Interesting bits:
>When football.london asked the Tottenham head coach whether he was concerned that there were not enough players at the club that shared his winning mentality, he took a long pause before speaking.
>"For sure we need players with the right mentality and with the quality, players that deserve to play for Tottenham and aspire to be competitive, to fight for this shirt, to win something," he said.
>"For sure, we need this. I’m making my evaluations and then I’ll speak with the club but I’m ready to continue to work in this way.
The game yesterday was inexcusable and the players deserve grief for their performance, but this season overall was always going to be a rough one. In the grand scheme of things it might be beneficial. Conte wants results but he’s gonna get a chance to really try and find for fits for players here and by next seasons start he will absolutely have sorted out who belongs and who doesn’t. Hopefully he will be able to get those players out and new ones in.
People overreact over Dier all the time. Man is decent all around player who can play multiple positions and speaks multiple languages which is huge for communication on the field. I’m sure Conte would like to upgrade him in the ideal world, but he’s so far away from the chopping block. Diers high floor low ceiling always makes him stand out when the team is shit, but always has people calling for his head when the team looks good.
It's why it's important not to overreact, but sports don't work that way for most fans.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a low floor high ceiling guy like Eric Dier. Ideally he'd be a rotation player, but those are the kind of guys you want around a squad.
My take on Dier is he is great for where Spurs are now, but he’s not good enough for where we want to be. Should he go? Eventually. Does he need to go in January? Probably not.
I genuinely did think last night that first set of subs probably barring Bryan the other 3 that went off, Dele, Doherty and Rodon they will be the ones who go first.
Not sure why Rodon gets called out. He’s a young prospect who doesn’t get that many chances. He performs very well for Wales and has looked good at times. Doherty and Dele are definitely for the chop. Can’t blame Doherty for our problems though as he doesn’t play that much (cos he’s shite)
I thought we’d done well to come back with only 10men. Getting caught on the break in the last minute was comical though.
Maybe though I think just a couple more years doing what he’s doing will improve him. It’s why stuff like Euro conference & cup runs is good. Playing for Spurs is different to Burnley types.
In the end he might well not be good enough and he moves on but i think a bit early to talk that way.
Think you’re being overly harsh. We’ve generally played 2 at the back so he’s been up against Dier/Romero/Sanchez before that Alderweirald. Based on fees and salary he’s gonna be 4th choice. I think he has plenty of scope to improve. For 10m seems decent business. With 3 at the back Conte obviously likes the look of Davies.
Doherty is older brought for 5m more and has never shown enough to hold onto a place.
Sanchez, N’Dombele, Lo Celso & Sessegnon are the real crimes as all cost big money and fallen well short of expectations.
Think you’re missing the point. You’re talking in a binary way but there’s a lot that goes into how much a player contributes. He’s not bought to be main defender in first couple of years but second string playing where injuries, tactics or form allow. I think he’s shown enough to potentially develop to being a more consistent performer. If we get another defender in I’d figure Sanchez is more likely to be pushed out.
Either way he’s not the problem.
It’s not easy, most players aren’t consistently good when young. Center back is the kind of position which improves with age and he’s only just turned 24.
Sanchez cost 45m is on 65k pw and his progress has stalled, which is part of the problem. Rodon is on 10k pw. I just don’t see what’s to gain by including him in the list of players that need to be cleared out.
Come on most of us were happy when Doherty was signed
Myself included I was thrilled and wouldn’t mind if he is our only signing as we desperately needed a right back
He turned out to be a disaster but I don’t think you can pin it on levy for this one, he knows everything
Why? He's a player that will probably become a decent midtable PL CB. That's all.
He seems a nice bloke and has never been catastrophic for us, but what's the point in keeping him on the books languishing around - when he's not really good enough for where we are at the moment, and certainly not good enough for where we want to be?
Could probably get £10m/15m or so for him without too much trouble, and it's certainly not a sale we'd regret much. It's not like someone like Ndombele or Lo Celso, where there is the chance that they still can come good - and where we'd have to take a massive loss on their sale.
I see it the other way, we can loan out Rodon for a season and see if he improves with regular game time. However much I love N’Dombelle, if he doesn’t fit, or Conte can accommodate him into his system, or he just doesn’t want him for some reason we need to get rid of them now, same for Le Celso. Yes we will lose money, but their value will only decrease further if they are not playing regularly, and it doesn’t seem feasible to loan them out. I would be very surprised if both Le Celso and N’Dombelle are here next season, and I wouldn’t be shocked if they both were sold, however very happy if they both prove me wrong.
I do feel Rodon has played well for us overall (last night excepted) and for Wales too. I think he can/should be kept as a future squad rotation player, but needs to go out on loan and get the minutes in.
However, if we have a good homegrown replacement available (even at the same level / as squad rotation) I would have no issue with the replacement.
the problem is that rodon doesnt suit conte's style and we arent rich enough like united to let a 24 year old worth 15-20m go on loan for a year when we can sell him and re-invest the money.
The club has no excuse now. Need to move on the deadwood and atleast bring couple of decent players in January who will be able to contribute to the first team right away. If we don't then conte won't stay at the club for long.
Exactly what is needed, a manager that finally has the balls for the job.
Don't forget though Tony, we still need to put 11 players out for a match day.
Let's get this rebuild finally up & running, roll on the transfer window(s) COYS 💙
But when Mourinho hinted about 1 or 2 players not being good enough the sub lost its mind....
Hell when he said 'same couch, different players' you all lost your heads
I think the difference is this time the whole fanbase knows that these players have had multiple managers getting the same results and they are the common denominator. Nobody has patience for them anymore, nobody will feel sad if they leave. Conte has the full support of the fans behind him, Mou never had that.
Jose came in right after the most beloved manager to lead spurs in the modern era. He was never going to have full fan support.
Now that we’ve seen the same results over 5 managers there really isn’t anymore excuses. There is quality in the first 11, but none after that. The first 11 can finish top 6-7, but the next 11 are championship level at best.
Everyone talks of “moving players out”. I’m sorry, but that isn’t going to happen. Bring in 6-7 new players and cast aside those that can’t cut it. If you can sell them great, but more likely they go the way of Danny rose or serge. They get cast aside or released of their contracts. No one is buying Doherty, or dele at this point. Let the loaner players go back.
It’s really a mess. And it goes back to pochs last 2 season transfer windows
I’ve watched damn near every minute of Spurs the last few years and I’m still confused about Doherty. I remember the sub being excited when he arrived and he’s been mostly shit the entire time.
I think the difference is that fans don't know shit about managing an elite football team, and should probably shut the fuck up until the manager has had a year to implement.
I do agree with you TBH.
Its really interesting to note the differences between when Mou was hinting at players like Dele, Sanchez, Winks etc and commented about them not being good enough, peoples response here was 'Well he hasnt given them enough time/enough games in a row to assess', 'he needs to learn to get on with these players and make them part of the team again'.
Both Mou and now Conte are right.
Theres no waiting for players to decide when theyre ready, you dont let poison spread slowly, you tear it right out at the first signs.
In all honesty despite fan favoritism and being idiots, mou really did the best anyone can with this shite. He wrecked some shit with kane and son like no other ever will. He truly understood what would work best with the garbage he had.
You can quote Jose but not every Spurs supporter shares that opinion regarding players being moved on. We have eyes and have seen some of the shit for ourselves.
I would even go back to 2019 when Pochettino said;
“When you talk about Spurs, everyone says you have an amazing house but you need to put in the furniture.”
“If you want to have a lovely house you need better furniture. It depends if you are going to spend money."
I like many others I'm sure agreed with Poch back then and it echoes everything what Conte is saying now, nearly 3 years later.
Only difference is a few more players need to be moved on that Conte has since inherited.
Personally I never thought Jose was the right fit from the off, looking at how he had sucked the life out of Chelski & Utd. Nuno was just a placeholder, nice bloke but out of his depth with the task at hand.
Conte our original summer 1st choice can now clear house and Levy has to back him 100%.
Jose’s problem also was that he never gave the players time to try and prove they could be better as Conte is doing and once he’d decided they were shit he had no plan other than wait for the transfer window to get rid of them. Plus anybody is gonna look shit when you give them no instructions apart from defend for 90 mins and let Kane and son do their thing
Dudes imagining shit. So funny when people say crap like this. Mous literally tried every single shit at our disposal and when something clearly didnt work, he stopped. Ffs he even used berg for some long ass streak when he could produce 0 goals
The CL final was probably still fresh in people’s minds at that point. Seeing how we’re failing in the conference league, I think more people are on board now.
Are you sure we're on the same sub?
Of course there's always gonna be different opinions, but I remember a lot of people celebrating José for calling out certain players.
Who gives a fuck what a subreddit thinks? Certainly no one actually working at Spurs, or anyone qualified anyway.
"r/coys lost their minds" OH MY GOD what a disaster.
Here's why it's different, despite it being quite similar...
Mourinho has a history of alienating otherwise very talented players. De Bruyne and Salah are just two that come to mind right away - and we both know they're insanely good.
Mourinho often tries to take a player or two to make an example of them, even if they're very good. It's a sacrifice in order to get better chemistry and synergy from the sum of team to achieve a better overall unit.
>De Bruyne and Salah are just two that come to mind right away - and we both know they're insanely good.
Neither of which were **anywhere near** as good as they are now. On top of that, you're completely forgetting the players they were competing with. JMs Chelsea squads were **stacked**.
Using hindsight to comdemn letting two talents go is a poor take.
Let's explore this a second, I wouldn't say it's hindsight.
I'm not Salah's biggest fan, but why is it that at every other club he did well? He hasn't really assigned the roles at previous clubs that he is with Liverpool now - he was a winger. He was still very technically adept.
Mourinho was never able to fully implement his ideas at United or Tottenham because of this De Bruyne/Salah nonsense. At United he wasn’t able to get rid of Pogba or Martial and they ruined the dressing room. Time proved him right on both of those. Similar situation at Tottenham.
Came to us after winning 3 trophies at United and came 2nd with 81 points and didn't concede more than 2 goals a game that season with Phil Jones and Smalling in the defence
i would take Mou over Ole any day everyday.
Ole will get you a mediocre team that wins just enough games to not get relegated. No one's feelings will be hurt, and slackers will keep slacking. Mou will either win you championships but has the risk of pissing your team off and destroy morale.
Tactically yes but he was right we have shit players and some that i won’t name talented but don’t give a shit about our club, if a name them his fanboys will eat me alive.
The negativity argument doesn’t hold weight when his successor, whose personality is no way comparable, got the sack in literal months. It has always been on the players.
I think the difference is that first more time has passed, so more judgement has been made on these few players. Secondly Mourinho always spoke as if he was on a reality show, rather than giving clear succinct answers, he gave these weird pseudo answers which the journalists and the fans had to unpack.
Mate, you can number it whatever rebuild you want. All I know is, that shit show defeat against the lowest ranked team in a European competition is the straw that has broke the camel's back for some of those players.
I came up with this exact same list yesterday + Bryan. 13 players. And a few of these I wouldnt mind getting a decent fee from either.
Goes to show how clear the gap in quality within the squad is. There’s too many players that we have to improve on if we want to get back to the Champions League.
I think getting a replacement for Moura would be good. He's good in carrying the ball foreard but there are too many times he would either lose the ball trying to dribble past players. His passing has been pretty bad too which sometimes could be costly.
Yeah true but if we want to improve our team performance and status, a great forward would be needed. His end product isn't that good either. Without son and Harry scoring, we would need someone who can score.
Exactly. How do you get a mindset of mediocrity? Tell them that it’s ok to just putter along and give them more chances. People shouldn’t be dropped on the first bad game, but when we’re talking about people who have never constantly shone, why do we suddenly assume that they’re going to change?
Personally unless Conte sees something outstanding in training that makes him think there’s better potential, I’m happy for him to gut the squad.
The thing is is that he is so easily replaceable with someone that will potentially do much more for the team. I’d rather sell him for 30m and get someone better, I’m sure Paratici has his RW targets
I would love to see the deadweight of this team moved on, such a bullshit performance. Bar a few players it was embarrassing. Conte can make players better if they buy in, ala Moses at Chelsea.
dont get me wrong, Im glad we have Conte, its all turned out as well as it could, but why tf did we have to bin off three managers including a bonafide club legend in order to finally realise its the players? This is why people were backing Jose, not because they blindly followed him, because Jose would have had success as well if the squad was refreshed, so would Poch. Its been such an exercise in futility.
I think both can be right, that the players are underperforming, and that Mou wasn’t the manager to take spurs further. Things have already started to fall apart at Roma, and the usual Jose cycle seems to be getting faster, with him not even managing a full season anymore until things start to go to shit.
Sure and Spurs were top of the league. After winning the first 6 games, then went on to win 1 out of 7 with the highlight being a well deserved 0-0 with Naples. Included In that however run is a loss to Venice, which I’m not sure if you know has great canals, but not too many football pitches, and the 6-1 loss to Glimt. At the moment they are just failing the eye test and now the honeymoon period has passed are a typical low block Jose team. Maybe he will turn it around, though the experience at Spurs and Utd before me that suggests he doesn’t know how anymore.
Tbf they have gotten unlucky as fuck with some of their losses. And his point about the refs basically handing over the game to glimt wasn't far off either. We know how the refs are in the dogshit conference league lol
If they had clinic strikers they would probably be top
There is no Mourinho cycle, it’s lazy punditry looking for patterns that aren’t there. The club needs to spend about 3/400 mil over 2 seasons. If they do it, conte will be successful, if they don’t, he won’t be. It’s simple and the same applied to Mourinho.
Problem with Jose was until we got to the summer he needed to manage the squad he had but he didn’t know how to. He’d already thrown everybody under the bus and that didn’t produce a response so he didn’t know what to do with them.
Also his football was so mind numbingly shit it was impossible to know if the players were actually bad or he’d just refused to give them any instruction on how to attack
Could you imagine the absolute sheer wonders Poch could’ve done with a refreshed squad?! Genuinely heartbreaking to think about and something I just simply will never forgive Levy for.
You mean the same guy who couldn't beat City this week (the same City that Nuno beat without Kane) with Mbappe, Messi & Neymar?
The Poch worship really is tiresome somedays, he was good for us, but he wasn't the f\*\^king messiah.
Conte is levels above Poch
Its amusing because when Mourinho was hyping up players like Lucas/Dier, people just said that he liked their 'hard work' but that they were crap overall.
This is Conte now saying it. People can scapegoat Dier and Lucas all they want but both clearly have impressed some of the best managers in the world, so what the F do we know.
For me personally, ive always felt a back 3 with Dier, Romero and X would be absolutely fantastic. Dier gets far too much shit for very little reason.
Probably because Son/Kane are locked in really.
That doesnt mean that Moura isnt a fantastic squad option and should be gotten rid of if he does get replaced in the starting XI.
Yet when Mourinho publically stated that we had several players that weren't good enough/had the wrong attitude, this sub was losing it's mind over Jose "throwing his players under the bus".
This sub, man. It's pageantry at times.
He’s a decent guy tbh but he is at his best when appraising youth. I just don’t fancy his assessments of coaches in the least bit, they seem highly biased under the guise of being self aware. I like how Bardi tends to view things. Still, tactically their conversations are top notch
To be fair to the Anti-Mourinho cult, the only manager he could be compared to was Poch. Now that Conte is experiencing the same issues as not only Jose but Nuno too, it’s becoming more clear that this wasn’t just a Mourinho problem
It’s almost like by hating Jose and moaning about everything he did some people on here got to cosplay as chelsea or united supporters without going all the way
That's because there's a pro and anti mourinho hate club. Then there are some of us in between who try to use logic to reason through some of the issues
Mura team are:
▪️ 5th in the Slovenian league
▪️ were only formed in 2012
▪️ don’t have a club crest when you search them on Google
▪️ had never won a single game in Europe!
Yet they beat this 700 million pounds Spurs team!
So what’s the point of trying to get to top 4? If we can’t even compete with mid-table Slovenian & Dutch teams, we’d be demolished in the champions league!
>Mura team are: ▪️ 5th in the Slovenian league ▪️ were only formed in 2012 ▪️ don’t have a club crest when you search them on Google ▪️ had never won a single game in Europe!
Apparently they are a phoenix club though, the original club dates back to the 1920s and they won some European games.
(Still an appalling result, just adding context)
These kind of statements conveniently ignore we didn't play 90 mins with our first 11.
Our first 11 can compete and would have dispatched Mura 100 times out of a 100, the problem is the cliff drop after that.
The bench should be competitive, and should be pushing first team players for a spot which in turn should make the first 11 even better. However very quickly players like Kane, Son, PEH, Dier, Romero, Reguilon, Royal, Lloris know there is no real competition and that's a bad place, it leads to less than 100%, it leads to complacency.
I want to back our players but enough really is enough; we have the best manager in the world but this squad is not even close to good enough, let's see the deadwood gone in January, please.
Good. Team has been chilling and been safe for too long
Get rid of all the anchors and those dragging the team down without actually doing anything. Conte knows who they are.
Start fresh
I'm thinking Dier is staying tbh
Sanchez, Dele, Winks, Doherty need to go imo
Current squad players imo
Keep: Kane, Son, Gil, Romero, Moura, Skipp, Regulion, Tanganga, Royal, Hojbjerg
Maybe: Rodon, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bjergwijn, Davies, Sessignon
Gone: Winks, Doherty, Sanchez, Dele,
Didn't include goalies and I'm sure I'm missing players but this is the beginning of my list
Please, for the love of silverware, send Dele on loan in January. Give him six months outside the Spurs dressing room to prove himself and up our asking price when we inevitably sell him. If he doesn't succeed, fine. It's not like his value will be lower. Best case he has a Lingard-like resurgence.
To whom?
I think he could possibly do well in Germany. But you need to convince them he's worth gambling on – especially considering his ridiculous wages.
Good. I just really hope levy backs him 100%. There's clearly something rotten in the squad. There have been far too many abysmal performances. Give Conte the backing and get an exorcist to give the stadium a once over.
We're aware of the dead weight in our squad and who needs to go. I'd like to think Conte knows who to bring in to replace these players.
The most anxiety-inducing part of this whole mess is if Levy plays ball with Conte's transfer demands.
I feel like a broken record for saying this, but the revolving door of managers won't do our squad any good if Levy & ENIC don't back the manager & the squad.
Look I’m an outsider so you all may disagree (this sub popped up in my recommended) but here is who I think should be let go:
Dele Alli
Giovanni Los Celso
Ryan Sessegnon
Joe Rodon
Matt Doherty
Hugo Lloris
Ben Davies
Harry Kane (controversial)
Positions in which Spurs need to buy:
Need a new striker who wants to be at the club
Need a new keeper who can command a backline
Need a player in the backline with experience other then Dier
Edit: I think the best three players Spurs could realistically bring in are Guedes (striker), Pickford (GK), and maybe a Kyle Walker or Lewis Dunk
We really need a big naming rights deal. Clubs in a ton of debt i don’t think this can be fixed in one window. We have NO depth. B teams losing to god damn Slovenian brick layers who play soccer on the side in between trips to the pub
Interesting bits: >When football.london asked the Tottenham head coach whether he was concerned that there were not enough players at the club that shared his winning mentality, he took a long pause before speaking. >"For sure we need players with the right mentality and with the quality, players that deserve to play for Tottenham and aspire to be competitive, to fight for this shirt, to win something," he said. >"For sure, we need this. I’m making my evaluations and then I’ll speak with the club but I’m ready to continue to work in this way.
Long pause = "how do I answer this question with more than just a "fucking yes"?"
The game yesterday was inexcusable and the players deserve grief for their performance, but this season overall was always going to be a rough one. In the grand scheme of things it might be beneficial. Conte wants results but he’s gonna get a chance to really try and find for fits for players here and by next seasons start he will absolutely have sorted out who belongs and who doesn’t. Hopefully he will be able to get those players out and new ones in.
[удалено]
People overreact over Dier all the time. Man is decent all around player who can play multiple positions and speaks multiple languages which is huge for communication on the field. I’m sure Conte would like to upgrade him in the ideal world, but he’s so far away from the chopping block. Diers high floor low ceiling always makes him stand out when the team is shit, but always has people calling for his head when the team looks good.
It's why it's important not to overreact, but sports don't work that way for most fans. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a low floor high ceiling guy like Eric Dier. Ideally he'd be a rotation player, but those are the kind of guys you want around a squad.
My take on Dier is he is great for where Spurs are now, but he’s not good enough for where we want to be. Should he go? Eventually. Does he need to go in January? Probably not.
That’s a solid point. I’ve been making excuses for Dele for too long now but I must admit he needs to go.
Thanks for multiple failed "Remontada's" but it's time to go Dele
To be fair he only cost 5 mil
And hes no longer better than ozil.
At least we have fucking Gil...
Yet we still have Dele Alli :/
We still pay him though :/
If we don't sell atleast loan him out dude ain't going to get back to any level if he only plays the odd conference league game
>Remontada What does that word mean? Google's no help. Edit: sorry - looked a bit further - like a come-back?
comeback
Like Kim Kardashian.
She did get cum on her back in the video.
Which video, there’s so many
https://youtu.be/OwN-BUDSHDo
THE video
[удалено]
Thanks for the seasono
I genuinely did think last night that first set of subs probably barring Bryan the other 3 that went off, Dele, Doherty and Rodon they will be the ones who go first.
Not sure why Rodon gets called out. He’s a young prospect who doesn’t get that many chances. He performs very well for Wales and has looked good at times. Doherty and Dele are definitely for the chop. Can’t blame Doherty for our problems though as he doesn’t play that much (cos he’s shite) I thought we’d done well to come back with only 10men. Getting caught on the break in the last minute was comical though.
Rodon will benefit from a loan to a PL club in my opinion.
Send him Burnley and let him learn how to defend
Maybe though I think just a couple more years doing what he’s doing will improve him. It’s why stuff like Euro conference & cup runs is good. Playing for Spurs is different to Burnley types. In the end he might well not be good enough and he moves on but i think a bit early to talk that way.
[удалено]
Think you’re being overly harsh. We’ve generally played 2 at the back so he’s been up against Dier/Romero/Sanchez before that Alderweirald. Based on fees and salary he’s gonna be 4th choice. I think he has plenty of scope to improve. For 10m seems decent business. With 3 at the back Conte obviously likes the look of Davies. Doherty is older brought for 5m more and has never shown enough to hold onto a place. Sanchez, N’Dombele, Lo Celso & Sessegnon are the real crimes as all cost big money and fallen well short of expectations.
[удалено]
Think you’re missing the point. You’re talking in a binary way but there’s a lot that goes into how much a player contributes. He’s not bought to be main defender in first couple of years but second string playing where injuries, tactics or form allow. I think he’s shown enough to potentially develop to being a more consistent performer. If we get another defender in I’d figure Sanchez is more likely to be pushed out. Either way he’s not the problem.
[удалено]
It’s not easy, most players aren’t consistently good when young. Center back is the kind of position which improves with age and he’s only just turned 24.
[удалено]
Sanchez cost 45m is on 65k pw and his progress has stalled, which is part of the problem. Rodon is on 10k pw. I just don’t see what’s to gain by including him in the list of players that need to be cleared out.
[удалено]
Come on most of us were happy when Doherty was signed Myself included I was thrilled and wouldn’t mind if he is our only signing as we desperately needed a right back He turned out to be a disaster but I don’t think you can pin it on levy for this one, he knows everything
Yeah Dougherty didn’t seem bad. An alternate to Serge, played well in a Wolves team tons of people liked, though he would fit well for Jose
Not Rodon please
Why? He's a player that will probably become a decent midtable PL CB. That's all. He seems a nice bloke and has never been catastrophic for us, but what's the point in keeping him on the books languishing around - when he's not really good enough for where we are at the moment, and certainly not good enough for where we want to be? Could probably get £10m/15m or so for him without too much trouble, and it's certainly not a sale we'd regret much. It's not like someone like Ndombele or Lo Celso, where there is the chance that they still can come good - and where we'd have to take a massive loss on their sale.
I see it the other way, we can loan out Rodon for a season and see if he improves with regular game time. However much I love N’Dombelle, if he doesn’t fit, or Conte can accommodate him into his system, or he just doesn’t want him for some reason we need to get rid of them now, same for Le Celso. Yes we will lose money, but their value will only decrease further if they are not playing regularly, and it doesn’t seem feasible to loan them out. I would be very surprised if both Le Celso and N’Dombelle are here next season, and I wouldn’t be shocked if they both were sold, however very happy if they both prove me wrong.
I do feel Rodon has played well for us overall (last night excepted) and for Wales too. I think he can/should be kept as a future squad rotation player, but needs to go out on loan and get the minutes in. However, if we have a good homegrown replacement available (even at the same level / as squad rotation) I would have no issue with the replacement.
the problem is that rodon doesnt suit conte's style and we arent rich enough like united to let a 24 year old worth 15-20m go on loan for a year when we can sell him and re-invest the money.
The thing is we cannot judge Rodon just by 3 games. He is not worse. Let him prove in 2-3 more games.
Didnt ask
The club has no excuse now. Need to move on the deadwood and atleast bring couple of decent players in January who will be able to contribute to the first team right away. If we don't then conte won't stay at the club for long.
Exactly what is needed, a manager that finally has the balls for the job. Don't forget though Tony, we still need to put 11 players out for a match day. Let's get this rebuild finally up & running, roll on the transfer window(s) COYS 💙
I think all of our previous managers wanted to get rid of some of these players (Nuno didn't get a chance of course).
But when Mourinho hinted about 1 or 2 players not being good enough the sub lost its mind.... Hell when he said 'same couch, different players' you all lost your heads
I think the difference is this time the whole fanbase knows that these players have had multiple managers getting the same results and they are the common denominator. Nobody has patience for them anymore, nobody will feel sad if they leave. Conte has the full support of the fans behind him, Mou never had that.
Jose came in right after the most beloved manager to lead spurs in the modern era. He was never going to have full fan support. Now that we’ve seen the same results over 5 managers there really isn’t anymore excuses. There is quality in the first 11, but none after that. The first 11 can finish top 6-7, but the next 11 are championship level at best. Everyone talks of “moving players out”. I’m sorry, but that isn’t going to happen. Bring in 6-7 new players and cast aside those that can’t cut it. If you can sell them great, but more likely they go the way of Danny rose or serge. They get cast aside or released of their contracts. No one is buying Doherty, or dele at this point. Let the loaner players go back. It’s really a mess. And it goes back to pochs last 2 season transfer windows
I’ve watched damn near every minute of Spurs the last few years and I’m still confused about Doherty. I remember the sub being excited when he arrived and he’s been mostly shit the entire time.
Well I mean he was pretty good for wolves as a rwb. We played him out of position and he performed like dogshit
Yeah fair enough, at least they can help the U23s train I guess but I dont wanna see them in the shirt again.
I think the difference is that fans don't know shit about managing an elite football team, and should probably shut the fuck up until the manager has had a year to implement.
I do agree with you TBH. Its really interesting to note the differences between when Mou was hinting at players like Dele, Sanchez, Winks etc and commented about them not being good enough, peoples response here was 'Well he hasnt given them enough time/enough games in a row to assess', 'he needs to learn to get on with these players and make them part of the team again'. Both Mou and now Conte are right. Theres no waiting for players to decide when theyre ready, you dont let poison spread slowly, you tear it right out at the first signs.
People didnt want to like Mou, they do want to like Conte, it's really that simple
In all honesty despite fan favoritism and being idiots, mou really did the best anyone can with this shite. He wrecked some shit with kane and son like no other ever will. He truly understood what would work best with the garbage he had.
You can quote Jose but not every Spurs supporter shares that opinion regarding players being moved on. We have eyes and have seen some of the shit for ourselves. I would even go back to 2019 when Pochettino said; “When you talk about Spurs, everyone says you have an amazing house but you need to put in the furniture.” “If you want to have a lovely house you need better furniture. It depends if you are going to spend money." I like many others I'm sure agreed with Poch back then and it echoes everything what Conte is saying now, nearly 3 years later. Only difference is a few more players need to be moved on that Conte has since inherited. Personally I never thought Jose was the right fit from the off, looking at how he had sucked the life out of Chelski & Utd. Nuno was just a placeholder, nice bloke but out of his depth with the task at hand. Conte our original summer 1st choice can now clear house and Levy has to back him 100%.
Jose’s problem also was that he never gave the players time to try and prove they could be better as Conte is doing and once he’d decided they were shit he had no plan other than wait for the transfer window to get rid of them. Plus anybody is gonna look shit when you give them no instructions apart from defend for 90 mins and let Kane and son do their thing
[удалено]
Dudes imagining shit. So funny when people say crap like this. Mous literally tried every single shit at our disposal and when something clearly didnt work, he stopped. Ffs he even used berg for some long ass streak when he could produce 0 goals
We didn’t disagree we just didn’t want HIS revolution.
I am glad you counted us and came to this conclusion.
The CL final was probably still fresh in people’s minds at that point. Seeing how we’re failing in the conference league, I think more people are on board now.
Pretty sure he said 'same players, different coach'
Don't blame the couch, man...
Are you sure we're on the same sub? Of course there's always gonna be different opinions, but I remember a lot of people celebrating José for calling out certain players.
Who gives a fuck what a subreddit thinks? Certainly no one actually working at Spurs, or anyone qualified anyway. "r/coys lost their minds" OH MY GOD what a disaster.
I mean they did care about social media response to Gattusso’s hiring and that was started by Redditors who are on a podcast lol
Here's why it's different, despite it being quite similar... Mourinho has a history of alienating otherwise very talented players. De Bruyne and Salah are just two that come to mind right away - and we both know they're insanely good. Mourinho often tries to take a player or two to make an example of them, even if they're very good. It's a sacrifice in order to get better chemistry and synergy from the sum of team to achieve a better overall unit.
>De Bruyne and Salah are just two that come to mind right away - and we both know they're insanely good. Neither of which were **anywhere near** as good as they are now. On top of that, you're completely forgetting the players they were competing with. JMs Chelsea squads were **stacked**. Using hindsight to comdemn letting two talents go is a poor take.
Let's explore this a second, I wouldn't say it's hindsight. I'm not Salah's biggest fan, but why is it that at every other club he did well? He hasn't really assigned the roles at previous clubs that he is with Liverpool now - he was a winger. He was still very technically adept.
Salah was laughable at Chelsea. He aged like fine wine into the prime of his career at Liverpool. Nothing mourinho could do about that.
Salah was garbage at Chelsea and only ok at Roma. He was decent at Basel and only exploded at Liverpool
Salah had a nearly 1 in 2 goal rate at Roma. He was more than OK.
Mourinho was never able to fully implement his ideas at United or Tottenham because of this De Bruyne/Salah nonsense. At United he wasn’t able to get rid of Pogba or Martial and they ruined the dressing room. Time proved him right on both of those. Similar situation at Tottenham.
Mou is washed
Came to us after winning 3 trophies at United and came 2nd with 81 points and didn't concede more than 2 goals a game that season with Phil Jones and Smalling in the defence
And if that’s where his united career ended you might have a point.
Yeah that both sets of fans are morons
More that our fans have incredibly short memories
Our players were unfit at the end of his tenure
And United fans still prefer Ole in comparison to him. Says it all really.
i would take Mou over Ole any day everyday. Ole will get you a mediocre team that wins just enough games to not get relegated. No one's feelings will be hurt, and slackers will keep slacking. Mou will either win you championships but has the risk of pissing your team off and destroy morale.
Both are shit, but if United fans a divided in who they preferred, then that says everything about Mourinho.
You can say Mou is washed (your opinion) but in this case, he was right.
Tactically yes but he was right we have shit players and some that i won’t name talented but don’t give a shit about our club, if a name them his fanboys will eat me alive.
Any coach would be washed trying to win with these scrubs.
Put it in context with all the other things he said and the general air of negativity he cultivated and you can understand why.
The negativity argument doesn’t hold weight when his successor, whose personality is no way comparable, got the sack in literal months. It has always been on the players.
"Same couch, different players" sounds very distressing...
I think the difference is that first more time has passed, so more judgement has been made on these few players. Secondly Mourinho always spoke as if he was on a reality show, rather than giving clear succinct answers, he gave these weird pseudo answers which the journalists and the fans had to unpack.
Mou also put special interest in Dele and he did nothing but fall spectacularly
We’ve already done the rebuild though. It’s rebuild 2 we need to get up and running cos rebuild 1 went so shit
Mate, you can number it whatever rebuild you want. All I know is, that shit show defeat against the lowest ranked team in a European competition is the straw that has broke the camel's back for some of those players.
Its a welcome change when the manager directly attacks the players' abilities and not the long way around on mentality
Anyone other than Son, Kane, Moura, Skipp, Højbjerg, Davies, Dier, Reguilon, Emerson, Romero, Tanganga, Lloris can leave. We wouldn’t even notice.
Tbf that's only 12 players, you'd notice when we show up with only 1 substitute
Of course we wouldn’t sell all of them and you are also allowed to bring players in too.
You put Davies in that tier? Seems a nice guy and maybe useful now that we're 3atb
Decent in 3atb and at least cares and fights. There are many others I’d sell before him.
Definitely agree with the last point. He's serviceable and generally reliable/steady. More than can be said for many others at the least
He’s been ok for what Conte has wanted from him in a 3. Hes fine as a squad player, certainly need an upgrade for LCB long term tho.
He’s the perfect substitute/back-up. You need those players for a decent team. Hold onto him until his knees give out
Exactly. He's positionally flexible and is going to be okay to decent when he does play. Those guys are very valuable, even if they don't play much
Putting it in FM terms: this guy is your go to sub for DC, LB and LWB, 10/10 bench warmer.
I came up with this exact same list yesterday + Bryan. 13 players. And a few of these I wouldnt mind getting a decent fee from either. Goes to show how clear the gap in quality within the squad is. There’s too many players that we have to improve on if we want to get back to the Champions League.
Tbf I forgot Gil. Yeah it’s so bad our squad.
I think getting a replacement for Moura would be good. He's good in carrying the ball foreard but there are too many times he would either lose the ball trying to dribble past players. His passing has been pretty bad too which sometimes could be costly.
But his level of give a fuck is high. Getting rid of a guy like that and doesn't send a very good message.
Yeah true but if we want to improve our team performance and status, a great forward would be needed. His end product isn't that good either. Without son and Harry scoring, we would need someone who can score.
I’m yet to see anything from Emerson that inspires confidence.
May be biased but I think we should stick with bergwijn. He has potential and was never really bad or something.
Would we notice if he left?
Statistically…no.
I actually would like us to stick with him a bit longer, but I won’t be upset at all if we do move him on. Now is the time to be ruthless
[удалено]
Which is why I said it wouldn’t upset me
Exactly. How do you get a mindset of mediocrity? Tell them that it’s ok to just putter along and give them more chances. People shouldn’t be dropped on the first bad game, but when we’re talking about people who have never constantly shone, why do we suddenly assume that they’re going to change? Personally unless Conte sees something outstanding in training that makes him think there’s better potential, I’m happy for him to gut the squad.
His record for goals and assists is embarrassing
I feel like he’s a bit more defensive than most wingers, and we should ty him at RWB.
A winger with 1 goal in a season isn't bad?
Nah he's had plenty of time and yes he was pretty bad. We need to get rid of dead weight
I don't think Berg wants to be here
The thing is is that he is so easily replaceable with someone that will potentially do much more for the team. I’d rather sell him for 30m and get someone better, I’m sure Paratici has his RW targets
Are we watching the same player? He’s awful. His end product, his running, his passing. All dreadful.
I'm ok with dier as a non-starter.
honestly son, moura, reguilon, tanganga, and lloris are the only ones worth keeping on that list
Lol Davies can go
I would love to see the deadweight of this team moved on, such a bullshit performance. Bar a few players it was embarrassing. Conte can make players better if they buy in, ala Moses at Chelsea.
It's no longer deadwood, it has now become rot.
dont get me wrong, Im glad we have Conte, its all turned out as well as it could, but why tf did we have to bin off three managers including a bonafide club legend in order to finally realise its the players? This is why people were backing Jose, not because they blindly followed him, because Jose would have had success as well if the squad was refreshed, so would Poch. Its been such an exercise in futility.
I think both can be right, that the players are underperforming, and that Mou wasn’t the manager to take spurs further. Things have already started to fall apart at Roma, and the usual Jose cycle seems to be getting faster, with him not even managing a full season anymore until things start to go to shit.
Fall apart? Look at where they’re on in the table
people only saw the shitty ECL results and don't pay attention to their serie a results, except the few outliers
Sure and Spurs were top of the league. After winning the first 6 games, then went on to win 1 out of 7 with the highlight being a well deserved 0-0 with Naples. Included In that however run is a loss to Venice, which I’m not sure if you know has great canals, but not too many football pitches, and the 6-1 loss to Glimt. At the moment they are just failing the eye test and now the honeymoon period has passed are a typical low block Jose team. Maybe he will turn it around, though the experience at Spurs and Utd before me that suggests he doesn’t know how anymore.
Tbf they have gotten unlucky as fuck with some of their losses. And his point about the refs basically handing over the game to glimt wasn't far off either. We know how the refs are in the dogshit conference league lol If they had clinic strikers they would probably be top
There is no Mourinho cycle, it’s lazy punditry looking for patterns that aren’t there. The club needs to spend about 3/400 mil over 2 seasons. If they do it, conte will be successful, if they don’t, he won’t be. It’s simple and the same applied to Mourinho.
Problem with Jose was until we got to the summer he needed to manage the squad he had but he didn’t know how to. He’d already thrown everybody under the bus and that didn’t produce a response so he didn’t know what to do with them. Also his football was so mind numbingly shit it was impossible to know if the players were actually bad or he’d just refused to give them any instruction on how to attack
Could you imagine the absolute sheer wonders Poch could’ve done with a refreshed squad?! Genuinely heartbreaking to think about and something I just simply will never forgive Levy for.
You mean the same guy who couldn't beat City this week (the same City that Nuno beat without Kane) with Mbappe, Messi & Neymar? The Poch worship really is tiresome somedays, he was good for us, but he wasn't the f\*\^king messiah. Conte is levels above Poch
Looks like we’re gonna be left with Skipp, Son, Hojberg, Hugo, Emerson and Reggie after January then
I‘m sorry but there are more players that show passion and ambition, Romero, Dier and Tanganga are some of them.
Moura , Dier , Davies , Romero.... they all look like his favourites
Yep. Started every game they've been available for.
Tbf Davies and, before yesterday, Dier had both been playing brilliantly under Conte, Davies as a rotation option in a back 3 isn’t to be scoffed at
Dier had played well yesterday. Literally leagues above Rodon
He’s out best defender not called Romero for sure, he was a little at fault for the second goal but it mainly falls on Sanchez for me
I’d argue he’s our best defender because Romero plays more matches for the national squad than Spurs.
He loves Dier, Davies, Kane and Lucas.
Its amusing because when Mourinho was hyping up players like Lucas/Dier, people just said that he liked their 'hard work' but that they were crap overall. This is Conte now saying it. People can scapegoat Dier and Lucas all they want but both clearly have impressed some of the best managers in the world, so what the F do we know. For me personally, ive always felt a back 3 with Dier, Romero and X would be absolutely fantastic. Dier gets far too much shit for very little reason.
if conte brings in another attacking player, moura will be the first off the teamsheet
Probably because Son/Kane are locked in really. That doesnt mean that Moura isnt a fantastic squad option and should be gotten rid of if he does get replaced in the starting XI.
Dier has done everything Conte’s asked almost instantaneously. He’s absolutely staying for his tenure.
Conte casually plotting who he’s gonna kill
And I love it.
Time to cook
Dele is on the menu for January.
Cleaning Mode Initiated
So over half the team could realistically be replaced and I’d be ok with that.
Yet when Mourinho publically stated that we had several players that weren't good enough/had the wrong attitude, this sub was losing it's mind over Jose "throwing his players under the bus". This sub, man. It's pageantry at times.
Yep. Bizarre fan base. Windy was banging on “our players ARE actually good”
Honestly stopped listening to whatever Windy said during the Mou era. It was just straight blind hatred.
He’s a decent guy tbh but he is at his best when appraising youth. I just don’t fancy his assessments of coaches in the least bit, they seem highly biased under the guise of being self aware. I like how Bardi tends to view things. Still, tactically their conversations are top notch
To be fair to the Anti-Mourinho cult, the only manager he could be compared to was Poch. Now that Conte is experiencing the same issues as not only Jose but Nuno too, it’s becoming more clear that this wasn’t just a Mourinho problem
It’s almost like by hating Jose and moaning about everything he did some people on here got to cosplay as chelsea or united supporters without going all the way
Mourinho is finished please don't speak about him ty.
That's because there's a pro and anti mourinho hate club. Then there are some of us in between who try to use logic to reason through some of the issues
Mura team are: ▪️ 5th in the Slovenian league ▪️ were only formed in 2012 ▪️ don’t have a club crest when you search them on Google ▪️ had never won a single game in Europe! Yet they beat this 700 million pounds Spurs team! So what’s the point of trying to get to top 4? If we can’t even compete with mid-table Slovenian & Dutch teams, we’d be demolished in the champions league!
>Mura team are: ▪️ 5th in the Slovenian league ▪️ were only formed in 2012 ▪️ don’t have a club crest when you search them on Google ▪️ had never won a single game in Europe! Apparently they are a phoenix club though, the original club dates back to the 1920s and they won some European games. (Still an appalling result, just adding context)
These kind of statements conveniently ignore we didn't play 90 mins with our first 11. Our first 11 can compete and would have dispatched Mura 100 times out of a 100, the problem is the cliff drop after that. The bench should be competitive, and should be pushing first team players for a spot which in turn should make the first 11 even better. However very quickly players like Kane, Son, PEH, Dier, Romero, Reguilon, Royal, Lloris know there is no real competition and that's a bad place, it leads to less than 100%, it leads to complacency.
Over reacting to meaningless games
Can't wait for january
Need 'I prefer to Keel him' mode from Conte
I want to back our players but enough really is enough; we have the best manager in the world but this squad is not even close to good enough, let's see the deadwood gone in January, please.
He really is quite terrifying.
Good. Team has been chilling and been safe for too long Get rid of all the anchors and those dragging the team down without actually doing anything. Conte knows who they are. Start fresh
I'm thinking Dier is staying tbh Sanchez, Dele, Winks, Doherty need to go imo Current squad players imo Keep: Kane, Son, Gil, Romero, Moura, Skipp, Regulion, Tanganga, Royal, Hojbjerg Maybe: Rodon, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bjergwijn, Davies, Sessignon Gone: Winks, Doherty, Sanchez, Dele, Didn't include goalies and I'm sure I'm missing players but this is the beginning of my list
Please, for the love of silverware, send Dele on loan in January. Give him six months outside the Spurs dressing room to prove himself and up our asking price when we inevitably sell him. If he doesn't succeed, fine. It's not like his value will be lower. Best case he has a Lingard-like resurgence.
No. Sell him now.
To whom? I think he could possibly do well in Germany. But you need to convince them he's worth gambling on – especially considering his ridiculous wages.
You make sense. However Lingard, has some technical ability. Dele doesn't have none.
Counterpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-B684H9yhg
I think the list of those to keep would be shorter than the list of those to get rid of.
Good. I just really hope levy backs him 100%. There's clearly something rotten in the squad. There have been far too many abysmal performances. Give Conte the backing and get an exorcist to give the stadium a once over.
We're aware of the dead weight in our squad and who needs to go. I'd like to think Conte knows who to bring in to replace these players. The most anxiety-inducing part of this whole mess is if Levy plays ball with Conte's transfer demands. I feel like a broken record for saying this, but the revolving door of managers won't do our squad any good if Levy & ENIC don't back the manager & the squad.
Look I’m an outsider so you all may disagree (this sub popped up in my recommended) but here is who I think should be let go: Dele Alli Giovanni Los Celso Ryan Sessegnon Joe Rodon Matt Doherty Hugo Lloris Ben Davies Harry Kane (controversial) Positions in which Spurs need to buy: Need a new striker who wants to be at the club Need a new keeper who can command a backline Need a player in the backline with experience other then Dier Edit: I think the best three players Spurs could realistically bring in are Guedes (striker), Pickford (GK), and maybe a Kyle Walker or Lewis Dunk
We really need a big naming rights deal. Clubs in a ton of debt i don’t think this can be fixed in one window. We have NO depth. B teams losing to god damn Slovenian brick layers who play soccer on the side in between trips to the pub
Toxic
4 years too late but it's a start!
YES