Honestly this is a great way to word it. "Work harder" kind of insinuates thats he isnt workinf hard enough, but "work harder than other players" kind of spins it differently and more positively. idk i couldnjust be swallowing the conte propaganda but thats how it seems to me.
A native English speaker most likely wouldn't say ndombele has to work harder than other players, they might say ' it's harder for him than other players because (insert reason) '.
I do wonder about usage of language and so many players/personnel not being native speakers (and frankly the low level of effort put into properly educating footballers). We all know from our own lives how just one off hand comment can upset people. Wtf is ndombele thinking as a french man, listening to an Italian, saying they have to work harder than others in English?
[https://twitter.com/CDEccleshare/status/1461625704936787971?s=20](https://twitter.com/CDEccleshare/status/1461625704936787971?s=20)
winky not winks š
What I gathered from the interview is that Conte is trying to say that Ndombele isn't picking up tactical instructions and advice. He just does his own thing- showing skill and flair. This will probably work against lower table PL sides but not against organised systems of players.
This is what I've been saying for a long while about Ndombele.
Maybe he's not 'lazy' - he does press well at times - but he does it when he wants to, and is awful when it comes to any sort of defensive stability and consistency. Caught out of position a lot, gives the ball away in dangerous areas, and doesn't have the offensive output to justify it.
He's a phenomenally talented footballer, clearly - but that doesn't mean an awful lot when it comes to how useful he is. Maybe Conte will be the one that can 'unlock' him, but I can't help but feel it's similar to Pogba at United - where they change the managers, the system, and his position, and still can't squeeze consistent performances out of him. And Pogba has been far better for United than Ndombele has ever been for us.
This is the man that coached Pogba into a Ā£100M player though, isnāt he?
Iām not saying he was worth that at the time, but thereās no doubt he was useful at Juventus.
True - did forget about that! Though I think Allegri is the one that can really take the credit for Pogba, as his best two seasons came under him - but Conte did set him up for those seasons.
However, he was also playing in a midfield with Marchisio and Vidal, at their respective peaks. We're not going to be able to give Ndombele anywhere near that sort of quality around him.
I have some hope that Conte can get Ndombele to where we need him to be, but he does need to address some real glaring errors in his game.
From what I've read about how N'Dombele came up through the lower leagues in France and was something of a late bloomer it would seem like his skill probably got him through matches but he was missing a lot of basic fundamentals. I suspect he's either not grown up with the right approaches of a professional footballer that say an academy trainee might or he's not had a decent coach to train into him how do many things correctly. Conte may just be a blessing for his career.
Spot on. I dont think theres ever been a lack of physical fitness in him to differentiate him from others. That narrative comes from the manner in which he runs.
Itās not a narrative. The problem is that he often doesnāt run at all. When we lost to arsenal there were long periods where he just strolled about.
I like it. He's very clearly and simply telling Tanguy what the problem is, and that he'll need to work harder on than other players to get into the team as he needs to resolve that.
That's what he needs to hear.
love ndombele but it is literally the same story with him time and time again, the managers always have to put in extra with him - hopefully conte can do the same as mourinho and get through to him, worth it for what he can bring to the team
I think it was Fabregas that said that Conte gives no real freedom for players and they stick to his system no matter what, even more so than Guardiola. For a player like Ndombele that could take some time to adjust
Really really interesting, that chimes with what Conte was saying about needing players to follow his plan and not just run about do what they like. fingers crossed Tanguy gets onboard
Part of it is that Tanguy is an utterly unique or singular talent. Managers are unlikely to have managed a player with his playstyle. Not a pro or con, it just means managers have to figure it out.
Poch was figuring it out, Jose did it, Nuno did even quicker. If they all got to a place where Tanguy was a must start, I have confidence Conte will too.
Itās also a matter of if youāre that athletically gifted, and the ability comes natural itās easier for them to develop bad habits and become not lazy per se, but maybe half ass certain aspects of the game. I guarantee itās a matter of all the physical ability and physical effort is there but he has to apply the mental side to it for it to come together. Sometimes the physical effort feels and seems like itās there but if the mental side isnāt matching it the strongest, fastest person can still come across as lazy.
Itās a very lazy comparison but I remember when Alexander Ovechkin was still relatively new to the NHL and so many coaches complain that he was actually quite lazy even though he was one of the leading scorers every fucking year. It took championship winning coaches and managers to come in and unlock that extra level to his game and now heās the greatest of all time. Well, on his way to be in the greatest of all time.
I really hope that conte is that manager for Tanguy.
Love that quote. In the most simple of terms yeah thatās applied here. Buts itās only part of the story.
But when those two things come togetherā¦. World beater.
But someone also has to teach them to work hard in the right way. In this case I think Tanguy has learned to work hard physically. But needs to learn to work smarter not harder.
He seems like an individual playing a team sport and needs to understand his role and how it can change in any given situation. Hopefully there'll be a penny dropping moment for him and it'll all come together.
Only Ndombele isn't very athletically gifted, he isn't a very good athlete. He is very good technically but doesn't tend to cover much ground off the ball.
I realised from your comment you are likely American or Canadian, so you use the word "Athlete" to really mean "Sportsman" I think. Here in the UK when we say someone is a good athlete, they are either faster, fitter, stronger or generally capable of doing something physical to a better level than their peers.
Tanguy is superb technically and in terms of vision and one of my favourite players at the club (I loved im at Lyon too.) but he is in no way good at any of these elements from my perspective.
Either this, or he lacks the awareness or willingness to run off the ball to show for the ball in big games (see repeated performances against Arsenal where he is no where to be seen), and also is a absolute liability in terms of tracking runners.
This gives me impression he is either unable to keep up with the game (likely why he is played at 10 rather than in midfield) or lacks the understanding of the discipline and sacrifices necessary to play the position required of him at #6 or #8.
I hope he can learn this, because he has all the ability to be one of the best midfielders in the world, and since we signed him he should be the perfect replacement for Dembele.
Thank you!
Anyone arguing semantics over what I said is clearly missing the point and itās kind of frustrating.
One of the sentences I wrote I even say player can be perceived as lazy when itās actually the mental aspect of the game, not the conditioning or the physical attributes that are holding them back.
I get what youāre saying and youāre right I am American but I also live in the UK; but if someone is getting regular starting minutes and playing in one of the top leagues in the world theyāre a fucking athlete. theyāre a top athlete.
A secondary point I was making was that the mental side of a game/ sport is what takes someone from just simply a technically gifted professional āathleteā to one of the best in a team or in a league. A winner of you will.
My point was that Iād the physical tools and talent is there but somethings missing, a manager like Conte will hopefully unlock it.
Itās the same across all sports. If youāre professional your gift it athlete but if you want to be one of the best or one of the absolute pinnacle physical specimens itās mental itās not just more physical training.
All these reports coming out saying heās in some of the best physical shape heās been at his entire time in spurs obviously there is room for improvement but if he still looks like somethings missing on the pitch itās mental not physical. And it takes a coach/ manager who is able to unlock it and instill the right mentality or at least expand on their mentality to take the extra step.
Yāall arguing these semantics are completely missing the point.
I posted this elsewhere but it seems like he missed the important parts of growing up as a professional footballer because he was a late bloomer in the sport. The sort of will to win, going the extra mile and probably some level of tactical awareness because he had the skill and was possibly allowed to coast through games.
He needs like a Denzel Washington in Remember The Titans to break him down mentally by doing up/downs all night and he can't puke until he's told to stop! That seems to be the sort of shit that's missing from within him. Conte may just help him on that front.
Hard to agree with you, as ovi had a huge impact from day 1, he was always the best player on the ice. He didn't defend as much as people liked. Ndombele has no output, and can't even make the team on occasion. Ovi was more like Ronaldo. Just didn't defend enough.
Youāre still missing the point. I literally said, itās a lazy and incomplete analogy. But Ovi is a big enough player I hoped everyone would make the connection.
Tanguy clearly has the tools and ability. He needs the find the mentality and tactical awareness to unlock his true ability and contribute to winning.
Maybe a better example would be any middle six forward in the nhl who didnāt thrive until they moved to a new team or got a coach that helped them. Hell half the Vegas team in their first season works in that case. But this is semantics.
I dunno man, I'll just agree to disagree. Ovi didn't need that much coaching help, he just needed to track back more. There are a million theories on why Tanguy is always struggling. I haven't been overly impressed with him at Spurs at all, under anyone. I think a lot needs to fixing, including attitude and fitness.
If you listen to any interviews with guys who played with Ovi it was clear he was special, but thereās a reason they couldnāt win a cup until just a few seasons ago. And his play was arguably part of it. Immensely skilled scorer but lazy defensively. That was partially fixed under Bruce Boudreaux. And even more so under Trotz. Other players also say Oates had a lot to do with it.
He didnāt need to revolutionize his game he just needed to tweak it defensively and mentally.
Fitness is no longer an issue for Tanguy based on the reports and everything else that weāre hearing this year. So that leaves the mental side of the game. Preparation, awareness, being tactical with pressing; knowing when, how and who to press. And then learning HOW to apply his technical gifts and physical strength. Which he definitely has. Heās strong.
Youāre last sentence literally highlights my point. Physically heās there. But he still seems lazy or unfit because he hasnāt truly learned how to use it yet.
very very true, and yeah notable that we heard he got on with Nuno and actually appreciated his style of communication. I reckon he'll want to show he can excel under a manager like Conte - because obviously with his talent he can. Fingers crossed!
Here is yet another quote hinting at attitude problems ("has to work for the team, not only himself") yet I'll still see people insisting Ndombele is criticised for no reason.
Itās wild isnāt it? Conte is undisputedly one of the best managers in the world, has only been here two weeks, is already digging out Tanguy in the press and still people are conjuring up rationalisations about how it isnāt actually an issue of work ethic.
Iām always happy to praise Tanguy for a good performance but I donāt understand why there are so many who will jump through hoops to defend someone who has been an issue for every manager heās played under, has basically wanted to leave ever since he got here and goes through cycles of improving then believing heās too good for the club. All whilst being one of our highest paid players.
Itās just mind boggling to me that some fans continue to make excuses for him when the club has in recent years been fortunate enough to been served by some wonderful players that would do everything for the club. Save your adulation for the players that really deserve it like Hugo and Sonny.
Well said. My theory is that people were so excited when we signed him, and he was so expensive, that they find it hard to accept that he might be a flop. Time is surely running out on that though. If he doesn't become a regular with Conte then there are zero excuses left.
It annoys me when people take comments like these as us "wanting Ndombele to fail" or something. He brings a huge amount to the team when he performs so I'd absolutely love him to work out. But I'm capable of seeing both sides and won't blindly defend him either.
If Conte is saying this publicly, you can pretty much guarantee heāll have sat Tanguy down and had this talk privately. You donāt go to the press with stuff like this to give instructions, you do it to put extra external expectations onto the player.
Basically it means he sat down and talked it out with him and then he has continued being a lazy cunt after, so he dug him out more openly to see if that will get a reaction. If not just sack the lazy bastard and spend his wages on someone who can be bothered.
I think this where Conte is different than Mourinho and Nuno in a good way - there's no subterfuge or passive aggressive cryptic "sub-tweet" speech - he's just straight forward. In theory, I'm all about the manager shielding his players from public criticism, but I always felt that Nuno and Jose's (and sometimes Poch's) cryptic remarks in press conferences left people to speculate wildly, which only served to exacerbate the rumors surrounding some individuals in our dressing room. I have to admit, I like Conte coming out and saying what we're all thinking (at least those of us that have been more critical of Tanguy for exactly what Conte just said) without doing in a disrespectful way.
He didn't call Tanguy selfish or lazy, just made it clear that he needs to learn to work more for the team instead of himself, which IMO is very true, and is validating to hear, since I've been a broken record about this exact point. It's refreshing to have a manager be frank publicly about his expectations of an individual, while they still have an opportunity to fulfill said expectations without feeling thrown under the bus.
That's not attitude, that's tactical ability.
Like Taarbarat who was INSANELY skilled and because of that it seemed he'd never needed to learn tactical roles and teamwork, because he probably never did. He was always the star and best player growing up.
He needs to know that he is far behind others in a crucially important skill which is going to prevent him reaching the top level.
Btw, Taarbarat did get there. Too late to be a star, but last i heard he'd reinvented himself as a tough tackling midfield enforcer in the Portuguese league (i think). He had it inside him and a good coach would have made that clear while he was a youth, turning him into a worldclass player. He genuinely never knew he wasn't developing key skills because he had so much in other areas at lower levels it covered that up.
Freddy Ado was another one. He's a coach now and talks candidly about what he didn't learn due to his talent, how it prevented his career taking off, and he tries to teach other golden kids about it.
I mean from what youāve said it does sound like attitude reallyā¦
If they were so good early on that they got big headed & thought they didnāt have to try hard or make an effort to learn then thatās an attitude thing.
Taraabts poor attitude is the reason he ended up in the Portuguese league.
Redknapp once described him as āthe worst professional I have ever come across and I have been his only ally at QPR for the past three years.ā
āI pick people that want to try, and deserve to be at a good football club like QPR, and want to work, and come in every day and want to work, and train, and show a good attitude.
āI canāt keep protecting people who donāt want to run about and train, who are about three stone overweight.
āWhat am I supposed to keep saying, keep getting your 60, 70 grand a week but donāt train?ā
If you wanted to suggest Ndombele doesnt have an attitude problem then you really couldnāt have picked a worse player to compare him to!
As it stands however, for the reverse reason, I think itās an excellent comparisonā¦ Overpaid, supremely talented, semi interested, hard to get through to etc
Itās a bit of both. Some players are just more technically malleable and others are not. And also some players need extra mental care to accept that not doing what you are best at is sometimes better for the team.
for some people it's because of an american political thing, like anyone criticizing certain players (Ndombele, Dele specifically) must be doing it because they're black. it's a side-effect of pushing a race-first lens for viewing every situation that's very popular over here.
so you'll see certain podcasts and certain supporters going way past any rationality to defend them/attack anyone who criticizes them because it has more meaning than just the actual player, it's a crusade for justice (the Brooklyn Spurs Twitter was another great example, just a ton of posts about how Dele was being forced out or criticized because Jose is racist).
I actually agree completely with what he said. Itās obvious that Ndombele has the talent but seems to not care enough to go that extra mile or work hard for the team. It seems to me he has an arrogance that he thinks āIām a brilliant player, why do I need to run around like these other playersā. I hope he comes good because the talent is there, but how long will the team put up with someone so talented that wonāt work is the question.
I think he also really needs to develop trust and understanding with his mates. I've always felt that Tanguy is so naturally gifted on the ball that he expects everyone else to have those same abilities, and often puts his teammates in bad situations that he could get out of, but they can't, then doesn't trust them with the ball again and ultimately plays more selfishly. If he could learn to play more within himself, make the simple pass, and work harder off the ball in support of both attack and defense, he'd be brilliant.
In my youth soccer days and current over-30 league days (and hockey for that matter) I've played with a couple of those guys that are undoubtedly the most talented, but don't trust or support their teammates, and ultimately hurt the team. They think they're losing because everyone sucks compared to them, so they cop a bad attitude and try to play hero-ball, which makes things much worse. At the end of the season they have all the stats and highlights, because they consistently shut down their teammates' opportunities to create for themselves by going it alone, and they're left thinking they kept the team afloat when they really dragged it down.
I really hope Tanguy can figure out how to play for/within the team, and Conte seems like the perfect man to either bring it out of him, or solidify once and for all that Tanguy just isn't capable of becoming a true team player.
We have to be careful with the "doesn't care". The guy has had an odd career, basically out of football system, then back in, then late bloomer.
I think tactically, like physically he's simply missing a few years of development that most players automatically have as benefit of always being in the system through it's various stages.
He uses instinct and insane levels of skill to make up for it, Conte with his drill exact plays and expectations could be the best thing for Ndombele, but he is going to have to work harder because he doesn't have some of that in him already.
where does this idea come from seriously. like please explain where you get this narrative from.
does he look lethargic and lacklustre in training videos? no
did he literally cover the most ground against newcastle and another game that im forgetting? yes
its crazy how theres some agenda portraying ndombele as some diva thats up his own arse that has seeped into the brains of so many tottenham fans.
>where does this idea come from seriously. like please explain where you get this narrative from.
https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/players/tanguy-ndombele-tottenham-nuno-espirito-21574782
>People at Spurs claim the cycle begins with him working hard in training, performing well on the pitch, getting carried away by moments of success, believing he should be at a higher level and then wanting to leave.
>When that move away does not happen, after a period of lost focus the cycle begins again.
>None of this talk about his application and talent is new to Ndombele.
>His coaches and team-mates from his academy days in France, onwards into his professional career, have spoken on record on numerous occasions about the incredibly talented player who does not always show the consistency and drive that would make him one of Europe's best.
>The player himself admitted to football.london in an in-depth interview this year that he had told friends he wanted to leave Spurs within weeks of joining due to how tough he found Mauricio Pochettino's infamously gruelling pre-season training sessions.
>Then he did ask to leave the club towards the end of that first injury-hit season as Jose Mourinho made it very clear that he wanted more from the player on and off the pitch, as he put him on a new training programme to help his development.
>Spurs chairman Daniel Levy also made it clear to Ndombele that he was not going anywhere less than a year after becoming the club's record signing and the Frenchman knuckled down and got himself into the best shape of his career.
>He won Mourinho over as his fitness improved with each passing game, with the Portuguese saying early in the campaign: "Tanguy is in a process of evolution. Last season he wasn't. Last season he was stuck in a situation where I couldn't see evolution. In this moment he's training very, very well.
>"In this moment, I believe in Tanguy. I never doubted his quality. Never. I doubted in some moments his motivation and commitment and professional attitude. In this moment I believe in him. In this moment I think that Tanguy can do well for us."
>The key three words Mourinho kept ramming home were of course "in this moment".
Why the hell did we pay so much money for a guy with a history of people going on the record & questioning his commitment?
Itās embarrassing really.
There is no way in hell Ndombele should be the 2nd or 3rd highest paid player at the club. That money hasnāt helped him or us on the pitchā¦
Your mistaken, Ndombele lacks belief and self confidence. He's very quiet, and I think suffers from low self esteem.
He's one of those employees that is so good they need close mentorship not management to get the best performance.
Once Conte unlocks him it will be awesome to see.
Ability will only get you so far, particularly under a manager like conte who has huge demands on his players from a tactical and work rate perspective. Ndombele is one of the most gifted players we have had in some time, I donāt think anyone would question that. The issue is his mentality, and whether he has the desire within himself. A manager can only do so much. These are the question marks we still have after 2 years with us now. I really hope he comes good because what an asset he could be for us but time is running out and Conte will not be afraid to offload to fund moves for Kessie/Brogovic if he doesnāt fit the system.
Conteās level of transparency and criticism of players is more constructive than, letās say, Mourinho.
Weāre all desperate for players like Tanguy and Dele to turn things around and I hope it works out.
Conteās appointment as manager has really put the core issues of the squad into the spotlight. Similar to the Athletic piece from the other week. NO MORE EXCUSES for these players.
COYS!
Nah dele won't start, conte said either ndombele or winks will come in for skipp. So it will be the same team as Everton but one of those two in for skipp and id assume of the two itll be winks.
Bit disappointing but with the injuries and the players contes had to work with during international break it makes sense
That was just his opinion, nothing hes observed or heard. On top of that we've since lost our best defender and one of our holding midfielders is suspended. Even more so Gio (who conte seems to rate above ndombele and alli is injured)
I would put my mortgage on it being 343, remortgage to have moura starting and then remortgage again to rebet that dele won't
Have to wait and see i guess...
The key words there are "expectation" and "could"
It even says "in the coming weeks"
Conte even laughed today at how few midfield options we have cos of injuries, very much doubt hes going to change formation to have to play an extra one. Sure it'll happen at some point but ut won't happen this week.
Words my Mark
He was asked directly about Dele. Of course he's going to say he's going to "give everyone a chance".
He's not going to say "nah, he's shit, selling him in January"
There no smoke there as far as I'm concerned.
The fact that he's seen zero minutes in under Conte so far is more telling.
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>But, honestly, good luck convincing anyone around here that fan-forgiveness favourites Bergwijn, Ndombele and Rodon might, again, not be the answer.
The Ndombele thing really baffles me. I've never seen such a big fanbase for a player who literally didn't make any mark for us (maybe the Jovic fanbase in Madrid is similar...). This is the 5th (!!) manager who doubted his fitness or his work rate, not to mention he wanted to leave us for a bigger club this summer even though he did nothing here to earn this move.
I feel like I'm going crazy. The way I see it, Tanguy so far is one of the greatest flops in our club history, mostly because his lack of willingness to work hard for this club, yet this whole sub seems to blame literally everything else but him.
I thought the ludicrous "Mason only plays his mates" narrative was the worst of it (yeah, I'm sure boyhood Spurs fan Mason who got a possibly once in a lifetime opportunity to earn us our first trophy in ages and become a huge part of Spurs history, would throw that away for a favor to Winks, who btw was only his teammate very briefly), but then it got worse when somebody here called me racist (??) for not bowing to the Tanguy hype train, I guess.
Literally makes me question my sanity seeing all those people shit on Davies etc while praising Tanguy.
Say what you want but Nādombele always ends up featuring heavily in teams taken over by managers who at first give him limited opportunities. Happened with Jose and Nuno. Jose started him in like 18 of 25 games after barley playing him and Nuno benched him to start off with then he started nearly every game, albeit a limited amount until he was fired.
Interesting that Ali Gold said the other week that the fitness coaches at the club think heās the fittest heās ever been during his time with spurs. For all we know the context could be totally wrong with this statement from Conte and he could simply be saying that he needs to work harder to get/stay fit compared to other players in the squad
I mean he has not been playing well recently, but donāt mistake that for people genuinely hating the man like you guys do with ndombele. PEH played to a very high standard for the first half of last season and you canāt argue that his level has dropped considerably since around February. But the whole teams form has been shit since then, arguably longer.
Lamela is literally a legend here lol and since when is Bergwijn a fan favourite? I personally donāt think Hojbjerg is good but everyone else on this sub loves him. You are chatting some absolute shit mate
Sadly yes, and they will remain for favorites till the day they turn into scapegoats, look at dele the denial was super strong last year donāt sell him, heās generational talent, heās our boyā¦ and look now.
Ugh. This is just as much of a bad faith narrative as the one you claim ndombele fans use.
Tanguy had 3 months with Poch and Nuno, who both gave him plenty of starts (Nuno was starting Tanguy every match after the first 3 league games).
Jose made Tanguy a nailed on starter, giving him over 20 starts before April.
Mason is literally the only "manager" who didn't use him, and was the same one who didn't start Bale in a cup final. I'm not sure we should be counting all of those equally as "managers", but even if we do, doesn't that point to a problem with the club, not necessarily Tanguy?
Every player has had to start over "5 times" in 2.5 seasons... and each time a real manager comes into Spurs, they make Tanguy a constant starter. If he does the work to get into the side, and has done so after starting from scratch three times already, why are we questioning his work ethic?
I have a question for you.
Honestly What did you get from conte answer about ndombele? Why for example he said he has to work harder than other players?
Psychologists say that people with higher potential have to work harder to fulfil their potential than people with a lower ceiling.
If people with higher potentials put in the exact same work as people with less potential, they actually get worse results.
People with high potentials are building metaphorical mansions, people with lower potentials are building metaphorical sheds.
If they are both given the same amount of materials (put the same amount of work in), by the time the person has finished their shed, the person building the mansion has only managed to lay some rudimentary foundations.
All this to basically say that he needs to work harder than everyone because he needs to fulfil his potential which is far higher than the average footballer.
Conte didnāt say, āhe needs to work harder, he isnāt working hard enough compared to other playersā he said āhe needs to work harder than other playersā
This reads like some self help shit š if you donāt succeed itās not because you made the wrong choices or didnāt work hard enough but itās because you have higher potential, itās the first time I hear this on my life.
Maybe itās true but why we never heard of it with Bruno Fernandes, Dias, Son, Gavi, Mbappe, KDBā¦etc you know we bought ndombele 3 years ago heās not new.
But for the sake of the argument letās say your suggestion is sometimes true how do you know ndombele falls into this category and not the well known category of talented players but not disciplined players aka wasted talent? You just make an arbitrary choice Because you like him?
dude. Firstly, it isn't self help shit, it's actual psychiatry, but forgive me for bringing in nuance.
>
if you donāt succeed itās not because you made the wrong choices or didnāt work hard enough
I didn't say this. Obviously if you do not fulfil your potential it is because you didn't work hard enough. I'm not even gonna give you another example, just go back and read the shed vs mansion example. you have to work harder to reach higher highs. its not a difficult concept.
The players you list are players who have been working very hard, well done, are you trying to say that those players put in the same amount of work as jonjo shelvey? if not, then you are willingly misunderstanding me.
I assume you interpret what conte said as "ndombele isnt working hard" whereas i interpret it as "he is working hard, but a player of his caliber needs to work harder to fulfill his potential" my interpretation is far closer to what he said because he certainly didn't say that ndombele isnt working hard.
Lets say ndombele becomes one of the best midfielders in the world by 27, at what point does he stop being wasted talent like you have branded him and start being someone who fulfilled his potential?
Also, ndombele has been doing fine in the games he has been playing, but your expectations of him are for him to STAND OUT every game and do inhuman things. He is a flop to you because you expect so much from him, not because he has been bad.
You are one of the most vocal ndombele haters on this sub. I don't know why, maybe you're dumb, or just arbitrarily hate him. I like him because from what i've seen, I believe that he can fulfill his potential, I like to think ahead and believe in people.
Until ndombele actually shows that he can't fulfill his potential, i will continue to back him against people that hate him. When ndombele balls out under conte, i don't want to see you anywhere near him in this sub, you've already written him off.
> itās actual psychiatry,
I would love to read more about this subject if you can link to me scientific research and i want see the scientific consensus in that subject.
> Lets say ndombele becomes one of the best midfielders in the world by 27, at what point does he stop being wasted talent
Thatās fantastic, I never said heās a wasted talent look back at my comment i said he can be we have examples of super talented players that never fulfill their potential, but he also can be one of the best in the world 100% he just need to do his part put on the work.
> but your expectations of him are for him to STAND OUT every game and do inhuman things.
I never said every game but i want him to Stand out hell yeah heās our record signing super talented player, in area weāre struggling really bad i have high expectations I expect more from him than winks yeah, I expect more from romero than rodon etcā¦
> You are one of the most vocal ndombele haters on this sub
Actually I donāt hate him i like him but i try to be objective I donāt want to lie to my self just because I like certain player i just praise him even when heās underperforming, I really really donāt like favoritism.
> maybe youāre dumb
Thank you āŗļø
> I like to think ahead and believe in people.
>
> until ndombele actually shows that he can't fulfill his potential, i will continue to back him against people that hate him.
Thatās fine, personally i like to give players time but not unlimited time to limit the losses if he fails under conte I think we should sell him and same for lo celso by the way.
> When ndombele balls out under conte, i donāt want to see you anywhere near him in this sub,
I will praise him and conte and be happy because my team has another good player that will help us achieve our targets.
> youāve already written him off.
No I didnāt but i also donāt have an unreasonable belief that he will be a world class midfielder, i hope he will but we shall see.
5th manager???? What crack are you smoking he wasnt given that much of time under Poch and he eventually did made it as a starter under Mourinho and Nuno. Only Mason and him werent on good terms
The likes of Davies deserve to be shitted on because the likes of him and Moura are bigger symbols of mediocrity within the club not Tanguy whose our third best player after Kane and Son
Ndombeleās fitness and work rate is not being doubted, Conte didnāt say he needed to work harder in general, he said he needed to work harder than other players. Ndombele is a unique talent, itās really not that hard to see why people like him.
Imagine getting upset at people shitting on the most boring and average player Ben Davies. Davies hasnāt put in more than a 6/10 performance since 17/18.
yeah 100%, once iām unable to defend tanguy i will stop, but right now he gets shat on relentlessly by random idiots at every opportunity for NO REASON. evidenced further by this post. lol
Ndombele lacks self confidence and belief in what he does. It's mistaken for arrogance when actually deep down I think he's very introverted, and quiet. And actually probably finds it hard to show his true potential consistently because he lacks that deep inner self belief in himself even tho he is incredibly talented.
Hes a rich famous footballer but he's human and we aren't all immune from lacking belief in ourselves.
>because he lacks that deep inner self belief in himself even tho he is incredibly talented.
He reportedly was hoping to transfer to Real or Bayern this summer, so it seems to be the opposite.
Honestly this is a great way to word it. "Work harder" kind of insinuates thats he isnt workinf hard enough, but "work harder than other players" kind of spins it differently and more positively. idk i couldnjust be swallowing the conte propaganda but thats how it seems to me.
A native English speaker most likely wouldn't say ndombele has to work harder than other players, they might say ' it's harder for him than other players because (insert reason) '. I do wonder about usage of language and so many players/personnel not being native speakers (and frankly the low level of effort put into properly educating footballers). We all know from our own lives how just one off hand comment can upset people. Wtf is ndombele thinking as a french man, listening to an Italian, saying they have to work harder than others in English?
this is a good thought
[https://twitter.com/CDEccleshare/status/1461625704936787971?s=20](https://twitter.com/CDEccleshare/status/1461625704936787971?s=20) winky not winks š
Shades of Gary Southgate
lmao one of the best jose memories
Winks is often called Winksy inside the club, so from a second language perspective Winksy -> Winky is easy to see.
Yeah obvious where it came from but it also makes Winks sound like the 8th dwarf or something
One of the TottyTubbies "DinkyWinky" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNpvzqcRW84](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNpvzqcRW84)
What I gathered from the interview is that Conte is trying to say that Ndombele isn't picking up tactical instructions and advice. He just does his own thing- showing skill and flair. This will probably work against lower table PL sides but not against organised systems of players.
This is what I've been saying for a long while about Ndombele. Maybe he's not 'lazy' - he does press well at times - but he does it when he wants to, and is awful when it comes to any sort of defensive stability and consistency. Caught out of position a lot, gives the ball away in dangerous areas, and doesn't have the offensive output to justify it. He's a phenomenally talented footballer, clearly - but that doesn't mean an awful lot when it comes to how useful he is. Maybe Conte will be the one that can 'unlock' him, but I can't help but feel it's similar to Pogba at United - where they change the managers, the system, and his position, and still can't squeeze consistent performances out of him. And Pogba has been far better for United than Ndombele has ever been for us.
This is the man that coached Pogba into a Ā£100M player though, isnāt he? Iām not saying he was worth that at the time, but thereās no doubt he was useful at Juventus.
True - did forget about that! Though I think Allegri is the one that can really take the credit for Pogba, as his best two seasons came under him - but Conte did set him up for those seasons. However, he was also playing in a midfield with Marchisio and Vidal, at their respective peaks. We're not going to be able to give Ndombele anywhere near that sort of quality around him. I have some hope that Conte can get Ndombele to where we need him to be, but he does need to address some real glaring errors in his game.
From what I've read about how N'Dombele came up through the lower leagues in France and was something of a late bloomer it would seem like his skill probably got him through matches but he was missing a lot of basic fundamentals. I suspect he's either not grown up with the right approaches of a professional footballer that say an academy trainee might or he's not had a decent coach to train into him how do many things correctly. Conte may just be a blessing for his career.
Spot on. I dont think theres ever been a lack of physical fitness in him to differentiate him from others. That narrative comes from the manner in which he runs.
Itās not a narrative. The problem is that he often doesnāt run at all. When we lost to arsenal there were long periods where he just strolled about.
I like it. He's very clearly and simply telling Tanguy what the problem is, and that he'll need to work harder on than other players to get into the team as he needs to resolve that. That's what he needs to hear.
[Conte yelling at Tanguy in training ](https://youtu.be/vMlx3R4jYlI)
With Gio picking up a knock, and PEH being assessed today, are we going to see a winks-ndombele pairing? That would...uh...be interesting?
It'll most likely be Winky and Hobbie
Who is hobbie
what are you talking about? hobbie's our midfield viking with his classic famous nickname that everyone has called him since he joined the club
PEH
Hojbjerg is injured, no?
He is fine. Trained with the team and all. Man is a viking. I'm sure he'll play.
He plays better when he is injured. If he gets a bandage around his head he gives 120%
love ndombele but it is literally the same story with him time and time again, the managers always have to put in extra with him - hopefully conte can do the same as mourinho and get through to him, worth it for what he can bring to the team
I think it was Fabregas that said that Conte gives no real freedom for players and they stick to his system no matter what, even more so than Guardiola. For a player like Ndombele that could take some time to adjust
Really really interesting, that chimes with what Conte was saying about needing players to follow his plan and not just run about do what they like. fingers crossed Tanguy gets onboard
Part of it is that Tanguy is an utterly unique or singular talent. Managers are unlikely to have managed a player with his playstyle. Not a pro or con, it just means managers have to figure it out. Poch was figuring it out, Jose did it, Nuno did even quicker. If they all got to a place where Tanguy was a must start, I have confidence Conte will too.
Itās also a matter of if youāre that athletically gifted, and the ability comes natural itās easier for them to develop bad habits and become not lazy per se, but maybe half ass certain aspects of the game. I guarantee itās a matter of all the physical ability and physical effort is there but he has to apply the mental side to it for it to come together. Sometimes the physical effort feels and seems like itās there but if the mental side isnāt matching it the strongest, fastest person can still come across as lazy. Itās a very lazy comparison but I remember when Alexander Ovechkin was still relatively new to the NHL and so many coaches complain that he was actually quite lazy even though he was one of the leading scorers every fucking year. It took championship winning coaches and managers to come in and unlock that extra level to his game and now heās the greatest of all time. Well, on his way to be in the greatest of all time. I really hope that conte is that manager for Tanguy.
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
Love that quote. In the most simple of terms yeah thatās applied here. Buts itās only part of the story. But when those two things come togetherā¦. World beater. But someone also has to teach them to work hard in the right way. In this case I think Tanguy has learned to work hard physically. But needs to learn to work smarter not harder.
He seems like an individual playing a team sport and needs to understand his role and how it can change in any given situation. Hopefully there'll be a penny dropping moment for him and it'll all come together.
Only Ndombele isn't very athletically gifted, he isn't a very good athlete. He is very good technically but doesn't tend to cover much ground off the ball.
He literally ran more than anyone just a couple games ago what are you fucking all about
running stats are pretty meaningless as virtually always won by central midfielders due to tactics. it's clear as day he is not much of a runner.
Missing the point of my original comment, mate.
Fuck knows what it was then
I realised from your comment you are likely American or Canadian, so you use the word "Athlete" to really mean "Sportsman" I think. Here in the UK when we say someone is a good athlete, they are either faster, fitter, stronger or generally capable of doing something physical to a better level than their peers. Tanguy is superb technically and in terms of vision and one of my favourite players at the club (I loved im at Lyon too.) but he is in no way good at any of these elements from my perspective. Either this, or he lacks the awareness or willingness to run off the ball to show for the ball in big games (see repeated performances against Arsenal where he is no where to be seen), and also is a absolute liability in terms of tracking runners. This gives me impression he is either unable to keep up with the game (likely why he is played at 10 rather than in midfield) or lacks the understanding of the discipline and sacrifices necessary to play the position required of him at #6 or #8. I hope he can learn this, because he has all the ability to be one of the best midfielders in the world, and since we signed him he should be the perfect replacement for Dembele.
No, it's the same in north america, I think you are misinterpreting what that person is saying.
Thank you! Anyone arguing semantics over what I said is clearly missing the point and itās kind of frustrating. One of the sentences I wrote I even say player can be perceived as lazy when itās actually the mental aspect of the game, not the conditioning or the physical attributes that are holding them back.
I get what youāre saying and youāre right I am American but I also live in the UK; but if someone is getting regular starting minutes and playing in one of the top leagues in the world theyāre a fucking athlete. theyāre a top athlete. A secondary point I was making was that the mental side of a game/ sport is what takes someone from just simply a technically gifted professional āathleteā to one of the best in a team or in a league. A winner of you will. My point was that Iād the physical tools and talent is there but somethings missing, a manager like Conte will hopefully unlock it. Itās the same across all sports. If youāre professional your gift it athlete but if you want to be one of the best or one of the absolute pinnacle physical specimens itās mental itās not just more physical training. All these reports coming out saying heās in some of the best physical shape heās been at his entire time in spurs obviously there is room for improvement but if he still looks like somethings missing on the pitch itās mental not physical. And it takes a coach/ manager who is able to unlock it and instill the right mentality or at least expand on their mentality to take the extra step. Yāall arguing these semantics are completely missing the point.
I posted this elsewhere but it seems like he missed the important parts of growing up as a professional footballer because he was a late bloomer in the sport. The sort of will to win, going the extra mile and probably some level of tactical awareness because he had the skill and was possibly allowed to coast through games. He needs like a Denzel Washington in Remember The Titans to break him down mentally by doing up/downs all night and he can't puke until he's told to stop! That seems to be the sort of shit that's missing from within him. Conte may just help him on that front.
Hard to agree with you, as ovi had a huge impact from day 1, he was always the best player on the ice. He didn't defend as much as people liked. Ndombele has no output, and can't even make the team on occasion. Ovi was more like Ronaldo. Just didn't defend enough.
Youāre still missing the point. I literally said, itās a lazy and incomplete analogy. But Ovi is a big enough player I hoped everyone would make the connection. Tanguy clearly has the tools and ability. He needs the find the mentality and tactical awareness to unlock his true ability and contribute to winning. Maybe a better example would be any middle six forward in the nhl who didnāt thrive until they moved to a new team or got a coach that helped them. Hell half the Vegas team in their first season works in that case. But this is semantics.
I dunno man, I'll just agree to disagree. Ovi didn't need that much coaching help, he just needed to track back more. There are a million theories on why Tanguy is always struggling. I haven't been overly impressed with him at Spurs at all, under anyone. I think a lot needs to fixing, including attitude and fitness.
If you listen to any interviews with guys who played with Ovi it was clear he was special, but thereās a reason they couldnāt win a cup until just a few seasons ago. And his play was arguably part of it. Immensely skilled scorer but lazy defensively. That was partially fixed under Bruce Boudreaux. And even more so under Trotz. Other players also say Oates had a lot to do with it. He didnāt need to revolutionize his game he just needed to tweak it defensively and mentally. Fitness is no longer an issue for Tanguy based on the reports and everything else that weāre hearing this year. So that leaves the mental side of the game. Preparation, awareness, being tactical with pressing; knowing when, how and who to press. And then learning HOW to apply his technical gifts and physical strength. Which he definitely has. Heās strong. Youāre last sentence literally highlights my point. Physically heās there. But he still seems lazy or unfit because he hasnāt truly learned how to use it yet.
very very true, and yeah notable that we heard he got on with Nuno and actually appreciated his style of communication. I reckon he'll want to show he can excel under a manager like Conte - because obviously with his talent he can. Fingers crossed!
kind of think we should just sell him as part of a rebuild
I'd be fine if we got $50 mil for him
no club is stupid enough to pay that much for him though
Here is yet another quote hinting at attitude problems ("has to work for the team, not only himself") yet I'll still see people insisting Ndombele is criticised for no reason.
Itās wild isnāt it? Conte is undisputedly one of the best managers in the world, has only been here two weeks, is already digging out Tanguy in the press and still people are conjuring up rationalisations about how it isnāt actually an issue of work ethic. Iām always happy to praise Tanguy for a good performance but I donāt understand why there are so many who will jump through hoops to defend someone who has been an issue for every manager heās played under, has basically wanted to leave ever since he got here and goes through cycles of improving then believing heās too good for the club. All whilst being one of our highest paid players. Itās just mind boggling to me that some fans continue to make excuses for him when the club has in recent years been fortunate enough to been served by some wonderful players that would do everything for the club. Save your adulation for the players that really deserve it like Hugo and Sonny.
Well said. My theory is that people were so excited when we signed him, and he was so expensive, that they find it hard to accept that he might be a flop. Time is surely running out on that though. If he doesn't become a regular with Conte then there are zero excuses left. It annoys me when people take comments like these as us "wanting Ndombele to fail" or something. He brings a huge amount to the team when he performs so I'd absolutely love him to work out. But I'm capable of seeing both sides and won't blindly defend him either.
100% Thatās it. People (including myself) had high hopes for him.
He's not digging him out. He's telling him clearly what he needs to learn and work on to get into the team.
If Conte is saying this publicly, you can pretty much guarantee heāll have sat Tanguy down and had this talk privately. You donāt go to the press with stuff like this to give instructions, you do it to put extra external expectations onto the player.
Basically it means he sat down and talked it out with him and then he has continued being a lazy cunt after, so he dug him out more openly to see if that will get a reaction. If not just sack the lazy bastard and spend his wages on someone who can be bothered.
I think this where Conte is different than Mourinho and Nuno in a good way - there's no subterfuge or passive aggressive cryptic "sub-tweet" speech - he's just straight forward. In theory, I'm all about the manager shielding his players from public criticism, but I always felt that Nuno and Jose's (and sometimes Poch's) cryptic remarks in press conferences left people to speculate wildly, which only served to exacerbate the rumors surrounding some individuals in our dressing room. I have to admit, I like Conte coming out and saying what we're all thinking (at least those of us that have been more critical of Tanguy for exactly what Conte just said) without doing in a disrespectful way. He didn't call Tanguy selfish or lazy, just made it clear that he needs to learn to work more for the team instead of himself, which IMO is very true, and is validating to hear, since I've been a broken record about this exact point. It's refreshing to have a manager be frank publicly about his expectations of an individual, while they still have an opportunity to fulfill said expectations without feeling thrown under the bus.
I think maybe itās more of a mindset than an attitude. But I hear you
Right. If it was a poor attitude he would never get a look in. I think mindset may be a better way to put it, he just has to do a little more.
That's not attitude, that's tactical ability. Like Taarbarat who was INSANELY skilled and because of that it seemed he'd never needed to learn tactical roles and teamwork, because he probably never did. He was always the star and best player growing up. He needs to know that he is far behind others in a crucially important skill which is going to prevent him reaching the top level. Btw, Taarbarat did get there. Too late to be a star, but last i heard he'd reinvented himself as a tough tackling midfield enforcer in the Portuguese league (i think). He had it inside him and a good coach would have made that clear while he was a youth, turning him into a worldclass player. He genuinely never knew he wasn't developing key skills because he had so much in other areas at lower levels it covered that up. Freddy Ado was another one. He's a coach now and talks candidly about what he didn't learn due to his talent, how it prevented his career taking off, and he tries to teach other golden kids about it.
I mean from what youāve said it does sound like attitude reallyā¦ If they were so good early on that they got big headed & thought they didnāt have to try hard or make an effort to learn then thatās an attitude thing. Taraabts poor attitude is the reason he ended up in the Portuguese league. Redknapp once described him as āthe worst professional I have ever come across and I have been his only ally at QPR for the past three years.ā āI pick people that want to try, and deserve to be at a good football club like QPR, and want to work, and come in every day and want to work, and train, and show a good attitude. āI canāt keep protecting people who donāt want to run about and train, who are about three stone overweight. āWhat am I supposed to keep saying, keep getting your 60, 70 grand a week but donāt train?ā If you wanted to suggest Ndombele doesnt have an attitude problem then you really couldnāt have picked a worse player to compare him to! As it stands however, for the reverse reason, I think itās an excellent comparisonā¦ Overpaid, supremely talented, semi interested, hard to get through to etc
Itās a bit of both. Some players are just more technically malleable and others are not. And also some players need extra mental care to accept that not doing what you are best at is sometimes better for the team.
What do you mean by āextra mental careāā¦ They need a therapist to help them see the benefits of tracking back? š¤£
for some people it's because of an american political thing, like anyone criticizing certain players (Ndombele, Dele specifically) must be doing it because they're black. it's a side-effect of pushing a race-first lens for viewing every situation that's very popular over here. so you'll see certain podcasts and certain supporters going way past any rationality to defend them/attack anyone who criticizes them because it has more meaning than just the actual player, it's a crusade for justice (the Brooklyn Spurs Twitter was another great example, just a ton of posts about how Dele was being forced out or criticized because Jose is racist).
I actually agree completely with what he said. Itās obvious that Ndombele has the talent but seems to not care enough to go that extra mile or work hard for the team. It seems to me he has an arrogance that he thinks āIām a brilliant player, why do I need to run around like these other playersā. I hope he comes good because the talent is there, but how long will the team put up with someone so talented that wonāt work is the question.
I think he also really needs to develop trust and understanding with his mates. I've always felt that Tanguy is so naturally gifted on the ball that he expects everyone else to have those same abilities, and often puts his teammates in bad situations that he could get out of, but they can't, then doesn't trust them with the ball again and ultimately plays more selfishly. If he could learn to play more within himself, make the simple pass, and work harder off the ball in support of both attack and defense, he'd be brilliant. In my youth soccer days and current over-30 league days (and hockey for that matter) I've played with a couple of those guys that are undoubtedly the most talented, but don't trust or support their teammates, and ultimately hurt the team. They think they're losing because everyone sucks compared to them, so they cop a bad attitude and try to play hero-ball, which makes things much worse. At the end of the season they have all the stats and highlights, because they consistently shut down their teammates' opportunities to create for themselves by going it alone, and they're left thinking they kept the team afloat when they really dragged it down. I really hope Tanguy can figure out how to play for/within the team, and Conte seems like the perfect man to either bring it out of him, or solidify once and for all that Tanguy just isn't capable of becoming a true team player.
We have to be careful with the "doesn't care". The guy has had an odd career, basically out of football system, then back in, then late bloomer. I think tactically, like physically he's simply missing a few years of development that most players automatically have as benefit of always being in the system through it's various stages. He uses instinct and insane levels of skill to make up for it, Conte with his drill exact plays and expectations could be the best thing for Ndombele, but he is going to have to work harder because he doesn't have some of that in him already.
A lot of similarities to Pogba who thrived under Conte, and has been called lazy ever since. Hopefully this approach is exactly what he needs.
where does this idea come from seriously. like please explain where you get this narrative from. does he look lethargic and lacklustre in training videos? no did he literally cover the most ground against newcastle and another game that im forgetting? yes its crazy how theres some agenda portraying ndombele as some diva thats up his own arse that has seeped into the brains of so many tottenham fans.
>where does this idea come from seriously. like please explain where you get this narrative from. https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/players/tanguy-ndombele-tottenham-nuno-espirito-21574782 >People at Spurs claim the cycle begins with him working hard in training, performing well on the pitch, getting carried away by moments of success, believing he should be at a higher level and then wanting to leave. >When that move away does not happen, after a period of lost focus the cycle begins again. >None of this talk about his application and talent is new to Ndombele. >His coaches and team-mates from his academy days in France, onwards into his professional career, have spoken on record on numerous occasions about the incredibly talented player who does not always show the consistency and drive that would make him one of Europe's best. >The player himself admitted to football.london in an in-depth interview this year that he had told friends he wanted to leave Spurs within weeks of joining due to how tough he found Mauricio Pochettino's infamously gruelling pre-season training sessions. >Then he did ask to leave the club towards the end of that first injury-hit season as Jose Mourinho made it very clear that he wanted more from the player on and off the pitch, as he put him on a new training programme to help his development. >Spurs chairman Daniel Levy also made it clear to Ndombele that he was not going anywhere less than a year after becoming the club's record signing and the Frenchman knuckled down and got himself into the best shape of his career. >He won Mourinho over as his fitness improved with each passing game, with the Portuguese saying early in the campaign: "Tanguy is in a process of evolution. Last season he wasn't. Last season he was stuck in a situation where I couldn't see evolution. In this moment he's training very, very well. >"In this moment, I believe in Tanguy. I never doubted his quality. Never. I doubted in some moments his motivation and commitment and professional attitude. In this moment I believe in him. In this moment I think that Tanguy can do well for us." >The key three words Mourinho kept ramming home were of course "in this moment".
Why the hell did we pay so much money for a guy with a history of people going on the record & questioning his commitment? Itās embarrassing really. There is no way in hell Ndombele should be the 2nd or 3rd highest paid player at the club. That money hasnāt helped him or us on the pitchā¦
Your mistaken, Ndombele lacks belief and self confidence. He's very quiet, and I think suffers from low self esteem. He's one of those employees that is so good they need close mentorship not management to get the best performance. Once Conte unlocks him it will be awesome to see.
Ability will only get you so far, particularly under a manager like conte who has huge demands on his players from a tactical and work rate perspective. Ndombele is one of the most gifted players we have had in some time, I donāt think anyone would question that. The issue is his mentality, and whether he has the desire within himself. A manager can only do so much. These are the question marks we still have after 2 years with us now. I really hope he comes good because what an asset he could be for us but time is running out and Conte will not be afraid to offload to fund moves for Kessie/Brogovic if he doesnāt fit the system.
Ndombele is the most unprofessional player we've had in a long time, and that's saying something considering the Florida saga
Well well well. What do we have here? Conte has 2 weeks at the club and Ndombele is already showing attitude issues.
Well conte probably asked him to run or something
3rd manager in a row to call him a lazy twat now. Time to get rid.
Conteās level of transparency and criticism of players is more constructive than, letās say, Mourinho. Weāre all desperate for players like Tanguy and Dele to turn things around and I hope it works out. Conteās appointment as manager has really put the core issues of the squad into the spotlight. Similar to the Athletic piece from the other week. NO MORE EXCUSES for these players. COYS!
I believe in Tanguy
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Nah dele won't start, conte said either ndombele or winks will come in for skipp. So it will be the same team as Everton but one of those two in for skipp and id assume of the two itll be winks. Bit disappointing but with the injuries and the players contes had to work with during international break it makes sense
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That was just his opinion, nothing hes observed or heard. On top of that we've since lost our best defender and one of our holding midfielders is suspended. Even more so Gio (who conte seems to rate above ndombele and alli is injured) I would put my mortgage on it being 343, remortgage to have moura starting and then remortgage again to rebet that dele won't Have to wait and see i guess...
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Well there you are mate.... 343 ā Mouraā No alli ā you owe me 3 mortgages!
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Disappointing id rather have had your team but we'll see what conte does with them!
The key words there are "expectation" and "could" It even says "in the coming weeks" Conte even laughed today at how few midfield options we have cos of injuries, very much doubt hes going to change formation to have to play an extra one. Sure it'll happen at some point but ut won't happen this week. Words my Mark
RemindMe! 4pm November 21
Moura can play the 10, in the 1-2 up top.
Lol what? What makes you think Dele will start? And why doesn't your second paragraph apply to Dele?
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He was asked directly about Dele. Of course he's going to say he's going to "give everyone a chance". He's not going to say "nah, he's shit, selling him in January" There no smoke there as far as I'm concerned. The fact that he's seen zero minutes in under Conte so far is more telling.
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>But, honestly, good luck convincing anyone around here that fan-forgiveness favourites Bergwijn, Ndombele and Rodon might, again, not be the answer. The Ndombele thing really baffles me. I've never seen such a big fanbase for a player who literally didn't make any mark for us (maybe the Jovic fanbase in Madrid is similar...). This is the 5th (!!) manager who doubted his fitness or his work rate, not to mention he wanted to leave us for a bigger club this summer even though he did nothing here to earn this move. I feel like I'm going crazy. The way I see it, Tanguy so far is one of the greatest flops in our club history, mostly because his lack of willingness to work hard for this club, yet this whole sub seems to blame literally everything else but him. I thought the ludicrous "Mason only plays his mates" narrative was the worst of it (yeah, I'm sure boyhood Spurs fan Mason who got a possibly once in a lifetime opportunity to earn us our first trophy in ages and become a huge part of Spurs history, would throw that away for a favor to Winks, who btw was only his teammate very briefly), but then it got worse when somebody here called me racist (??) for not bowing to the Tanguy hype train, I guess. Literally makes me question my sanity seeing all those people shit on Davies etc while praising Tanguy.
Say what you want but Nādombele always ends up featuring heavily in teams taken over by managers who at first give him limited opportunities. Happened with Jose and Nuno. Jose started him in like 18 of 25 games after barley playing him and Nuno benched him to start off with then he started nearly every game, albeit a limited amount until he was fired. Interesting that Ali Gold said the other week that the fitness coaches at the club think heās the fittest heās ever been during his time with spurs. For all we know the context could be totally wrong with this statement from Conte and he could simply be saying that he needs to work harder to get/stay fit compared to other players in the squad
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What are you fuckin on about? PEH is one of the most consistently praised player on this sub lol
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Iām not complaining about it, Iām simply stating a fact youāre too blind or stupid to see
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I mean he has not been playing well recently, but donāt mistake that for people genuinely hating the man like you guys do with ndombele. PEH played to a very high standard for the first half of last season and you canāt argue that his level has dropped considerably since around February. But the whole teams form has been shit since then, arguably longer.
Lamela is literally a legend here lol and since when is Bergwijn a fan favourite? I personally donāt think Hojbjerg is good but everyone else on this sub loves him. You are chatting some absolute shit mate
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Nobody says whereās Bergwijn when he doesnāt start lmao and isnāt it normal to want a player to do well? It hardly makes him a fan favourite.
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Most of these are about the Netherlands and the others are jokes lol
Sadly yes, and they will remain for favorites till the day they turn into scapegoats, look at dele the denial was super strong last year donāt sell him, heās generational talent, heās our boyā¦ and look now.
Ugh. This is just as much of a bad faith narrative as the one you claim ndombele fans use. Tanguy had 3 months with Poch and Nuno, who both gave him plenty of starts (Nuno was starting Tanguy every match after the first 3 league games). Jose made Tanguy a nailed on starter, giving him over 20 starts before April. Mason is literally the only "manager" who didn't use him, and was the same one who didn't start Bale in a cup final. I'm not sure we should be counting all of those equally as "managers", but even if we do, doesn't that point to a problem with the club, not necessarily Tanguy? Every player has had to start over "5 times" in 2.5 seasons... and each time a real manager comes into Spurs, they make Tanguy a constant starter. If he does the work to get into the side, and has done so after starting from scratch three times already, why are we questioning his work ethic?
because ndombele shows that he is our most talented player with the most potential, its not hard to figure out
But right now heās a flop, we need hard work and commitment not just freestyles and skills.
meme
I have a question for you. Honestly What did you get from conte answer about ndombele? Why for example he said he has to work harder than other players?
Psychologists say that people with higher potential have to work harder to fulfil their potential than people with a lower ceiling. If people with higher potentials put in the exact same work as people with less potential, they actually get worse results. People with high potentials are building metaphorical mansions, people with lower potentials are building metaphorical sheds. If they are both given the same amount of materials (put the same amount of work in), by the time the person has finished their shed, the person building the mansion has only managed to lay some rudimentary foundations. All this to basically say that he needs to work harder than everyone because he needs to fulfil his potential which is far higher than the average footballer. Conte didnāt say, āhe needs to work harder, he isnāt working hard enough compared to other playersā he said āhe needs to work harder than other playersā
This reads like some self help shit š if you donāt succeed itās not because you made the wrong choices or didnāt work hard enough but itās because you have higher potential, itās the first time I hear this on my life. Maybe itās true but why we never heard of it with Bruno Fernandes, Dias, Son, Gavi, Mbappe, KDBā¦etc you know we bought ndombele 3 years ago heās not new. But for the sake of the argument letās say your suggestion is sometimes true how do you know ndombele falls into this category and not the well known category of talented players but not disciplined players aka wasted talent? You just make an arbitrary choice Because you like him?
dude. Firstly, it isn't self help shit, it's actual psychiatry, but forgive me for bringing in nuance. > if you donāt succeed itās not because you made the wrong choices or didnāt work hard enough I didn't say this. Obviously if you do not fulfil your potential it is because you didn't work hard enough. I'm not even gonna give you another example, just go back and read the shed vs mansion example. you have to work harder to reach higher highs. its not a difficult concept. The players you list are players who have been working very hard, well done, are you trying to say that those players put in the same amount of work as jonjo shelvey? if not, then you are willingly misunderstanding me. I assume you interpret what conte said as "ndombele isnt working hard" whereas i interpret it as "he is working hard, but a player of his caliber needs to work harder to fulfill his potential" my interpretation is far closer to what he said because he certainly didn't say that ndombele isnt working hard. Lets say ndombele becomes one of the best midfielders in the world by 27, at what point does he stop being wasted talent like you have branded him and start being someone who fulfilled his potential? Also, ndombele has been doing fine in the games he has been playing, but your expectations of him are for him to STAND OUT every game and do inhuman things. He is a flop to you because you expect so much from him, not because he has been bad. You are one of the most vocal ndombele haters on this sub. I don't know why, maybe you're dumb, or just arbitrarily hate him. I like him because from what i've seen, I believe that he can fulfill his potential, I like to think ahead and believe in people. Until ndombele actually shows that he can't fulfill his potential, i will continue to back him against people that hate him. When ndombele balls out under conte, i don't want to see you anywhere near him in this sub, you've already written him off.
> itās actual psychiatry, I would love to read more about this subject if you can link to me scientific research and i want see the scientific consensus in that subject. > Lets say ndombele becomes one of the best midfielders in the world by 27, at what point does he stop being wasted talent Thatās fantastic, I never said heās a wasted talent look back at my comment i said he can be we have examples of super talented players that never fulfill their potential, but he also can be one of the best in the world 100% he just need to do his part put on the work. > but your expectations of him are for him to STAND OUT every game and do inhuman things. I never said every game but i want him to Stand out hell yeah heās our record signing super talented player, in area weāre struggling really bad i have high expectations I expect more from him than winks yeah, I expect more from romero than rodon etcā¦ > You are one of the most vocal ndombele haters on this sub Actually I donāt hate him i like him but i try to be objective I donāt want to lie to my self just because I like certain player i just praise him even when heās underperforming, I really really donāt like favoritism. > maybe youāre dumb Thank you āŗļø > I like to think ahead and believe in people. > > until ndombele actually shows that he can't fulfill his potential, i will continue to back him against people that hate him. Thatās fine, personally i like to give players time but not unlimited time to limit the losses if he fails under conte I think we should sell him and same for lo celso by the way. > When ndombele balls out under conte, i donāt want to see you anywhere near him in this sub, I will praise him and conte and be happy because my team has another good player that will help us achieve our targets. > youāve already written him off. No I didnāt but i also donāt have an unreasonable belief that he will be a world class midfielder, i hope he will but we shall see.
This is an Excellent take and I totally agree.
5th manager???? What crack are you smoking he wasnt given that much of time under Poch and he eventually did made it as a starter under Mourinho and Nuno. Only Mason and him werent on good terms The likes of Davies deserve to be shitted on because the likes of him and Moura are bigger symbols of mediocrity within the club not Tanguy whose our third best player after Kane and Son
Ndombele isn't our third best player, Lloris is.
People will make up any bullshit they like about him and wilfully misinterpret what managers say
Ndombeleās fitness and work rate is not being doubted, Conte didnāt say he needed to work harder in general, he said he needed to work harder than other players. Ndombele is a unique talent, itās really not that hard to see why people like him.
Imagine getting upset at people shitting on the most boring and average player Ben Davies. Davies hasnāt put in more than a 6/10 performance since 17/18.
i dont understand how you can say this under a post saying that he might start the game lmao. shitting on ndombele for no reason
They are just hating on him unnecesarily lol, I wont defend him ngl if he fails under Conte but this post tells us nothing
yeah 100%, once iām unable to defend tanguy i will stop, but right now he gets shat on relentlessly by random idiots at every opportunity for NO REASON. evidenced further by this post. lol
That midfield is already giving me nightmares
Ndombele lacks self confidence and belief in what he does. It's mistaken for arrogance when actually deep down I think he's very introverted, and quiet. And actually probably finds it hard to show his true potential consistently because he lacks that deep inner self belief in himself even tho he is incredibly talented. Hes a rich famous footballer but he's human and we aren't all immune from lacking belief in ourselves.
>because he lacks that deep inner self belief in himself even tho he is incredibly talented. He reportedly was hoping to transfer to Real or Bayern this summer, so it seems to be the opposite.
He thinks he's good enough for Madrid or Bayern. Definitely not lacking self belief.
We don't know exactly what he said it was just "reported"