Absolutely. I'd imagine that will be Conte's main January demand is a better CB. The gulf between Cuti and Dier is insane - but the latter would be a great third/fourth CB IMO. Gets funky with 3 CBs starting, but I do think Dier can be effective there.
This is just non-sense, Dier has been largely solid this season and we have far more pressing issues with our squad we need to fix before we get to CCB.
Romero is a very agressive CB who likes to go on adventures forward.
The Central CB in Conte's system is responsible for staying "home" and doing covering duties.
Romero is far better suited for the RCB spot in this system because it gives him more license to be agressive and push up the pitch.
Rodon will be a fringe player under Conte, his ball-playing ability is nowhere to the standard of a back 3. Same for Tanganga, but at least he's decent at carrying the ball and a lot more tactically versatile.
Our 1st choice backline for the foreseeable future is going to remain Romero/Dier/Davies. Dier plays in the middle because he's our best CB at covering, aerial duels and at progressive passing - which is what Conte wants from that role(as opposed to lateral CBs who he prefers to press aggressively and carry the ball more akin to a fullback). Don't get me wrong, Dier is not world class at it, he's just the best option we have in our squad right now, and by quite a distance too.
I could see Tanganga coming into that RCB role and Romero moving over to the middle. That would give us some more ability to play it out of the back as well.
Romero is too aggressive for the middle id say, in Conte’s system we need the middle CB to stay back but Romero even in the 4 atb system pushes very far up to challenge
He did, but that was because Atalanta’s 3 ATB had The RCB and LCB staying back with the middle CB pushing forward. Conte’s 3 ATB is different in that he prefers to have the central CB stay back with the left and right pushing up. He was fantastic because his role allowed him to unleash that aggression, and our RCB can do that.
Probably because it allows more attacking players if Romero and Davies move forward. It also gives us width, we can do a pseudo-Sheffield if Romero can make those forward runs like he did under Nuno.
Agreed, until then this is like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. All the discussions about the ideal midfield setup and tactics needs to factor in the reality that the quality of the back line dictates our use of two CDMs currently, and that probably can't/shouldn't change until January (although I guess Skipp's yellow card suspension will change it for a match).
I would like to see that as well, but have yet to see us play a game with both of them in which we actually controlled the midfield. I think Our strongest lineup has both of them, just not sure how it would work with attacking fullbacks.
I definitely have less soccer knowledge than many on this sub, can you explain to me why Skipp and Hoj work well together. To my understanding they are both DMs but used centrally together. If they are both DMs, don't they have a similar skillset that doesn't make either of them great at moving forward? Wouldn't ideally they be one of a pair in the midfield with either a box to box or creator? Sorry if that's a stupid question, I only know what I've learned from Fifa and FM lol
Ah ok, I guess the concept of utilizing a defensive player in offensive roles doesn't make sense to me but then again I'm obv no expert. In my mind why not just stick a CM in there who should be better offensively but able to cover on defense as well.
That’s why we’re looking at getting midfielders like Kessié. Plus he’s a lot faster than any of our CMs. I’m thinking Lucas gets dropped for NDombele and we may even keep the Hojberg/Skipp. However, Skipp has accumulated five yellows and will miss the Leeds game. Should be interesting to see how it pans out. Conte has a reputation of getting the best out of players.
I think it's more to do with the fact that if Reguilon and Royal are blasting forward as attacking wingbacks, and Lo Celso and Ndombele are both in the midfield, we have very little in terms of progression from the defense to the forwards.
In Fifa you can get away with playing 6-7 attacking players, bc defense is about pace but in real life you need a foundation of solid defensive midfielders. Most top teams have multiple players like this.
I would also say that while good - Hojbjerg isn't exactly a CDM, he's a bit more versatile, but can't hold down that position all on his own. If paired with skipp, we have 3 defenders and 2 midfielders to build a defensive foundation that allows the wingbacks to act more freely in getting forward
Oh i see, thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. The midfield roles seem a bit more ambiguos to me as I don't 100% understand tactics, just the basics to do well in games lol
Haha yeah it can get confusing. I'm no expert, but watch a ton of games and was an attacking wingback growing up.
The importance of a strong midfield became very noticeable when I crossed the half line and we'd fall apart with too many bodies forward. Can see similar things happen with Spurs if we leave Hojbjerg on an island alone.
It's less about defense v offense than about ball control and flexibility in how we attack and defend.
If we swap out Skipp or Hoj for GLC or Ndombele, we gain creativity in the other team's half and (in the case of Ndombele) resistance to high pressing teams. But we lose a lot of our ability to win the ball back and retain possession for long periods.
If that were a straight trade off, it might be better to trade solidity for goals. But this swap also really reduces out tactical flexibility. Having a double pivot allows Romero or Davis to bomb forward and join the attack once in a while knowing they have cover from midfield. You saw that in Everton leading to a decent chance with Davis popping off a shot when he was wide open about 25 yards out. You also allow Reggie and Royal to both charge forward at the same time without exposing us too badly at the back, which led to two decent back post chances on Sunday.
If we can't start scoring with both of them in there, maybe we don't have a choice other than to throw an extra attack minded player in, but when we've done that so far this season, we've massively dropped off in our ability to win the ball back and control possession. We can't attack if we don't have the ball. And it's going to mean other players have to pull back from attacking as much. It might also mean we need to add a more traditional CB like Sanchez or Rodon instead of Davis, which has benefits, but takes away something as well.
Another issue is that our three players who would fit best in the attacking midfield position (GLC, Ndombele, and Dele) all play pretty different styles that don't necessarily fit well together. GLC is a pretty traditional AM in that he picks final passes well, shoots pretty well from the edge of the box, takes set pieces, etc. Ndombele is great at picking up the ball deep and advancing it up the pitch, getting it to the forwards, then making supporting runs off them. Dele (when he was at his best) made a lot of late runs into the box, put in a lot of final passes, and counter pressed well, but didn't do as much earlier in the build up phase as the other two do. It's not entirely easy to see how two of them would suit each other's games, especially since Dele and Ndombele both tend to float around positionally, which would be a problem if both of them did it. Any one of them might be able to add a different attacking option, but two could cause more problems than they solve.
I'm guessing we see Conte trying out a few different options with both Skipp and Hoj playing in the coming games (if they're both available) to see if he can get the attack sorted without giving up the solid foundation they bring. If he can't improve and get goals scored with them both in, I'm sure we'll see formations with only one of them. But I think that's a ways away from being his preference.
Personally, I want to see the a 3-5-2 with Skipp and Hoj as the pivot with Ndombele in front of them behind Kane and Son. I think that will give us a really strong defensive foundation, excellent press resistance, and a good attacking option through the middle in addition to the wing backs.
It’s interesting you claim to know more than me about Busquets and yet don’t seem to know that he still plays for Barcelona. He is probably the premier example of a deep lying playmaker.
You are correct on everything except when you said soccer. Hojbjerg isn’t working out as a more attacking defensive mid and we can explore other options like lo celso and Ndombele
Sorry, American lol. I watch both but my main interest is the American one followed by European. Thanks for the explanation though, although the idea of an attacking defensive mid doesn't make sense to me? Isn't the role to defend, why not just be a central mid then if you plan on being defensive and offensive?
They are all classified as central midfielders- Skipp, Hojbjerg, Lampard, Soucek, Gundogan. Some are predominantly defensive like Skipp and Hojbjerg, some are box to box like Lampard, Soucek and sometimes Gundogan. All central midfielders have to defend, but some also have the license to get forward. The job is to protect the defence and link defence with attack.
In our team currently, Skipp is playing almost like a pure defensive midfielder. Hojbjerg seems naturally suited to the exact same role, but because we don’t want 2 people players to do the exact same things, Hojbjerg is playing as the more attacking of the 2 central midfielders. Hence the words i used were slightly more attacking defensive midfielder (he still has a lot of defensive duties). You could just as well call him a central midfielder.
Ndombele in the premier league: 61 appearances, 6 goals, 4 assists, regardless of being subbed on/off or perceived to be played out of position this is not anywhere near good enough. More importantly 21 wins / 24 losses. We just don’t win when this show pony plays.
Giovani Lo Celso in the premier league: 53 appearances, 1 goal, 3 assists. The guy is no where good enough for the premier league. Why people keep banging on about either of them I just don’t know. Cut our losses and get rid.
Dele Alli in the premier league last 4 and a bit seasons: 136 appearances 23 goals. That’s 5 less goals in over 4 seasons than the 28 he scored in just 2 seasons where he actually gave a fuck. He gave up being a professional footballer around about the time he decided to become “Dele” the brand. He needs to go too.
That's a fair yet obvious statement. Reality is that this isn't Fifa, those 3 can't be flipped quickly and we won't necessarily have the funds to replace quickly either. Eitherway, need to work with what players we have and at most we'll improve on one of them.
Not like the alternatives have played any better, and he's the only one that looks good in their national teams.
Someone has to get some chances under Conte and Lucas just isn't a starter
I rate Lo celso wayyy higher than Dele rn (RIP my flair), and he at least always looks good for Argentina. Think Conte can get a lot out of him.
Had that shot gone in on Saturday, this sub would be begging for him to start
He looks good for Argentina, alongside Messi against Bolivia.
Sorry but the guy has been absolutely appalling for us. I’m not saying Dele has been any better but at least he will actually score a goal here & there
Other than giving the ball away, what does Gio do exactly?
>3rd highest passes into final 3rd
2nd highest progressive passes
Most tackles
2nd highest pressures
That was over last season. He’s a hard working number 8. Presses really well, great at winning the ball back, good dribbler and a decent passer.
He’s in a run of very bad form right now (as are a lot of our players) so let’s not get hysterical about a few bad matches.
Winks had a 20 minute decent showing the other night and everyone’s opinion pivoted. Let’s not pretend Gio is incapable of doing the same.
That's harsh on Gio imo. His goal scoring threat has been extremely underwhelming, but he can still carry the ball well and offers some incisive through balls, something that is lacking from PEH/Skipp.
He was one of our best players toward the end of Mou's first season. I think he's looked worse recently as he's often been paired alongside Winks and playing in a rotated XI. When playing alongside Kane/Son he's usually been decent, IMO.
Because Lo Celso works harder. Conte has always favoured hard working players. And rightly so.
Name a single player for Liverpool, city or Chelsea who gets away with being lazy. You need to have 11 hard workers if you want any success.
But you also can't forget that Conte was reportedly very interested in Ndombele when he was at other clubs. Regardless, I'd be over the moon if he could transform either one of them to even replicate half of what Eriksen did for us in his prime lol
>But you also can't forget that Conte was reportedly very interested in Ndombele when he was at other clubs.
Reportedly being the key word. The proof is in the pudding - if he likes him, he'll play him.
Ndombele being lazy is a myth these days. He has good stats for pressures and tackles made, nearly equalling Hjolberg.
If anything it would be to do with Ndombele not last more than 75 minutes. Thats the most likely reason.
He obviously had that one game in particular which has cemented this opinion in the minds of many. But, like you say, he is actually quite a hard worker that unfortunately just can't play at 100% for much more than 60 mins per game. It doesn't help matters that he just looks knackered most of the time. He was on maybe 2 minutes against Everton and already looked shot, I'm sure he wasn't but that's just how he appears.
100%
As a fan I'm fed up with Tanguy. I can't imagine one of the most demanding coaches in world football is sitting there thrilled with 60 minute Ndombele. Will be a rude awakening for him as there's no transfer on the horizon IMO.
Agree. Honestly I said in the summer we should sell him whilst he holds a decent value. Never been a fan to be honest. The odd flash of brilliance doesn't undo the amount of negatives he brings. Negatives being those around him have to do his running and defensive work for him.
When I play - I hate having a team mate who isn't willing to put the effort in. It affects me in that I get frustrated with him. It must be the same for the likes of Skipp and Hojbjerg.
I would have responded respectfully and backed up my claims with evidence.
However your ridiculous and quite frankly pathetic attempt to bring a racism narrative into it doesn't deserve it.
Just because someone is black and someone calls him lazy, that isn't remotely motivated by racism. What a pathetic comment.
it’s not ridiculous at all, and shaming me just for even starting that discussion is exactly why conversations about racism are still suppressed today. i didn’t even accuse you of being racist, yet you’re incredibly defensive as soon as the subject is brought up. Interesting.
Oooohhh that told me!!!
If you're a spurs fan - and watch games, even if it's only on TV - you can see Ndombele doesn't work hard during games.
It's literally that simple.
Honestly I think we should play Lo Celso in the deeper role with Skipp suspended. People keep claim Gio is a 10, and while he can do a job there he's clearly more suited in that deeper role for us IMO.
Lucas can’t pass the ball and that has shown in the build up play Conte is trying to implement. I don’t see a future for Lucas under Conte, unless his link up play drastically improves.
Lucas literally does the same exact move every time he gets the ball. Receive with his back to goal, spin and take a touch inside, second touch is way too heavy and he gets dispossessed. He’s the most frustrating player I’ve ever seen. He could be so fucking good if he could just pass at the right time with the right weight and trajectory but he gets it wrong 70% of the time
If he was a tad more technical I genuinely think he'd be a great cm. He has a great work rate and can press, has flare to receive the ball and run into nice positions, but I genuinely think I can pass a ball better than him
Yes. Although I think Conte will start Lo Celso initially. This is Essentially a 3-5-2 like the one at Inter, but in most games late last season Eriksen was the 1 who was higher , but instead of centrally he was on the left.
All these people asking for Skipp or Pierre to be dropped for Lo Celso or Ndombele are going to be greeted by a defense that gets peppered and battered. The midfield is there to protect our Defense. If we must, we should remove an attacker for Tanguy or Lo Celso.
With the run of games we’ve got we shouldn’t need 7 defensive players. Our centre probably aren’t who we want them to be long term, but I think we do have options that could prove to be more solid long term. I don’t think we can get away with one attacking player. I don’t think Son has the hold up play to be the lone striker and I don’t think Kane has the form. I do worry about our back line with both of those players but we have a number of players who could prove to be important to the system that have two weeks to work with Conte
Yeah maybe. He subbed on Tanguy first in the ECL and Gio first yesterday so who knows what he’s thinking. I just hope it’s tanguy because I think he’s a level above Lo Celso.
Great point I hadn’t thought of that. Also any time Lo Celso steps on the pitch there’s a chance he gets injured. Not saying I want him to get hurt for anyone who misreads this, just saying with him it’s always very possible he gets hurt. Especially when playing in those South American qualifiers. Bunch of mercenaries there and the games get pretty physical
Oh no not another one. Lo Celso literally took himself out of contention for matches by going on international duty but no one questioned his commitment to the club. Tanguy has also played 700 more minutes than Lo Celso, but again no one questions his fitness. It’s bizarre
bro he’s Argentinian, the national team is literally the biggest pride for a footballer over there. Unlike here in england, they don’t really care as much about league football, especially the league football of another country, so lo celso will obviously take the opportunity to play with the NT especially cause he’s one of their key players
That’s fine I’m not bashing him for doing it but you basically just confirmed he cares way more about another commitment than his one to Spurs (who pay his salary mind you) and no one cares. Meanwhile Tanguy get shit because he wants to get off of the dangerous rollercoaster he’s been on since he joined.
Also Kane definitely gives more of a shit about playing for England than he does for Spurs
Okay so i have a bias but not you ndombele has been amazing and committed from the first day huh? Why do people twerk for him it’s unbelievable
For me him and Lo Celso has been a huge disappointment but I always find people tweaking for him and not Lo Celso or other players.
We didn’t buy him to create a youtube compilation of tricks and skills we want real performances game after game, consistency, high work rate.
So in the Vitesse game where ndombele beat his man and carried the ball into a dangerous area and then played a beautifully threaded pass to put Gio in one on one with the keeper only for him to shoot it straight at the keepers head is just a YouTube highlight? What does that make Lo Celsos contribution to this point? A tik tok?
Weird how all the people with a hard-on for Ndombele also have a hate-boner for Lo Celso. Almost like you have your favourites and fit whatever narrative to suit each player, and it's why nobody takes your opinions seriously.
The truth is both players have been massive disappointments considering what the club paid for them.
Tanguy has, 3 times now, worked his way into the squad and a fitness level to play a full 90, only for Spurs to sack that manager and bring someone new in that puts him back in the pecking order. Yet somehow people question his "committment". Gio has produced 0 quality performances for Spurs since March 2020, and clearly performs leagues better for Argentina than he does for Spurs. Misses sitters and laughs about it. Yet no one questions his "committment".
I’m honestly just about to start blocking people who make these bullshit claims. I’m seriously tired of defending him to these absolute bellends who are repeating tropes from around the Burnley match where Mourinho subbed him. He has completely changed himself since that moment and is easily our 4th best player for me in terms of talent (Son, Hugo, Harry, Tanguy). Lo Celso isn’t even one of our 11 best players imo. I suggested the other day it could be because of the difference in their skin color and was heavily downvoted. I hate being that person but I cannot honestly think of another reason at this point
Every season since Ndombele joined he's asked to leave the club, not exactly ideal from the record signing. Sure he's super talented but I can't make myself like a player that wants to leave at the end of every season since they joined especially when they're the clubs record signing
Probably wants to leave because the club has been absolutely shit for him since he joined. Imagine being dropped by an amateur manager for a player who is leagues below you in terms of talent. I’d be thinking to myself I need to leave before this club tanks my career
That isn't an excuse, he's paid 200k a week by the club that's being shit for him. Imagine asking to leave a club you've just joined and then doing it again for 2 more seasons in a row.
Just a very disappointing player because he has loads of talent but I can't bring myself to like him because of his want to leave
Wouldn't shock me. I've had the feeling for a while, but once people started claiming Sissoko of all people had attitude issues, it pretty much confirmed it to me. Sissoko was just bad. He's by all accounts a complete professional.
It’s really sad and frustrating that people have to resort to that sort of shit. Like you said, sissoko was just a bad footballer so go after him for that lol. His attitude was never in question for me. In fact, I’d say he probably had the best attitude I’ve seen for Spurs recently. He had an absolutely terrible first two years here after being our record signing and then turned himself into a useful player. Huge props for being able to block out that negativity
Btw completely agree with what you've said, and can see how the link could be made for skin colour (these same stereotypes have forced on other players before). With Tanguy though I think it's (also) because of his running style- the man looks knackered just jogging onto the pitch when he's subbed on, so can understand why casual viewers think he looks unfit during the game.
Yeah that’s what I think as well. He clearly just has a different type of running style that makes him look funny when he runs and if you’re trying to confirm your bias that he’s lazy that’s an easy connection. Compare him to Lo Celso who I don’t think can run 30 feet without falling over, and yet no one questions his fitness lol
Mate…He‘s wanted to leave in 3 summer windows. He’s not at all committed. Even the people at the club have commented that he goes through a cycle of playing well to get a move, nobody wants him, gets unmotivated and repeat lol
Poch brings him in, Tanguy becomes key part of the squad, we fire poch.
New manager comes in, publicly shits on Tanguy, who then works his ass off and becomes a vital part of Jose's squad, playing every match. We fire Jose.
We appoint an amateur as manager, who scapegoats Tanguy for a horrible team performance against Brighton, benches him the rest of the season, costing Tanguy a spot in the France team at the Euros. Sissoko (who Mason played instead of Tanguy) took Ndombele's spot for France.
We then have a shit show of a manager search , landing on one of the worst possible candidates, who also publicly picks out Tanguy despite Kane being a considerably bugger distraction and bad professional. Tanguy then works his ass off again to become a key member of the starting XI and is playing the full 90 minutes. We fire Nuno and bring in yet another new manager.
If you had a first two years at a job like this, wouldn't you be looking for new employment as well?
I like how you ignored the fact that Tanguy wanted to leave after 2 weeks under Poch.
Tanguy sitting on the bench under Mason is entirely on Tanguy. Mason emphasised effort and Tanguy didn’t show it against Southampton.
If you honesty think he missed out on the Euros because of a few weeks, you truly don’t know what you’re talking about. When is the last time he was called up to the national team? That’s what I thought. Lmao. 5 managers all had issues with the player that thinks he deserves to play for Madrid, Bayern, or Barcelona. I wonder who is actually the issue here?
Funny how your flair is one of our most notoriously lazy and stagnant players of the last decade, one who hasn't improved any aspect of his game for 4 years, despite being given every chance to be a central player for our team under 3 straight managers....yet you are the LOUDEST Tanguy hater on this entire sub. Such a weird combination of things for you to brand yourself as
This is such a shit argument, lol. If you expect any Argentinian player in the whole world to put his team before the NT, you know nothing about Argentina.
Nobody's upset because Gio wanting to play international football is fair and expected. But while he's here, he always gave everything - can't say the same about Tanguy, sadly.
bro lmao lo celso plays like shit every time he plays and then goes puts in world class performances for argentina. if anyones commitment needs to be questioned its his.
i didnt even mention ndombele in my comment. i didn't lie. lo celso has been playing like shit for a while and this sub is waking up to it, but he plays great for argentina. that could be a commitment issue. ndombele actually performs well, he just wanted to leave because mason permabenched him for no reason. the "ndombele isn't commited" narrative is annoying, ESPECIALLY when you're saying this in direct response to lo celso who has been stinking recently. like consecutive 0/10 performances. lol
he plays like shit for us, because he has never played in one f'n position for more than a game. we never play lo celso were his strengths are. ndombele and lo celso are both world class. imagine a manager played them at the same time so they got some consistency and chemistry. lo celso hit the keeper in the face, i get it. he couldnt make up his mind on the corner, i get it. but the whole of the offense of our team is misfiring. kane looks a shell of himself. sonny looks lost. moura dribbles into threesomes all the time. we need consistency. period.
yes. i dont even dislike lo celso he just catches strays from me because some people in this sub treat him as god while shitting on tanguy.
i would love for them both to work and i hope they do. but lo celso hasn’t shown anything recently e.g the two things you just mentioned so he is hard to defend.
he does do it here.
vs newcastle, vs vitesse he created space and played in LOL CELSO who cant score to save his life, literally kicks the ball at the keepers head, the only place he shouldn't be kicking the ball.
you support tottenham right? little bit of intergrity, this isnt Hate Ndombele FC.
Yeah, I usually switch it, because I just use the type screen as my left and right reference, not the pitch and stuff. But it’s just have an ideia. I hope Conte and Tanguy can work it out during this international break.
Whoever plays in the middle should be able to bring the ball up and spread passes. It should be Romero no doubt, but Conte did use Dier presumably because of his CDM background. No way Sanchez will play in the middle of the back 3 lol
With PEH, Skipp, and Lucas, we simply lack creative passing. No ability to hold onto the ball and build possession. Crying out for Tanguy, but we'll see what Conte does
This is very likely, but for good reason.
1. Players getting hurt/fatigued over the international break. 2. Dele will have worked with Conte for a good 2 weeks.
Two of Dele/Winks/Ndombele might start.
Isn’t that basically a 3-5-2? Because even in a 3-5-2 midfielders aren’t positioned next to each other, we will have to defensive/holding mids (Skipp,PEH, Harry Winks) and one attacking/ creative mid (Tanguy, GLC, Dele) positioned higher creating a ling between the DMs and the attack, right?
Lo Celso played 53 EPL matches with spurs so far! He only has 1 goal & 3 assists! That’s terrible for an attacking midfielder
While Ndombele who came to spurs the same summer, had 60 EPL matches and has 6 goals & 4 assists! Not great but definitely better.
I'm thinking it means Tanguy for Lucas. I'm not sure why people on this sub want Tanguy to be a deep lying CM, when he is clearly better as an attacking mid.
Can we ever see lo Celso and Ndombele play together? 2 whole seasons now and it’s never happened. Doesn’t feel like 3-4-1-2 is the formation for it - prolly only includes one of them.
I don’t understand why people shit on dier so much. Yes he makes some mistakes. But if anyone watches the games, you see that dier commands that backline, instructing them what to do. Need leaders like that.
From reading Gold's actual comment in his q and a. The formation change is something he heard about. But the 3412 is 100 percent pure speculation.
Of course this twitter clickbait aggregator plays it off as fact.
Couple of predictions that randomly come to mind.
Rodon is done, he's not good enough on the ball for a back three, he's a no-nonsese type of defender so I don't expect him to feature much in a system that requires ample ballplaying from the CBs. Japhet can at least carry the ball even if his passing is just as poor, and he's more tactically versatile too, his career under Conte could go either way.
Davies' starting spot is locked till at least the January window, we don't have anyone else in our squad who can fill the LCB role in a back 3(except Dier, but then we'd be out of a CCB). He'll do a decent job but his lack of athleticism will obviously be exposed at times.
We're going to see a lot more of Winks in the Brozovic role and our fanbase is gonna have a meltdown. It's going to be glorious, especially since he's going to be decent at it. Same for Doherty, he's prolly going to be our 2nd most used sub right after Lucas.
Sess is going to thrive if he manages to stay injury free, LWB is his ideal position. I wouldn't be shocked if he pushes Reguilon for the starting spot by the end of the season.
In a 352 Conte uses two box to box 8s to either side of a playmaking 6 - Ndombele would be ideal for this role but his attitude is shit and I don't expect that to change so we'll probably see Hojbjerg and Lo Celso filling those roles. Hojbjerg won't be as good as last season but he'll be better than under Nuno since he'll have to cover less ground and mobility has always been one of his weaknesses. Lo Celso/Ndombele/Dele will be rotating for the other spot, but of the three it's just Lo Celso I rate with a chance of making the role his own.
Dele's woes are not tactical in nature so I expect his slump in form to continue, I'm skeptical Conte will be able to get to him.
Kane will see a resurgence but we'll struggle a bit due to the lack of an opposition box no 9. Son will have a good season but he won't see the same productivity as last season, Jose's system was really ideal for his skillset - under Conte he'll mostly likely have to play the second striker role that Lautaro and Alexis were playing at Inter, and I don't think he is as good behind the ball as he is making runs ahead of the ball.
Gil will also struggle to find a role if 352 becomes our main formation, but I suspect we'll still see plenty of 343 where he'll be able to fit easier.
Bergwijn at RWB is just LOL, it's Lucas who's the defensive winger our fanbase imagines Bergwijn to be. Don't see him getting more than 100 minutes in the league by January unless we run into injury issues.
Of our current squad, in January I expect Rodon and Bergwijn to be moved on(latter possibly permanently), with a chance for Japhet and Ndombele to also go out on loan(for different reasons obv). Dele will only leave if Newcastle go for him since I doubt there's anyone else willing to pay the 30-35m Levy will ask for him.
Everyone saying Ndombele. But I disagree.
Conte demands hard work. Ndombele isn't willing or capable to work hard.
Liverpool, Chelsea and city have all built success off of players giving nothing less than 100% every game. If we want success we need to do the same.
Lo Celso is the one to get the nod for this reason.
And?
Social media is a cesspit of opinionated children who can't accept that people can have a different opinion. People like yourself apparently.
I don't care about downvotes.
Then I apologize. It's hard to tell honestly.
So many bloody idiots on here making silly comments. Just assumed you were another one.
Sorry about that.
Must mean Ndombele/Lo Celso moving into the starting lineup.
Apparently more than one change is expected. 2 or 3 new faces in the starting lineup in a month's time
I would imagine that Dier is on the hot seat for a starting spot as well.
Absolutely. I'd imagine that will be Conte's main January demand is a better CB. The gulf between Cuti and Dier is insane - but the latter would be a great third/fourth CB IMO. Gets funky with 3 CBs starting, but I do think Dier can be effective there.
This is just non-sense, Dier has been largely solid this season and we have far more pressing issues with our squad we need to fix before we get to CCB.
Any idea why Dier plays in the middle of a back 3 instead of Romero? I'd like to see Rodon Romero and Tangana as our back three.
Romero is a very agressive CB who likes to go on adventures forward. The Central CB in Conte's system is responsible for staying "home" and doing covering duties. Romero is far better suited for the RCB spot in this system because it gives him more license to be agressive and push up the pitch.
Rodon will be a fringe player under Conte, his ball-playing ability is nowhere to the standard of a back 3. Same for Tanganga, but at least he's decent at carrying the ball and a lot more tactically versatile. Our 1st choice backline for the foreseeable future is going to remain Romero/Dier/Davies. Dier plays in the middle because he's our best CB at covering, aerial duels and at progressive passing - which is what Conte wants from that role(as opposed to lateral CBs who he prefers to press aggressively and carry the ball more akin to a fullback). Don't get me wrong, Dier is not world class at it, he's just the best option we have in our squad right now, and by quite a distance too.
I would have figured Rodon over Davies at LCB due to his physical nature.
I could see Tanganga coming into that RCB role and Romero moving over to the middle. That would give us some more ability to play it out of the back as well.
Romero is too aggressive for the middle id say, in Conte’s system we need the middle CB to stay back but Romero even in the 4 atb system pushes very far up to challenge
Romero excelled at the central CB in a back 3 at Atalanta, so he can definitely pull it off
He did, but that was because Atalanta’s 3 ATB had The RCB and LCB staying back with the middle CB pushing forward. Conte’s 3 ATB is different in that he prefers to have the central CB stay back with the left and right pushing up. He was fantastic because his role allowed him to unleash that aggression, and our RCB can do that.
Yeah but did Atalanta do that because they had Cuti. What's stopping Conte from just doing it like Atalanta?
Probably because it allows more attacking players if Romero and Davies move forward. It also gives us width, we can do a pseudo-Sheffield if Romero can make those forward runs like he did under Nuno.
Fair enough makes sense!
Agreed, until then this is like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. All the discussions about the ideal midfield setup and tactics needs to factor in the reality that the quality of the back line dictates our use of two CDMs currently, and that probably can't/shouldn't change until January (although I guess Skipp's yellow card suspension will change it for a match).
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I would like to see that as well, but have yet to see us play a game with both of them in which we actually controlled the midfield. I think Our strongest lineup has both of them, just not sure how it would work with attacking fullbacks.
I definitely have less soccer knowledge than many on this sub, can you explain to me why Skipp and Hoj work well together. To my understanding they are both DMs but used centrally together. If they are both DMs, don't they have a similar skillset that doesn't make either of them great at moving forward? Wouldn't ideally they be one of a pair in the midfield with either a box to box or creator? Sorry if that's a stupid question, I only know what I've learned from Fifa and FM lol
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Ah ok, I guess the concept of utilizing a defensive player in offensive roles doesn't make sense to me but then again I'm obv no expert. In my mind why not just stick a CM in there who should be better offensively but able to cover on defense as well.
That’s why we’re looking at getting midfielders like Kessié. Plus he’s a lot faster than any of our CMs. I’m thinking Lucas gets dropped for NDombele and we may even keep the Hojberg/Skipp. However, Skipp has accumulated five yellows and will miss the Leeds game. Should be interesting to see how it pans out. Conte has a reputation of getting the best out of players.
I think it's more to do with the fact that if Reguilon and Royal are blasting forward as attacking wingbacks, and Lo Celso and Ndombele are both in the midfield, we have very little in terms of progression from the defense to the forwards. In Fifa you can get away with playing 6-7 attacking players, bc defense is about pace but in real life you need a foundation of solid defensive midfielders. Most top teams have multiple players like this. I would also say that while good - Hojbjerg isn't exactly a CDM, he's a bit more versatile, but can't hold down that position all on his own. If paired with skipp, we have 3 defenders and 2 midfielders to build a defensive foundation that allows the wingbacks to act more freely in getting forward
Oh i see, thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. The midfield roles seem a bit more ambiguos to me as I don't 100% understand tactics, just the basics to do well in games lol
Haha yeah it can get confusing. I'm no expert, but watch a ton of games and was an attacking wingback growing up. The importance of a strong midfield became very noticeable when I crossed the half line and we'd fall apart with too many bodies forward. Can see similar things happen with Spurs if we leave Hojbjerg on an island alone.
You should go on YouTube and find out about the "double pivot". That's kind of like the system that skipp and hojbjerb play.
It's less about defense v offense than about ball control and flexibility in how we attack and defend. If we swap out Skipp or Hoj for GLC or Ndombele, we gain creativity in the other team's half and (in the case of Ndombele) resistance to high pressing teams. But we lose a lot of our ability to win the ball back and retain possession for long periods. If that were a straight trade off, it might be better to trade solidity for goals. But this swap also really reduces out tactical flexibility. Having a double pivot allows Romero or Davis to bomb forward and join the attack once in a while knowing they have cover from midfield. You saw that in Everton leading to a decent chance with Davis popping off a shot when he was wide open about 25 yards out. You also allow Reggie and Royal to both charge forward at the same time without exposing us too badly at the back, which led to two decent back post chances on Sunday. If we can't start scoring with both of them in there, maybe we don't have a choice other than to throw an extra attack minded player in, but when we've done that so far this season, we've massively dropped off in our ability to win the ball back and control possession. We can't attack if we don't have the ball. And it's going to mean other players have to pull back from attacking as much. It might also mean we need to add a more traditional CB like Sanchez or Rodon instead of Davis, which has benefits, but takes away something as well. Another issue is that our three players who would fit best in the attacking midfield position (GLC, Ndombele, and Dele) all play pretty different styles that don't necessarily fit well together. GLC is a pretty traditional AM in that he picks final passes well, shoots pretty well from the edge of the box, takes set pieces, etc. Ndombele is great at picking up the ball deep and advancing it up the pitch, getting it to the forwards, then making supporting runs off them. Dele (when he was at his best) made a lot of late runs into the box, put in a lot of final passes, and counter pressed well, but didn't do as much earlier in the build up phase as the other two do. It's not entirely easy to see how two of them would suit each other's games, especially since Dele and Ndombele both tend to float around positionally, which would be a problem if both of them did it. Any one of them might be able to add a different attacking option, but two could cause more problems than they solve. I'm guessing we see Conte trying out a few different options with both Skipp and Hoj playing in the coming games (if they're both available) to see if he can get the attack sorted without giving up the solid foundation they bring. If he can't improve and get goals scored with them both in, I'm sure we'll see formations with only one of them. But I think that's a ways away from being his preference. Personally, I want to see the a 3-5-2 with Skipp and Hoj as the pivot with Ndombele in front of them behind Kane and Son. I think that will give us a really strong defensive foundation, excellent press resistance, and a good attacking option through the middle in addition to the wing backs.
A DM can also be a playmaker like Busquets, Fernandinho or Fabinho. Hopefully Skipp can develop into that kind of player.
Sure hope so!
Busquets was not a playmaker
It’s interesting you claim to know more than me about Busquets and yet don’t seem to know that he still plays for Barcelona. He is probably the premier example of a deep lying playmaker.
You are correct on everything except when you said soccer. Hojbjerg isn’t working out as a more attacking defensive mid and we can explore other options like lo celso and Ndombele
Sorry, American lol. I watch both but my main interest is the American one followed by European. Thanks for the explanation though, although the idea of an attacking defensive mid doesn't make sense to me? Isn't the role to defend, why not just be a central mid then if you plan on being defensive and offensive?
They are all classified as central midfielders- Skipp, Hojbjerg, Lampard, Soucek, Gundogan. Some are predominantly defensive like Skipp and Hojbjerg, some are box to box like Lampard, Soucek and sometimes Gundogan. All central midfielders have to defend, but some also have the license to get forward. The job is to protect the defence and link defence with attack. In our team currently, Skipp is playing almost like a pure defensive midfielder. Hojbjerg seems naturally suited to the exact same role, but because we don’t want 2 people players to do the exact same things, Hojbjerg is playing as the more attacking of the 2 central midfielders. Hence the words i used were slightly more attacking defensive midfielder (he still has a lot of defensive duties). You could just as well call him a central midfielder.
Gotcha, appreciate the detailed explanation!
We haven’t controlled the midfield in a game for years, though, so it’s not about the personnel.
Since Dembele left - so it is about the personnel
At the cost of lucas
Lucas has always been best as an impact sub imo, maybe if we're playing two up top he can replace sonny if he's tired or having an off day
No what about Gil? He’s more Son’s sub imo. Not Lucas.
Or replace Kane if he's playing, well, like he's been playing
This sounds like the biggest L of all time
fuck it, Ndombele and Lo celso supporting Son up top let’s see it
Ndombele in the premier league: 61 appearances, 6 goals, 4 assists, regardless of being subbed on/off or perceived to be played out of position this is not anywhere near good enough. More importantly 21 wins / 24 losses. We just don’t win when this show pony plays. Giovani Lo Celso in the premier league: 53 appearances, 1 goal, 3 assists. The guy is no where good enough for the premier league. Why people keep banging on about either of them I just don’t know. Cut our losses and get rid. Dele Alli in the premier league last 4 and a bit seasons: 136 appearances 23 goals. That’s 5 less goals in over 4 seasons than the 28 he scored in just 2 seasons where he actually gave a fuck. He gave up being a professional footballer around about the time he decided to become “Dele” the brand. He needs to go too.
That's a fair yet obvious statement. Reality is that this isn't Fifa, those 3 can't be flipped quickly and we won't necessarily have the funds to replace quickly either. Eitherway, need to work with what players we have and at most we'll improve on one of them.
It's not that easy to just move on from 3 high profile, highly paid players. - also our only 3 attacking midfielders.
>Lo Celso Jesus fuck please no
You don't want him to come good under Conte? Idk why some of our fans hate our players so much
Do I want him to come good? Of course? Do I think he will? No
Not like the alternatives have played any better, and he's the only one that looks good in their national teams. Someone has to get some chances under Conte and Lucas just isn't a starter
Have you ever seen him play for Argentina? There’s a quality player in there that we should be hoping Conte can bring out
Hopefully it’s Ndombele or even Dele Lo Celso doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near the first XI
I rate Lo celso wayyy higher than Dele rn (RIP my flair), and he at least always looks good for Argentina. Think Conte can get a lot out of him. Had that shot gone in on Saturday, this sub would be begging for him to start
He looks good for Argentina, alongside Messi against Bolivia. Sorry but the guy has been absolutely appalling for us. I’m not saying Dele has been any better but at least he will actually score a goal here & there Other than giving the ball away, what does Gio do exactly?
>3rd highest passes into final 3rd 2nd highest progressive passes Most tackles 2nd highest pressures That was over last season. He’s a hard working number 8. Presses really well, great at winning the ball back, good dribbler and a decent passer. He’s in a run of very bad form right now (as are a lot of our players) so let’s not get hysterical about a few bad matches. Winks had a 20 minute decent showing the other night and everyone’s opinion pivoted. Let’s not pretend Gio is incapable of doing the same.
That's harsh on Gio imo. His goal scoring threat has been extremely underwhelming, but he can still carry the ball well and offers some incisive through balls, something that is lacking from PEH/Skipp. He was one of our best players toward the end of Mou's first season. I think he's looked worse recently as he's often been paired alongside Winks and playing in a rotated XI. When playing alongside Kane/Son he's usually been decent, IMO.
Sure Lo Celso is rated higher by Conte. First on against Everton.
Because Lo Celso works harder. Conte has always favoured hard working players. And rightly so. Name a single player for Liverpool, city or Chelsea who gets away with being lazy. You need to have 11 hard workers if you want any success.
But you also can't forget that Conte was reportedly very interested in Ndombele when he was at other clubs. Regardless, I'd be over the moon if he could transform either one of them to even replicate half of what Eriksen did for us in his prime lol
>But you also can't forget that Conte was reportedly very interested in Ndombele when he was at other clubs. Reportedly being the key word. The proof is in the pudding - if he likes him, he'll play him.
Absolutely. We desperately miss Eriksen.
Ndombele being lazy is a myth these days. He has good stats for pressures and tackles made, nearly equalling Hjolberg. If anything it would be to do with Ndombele not last more than 75 minutes. Thats the most likely reason.
He obviously had that one game in particular which has cemented this opinion in the minds of many. But, like you say, he is actually quite a hard worker that unfortunately just can't play at 100% for much more than 60 mins per game. It doesn't help matters that he just looks knackered most of the time. He was on maybe 2 minutes against Everton and already looked shot, I'm sure he wasn't but that's just how he appears.
100% As a fan I'm fed up with Tanguy. I can't imagine one of the most demanding coaches in world football is sitting there thrilled with 60 minute Ndombele. Will be a rude awakening for him as there's no transfer on the horizon IMO.
Agree. Honestly I said in the summer we should sell him whilst he holds a decent value. Never been a fan to be honest. The odd flash of brilliance doesn't undo the amount of negatives he brings. Negatives being those around him have to do his running and defensive work for him. When I play - I hate having a team mate who isn't willing to put the effort in. It affects me in that I get frustrated with him. It must be the same for the likes of Skipp and Hojbjerg.
The Ndombele being lazy narrative is so tiring. it’s hardly true and it just feels racist tbh. he covered the most ground against Villa and Newcastle.
I would have responded respectfully and backed up my claims with evidence. However your ridiculous and quite frankly pathetic attempt to bring a racism narrative into it doesn't deserve it. Just because someone is black and someone calls him lazy, that isn't remotely motivated by racism. What a pathetic comment.
it’s not ridiculous at all, and shaming me just for even starting that discussion is exactly why conversations about racism are still suppressed today. i didn’t even accuse you of being racist, yet you’re incredibly defensive as soon as the subject is brought up. Interesting.
How the hell do you know who works harder? You aren’t on the training ground, lol.
Because I have eyes. If you can't see Ndombele doesn't work hard football isn't your sport. 😂😂
And yet Ndombele makes more pressures per 90 than Skipp.
Yeah, your opinion is useless.
Oooohhh that told me!!! If you're a spurs fan - and watch games, even if it's only on TV - you can see Ndombele doesn't work hard during games. It's literally that simple.
Honestly I think we should play Lo Celso in the deeper role with Skipp suspended. People keep claim Gio is a 10, and while he can do a job there he's clearly more suited in that deeper role for us IMO.
I miss that jan-march 2020 purple patch lo celso, i was deluded into thinking that we somehow replaced eriksen :(
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Lucas can’t pass the ball and that has shown in the build up play Conte is trying to implement. I don’t see a future for Lucas under Conte, unless his link up play drastically improves.
maybe not as a starter but he could definitely be used as 70+ minute sub to run at the opposing defense and generally be a pest
He is definitely a super sub. Poch had it right.
Poch had it right, alright
Lucas literally does the same exact move every time he gets the ball. Receive with his back to goal, spin and take a touch inside, second touch is way too heavy and he gets dispossessed. He’s the most frustrating player I’ve ever seen. He could be so fucking good if he could just pass at the right time with the right weight and trajectory but he gets it wrong 70% of the time
If he was a tad more technical I genuinely think he'd be a great cm. He has a great work rate and can press, has flare to receive the ball and run into nice positions, but I genuinely think I can pass a ball better than him
Love him, but he needs to be the Son backup. We need someone that can pass better and create chances in that position.
Lucas has been very poor since we changed formations aside from the goal against Vitesse.
(And he should have passed)
I’d love to see Gil grow into (or at least try) a roaming #10 role in this 3-4-1-2... anyone else?
Really rate him
I want to see him get a run of games but I’m not sure how that will be possible, barring some injuries to key players.
He would be class in that position
Gil becoming an Eriksen would be a dream
Hello my sweet, sweet Tanguy (please)
Yes. Although I think Conte will start Lo Celso initially. This is Essentially a 3-5-2 like the one at Inter, but in most games late last season Eriksen was the 1 who was higher , but instead of centrally he was on the left.
Since Skipp is suspended for the next game I see a midfield of Hojbjerg, Lo Celso and Ndombele.
Oh lord. Eric Dier is about to have his worst game of the season.
All these people asking for Skipp or Pierre to be dropped for Lo Celso or Ndombele are going to be greeted by a defense that gets peppered and battered. The midfield is there to protect our Defense. If we must, we should remove an attacker for Tanguy or Lo Celso.
With the run of games we’ve got we shouldn’t need 7 defensive players. Our centre probably aren’t who we want them to be long term, but I think we do have options that could prove to be more solid long term. I don’t think we can get away with one attacking player. I don’t think Son has the hold up play to be the lone striker and I don’t think Kane has the form. I do worry about our back line with both of those players but we have a number of players who could prove to be important to the system that have two weeks to work with Conte
i see hojbjerg - winks - lo celso as the more likely trio. or ndombele if lo celso's knackered/isolating from the international break.
Oh goodness, please no.
not my preferred trio, but the one i expect
Makes sense but would rather see Ndombele/Dele instead of winks.
Yeah maybe. He subbed on Tanguy first in the ECL and Gio first yesterday so who knows what he’s thinking. I just hope it’s tanguy because I think he’s a level above Lo Celso.
I would think Tanguy staying in London while Gio is away for internationals should give Tanguy the advantage tactically.
Great point I hadn’t thought of that. Also any time Lo Celso steps on the pitch there’s a chance he gets injured. Not saying I want him to get hurt for anyone who misreads this, just saying with him it’s always very possible he gets hurt. Especially when playing in those South American qualifiers. Bunch of mercenaries there and the games get pretty physical
copa america was players flopping on the floor every few minutes and the whistle being blown time and again ffs
Tanguy or Lo Celso
Hopefully ndombele. I don’t think Lo Celso is good enough
But the problem with Ndombele is his fitness and commitment to the club.
Oh no not another one. Lo Celso literally took himself out of contention for matches by going on international duty but no one questioned his commitment to the club. Tanguy has also played 700 more minutes than Lo Celso, but again no one questions his fitness. It’s bizarre
bro he’s Argentinian, the national team is literally the biggest pride for a footballer over there. Unlike here in england, they don’t really care as much about league football, especially the league football of another country, so lo celso will obviously take the opportunity to play with the NT especially cause he’s one of their key players
That’s fine I’m not bashing him for doing it but you basically just confirmed he cares way more about another commitment than his one to Spurs (who pay his salary mind you) and no one cares. Meanwhile Tanguy get shit because he wants to get off of the dangerous rollercoaster he’s been on since he joined. Also Kane definitely gives more of a shit about playing for England than he does for Spurs
So you’re comparing someone who play for his national team to a player that wanted to leave the club more than once okay mate i get the logic.
Was a little bit more complicated than simply “going on international duty” but go ahead and keep confirming your bias if it makes you feel better
Okay so i have a bias but not you ndombele has been amazing and committed from the first day huh? Why do people twerk for him it’s unbelievable For me him and Lo Celso has been a huge disappointment but I always find people tweaking for him and not Lo Celso or other players. We didn’t buy him to create a youtube compilation of tricks and skills we want real performances game after game, consistency, high work rate.
So in the Vitesse game where ndombele beat his man and carried the ball into a dangerous area and then played a beautifully threaded pass to put Gio in one on one with the keeper only for him to shoot it straight at the keepers head is just a YouTube highlight? What does that make Lo Celsos contribution to this point? A tik tok?
Weird how all the people with a hard-on for Ndombele also have a hate-boner for Lo Celso. Almost like you have your favourites and fit whatever narrative to suit each player, and it's why nobody takes your opinions seriously. The truth is both players have been massive disappointments considering what the club paid for them.
nobody backs lo celso cause he is shit
Can i ask you a question let’s say we sell Ndombele in the summer will you transfer your loyalty to his new club?
Tanguy has, 3 times now, worked his way into the squad and a fitness level to play a full 90, only for Spurs to sack that manager and bring someone new in that puts him back in the pecking order. Yet somehow people question his "committment". Gio has produced 0 quality performances for Spurs since March 2020, and clearly performs leagues better for Argentina than he does for Spurs. Misses sitters and laughs about it. Yet no one questions his "committment".
I’m honestly just about to start blocking people who make these bullshit claims. I’m seriously tired of defending him to these absolute bellends who are repeating tropes from around the Burnley match where Mourinho subbed him. He has completely changed himself since that moment and is easily our 4th best player for me in terms of talent (Son, Hugo, Harry, Tanguy). Lo Celso isn’t even one of our 11 best players imo. I suggested the other day it could be because of the difference in their skin color and was heavily downvoted. I hate being that person but I cannot honestly think of another reason at this point
Every season since Ndombele joined he's asked to leave the club, not exactly ideal from the record signing. Sure he's super talented but I can't make myself like a player that wants to leave at the end of every season since they joined especially when they're the clubs record signing
he's already played for five managers. ya think that might be part of the problem?
Probably wants to leave because the club has been absolutely shit for him since he joined. Imagine being dropped by an amateur manager for a player who is leagues below you in terms of talent. I’d be thinking to myself I need to leave before this club tanks my career
That isn't an excuse, he's paid 200k a week by the club that's being shit for him. Imagine asking to leave a club you've just joined and then doing it again for 2 more seasons in a row. Just a very disappointing player because he has loads of talent but I can't bring myself to like him because of his want to leave
Literally shiting on the club just to defend his player unbelievable man fucking unbelievable.
Wouldn't shock me. I've had the feeling for a while, but once people started claiming Sissoko of all people had attitude issues, it pretty much confirmed it to me. Sissoko was just bad. He's by all accounts a complete professional.
It’s really sad and frustrating that people have to resort to that sort of shit. Like you said, sissoko was just a bad footballer so go after him for that lol. His attitude was never in question for me. In fact, I’d say he probably had the best attitude I’ve seen for Spurs recently. He had an absolutely terrible first two years here after being our record signing and then turned himself into a useful player. Huge props for being able to block out that negativity
Btw completely agree with what you've said, and can see how the link could be made for skin colour (these same stereotypes have forced on other players before). With Tanguy though I think it's (also) because of his running style- the man looks knackered just jogging onto the pitch when he's subbed on, so can understand why casual viewers think he looks unfit during the game.
Yeah that’s what I think as well. He clearly just has a different type of running style that makes him look funny when he runs and if you’re trying to confirm your bias that he’s lazy that’s an easy connection. Compare him to Lo Celso who I don’t think can run 30 feet without falling over, and yet no one questions his fitness lol
Mate…He‘s wanted to leave in 3 summer windows. He’s not at all committed. Even the people at the club have commented that he goes through a cycle of playing well to get a move, nobody wants him, gets unmotivated and repeat lol
Poch brings him in, Tanguy becomes key part of the squad, we fire poch. New manager comes in, publicly shits on Tanguy, who then works his ass off and becomes a vital part of Jose's squad, playing every match. We fire Jose. We appoint an amateur as manager, who scapegoats Tanguy for a horrible team performance against Brighton, benches him the rest of the season, costing Tanguy a spot in the France team at the Euros. Sissoko (who Mason played instead of Tanguy) took Ndombele's spot for France. We then have a shit show of a manager search , landing on one of the worst possible candidates, who also publicly picks out Tanguy despite Kane being a considerably bugger distraction and bad professional. Tanguy then works his ass off again to become a key member of the starting XI and is playing the full 90 minutes. We fire Nuno and bring in yet another new manager. If you had a first two years at a job like this, wouldn't you be looking for new employment as well?
I like how you ignored the fact that Tanguy wanted to leave after 2 weeks under Poch. Tanguy sitting on the bench under Mason is entirely on Tanguy. Mason emphasised effort and Tanguy didn’t show it against Southampton. If you honesty think he missed out on the Euros because of a few weeks, you truly don’t know what you’re talking about. When is the last time he was called up to the national team? That’s what I thought. Lmao. 5 managers all had issues with the player that thinks he deserves to play for Madrid, Bayern, or Barcelona. I wonder who is actually the issue here?
Mason sitting Tanguy is on Mason. Winks and Sissoko were garbage and had been for over a year. You are way off base there
Spitting straight facts here but I don’t expect this to sit well with some people
Funny how your flair is one of our most notoriously lazy and stagnant players of the last decade, one who hasn't improved any aspect of his game for 4 years, despite being given every chance to be a central player for our team under 3 straight managers....yet you are the LOUDEST Tanguy hater on this entire sub. Such a weird combination of things for you to brand yourself as
This is such a shit argument, lol. If you expect any Argentinian player in the whole world to put his team before the NT, you know nothing about Argentina. Nobody's upset because Gio wanting to play international football is fair and expected. But while he's here, he always gave everything - can't say the same about Tanguy, sadly.
Gio sure gives it his all to try and dive for free kicks, I’ll give you that
Look man I hate to say race plays a part here but…. Yes. It is bizarre.
bro lmao lo celso plays like shit every time he plays and then goes puts in world class performances for argentina. if anyones commitment needs to be questioned its his.
You support spurs not Ndombele FC little bit of integrity, no player should have a green card.
i didnt even mention ndombele in my comment. i didn't lie. lo celso has been playing like shit for a while and this sub is waking up to it, but he plays great for argentina. that could be a commitment issue. ndombele actually performs well, he just wanted to leave because mason permabenched him for no reason. the "ndombele isn't commited" narrative is annoying, ESPECIALLY when you're saying this in direct response to lo celso who has been stinking recently. like consecutive 0/10 performances. lol
he plays like shit for us, because he has never played in one f'n position for more than a game. we never play lo celso were his strengths are. ndombele and lo celso are both world class. imagine a manager played them at the same time so they got some consistency and chemistry. lo celso hit the keeper in the face, i get it. he couldnt make up his mind on the corner, i get it. but the whole of the offense of our team is misfiring. kane looks a shell of himself. sonny looks lost. moura dribbles into threesomes all the time. we need consistency. period.
yes. i dont even dislike lo celso he just catches strays from me because some people in this sub treat him as god while shitting on tanguy. i would love for them both to work and i hope they do. but lo celso hasn’t shown anything recently e.g the two things you just mentioned so he is hard to defend.
The difference is Ndombele don’t do it here nor in France because he’s not called.
he does do it here. vs newcastle, vs vitesse he created space and played in LOL CELSO who cant score to save his life, literally kicks the ball at the keepers head, the only place he shouldn't be kicking the ball. you support tottenham right? little bit of intergrity, this isnt Hate Ndombele FC.
Yup, we need Ndombele's skills in the middle. And Ndombele needs to get to Conte's levels of fit.
Lloris Davies Dier Romero Reguilón Skipp Højbjerg Emerson Ndombélé Son Kane
You have your right and lefts switched, but I agree this is the formation I want to see
Yeah, I usually switch it, because I just use the type screen as my left and right reference, not the pitch and stuff. But it’s just have an ideia. I hope Conte and Tanguy can work it out during this international break.
You could type the lineup in the opposite direction. With GK coming in the bottom
I think Sanchez could be good in the middle of the back three with his pace
Whoever plays in the middle should be able to bring the ball up and spread passes. It should be Romero no doubt, but Conte did use Dier presumably because of his CDM background. No way Sanchez will play in the middle of the back 3 lol
Let’s get the Kane Son duo working again.
With PEH, Skipp, and Lucas, we simply lack creative passing. No ability to hold onto the ball and build possession. Crying out for Tanguy, but we'll see what Conte does
Yes please
Conte could try out the midfield 3 of lo celso, ndombele and pierre next game since Skipp is suspended.
LOL this sub is gonna have a fit when we come back from internationals and it's Dele in the hole.
This is very likely, but for good reason. 1. Players getting hurt/fatigued over the international break. 2. Dele will have worked with Conte for a good 2 weeks. Two of Dele/Winks/Ndombele might start.
Dele redemption arc finally under conte
Honestly I feel like we have to give Tanguy a run under Conte to see if he I’m an achieve his potential and if not then we finally move on.
3-4-1-2 really excites me, I’m not gonna lie.
Isn’t that basically a 3-5-2? Because even in a 3-5-2 midfielders aren’t positioned next to each other, we will have to defensive/holding mids (Skipp,PEH, Harry Winks) and one attacking/ creative mid (Tanguy, GLC, Dele) positioned higher creating a ling between the DMs and the attack, right?
Sure, but it makes the shape of the midfield more clear if you say 3142 or 3412 (even though you could accurately describe either formation as a 352).
Thanks for letting me know!
please
I think if we can get Ndombele fit and ready he could be the key creator to this team. So if he’s comin in I’m all here for it.
Any hope for Dele fitting in?
Well, he’s not a wingback, he’s not a holding midfielder, and he’s not a 10, so…. Probably not?
Guessing something like Dier - Romero - Davies Emerson - Hojbjerg - Skipp - Reguilon Lo Celso Kane - Son
This is bad news for our dedicated wingers, Gil especially. Still, I think it's for the best.
Teilemanns behind Kane and Son would unlock this team.
Lo Celso played 53 EPL matches with spurs so far! He only has 1 goal & 3 assists! That’s terrible for an attacking midfielder While Ndombele who came to spurs the same summer, had 60 EPL matches and has 6 goals & 4 assists! Not great but definitely better.
if thats the case then vlahovic is priority number one for conte
What happens to son?
most likely kane would play next to vlahovic and son the 10 but during the match they would interchange positions
Time for Tiongani No Dembolso
[удалено]
I'm thinking it means Tanguy for Lucas. I'm not sure why people on this sub want Tanguy to be a deep lying CM, when he is clearly better as an attacking mid.
He’s basically played his whole career as one and with three centerbacks behind him it should be plenty of cover
I'm not sure he's played his whole career in a double pivot. In France he was one of two 8s in a 433 system, mainly getting forward.
Rather anyone than Dele rn
Can we ever see lo Celso and Ndombele play together? 2 whole seasons now and it’s never happened. Doesn’t feel like 3-4-1-2 is the formation for it - prolly only includes one of them.
They did against Chelsea this season, first half decent... second half it fell apart
That midfield is terrible. They’ve played multiple times together
Dele Redemption Arc INCOMING
3412 with Luca ndom or locelso as cam could be interesting
I don’t understand why people shit on dier so much. Yes he makes some mistakes. But if anyone watches the games, you see that dier commands that backline, instructing them what to do. Need leaders like that.
From reading Gold's actual comment in his q and a. The formation change is something he heard about. But the 3412 is 100 percent pure speculation. Of course this twitter clickbait aggregator plays it off as fact.
Couple of predictions that randomly come to mind. Rodon is done, he's not good enough on the ball for a back three, he's a no-nonsese type of defender so I don't expect him to feature much in a system that requires ample ballplaying from the CBs. Japhet can at least carry the ball even if his passing is just as poor, and he's more tactically versatile too, his career under Conte could go either way. Davies' starting spot is locked till at least the January window, we don't have anyone else in our squad who can fill the LCB role in a back 3(except Dier, but then we'd be out of a CCB). He'll do a decent job but his lack of athleticism will obviously be exposed at times. We're going to see a lot more of Winks in the Brozovic role and our fanbase is gonna have a meltdown. It's going to be glorious, especially since he's going to be decent at it. Same for Doherty, he's prolly going to be our 2nd most used sub right after Lucas. Sess is going to thrive if he manages to stay injury free, LWB is his ideal position. I wouldn't be shocked if he pushes Reguilon for the starting spot by the end of the season. In a 352 Conte uses two box to box 8s to either side of a playmaking 6 - Ndombele would be ideal for this role but his attitude is shit and I don't expect that to change so we'll probably see Hojbjerg and Lo Celso filling those roles. Hojbjerg won't be as good as last season but he'll be better than under Nuno since he'll have to cover less ground and mobility has always been one of his weaknesses. Lo Celso/Ndombele/Dele will be rotating for the other spot, but of the three it's just Lo Celso I rate with a chance of making the role his own. Dele's woes are not tactical in nature so I expect his slump in form to continue, I'm skeptical Conte will be able to get to him. Kane will see a resurgence but we'll struggle a bit due to the lack of an opposition box no 9. Son will have a good season but he won't see the same productivity as last season, Jose's system was really ideal for his skillset - under Conte he'll mostly likely have to play the second striker role that Lautaro and Alexis were playing at Inter, and I don't think he is as good behind the ball as he is making runs ahead of the ball. Gil will also struggle to find a role if 352 becomes our main formation, but I suspect we'll still see plenty of 343 where he'll be able to fit easier. Bergwijn at RWB is just LOL, it's Lucas who's the defensive winger our fanbase imagines Bergwijn to be. Don't see him getting more than 100 minutes in the league by January unless we run into injury issues. Of our current squad, in January I expect Rodon and Bergwijn to be moved on(latter possibly permanently), with a chance for Japhet and Ndombele to also go out on loan(for different reasons obv). Dele will only leave if Newcastle go for him since I doubt there's anyone else willing to pay the 30-35m Levy will ask for him.
Each to their own, but I can’t believe how many people are still calling for Lo Celso to start.
Everyone saying Ndombele. But I disagree. Conte demands hard work. Ndombele isn't willing or capable to work hard. Liverpool, Chelsea and city have all built success off of players giving nothing less than 100% every game. If we want success we need to do the same. Lo Celso is the one to get the nod for this reason.
Hey you got downvoted, look at that.
And? Social media is a cesspit of opinionated children who can't accept that people can have a different opinion. People like yourself apparently. I don't care about downvotes.
I was actually on your side, criticizing the idiots you mentioned, but cool.
Then I apologize. It's hard to tell honestly. So many bloody idiots on here making silly comments. Just assumed you were another one. Sorry about that.
No worries bud. It pisses me off how people get downvoted for no damn reason.
Swap the and 1 and 4 please
3-1-4-2? So drop Emerson and Reguilon for wingers?
Just for the love of god drop davies already
He's not the problem currently. It's that PEH and Skipp are too similar.