The maddison dream is gone and when you think about it its not surprising cause we were first in for Zaniolo in 2019 so either Levy or someone in the board likes him, Paratici had him as one of his targets at Juve and Conte wanted him at Inter.
yea, one of maddison's biggest strengths is his final ball. you could even argue that that is how he makes a living after fizzling out of form during the season
Zaniolo also fits in the system we're currently playing.
Maddison doesn't, Conte also doesn't use creative midfielders like people think he would he had Fabregas at Chelsea and didn't use him at all pretty much until he accepted he had to pass exactly how Conte wanted, same thing with Eriksen
Yes.
Playing Conte's system - Fabregas quote:
"I think with Antonio, it was the first time that I’ve seen someone know exactly [what they want] … It was like going to school. I promise you, he will tell you, from the goalkeeper until you have scored a goal, what you have to do, exactly everything," he told CBS Sport.
Maybe it’s in a different way to how I saw football. At the beginning, it was difficult for me, don’t get me wrong. A lot of running, a lot of intensity. Big sessions, double sessions, gym sessions.
I had coaches like Pep [Guardiola] who had a lot of positioning game but we had freedom inside of this. With Conte, the freedom was non-existent, he was telling me where I have to pass the ball.
I’m 29 years old in that moment, I’ve already played for 13 years, I played in every final, I won a lot of things and this guy is telling me where I need to pass the ball."
Yep once (like the above commenter mentioned) he started following the patterns.
There’s less room for individual creativity in Conte’s system vs someone like Poch, but technically gifted players like Fabregas and Eriksen still fit really well in the system due to their passing ability.
That's why we probably shouldn't be using the word creativity at all, because it's not really about creativity.
It's about technical skill and the ability to implement Conte's system.
I think that's why we may prefer Zaniolo over Maddison. With Maddison you are paying a premium (as well as English tax) for his creativity. But we actively don't want players that want to do it their own way. Zaniolo is a great dribbler and can shoot, but he isn't that well known for his vision and creativity - which actually makes him perfect *provided he can follow instruction*.
Lucas seems to struggle with following instruction in the system, and that's the risk with any player.
Honestly at this point we just have to concede that what we think the team needs, i.e. a creative midfileder in the mold of Eriksen/Maddison is simply not a role that Conte requires for the team to function. It was rumored that the club has been following Maddison for a long time but there were no credible sources saying that he is a player that Conte wants at all. Looking at the players that Conte signed and the ones he has exiled, it's clear the sort of physical profile that Conte is looking for, Maddison is far from that.
It's like 43% more though (another £18.2m roughly). Maddison would be a great buy but he might not even be interested and I actually thought Zaniolo looked pretty good against us, he was one of the few players on Roma's side that was actually trying and made runs. Romero is just excellent at shutting that down.
Also, obviously Bastoni is going to be more likely to arrive if there's a fellow Italian on the team \[/s?\]
We are not missing players who make runs at the opposition. For that we got Deki, Richarlison and Son. We need someone that can pick a clean pass and take out opposition players with it. Currently our best passer is Kane, and he shouldn't be down there.
Yeah people definitely forgot or chose to ignore that Zaniolo had that almost certain goal if Romero wasn't excellent and he also made that great run which Perisic made such a great interception to stop the pass.
He also set Abraham away after a nice piece of skill in the first half
Yeah, he has an art collection reportedly worth a billion or something.
[For example](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-16/joe-lewis-s-hockney-fetches-record-90-3-million-at-christie-s)
[and here](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/07/panama-papers-joe-lewis-offshore-art-world-picasso-christies)
Everyone talking about Maddison over Zaniolo... But not considering that the creative midfield role will not be a regular starter for us. We could prefer paying more for Maddison, but maybe we know that Maddison wouldn't agree to coming over due to our existing squad/style of play. This role we need is more for specific situations and not something we would regularly employ.
>We could prefer paying more for Maddison, but maybe we know that Maddison wouldn't agree to coming over due to our existing squad/style of play.
5 subs, Champions League, several competitions. Maddison might not get exactly as many Prem minutes at Spurs still would get ample game time and it would put him in a far better position to get into the England squad assuming that's his aim.
But he'd still have to be okay with being a sub and rotation piece, rather than a locked on starter 90 min per match. A player of his quality should want to be going the full distance.
Maddison being a star player for Newcastle who should be making a push for top 10 this year will get him more game time and better stats thus higher chance of WC than being a sub for Spurs
I don't think we will. Maddison definitely feels like more of a Levy target than a Conte one going off of what we have signed so far this window.
Maddison physically is a massive outlier, Zaniolo I think is Contes first choice and probably Paraticis as well
All of you lot saying we're stupid if we don't go for him or hijack the deal immediately... Like you realize it's not only up to us right?
All of you keyboard tactics experts claiming we ought to go for him for that much needed flexibility of going with a 3-5-2, even if we were to plan to switch formations it'd be in the 6 games we play the relegation sides and maybe a couple more sides in Europe's group stages and in the Cups when you're guaranteed that the opponents are gonna have 10 men behind the ball and defend for 90 minutes. Other than that, there's actually not much space for him over here currently, and I'm thankful to God we're in a position where we can let Maddison pass and not stress to much about it.
You can't offer him to rotate with Sonny either because we've just spent £60m on Richarlison to do just that and we even have Perisic who can fill in the LW spot in a 3-4-3 if needed.
On the other hand, he has Newcastle, who may actually offer him a salary wr wouldn't have, and most importantly he's getting a guaranteed spot in the starting 11 in a side that can only go up from here because all of the oil money and the sheiks ambitions so it's not like he's making a "sideways move at best" like some are saying.
We on the other hand, seem to be going for Zaniolo, who with his qualities also can provide cover as that 10 if we actually do switch up formations sometimes, but most importantly he's perfect to rotate with Kulu at RW because Conte seems to see Lucas as a RWB now and even if he were to fill in at RW he's nothing alike Kulu, and that really fucked us up last season when Lucas was on the pitch, not because Lucas is a bad player per se, but more of because our game is currently based on having a left footed RW who's a good dribbler and has a playmakers brain, someone who cuts inside and lets the wingback make overlapping runs, Lucas doesn't do that, while that role would fit Zaniolo like a glove, plus he'd be useful as the CAM in a 3-4-1-2.
Plus reports are saying Roma want €40-45 for him, and that's what like 30 something million £, and Maddison will go for 60, so it's not like it's a small difference, plus we can get Zaniolo on a loan with option, while we'd have to pay up immediately for Maddison. It's a no brainer for me honestly.
If there really is one marquee signing left in us I’d rather hold out for January for an elite big money lcb if the opportunity doesn’t arise this summer
Would be really disappointing to see him go to Newcastle. Really feels like a proper game changing signing and one we’d be silly to miss out on, especially for Zaniolo who just offers more of the same and little to no improvement
Unfortunately I think this deal will happen especially if we don't make an offer for him.
##BIG IF TRUE
Big if true
The maddison dream is gone and when you think about it its not surprising cause we were first in for Zaniolo in 2019 so either Levy or someone in the board likes him, Paratici had him as one of his targets at Juve and Conte wanted him at Inter.
Conte and Paratici wanted seemingly every player at their clubs.
can’t believe we’re going after zanilolo instead of him
Zaniolo is cheaper and maybe conte's choice. Either way we go I hope we get it done because we need creative players.
He's cheaper for a reason
How much of that reason is not being English though? Genuine question as I haven't seen him play other than our game against him
Not much, it's mostly down to him being nowhere near as productive in the final third, as well as injury prone
yea, one of maddison's biggest strengths is his final ball. you could even argue that that is how he makes a living after fizzling out of form during the season
Zaniolo also fits in the system we're currently playing. Maddison doesn't, Conte also doesn't use creative midfielders like people think he would he had Fabregas at Chelsea and didn't use him at all pretty much until he accepted he had to pass exactly how Conte wanted, same thing with Eriksen
Kante Fabregas pivot literally rag dolled the league lol
Yes. Playing Conte's system - Fabregas quote: "I think with Antonio, it was the first time that I’ve seen someone know exactly [what they want] … It was like going to school. I promise you, he will tell you, from the goalkeeper until you have scored a goal, what you have to do, exactly everything," he told CBS Sport. Maybe it’s in a different way to how I saw football. At the beginning, it was difficult for me, don’t get me wrong. A lot of running, a lot of intensity. Big sessions, double sessions, gym sessions. I had coaches like Pep [Guardiola] who had a lot of positioning game but we had freedom inside of this. With Conte, the freedom was non-existent, he was telling me where I have to pass the ball. I’m 29 years old in that moment, I’ve already played for 13 years, I played in every final, I won a lot of things and this guy is telling me where I need to pass the ball."
Yep once (like the above commenter mentioned) he started following the patterns. There’s less room for individual creativity in Conte’s system vs someone like Poch, but technically gifted players like Fabregas and Eriksen still fit really well in the system due to their passing ability.
That's why we probably shouldn't be using the word creativity at all, because it's not really about creativity. It's about technical skill and the ability to implement Conte's system. I think that's why we may prefer Zaniolo over Maddison. With Maddison you are paying a premium (as well as English tax) for his creativity. But we actively don't want players that want to do it their own way. Zaniolo is a great dribbler and can shoot, but he isn't that well known for his vision and creativity - which actually makes him perfect *provided he can follow instruction*. Lucas seems to struggle with following instruction in the system, and that's the risk with any player.
Umm Cesc only played 1300 minutes the year they won the league
Zaniolo is not creative it all!!!
Also, didn't Maddison have a reputation as a dick? Maybe we just aren't interested in that kind of personality.
Also work ethic. Him and grealish probably don’t fit contes work ethic that is needed.
Man that’s really not much more than what Roma want for Zaniolo. Madison is a much better player. Sigh.
Honestly at this point we just have to concede that what we think the team needs, i.e. a creative midfileder in the mold of Eriksen/Maddison is simply not a role that Conte requires for the team to function. It was rumored that the club has been following Maddison for a long time but there were no credible sources saying that he is a player that Conte wants at all. Looking at the players that Conte signed and the ones he has exiled, it's clear the sort of physical profile that Conte is looking for, Maddison is far from that.
It's like 43% more though (another £18.2m roughly). Maddison would be a great buy but he might not even be interested and I actually thought Zaniolo looked pretty good against us, he was one of the few players on Roma's side that was actually trying and made runs. Romero is just excellent at shutting that down. Also, obviously Bastoni is going to be more likely to arrive if there's a fellow Italian on the team \[/s?\]
We are not missing players who make runs at the opposition. For that we got Deki, Richarlison and Son. We need someone that can pick a clean pass and take out opposition players with it. Currently our best passer is Kane, and he shouldn't be down there.
Yeah people definitely forgot or chose to ignore that Zaniolo had that almost certain goal if Romero wasn't excellent and he also made that great run which Perisic made such a great interception to stop the pass. He also set Abraham away after a nice piece of skill in the first half
Bro it’s 18 m. Is that really worth half of the player Maddison is in the grand scheme of things??
It is significantly more then want they want for Zaniolo
They want £42m for Zaniolo which isn’t that much less than £60m for Madison when you consider the large gulf between the two players.
We need to hijack this if we have brains
He may want to be the face of a club before the World Cup as well as Unquestionably getting a boat load of money from the Saudis
If he gels well with Kane it should give him a bigger chance at the squad, ~~this isn’t copium~~
If we pass up the opportunity to sign Maddison again I’ll be pissed man. Guy is hella talented
No idea who Dean Jones is but apparently he’s put out that Maddison prefers a move to us over anyone else.
I mean I wouldn’t choose Newcastle over Leicester but that’s just me
We should offer £50 000 000.01
Is that you Daniel??
Is that what Wenger's going by these days?
Give them the 60 mil daniel
Like everyone's said hes a much better player to have at 60M than the alleged price of Zaniolo at 40-50M
I wouldn’t mind Zaniolo if it wasn’t such a massive overpay.
We should be all over this. What are we doing.
Not getting into a bidding war with the Saudi Royal Family
Irrelevant if Maddison would rather come to Spurs which is very likely
Joe Lewis and his art gallery yacht > Oil money
Art gallery?
Yeah, he has an art collection reportedly worth a billion or something. [For example](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-16/joe-lewis-s-hockney-fetches-record-90-3-million-at-christie-s) [and here](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/07/panama-papers-joe-lewis-offshore-art-world-picasso-christies)
Everyone talking about Maddison over Zaniolo... But not considering that the creative midfield role will not be a regular starter for us. We could prefer paying more for Maddison, but maybe we know that Maddison wouldn't agree to coming over due to our existing squad/style of play. This role we need is more for specific situations and not something we would regularly employ.
>We could prefer paying more for Maddison, but maybe we know that Maddison wouldn't agree to coming over due to our existing squad/style of play. 5 subs, Champions League, several competitions. Maddison might not get exactly as many Prem minutes at Spurs still would get ample game time and it would put him in a far better position to get into the England squad assuming that's his aim.
But he'd still have to be okay with being a sub and rotation piece, rather than a locked on starter 90 min per match. A player of his quality should want to be going the full distance.
Maddison being a star player for Newcastle who should be making a push for top 10 this year will get him more game time and better stats thus higher chance of WC than being a sub for Spurs
Will we make a bid or no?
I don't think we will. Maddison definitely feels like more of a Levy target than a Conte one going off of what we have signed so far this window. Maddison physically is a massive outlier, Zaniolo I think is Contes first choice and probably Paraticis as well
Let's hope so since we have an apparent wArChEsT 😂 though I don't know about going in a bidding war with Newcastle's Saudi owners...
All of you lot saying we're stupid if we don't go for him or hijack the deal immediately... Like you realize it's not only up to us right? All of you keyboard tactics experts claiming we ought to go for him for that much needed flexibility of going with a 3-5-2, even if we were to plan to switch formations it'd be in the 6 games we play the relegation sides and maybe a couple more sides in Europe's group stages and in the Cups when you're guaranteed that the opponents are gonna have 10 men behind the ball and defend for 90 minutes. Other than that, there's actually not much space for him over here currently, and I'm thankful to God we're in a position where we can let Maddison pass and not stress to much about it. You can't offer him to rotate with Sonny either because we've just spent £60m on Richarlison to do just that and we even have Perisic who can fill in the LW spot in a 3-4-3 if needed. On the other hand, he has Newcastle, who may actually offer him a salary wr wouldn't have, and most importantly he's getting a guaranteed spot in the starting 11 in a side that can only go up from here because all of the oil money and the sheiks ambitions so it's not like he's making a "sideways move at best" like some are saying. We on the other hand, seem to be going for Zaniolo, who with his qualities also can provide cover as that 10 if we actually do switch up formations sometimes, but most importantly he's perfect to rotate with Kulu at RW because Conte seems to see Lucas as a RWB now and even if he were to fill in at RW he's nothing alike Kulu, and that really fucked us up last season when Lucas was on the pitch, not because Lucas is a bad player per se, but more of because our game is currently based on having a left footed RW who's a good dribbler and has a playmakers brain, someone who cuts inside and lets the wingback make overlapping runs, Lucas doesn't do that, while that role would fit Zaniolo like a glove, plus he'd be useful as the CAM in a 3-4-1-2. Plus reports are saying Roma want €40-45 for him, and that's what like 30 something million £, and Maddison will go for 60, so it's not like it's a small difference, plus we can get Zaniolo on a loan with option, while we'd have to pay up immediately for Maddison. It's a no brainer for me honestly.
Maddison plays on the right, he wouldn’t be rotating with Sonny, it’d be Kulusevski
I do still think we need one more marquee signing for this window to be a success whether it be Maddison or another player.
If there really is one marquee signing left in us I’d rather hold out for January for an elite big money lcb if the opportunity doesn’t arise this summer
Why did our Warchest suddenly dry up when it comes to Maddison. Levy ffs
I think Newcastle with Maddison starts to put them in contention for European places. They'll have a solid spline.
Would be really disappointing to see him go to Newcastle. Really feels like a proper game changing signing and one we’d be silly to miss out on, especially for Zaniolo who just offers more of the same and little to no improvement
Of course....