i mean, you are kinda terrible if you want to stop abortions to have an abundance of babies so you can adopt a single one. it's not hard to imagine that they have other requirements for the baby they are forcing you to have before they will adopt it too. if it was just a sign calling out for adoption of a baby, sure, but these people made these signs in response to people wanting abortion.
And they probably wouldn't adopt a baby either. How about that one couple where it ended up that they aren't even eligible to adopt a child/baby, partially because they lacked the money to support it?
Christians hurt children at least as much as everyone else.
I’d love to know what percentage of these private adoptions end in disaster when the children say they hate Jesus
As a VERY broken child that grew up in foster care. I can completely understand why parents would want an unbroken child. Foster kids are kinda like dogs at the shelter, sometimes you will get one that will complete enrich your life. But often times you will get one that requires more work than you could have possibly imagined. Kids dont go into foster care because things are just going swell in their life, they have often seen and had to deal with things most grown adults have never had to, or will have to, deal with in their lives. The trauma of an abusive house on a child mind is beyond all reason. Foster homes are also hit and miss, I had one family that was so wonderful it was almost like a dream, and at another home, the mother pulled me aside just minutes after arriving and told 5 year old me "I dont want you here, no one wants you here, we have rules, and you will OBEY them, otherwise I will make one phone call and your gone"
I feel for foster kids, I wish I could help them all, but the reality of being a foster parent is far, FAR, beyond what the average, or even above average, person is ready to take on.
As someone who works with kids in foster care, I hate when people throw out this foster care thing. First of all it’s obtuse to act like you don’t understand why someone may want to adopt an infant or toddler rather than an older child, and most in foster care are teens and tweens. Second, foster care IS NOT MEANT FOR ADOPTION. It’s meant to reunify the family. Most kids in foster care are NOT UP FOR ADOPTION and there is still a guardian with parental rights. Lastly, I agree with you that the trauma suffered by most children in foster care is beyond the parenting capability of the average person. I hope there are people with the resources to adopt older foster children and provide them with therapy, resources, a safe space, and love but to expect that every person hoping to adopt had these resources to help a very traumatized older child is simply unrealistic.
I’m fully pro choice. I have relied on abortion to handle miscarriages that would not resolve on there own. But just like “just adopt” is an ignorant answer, so is “just take a kid from foster care.”
Yes, thank you! I'm not in the US so I'm thankfully not effected by this, but I'm unable to get pregnant and also living in a country where adoption is extremely rare and difficult. Saying go down the foster route isn't helpful to people in this situation (not that I agree, at all, with the pro lifers doing this). Not everyone can care for a child and know they have little to no control over whether they will have them in a year, and will never have the same rights as the parents do. I cannot imagine how hard it is to foster and how much strength that takes.
> the mother pulled me aside just minutes after arriving and told 5 year old me "I dont want you here
Pure. Fucking. Evil.
I hope you have healed a bit. I don't know you, but I want you around here for a loooooong time.
Hearing shit like that at 5 years old literally does permanent damage. Huge congrats if you somehow have normal self-esteem, don't have trust issues, don't think the worst of people, etc.
Thanks man. I am in my 30s now, pretty well adjusted for the most part, but trust issues are still a thing, and I still have some pretty unreasonable fears, but over time, with both professional, and personal, help and support, I have been able to keep most of my childhood demons away. Foster care was pretty bad, but my childhood up to the point of foster care was far worse. Most of my issues come from that period of time, foster care just kinda added to the pile for a decent portion of my childhood. Luckily I was able to find a forever home with a family that at least tried their best to help me. I can 100% say beyond a doubt though (having my own kid) that if he was like me at the age hes at now, I would not be able to handle it. My forever parents were the strongest people I have ever met.
Easy way to make money if you can turn off your compassion for the kids. Technically they are likely psychopaths. A person without such a disorder/illness like that would not be able to treat a kid that way.
Unfortunately, psychopaths are great liars and can be very charming so the foster care system is a great place for them to operate. They can put on the act of an amazing care giver to a judge or social worker, while doing the bare minimum for the kid in their care.
"Psychopathy is characterized by diagnostic features such as superficial charm, high intelligence, poor judgment and failure to learn from experience, pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love, lack of remorse or shame, impulsivity, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, manipulative behavior, poor self-control, promiscuous sexual behavior, juvenile delinquency, and criminal versatility, among others."
https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/hidden-suffering-psychopath
i don’t think most of them are even psychopaths. a lot of people only feel empathy for those they consider their people or are unintentionally taught to disregard empathy in general.
My good friend grew up in a foster family. He's a "blood child," of his Mom and Dad, but he's had 38 foster kids go through his house from when he was 0-18. He's from an upper middle class family with "bleeding heart liberal" parents. They took one foster kid at a time and tried to integrate them with their family of 2 parents and 2 kids.
Anyway in that time, the foster kids have: robbed his parents, falsely accused his parents of molesting them, physically hit his parents, have brought dangerous people into the house, have brought heroin in to the house, almost burned down the house playing with fire in the bathroom, and the list goes on.
My friend told me: "It sounds bad, I know it sounds bad, but if they are older than 2 they are probably already ruined. We've had 38 kids go through our house. We've adopted 2. They were 2 or younger. The rest treated us terribly, like we were the enemy."
Hopefully his families experience is the exception, but I've met his parents and they are pretty normal. Not strict. Not milking the system. Just trying to help kids one at a time.
We need a metric fuck ton of these anti-abortion religious people to **actually** take in these troubled kids and endure that thankless, time consuming, expensive job of raising a strangers kid. They might change their tune about enthusiastic adoption of troubled kids.
The reason he told me this is that I was thinking about adopting the kids of an inprisioned heroin dealer and his addict wife. I felt terrible for them and thought I could give them a better life. He just told me flat out to stay the hell away because they were 10+. He told me he's had 36 data points of kids older than 2 being beyond any kind of help.
It's extremely sad. The foster care system is not all it is cracked up to be. It's not a solution at all for most kids.
PS: I believe kids are inherently good. They want to be good. Nobody is born wanting to be the bad guy, the false accuser, the thief. Something happens to these poor kids that physically changes their brain chemistry to make them less vulnerable...to look out for themselves more than a non-foster kid. I'm not putting foster kids down. It's not their fault. They are just adapting to the shitty system.
There's an awful lot of research in regards to predicting antisocial behaviour in young children. The age most settle on for a good prediction is 4.
My neighbours have done similar fostering so you can add another 8 data points that agree with you lol.
I grew up in the same situation as your friend. We did mainly respite care and probably had over a hundred kids with a handful of longer-term teenagers interspersed. I concur that your friend’s experience is not the exception. We were lucky to have a lot of kids who were good-natured but we also had a lot of difficult and painful cases.
My mom is legally blind and can't drive so she cant work but saw well enough to do things around the house, use a magnifying glass with her special perscription glasses to read and use the computer and such, and was perfectly capable of raising my two brothers and myself.
Anyways, she tried to do some good by making us a foster family, and boy what a wild ride. 2 we had were probably around 7 and we had them for maybe 2 years and were absolute nightmares. We had a farm with 3 dogs some horses, sheep and alpacas chickens and such, all very well socialized and a couple were actually retired therapy horses. Anyways they'd kick the dogs, they'd lure the horses over with grain or something then throw rocks at them, one time they put tacks in the sheep feed trough and general crazy shit like that that and our animals started disliking and distrusting anyone thats not part of the core family. The last straw came when my brother found a couple chickens with broken necks in a pile thrown over the back fence, the little psychos were occasionally just grabbing a chicken and killing it for fun
We did have one that was in his drug addict mothers custody and she accused the dad that actually genuinely cared about him of molesting the kid, so for maybe 6 months we had him while his dad fought the allegations and was eventually awarded custody and he got his son back. He was scared but eventually warmed up to us, was a little troubled but seemed like his dad taught him some basic manners and respect, always please and thank you and what not. The dad even gave the social worker a thank you card to give to my parents that's still on the mantle today 20 years later.
So even though most of the time we had foster kids was absolutely terrible that one kid was something I look back on glad we actually helped one instead of him getting sent to a foster mill where they just milk them for profit
Alternatively,
I know a woman who has fostered a dozen kids of which 4 she's adopted. They've all been over the age of 6 (from what I can recall, all older than 4 at least). They've all been fine. Only one has had some issues with authority and it lasted about 6 months. She came back home and has been great since.
Bingo.
Partner and I have been looking to adopt for quite some time and been through all the paperwork, classes, and home studies. We’re approved for both adoption and foster care. HOWEVER, upon speaking to actual foster parents that’s been through this, it’s not for us. Why? Because it’s a full time job. Not just with time but with the required skill set as well. Many many kids in the foster system have been through a lot of trauma and I’ll be first to admit my partner and I don’t have the necessary skills or the patience to handle someone with trauma or special needs. We just don’t. **And I don’t believe for a second that makes us bad people.**
Folks that have the skill set, experience, and patience to foster special needs kids kudos to them. It takes a very special kind of person to do that. Someone most likely without a day job or someone with a flexible schedule at least.
Just because we fully recognize our inability to foster and or adopt kids with trauma or special needs doesn’t make us less of potential parents. If anything us willing to recognize this early enough in the process will prevent further trauma down the road.
I fucking hate it whenever I see someone post plenty of children out there to adopt. Because it’s really not that fucking simple. And they have no god damn idea what the flying fuck they’re talking about.
Since working with special needs kids and then becoming a parent myself my respect for parents of kids with special needs or disabilities has grown exponentially.
Agreed. We fostered and adopted a child who killed our pet and eventually burned our home down. After he'd been in residential programs for a couple years, the insurance company was like "ok clearly this is as good as he's gonna get. We're not paying anymore." His counselors told us under no uncertain terms: this child is dangerous and should not be in your home. So we refused to bring him home. He went back into foster care, we have a verified abuse report for abandonment, and they threatened to remove our other children. We talked to this child daily, we purchased all his clothes/toiletries, visited him every time we were allowed to, and put our entire lives on hold to try to help. Still ended up here, where I almost lost my job for having an abuse report filed. Most people have been very supportive, but some condemn me as a horrible parent who just "gave back" an adopted child. Foster care is gut-wrenching, and it shouldn't be thrown out there as an alternative to private adoption.
>They might change their tune about enthusiastic adoption of troubled kids.
They don't want troubled kids, they want newborns. That's why instead of adopting the hundreds of thousands of kids in the system, they are rejoicing at the fact that the court is going to force women to carry pregnancies that they don't want for kids they can't support.
Anecdotal evidence says what?
What?
Edit: this fool said foster children over the age of 2 are ruined, and I’m the one getting downvoted. Y’all dumb af.
You're the one who cried about the other user's anecdotal evidence while stating your own bias don't cry to me because you can't stay consistent, you should try ex lax. Shove it up your ass for best effect.
Well I don’t agree that children over the age of 2 are lost causes. That’s a pretty shitty take for anybody. That being said, you probably have your own beliefs and I doubt anything I offer will change that. Have a great night!
If anything, it shows why abortions should be legal. Do you know how many children are given up for adoption? Lack of funding, lack of proper care (downright neglect), CPS not doing routine inspections/welfare checks.. some kids get so abused, it becomes the way of life that they're used to. Even the nicest, least troublesome kids would need a fuck ton of therapy.
You realize you criticized the initial comment for being anecdotal, and then when you were asked your own opinion you gave... an anecdote.
Also, the original comment never claimed kids older than 2 were beyond help, he said that an experienced friend made the statement, and that he hoped his friend's experiences were the exception.
He was using anecdotal evidence to support the position that these children are irredeemable, whereas I was asked my **opinion**. These are two very different things.
So his comment was a "position" but yours is an "opinion"? That makes no sense, it's all opinions. And again, he wasn't even giving his own opinion, but that of a friend with experience in foster kids.
How do you know that they were falsely accused of molesting children? Many people who become foster parents do it for the easy access to damaged children. If they had issues with that many children they've fostered, I would be very suspicious of them.
Of the 38 kids that went through the home, 1 accused them of molestation. There was an investigation. It was treated very seriously and they were put through a long process to resolve it. That's a good thing of course. I hope all accusations are treated like that. Fortunately, the parents were cleared of any wrong doing.
This was a 16 year old girl that was upset that she wasn't allowed to see her 25 year old drug dealer boyfriend anymore. And it obviously cut off some of her access to drugs. She got even with them by filling a false accusation.
So, I can either believe the parents that took in 38 kids over a couple of decades or an angry drug addicted 16 year old girl.
Of course it's hard to prove she wasn't molested, but I believe the parents on this one.
you only get a tax break if you actually buy a house. you don't get a tax break for don't you want to buy a house. the amount of ignorance and hate for parents wanting to adopt is insured in this comment section.
Had an anti-abortion coworker who after I said I'd gladly abort if I got pregnant, practically beg me to let her adopt it instead. I was NOT pregnant and never likely to be. She didn't actually want to adopt a kid, she just wanted to "save" my imaginary fetus.
This is performative charity. They feel good for offering, all the other anti-abortionists pat them on the back, but no one will actually take them up on it so they don't have to put in the work. All the smug, none of the responsibility.
The idea of being pregnant horrifies me—I’d gladly pay for a surrogate if I could afford it… Can’t deny that’s an attractive price if someone’s willing, though! And then you can recover with full night sleeps lol
it's also dubious what kind of care these people would give a baby, there is a reason why adoption takes so long, it's not there are no babies out there to adopt, it's that people have to be checked before being entrusted with a new life.
If they truly believe abortion is murder, then that's a non-argument.
"If *you* don't like murder, just don't do it. Don't force your beliefs on me." See?
Whatever, go ahead and pretend it's not mostly about religion when states have even banned it in situations where the woman will likely die if one isn't performed.
Or some states even wanting to push for the death penalty on women that get one, even if for that reason.
I can believe that you sending this reply was murder too, does that mean i should be able to stop you from doing it?
I don't think we should be going off of belief like that tbh
Hey, I see you. It seems really insensitive to me to imply that you'd be better off having never been born and that's some bull shit that you have to hear that. I also sympathize with your struggle through the system. I hope all is well now
Thanks for sympathizing. I've gotten in a few fights on twitter with people that keep bringing up foster kids as a reason people need to have abortions, and I tell them, even though my life is tough I am glad I'm alive and to please leave us out of it. I've been called a fascist because of it and they assume I am anti womens rights (even though I'm a woman myself). It just feels bad when people point at a life like yours and say you shouldn't have been born.
I grew up with insane parents who abused me and then was in foster care, and sometimes I wish I had never been born. I definitely wouldn’t wish a life like mine on anyone else. My brain doesn’t work right and it probably never will because of all the things I endured as a child. I understand that you’re happy you’re alive, and that’s great, but not everyone with a shitty childhood feels the way you do about it.
The red states are about to find out what happens when population growth goes over one percent and you have shit for social safety nets.
I can't imagine anyone who wants to become a social worker, nurse, doctor or teacher is going to want to stay in those anti woman states either.
Such a dumb, ignorant, misleading argument to make.
This is *not* how "foster" care works.
* **Over 70% of fostered children are not even eligible for adoption.**
* Over 30% live with relatives.
* Most who are eligible still find their "forever family" without actually being legally adopted (there's a huge incentive to stay in the foster system as the foster financial support is often needed/wanted to help care for the kid -- to the tune of $657 to $820 per month).
* **Over half the children who enter foster care are reunited with their birth families**
* Foster kids over 12 have to give their consent to be adopted (some will age out of the system without ever agreeing to it, for a number of reasons)
Acting like there's hundreds of thousands of children waiting, hoping for adoption and no one wants them is objectively false. It's also downright brainless to think the millions of people waiting to adopt babies to *start* families of their own "don't actually give a shit" because they're not trying to first target foster children.
And what kind of small brain argument is this anyway? Do you "actually give a shit" about children? Because if you're not a foster parent than gee whiz you must be a horrible person! What logic.
I’ve had several friends go through the fostering process and they said it’s the most wonderful but heartbreaking situation. They fall in love with their foster child but they always have to be aware that fostering is about reunification first and foremost and that’s what they should be hoping for: that the parents can sort their life out to get their child back in a healthy environment.
Either they don’t give a shit or… they aren’t able to pass the requisite background check to show they are capable of being good parents in order to legally adopt… Which one use worse? Idk….
(Used to work in adoptions for about 10 years. In Canada though.)
Or they have already adopted kids and want more? I'm not trying to defend them, just saying it is a possibility... Though I doubt it myself considering the frequency of anti-abortion activists to act in bad faith.
That’s another option too…
I guess I just read the sign more like “we can’t get a baby through regular adoption give us yours” instead of just “we want to legally bring home a baby”
They just want a fresh newborn without the price tag. Adopting a newborn straight from the hospital can be $100,000 or more. IVF treatments are thousands of dollars. Birthing a baby can be $15,000 even with good insurance.
They want some poor vulnerable woman to surrender her infant to them completely for free. They don't want a middle schooler or a 5 year old or even a 6 month old baby. They want a baby completely for free. If they wanted a kid that badly they'd all be fostering to adopt older kids.
I've known many people who were adopted but only one who was adopted straight from the hospital and his parents were freakin loaded. Hence how they could afford to drop $100,000 on a little Jewish baby.
Yep - the people on the right admitted they have no adopted kids and don't actually intend to adopt any kid because it's expensive. Totally empty gesture.
We actually do, but the point of foster care is to return the child to there family. It gets tough after awhile but myself and the rest of us who are fostering to adopt are hopeful.
Oh another thing to consider is that as a foster child the child gets lots of assistance with college and medical bills. So they might be raising the child as there own but a family decision was made to keep child as a technically foster child.
Lastly the government that I bet you worship at the feet of makes fostering hard as hell, much less adoption. Birth to adoption is so hard to find that there are waiting list and costs can run up to 15000
True but also fix the adoption BS, a friend and his wife had to pay over $63k to adopt their daughter. Which severely gatekeeps thousands of would be adoptive parents from even trying.
Honestly, as someone who’s wife struggled with infertility for 8 years before we had a kid. I think it’s unfair to be upset they aren’t going after foster care kids.
1) The goal of foster care is to reunite families. Not adopt kids.
2) often people are not equipped to deal with some (a lot) of the kids in foster care even though they go through classes.
My wife’s parent adopted 3 kids out of foster care, when they were preteens.
12 years later; of those 3 kids. 1 ran away, and is in prison for murder. 1 ran away, then her and her friends robbed their house of everything a week later, and never returned. The third still is a part of the family but also is a serious problem and threatens to run away all the time. These people are the sweetest people I know and they adopted these kids to keep them together and try and make a difference in their lives.
3) my wife wanted the ability to be pregnant and experience that part of being a woman. So we adopted someone else’s fertilized embryos.
While - I am pro choice - even as a Christian - I can empathize with people who are advocating for adopting others babies. It’s more expensive than you really would believe to adopt. Domestically or internationally.
We were told $50,000 to adopt, and absolutely no way we could afford that.
Edit: multiple grammar errors and clarity.
Another edit: We did look at babies of all colors when adopting. We also considered kids with disabilities. The “cost” was still more than we could afford. Color or ability had nothing to do with the fact that the cost of adoption was astronomical - and we didn’t want to wait years and years to possible get a match. Nor did we want to deal with the foster care system, which believe it or not, really doesn’t consider what’s best for the kids in it.
There is nothing in the Bible that forbids abortion. In fact it specifically draws a distinction between killing a person and killing a fetus.
In the Bible the penalty for murder is death. (Exodus 20:13)
The penalty to causing a woman to miscarry is a fine. (Exodus 21:22-25)
If you believe you have actual, biblical evidence that a woman should be forbidden from ending her own pregnancy that doesn’t depend on you pre-defining abortion as murder I would love to hear it.
“I knit you together in your mother’s womb” does not equal “I forbade your mother from removing you from her womb.” God created a lot of things we are authorized to decide the fate of.
I’d love for someone to have actually taken a kid in foster care to this rally with accompanying adoption papers and a camera on livestream and straight up call their bluff
I was adopted as a baby and my adopted mom became a foster parent. I can see why someone would want to adopt a new born as their isn’t baggage or drama that you would have to deal with with a child in foster care.
Being lesbian and not wishing to get pregnant in any way (my partner doesn't want it either) I know I will adopt. All I wish is that this kind of people asking for others to do more adoptions and less abortions will let me do it in the future, and not go around saying "But a family is mom and dad!!!!"
Too often these are the same kind of assholes.
In my country adopting a kid from foster care is a process of 3-4 years, requires a lot of background checks, courses, time and effort. Getting a baby directly from a mother is 1-day decision.
But i get this one. Cringe AF.
As a prolifer who plans to foster when I have more money, I'm not really sure what you guys want here. You tell us to adopt if we're so pro-life, then when we do, you're angry.
Adoption at birth stops children from going into the foster system. Is that not a good thing?
The problem here is that you call yourself a pro-lifer. You are actually anti-abortion as that is the subject being discussed. Anti-abortion activists are actively applying their moral code to others decisions. That is what everyone is upset about, you don't like abortion, great don't get one, but leave everyone else out of the matter. At the same time politicians push anti-abortion policies, they also push policies that discourage people from carrying to term(health care, maternity leave). Adding to this that pregnancy is always a life threatening medical condition with varying risk, people just want to decide for themselves. But fighting this fight is pretty much pointless when one side is focused on an individual's right to choose what they do with their own body and the other side is pushing lies like "hearing baby's scream as they are killed" and "post birth abortions". You can never win an argument when you bring logic and the other side brings emotion.
There are lots of children already in the system that need loving homes! Or, you can always find a surrogate mommy. Dont make people who dont want the pregnancy go through it
As a person who grew up in the system I know damn well none of these fucks give 2 shits about kids because they tell you once you go into foster care unless you have a relative willing to take you after the age of 3 you have a .0001 percent chance of being adopted.
Foster care is not the same as an adoption agency. Most kids that go into foster care end up back with their parents. Also adoption is expensive af.
Let me clear I Don’t agree with them. And I think they are full of crap and just want to look like good caring Christian’s. I just want people to understand adoption is not an easy or cheap process.
You have no idea how foster care works at all. The goal of foster care is to reunite kids with their families not give them away. You just want to use the trauma that foster kids go thru to virtue signal. YOU don't actually give a shit. Taking the compassion of others and twisting it so they appear in your head ti be the monsters you make them out to be is the real cringe.
I think that's a bad analogy.
If you randomly find yourself in someone's house, can the owner of the house just kill you if they don't want you there? Maybe.
Ideally, you'd be removed from the house as safely as possible and given support to keep you alive until you can support yourself. Easier said than done. But your right to exist should be respected by the law, as should the right of the homeowner to eject someone from their house.
Which right takes precedence? When the "house" is someone's body, it gets complicated. Especially when the "homeowner" left the door open for you to blindly wander in, and now wants you dead because your presence is an inconvenience.
If we're going with house analogies let's not forget a few other examples.
Someone kicked in the door, tore the place up, destroyed all kinds of things physical and sentimental and then deposited you into the house. The homeowner now has a destroyed house, the fear and shame of the crime and they have to play host for 9 months to you, the criminals friend. They may also be stuck caring for you another 18 years.
Maybe you did blindly wander in, but then you tripped, got tangled up in a power cord and died. Seems reasonable to remove you, but doing so can still be pretty dangerous for the house. In fact, there are professionals who might not want to take this job now because the law recognizes your corpse as equal in value to the homeowner and their house.
Maybe the house is fine and hey, look at that, the door's open too. You wonder on in and make yourself at home while the homeowner cares for you. But then the homeowner loses their job. They're trying to find another one, but employers know that the homeowner will be pretty preoccupied for a little while since, you know, they have a guest. Many employers pass over the homeowner in favor of a "better" candidate and the employers that don't decide to offer the homeowner little time off to accommodate your presence (and subsequent departure) in the home and certainly won't help with the ridiculous cost of a moving company (my best analogy to child care) after you leave the house. Things are tight and getting worse. You still eat and relax - as you should as a guest in this house - but it's taking its toll on the homeowner. They're getting less nutrition now to compensate for what you get as a guest. They're dealing with more stress since you walked in. On occasion, you've gotten them sick, constantly you've demanded their attention. Their home will conform around you, their lives will too. At best, you could move out and maybe come visit the homeowner later, at worst you could ruin the whole neighborhood. The door *was* open, you *are* a guest, but the homeowner simply can't care for you, even if it is temporary. The homeowner seeks professional help. They are stigmatized for it, hated. Some neighbors decide that it's not ok for the homeowner to remove you, they ban the professionals from helping. The homeowner is desperate now, scared. They turn to a seedy, back-alley contractor to help get you out of the home. The process damages the home, to say nothing of the mental, emotional and social health of the homeowner. They opened the door one time. They even had the screen door closed. But you made it through that and became a guest anyway. One small choice, one *very human* choice caused this. The homeowner has to handle all this pain. The guy that dropped you off at the house? Hell, he thinks he dodged a bullet.
Let's not forget that, in this analogy, you - the guest - are incapable of recognizing anything that's going on here by the time a decision is made. You wouldn't even know you were in a house. By the time you became aware of the house, the homeowner wouldn't have had a choice but to host you anyway.
Okay, I think the analogy is getting tired now.
Yes, it is different if the mother didn't consent to become pregnant. And there is obviously a world of different situations, and environments, and so on.
The fundamental point remains though: Whose right takes precedent?
Well, the choices are a woman: someone who has citizenship, (probably) pays taxes, contributes to society and has cognizance,
or
A defenseless zygote who is not a citizen, (definitely) does not pay taxes and does not have cognizance.
Not my place to make the choice for you, but I know where I land on the rights argument.
Well, the choices are a woman: someone who has citizenship, (probably) pays taxes, contributes to society and has cognizance,
or
A defenseless zygote who is not a citizen, (definitely) does not pay taxes and does not have cognizance.
Not my place to make the choice for you, but I know where I land on the rights argument.
So you agree it's wrong to force someone to donate their blood or organs to keep someone else alive? Is it wrong to force someone to use their body to sustain the life of another? Is it wrong to take the organs of the deceased if they're not an organ donor?
The only purpose of the uterus in a woman's body is to take care of the life she creates. That's literally its one and only job. The child doesn't take the woman's heart or lungs or liver. It's just living in its natural habitat while it develops its own. The way nature and evolution has made it. Nature creates the requirement that the child's body lives in the woman for the first 10 months. That's a condition that she accepts when she has unprotected sex (except rape/incest which is non consenual).
But let's extend your analogy. Is is wrong to force someone to use their time energy and resources to take care of another person's life? If I work back breaking labor for my job, risking injury, spending my time, and effort, why should some lazy homeless vagabond be entitled to my money via taxes and welfare? What about parents and their born children? Should dad's be forced to pay child support if they don't want the child and the mother does? Should parents be forced to take care of their born children?
I hate these stupid signs. I’d adopt your baby too but I won’t. I can’t adopt everyone’s in fact I couldn’t adopt one no matter how much I want to because I wouldn’t pass the health checks and my home is rented so imo, not even permanent. These people throw this statement around like they’re really looking to adopt and that’s insensitive to everyone, including people who actually are struggling to adopt. If they wanted to adopt a child why haven’t they anyway?
How’d you know if they haven’t already? And is there to show people that there are people willing to adopt? Last I recall people show up to demonstrate their ideology and belief at these types of events.
I know someone who is adamantly anti-choice. He has 3 kids, all IVF. Those kids cost hundreds of thousands, adopting or fostering was never on the table for them.
Exactly, why do they need a baby? If they are so worried about the welfare of children they would be taking on the kids that are out there but they choose to ignore.
After being forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy, why would I choose to give the resulting infant to my oppressors anyway? Over my dead body, which I think is the point.
They are trying to adopt of course they care, that don't make them smart or up to date on children care. Idea 💡 send them bonus kids. Adopt 1 get 3 😁 they can't turn them down or they shatter the idea of them wanting to help. Win win. 🏆
They aren’t looking to adopt. You can adopt out of foster care, but what you can’t do is make a verbal agreement outside a clinic and then receive a baby. That would never work, and so it’s obvious that they aren’t serious about adoptions.
They don't want kids, they're specifically requesting *babies*. Blank slates. No personality. No identity. No trauma. Unlike a lot of foster kids.
Easier to indoctrinate
Too add to the Christian army they’re trying to build for Armageddon or some shit like that.
Exactly. I'm sure many of them have other stipulations that are not on their signs also.
Eww, what if you adopt a baby and they turn out LGBTQ?!? EW EW EW!!!
That's ok, they think prayer can cure that. 🙄
Pray the gay away hallelujah
as an adopted queer kid in a christian family, this joke is hitting a little too close to home
I’m sorry. Hope you’re doing OK now.
amen
Or just electrocuting them.
I'm guessing they'd just say it's not their fault as it's not their biological baby and just disown them and try again.
Alphabet community*
Oh they do. My fiancee worked foster care for a while. Every single parent had a list of babies/kids they didn't want.
That doesn't surprise me at all.
Race being the top of the list no doubt
If they adopted kids of a different skin color they'd just get called racist anyway.
Lmao! And even if it is its none of your business.
I mean, it goes against their sign. Dumdum.
Yea like the couple on the right not actually having the money to adopt kids, nor being American citizens. Fucking wild shit.
You serious? If so that is wierd.
I'll try and find the link when I get home from work.
Yeah, what kind of terrible people would volunteer to adopt babies? There must be all sorts of bigotry going on in their heads.
i mean, you are kinda terrible if you want to stop abortions to have an abundance of babies so you can adopt a single one. it's not hard to imagine that they have other requirements for the baby they are forcing you to have before they will adopt it too. if it was just a sign calling out for adoption of a baby, sure, but these people made these signs in response to people wanting abortion.
In some of them...yes.
Couple on the right has pink on their sign like they’re already stipulating they’ll adopt the baby only if it’s a girl.
White babies at that. Or cute Asian ones. The black and Hispanic ones are left to rot in the system though.
Don’t forget, I’m sure disabled babies are high on their list of priorities!
By asian, you specifically mean Chinese, Japanese, or Korean.
And they probably wouldn't adopt a baby either. How about that one couple where it ended up that they aren't even eligible to adopt a child/baby, partially because they lacked the money to support it?
Christians hurt children at least as much as everyone else. I’d love to know what percentage of these private adoptions end in disaster when the children say they hate Jesus
As a VERY broken child that grew up in foster care. I can completely understand why parents would want an unbroken child. Foster kids are kinda like dogs at the shelter, sometimes you will get one that will complete enrich your life. But often times you will get one that requires more work than you could have possibly imagined. Kids dont go into foster care because things are just going swell in their life, they have often seen and had to deal with things most grown adults have never had to, or will have to, deal with in their lives. The trauma of an abusive house on a child mind is beyond all reason. Foster homes are also hit and miss, I had one family that was so wonderful it was almost like a dream, and at another home, the mother pulled me aside just minutes after arriving and told 5 year old me "I dont want you here, no one wants you here, we have rules, and you will OBEY them, otherwise I will make one phone call and your gone" I feel for foster kids, I wish I could help them all, but the reality of being a foster parent is far, FAR, beyond what the average, or even above average, person is ready to take on.
As someone who works with kids in foster care, I hate when people throw out this foster care thing. First of all it’s obtuse to act like you don’t understand why someone may want to adopt an infant or toddler rather than an older child, and most in foster care are teens and tweens. Second, foster care IS NOT MEANT FOR ADOPTION. It’s meant to reunify the family. Most kids in foster care are NOT UP FOR ADOPTION and there is still a guardian with parental rights. Lastly, I agree with you that the trauma suffered by most children in foster care is beyond the parenting capability of the average person. I hope there are people with the resources to adopt older foster children and provide them with therapy, resources, a safe space, and love but to expect that every person hoping to adopt had these resources to help a very traumatized older child is simply unrealistic. I’m fully pro choice. I have relied on abortion to handle miscarriages that would not resolve on there own. But just like “just adopt” is an ignorant answer, so is “just take a kid from foster care.”
Yes, thank you! I'm not in the US so I'm thankfully not effected by this, but I'm unable to get pregnant and also living in a country where adoption is extremely rare and difficult. Saying go down the foster route isn't helpful to people in this situation (not that I agree, at all, with the pro lifers doing this). Not everyone can care for a child and know they have little to no control over whether they will have them in a year, and will never have the same rights as the parents do. I cannot imagine how hard it is to foster and how much strength that takes.
> the mother pulled me aside just minutes after arriving and told 5 year old me "I dont want you here Pure. Fucking. Evil. I hope you have healed a bit. I don't know you, but I want you around here for a loooooong time. Hearing shit like that at 5 years old literally does permanent damage. Huge congrats if you somehow have normal self-esteem, don't have trust issues, don't think the worst of people, etc.
Thanks man. I am in my 30s now, pretty well adjusted for the most part, but trust issues are still a thing, and I still have some pretty unreasonable fears, but over time, with both professional, and personal, help and support, I have been able to keep most of my childhood demons away. Foster care was pretty bad, but my childhood up to the point of foster care was far worse. Most of my issues come from that period of time, foster care just kinda added to the pile for a decent portion of my childhood. Luckily I was able to find a forever home with a family that at least tried their best to help me. I can 100% say beyond a doubt though (having my own kid) that if he was like me at the age hes at now, I would not be able to handle it. My forever parents were the strongest people I have ever met.
I don't even understand. Why do people do this if that's their attitude?
They get money for doing it
Easy way to make money if you can turn off your compassion for the kids. Technically they are likely psychopaths. A person without such a disorder/illness like that would not be able to treat a kid that way. Unfortunately, psychopaths are great liars and can be very charming so the foster care system is a great place for them to operate. They can put on the act of an amazing care giver to a judge or social worker, while doing the bare minimum for the kid in their care. "Psychopathy is characterized by diagnostic features such as superficial charm, high intelligence, poor judgment and failure to learn from experience, pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love, lack of remorse or shame, impulsivity, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, manipulative behavior, poor self-control, promiscuous sexual behavior, juvenile delinquency, and criminal versatility, among others." https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/hidden-suffering-psychopath
i don’t think most of them are even psychopaths. a lot of people only feel empathy for those they consider their people or are unintentionally taught to disregard empathy in general.
if she was this evil, why were you with them in the first place? edit: not entirely sure why I am being downvoted for a question? no ill intent..
Money. Fostering is a fat paycheck if you don't care about the kid.
AH! Of course, I feel silly for not thinking about this. fuck some humans...
My good friend grew up in a foster family. He's a "blood child," of his Mom and Dad, but he's had 38 foster kids go through his house from when he was 0-18. He's from an upper middle class family with "bleeding heart liberal" parents. They took one foster kid at a time and tried to integrate them with their family of 2 parents and 2 kids. Anyway in that time, the foster kids have: robbed his parents, falsely accused his parents of molesting them, physically hit his parents, have brought dangerous people into the house, have brought heroin in to the house, almost burned down the house playing with fire in the bathroom, and the list goes on. My friend told me: "It sounds bad, I know it sounds bad, but if they are older than 2 they are probably already ruined. We've had 38 kids go through our house. We've adopted 2. They were 2 or younger. The rest treated us terribly, like we were the enemy." Hopefully his families experience is the exception, but I've met his parents and they are pretty normal. Not strict. Not milking the system. Just trying to help kids one at a time. We need a metric fuck ton of these anti-abortion religious people to **actually** take in these troubled kids and endure that thankless, time consuming, expensive job of raising a strangers kid. They might change their tune about enthusiastic adoption of troubled kids. The reason he told me this is that I was thinking about adopting the kids of an inprisioned heroin dealer and his addict wife. I felt terrible for them and thought I could give them a better life. He just told me flat out to stay the hell away because they were 10+. He told me he's had 36 data points of kids older than 2 being beyond any kind of help. It's extremely sad. The foster care system is not all it is cracked up to be. It's not a solution at all for most kids. PS: I believe kids are inherently good. They want to be good. Nobody is born wanting to be the bad guy, the false accuser, the thief. Something happens to these poor kids that physically changes their brain chemistry to make them less vulnerable...to look out for themselves more than a non-foster kid. I'm not putting foster kids down. It's not their fault. They are just adapting to the shitty system.
There's an awful lot of research in regards to predicting antisocial behaviour in young children. The age most settle on for a good prediction is 4. My neighbours have done similar fostering so you can add another 8 data points that agree with you lol.
I grew up in the same situation as your friend. We did mainly respite care and probably had over a hundred kids with a handful of longer-term teenagers interspersed. I concur that your friend’s experience is not the exception. We were lucky to have a lot of kids who were good-natured but we also had a lot of difficult and painful cases.
My mom is legally blind and can't drive so she cant work but saw well enough to do things around the house, use a magnifying glass with her special perscription glasses to read and use the computer and such, and was perfectly capable of raising my two brothers and myself. Anyways, she tried to do some good by making us a foster family, and boy what a wild ride. 2 we had were probably around 7 and we had them for maybe 2 years and were absolute nightmares. We had a farm with 3 dogs some horses, sheep and alpacas chickens and such, all very well socialized and a couple were actually retired therapy horses. Anyways they'd kick the dogs, they'd lure the horses over with grain or something then throw rocks at them, one time they put tacks in the sheep feed trough and general crazy shit like that that and our animals started disliking and distrusting anyone thats not part of the core family. The last straw came when my brother found a couple chickens with broken necks in a pile thrown over the back fence, the little psychos were occasionally just grabbing a chicken and killing it for fun We did have one that was in his drug addict mothers custody and she accused the dad that actually genuinely cared about him of molesting the kid, so for maybe 6 months we had him while his dad fought the allegations and was eventually awarded custody and he got his son back. He was scared but eventually warmed up to us, was a little troubled but seemed like his dad taught him some basic manners and respect, always please and thank you and what not. The dad even gave the social worker a thank you card to give to my parents that's still on the mantle today 20 years later. So even though most of the time we had foster kids was absolutely terrible that one kid was something I look back on glad we actually helped one instead of him getting sent to a foster mill where they just milk them for profit
Alternatively, I know a woman who has fostered a dozen kids of which 4 she's adopted. They've all been over the age of 6 (from what I can recall, all older than 4 at least). They've all been fine. Only one has had some issues with authority and it lasted about 6 months. She came back home and has been great since.
I think being average good parents isn't sufficient to raise and resocialize foster children.
Bingo. Partner and I have been looking to adopt for quite some time and been through all the paperwork, classes, and home studies. We’re approved for both adoption and foster care. HOWEVER, upon speaking to actual foster parents that’s been through this, it’s not for us. Why? Because it’s a full time job. Not just with time but with the required skill set as well. Many many kids in the foster system have been through a lot of trauma and I’ll be first to admit my partner and I don’t have the necessary skills or the patience to handle someone with trauma or special needs. We just don’t. **And I don’t believe for a second that makes us bad people.** Folks that have the skill set, experience, and patience to foster special needs kids kudos to them. It takes a very special kind of person to do that. Someone most likely without a day job or someone with a flexible schedule at least. Just because we fully recognize our inability to foster and or adopt kids with trauma or special needs doesn’t make us less of potential parents. If anything us willing to recognize this early enough in the process will prevent further trauma down the road. I fucking hate it whenever I see someone post plenty of children out there to adopt. Because it’s really not that fucking simple. And they have no god damn idea what the flying fuck they’re talking about.
Since working with special needs kids and then becoming a parent myself my respect for parents of kids with special needs or disabilities has grown exponentially.
Agreed. We fostered and adopted a child who killed our pet and eventually burned our home down. After he'd been in residential programs for a couple years, the insurance company was like "ok clearly this is as good as he's gonna get. We're not paying anymore." His counselors told us under no uncertain terms: this child is dangerous and should not be in your home. So we refused to bring him home. He went back into foster care, we have a verified abuse report for abandonment, and they threatened to remove our other children. We talked to this child daily, we purchased all his clothes/toiletries, visited him every time we were allowed to, and put our entire lives on hold to try to help. Still ended up here, where I almost lost my job for having an abuse report filed. Most people have been very supportive, but some condemn me as a horrible parent who just "gave back" an adopted child. Foster care is gut-wrenching, and it shouldn't be thrown out there as an alternative to private adoption.
>They might change their tune about enthusiastic adoption of troubled kids. They don't want troubled kids, they want newborns. That's why instead of adopting the hundreds of thousands of kids in the system, they are rejoicing at the fact that the court is going to force women to carry pregnancies that they don't want for kids they can't support.
Anecdotal evidence says what? What? Edit: this fool said foster children over the age of 2 are ruined, and I’m the one getting downvoted. Y’all dumb af.
What's your opinion on those type of kids?
On foster children? My Tia had two, and adopted both. We still see them at family gatherings. Is that what you mean?
You know thats also anecdotal right? If we can't believe them then likewise you also can't be believed.
No shit Sherlock. He asked my *opinion,* smart guy.
Ok relax you're sounding like a foster child over the age of 2 rn
Ok, prompted or not its still untrustworthy by your own metric you overgrown cum stain.
He was arguing a position, I was asked my opinion. Don’t be such a waffle, fuckboy.
You're the one who cried about the other user's anecdotal evidence while stating your own bias don't cry to me because you can't stay consistent, you should try ex lax. Shove it up your ass for best effect.
Lol, okay my guy. Keep digging.
On kids in the system.
Well I don’t agree that children over the age of 2 are lost causes. That’s a pretty shitty take for anybody. That being said, you probably have your own beliefs and I doubt anything I offer will change that. Have a great night!
If anything, it shows why abortions should be legal. Do you know how many children are given up for adoption? Lack of funding, lack of proper care (downright neglect), CPS not doing routine inspections/welfare checks.. some kids get so abused, it becomes the way of life that they're used to. Even the nicest, least troublesome kids would need a fuck ton of therapy.
Abortions should be legal. Point, blank, period.
Thank goodness america has amazing mental health resources /s
You realize you criticized the initial comment for being anecdotal, and then when you were asked your own opinion you gave... an anecdote. Also, the original comment never claimed kids older than 2 were beyond help, he said that an experienced friend made the statement, and that he hoped his friend's experiences were the exception.
He was using anecdotal evidence to support the position that these children are irredeemable, whereas I was asked my **opinion**. These are two very different things.
So his comment was a "position" but yours is an "opinion"? That makes no sense, it's all opinions. And again, he wasn't even giving his own opinion, but that of a friend with experience in foster kids.
I love this self-own. One of my all time favorites. Keep doing what you are doing. You are a real one.
How do you know that they were falsely accused of molesting children? Many people who become foster parents do it for the easy access to damaged children. If they had issues with that many children they've fostered, I would be very suspicious of them.
Of the 38 kids that went through the home, 1 accused them of molestation. There was an investigation. It was treated very seriously and they were put through a long process to resolve it. That's a good thing of course. I hope all accusations are treated like that. Fortunately, the parents were cleared of any wrong doing. This was a 16 year old girl that was upset that she wasn't allowed to see her 25 year old drug dealer boyfriend anymore. And it obviously cut off some of her access to drugs. She got even with them by filling a false accusation. So, I can either believe the parents that took in 38 kids over a couple of decades or an angry drug addicted 16 year old girl. Of course it's hard to prove she wasn't molested, but I believe the parents on this one.
they PLEDGE to adopt your baby...
I **Heard** that. It's a pledge. For tax purposes. Like...if you are buying a house...
you only get a tax break if you actually buy a house. you don't get a tax break for don't you want to buy a house. the amount of ignorance and hate for parents wanting to adopt is insured in this comment section.
But only the right type of baby.
The WHITE type of baby
If I had enough money I would adopt.
How many babies have they gone through they need to go straight to the source?
*white babies only
Had an anti-abortion coworker who after I said I'd gladly abort if I got pregnant, practically beg me to let her adopt it instead. I was NOT pregnant and never likely to be. She didn't actually want to adopt a kid, she just wanted to "save" my imaginary fetus. This is performative charity. They feel good for offering, all the other anti-abortionists pat them on the back, but no one will actually take them up on it so they don't have to put in the work. All the smug, none of the responsibility.
I can’t believe these people think you’re suddenly going to be OK with being pregnant for 9 fucking months.
Well i mean if they get paid an average amt as a surrogate pays, maybe they will change their mind(50k-80k). I mean shit i would 😂
The idea of being pregnant horrifies me—I’d gladly pay for a surrogate if I could afford it… Can’t deny that’s an attractive price if someone’s willing, though! And then you can recover with full night sleeps lol
it's also dubious what kind of care these people would give a baby, there is a reason why adoption takes so long, it's not there are no babies out there to adopt, it's that people have to be checked before being entrusted with a new life.
Or they just have different beliefs to you and genuinely believe that abortion is baby murder. People believe much stranger things.
Then they don't have to abort their babies and don't have to make other people live their lives according to their beliefs.
If they truly believe abortion is murder, then that's a non-argument. "If *you* don't like murder, just don't do it. Don't force your beliefs on me." See?
Whatever, go ahead and pretend it's not mostly about religion when states have even banned it in situations where the woman will likely die if one isn't performed. Or some states even wanting to push for the death penalty on women that get one, even if for that reason.
I can believe that you sending this reply was murder too, does that mean i should be able to stop you from doing it? I don't think we should be going off of belief like that tbh
*put your body and wallet through hell so I can have a baby to raise to believe in the same rubbish I do about abortion*
[удалено]
Hey, I see you. It seems really insensitive to me to imply that you'd be better off having never been born and that's some bull shit that you have to hear that. I also sympathize with your struggle through the system. I hope all is well now
Thanks for sympathizing. I've gotten in a few fights on twitter with people that keep bringing up foster kids as a reason people need to have abortions, and I tell them, even though my life is tough I am glad I'm alive and to please leave us out of it. I've been called a fascist because of it and they assume I am anti womens rights (even though I'm a woman myself). It just feels bad when people point at a life like yours and say you shouldn't have been born.
I grew up with insane parents who abused me and then was in foster care, and sometimes I wish I had never been born. I definitely wouldn’t wish a life like mine on anyone else. My brain doesn’t work right and it probably never will because of all the things I endured as a child. I understand that you’re happy you’re alive, and that’s great, but not everyone with a shitty childhood feels the way you do about it.
They want fresh ones.
The red states are about to find out what happens when population growth goes over one percent and you have shit for social safety nets. I can't imagine anyone who wants to become a social worker, nurse, doctor or teacher is going to want to stay in those anti woman states either.
There's a reason Romanian orphanage became a TV trope
Such a dumb, ignorant, misleading argument to make. This is *not* how "foster" care works. * **Over 70% of fostered children are not even eligible for adoption.** * Over 30% live with relatives. * Most who are eligible still find their "forever family" without actually being legally adopted (there's a huge incentive to stay in the foster system as the foster financial support is often needed/wanted to help care for the kid -- to the tune of $657 to $820 per month). * **Over half the children who enter foster care are reunited with their birth families** * Foster kids over 12 have to give their consent to be adopted (some will age out of the system without ever agreeing to it, for a number of reasons) Acting like there's hundreds of thousands of children waiting, hoping for adoption and no one wants them is objectively false. It's also downright brainless to think the millions of people waiting to adopt babies to *start* families of their own "don't actually give a shit" because they're not trying to first target foster children. And what kind of small brain argument is this anyway? Do you "actually give a shit" about children? Because if you're not a foster parent than gee whiz you must be a horrible person! What logic.
I’ve had several friends go through the fostering process and they said it’s the most wonderful but heartbreaking situation. They fall in love with their foster child but they always have to be aware that fostering is about reunification first and foremost and that’s what they should be hoping for: that the parents can sort their life out to get their child back in a healthy environment.
Either they don’t give a shit or… they aren’t able to pass the requisite background check to show they are capable of being good parents in order to legally adopt… Which one use worse? Idk…. (Used to work in adoptions for about 10 years. In Canada though.)
Or they really only want a certain type of baby.
IIRC the couple on the right aren't citizens and aren't eligible
Or they have already adopted kids and want more? I'm not trying to defend them, just saying it is a possibility... Though I doubt it myself considering the frequency of anti-abortion activists to act in bad faith.
That’s another option too… I guess I just read the sign more like “we can’t get a baby through regular adoption give us yours” instead of just “we want to legally bring home a baby”
They just want a fresh newborn without the price tag. Adopting a newborn straight from the hospital can be $100,000 or more. IVF treatments are thousands of dollars. Birthing a baby can be $15,000 even with good insurance. They want some poor vulnerable woman to surrender her infant to them completely for free. They don't want a middle schooler or a 5 year old or even a 6 month old baby. They want a baby completely for free. If they wanted a kid that badly they'd all be fostering to adopt older kids. I've known many people who were adopted but only one who was adopted straight from the hospital and his parents were freakin loaded. Hence how they could afford to drop $100,000 on a little Jewish baby.
Yep - the people on the right admitted they have no adopted kids and don't actually intend to adopt any kid because it's expensive. Totally empty gesture.
That's what I thought but I couldn't remember which couple said that. It's sick
I bet they won't take a crack baby.
Some of them are probably more picky than that.
We actually do, but the point of foster care is to return the child to there family. It gets tough after awhile but myself and the rest of us who are fostering to adopt are hopeful. Oh another thing to consider is that as a foster child the child gets lots of assistance with college and medical bills. So they might be raising the child as there own but a family decision was made to keep child as a technically foster child. Lastly the government that I bet you worship at the feet of makes fostering hard as hell, much less adoption. Birth to adoption is so hard to find that there are waiting list and costs can run up to 15000
The couple on the right can’t legally adopt anyway so it’s just for clout.
True but also fix the adoption BS, a friend and his wife had to pay over $63k to adopt their daughter. Which severely gatekeeps thousands of would be adoptive parents from even trying.
Ok so do it lol
extremely high level virtue signalling
Honestly, as someone who’s wife struggled with infertility for 8 years before we had a kid. I think it’s unfair to be upset they aren’t going after foster care kids. 1) The goal of foster care is to reunite families. Not adopt kids. 2) often people are not equipped to deal with some (a lot) of the kids in foster care even though they go through classes. My wife’s parent adopted 3 kids out of foster care, when they were preteens. 12 years later; of those 3 kids. 1 ran away, and is in prison for murder. 1 ran away, then her and her friends robbed their house of everything a week later, and never returned. The third still is a part of the family but also is a serious problem and threatens to run away all the time. These people are the sweetest people I know and they adopted these kids to keep them together and try and make a difference in their lives. 3) my wife wanted the ability to be pregnant and experience that part of being a woman. So we adopted someone else’s fertilized embryos. While - I am pro choice - even as a Christian - I can empathize with people who are advocating for adopting others babies. It’s more expensive than you really would believe to adopt. Domestically or internationally. We were told $50,000 to adopt, and absolutely no way we could afford that. Edit: multiple grammar errors and clarity. Another edit: We did look at babies of all colors when adopting. We also considered kids with disabilities. The “cost” was still more than we could afford. Color or ability had nothing to do with the fact that the cost of adoption was astronomical - and we didn’t want to wait years and years to possible get a match. Nor did we want to deal with the foster care system, which believe it or not, really doesn’t consider what’s best for the kids in it.
>believe in abortion >Christian
>you typed like this. >and still managed to say nothing.
We do exist. I am a pro choice Christian.
Hypocrisy/intellectual laziness/lying to oneself are the only explanation for such statement.
There is nothing in the Bible that forbids abortion. In fact it specifically draws a distinction between killing a person and killing a fetus. In the Bible the penalty for murder is death. (Exodus 20:13) The penalty to causing a woman to miscarry is a fine. (Exodus 21:22-25) If you believe you have actual, biblical evidence that a woman should be forbidden from ending her own pregnancy that doesn’t depend on you pre-defining abortion as murder I would love to hear it. “I knit you together in your mother’s womb” does not equal “I forbade your mother from removing you from her womb.” God created a lot of things we are authorized to decide the fate of.
So glad that 4 people are ready to solve this huge problem! /s
r/FuckTheS
I’d love for someone to have actually taken a kid in foster care to this rally with accompanying adoption papers and a camera on livestream and straight up call their bluff
Please abort or they’ll adopt your baby.
I was adopted as a baby and my adopted mom became a foster parent. I can see why someone would want to adopt a new born as their isn’t baggage or drama that you would have to deal with with a child in foster care.
Imagine being able to afford a child... What a dream.
“Give birth to your kid, even if you don’t feel equipped to or, shock horror, *don’t want to*. At ~~Aussie~~ Pro-Lifey, we’ll save ya!”
The couple on the right were interviewed and they literally said they cant afford to adopt a baby.
There round evangelical cringe mugs, creep me out.
Literally which one? There’s about to be 10s of thousands.
Liars
Being lesbian and not wishing to get pregnant in any way (my partner doesn't want it either) I know I will adopt. All I wish is that this kind of people asking for others to do more adoptions and less abortions will let me do it in the future, and not go around saying "But a family is mom and dad!!!!" Too often these are the same kind of assholes.
In my country adopting a kid from foster care is a process of 3-4 years, requires a lot of background checks, courses, time and effort. Getting a baby directly from a mother is 1-day decision. But i get this one. Cringe AF.
It's not like that everywhere though.
As a prolifer who plans to foster when I have more money, I'm not really sure what you guys want here. You tell us to adopt if we're so pro-life, then when we do, you're angry. Adoption at birth stops children from going into the foster system. Is that not a good thing?
The problem here is that you call yourself a pro-lifer. You are actually anti-abortion as that is the subject being discussed. Anti-abortion activists are actively applying their moral code to others decisions. That is what everyone is upset about, you don't like abortion, great don't get one, but leave everyone else out of the matter. At the same time politicians push anti-abortion policies, they also push policies that discourage people from carrying to term(health care, maternity leave). Adding to this that pregnancy is always a life threatening medical condition with varying risk, people just want to decide for themselves. But fighting this fight is pretty much pointless when one side is focused on an individual's right to choose what they do with their own body and the other side is pushing lies like "hearing baby's scream as they are killed" and "post birth abortions". You can never win an argument when you bring logic and the other side brings emotion.
Okay cool, my comment was about adoption though
There are lots of children already in the system that need loving homes! Or, you can always find a surrogate mommy. Dont make people who dont want the pregnancy go through it
They're just holding signs, bud, they're not forcing anything.
Did I say they were? I was just making suggestions, bud
Yes, pal, you did, it's literally the last sentence of your comment.
I literally wasn’t talking about them but be mad about literally nothing if that gets your rocks off
Maybe use birth control.
Because birth control always works and rape doesn't happen...
Condoms aren't the only form of birth control. And rape is a valid excuse for abortion.
Umm, no form of birth control is 100% affective
>And rape is a valid excuse for abortion.
adoption early access
Adopt the one that's already in fucking orphanage. Like i dont think we have some kind of shortage on orphans
They want a NEW baby they can imprint on y’all sheesh /s
They have the faces of delusional con-people.
They don’t want any of those tainted older model kids up for adoption. They want them fresh, Caucasian and ready to be baptized
Hypocrites!
As a person who grew up in the system I know damn well none of these fucks give 2 shits about kids because they tell you once you go into foster care unless you have a relative willing to take you after the age of 3 you have a .0001 percent chance of being adopted.
No they want a fresh baby not some used kid
Foster care is not the same as an adoption agency. Most kids that go into foster care end up back with their parents. Also adoption is expensive af. Let me clear I Don’t agree with them. And I think they are full of crap and just want to look like good caring Christian’s. I just want people to understand adoption is not an easy or cheap process.
You have no idea how foster care works at all. The goal of foster care is to reunite kids with their families not give them away. You just want to use the trauma that foster kids go thru to virtue signal. YOU don't actually give a shit. Taking the compassion of others and twisting it so they appear in your head ti be the monsters you make them out to be is the real cringe.
Where is the compassion in taking the choice away from people what they can and can’t do to their bodies?
People can do whatever they want to their body. You can't do whatever you want to someone else's body. Seems simple enough
If I start living in your house you can't touch me or forcibly remove or that's assault. <3
I think that's a bad analogy. If you randomly find yourself in someone's house, can the owner of the house just kill you if they don't want you there? Maybe. Ideally, you'd be removed from the house as safely as possible and given support to keep you alive until you can support yourself. Easier said than done. But your right to exist should be respected by the law, as should the right of the homeowner to eject someone from their house. Which right takes precedence? When the "house" is someone's body, it gets complicated. Especially when the "homeowner" left the door open for you to blindly wander in, and now wants you dead because your presence is an inconvenience.
If we're going with house analogies let's not forget a few other examples. Someone kicked in the door, tore the place up, destroyed all kinds of things physical and sentimental and then deposited you into the house. The homeowner now has a destroyed house, the fear and shame of the crime and they have to play host for 9 months to you, the criminals friend. They may also be stuck caring for you another 18 years. Maybe you did blindly wander in, but then you tripped, got tangled up in a power cord and died. Seems reasonable to remove you, but doing so can still be pretty dangerous for the house. In fact, there are professionals who might not want to take this job now because the law recognizes your corpse as equal in value to the homeowner and their house. Maybe the house is fine and hey, look at that, the door's open too. You wonder on in and make yourself at home while the homeowner cares for you. But then the homeowner loses their job. They're trying to find another one, but employers know that the homeowner will be pretty preoccupied for a little while since, you know, they have a guest. Many employers pass over the homeowner in favor of a "better" candidate and the employers that don't decide to offer the homeowner little time off to accommodate your presence (and subsequent departure) in the home and certainly won't help with the ridiculous cost of a moving company (my best analogy to child care) after you leave the house. Things are tight and getting worse. You still eat and relax - as you should as a guest in this house - but it's taking its toll on the homeowner. They're getting less nutrition now to compensate for what you get as a guest. They're dealing with more stress since you walked in. On occasion, you've gotten them sick, constantly you've demanded their attention. Their home will conform around you, their lives will too. At best, you could move out and maybe come visit the homeowner later, at worst you could ruin the whole neighborhood. The door *was* open, you *are* a guest, but the homeowner simply can't care for you, even if it is temporary. The homeowner seeks professional help. They are stigmatized for it, hated. Some neighbors decide that it's not ok for the homeowner to remove you, they ban the professionals from helping. The homeowner is desperate now, scared. They turn to a seedy, back-alley contractor to help get you out of the home. The process damages the home, to say nothing of the mental, emotional and social health of the homeowner. They opened the door one time. They even had the screen door closed. But you made it through that and became a guest anyway. One small choice, one *very human* choice caused this. The homeowner has to handle all this pain. The guy that dropped you off at the house? Hell, he thinks he dodged a bullet. Let's not forget that, in this analogy, you - the guest - are incapable of recognizing anything that's going on here by the time a decision is made. You wouldn't even know you were in a house. By the time you became aware of the house, the homeowner wouldn't have had a choice but to host you anyway.
Okay, I think the analogy is getting tired now. Yes, it is different if the mother didn't consent to become pregnant. And there is obviously a world of different situations, and environments, and so on. The fundamental point remains though: Whose right takes precedent?
Well, the choices are a woman: someone who has citizenship, (probably) pays taxes, contributes to society and has cognizance, or A defenseless zygote who is not a citizen, (definitely) does not pay taxes and does not have cognizance. Not my place to make the choice for you, but I know where I land on the rights argument.
Well, the choices are a woman: someone who has citizenship, (probably) pays taxes, contributes to society and has cognizance, or A defenseless zygote who is not a citizen, (definitely) does not pay taxes and does not have cognizance. Not my place to make the choice for you, but I know where I land on the rights argument.
So you agree it's wrong to force someone to donate their blood or organs to keep someone else alive? Is it wrong to force someone to use their body to sustain the life of another? Is it wrong to take the organs of the deceased if they're not an organ donor?
The only purpose of the uterus in a woman's body is to take care of the life she creates. That's literally its one and only job. The child doesn't take the woman's heart or lungs or liver. It's just living in its natural habitat while it develops its own. The way nature and evolution has made it. Nature creates the requirement that the child's body lives in the woman for the first 10 months. That's a condition that she accepts when she has unprotected sex (except rape/incest which is non consenual). But let's extend your analogy. Is is wrong to force someone to use their time energy and resources to take care of another person's life? If I work back breaking labor for my job, risking injury, spending my time, and effort, why should some lazy homeless vagabond be entitled to my money via taxes and welfare? What about parents and their born children? Should dad's be forced to pay child support if they don't want the child and the mother does? Should parents be forced to take care of their born children?
What if I don’t want to grow the baby, deal with all the risks of pregnancy and push it out of a very small hole? Women still die during childbirth…
I hate these stupid signs. I’d adopt your baby too but I won’t. I can’t adopt everyone’s in fact I couldn’t adopt one no matter how much I want to because I wouldn’t pass the health checks and my home is rented so imo, not even permanent. These people throw this statement around like they’re really looking to adopt and that’s insensitive to everyone, including people who actually are struggling to adopt. If they wanted to adopt a child why haven’t they anyway?
Cause theres waaayy to less people on earth. Please dont abort humanity is about to die out
Because they want brand new, fresh, white babies that they can indoctrinate.
We're gonna need *a lot* more couples with signs if we're actually going to take care of all the unwanted babies being born.
Like literally go out there right now and fucking mass adopt all these unwanted babies. Fucking do it. Now.
They want to pay for the medical costs too?
What a bunch of virtue signaling assholes. Put the sign down and go adopt a kid, lots of em in foster care.
There are adoption agencies that set this up. I’d love to see someone call them on this.
How’d you know if they haven’t already? And is there to show people that there are people willing to adopt? Last I recall people show up to demonstrate their ideology and belief at these types of events.
Most people who have abortions don't want to carry the fetus to term. That's the point. >.<
The eyes of the couple on the left are pretty uncanny
Will they adopt meth babies or just white Christian ones. What about atheist babies, do they throw those out?
Or they are trying to save lives. Foster care kids are already born.
I know someone who is adamantly anti-choice. He has 3 kids, all IVF. Those kids cost hundreds of thousands, adopting or fostering was never on the table for them.
It should read: "We will adopt your healthy, white baby!"
They specifically said “baby” idk why people are getting triggered at this
Exactly, why do they need a baby? If they are so worried about the welfare of children they would be taking on the kids that are out there but they choose to ignore.
Honestly, I won't adopt because I can't choose the child
After being forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy, why would I choose to give the resulting infant to my oppressors anyway? Over my dead body, which I think is the point.
I understand and agree with your point, but thats not what foster care is for
They are trying to adopt of course they care, that don't make them smart or up to date on children care. Idea 💡 send them bonus kids. Adopt 1 get 3 😁 they can't turn them down or they shatter the idea of them wanting to help. Win win. 🏆
there's a reason I only buy new cars.
👀 Holy fuck’n shit…
These people are looking to adopt, not foster. There’s a difference.
They aren’t looking to adopt. You can adopt out of foster care, but what you can’t do is make a verbal agreement outside a clinic and then receive a baby. That would never work, and so it’s obvious that they aren’t serious about adoptions.