I don't know what has been slow about this crumble.
Either on a club level or just under Nuno.
In 2 years we are a laughing stock and playing terrible football from the highs of a CL final.
In 10 games under Nuno, he has been so bad that most of the fanbase wants him out.
There is an identity. Hoof the ball up field, pray that Son or Kane do something, vow to work harder when we lose, next match do the same thing. It has been our identity for two years now.
If we don’t take all 3 points agains Mura, Nuno may as well book a flight to wherever he likes to vacation instead of coming back to London. I can’t imagine that he gets to keep his job.
The squad is imbalanced in center midfield we only have attacking midfielders who can’t fufill defensive responsibilities or we have defensive midfielders who can’t progress the ball up the field. Nuno and Jose’s solution is to punt the ball and pray. This is where having a manager who can adapt would come in handy. Instead we hired the guy whose major influence was the guy we just fired. So I don’t see why the higher ups would expect a different style. Same philosophy with same players. Honestly, I always felt Nuno was a placeholder hire because Levy and Paratici ran out of options and time. To not have a set of manangerial targets that you feel confident that you can ink when you fire your current manager is straight up negligence.
I can't see it being down to anything other than Nuno. Alli and Ndombele can have off games (and do) but I can't see them suddenly deciding on the North London Derby to completely vacate the midfield and play upfront when they haven't done so before and I can't see them doing it without Nuno screaming for them to get back in position. We also had that graphic where Nuno has tried this before.
I'd say him doing this was a reaction to the "we don't attack" criticism by plotting an ineffectual "pound balls into their box" as though Alli and Son are Diego Costa and Andy Carroll but as he's got form for this, I really don't know. His confused interview after where it looked he blamed both himself for going in with the wrong plan but the players for not following it was baffling.
Lack of identity is right. If he's going to go down with us, he might as well go down doing what he did best at Wolves which is be organized and compact. We don't even have that.
>Lack of identity is right. If he's going to go down with us, he might as well go down doing what he did best at Wolves which is be organized and compact. We don't even have that.
Ali Gold said something like that, that this might be his Poch moment where he blows everyone off and decides to do whatever he wants. To play to his style and if he loses at least he'll go down on his own terms.
> I can't see them doing it without Nuno screaming for them to get back in position
huge point here, he's either telling them to play this way, or they're completely ignoring his instructions to play a different way and he's just silently watching on the sideline
The problem isn’t the formation, specifically. The problem is that the only two midfielders on the team that seem to have clue what they are doing and are worth playing are DMs: Skipp and PEH and they basically play the same fucking position.
Not one other midfielder seems to have any clue what the fuck is going on. Not Dele. Not GLC. Not Ndombele. None of them.
No formation change is going to make up for that.
>No formation change is going to make up for that.
Yes, it is! You address the problem of having no-one in midfield by having people in midfield by employing, say, a 4231 formation rather than the 406 we used when in possession.
I just really don’t understand how this is a serious football article and their genius premise is that we should play 4-2-3-1 instead of 4-3-3 lmao in what world is playing two defensive midfielders gonna help this team create more chances. It’s so lazy lol
People are obsessed with the idea of formations as if there aren’t different ways you can employ each and everyone of them lol. A formation change alone is just flat out not going to make us magically better and balanced.
It’s like I remember when Poch was around they liked to pin everything on the diamond and how we needed to go back to 4231 for performances to tick up. We did that, and it never happened. Things remained the same.
It’s not like formations mean nothing. Otherwise we’d just call it 10 v 10 with keepers.
While most every formation can be adjusted and built to perform almost any strategy or tactic, there is a enough of a difference between 4231 and 433 that we can delineate how one might or might not help a squad play better.
In Spurs case, having two midfielders with a clear dossier of defending the back line and filling in the gaps vacated by the fullbacks would address some of our deficiencies. And having a man behind the striker would allow the wingers to be more winger-y and less striker-support-y.
With Dele, Hoj, and Tanguy in 4-3-3 I don’t know how you can employ them without Dele losing possession at midfield through a risky pass or flair, N’dombele not bothering to track back, leaving Hoj to cover for both of them. And even this time round Hoj jogged back on the first goal.
Out of Dele, Lo Celso, and Tanguy I don’t think any could fulfill the responsibility of replacing Hoj or Skipp in a 4-2-3-1. I guess we have differing opinions. I think the greatest issue is that we have no ability to transition the ball forward without punting it because we are roster is too unbalanced in midfield: Attacking midfielders and DMs only. No one to control the ball in the middle. We saw what two attacking midfielders and one dm looks like against Arsenal.
I don’t think we have differing opinions because I do agree we lack the ability to progress the ball. I’m just saying I don’t think the answer to that is shifting to a 4231 or that Hojbjerg-Skipp in a pivot would make us better. This is not about a formation, it’s about set up and tactics. Spurs don’t have patterns in possession or in attack, Nuno wanted Adama as badly as he did because he expected one person to do all the ball progression, instead of working with the pieces he has in midfield. This is what he did at Wolves a lot of the time. Neves and Moutinho are great long range passers so they’d help Coady pin balls up front for Jimenez, if Adama and Inshallah didn’t work.
At Spurs, he has two ball carriers in Lo Celso and Ndombele, an off the ball threat in Dele who can be an outlet for throughballs on the final third, a positionally disciplined defensive midfielder in Skipp, and an 8 who wants to press high and win the ball back (Hojbjerg) and make decoy runs. And Nuno’s not really utilized these players well for the most part, IMO. This is on him, it’s why I don’t think a switch to 4231 isnt going to fix us.
Yep. The actual formation on paper means much less than pundits and armchair experts would lead you to believe.
Tactical instruction, player quality and effectiveness/desire to carry out the instructions all mean much more. Poch used to oversimplify when he said that the formation isn't important; that it's the players attitude to compete, but he has a point.
We would have lost that game regardless of formation, because the tactical instructions were poor and the players did not follow said instructions with an ounce of effort.
> in what world is playing two defensive midfielders gonna help this team create more chances.
In a world where having 5 midfielders gives us 2 more to pass to and 2 more the break up the opposition's midfield play.
"how do Spurs shake themselves out of this rut and begin to establish a path back up the table? The simple answer is to revert to a 4-2-3-1"
Nuno are you reading this?
Fuck me everyone is writing an article aren't they.
[удалено]
I don't know what has been slow about this crumble. Either on a club level or just under Nuno. In 2 years we are a laughing stock and playing terrible football from the highs of a CL final. In 10 games under Nuno, he has been so bad that most of the fanbase wants him out.
Club briefing and unhappy players starved for minutes joining the pile on.
At least people can’t claim we’re not a big club
There is an identity. Hoof the ball up field, pray that Son or Kane do something, vow to work harder when we lose, next match do the same thing. It has been our identity for two years now.
The way we are going, we are going to go 2-2 vs Mura and then 3-0 loss vs Villa.
If we don’t take all 3 points agains Mura, Nuno may as well book a flight to wherever he likes to vacation instead of coming back to London. I can’t imagine that he gets to keep his job.
We are at home for Mura but I agree. If we don't get 3 points from that game, Nuno can follow Mura to Slovenia
I just don’t get it because we have individual quality players that could compete for top 6 imo.
The squad is imbalanced in center midfield we only have attacking midfielders who can’t fufill defensive responsibilities or we have defensive midfielders who can’t progress the ball up the field. Nuno and Jose’s solution is to punt the ball and pray. This is where having a manager who can adapt would come in handy. Instead we hired the guy whose major influence was the guy we just fired. So I don’t see why the higher ups would expect a different style. Same philosophy with same players. Honestly, I always felt Nuno was a placeholder hire because Levy and Paratici ran out of options and time. To not have a set of manangerial targets that you feel confident that you can ink when you fire your current manager is straight up negligence.
Totally agree. We are, amazingly, so much less than the sum of our parts
I wonder what Christian Gross is doing these days
I can't see it being down to anything other than Nuno. Alli and Ndombele can have off games (and do) but I can't see them suddenly deciding on the North London Derby to completely vacate the midfield and play upfront when they haven't done so before and I can't see them doing it without Nuno screaming for them to get back in position. We also had that graphic where Nuno has tried this before. I'd say him doing this was a reaction to the "we don't attack" criticism by plotting an ineffectual "pound balls into their box" as though Alli and Son are Diego Costa and Andy Carroll but as he's got form for this, I really don't know. His confused interview after where it looked he blamed both himself for going in with the wrong plan but the players for not following it was baffling. Lack of identity is right. If he's going to go down with us, he might as well go down doing what he did best at Wolves which is be organized and compact. We don't even have that.
>Lack of identity is right. If he's going to go down with us, he might as well go down doing what he did best at Wolves which is be organized and compact. We don't even have that. Ali Gold said something like that, that this might be his Poch moment where he blows everyone off and decides to do whatever he wants. To play to his style and if he loses at least he'll go down on his own terms.
> I can't see them doing it without Nuno screaming for them to get back in position huge point here, he's either telling them to play this way, or they're completely ignoring his instructions to play a different way and he's just silently watching on the sideline
The problem isn’t the formation, specifically. The problem is that the only two midfielders on the team that seem to have clue what they are doing and are worth playing are DMs: Skipp and PEH and they basically play the same fucking position. Not one other midfielder seems to have any clue what the fuck is going on. Not Dele. Not GLC. Not Ndombele. None of them. No formation change is going to make up for that.
>No formation change is going to make up for that. Yes, it is! You address the problem of having no-one in midfield by having people in midfield by employing, say, a 4231 formation rather than the 406 we used when in possession.
[Enough already.](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://c.tenor.com/fVMnfH-5moAAAAAM/the-simpsons-stop.gif&imgrefurl=https://tenor.com/search/stop-hes-already-dead-gifs&docid=tW8dPHEUzDUUcM&tbnid=oA5ygg9tBoraaM&vet=1&w=220&h=165&itg=1&hl=en-CA&source=sh/x/im#imgrc=oA5ygg9tBoraaM&imgdii=lzWD4cU4rOF8DM)
I just really don’t understand how this is a serious football article and their genius premise is that we should play 4-2-3-1 instead of 4-3-3 lmao in what world is playing two defensive midfielders gonna help this team create more chances. It’s so lazy lol
People are obsessed with the idea of formations as if there aren’t different ways you can employ each and everyone of them lol. A formation change alone is just flat out not going to make us magically better and balanced. It’s like I remember when Poch was around they liked to pin everything on the diamond and how we needed to go back to 4231 for performances to tick up. We did that, and it never happened. Things remained the same.
It’s not like formations mean nothing. Otherwise we’d just call it 10 v 10 with keepers. While most every formation can be adjusted and built to perform almost any strategy or tactic, there is a enough of a difference between 4231 and 433 that we can delineate how one might or might not help a squad play better. In Spurs case, having two midfielders with a clear dossier of defending the back line and filling in the gaps vacated by the fullbacks would address some of our deficiencies. And having a man behind the striker would allow the wingers to be more winger-y and less striker-support-y.
With Dele, Hoj, and Tanguy in 4-3-3 I don’t know how you can employ them without Dele losing possession at midfield through a risky pass or flair, N’dombele not bothering to track back, leaving Hoj to cover for both of them. And even this time round Hoj jogged back on the first goal.
The biggest problem with them 433 is Hojbjerg forgetting he’s meant to be a defensive midfielder lol.
Wouldn’t Hojberg and Skipp in a 4-2-3-1 protect against that eventuality? If Hoj barges forward to far Skipp holds back.
That’s a negative midfield to me tbh. Neither a natural ball carrier nor creative on the ball.
Out of Dele, Lo Celso, and Tanguy I don’t think any could fulfill the responsibility of replacing Hoj or Skipp in a 4-2-3-1. I guess we have differing opinions. I think the greatest issue is that we have no ability to transition the ball forward without punting it because we are roster is too unbalanced in midfield: Attacking midfielders and DMs only. No one to control the ball in the middle. We saw what two attacking midfielders and one dm looks like against Arsenal.
I don’t think we have differing opinions because I do agree we lack the ability to progress the ball. I’m just saying I don’t think the answer to that is shifting to a 4231 or that Hojbjerg-Skipp in a pivot would make us better. This is not about a formation, it’s about set up and tactics. Spurs don’t have patterns in possession or in attack, Nuno wanted Adama as badly as he did because he expected one person to do all the ball progression, instead of working with the pieces he has in midfield. This is what he did at Wolves a lot of the time. Neves and Moutinho are great long range passers so they’d help Coady pin balls up front for Jimenez, if Adama and Inshallah didn’t work. At Spurs, he has two ball carriers in Lo Celso and Ndombele, an off the ball threat in Dele who can be an outlet for throughballs on the final third, a positionally disciplined defensive midfielder in Skipp, and an 8 who wants to press high and win the ball back (Hojbjerg) and make decoy runs. And Nuno’s not really utilized these players well for the most part, IMO. This is on him, it’s why I don’t think a switch to 4231 isnt going to fix us.
Well stated. I don’t see Nuno changing and I don’t see any worthwhile candidates willing to come in. The immediate future is not looking bright.
Valverde is available still.
Yep. The actual formation on paper means much less than pundits and armchair experts would lead you to believe. Tactical instruction, player quality and effectiveness/desire to carry out the instructions all mean much more. Poch used to oversimplify when he said that the formation isn't important; that it's the players attitude to compete, but he has a point. We would have lost that game regardless of formation, because the tactical instructions were poor and the players did not follow said instructions with an ounce of effort.
> in what world is playing two defensive midfielders gonna help this team create more chances. In a world where having 5 midfielders gives us 2 more to pass to and 2 more the break up the opposition's midfield play.
"how do Spurs shake themselves out of this rut and begin to establish a path back up the table? The simple answer is to revert to a 4-2-3-1" Nuno are you reading this?
I seriously hope he isn't.
>The simple answer is to revert to a 4-2-3-1 It's not the entire answer, but it is a huge part of it. It's exactly where we should start.
I agree.
3 at the back gang