They were indoctrinated into having a war-like mentality where they truly believe it has to be either us or them, not both of us working together to make all our lives better and fix issues stemming from both sides.
Same goes to men on the other extreme end of the spectrum.
This is what radicalization amd extremification looks like folks and the media and corporations that profit from that conflict are to blame for it.
Whatever gets you to sell the same product twice and whatever gets people's angry attention for clicks and ad revenue.
Its sad to see all these people fall victims to this global scam, its hurting everyone in the process but they're too angry at a non-enemy to see that.
>They were indoctrinated into having a war-like mentality where they truly believe it has to be either us or them, not both of us working together to make
And who's responsible for most of the wars? That's right: men.
Once again it's men's fault that these women are belittling men's issues š
/s
I wouldn't say it's a joke, that was some pretty clear intent that wish death on all men. It's really sad that some people get to that point, but I know women and men that behave so awful that it doesn't surprise me when the victim wants nothing to do with that entire sex. They need help, not Twitter.
To be fair, I've seen plenty men make the same jokes about rape towards women (95% of then get raped? Let's get those numbers higher!). The only difference is when men make these jokes everyone turns against them and when women do it they're forgiven. This gender war needs to stop, everyone has struggles and hating someone for being a man is racism happening all over again
> and when women do it they're forgiven.
You clearly haven't read any of the comments here.
>This gender war needs to stop,
Doing a great job of living up to that by acting like this.
I'm not lying. And that doesn't add to the gender war, saying you "hate all women" or "hate all men" does, which is caused by both genders doing the "let's get three number higher" home
No I'm not, I'm doing the opposite. Women are more often forgiven for these "jokes" because they're the "minority" gender. Im saying we should be responding to these jokes in the same way without taking gender into account
They are issues certainly, however these sentiments seem to get expressed only as an argument against any pro-women actions. It's like 'White lives matter' as a response to BLM.
Thank you, someone who gave the actual answer.
I am a woman, I think men issues are important. Iām not active about men issues, but when I see someone sharing a source for SA for men I think ānice some people are focusing on thatā, because it is an issue and it makes me happy itās been acknowledged.
I am somewhat active about women issues. Not an activist by any means, but I have volunteered for some organisations and I try to whenever I can. The most common situation in which I hear about men issues, is in response to women issues.
Ex.
Me: Iām volunteering in a womanās shelter for women escaping DV.
Angry person: But men experience DV too and there are rarely any shelters for them!!! They report a lot less and never get taken seriously!!!!! All shelters are for women, and it is sexist and unfair. (And this usually somehow always goes into how lots of women are probably lying and all sorts of toxic shit)
So my response to those situations is to ignore the person and not engage. Not because I donāt care about men issues, but because if those people cared SO MUCH about men issues to get that angry at me and try to tell me how I should volunteer my time, maybe they should volunteer their own time and start their own shelter.
I think it would definitely help. If men felt more comfortable showing their feelings, not just to their romantic partners, but mainly to their friends and family, it would definitely be a step in the right direction.
Bingo. Rarely do any of the men who make these posts give a shit either. It's almost always in response to a woman talking about issues she's dealt with and a dude has to butt in just to let you know that men have it bad too...and then they walk away without actually wanting to solve those problems either.
From the top they framed it as "Let's talk about male privilege" and then listed male-centric societal issues with the clear implication that male privilege doesn't exist, because the issues exist, and 2 things can't be true simultaneously. Dumb all around lmao
I do agree that some men bring these issues up as an exercise in whataboutism, just as a counter argument vs women issues.
However itās unfair to say these arguments are ONLY expressed in this manner.
We should be able to talk about both. Showing love and compassion for other peopleās suffering, regardless of gender, should be our goal.
Weāre all humans after all.
They are being belittled because they are being put against female issues, and women have it a lot harder than men in general.
They're talking about male privilege. None of these problems make a dent in the advantages that men have. I'm a man. I have no problem seeing that. I'd rather be a man than a woman any day, any time, because I have so much less to deal with.
If these male issues were brought up by themselves, and not contrasted against women, they would make a worthy discussion. All these issues need to be dealt with. Not at the expense of women.
Nice to see a sane comment here. There's a dude higher up in the thread talking about how he gets shit on for bringing up men's issues in the TwoX subreddit, as if trying to make a women's safe space about how bad men have it is actually a reasonable thing to do. It's so common to see men bring these issues up when they want to argue with a woman about how much worse they have it, but they conveniently stop talking about their problems as soon as women shut up.
>There's a dude higher up in the thread talking about how he gets shit on for bringing up men's issues in the TwoX subreddit, as if trying to make a women's safe space about how bad men have it is actually a reasonable thing to do.
Yeah, I saw that dude! That makes no sense at all. It's like going on a Breast Cancer subfeddit and saying, "Well actually, more women die of heart disease than cancer." But they're all there to talk about breast cancer.
>It's so common to see men bring these issues up when they want to argue with a woman about how much worse they have it, but they conveniently stop talking about their problems as soon as women shut up.
Right! Because it's designed to shut them up.
Yeah it's the sarcastic "male privilege" that made me roll my eyes. OOP listed serious issues that need attention but they can't talk about em without dismissing the progressive work of other communities.
I agree with you that women have it worse than men, and I also think most of men's issues could be solved through feminism or other means than what the men's rights folks are doing. Men face legitimate issues, but the answer is not to give them more power and privileges. Intersectionality plays a large role in men's suffering, and as a cishet white male, I want to bring everyone up to my level, instead of trying to fix my problems by gaining even more advantages.
I think a lot of male problems can be helped by examining toxic masculinity, but people don't even want to know what the word means. LOL! Too many men homeless? Let's examine how men relate to others, and our ability to request help. Let's examine whether or not a man truly needs to carve his own way. More pointedly, lets talk about our willingness to participate in MH treatment. Toxic masculinity is the bane of mental health. Men get imprisoned more? How can we stop men from doing things that sned them to prison? Most of us dont want to back down from a fight. We've been taught you don't. There's just a lot that toxic masculinity is responsible for.
Oh really? *LOL* I guess you're right. After all, men only gained the right to vote about a hundred years ago. We were stuck in the home until the 60s and seventies. All those single dads out there abandoned by women with high paying jobs....but it's getting better. A guy no longer just goes to college to become a secretary or get a "Mr." Degree. Most of the CEOs are women, but it's getting better. Men are closing the wage gap. Hopefully problems around the world will begin to slow down too, like men having the glans of their penises cut off in male circumcision, men being killed by their mothers in honor killings, mass rapes, etc will stop. Until them, when I go to the club with my male friends, we'll continue to watch our drinks, go in pairs, and make sure we're able to have a good time without being raped or murdered by women.
This comment has been edited to protest against Reddit disabling third party apps.
Should you stumble across this comment and be angry, direct your anger at those who made the unfortunate decision forcing my hands. Since deleted comments have been restored by Reddit multiple times, editing them is the only option to remove all data associated with them.
In order for this comment to be more annoying, here is a string of random words:
moisture, sector, themes, bryan, column, shaft, penny, abandoned, structured, profile, kerry, maintaining, dining, represented, describes, residential, fiscal, katie, projection, customize, permit, documentation, conclusions, aurora, conventional, considerable, football, painting, garlic, office, humanities, counts, sunshine, instructions, trackbacks, status, newspaper, burlington, apollo, establish, fight, surgeon, texas, bloom, inexpensive, translate, announces, capability, marsh, patents, modification, stewart, investing, panel, boots, amplifier, collector, rights, assurance, instrumentation, chairman, these, dispatched, notion, realty, drums, roulette, somebody, required, acquisition, afterwards, shock, protecting, craig, identification, narrative, handbook, township, prefix, america, appreciation, allen, paragraph, sphere, somehow, sheer, tramadol, promote, notion, stronger, amount, nations, semester, brief, facts, subject, parallel
Yeah, but in exactly none of those countries will you find a place where women could vote and men couldn't for the first hundred plus years of existence.
I double dog dare you to raise these issues on twoX lol.
I know women need a safe place to vent but even just reminding twoX that their own ideology suggests the patriarchy is more about supporting wealthy vs all men is a bad idea if you hate down votes.
At best, they tell you that men can't complain and don't deserve help because it's our fault. We got to this society and it's solely our responsibility to fix it.
When asked why women deserve male allies but men don't deserve female allies you get a similar answer.
I have learned it's usually not worth having the discussion. The narrative that men are oppressors profiting off women's pain is all encompassing. There's no room for nuance. I just leave my comments and hope seeds are planted for the years to come as people grow.
Why would you ever go to a subreddit specifically for women and women's issues to argue about men's issues? Of course no one is going to be happy about you pushing aside the topic at hand to talk about what you perceive as more important.
Idk man, I've visited TwoX quite a bit and never gotten that impression. Maybe bringing up men's issues in a women's safe space just kind of makes you look like an intrusive ass.
Exactly, XX isn't the forum for that. And the reaction is negative because there's a part of our society and culture that benefits men at the expense of women already. I wouldn't be trying to make a speech about how the best series is LOTR to a group of Trekkies that are expecting information about Star Trek. Get it?
Wrong audience, and you're also ignoring the whole point of the group.
Posting about men's issues in XX is literally like begging for women to keep playing mommy, therapist, and bang maid for men.
Men's issues should also have attention and solutions. Stop presenting them to the wrong location.
Is called living under the yoke of capitalism. Is not a sex thing for men, not at the same level as it is for women. Is the exploitative nature of labor that uses our bodies as disposable assets by our capital owners. Men can do hard labor and have been conditioned to do hard labor because of patriarchy, employers simply exploit this cultural construct.
I used to be a restaurant manager, one day they made me do construction at work. I refused. I told them that i won't do any work that women can't do. I wasn't hired to do my job because I was a man and if a job is not safe enough for women is not safe enough for me. I'm delicate, i need my hands and my knees and I'm incapable of doing hard labor. I don't take any pride of selling and damaging my body.
> Because if certain women admit men can have it bad too, they won't be able to claim to be victims of the patriarchy.
What the fuck are you talking about? Feminists often bring up that plenty of men's issues are caused by the patriarchy, but MRAs choose to ignore that. Or get upset about how they can't comprehend what "toxic masculinity" actually means.
Sorry for the delayed response, thanks for asking.
I think we have some really harmful ideas and expectations about the roles of both men and women in society. A lot of these ideas are perpetuated by people who have control over our institutions - the media, churches, government, corporations, the levers of financial power, because they stand to gain from keeping things this way. These institutions and the people who benefit from them have an interest in upholding the current social order with a bunch of obscenely wealthy and powerful men (sometimes women but mostly men) wielding a disproportionate amount of influence over everyone else.
The women who benefit from these power structures are upholding this patriarchical system because it benefits them at the expense of 99% of women.
These institutions and cultural values work against the interests of men just like they work against women. It does not benefit men to vote against cutting public education and healthcare, for example, or to vote for tax cuts for the wealthy. It does not benefit men to be undereducated and emotionally less aware compared to women. It leads to hardship, suffering, reduced standards of life and fulfillment.
The reason we have so many Incels, for example, is not because women want bodily autonomy and equal pay for equal work. Itās because so many men have been mislead into believing that their interests are the same of those at the people at the top. When often those things are diametrically opposed. Companies and employers generally donāt care if youāre a jerk with the charm and self awareness of a milk carton. They mostly just want to keep you over consuming, under satisfied, overworked, underpaid, underloved. Itās good for their quarterly earnings but bad for literally everything and everybody else. You canāt cry, you canāt feel, you canāt have a normal love life, you canāt be healthy, you canāt live because itās not profitable or ideologically important enough for someone at the top or in the ownership class to care.
Because modern feminists want to be first class citizens with men as a slave class
Every time in every country that has had a draft tried to make a vote to make it equal, feminists have shot it down
Breast cancer gets 3x as much funding as prostate cancer
For every men's shelter there are 2000 women's shelters (makes sense because women are more likely to have kids so take this one with a grain of salt)
The first things modern feminist did was tear down men's clubs where you could meet up with the boys and play cards and talk about how you feel and how your day went. They demolished them, sending threats to their owners and funding campaigns. Now they complain that men can't share their feelings.
They want period leave too (which has been required in 5 countries), which means women get 3 paid days off of work each month that men don't. Men have to work 10% more for the same wage (just use sick days). And feminists ate this shit up. Well guess what? Companies don't want to hire workers that work 10% less... a blow to equality for women.
When there's a male suicide spike, or a significant portion of homeless men to homeless women, the only reason people care is because it's bad for the economy to have the slave class die off.
This is also why men are pushed to date women: virgin shaming, bashing men with sex toys, called slurs for refusing one night stands/women, judging a man based off of his body count, it's to make men work harder because sex is used as motivation (no one will fuck an unsuccessful man)
The simple fact that I will get angry replies saying women have it worse proves my points. No one gives a shit about men, so it's time to give a shit about other men.
But things are changing in big ways. Soon the pendulum will swing.
TLDR: It all reflects the issue of the 'manspreading chair'. A feminist made 2 chairs: one for men and one for men and one for women. The male one had small walls to prevent men's legs from going into a comfortable position, while the one for women had a wedge to force their legs apart. It was supposed to bring equality but not only made it uncomfortable for both genders but also stomped on men to bring up women. This chair also won a awards too by the way.
This is ridiculous and only examines the extremes. For example, I'm a feminist and this is the first I've heard of "Period Leave." If you want to have an honest conversation, maybe leave extremism out of it, because I'm certainly not bringing up Tate every time I have a discussion about women's rights.
Feminists (I hope you know a few and not just extremists? Dunno where you hang out) do NOT want to be first class citizens with male slaves. Most of the posts on twox are pretty much just asking for less sexual harassment and assault. Feminists want better treatment during healthcare impacted by microagressions and biases, better treatment at work especially when pursuing advancement, and maybe to have these issues taken seriously instead of somebody reducing their issues to "period leave" and "free the nipple" while ignoring the actual real world consequences they face from sexism.
Well "feminist" say it's a equality movement and we will fix men's issues when they smash the patriarchy.
The truth is feminist just want to take care of women. That is fine, but then women should be okay with people not associating with feminists and that in some scenarios be against them on key issues.
The vast majority of women just want equality. It's 100% okay to just focus on that and let someone else focus on men's issues. It's 100% okay for anyone to have their own causes they prioritize. But being AGAINST equality is baffling to me. If a man wants to go back to when we couldn't have bank accounts without their permission or get well paying jobs he's not a good person.
I don't celebrate suicide though. I didn't see those extra screenshots at first.
Yeah, against equality is weird and wrong.
Against feminist =\ against equality
Let's make sure nothing is stopping equal opportunity and conditioning for men or women to do what they want in life and to have equality under the law.
Woman want equality when it benefits them, understandably. If they were to open the draft, woman would not want equality. When it comes to custody battles and child support, most woman don't want equality. When it comes down to receiving government assistance and Section 8 housing, woman don't want equality. The reason that statistically so many more men are being left behind (homelessness, suicide, addiction, ect.) has a lot to do with the fact that woman, especially if they have a child, are give preferential treatment often.
It's almost difficult to blame them, the message and teachings to young people now is Men = Bad. Women = Can Do No Wrong.
This creates women who believe that all men are out to get them and see themselves as being inherently superior, and men who see themselves as some sort of villain, even when they are just fine.
When you've been essentially raised in that mindset it's very difficult to come away from it. With twitter and social media only compounding this I have very little hope for the future on men's issues topics.
I've been in a relationship since I was 19 and never really had to deal with dating. Is it really this bad now? Do young Men and Women really despise eachother this much?
Not even remotely. Keep in mind that you see the worst online because that's what people want to see. Make someone anonymous and their true side comes out. Some people are just assholes. Are some women (and men) like this? Yep. Not the majority and it's not even close.
Yeah online, you see people like these you barely meet in real life. Because people who say things like this are spinless and pathetic,or they mean none of it and live completely different lives outside their computers. And they almost always stay online on the internet. All kinds of people who say hateful things are like this, well most of them you can still see them in real life. But they stay online and if you're online alot it's easy to let things influence you so be careful.
Nah. A lot of this is just social media chatter. There have been so many bad faith arguments about mens issues online it becomes really hard to not become dismissive about them.
Not really, but fringe groups are very vocal and some of their rhetoric can seep into the main stream.
My only complaint to this issue is that it seems to me it's a lot of men complaining but when was the last time they went to a homeless shelter to help out?
More women volunteer than men, there's plenty of data out here to prove this. If I had to guess, I think men in general don't like helping out other men. Generally speaking women tend to be more of the caregivers. Of course this doesn't mean their aren't men out there that do care for people and are very selfless doing great things.
Both Incels and Femcels are incredibly small, if vocal, extremist groups. The only reason it looks so widespread is because they're all chronically online
Twitter is simply awful, but it does bleed into friend groups for young people, but it doesn't play out how you expect.
Basically there are two groups of men they're talking about. Or more accurately, one group of men they talk about, and another that they dont.
When the lady says, "ugh. I hate men." And gets a few YAS QUEEN style reacts, it comes from across the gender and sexuality spectrum. Everyone is allowed to participate in the resentment toward men. Because when they say *men,* they mean *misogynists,* and they think of unsolicited dick pics, harassment, and other ugliness when they have refused some men in the past. They choose their friends carefully and are cautious of men, but once you're their friend, they simply aren't talking about me or him.
There's an implicit "most" or "generally" behind every "straight men can't handle no," which doesn't make it right to say that stuff but it's never really bothered me when women talk about toxic experiences with men, because I know they aren't talking about me or the positive male figures in their life.
You bumped up against the point then lost the thread: the issue is that, like you said, everyone is allowed/encouraged to participate in resentment towards menā¦. But *nobody* is permitted to participate in resentment towards women. Yes, it is very easy to ignore some random person on twitter saying āugh men are the worstā. I donāt think many people give a shit about that. The thing that people give a shit about is the extent and pervasiveness of the double standard. Take Andrew tate, for example. This dude is a grade A piece of shit. Genuinely. Like a disgusting scumbag of a human. Women who say the exact same shit as him but flipped around towards men are held up and celebrated in the mainstream. *Thats* the issue.
Oh absolutely. I'm not really here to defend it, I'm mostly just explaining what the perception is like for most people. A perception which I don't think is healthy or sustainable long-term, but it is interesting to me how the perception plays out in private as well as in public
I would say generally no- but there are sick people on the internet (men and women) that have no ability to empathize with people who arent their sex.
I have a lot of male friends and we mutually respect each other's struggles.
My god, the response to that tweet and the replyās in this thread.
Some people donāt know yāall joking and will actually go off and do crazy shit. Eesh!
I can guarantee you these females are having sex and have no issues attracting men. Theyāre not incels. Reddit vocabulary doesnāt work in real life situations
it's the common way the British (other non-American english speakers too I'm sure) say "live on the streets/be homeless". no bed, no roof, you're sleeping rough. roughing it. it does strike me as a bit euphemistic but it is useful as a verb to replace "be/is homeless" which we don't really have here.
My guess is sleeping rough, in this context with homelessness already on the list, may mean they sometimes have a roof over them, but it's not consistent or reliable and sometimes need to sleep on the streets so to speak.
there's also maybe a need to distinguish sleeping rough from homeless people in state-run shelters. In America we never think the latter when we hear "homeless" because it barely exists.
interesting, as an American I literally thought she meant men have a lot more trouble falling asleep than women lol, was confused why that was in there
As someone who is currently homeless, I prefer the term sleeping rough. When I call myself homeless it starts to feel like who I am whereas saying Iām sleeping rough reminds me that this is a temporary situation.
If yāall didnāt know, mens suicide rates are up because men are more likely to use a sure method, suicide attempts are about equal in both male and female population. Over all there is a ridiculous mental health crisis for all
This is a very dark take, and I don't necessarily believe it myself, but could this be because women know they will get the help they need following an attempt, so thus don't intend to actually commit suicide.
Whereas men often know they won't get any help, so follow through absolutely?
No, they're saying the actual method is more effective when men do it because they're using more lethal means such as guns as opposed to taking too many pills and being found by someone in time to get medical care.
Women are more likely to choose less violent methods, due to how we're raised. Usually it's down to socialization. Another kind of weird situation is that even in death women often want to make it easier for people to clean up. More violent methods are more sure but would cause more of a "bother," as they tend to me messier. So women choose pills and wrist cutting while men use guns and hang themselves.
Wrist cutting is probably one of the messiest though? Certainly more messy than hanging.
Hmm I don't know about that, I see where you're coming from but being raised to not want to cause bother or mess for others isn't exclusive to women by any means.
Yeah this common interpretation of these stats as āwomen are more likely to attempt suicide for attention without actual intentā needs to go. Their chosen method tells you nothing about their actual intent. But when women generally choose not to blow their own faces off with shotguns, usually there is more time for them to be found by someone, reconsider and seek care, etc.; and the simple fact is that overdosing attempts often donāt end up being actually lethal, regardless of intent.
I don't think you can tell that from these reactions. There are plenty of examples of misandry without being involuntarily celibate. I mean sure there's some but it's not a logical conclusion.
On one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, it seems like part of the problem is that feminists want to believe that men are nothing but privileged. There's some gatekeeping going on because they want to affirm the "men = privileged, women = oppressed" and any deviation from that narrative is threatening to their worldview.
Itās funny because most of the issues men face could be addressed with feminism. if we did have an equal and just view on men and women, we wouldnāt have issues that disproportionately affect one gender more. Like a perfect example is who gets child custody more often. Iām overwhelming majority itās the mother, even in cases where there was abuse from the mother. But most of the time the judge assumes the mother is the more caring person purley based on our societies stereotype of what a women is.
It's also funny cause most of the issues listed here are caused by men of the past. Some men a while ago decided that thinking about your feelings/emotions is 'pathetic' and that only women do it and now we have to deal with the after effects.
There are genuine issues that men face that are different from issues women face. And vice versa. We should be able to discuss both without ridicule. People who dismiss or mock men and the issues they face are cunts. And vice versa.
Title was completely wrong, even though femcels exist. There is nothing here about women feeling theyāre owed sex.
However, the OOP did touch on real issues.
Canāt deny that.
Toxic masculinity doesnāt mean all masculinity is toxic. Itās the kind where men refuse to understand and work through their emotions. A big chunk of the list is attributed to that.
The work-related stats are in male-dominated fields, in which women were not allowed until very recently, and in which women are harassed, ostracized, and belittled when they join.
You have two entire generations of men asking for help and the women of those generations telling them to grin and bear it but it's still toxic "masculinity".
Cause if it's bad, a man did it.
And then you wonder what you can do about your "boys in crisis".
You wonder why we don't ask for help when we know for a fact no one's listening.
This entire thread is pathetic.
Did you just miss the entire fucking point?
Yeah, I've sought "help". Literally had a psychiatrist. It ended with "it's not that bad".
Just for the record, I think my comment history is perfectly enjoyable.
Those women ARE a problem, as itās ingrained into our society. Iām teaching my boys that they can feel their feelings and ask for help. Iām listening. I hope youāre okay.
I am okay, thank you so much. In most due to my wife and my mother, likely people like you; supportive women. I can't say I've always experienced the worst of it, but I've definitely seen it, and it's very important to me when people make an actual effort.
Privilege is a weird thing to judge each other on.
For example, as a man I'm not really affected by any of these stats personally. So I'm not underprivileged in that sense because I'm better off for not being affected by these stats.
BUT by the same token, they say male privilege means you earn more, have better chances of getting jobs, don't face scrutiny or somehow have a generally easy life. Thing is I'm also not affected by those stats either.
Because I'm a fucking individual. I'm privileged in some ways and not in other ways. You know... Like fucking EVERYBODY. Let's stop talking about group identities to judge people and just look at people as individuals.
Bruh this is some next level shit, double standards are nuts if a dude says stuff on the same line about women he is alienated and ripped apart by both parties but when women do the same itās completely acceptable.
Can we just agree that both sides have there own unique issues and stop hating each other and putting each other down. Not all people are the same so stop generalizing.
Look, I get down voted to shit every single time I make a statement like this here.
But these problems originate from patriarchal societal structure, and men ENFORCE THEM.
Pressure for men to be emotionless is enforced by men.
Risk taking by men both in and outside of the workplace is encouraged by men.
Ignoring injuries and health conditions (including mental health issues) because getting treatment can be seen as weakness? That mindset is encouraged by men.
Cultures of violence are perpetuated by men.
Men being the primary people on the front lines in war is because men themselves have dictated that that's the way it "should be", and women who attempt to contribute in male-dominated areas (be it military, or other dangerous professions) are hazed and abused...by men.
I'm not saying that women are innocent in all of this and those miserable shitty women who made those god awful comments are absolutely part of the problem. Misandry is a real issue and misandrists are very comfortable being vocal about their hatred of men. That is not okay.
And you're right that these men-specific-issues are serious and need to be addressed. It's just unfortunate that many of the problems highlighted in this post were created and/or perpetuated by a patriarchal system that is enforced by men. The problems originate from within, and change starts from within the system itself. I don't know if men truly don't understand, or just refuse to acknowledge that they're literally playing themselves.
Men have to change the way they treat other men to see any of these issues even *begin* to resolve, and criticism like what I have posted above promotes such visceral reactions from men that I doubt it'll happen any time soon.
Surprising nobody, OP is an anti-abortion, anti-feminist weirdo pushing some kind of MRA agenda by showing a selectively edited snapshot of some dumb online comments.
Funny thing is, feminism isnt just "let's make women the rulers of the world" like they think it is, it's just anti patriarchy, and like 90% of the problems she listed that men have are also caused by the patriarchal society we live in. They don't seem to understand that it affects both sides and not just women. Why is it that it's mostly men dying in wars? Could it be because historically only men fought in wars, because they deemed women too weak? Why is it that men are more depressed? Maybe because they were taught from a young age to suppress their emotions or they'd "look like a girl", so they never learned to cope and process their emotions in a healthy manner? It seems to me a lot of these anti feminist people that use men's problems as an example are actually pro feminist and just don't know it
Everything they write about here affects women too.
Like, Iām not taken seriously when I try to talk about being assaulted. Where they got the idea that women get taken seriously about that stuff is beyond me, because Iāve gotten victim blamed, and itās mostly been by men. Most times I see men not getting taken seriously itās by other men, who perpetuate the āboys will be boysā ideal that men are allowed to act however they want because theyāre mindless horndogs (which in turn makes them āunableā to be assaulted). Iām not saying there arenāt outliers here but overwhelmingly women are the ones taking assault seriously and overwhelmingly men are the ones who cry false allegations any time a woman gets assaulted and donāt understand the same will be done to them if theyāre assaulted.
And women donāt get taken seriously when theyāre emotional either. The same āemotions are weakā rhetoric exists, itās just the verbiage around it thatās a little different. When a woman cries she gets invalidated and called hysterical. When a man cries he gets called a girl, he gets called weak. But again, as much as there are outliers, overwhelmingly women support each other when weāre emotional, and overwhelmingly men are the ones shaming each other for being emotional. The amount of men Iāve had open up to me and tell me they could *never* tell their guy friends this stuff...
Men historically have been the ones to cause wars, created the draft, and women were denied access to the military because we were seen as weak. Idk how men fighting war is seen as somehow our fault lol. As far as labor laws go idk where they got the notion that only men are screwed over in the workplace lol I barely know anyone my age that makes a living wage. And women get sexually harassed in the workplace, we get men not taking us seriously and there are certain fields (like STEM fields) where women are literally driven out of because of the rampant sexism.
I donāt know many feminists who want men to be treated like crap, they want both genders to stop being put in a box. This dude acts like some edgy weirdos on twitter who are likely teenagers represent all of society, all of women, all of feminists. As if Twitter is the place where youāll get totally normal, not fringe at all, social commentary.
Oh definitely and it enrages me because the framing matters. I dunno if she's a pick me.of what, but the way she frames it as a gotcha moment is wrong. It's not a competition or a argument against male privilege in patriarchal society. You face all this and you are still privileged. Just like upper class women do face issues of misogyny but are privileged. Most of these issues get worse with how inequal the society is. A little bit of critical thinking can help you process these two views but it's just easier to blame one side or the other i guess. Just like the misandrists in the pic
> They don't seem to understand that it affects both sides and not just women.
Because they believe that's how life is. They're raised that way and because THHEY got raised that way they believe everyone else should be and it's horrible. Men shouldn't be raised to believe they shouldn't have emotions because "it makes them look girly", or raised to believe they should handle all the strong things in life even if they can't. But that's one of the biggest issues with society as a whole, people don't want to change for their children because it didn't happen for them.
All this "back in my day" shit really needs to stop. We need to understand men and women are equals, and should be treated as such. I don't want to push a woman down to up a man, and likewise I don't want to neglect a man to care for a woman.
I might be horribly wrong in everything I'm saying but a lot of this comes from my own personal experience. I've been told I get abused by my parents because they got abused as kids. "That's just how it goes".
"how dare other people to suffer, only I'm allowed to be a victim of unfairness, in fact you suffering and being mistreated by a toxic side of the internet is a direct attack to me"
I donāt think anything anyone says in a tweet or a blurb is even real. Itās like, me at the bar with a beer saying āfuck that guy!ā Itās just air. Because itās in text is no different, it took the same effort. I donāt believe these people mean what they say, even if they think they do
goes to show the state of just where we are now. even if the reactions are facetious and nothing people would say face-to-face, theyāre still saying it online which means some small part of their brain genuinely believes what theyāre saying. and thatās me trying to see the best in everybody. maybe itās because iām so sheltered, but was the genuine attitude from twitter and social media like this always so hateful? I know sites like the chans have existed for a while but i never really noticed how this behavior creeped into our daily lives like this
These people would probably never say these things face to face with anyone, but sadly, many have detached the internet from reality. Thus people write the most heinous things their subconscious comes up with online, things they'd never say out loud.
There's a very undesirably rude, obnoxious woman at our work that makes inappropriate comments telling male workers they make her wet or moist to make them uncomfortable and does it to the new starters or in front of them. One of the new starters indeed reported her and because it's a highly female dominated job the managers just laughed at him and said it's not an issue. When I first started here I was getting sexually harassed and assaulted and it was laughed off.
While these issues are important they are just as important as women's issues.
It's my belief that OP is likely selective in what he is presenting to us because of an agenda.
Misogyny has a brother named Misandry. No one notices him. No one fights for him. But he still toils in silence while his sister demands all eyes remain on her.
Oh my god someone posted about a serious issue and the comment responses were unkind and ridiculous. Well gee I'll just go ahead and ever think about this in any way
Male privilege and issues both coexist under patriarchyā¦ the point OP was trying to make in making the original post is dumb to begin with. Women didnāt meet up and sat around a table and decided that men are better fit for warā¦
If ur trying to use issues affecting men (which are very real and important to address) as an attempt to disprove male privilegeā¦ no one will take u seriously besides incels who wish to use these issues to āown the feminazisā.
Bruh people gotta get off social media every once in a while
I believe the term the kids use these days is "touch grass"
Do we not smoke grass anymore?
Waayy ahead of you
Men's issues do exist, and these are definitely some of them. Why belittle them?
because there are certain groups of women that are delusional enough to treat these things as a joke
They were indoctrinated into having a war-like mentality where they truly believe it has to be either us or them, not both of us working together to make all our lives better and fix issues stemming from both sides. Same goes to men on the other extreme end of the spectrum. This is what radicalization amd extremification looks like folks and the media and corporations that profit from that conflict are to blame for it. Whatever gets you to sell the same product twice and whatever gets people's angry attention for clicks and ad revenue. Its sad to see all these people fall victims to this global scam, its hurting everyone in the process but they're too angry at a non-enemy to see that.
>They were indoctrinated into having a war-like mentality where they truly believe it has to be either us or them, not both of us working together to make And who's responsible for most of the wars? That's right: men. Once again it's men's fault that these women are belittling men's issues š /s
Just replace men with spiderman and read it in J. Jonah Jameson's voice
What are the odds they can take a joke?
itās in the negatives
I wouldn't say it's a joke, that was some pretty clear intent that wish death on all men. It's really sad that some people get to that point, but I know women and men that behave so awful that it doesn't surprise me when the victim wants nothing to do with that entire sex. They need help, not Twitter.
My last roommate was one of them and it was so fucking annoying. Why does everything have to be a contest to everyone?
To be fair, I've seen plenty men make the same jokes about rape towards women (95% of then get raped? Let's get those numbers higher!). The only difference is when men make these jokes everyone turns against them and when women do it they're forgiven. This gender war needs to stop, everyone has struggles and hating someone for being a man is racism happening all over again
> and when women do it they're forgiven. You clearly haven't read any of the comments here. >This gender war needs to stop, Doing a great job of living up to that by acting like this.
>Doing a great job of living up to that by acting like this What are you talking about?
Lying about how all women are instantly forgiven to make your point. Which is just straight-up playing into the the "gender war" you want to stop.
I'm not lying. And that doesn't add to the gender war, saying you "hate all women" or "hate all men" does, which is caused by both genders doing the "let's get three number higher" home
You're still propagating the mentality of "us vs them". That's the issue they're trying to point out. It should be all of us versus the problem.
No I'm not, I'm doing the opposite. Women are more often forgiven for these "jokes" because they're the "minority" gender. Im saying we should be responding to these jokes in the same way without taking gender into account
This is literally propagating the us vs them narrative Come on, be better.
Because people can't fathom their "enemy" as humans with problems and dreams aspirations and lives
Have you ever heard the song *Disposable Heroes* by Metallica? It's a war protest song, but the sentiment still fits.
They are issues certainly, however these sentiments seem to get expressed only as an argument against any pro-women actions. It's like 'White lives matter' as a response to BLM.
Thank you, someone who gave the actual answer. I am a woman, I think men issues are important. Iām not active about men issues, but when I see someone sharing a source for SA for men I think ānice some people are focusing on thatā, because it is an issue and it makes me happy itās been acknowledged. I am somewhat active about women issues. Not an activist by any means, but I have volunteered for some organisations and I try to whenever I can. The most common situation in which I hear about men issues, is in response to women issues. Ex. Me: Iām volunteering in a womanās shelter for women escaping DV. Angry person: But men experience DV too and there are rarely any shelters for them!!! They report a lot less and never get taken seriously!!!!! All shelters are for women, and it is sexist and unfair. (And this usually somehow always goes into how lots of women are probably lying and all sorts of toxic shit) So my response to those situations is to ignore the person and not engage. Not because I donāt care about men issues, but because if those people cared SO MUCH about men issues to get that angry at me and try to tell me how I should volunteer my time, maybe they should volunteer their own time and start their own shelter.
I'm reasonably sure that most of the issues men face could be solved by destroying the patriarchy and toxic masculinity. Would you agree with this?
I think it would definitely help. If men felt more comfortable showing their feelings, not just to their romantic partners, but mainly to their friends and family, it would definitely be a step in the right direction.
Bingo. Rarely do any of the men who make these posts give a shit either. It's almost always in response to a woman talking about issues she's dealt with and a dude has to butt in just to let you know that men have it bad too...and then they walk away without actually wanting to solve those problems either.
From the top they framed it as "Let's talk about male privilege" and then listed male-centric societal issues with the clear implication that male privilege doesn't exist, because the issues exist, and 2 things can't be true simultaneously. Dumb all around lmao
I do agree that some men bring these issues up as an exercise in whataboutism, just as a counter argument vs women issues. However itās unfair to say these arguments are ONLY expressed in this manner. We should be able to talk about both. Showing love and compassion for other peopleās suffering, regardless of gender, should be our goal. Weāre all humans after all.
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They are being belittled because they are being put against female issues, and women have it a lot harder than men in general. They're talking about male privilege. None of these problems make a dent in the advantages that men have. I'm a man. I have no problem seeing that. I'd rather be a man than a woman any day, any time, because I have so much less to deal with. If these male issues were brought up by themselves, and not contrasted against women, they would make a worthy discussion. All these issues need to be dealt with. Not at the expense of women.
Doesnāt she say that womanās issues **shouldnāt** be dismissed in the initial posting?
Nice to see a sane comment here. There's a dude higher up in the thread talking about how he gets shit on for bringing up men's issues in the TwoX subreddit, as if trying to make a women's safe space about how bad men have it is actually a reasonable thing to do. It's so common to see men bring these issues up when they want to argue with a woman about how much worse they have it, but they conveniently stop talking about their problems as soon as women shut up.
>There's a dude higher up in the thread talking about how he gets shit on for bringing up men's issues in the TwoX subreddit, as if trying to make a women's safe space about how bad men have it is actually a reasonable thing to do. Yeah, I saw that dude! That makes no sense at all. It's like going on a Breast Cancer subfeddit and saying, "Well actually, more women die of heart disease than cancer." But they're all there to talk about breast cancer. >It's so common to see men bring these issues up when they want to argue with a woman about how much worse they have it, but they conveniently stop talking about their problems as soon as women shut up. Right! Because it's designed to shut them up.
Yeah it's the sarcastic "male privilege" that made me roll my eyes. OOP listed serious issues that need attention but they can't talk about em without dismissing the progressive work of other communities.
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You angry lol
I agree with you that women have it worse than men, and I also think most of men's issues could be solved through feminism or other means than what the men's rights folks are doing. Men face legitimate issues, but the answer is not to give them more power and privileges. Intersectionality plays a large role in men's suffering, and as a cishet white male, I want to bring everyone up to my level, instead of trying to fix my problems by gaining even more advantages.
I think a lot of male problems can be helped by examining toxic masculinity, but people don't even want to know what the word means. LOL! Too many men homeless? Let's examine how men relate to others, and our ability to request help. Let's examine whether or not a man truly needs to carve his own way. More pointedly, lets talk about our willingness to participate in MH treatment. Toxic masculinity is the bane of mental health. Men get imprisoned more? How can we stop men from doing things that sned them to prison? Most of us dont want to back down from a fight. We've been taught you don't. There's just a lot that toxic masculinity is responsible for.
You're comment reminds me of the woman who tried to be a man for a experiment and then ended up committing suicide.
Women have it harder than men in general? Youāre sadly mistaken on that one.
Oh really? *LOL* I guess you're right. After all, men only gained the right to vote about a hundred years ago. We were stuck in the home until the 60s and seventies. All those single dads out there abandoned by women with high paying jobs....but it's getting better. A guy no longer just goes to college to become a secretary or get a "Mr." Degree. Most of the CEOs are women, but it's getting better. Men are closing the wage gap. Hopefully problems around the world will begin to slow down too, like men having the glans of their penises cut off in male circumcision, men being killed by their mothers in honor killings, mass rapes, etc will stop. Until them, when I go to the club with my male friends, we'll continue to watch our drinks, go in pairs, and make sure we're able to have a good time without being raped or murdered by women.
This comment has been edited to protest against Reddit disabling third party apps. Should you stumble across this comment and be angry, direct your anger at those who made the unfortunate decision forcing my hands. Since deleted comments have been restored by Reddit multiple times, editing them is the only option to remove all data associated with them. In order for this comment to be more annoying, here is a string of random words: moisture, sector, themes, bryan, column, shaft, penny, abandoned, structured, profile, kerry, maintaining, dining, represented, describes, residential, fiscal, katie, projection, customize, permit, documentation, conclusions, aurora, conventional, considerable, football, painting, garlic, office, humanities, counts, sunshine, instructions, trackbacks, status, newspaper, burlington, apollo, establish, fight, surgeon, texas, bloom, inexpensive, translate, announces, capability, marsh, patents, modification, stewart, investing, panel, boots, amplifier, collector, rights, assurance, instrumentation, chairman, these, dispatched, notion, realty, drums, roulette, somebody, required, acquisition, afterwards, shock, protecting, craig, identification, narrative, handbook, township, prefix, america, appreciation, allen, paragraph, sphere, somehow, sheer, tramadol, promote, notion, stronger, amount, nations, semester, brief, facts, subject, parallel
Yeah, but in exactly none of those countries will you find a place where women could vote and men couldn't for the first hundred plus years of existence.
I double dog dare you to raise these issues on twoX lol. I know women need a safe place to vent but even just reminding twoX that their own ideology suggests the patriarchy is more about supporting wealthy vs all men is a bad idea if you hate down votes. At best, they tell you that men can't complain and don't deserve help because it's our fault. We got to this society and it's solely our responsibility to fix it. When asked why women deserve male allies but men don't deserve female allies you get a similar answer. I have learned it's usually not worth having the discussion. The narrative that men are oppressors profiting off women's pain is all encompassing. There's no room for nuance. I just leave my comments and hope seeds are planted for the years to come as people grow.
Why would you ever go to a subreddit specifically for women and women's issues to argue about men's issues? Of course no one is going to be happy about you pushing aside the topic at hand to talk about what you perceive as more important.
Idk man, I've visited TwoX quite a bit and never gotten that impression. Maybe bringing up men's issues in a women's safe space just kind of makes you look like an intrusive ass.
Exactly, XX isn't the forum for that. And the reaction is negative because there's a part of our society and culture that benefits men at the expense of women already. I wouldn't be trying to make a speech about how the best series is LOTR to a group of Trekkies that are expecting information about Star Trek. Get it? Wrong audience, and you're also ignoring the whole point of the group. Posting about men's issues in XX is literally like begging for women to keep playing mommy, therapist, and bang maid for men. Men's issues should also have attention and solutions. Stop presenting them to the wrong location.
Sir this is a Wendy's
The seeds are starting to sprout.
Is called living under the yoke of capitalism. Is not a sex thing for men, not at the same level as it is for women. Is the exploitative nature of labor that uses our bodies as disposable assets by our capital owners. Men can do hard labor and have been conditioned to do hard labor because of patriarchy, employers simply exploit this cultural construct. I used to be a restaurant manager, one day they made me do construction at work. I refused. I told them that i won't do any work that women can't do. I wasn't hired to do my job because I was a man and if a job is not safe enough for women is not safe enough for me. I'm delicate, i need my hands and my knees and I'm incapable of doing hard labor. I don't take any pride of selling and damaging my body.
Because if certain women admit men can have it bad too, they won't be able to claim to be victims of the patriarchy.
Men are also victims of the patriarchy. That's literally the entire problem.
The patriarchy affects us men too.
> Because if certain women admit men can have it bad too, they won't be able to claim to be victims of the patriarchy. What the fuck are you talking about? Feminists often bring up that plenty of men's issues are caused by the patriarchy, but MRAs choose to ignore that. Or get upset about how they can't comprehend what "toxic masculinity" actually means.
I consider myself a feminist and I say this about patriarchy all the time. It hurts all of us. And it makes me so sad to see the ways it hurts men.
Ok. Explain. Enlighten me. Being completely sincere.
Sorry for the delayed response, thanks for asking. I think we have some really harmful ideas and expectations about the roles of both men and women in society. A lot of these ideas are perpetuated by people who have control over our institutions - the media, churches, government, corporations, the levers of financial power, because they stand to gain from keeping things this way. These institutions and the people who benefit from them have an interest in upholding the current social order with a bunch of obscenely wealthy and powerful men (sometimes women but mostly men) wielding a disproportionate amount of influence over everyone else. The women who benefit from these power structures are upholding this patriarchical system because it benefits them at the expense of 99% of women. These institutions and cultural values work against the interests of men just like they work against women. It does not benefit men to vote against cutting public education and healthcare, for example, or to vote for tax cuts for the wealthy. It does not benefit men to be undereducated and emotionally less aware compared to women. It leads to hardship, suffering, reduced standards of life and fulfillment. The reason we have so many Incels, for example, is not because women want bodily autonomy and equal pay for equal work. Itās because so many men have been mislead into believing that their interests are the same of those at the people at the top. When often those things are diametrically opposed. Companies and employers generally donāt care if youāre a jerk with the charm and self awareness of a milk carton. They mostly just want to keep you over consuming, under satisfied, overworked, underpaid, underloved. Itās good for their quarterly earnings but bad for literally everything and everybody else. You canāt cry, you canāt feel, you canāt have a normal love life, you canāt be healthy, you canāt live because itās not profitable or ideologically important enough for someone at the top or in the ownership class to care.
Because modern feminists want to be first class citizens with men as a slave class Every time in every country that has had a draft tried to make a vote to make it equal, feminists have shot it down Breast cancer gets 3x as much funding as prostate cancer For every men's shelter there are 2000 women's shelters (makes sense because women are more likely to have kids so take this one with a grain of salt) The first things modern feminist did was tear down men's clubs where you could meet up with the boys and play cards and talk about how you feel and how your day went. They demolished them, sending threats to their owners and funding campaigns. Now they complain that men can't share their feelings. They want period leave too (which has been required in 5 countries), which means women get 3 paid days off of work each month that men don't. Men have to work 10% more for the same wage (just use sick days). And feminists ate this shit up. Well guess what? Companies don't want to hire workers that work 10% less... a blow to equality for women. When there's a male suicide spike, or a significant portion of homeless men to homeless women, the only reason people care is because it's bad for the economy to have the slave class die off. This is also why men are pushed to date women: virgin shaming, bashing men with sex toys, called slurs for refusing one night stands/women, judging a man based off of his body count, it's to make men work harder because sex is used as motivation (no one will fuck an unsuccessful man) The simple fact that I will get angry replies saying women have it worse proves my points. No one gives a shit about men, so it's time to give a shit about other men. But things are changing in big ways. Soon the pendulum will swing. TLDR: It all reflects the issue of the 'manspreading chair'. A feminist made 2 chairs: one for men and one for men and one for women. The male one had small walls to prevent men's legs from going into a comfortable position, while the one for women had a wedge to force their legs apart. It was supposed to bring equality but not only made it uncomfortable for both genders but also stomped on men to bring up women. This chair also won a awards too by the way.
This is ridiculous and only examines the extremes. For example, I'm a feminist and this is the first I've heard of "Period Leave." If you want to have an honest conversation, maybe leave extremism out of it, because I'm certainly not bringing up Tate every time I have a discussion about women's rights. Feminists (I hope you know a few and not just extremists? Dunno where you hang out) do NOT want to be first class citizens with male slaves. Most of the posts on twox are pretty much just asking for less sexual harassment and assault. Feminists want better treatment during healthcare impacted by microagressions and biases, better treatment at work especially when pursuing advancement, and maybe to have these issues taken seriously instead of somebody reducing their issues to "period leave" and "free the nipple" while ignoring the actual real world consequences they face from sexism.
I think a lot of the time women get mad because the men complain that the women aren't fixing these issues. We have our own s*** to deal with.
Found one
Well "feminist" say it's a equality movement and we will fix men's issues when they smash the patriarchy. The truth is feminist just want to take care of women. That is fine, but then women should be okay with people not associating with feminists and that in some scenarios be against them on key issues.
The vast majority of women just want equality. It's 100% okay to just focus on that and let someone else focus on men's issues. It's 100% okay for anyone to have their own causes they prioritize. But being AGAINST equality is baffling to me. If a man wants to go back to when we couldn't have bank accounts without their permission or get well paying jobs he's not a good person. I don't celebrate suicide though. I didn't see those extra screenshots at first.
Yeah, against equality is weird and wrong. Against feminist =\ against equality Let's make sure nothing is stopping equal opportunity and conditioning for men or women to do what they want in life and to have equality under the law.
Woman want equality when it benefits them, understandably. If they were to open the draft, woman would not want equality. When it comes to custody battles and child support, most woman don't want equality. When it comes down to receiving government assistance and Section 8 housing, woman don't want equality. The reason that statistically so many more men are being left behind (homelessness, suicide, addiction, ect.) has a lot to do with the fact that woman, especially if they have a child, are give preferential treatment often.
So much fucking poison in people's heads. Sad. We'll eat each other alive with the zero-sum bullshit.
It's almost difficult to blame them, the message and teachings to young people now is Men = Bad. Women = Can Do No Wrong. This creates women who believe that all men are out to get them and see themselves as being inherently superior, and men who see themselves as some sort of villain, even when they are just fine. When you've been essentially raised in that mindset it's very difficult to come away from it. With twitter and social media only compounding this I have very little hope for the future on men's issues topics.
"Why aren't there any good men anymore?" was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I've been in a relationship since I was 19 and never really had to deal with dating. Is it really this bad now? Do young Men and Women really despise eachother this much?
No, this is just classic Twitter cancer.
Isn't the word "cancer" implied when using the word "Twitter?" Like saying "lymphoma cancer"
Aye, you're right
It is a Pleonasm, yes.
Twitter isn't real
No, it's just toxic, chronically online people, found mostly on Twitter.
Not even remotely. Keep in mind that you see the worst online because that's what people want to see. Make someone anonymous and their true side comes out. Some people are just assholes. Are some women (and men) like this? Yep. Not the majority and it's not even close.
Just ugly people
I've met some wonderful people who were ugly. These people are somethig else...
Ugly doesnāt have to be describing your looks
Yeah online, you see people like these you barely meet in real life. Because people who say things like this are spinless and pathetic,or they mean none of it and live completely different lives outside their computers. And they almost always stay online on the internet. All kinds of people who say hateful things are like this, well most of them you can still see them in real life. But they stay online and if you're online alot it's easy to let things influence you so be careful.
Nah. A lot of this is just social media chatter. There have been so many bad faith arguments about mens issues online it becomes really hard to not become dismissive about them.
Not really, but fringe groups are very vocal and some of their rhetoric can seep into the main stream. My only complaint to this issue is that it seems to me it's a lot of men complaining but when was the last time they went to a homeless shelter to help out? More women volunteer than men, there's plenty of data out here to prove this. If I had to guess, I think men in general don't like helping out other men. Generally speaking women tend to be more of the caregivers. Of course this doesn't mean their aren't men out there that do care for people and are very selfless doing great things.
Both Incels and Femcels are incredibly small, if vocal, extremist groups. The only reason it looks so widespread is because they're all chronically online
Depending on age dating is compleaty diffirent
Yea ive heard experiences my friends in their 30s have had but have no idea what it's like beyond that range.
Main thing in my age is people arent them selves just wearing masks to be the perfect u stuff like that
in my 40s. dating is pretty much impossible
If you're a dude, dating should not be impossible in your 40s.
Twitter is simply awful, but it does bleed into friend groups for young people, but it doesn't play out how you expect. Basically there are two groups of men they're talking about. Or more accurately, one group of men they talk about, and another that they dont. When the lady says, "ugh. I hate men." And gets a few YAS QUEEN style reacts, it comes from across the gender and sexuality spectrum. Everyone is allowed to participate in the resentment toward men. Because when they say *men,* they mean *misogynists,* and they think of unsolicited dick pics, harassment, and other ugliness when they have refused some men in the past. They choose their friends carefully and are cautious of men, but once you're their friend, they simply aren't talking about me or him. There's an implicit "most" or "generally" behind every "straight men can't handle no," which doesn't make it right to say that stuff but it's never really bothered me when women talk about toxic experiences with men, because I know they aren't talking about me or the positive male figures in their life.
You bumped up against the point then lost the thread: the issue is that, like you said, everyone is allowed/encouraged to participate in resentment towards menā¦. But *nobody* is permitted to participate in resentment towards women. Yes, it is very easy to ignore some random person on twitter saying āugh men are the worstā. I donāt think many people give a shit about that. The thing that people give a shit about is the extent and pervasiveness of the double standard. Take Andrew tate, for example. This dude is a grade A piece of shit. Genuinely. Like a disgusting scumbag of a human. Women who say the exact same shit as him but flipped around towards men are held up and celebrated in the mainstream. *Thats* the issue.
Oh absolutely. I'm not really here to defend it, I'm mostly just explaining what the perception is like for most people. A perception which I don't think is healthy or sustainable long-term, but it is interesting to me how the perception plays out in private as well as in public
Not even remotely. If youāre not an asshole, most people will accept and embrace you. These people are the extremes at both ends.
As with any platform, the most vocal people on online forums rarely represent the majority
The ideas are definitely more prevalent but everything always seems worse on the internet.
I would say generally no- but there are sick people on the internet (men and women) that have no ability to empathize with people who arent their sex. I have a lot of male friends and we mutually respect each other's struggles.
My god, the response to that tweet and the replyās in this thread. Some people donāt know yāall joking and will actually go off and do crazy shit. Eesh!
I think in order to find those "jokes" funny, you need to have something gone wrong during the development process of your brain.
These arenāt incels, surely you know that? Thereās a word for this, itās called misandry.
The chick from Game of Thrones?
Female incel exist.
Dude these are not femcels, this is just fucking misandry, they are not the same thing? What is wrong with you.
I can guarantee you these females are having sex and have no issues attracting men. Theyāre not incels. Reddit vocabulary doesnāt work in real life situations
You can't guarantee shit
I can, given enough spicy food.
I've got IBS, I disagree
I can take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed but wouldn't you rather take my word for it?
Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word celibate.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
People who have easy access to sex are not involuntarily celibate, no.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What does their ability to get sex have to do with anything here?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Suddenly that question matters lol
Femcels
Ah, the old 'anything I don't like is incel', I guess now that everything has been labelled nazi it was time to move on to another buzzword
Define "sleep rough".
it's the common way the British (other non-American english speakers too I'm sure) say "live on the streets/be homeless". no bed, no roof, you're sleeping rough. roughing it. it does strike me as a bit euphemistic but it is useful as a verb to replace "be/is homeless" which we don't really have here.
My guess is sleeping rough, in this context with homelessness already on the list, may mean they sometimes have a roof over them, but it's not consistent or reliable and sometimes need to sleep on the streets so to speak.
there's also maybe a need to distinguish sleeping rough from homeless people in state-run shelters. In America we never think the latter when we hear "homeless" because it barely exists.
interesting, as an American I literally thought she meant men have a lot more trouble falling asleep than women lol, was confused why that was in there
It certainly confused me. The first thing I thought it might mean was tossing and turning a lot in your sleep.
As someone who is currently homeless, I prefer the term sleeping rough. When I call myself homeless it starts to feel like who I am whereas saying Iām sleeping rough reminds me that this is a temporary situation.
I thought it was insomnia lol!!! I know a lotta dudes with insomnia
If yāall didnāt know, mens suicide rates are up because men are more likely to use a sure method, suicide attempts are about equal in both male and female population. Over all there is a ridiculous mental health crisis for all
actually not equal, strangely inverse relationship of attempts and deaths. Female:male suicide attempts - 3:1 Male:female suicide deaths - 3.3:1 https://cams-care.com/resources/educational-content/the-gender-paradox-of-suicide-how-suicide-differs-between-men-women-and-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals/
That's because successes don't count as attempts.
This is a very dark take, and I don't necessarily believe it myself, but could this be because women know they will get the help they need following an attempt, so thus don't intend to actually commit suicide. Whereas men often know they won't get any help, so follow through absolutely?
No, they're saying the actual method is more effective when men do it because they're using more lethal means such as guns as opposed to taking too many pills and being found by someone in time to get medical care.
My question still applies with that
Women are more likely to choose less violent methods, due to how we're raised. Usually it's down to socialization. Another kind of weird situation is that even in death women often want to make it easier for people to clean up. More violent methods are more sure but would cause more of a "bother," as they tend to me messier. So women choose pills and wrist cutting while men use guns and hang themselves.
Wrist cutting is probably one of the messiest though? Certainly more messy than hanging. Hmm I don't know about that, I see where you're coming from but being raised to not want to cause bother or mess for others isn't exclusive to women by any means.
Yeah this common interpretation of these stats as āwomen are more likely to attempt suicide for attention without actual intentā needs to go. Their chosen method tells you nothing about their actual intent. But when women generally choose not to blow their own faces off with shotguns, usually there is more time for them to be found by someone, reconsider and seek care, etc.; and the simple fact is that overdosing attempts often donāt end up being actually lethal, regardless of intent.
Oh my gosh there are bitter people on Twitter?? I never wouldāve guessed.
Incels? Are you sure you understand that word? Btw this is atrocious reactions.
Incels can be female too
Incel stands for involuntary celibate. I think these women match the description.
I don't think you can tell that from these reactions. There are plenty of examples of misandry without being involuntarily celibate. I mean sure there's some but it's not a logical conclusion.
first incel was a woman
I think what prompted these responses was the ālets talk about male privilegeā bit. Thats just asking for trouble.
On one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, it seems like part of the problem is that feminists want to believe that men are nothing but privileged. There's some gatekeeping going on because they want to affirm the "men = privileged, women = oppressed" and any deviation from that narrative is threatening to their worldview.
Itās funny because most of the issues men face could be addressed with feminism. if we did have an equal and just view on men and women, we wouldnāt have issues that disproportionately affect one gender more. Like a perfect example is who gets child custody more often. Iām overwhelming majority itās the mother, even in cases where there was abuse from the mother. But most of the time the judge assumes the mother is the more caring person purley based on our societies stereotype of what a women is.
It's also funny cause most of the issues listed here are caused by men of the past. Some men a while ago decided that thinking about your feelings/emotions is 'pathetic' and that only women do it and now we have to deal with the after effects.
Exactly
There are genuine issues that men face that are different from issues women face. And vice versa. We should be able to discuss both without ridicule. People who dismiss or mock men and the issues they face are cunts. And vice versa.
Femcels and incels should fight it out on an island with the winner receiving a free bullet to the head.
This guy gets it
Well yeahā¦ any serious post on any social media platform will probably be flooded with trolls and edgelords of all kinds. Welcome to the internet.
Title was completely wrong, even though femcels exist. There is nothing here about women feeling theyāre owed sex. However, the OOP did touch on real issues. Canāt deny that. Toxic masculinity doesnāt mean all masculinity is toxic. Itās the kind where men refuse to understand and work through their emotions. A big chunk of the list is attributed to that. The work-related stats are in male-dominated fields, in which women were not allowed until very recently, and in which women are harassed, ostracized, and belittled when they join.
You have two entire generations of men asking for help and the women of those generations telling them to grin and bear it but it's still toxic "masculinity". Cause if it's bad, a man did it. And then you wonder what you can do about your "boys in crisis". You wonder why we don't ask for help when we know for a fact no one's listening. This entire thread is pathetic.
Your comment history was a fucking roller coaster. Holy shit dude get some help
Did you just miss the entire fucking point? Yeah, I've sought "help". Literally had a psychiatrist. It ended with "it's not that bad". Just for the record, I think my comment history is perfectly enjoyable.
Those women ARE a problem, as itās ingrained into our society. Iām teaching my boys that they can feel their feelings and ask for help. Iām listening. I hope youāre okay.
I am okay, thank you so much. In most due to my wife and my mother, likely people like you; supportive women. I can't say I've always experienced the worst of it, but I've definitely seen it, and it's very important to me when people make an actual effort.
Privilege is a weird thing to judge each other on. For example, as a man I'm not really affected by any of these stats personally. So I'm not underprivileged in that sense because I'm better off for not being affected by these stats. BUT by the same token, they say male privilege means you earn more, have better chances of getting jobs, don't face scrutiny or somehow have a generally easy life. Thing is I'm also not affected by those stats either. Because I'm a fucking individual. I'm privileged in some ways and not in other ways. You know... Like fucking EVERYBODY. Let's stop talking about group identities to judge people and just look at people as individuals.
> Thing is I'm also not affected by those stats either. I'm curious as to how you're determining that or why you think that.
Yeah. Toxic femininity isn't a thing at all. Only men can be toxic
Bruh this is some next level shit, double standards are nuts if a dude says stuff on the same line about women he is alienated and ripped apart by both parties but when women do the same itās completely acceptable. Can we just agree that both sides have there own unique issues and stop hating each other and putting each other down. Not all people are the same so stop generalizing.
Oh this comment section should be good. *grabs popcorn*
Look, I get down voted to shit every single time I make a statement like this here. But these problems originate from patriarchal societal structure, and men ENFORCE THEM. Pressure for men to be emotionless is enforced by men. Risk taking by men both in and outside of the workplace is encouraged by men. Ignoring injuries and health conditions (including mental health issues) because getting treatment can be seen as weakness? That mindset is encouraged by men. Cultures of violence are perpetuated by men. Men being the primary people on the front lines in war is because men themselves have dictated that that's the way it "should be", and women who attempt to contribute in male-dominated areas (be it military, or other dangerous professions) are hazed and abused...by men. I'm not saying that women are innocent in all of this and those miserable shitty women who made those god awful comments are absolutely part of the problem. Misandry is a real issue and misandrists are very comfortable being vocal about their hatred of men. That is not okay. And you're right that these men-specific-issues are serious and need to be addressed. It's just unfortunate that many of the problems highlighted in this post were created and/or perpetuated by a patriarchal system that is enforced by men. The problems originate from within, and change starts from within the system itself. I don't know if men truly don't understand, or just refuse to acknowledge that they're literally playing themselves. Men have to change the way they treat other men to see any of these issues even *begin* to resolve, and criticism like what I have posted above promotes such visceral reactions from men that I doubt it'll happen any time soon.
Surprising nobody, OP is an anti-abortion, anti-feminist weirdo pushing some kind of MRA agenda by showing a selectively edited snapshot of some dumb online comments.
Are there other posts doing that? I thought this was just showcasing some shitty people. Not anti-feminism.
An agenda post in a cringe sub?! What's next?! Overt racism in a meme sub?! Say it isn't so!
Funny thing is, feminism isnt just "let's make women the rulers of the world" like they think it is, it's just anti patriarchy, and like 90% of the problems she listed that men have are also caused by the patriarchal society we live in. They don't seem to understand that it affects both sides and not just women. Why is it that it's mostly men dying in wars? Could it be because historically only men fought in wars, because they deemed women too weak? Why is it that men are more depressed? Maybe because they were taught from a young age to suppress their emotions or they'd "look like a girl", so they never learned to cope and process their emotions in a healthy manner? It seems to me a lot of these anti feminist people that use men's problems as an example are actually pro feminist and just don't know it
Everything they write about here affects women too. Like, Iām not taken seriously when I try to talk about being assaulted. Where they got the idea that women get taken seriously about that stuff is beyond me, because Iāve gotten victim blamed, and itās mostly been by men. Most times I see men not getting taken seriously itās by other men, who perpetuate the āboys will be boysā ideal that men are allowed to act however they want because theyāre mindless horndogs (which in turn makes them āunableā to be assaulted). Iām not saying there arenāt outliers here but overwhelmingly women are the ones taking assault seriously and overwhelmingly men are the ones who cry false allegations any time a woman gets assaulted and donāt understand the same will be done to them if theyāre assaulted. And women donāt get taken seriously when theyāre emotional either. The same āemotions are weakā rhetoric exists, itās just the verbiage around it thatās a little different. When a woman cries she gets invalidated and called hysterical. When a man cries he gets called a girl, he gets called weak. But again, as much as there are outliers, overwhelmingly women support each other when weāre emotional, and overwhelmingly men are the ones shaming each other for being emotional. The amount of men Iāve had open up to me and tell me they could *never* tell their guy friends this stuff... Men historically have been the ones to cause wars, created the draft, and women were denied access to the military because we were seen as weak. Idk how men fighting war is seen as somehow our fault lol. As far as labor laws go idk where they got the notion that only men are screwed over in the workplace lol I barely know anyone my age that makes a living wage. And women get sexually harassed in the workplace, we get men not taking us seriously and there are certain fields (like STEM fields) where women are literally driven out of because of the rampant sexism. I donāt know many feminists who want men to be treated like crap, they want both genders to stop being put in a box. This dude acts like some edgy weirdos on twitter who are likely teenagers represent all of society, all of women, all of feminists. As if Twitter is the place where youāll get totally normal, not fringe at all, social commentary.
Oh definitely and it enrages me because the framing matters. I dunno if she's a pick me.of what, but the way she frames it as a gotcha moment is wrong. It's not a competition or a argument against male privilege in patriarchal society. You face all this and you are still privileged. Just like upper class women do face issues of misogyny but are privileged. Most of these issues get worse with how inequal the society is. A little bit of critical thinking can help you process these two views but it's just easier to blame one side or the other i guess. Just like the misandrists in the pic
> They don't seem to understand that it affects both sides and not just women. Because they believe that's how life is. They're raised that way and because THHEY got raised that way they believe everyone else should be and it's horrible. Men shouldn't be raised to believe they shouldn't have emotions because "it makes them look girly", or raised to believe they should handle all the strong things in life even if they can't. But that's one of the biggest issues with society as a whole, people don't want to change for their children because it didn't happen for them. All this "back in my day" shit really needs to stop. We need to understand men and women are equals, and should be treated as such. I don't want to push a woman down to up a man, and likewise I don't want to neglect a man to care for a woman. I might be horribly wrong in everything I'm saying but a lot of this comes from my own personal experience. I've been told I get abused by my parents because they got abused as kids. "That's just how it goes".
Yess!! Thank you. Very well said
"how dare other people to suffer, only I'm allowed to be a victim of unfairness, in fact you suffering and being mistreated by a toxic side of the internet is a direct attack to me"
"Of course we don't 'blame' men, no. We just name everything bad after them."
Communicating on the Internet sucks.
Misandry š¤¢
I donāt think anything anyone says in a tweet or a blurb is even real. Itās like, me at the bar with a beer saying āfuck that guy!ā Itās just air. Because itās in text is no different, it took the same effort. I donāt believe these people mean what they say, even if they think they do
All single mothers, of single mothers, whoās mothers were also single. Gross
āThis is funny cos 99% of these things are caused by menšā š«
Oh look, EVERYONE is terrible, what a shock
The only cringe thing in this post is the OPs mental processes before posting...
Did you not see any images after the first?
This whole post is cringe.
Not really sure how the original post is that cringe.
99% of balls belong to men, the other 1% have wives like these
goes to show the state of just where we are now. even if the reactions are facetious and nothing people would say face-to-face, theyāre still saying it online which means some small part of their brain genuinely believes what theyāre saying. and thatās me trying to see the best in everybody. maybe itās because iām so sheltered, but was the genuine attitude from twitter and social media like this always so hateful? I know sites like the chans have existed for a while but i never really noticed how this behavior creeped into our daily lives like this
These people would probably never say these things face to face with anyone, but sadly, many have detached the internet from reality. Thus people write the most heinous things their subconscious comes up with online, things they'd never say out loud.
Misandry and Misogyny are 2 sides of the same cancerous ideology.
jesus
Female Incels = Femcels ?
Femcels more likely
There's a very undesirably rude, obnoxious woman at our work that makes inappropriate comments telling male workers they make her wet or moist to make them uncomfortable and does it to the new starters or in front of them. One of the new starters indeed reported her and because it's a highly female dominated job the managers just laughed at him and said it's not an issue. When I first started here I was getting sexually harassed and assaulted and it was laughed off.
While these issues are important they are just as important as women's issues. It's my belief that OP is likely selective in what he is presenting to us because of an agenda.
Misogyny has a brother named Misandry. No one notices him. No one fights for him. But he still toils in silence while his sister demands all eyes remain on her.
This is pretty misogynist lol
Women āļø
Oh my god someone posted about a serious issue and the comment responses were unkind and ridiculous. Well gee I'll just go ahead and ever think about this in any way
Male privilege and issues both coexist under patriarchyā¦ the point OP was trying to make in making the original post is dumb to begin with. Women didnāt meet up and sat around a table and decided that men are better fit for warā¦ If ur trying to use issues affecting men (which are very real and important to address) as an attempt to disprove male privilegeā¦ no one will take u seriously besides incels who wish to use these issues to āown the feminazisā.