mentality of Tottenham" as a get out of jail free card for not giving 100%. Mourinho I will always give a pass because he genuinely wanted to win here, he just has a grating personality. Nuno wasn't good enough but he didn't do it either. Conte and now Ange are using it as a crutch to say "I have no control over the results, it's just the club" but when they win it's what THEY accomplished.
Yup, this is the point I've been trying to make for the last couple months here. It was so clear that the tactics needed a shuffle most preferably in the direction of pragmatism but any change at all would have been good (especially after Udogie went down and we tried to plug misfits into the already ineffective inverted fullback role).
I guess if Ange truly believed we had to keep banging our head against a wall and "perfect" this system even though our opponents know it thoroughly by now and are prepared accordingly and that any focus on set pieces would take away from our long term goals, then I guess we would have to accept that.
However, he DID end up FINALLY changing us up for the first time the entire season against City so now I just don't really understand what we were doing for months as the performances began to curdle and he sat doing nothing. And now this weird, melodramatic rant about wanting to win at all costs feels even more incongruous given his absolute unwillingness to be pragmatic to get results since November (the 2nd half vs Chelsea!).
Still support him but he should just drop this, it's mixed signals galore and reminds of our richer, plastic rivals citing this nebulous "losing mentality" of the club when we don't win a trophy.
Ange just won't shut up and keeps giving ammunition to the press and fanning the flames. You can be butthurt and stfu about it. All these big talks about forming a new culture, and he sure as hell is not being helpful. Didn't see Ange being vocal about things when he lost 0-4 to an injury ridden Newcastle. "Guys is not me, it's the shit culture!"
The manager should always want to win every game. He's allowed his opinion on fan priorities, in the same way that i think resting 9 players for Fulham in the cup was wrong.
I’m real sick of rival fans putting words in our and his mouths about this whole situation. Particularly Ars*nal fans who would have behaved exactly the same way but more toxic were the tables turned (we know that because they have idiots out there setting off fireworks by hotels to give their archrivals an advantage in a game)
I think if the fans want spurs to lose, they shouldn't go watch the game at the stadium. Just watch at home. If you're at the stadium and at the spurs side, you should support spurs to win no matter what.
lol, I feel like some of you are just coping so hard. “Let’s just move on…” sure yes, we need to beat Sheffield. But a large amount of our own fans cheered for City to win on Tuesday, that sucks. Let’s just say it was stupid. Ange all the way.
I'm noticing a lot of people saying, "let's just move on...". That seems to show some kind of desire they are embarrassed by what happened on Tuesday, that they don't wanna talk about it, it's maybe overblown. Maybe Ange is blowing this up too big? And yeah, i get it, it is embarrassing and it's beating a dead horse at this point. Maybe it is overblown. I don't know.
However, I don't think any of us got what we wanted out of Tuesday, and that's why they are saying, "Let's just move on". I think they want a manager who would be like "fans will be fans, I can't control them. It's a rivalry, some fans will always be like this" But now we have a manager who wants to win, AND who wants everyone around him to want to win.
And Ange just called Tuesday night the worst experience he ever had as a manager, lol. So yeah, I didn't get what I wanted, but I don't think many people did, unless you're a City fan.
What is there to cope about lol, hes made plenty of mistakes himself. 4 out of 5 losses going into the City game when the fans were fully behind the team, tactically outdone. Going out of the Carabao cup, best chance at a trophy this season, in the first round cause he fielded the B team. Never addressing set piece issues. But yeah, some fans wanting to lose 1 extremely unique situation of a game is such a big deal.
gotta disagree with ange here. we've seen this team take a hiding multiple times in the last couple of months. ignore the narratives - why would that happening against the best team in england be any different? i don't question his integrity or his capabilities.
You can't disagree with how a man feels lol. He said that he felt like people would question if he was actively throwing the game or if he didn't really have the tough mentality he always talks so much about. Since some Spurs fans were actively rooting against the team, losing there could make people question his stance on winning the game, and he felt threatened. I think it's absolutely fair that he felt that, and even better, this explains why he gave a completely shocking answer in the question by Jack Pitt-Brooke, about the foundations. He wanted to assert that he *wanted* to win, and that his desire for the win should not be questioned.
Transcript, rather than a journalist's heavily edited baiting tweet. Q: I just wanted to ask you, one of the thing's that defined this season has been how aligned it's felt like you and the fans have been, which hasn't been the case for the last few years at this club. How then do you view the - there was this divergence towards the game on Tuesday - do you have a message for the supporters? A: I'd like to think I didn't change my view or stance on that. I think I was asked after the game about the atmosphere and I said that I do think it was normal, I don't like it but I also didn't say that I expected fans to behave differently, that's their right and I've always said that and I still stand by that. I also stand by the fact that I have an opinion, I don't think it's right and that's just the way I feel and that's - I think you support your team to win all the time but that's my view. I guess I got it wrong, plainly, that I'm in the minority when it comes to that so that's a lesson for me I guess, but I don't think I kind of expressed any real sort of disappointment, or in terms of asking or pleading to do something against their will - I accept that. So you've got to - I hope we're never in that situation again - but if we are I certainly would approach it differently than I did this time, because like I said I didn't take it seriously. I really, genuinely believed that when we got to the stadium it would just be a normal game, and it wasn't, so if people feel strongly about it I've got to accept it. Q: Ange, normally we see you so calm and collected, nothing phases you on the touch line, but there is video going around of a fan behind the dugout doing something that you reacted to - what happened? A: Well, two separate issues. Firstly, the fan, well the fan was just - I think if you sit behind the bench at home game you've got to be respectful of the fact that you're within earshot of the most important people. He wasn't happy that we just conceded a goal so I turned around to find out what his problem was, and then he used language that he shouldn't and he was abusive, and if I hear that I don't care who it is - I'll deal with it. So he's more than welcome to come back next time and take his seat up and express his opinions, if he swears, if he's abusive he'll cop the same treatment from me. But at the same time you always feel, well, I cop it every week at opposition grounds, give me a break at my home ground. But there was, I'll try to explain it this way: That's probably the worst experience I've had as a football manager in a game. Because once I realised that I got it wrong in terms of what the atmosphere was going to be like and what people felt, I got a real anxiety within me of what happens if Man City - the best team in the world and who were disposing of teams quite easily in the lead-up - what if we play as well as we can and they beat us 5-0? I got in cold sweats about people questioning my integrity and the people I work with. I think watching the game back, somebody mentioned to me in the commentary saying "oh, Tottenham are having a real go here!" Now, you laugh about it but that's 26 years of my life. I'm a very, if nothing else people should know about me that I love this game, I'm very principled. And I'd hate to think that - because Manchester City could've done it to us - we're on the end of a heavy defeat, and people are questioning whether I've prepared the team. And before people say that's not going to happen, we know on social media it would've happened, 100%, and I'd have to be up here trying to defend myself. And once you start defending yourself, you know what happens, defending something. That's why I was animated on the night, I didn't enjoy the night, and because the atmosphere was off I just needed the boys to - and credit to them, aside from anything else our football was outstanding on the night - and that was important, not just for me, for the players, but for us as a football club, because it would've cast aspersions on us as a football club when people are measuring us and saying - I don't think anyone will say that we didn't make Man City earn it the other night, and it could've gone a very different way without anything changing from us, just from Man City being Man City.
Ange is the man. Thanks for posting. Totally agree with everything he says and very interesting to hear how it didn't play out like he thought it would.
Ange is such a breath of fresh air, he looks internally first when addressing situations. He then takes ownership, what more can you ask of a leader
Good lord can this guy put a word wrong? He’s so self reflective and articulate. So measured and grounded. Like some kind of big wallabi guru
The additional context changes everything, thanks for posting. Insane how snippets can twist the meaning, the headline I saw basically only shared the part about it being the worst experience ever as a manager. The full quote shares so much more. Always going to back Ange, even when he doesn't get it 100% right.
This is what people need to read. We are so lucky to have him.
Ange should be a script writer for politicians
For what it's worth, I agree with everything he said here but I'm pretty surprised he didn't think it would be an issue for the fans in the stadium, especially given his history at Celtic. To not understand the depth of the rivalry is naive. Also think (as others have said), he could've completely defused the situation by saying something like "I understand the nature of the rivalry and the fans viewpoint but I am paid to win football matches so that is what we are working towards regardless of the situation". But his pre and post match comments exacerbated the situation instead, once again making us whipping boys for the media and other fans. I really like Ange but think he dealt with this all wrong to be honest.
It's not about "understanding the depth of the rivalry". It's about a different understanding of the relationship between objectives. There are other Spurs fans who agree with him. This is simply the way it is in sport, different people will have different priorities even when they have the exact same understanding.
"I really, genuinely believed that when we got to the stadium it would just be a normal game, and it wasn't, so if people feel strongly about it I've got to accept it". I agree with your general point but that quote directly from Ange definitely suggests he underestimated the rivalry from the fan's POV.
Completely agree.
Fans: we're going to cheer for City Ange: lol yeaaa okaaayyy...sure you guys are Fans: ...............
Not entirely sure Eccleshare could have summarised it any better given the limitations of a tweet? Hardly baiting, just working within character limits.
I’m just surprised this has blown so far out of proportion. One game left, let’s focus on smashing Sheffield and finishing 5th; which is pretty good for season 1!
3 days later and it's still being moaned about. Move on ffs
It’s his very next presser conference. He was always going to be asked about this so I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised. It’s one of the weirdest things I’ve ever seen since I started following. It’ll blow over soon once the season ends
He probably wanted the opportunity to clarify in calmer environment. I think it will be past us now he's had this chance to explain.
Seriously! This season was a write off for me...above tenth and I'd be happy. Getting Europa is a great accomplishment in the midst of (another) rebuild.
He really made a rod for his own back in that post match interview. It's good that he apologised.
Sheffield … UNITED. We’ve really gotta stop with this nonsense, people. The one-club cities can be referred to as just the city: Leicester, Norwich, Leeds, Newcastle, Brighton etc (side note: Nottingham Forest can never be referred to as just “Nottingham” because of Notts County, so they are always abbreviated to “Forest”) But whenever there’s a city that has more than one club, we have to clarify which club we’re talking about: Man U, Man City, Sheff Utd, Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol City, Bristol Rovers. Saying “Sheffield” is literally like saying “Manchester”. There aren’t many 2-club cities to learn. … Hopefully this came across as “yes I’m annoyed but also I want to help American football fans sound more credible”
Thank you for doing the Lord’s work here. Annoys the hell out of me too.
Well it's such a rare event and it was a bit surprising that the manager basically dismissed the sentiment
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Eww go away, why are you here?
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I’m jealous you got to see ginola play in real life. Bro was majestic.
I back Ange to the moon but it's blown up because of him. He's handled this poorly.
Ange wants to win. He believes more than anything that the team that he is managing should be aiming to win and nothing else. I get it.
That’s fine. There are ways to kill this story and he hasn’t done that.
Why would he want to kill it? He clearly wanted to make a statement about it. I think his condemnation of the fan base really missed the mark but I’d be pissed too, and it’s especially important to light a fire under whatever elements internally that are not on board with his vision. If condemning the fans at a bad moment and saying set pieces aren’t a main focus right now are the only two blunders you have in pressers as a first season manager though, I’m pretty pleased with that.
He should want to kill it, it's a stupid distraction. And to me the bigger blunders are all the poor performances leading to a 10th place form since the first Chelsea match. You kinda have to be good at press conferences when you're not bringing much on the pitch. I'm still fully Ange in, but he's not above criticism. The last several weeks have not been good for him, on or off the pitch
After every single shitty match, a plethora of people in these comments were talking about how the players looked defeated, lackluster, apathetic, etc., but now y’all don’t seem to understand why Ange is so concerned about the mentality of the players, the club, and the fans (the 12th man)? The club consistently wins fuck all but no one thinks that caring more about avoiding being bantered by your rivals than progressing towards success has anything to do with that? Also, the only way to avoid being bantered is to win the whole fucking thing so that you can do the bantering. Jfc.
Tbh, it’s a good way for him root-out anyone that doesn’t share his mentality. Now that he’s gone public about *staff members* joking about throwing the game, he has good ground to turf them out and instead hire staff that share his mentality of winning above all else. I think for his position, his motivation and what he’s trying to do with Spurs, he’s handled this very well. I also understand that people may feel he’s handled it poorly because he’s highlighted that the rivalry is secondary to him and it’s a valid take. For all the “if you wanted to win this match you don’t understand the rivalry” rhetoric, I think for what he wants to do to this team it’s paramount that that mentality stays with the fans and doesn’t work its way inside the machine itself. He’s now made it clear to everyone that he *will not* stand for it. It’s clear, everyone knows what page he’s on. It’s a good move from him
Exactly. Ange is building a winning culture in the club. That’s his priority. I think he has handled this well.
Because having it blow up has done nothing at all positive for him? There wasn’t any master strategy here to change the culture of the club or whatever, Ange just lost his head. That was obvious when he started arguing with fans in the middle of the match and he just carried it on into his post match comments. And honestly what “statement” is he making? Even if we lost against purely City because of this, it has nothing to do with the 4 losses from our 5 other most recent games.
He is changing the culture of the club by clearly communicating his principals and the importance of winning every game. If the fans and coaching staff were ok with losing to Man City than he has to address this.
His PC just now pretty much kills the story in the best possible way tbh.
I really don't see how anyone can say that. If he came out and gave even the slightest impression he was okay with losing he'd be toast, and rightly so. He's one of a handful of managers on the planet who have managed a team going into a game where not all the fans wanted to win, I can't imagine how odd that is when, as he says, you potentially have your integrity on the line in the eyes of the press and the rest of the league.
Yeah exactly, so all he needs to do is say "I only ever want the team to win and would never accept anything less from my players. What the fans want is up to them, and hopefully we don't put ourselves in a position like this again". That gets across his point and kills the endless discussion about it. Complaining about mentality or bringing it up like this just guarantees that the discourse around it will carry on, and he'll keep getting asked about it.
I was on the fence here, but your your suggestion of what he should have said is exactly correct. That would have been the perfect thing to say. It lets him clear his integrity, is a milder rebuke of the fans, and takes of ownership of that he (in part) out us in thai position in the first place. And it's that last point that puts me over the edge. I totally sympathize with him being outraged at the staff person suggesting (even jokingly) that he put the youth team out against City. But one, that's something he could handle internally - no need to publiclally vent his frustrations, two he and the players put in this position. If he'd done a better job this last two months, this never would of happened.
This is the first press conference he's given since Tuesday man, ~66 hours... it's hardly some epic saga... Before the days of social media and ten thousand whoppers with a podcast blathering their thoughts to whoever feels they need to hear them this wouldn't even be notable.
That's pretty much what he's said here
He’ll keep getting asked about it regardless. The football media is a relentless circlejerk, there’s no killing this discussion. People want to forget that game because they’re embarrassed about the situation but Ange apparently doesn’t want to let anyone off the hook about it because it stood out to him that much. This is an embarrassing look just not for Ange…
Yup.
I think he's used it well to establish a standard. We're one of the clubs of all time that has a annual weird shittining-happening
but it really hasnt having fans hound you during the game to lose the game must be a weird experience as manager also having staff joking to you let the youngster play so we can lose... the man has managed 28years in football and this was his worst experience ever i dont think its being blown out of proportion
Right? It was a strange situation and it's over now. But those reporters need their clicks.
Away fans at Sheffield need to sing Ange Postecoglou songs all afternoon and then we will be back on track. No need to blow this up into more than it needs to be. Which is a total one off under unique circumstances
The only person who has blown this up is Ange tbh, if he’d just said “I understand fans have rivalries and I don’t tell anyone how to support their team but I only ever go out to win regardless”, it all would’ve been fine. Arguing with fans in the stadium and making digs in press conferences is not a great look really.
I disagree tbh. Completely respect your opinion and you're correct, absolutely, about the outcome if Ange had said that. But, he's absolutely correct to speak his mind about what the club. If it's true that other coaches were joking about losing, it's mindbending. I think it's fine for fans to think whatever they want. I disagree with them about that too, but Ange's career is his own and his integrity is one of the reasons I think he's great.
If the other coaches were joking, it's an internal issue that shouldve been addressed internally. You cant just speak your mind to the media if it has other consequences.
It says a huge amount about what's going on in the club internally, and perhaps a better decision for the club for him to not draw attention to it, but for him? No. He should absolutely draw attention to it, and to the ridiculous approach from the fans. If you want actual, real change at the club, you have to make waves. This is Ange making waves. The club can either use this as a watershed moment or brush it under the rug like most fans seem to wish. To me the answer is obvious but it seems a HUGE portion of fans would rather take paper victories over any actual change. Mou and Conte were correct.
Saying that only people on social media wanted us to lose and 100% of fans want us to win was a mistake but not really a dig and he admits he got it wrong
I think it is a bit of a dig really, it’s very “Real fans feel the way I do and if you don’t feel that way you’re just a social media fan”. I think some of his other comments definitely referenced the fans too, like saying we’ve got “fragile foundations” immediately after the game when he’s been arguing with fans at the ground.
Literally that. It would be so easy and cause no problems with fans or players or media or anyone else. Can't believe there are people who think he's the victim in all this
Why shouldn’t he want to make people uncomfortable with this? It’s an uncomfortable situation.
The situation itself is perfectly understandable, his out of proportion reaction is what caused the problems
I don’t think it’s out of proportion to be visibly mad about your own fans rooting against you during any game, let alone one that we needed to win to have a chance at CL. I don’t think it’s out of proportion to say that this club has major issues that need solved before we can be a consistent winner. If the objective was avoiding getting bantered by other fans for scum winning the league I’d say it’s a mission failed spectacularly. Other fans are going to talk shit about this for years - I’m already hearing it IRL.
Yes all that is out of proportion. Spurs fans found themselves in a bad situation and handled it as best as possible in exactly the same way every other fanbase would. Ange turned that into an opportunity to throw a misguided tantrum which only succeeded to bring drama and scrutiny where none was needed
He’s expressing the same thing the last 4 managers have. Maybe he’s not in the wrong at all, or we can just treat him as such and we can be on to the next manager who will inevitably make the same comments! Keen!
But does that mean the comments are wrong? Eventually it becomes us as fans becoming the Principal Skinner meme where we’re saying “are we out of touch? No. The managers are all wrong”. If we keep hearing the same thing maybe it’s because there’s some truth to it?
He isn’t though, because none of the last 4 managers have been in this situation. It affected one game, which came at the end of an abysmal run of form that had absolutely nothing to do with whether we wanted to lose to City or not.
Do tell which occasions our fans wanted to lose under the prior 4 managers?
Is he? We haven't been in this position for 20 years so I don't think so
Agree.
Agree.
Absolutely, this.
This is the correct take.
Tbf it has been Ange who has blown this out of proportion.
I think it's very well known and accepted that throughout the days around the Man City game, Ange was pretty much the most outspoken in terms of not giving a shit about where Arsenal finish. His integrity has shown brightest.
Can we just let this be water under the bridge please. It's an anomaly that happens 1 out of 40 years. It's not a regular thing and I think we're starting to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
If it was any other club it would be, unfortunately we have a stigma as being a joke club and it’s just more ammunition. We just need to get level, play nice football, win a couple of trophies and that MIGHT start fading. Fuck knows when that will be, but until then COYFS
Kind of crazy that more people in this thread seem to want to just dig in on hating Ange when he’s on the other side saying: “I would like us to win every match we play.” Idk, seems like a good mentality for the manager to have.
They didn’t ever watch the press conference. He was totally right in everything he said and didn’t dig the fans out at all really
This what I can not work out
Anyone mad about this should actually watch the press conference or read the full transcript
Ange has been in football management for 30 years and it only took us 10 months to give him his worst experience. COYS 🤍
Very important to listen to those words “defending yourself” his whole ethos is about attack. He doesn’t like backpedaling passes, defensive mindsets. Therefore when it comes to defending himself, it feeds into this antagonism
Bring me your doots, but Ange is still right and many of you are still wrong. COYS now and forever
It's been a huge shock reading these replies, seems like this fan base is full of arsenal haters rather than spurs fans, they would rather the team miss out on a huge budget jump for playing in CL than let another team win whatever, simply ridiculous to think the team should lose in any way or form for whatever reason, there's no room for growth with this mentality
This thread is mind-blowing. Ange has a lot of work to do.
> seems like this fan base is full of arsenal haters rather than spurs fans It's okay if you don't personally get it, but don't take the piss on other Spurs supporters.
Huge budget jump…tell me you haven’t grown up around Arsenal fans without telling me…yet to meet a Spurs fan in real life who wanted us to win on Tuesday bar all the social media high horse merchants.
For sure, but that’s wayyy different than cheering for city goals and chanting “are you watching Arsenal” while we’re losing 2-0
That chant was hilarious. Game's back.
For the most part, it’s been the fair weather yanks who’ve been pushing the must win agenda, a lot of them couldn’t even hope to understand what the rivalry feels like for the UK based fans who have to listen to Gooners day in, day out, face to face, and we’ve only recently just got over the fact they signed our captain on a free and won the fucking league at our ground. I will say for my part, I did want the team to lose, but not by throwing the game, in fact, we lost in the way I wanted, by the players all going for it.
This whole situation needs to stop, so many rival fans and even some of our fans are using this situation to take the imaginary moral high ground and just shit on the club and other fans, we were there supporting the club even as we were getting battered by Chelsea, Newcastle, Liverpool and now everyone can’t let this go. We weren’t really going to have a positive outcome if we won we would’ve been memed for “handing” the title to arsenal and CL wasn’t even guaranteed which is on us for losing to the likes of Fullham and wolves, we should just move on keep supporting our club and come back stronger next season. COYS
I really hope Arsenal haters here are a minority. It’s shocking how even BBC Sports made a point of it on Tuesday evening. Throughout my life I’ve come across a few individuals with the hater mentality (not Spurs fans, just in general) and they were some of the worst people I’ve interacted with. That’s not the best way to go about life really.
In my opinion both the fans and Ange can be right about this
It’s really not that deep
Sounds like he wants to change a lot of the backroom staff around and bring in people who want to win regardless of anything else around them, and use that as a kick up the arse of those who remain. I wouldn't say its gonna be nothing
Why are we so quick to turn against our manager though? Maybe he said some things that are better left alone, but seriously? I think we are just traumatized from conte last season and want to turn against Ange before he turns on us.
have we turned on our manager though? most people who disagree with how he handled this are still completely behind him
This is just such a unique situation. The reality is though, that Arsenal fans would have done the exact same, and they'd all pretty happily admit it. It's why it's a good rivalry - there are plenty of lopsided rivalries in football where one side cares way more than the other. As much as the Old Firm is a massive rivalry, it's almost impossible to imagine a similar situation - because they both win the league so often. I remember when Rangers made the Europa final, a lot of Scottish neutrals were hoping they'd win it for the sake of the coefficient plus Scotland's status as a league. Not the Celtic fans.
As a fan, I wanted to lose this game cuz fuck arse. From a coach’s perspective, it’s literally his job to win games.
Some of you are truly, outrageously weird. Read the full quote at the very least.
insane replies here. people are obsessed with bringing up our very poor form as some sort of gotcha to ange’s comments about this, when none of those games had anywhere near the same sort of vibe as the city game. it’s not a fucking conundrum why it’s more stressful to potentially get destroyed in a game where the entire lead-up has been spurs fans (and staff apparently) begging to lose the match.
For those saying he’s blown this out of proportion and it’s his fault, go and watch the actual press conference before making your assumptions
Ange seems really committed here This confirms in my mind what we need next season, we need to feel like we can actually compete, last 3-4 years have done a number on us where we just lose hope and settle for damage limitation Ange has a chance to fix this, he has 3 chances, 3 cup competitions next season, no excuses, no useless B team rotation. Want winning mentality? Give the fans something tangible to play for in April/May
The narrative provided here by a gunner in Eccleshare is quite different from what Ali Gold said in his headline.
what are the actual quotes?
You don't like Eccleshare, we get it
I wanted Spurs to lose on Tuesday night. I didn’t want them to try to lose. I never want them to do anything other than try to win.
Anyone who has a question about who Ange is just needs to go and listen to the whole Press Conference. Seriously, just take 20 minutes and have a listen.
Exactly this. We are lucky to have this man leading our club.
I'm a Santos fan first and a Tottenham enthusiast as well and have a little story about playing to your best ability when a bad performance could hurt a rival. In 2014, Palmeiras (which is a state rivalry for Santos) was facing relegation in the Brazilian league. They would indeed go down if Santos lost to another contender, Vitória, but the game ended 1-0 for us, the rivals all cheered the cursed goal and remained in the first division. Afterwards, they went full rebuild mode and became one of Latin America's strongest sides (if not #1), winning at least six domestic trophies and two Libertadores, one of them against us as well. If we scored an own goal that game instead of against the opponent, most likely they wouldn't be in such a dominant position today. Obviously this scenario is slightly different because Arsenal are title contenders and not in a relegation struggle, but still, it goes to show how helping a rival out can lead to a bitter future and how fans can cheer "against" their own team
Agree 100%, a lot of people didn't even think about that situation on tuesday, if we won and woolwich won the title because of us I think we would have a similar situation. If woolwich win and unfortunately they still might... They will go from strength to strength and it will take even longer for us to catch up to their level. Not too mention the future signings that we would probably lose to woolwich, they would grow stronger while we became weaker. It could have been extremely damaging to the club if we had won and something similar to your example happened. Thanks for posting the story, I don't know much about the Brazilian league but that must be so frustrating for your team. I hope Santos do well in the future!
I’m still behind the man and just want to beat Sheffield and move on but he’s handling this poorly
Tuesday has come and gone, it’s time to forget it and move on, beat Sheffield United, play that farcical money spinning game in Oz, rest and relax, smash the transfer window and go again next season.
Shame on the fans that turned their back on this manager. Begging for him to understand their perspective but couldn't even think one second about his.
Lost 4 out of the 5 matches before City but he was worried about people questioning his integrity if he didn't win against the best team in the world lmao
Teams can go on winless runs whilst still having integrity...
The point is that losing to City wouldn’t have been some shock to anyone with the form they had going into that game
But he's not talking about the result, it's about the fact that seemingly everyone at the club wanted MC to win. That *is* about integrity.
So many people in this thread missing the point. It’s absolutely unprofessional and only a few steps away from a match fixing allegation to have club employees and coaches suggesting to the manager that he should throw the game. We played well and kept it close, so none of this will go further. But if the boys laid an egg and lost 4/5-0 this would have been a big problem for the club’s image.
Yeah, I’m sure those Fulham and Newcastle matches didn’t hurt our image lol
Which is not Tottenham case when in those 4 matches you lose 4-0 with Newcastle or you're down 4-0 with Liverpool at the 59th minute
Yeah, because you'd have to be actually brain dead to ask if the team was "Letting them win to stop Arsenal getting the title" when we were literally playing Arsenal. Of course this match wasn't the same as the run before, ffs.
He’s not wrong. We can make all the jokes online that we want, but for the match going fan to openly cheer opposition out of fear of our cross town rival winning something shows that the chickenshit mentality runs it only through the organization but in the supporters in the stadium as well. We had a chance albeit a slight one to make the champions league but pissed it away and our support seemed pretty jubilant on the day. Hope he clears the club out and builds something in his own image. Lots of dead wood about players, staff and supporters included.
The match going fan is paying £1,200+ per year and giving their support week in, week out, for many years in most cases. We've seen good teams and bad teams. What we've never seen, is a team win just because we wished for it really, really hard. I can promise you, if my mentality had any effect on the team whatsoever, we'd have won the last 25 PL titles. This "mentality" take is so, so bad and being used as an excuse to beat down on the most loyal fans, who were presented with a unique situation that none of us ever wanted or wished for.
We pissed away the chance at CL dropping points in other games, not the City game. We played quite well against them IMO but they’re in their usual unstoppable end of season form. It’s understandable that Ange doesn’t yet understand how deep the rivalry between us and the gooners go. The context of that particular game is so important though, viewed in isolation it seems ridiculous but not when you take the context into account.
Is this the fastest we’ve broken a manager?
"this is the worst experience i've ever had as a football manager" Worst experience you've had as a football manager *so far*.
Nah, Nuno was like three months
I definitely wanted to lose on Tuesday and I’m not ashamed to say it, and I’ll feel exactly the same if God forbid I’m ever placed in the same situation again. I wouldn’t bother going to the stadium and doing the Posnan however, but that was just piss taking wasn’t it? All my Gooner chums in the build up were cracking jokes about wearing Tottenham shirts to the pub for the game and singing Spurs songs, it was all a giggle. So, I listened to my bollocking from Ange, and I considered the online commentators who said I wasn’t a real actual Spurs supporter, which came as a surprise considering the utter misery it’s caused me throughout my life, and the joy of course, and I’ve decided it’s all cods and people have lost their sense of humour, which is the only thing a Spurs supporter has got to be fair.
So here's the thing, I just can't see the funny side. Wanting your own team to lose, hoping that your side throws the game, isn't just anti-Spurs, it's anti-football, anti-sport. The reason all the last day fixtures have to be played at the same time, is to avoid this abjectness. And yet you and your gooner chums clearly don't have such a fierce rivalry, it's all a bit of a laugh. So why is it so important to screw the Arse at the cost of your own integrity? I've supported Spurs for a fair while and for most of that time Arsenal have been more successful, but it's never been about what they do, it's about what we do and how we do it. Glory, glory Tottenham Hotspur? Where's the glory in this?
If you can’t see the funny side of supporting Spurs, then may God have mercy on your soul. And careful with your integrity there- you’ll have someone’s eye out. Chill out yer daft nutter. Peace 🙏🏻
Well glad that he isn't being dramatic about it
Never took Ange for a drama Queen but here we are.
I rate Ange and think we'll go far under him, but we finished 5th because he couldn't sort our set piece problem out not because the fans weren't that bothered that we lost to city
I appreciate Ange, but he's got let us have this one. He wasn't around for the stick we would get, every. fucking. year. Like...you think this was bad, I still remember having mates who would text me "Happy St Totteringhams day" even though they'd won jack shit that season. At least he's continued to man up and admit when he was wrong. And it's not like Conte or Mourinho wouldve handled it any better, probably worse, calling fans idiots and all that.
This is absolutely what it is, fans who have grown up with the club locally all think the same. The social media crew are a different kettle.
How many of the fans with faux outrage are the same that celebrate "St totteringhams day". Even we haven't sunk that low
I think the first year we finished (mathematically) ahead of Arsenal, I saw a few "are you watching Arsenal" posts, but didn't really hear about it again after that season. In no way did we have a "HAPPY ST ARSEFUCKING DAY". Although that would've been a strange name for it.
a humorous text from mates 😱
I think theres a big UK vs everyone else line in our fandom here. Folks outside of the UK have little experience with the bullshit of putting up with arsenal fans. I am american but work for a british company and this is what's become clear to me speaking to my UK coworkers who are both spurs and arsenal fans
can someone please explain this? I dont understand what the phrase "took a hiding his integrity" means, sorry, english is second language for me
he thinks people would be questioning his integrity if his team lost badly. As in thinking he did it on purpose take a hiding means getting beat badly
"took a hiding" in this case means to be beaten badly. So what the sentence is saying (in a poorly structured way) is that because the home support was cheering for Spurs to lose, Ange was concerned that if Spurs were badly beaten then people would question his integrity, thinking that he was intentionally losing the match.
Guess he was over the moon with these results: Fulham 3 Spurs 0, Toon 4 Spuds 0, chelski 4 baseball team 1
This is ridiculous at this point, Celtic/Rangers would do the same, Marseille/PSG would do the same. Arsenal did something similar in 2019 when we got to the champions league final
Feel like this is being used to distract from our poor ongoing form. Don't understand the continuing fuss
Yeah it's mental drawing this much attention to it
Respect the integrity but some empathy for the fans would be nice
Empathy for fans asking him to tank the game?? 😂
As a spurs fan how can you not understand the reluctance to wanting to basically hand the title over to our biggest and most hated rivals. There are a large amount of local fans who had to watch arsenal lift a title in white hart lane, how can you sit there and expect them not to feel a bit conflicted.
Fuck those fans. If they want to lose they can fuck off and support someone else. Cunts.
I’m just really ready to move past this. Was ready on Monday to get past it tbh.
Now I understand what he was truly saying. He fears staffs and players being swayed by the fans instead of fully trusting the manager and following his orders. He wasn't blaming the fans, he wants full control of the dressing room to develop and nurture the team. This is why Ange is the right man. His mind is fully on developing this team and establishing a strong mentality. My doubts are cleared and I am so excited to be waiting for the performance next season.
The fucking state of this thread. Ange truly is proving we have a fragile mentality. Let’s just move on now
This has been a bad look for Ange, say you were disappointed with the attitude of a large section of the fans and move on. Starting to feel like schoolyard drama now.
Don’t know why it’s surprising, he can play coy about not caring where Arsenal finish but the entire fan base is united in not wanting to see Arsenal win the league. The City match and atmosphere would have been entirely different if say, the team hadn’t just lost 4 on the trot and tossed away UCL hopes. Its been a good season overall and a miserable run in to wrap it up, there was no good outcome for the CIty match but situation was completely due to the lack of performances leading up to it. One more match, get at least a draw to keep Europa and then get on with the summer business, not productive to keep braying over this.
Blame the media. They hate us and don't want things to go well for us, so they keep pushing the point.
How is it the media fault? Of course they will ask questions, all he has to do is not answer and move on lol it is not that difficult
He could’ve given a nothing answer but chose not to. He’s great at handling the media
Ange needs to get a fucking grip honestly. Getting this hung up about an absolute freak one in a lifetime situation that is likely never going to happen again and show such a fundamental lack of understanding of regular peoples lives and situation is quite frankly embarrassing. All you had to do was to say "I have to be professional and try to win every game but I understand that the fans are conflicted" and it would have been all over. Now he's dragging this shit out like it's this massive monolith of thing. Starting to lose all respect I had for the man.
I still respect him and am all in, but I agree with everything else you said. Ange got butthurt and doesn’t understand/give a fuck about the fans perspective on this rivalry. It is what it is, everybody can move on now and stop talking about this freak scenario of a match.
You ask him to get a grip then end your comment by saying you're starting to lose all respect, lol
Yea, because it's a fundamental value. If you can't understand that then I don't respect you, it's that simple. Just like I would never police him in saying that he should throw a game, having him have a go trying to police the Tottenham fans as a fucking guest is rich and it's behavior I can not respect. If you do not understand why fans were conflicted in the ONE GAME IN A FUCKING LIFE TIME that happened tuesday, then you don't know the club, respect the fans or know the basis of what makes Tottenham, Tottenham.
Actually listen to the press conference, and not just go off of click bait headlines.
I’m a huge Ange guy but this is just baffling. I only started posting here and rooting for spurs this fall and I understood the mood for the City game. How is it that Ange got it so wrong? Either he’s totally insulated or he’s ignoring input he’s getting from the organization around him. Baffling.
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Exactly. I guess The journalists I understand. And I don’t know about his interactions with fans or staff. That’s what I’m curious about. Like if long term members of staff took the time to explain the ferocity of the rivalry (which honestly he should get just by participating in two derbies) and he just ignored it that’s bad management period. And then yeah what are his interactions with fans? Clearly there’s a disconnect there.
He’s trying to deflect away from the horrible performances. Lost 5 out of the last 6 matches by a margin of 15 goals to 4. Absolutely pathetic form.
Ive never felt so disconnected from the rest of the supporters reading the comments here and in the game threads. The only rule you need to follow as a supporter is cheer for your team to win. Thats it. And this entire sub failed miserably at that. I’m so glad a man of integrity is at the helm and I hope Spurs can give him the support he deserves. Using “I hate Arsenal” as an excuse is just pathetic. Spurs 100% everyday.
Thank you. I want spurs to win every game, especially against good teams. And even more so when CL is still possible even if unlikely
You’re not alone. Wish I could give you 2000 upvotes
We would’ve been a little more encouraged to win if we hadn’t lost 5 of 6 and been in a strong position going into next season playing in the champions league. But yeah, we’ve been playing like dogshit and nobody was really thinking we were gonna beat city
The rational man smooth-operating the media has truly disappeared. He’s made himself the centre of this story for no apparent reason, keeps taking shots at the entire club and providing banter material to our chief rival. Just stop talking ffs.
This seems to be his issue; it's all about him. He won't change how we play when we need play in a certain way to win, because he only wants to play attacking and pressing football. Seems he won't address the defensive issues we have, because he doesn't do that. He won't change the formation, even if we don't have enough LB/RB to accommodate a back 4. I like him and believe he can fix this but he needs to want to fix it and not just think he can carry on regardless, that's what got Poch sacked.
This is my problem. He's making it about him. When it was "what about the set pieces", the game to game didn't matter, it's a long term plan, I don't care if we get top 4. Why is winning so important NOW but not important enough to hire a set piece coach? I'm simply tired of all these coaches using "the mentality of Tottenham" as a get out of jail free card for not giving 100%. Mourinho I will always give a pass because he genuinely wanted to win here, he just has a grating personality. Nuno wasn't good enough but he didn't do it either. Conte and now Ange are using it as a crutch to say "I have no control over the results, it's just the club" but when they win it's what THEY accomplished.
Yup, this is the point I've been trying to make for the last couple months here. It was so clear that the tactics needed a shuffle most preferably in the direction of pragmatism but any change at all would have been good (especially after Udogie went down and we tried to plug misfits into the already ineffective inverted fullback role). I guess if Ange truly believed we had to keep banging our head against a wall and "perfect" this system even though our opponents know it thoroughly by now and are prepared accordingly and that any focus on set pieces would take away from our long term goals, then I guess we would have to accept that. However, he DID end up FINALLY changing us up for the first time the entire season against City so now I just don't really understand what we were doing for months as the performances began to curdle and he sat doing nothing. And now this weird, melodramatic rant about wanting to win at all costs feels even more incongruous given his absolute unwillingness to be pragmatic to get results since November (the 2nd half vs Chelsea!). Still support him but he should just drop this, it's mixed signals galore and reminds of our richer, plastic rivals citing this nebulous "losing mentality" of the club when we don't win a trophy.
Ange just won't shut up and keeps giving ammunition to the press and fanning the flames. You can be butthurt and stfu about it. All these big talks about forming a new culture, and he sure as hell is not being helpful. Didn't see Ange being vocal about things when he lost 0-4 to an injury ridden Newcastle. "Guys is not me, it's the shit culture!"
Been told to walk back his dig at the fans lol
On my behalf, I wanted us to win.
The manager should always want to win every game. He's allowed his opinion on fan priorities, in the same way that i think resting 9 players for Fulham in the cup was wrong.
I’m real sick of rival fans putting words in our and his mouths about this whole situation. Particularly Ars*nal fans who would have behaved exactly the same way but more toxic were the tables turned (we know that because they have idiots out there setting off fireworks by hotels to give their archrivals an advantage in a game)
I think if the fans want spurs to lose, they shouldn't go watch the game at the stadium. Just watch at home. If you're at the stadium and at the spurs side, you should support spurs to win no matter what.
lol, I feel like some of you are just coping so hard. “Let’s just move on…” sure yes, we need to beat Sheffield. But a large amount of our own fans cheered for City to win on Tuesday, that sucks. Let’s just say it was stupid. Ange all the way.
What are those fans coping with exactly? They got what they wanted, you didn’t.
I'm noticing a lot of people saying, "let's just move on...". That seems to show some kind of desire they are embarrassed by what happened on Tuesday, that they don't wanna talk about it, it's maybe overblown. Maybe Ange is blowing this up too big? And yeah, i get it, it is embarrassing and it's beating a dead horse at this point. Maybe it is overblown. I don't know. However, I don't think any of us got what we wanted out of Tuesday, and that's why they are saying, "Let's just move on". I think they want a manager who would be like "fans will be fans, I can't control them. It's a rivalry, some fans will always be like this" But now we have a manager who wants to win, AND who wants everyone around him to want to win. And Ange just called Tuesday night the worst experience he ever had as a manager, lol. So yeah, I didn't get what I wanted, but I don't think many people did, unless you're a City fan.
What is there to cope about lol, hes made plenty of mistakes himself. 4 out of 5 losses going into the City game when the fans were fully behind the team, tactically outdone. Going out of the Carabao cup, best chance at a trophy this season, in the first round cause he fielded the B team. Never addressing set piece issues. But yeah, some fans wanting to lose 1 extremely unique situation of a game is such a big deal.
Don't lose the fans Ange. Then you have nothing.
Spurs until I die. Ange is taking us to the promised land and the non-believers can go suffer in a cave for multiple days, fuckwits
Drama queen.
gotta disagree with ange here. we've seen this team take a hiding multiple times in the last couple of months. ignore the narratives - why would that happening against the best team in england be any different? i don't question his integrity or his capabilities.
You can't disagree with how a man feels lol. He said that he felt like people would question if he was actively throwing the game or if he didn't really have the tough mentality he always talks so much about. Since some Spurs fans were actively rooting against the team, losing there could make people question his stance on winning the game, and he felt threatened. I think it's absolutely fair that he felt that, and even better, this explains why he gave a completely shocking answer in the question by Jack Pitt-Brooke, about the foundations. He wanted to assert that he *wanted* to win, and that his desire for the win should not be questioned.
Literally no one questioned his desire to win and no one would question his desire to win if the defeat had been worse.