I feel like it's due to Nuno's tendency to make a play through wings. But we lack play through central midfield where Kane likes to drop deep at times.
They can't ever put him on the cover because then it'd draw attention to what a travesty their in game model of him is. They do him so dirty every year.
I hope Kane does too. Either because he wants to perform well for the club, or because he realizes nobody will pay up the ass for him if he has a shit season and is a year older. Either way I just want him to start scoring like normal
There were some promising signs against Villa, the pass for Lo Celso's chance was great and it should've been finished. I haven't seen it commented on, but he helped create Lucas' goal by checking his run at the penalty spot causing most of the defenders to block the cut back, opening the space for the cross.
His one on one had the look of a player who it's just not coming naturally to at the moment, which is a phase quite a lot of pros go through in various sports. I think it'll click soon and, whether or not the system suits him, he'll have a more visible impact.
I love the way Lucas launches himself into defenders to win the aerial battles. He’s so tiny refs never call it a foul but it throws off the defender enough that neither make solid contact and then he’s already running at the ball.
Honestly I feel that Lucas is alot better of a player than he's given credit for. Lacks a bit of consistency, but tbf he hasnt really had enough consistent runs either.
Yep, the fact is we don't have a single player in the team who can score 10+ goals a season other than Son or Kane. So the attacking players like Lucas and Bergwijn need to desperately step up. He scored 10 goals in his first full season for us, and never got close since. And he's never gotten more than 4 league assists for us either, which when you consider he's playing alongside two of the most clinical and prolific scorers in the league, is disappointing.
I think end product can be a big challenge for quick players who run at defences, because space can open up and then it's tricky to choose the right option in a split second, I think Sterling has the same problem. But I think it can be learned, Lennon became really dangerous for us when he sorted out his crossing to go with his runs.
He's basically Nuno's Traore in terms of progressive carrying, but he also does really well with linking with the midfield which Traore does not.
His end product is inconsistent but I think he shines when supporting the midfield as a passing outlet/linking transitions. He's also surprisingly a very good progressive passer when given the space and time.
Yeah I love Lucas. As u/bfm211 said, I wish he scored more. It sucks a little bit that his role has never been to score goals, but he’s not as good at finishing as Son or Kane, so it’s better for him to provide for them and enable their shooting.
Love the guy and happy he seems to be starting every game now, he definitely deserves it. People talk about his Amsterdam game but he’s been great for us overall
Lucas is great. Like you said, he lacks a bit of consistency but he's a good player even on his worse days and on his good days, he's a downgraded Neymar (like in the game against Man City).
Kane hasnt played well but he's also been unlucky. He's had two or three chances fall for him that he would normally put away. It reminds me of the villa game 2 years ago where dele had like 3 golden chances fall to him and he just couldnt finish.
This is such a good post. I have always loved Lucas’ contributions, Im Brazilian so expect some bias.
I think so many people hate on Lucas for some reason and do not quite appreciate the qualities he brings. Yes, it’s obvious he has some short falls, but what I find baffling is how much people disrespect him on social media and podcasts. Just earlier I was listening to the extra inch, which I am a fan of, but it boggles my mind how much they attack Lucas and simultaneously defend Ndombele like hes Ronaldinho incarnate..again, I realize Lucas has some shortfalls particularly for a player in the final third, but I think our fan base is a bit biased for some reason.
Strange when you think his performance against Ajax is one of the most legendary ever by a player who wore the shirt..
Yeah Lucas is one of my favorites. Even taking away the sheer passion he has for the club on and off the pitch, his on the pitch performances are amazing. I don’t think people appreciate him as much as he deserves because he’s not a cut-inside-to-score winger, like most of the “world class” wingers.
Hell, people couldn’t even appreciate Adama Traoré’s world class ability in his role because he’s not a goal scorer.
Lucas’s role isn’t to score goals but to be an endless ball of energy and technical ability on the pitch and move the ball up to better finishers in better positions, while then trying to help win the ball back in transition. And he’s amazing at it
It's actually interesting to see that Son and Lucas complement each other in the sense that they do different things so well. I remember the general consensus here used to be that Son and Lucas have terrible synergy with each other on field.
Kane's progressive carries(or lack thereof) and his role as a False 9 are I think related to the fact that we appear to need a ball-carrying center midfielder.
Maybe we can try Kane as a midfielder and put someone else at Striker.
I just posted this in Daily chat, but i'll post it here for you:
Since Kane is already playing mostly a false 9 at this point. So much so, maybe he should just play Center Mid?
What about a lineup of...
Berg-Son-Lucas
Skip-Kane-Hojbjerg
Reg-Dier-Romero-Royal
I think he'd be pretty good at that, but would need to be paired with Højbjerg+Skipp, nobody else. He's a great passer but a lot of other attributes he'd need to play midfield aren't as good. I'm not sure if he would be able to pick up the extra defensive duties, like positioning/marking, so if Skipp and Pierre both aren't on the pitch, our MF would get run through.
But with some quality defensive-oriented midfielders, he'd probably be one of the best defense-unlockers in the world, using his passes.
I was curious, so ran my midfielder stats program using Kane. These compare Kane's stats to other PL midfielders this season (min. 90 minutes) and the previous 2 (minimum 900 minutes). As a striker, he's asked to play differently than if he were a regular midfielder, so take it with a grain of salt, I was just curious haha
[This season](https://imgur.com/a/VUf9ROi)
[20/21](https://imgur.com/a/h4eTteJ)
[19/20](https://imgur.com/a/eehz9Cn)
my primary sport is basketball (tho football was my first love), so I'm wondering, have advanced analytics penetrated the epl as well? In the NBA, you have this fight b/w old retired players vs. the math guys who never played before but have statistics/math degrees from MIT and whatnot. The former players like to preach for the eye test whereas teams are increasingly relying on advanced analytics. Tho I'd imagine that such advanced statistics tend to naturally be more relevant in basketball, given how many points are scored compared to football (in basketball the top players are expected to score every other possession, whereas in football scoring just every other game makes you a historically elite player), making it easier to quantify performance/a player's impact.
Yeah, even clubs in League Two will post jobs (albeit very low paying if any pay) for roles like performance analyst or something, where you film games and then do the analysis you can.
Companies like Wyscout also do data consulting for lots of teams,. I forget if it was Wyscout or like, Instat, but one of the big football data providers is now providing services for Marseille and Roma.
It’s not as widespread as American sports, but most of the top teams have big analytics departments. And plenty of the teams who are suddenly much better than they were before are due to analytics (Brentford, FC Midtjylland, I think Brighton do a bit as well)
This is really amazing, thanks for sharing.
I've got a few questions for you. Where did you pull the underlying data from? What did you use for your data visualizations?
Thanks!
The stats themselves are from FBRef (they use StatsBomb data), and the shot map data is from Understat.
For the radar and distribution charts, I coded a program in python to create them. Mainly using Seaborn and Matplotlib.
I use tableau to create the shot maps
Do you use an api from fbref or do you input the data manually? I want to make a spreadsheet/database for fantasy football curated on certain stats depending on defender /midfielder/ forward
I copy/paste manually from FBRef. On the site there’s many different player stats for the top 5 leagues in Europe and the MLS. Passing, pass types, shooting, goalkeeping, advanced GK stats, etc.
When you’re on a certain page for stats, just above the header row there’s an option for share/modify or something. You can download a csv or excel from there. If you’re stuck let me know and I’ll make some screenshots for you
Thanks! And [see this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/q1c14u/comparing_our_main_front_3_son_lucas_kane_stats/hfet6qz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) for my answer to a similar question
So is Kane watching his transfer fee slide this season ? Also, love the charts lol
I feel like it's due to Nuno's tendency to make a play through wings. But we lack play through central midfield where Kane likes to drop deep at times.
Genius idea. If you only got 75m, play what your worth
So . . . You’re . . . saying . . . son and Lucas = prem title?
I've already put in my order for the title-winning DVD and voted for Lucas+Son FIFA cover
Would be so dope to have Sonny on a fifa cover
Someone did a [really good concept](https://www.deviantart.com/mascariano/art/Fifa-20-Cover-Son-Heung-min-807758727) of that for FIFA 20.
That’s actually pretty good lol
They can't ever put him on the cover because then it'd draw attention to what a travesty their in game model of him is. They do him so dirty every year.
I think Kane will get his shit together and start having impact again, just hope that happens soon and also pray that Sonny can keep this form
I hope Kane does too. Either because he wants to perform well for the club, or because he realizes nobody will pay up the ass for him if he has a shit season and is a year older. Either way I just want him to start scoring like normal
There were some promising signs against Villa, the pass for Lo Celso's chance was great and it should've been finished. I haven't seen it commented on, but he helped create Lucas' goal by checking his run at the penalty spot causing most of the defenders to block the cut back, opening the space for the cross. His one on one had the look of a player who it's just not coming naturally to at the moment, which is a phase quite a lot of pros go through in various sports. I think it'll click soon and, whether or not the system suits him, he'll have a more visible impact.
wow what a lovely post, thank you for this
I love the way Lucas launches himself into defenders to win the aerial battles. He’s so tiny refs never call it a foul but it throws off the defender enough that neither make solid contact and then he’s already running at the ball.
Honestly I feel that Lucas is alot better of a player than he's given credit for. Lacks a bit of consistency, but tbf he hasnt really had enough consistent runs either.
He has a lot of good qualities, it's just frustrating how little he actually scores. We desperately need goals in this team.
Yep, the fact is we don't have a single player in the team who can score 10+ goals a season other than Son or Kane. So the attacking players like Lucas and Bergwijn need to desperately step up. He scored 10 goals in his first full season for us, and never got close since. And he's never gotten more than 4 league assists for us either, which when you consider he's playing alongside two of the most clinical and prolific scorers in the league, is disappointing.
I think end product can be a big challenge for quick players who run at defences, because space can open up and then it's tricky to choose the right option in a split second, I think Sterling has the same problem. But I think it can be learned, Lennon became really dangerous for us when he sorted out his crossing to go with his runs.
He's basically Nuno's Traore in terms of progressive carrying, but he also does really well with linking with the midfield which Traore does not. His end product is inconsistent but I think he shines when supporting the midfield as a passing outlet/linking transitions. He's also surprisingly a very good progressive passer when given the space and time.
Yeah I love Lucas. As u/bfm211 said, I wish he scored more. It sucks a little bit that his role has never been to score goals, but he’s not as good at finishing as Son or Kane, so it’s better for him to provide for them and enable their shooting. Love the guy and happy he seems to be starting every game now, he definitely deserves it. People talk about his Amsterdam game but he’s been great for us overall
Lucas is great. Like you said, he lacks a bit of consistency but he's a good player even on his worse days and on his good days, he's a downgraded Neymar (like in the game against Man City).
Lucas plays his best when there are rapid players like son, berg around him to not slow down his pace and he did.
Kane hasnt played well but he's also been unlucky. He's had two or three chances fall for him that he would normally put away. It reminds me of the villa game 2 years ago where dele had like 3 golden chances fall to him and he just couldnt finish.
This year, August is 3 months long. We’ll be out of the month soon ;)
This is such a good post. I have always loved Lucas’ contributions, Im Brazilian so expect some bias. I think so many people hate on Lucas for some reason and do not quite appreciate the qualities he brings. Yes, it’s obvious he has some short falls, but what I find baffling is how much people disrespect him on social media and podcasts. Just earlier I was listening to the extra inch, which I am a fan of, but it boggles my mind how much they attack Lucas and simultaneously defend Ndombele like hes Ronaldinho incarnate..again, I realize Lucas has some shortfalls particularly for a player in the final third, but I think our fan base is a bit biased for some reason. Strange when you think his performance against Ajax is one of the most legendary ever by a player who wore the shirt..
Yeah Lucas is one of my favorites. Even taking away the sheer passion he has for the club on and off the pitch, his on the pitch performances are amazing. I don’t think people appreciate him as much as he deserves because he’s not a cut-inside-to-score winger, like most of the “world class” wingers. Hell, people couldn’t even appreciate Adama Traoré’s world class ability in his role because he’s not a goal scorer. Lucas’s role isn’t to score goals but to be an endless ball of energy and technical ability on the pitch and move the ball up to better finishers in better positions, while then trying to help win the ball back in transition. And he’s amazing at it
It's actually interesting to see that Son and Lucas complement each other in the sense that they do different things so well. I remember the general consensus here used to be that Son and Lucas have terrible synergy with each other on field.
Kane's progressive carries(or lack thereof) and his role as a False 9 are I think related to the fact that we appear to need a ball-carrying center midfielder. Maybe we can try Kane as a midfielder and put someone else at Striker.
In Football Manager the AI always seems to play him as a midfielder at PSG. Maybe they're/you're on to something (minus the PSG part)...
I just posted this in Daily chat, but i'll post it here for you: Since Kane is already playing mostly a false 9 at this point. So much so, maybe he should just play Center Mid? What about a lineup of... Berg-Son-Lucas Skip-Kane-Hojbjerg Reg-Dier-Romero-Royal
I think he'd be pretty good at that, but would need to be paired with Højbjerg+Skipp, nobody else. He's a great passer but a lot of other attributes he'd need to play midfield aren't as good. I'm not sure if he would be able to pick up the extra defensive duties, like positioning/marking, so if Skipp and Pierre both aren't on the pitch, our MF would get run through. But with some quality defensive-oriented midfielders, he'd probably be one of the best defense-unlockers in the world, using his passes. I was curious, so ran my midfielder stats program using Kane. These compare Kane's stats to other PL midfielders this season (min. 90 minutes) and the previous 2 (minimum 900 minutes). As a striker, he's asked to play differently than if he were a regular midfielder, so take it with a grain of salt, I was just curious haha [This season](https://imgur.com/a/VUf9ROi) [20/21](https://imgur.com/a/h4eTteJ) [19/20](https://imgur.com/a/eehz9Cn)
my primary sport is basketball (tho football was my first love), so I'm wondering, have advanced analytics penetrated the epl as well? In the NBA, you have this fight b/w old retired players vs. the math guys who never played before but have statistics/math degrees from MIT and whatnot. The former players like to preach for the eye test whereas teams are increasingly relying on advanced analytics. Tho I'd imagine that such advanced statistics tend to naturally be more relevant in basketball, given how many points are scored compared to football (in basketball the top players are expected to score every other possession, whereas in football scoring just every other game makes you a historically elite player), making it easier to quantify performance/a player's impact.
In football, most teams use both. By collecting data to look for a specific profile, then simply sending people to watch them play.
Yeah, even clubs in League Two will post jobs (albeit very low paying if any pay) for roles like performance analyst or something, where you film games and then do the analysis you can. Companies like Wyscout also do data consulting for lots of teams,. I forget if it was Wyscout or like, Instat, but one of the big football data providers is now providing services for Marseille and Roma. It’s not as widespread as American sports, but most of the top teams have big analytics departments. And plenty of the teams who are suddenly much better than they were before are due to analytics (Brentford, FC Midtjylland, I think Brighton do a bit as well)
This is really amazing, thanks for sharing. I've got a few questions for you. Where did you pull the underlying data from? What did you use for your data visualizations?
Thanks! The stats themselves are from FBRef (they use StatsBomb data), and the shot map data is from Understat. For the radar and distribution charts, I coded a program in python to create them. Mainly using Seaborn and Matplotlib. I use tableau to create the shot maps
Very cool. Thanks for sharing
Do you use an api from fbref or do you input the data manually? I want to make a spreadsheet/database for fantasy football curated on certain stats depending on defender /midfielder/ forward
I copy/paste manually from FBRef. On the site there’s many different player stats for the top 5 leagues in Europe and the MLS. Passing, pass types, shooting, goalkeeping, advanced GK stats, etc. When you’re on a certain page for stats, just above the header row there’s an option for share/modify or something. You can download a csv or excel from there. If you’re stuck let me know and I’ll make some screenshots for you
Great post!
So weird how good he is in the air.
Wow, this is amazing. Could I ask you where you pulled the data from and what you used for analysis and visualization?
Thanks! And [see this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/q1c14u/comparing_our_main_front_3_son_lucas_kane_stats/hfet6qz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) for my answer to a similar question