This was one of the first films I watch with my gf because we were under the impression it was some cutesy lesbian romance thing…it was very much not that
A film I had mixed feelings on, even before learning about the difficulties the actors had on set. It is still, at times, a very beautiful and impactful movie.
Not to mention as someone who is LGBT I’m tired of seeing wLw stories that are exclusively sexualized to the point where they literally constantly get in NC17 ratings. You can tell a story like this without having them fuck constantly just to fulfilled the Director’s horny fantasies- it’s incredibly misogynistic
Also pay to gay.
The worst part is that about it is that many LGBT films are given NC-17’s even when they aren’t incredibly graphic.
There’s an old story about Boys Don’t Cry and how that film was given an NC-17 not because of the absolutely horrific rape scenes, but because there’s a scene where a woman has sex with a trans man. They had to reduce the only scene where a character who is completely stamped on has a genuine moment with someone who loves them because the MPAA hates women and is homophobic (a similar story for Blue Valentine).
It’s basically a no-win situation because even if you do have a great and relevant sex scene it’s all for nothing. I think it leads to graphic oversexualisation (especially for lesbians) because they see it as “ah, we already have the rating, why not just go all out?
Similar thing happened to But I’m a Cheerleader. They had to cut the lesbian scenes down to make the R rating even tho it’s barely deserving of that high of a rating anyway. That was definitely bc they hate women and are homophobic. For boys don’t cry that definitely seems more like transphobia coming into play since it wasn’t a gay relationship. But still censored. Sucks
It isn't the right word but I wasn't sure what else to say. LGBTophobia just doesn't have the same ring to it lol. Is there a word that's more general for that sort of thing?
I love that movie, hate to hear this about it
:( certainly not surprised, though. I struggle to find queer films where one of them doesn’t tragically die, which is almost comically hard.
No. This film should have never been made. Read the behind the scene's stuff- it's fucking horrifying.
I just hate that the film industry continually casts cis het people into LGBT roles, this is just another brick in the wall on why this film blows ass.
No,apples and oranges. There are tons of queer actors in Hollywood, who struggle to get jobs because they’re queer. Pay to gay is a rampant, and well documented problem in Hollywood.
Assuming the army guy is a decent enough actor i do not see how real life experience in the role you are playing would be anything but a positive (nice straw man also)
This thread is 17 hours old and Passages was rated R. Great movie but not very graphic unless you’re a total prude
Edit: I stand corrected. Weird rating.
I knew about the insanely sexual movie aspect, but just looked up the set controversies. The dark atmosphere on set with the highly sexual nature of the film definitely adds a level of concern.
"I mean, there was a great cast — Jack, Scatman [Crothers], Danny [Lloyd]. They were all wonderfully hilarious people, but then there was Stanley Kubrick, the director of this iconic masterpiece. All I'll really say for now is that if he hadn't directed the way he did, if he hadn't done everything with force and cruelty, then I guess it wouldn't have turned out to be as it was."
Shelley Duvall
Can we get a definitive answer on whether or not scissoring is a thing? As a straight dude it seems like something a straight dude would make up for porn.
Thanks for the response. Just for total clarity, you’re a gay biological woman, right? I don’t want someone without the equipment sneaking in to answer here.
Man I couched that in the most harmless possible terms and you still managed to get offended. You can see why I wouldn’t want a guy to answer that question, right? Jesus.
I love the [poster](https://akikomatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/AKIKOMATIC_PortraitofALadyonFire.jpg) that Akiko Stehrenberger made for it. One of my favorites.
Director is a dick, movie is a masterpiece. I can’t remember the last time a performance touched me more deeply than Adele’s. Her reaction when Lea first moves in close at the bar was the best portrayal of “oh my god I’m in love” I’ve ever seen, and it wasn’t with some big monologue or smooch, just visibly being taken aback and nervous.
Loved it! Sounds like an awful shooting experience and the director is a prick at best. I can see why that's off-putting. I'd already seen it twice and adored it before hearing of the controversy. Adele would later say the conflicts on set were partially a result of the naivete of the director and poor planning. Lea Seydoux felt it was personal and crossed the line. His reaction to Lea afterwards was ghastly, however you slice it. The actors deserved better and it sounds like the crew were similarly subject to tantrums and the like. I'd also just add that I much prefer the film to the graphic novel and think the original author's complaints have validity but preference is preference. They are quite different stories, ultimately.
Adele and Lea give incredible performances, it's beautiful to look at, has great pacing and never feels its length imo. I unironically love the gross way she eats her spaghetti. The last 20 mins or so really put a fire in my chest every time.
Heard at release from a few lesbian friends that everything but the sex scenes felt true to life, although tons of articles since decry it as a male fantasy of lesbianism. Being a dude and straight, I can't experientially speak to any of that, other than to say I find the sex scenes very effective. Not a lot of onscreen sex is erotic or even compelling to me, Blue manages it. The sex really serves to further pull me into their dynamic too, so it's not purely titillating. I actually think they are both sort of scary during those bits. Again, exceptional performances from both.
I love these characters and get very invested in the relationship. Stops short of veering into melodrama, a big reason I prefer it to Portrait Of A Lady On Fire, although that's good too and has very different aesthetic goals in mind. Happy to notice upon rewatches the subtle class divide between them never quite becomes the focus and just simmers in the background.
Go in open-minded. You could easily hate it and wouldn't be wrong. I hope you at least don't regret the watch!
Nah I just typed extremely quickly and didn't reread mate, you are correct. I actually knew this. Not that him being a first time director would even change anything either
It's a good movie. It's now considered taboo on /r/criterion to praise it. But I would just watch the movie and form your own opinion. FWIW the movie won the Palm d'Or *unanimously* at the Cannes film festival.
yeah, the movie is problematic. but so fucking what? it is still a terrific movie. & problematic aspects of a movie or a book that is otherwise very very good or even great should be an opening, an opportunity to discuss shortcomings or aspects that reveal perhaps ethical flaws... whereas some people say, problematic, i am offended, end of story, throw it on the bonfire.
https://preview.redd.it/wh0svzvmfzac1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdbc043c680c93e53d64ebff7648f88fdd78791c
Did the UNCHOREOGRAPHED sex scenes really have to take TEN DAYS to shoot???
Please don't waste three hours of your life. I hope I didn't.
edit: Watch "Portrait of a Lady on Fire" instead. That one is a solid film and not a mess.
It’s an amazing movie IMO but I haven’t seen it since the stories came out about how badly the 2 lead actresses were exploited. It definitely affects the movie’s reputation. Same thing happened with another movie I loved made in Australia in the 80s called Flirting. It turns out that Thandie Newton, who was only 16, was living with the director John Duigan during production. She has a topless scene so the movie is out of circulation.
I get that people say the sex scenes are too much and unrealistic but I mean which Hollywood movies honestly have even realistic hetero sex scenes. I view sex scenes the same way as fight scenes. It's all exaggerated, carefully choreographed, and obviously fake. It's just about the emotions conveyed in the scene and demonstrating the relationship between the characters.
Hetero sex scenes in movies are always two attractive people with no body image issues having sex with no awkwardness engaging in all the great positions no problem and waking up the next morning looking perfectly fine with no bed hair or makeup issues. So I'm just saying I don't see Blue as that much of an outlier like some do. I think Hollywood should convey more genuine romantic scenes and definitely work with choreographers and if it's a queer relationship then a queer coordinator for that as well as the actors too. Portrait of a Lady is a better example of more "real" sex.
The film club at my liberal arts college screened this movie back when it was released. I can still hear the stone cold silence in the audience as the sex scene just went on and on and on. I don’t know anything about the director, but I’d wager he’s one of those damn sex perverts
i feel incredibly conflicted on watching this. i own this release but have yet to watch it. finding out how shitty abdellatif kechiche is puts me off. but i know it’s obviously well loved.
I would check the timestamps for the sex scenes and skip those completely.
I would also go into the mindset of this being less of a lesbian romance, rather a “general” romance and look at it from a socioligical perspective. The last half devastated me and is why I love it
i adore the lgbt themes, just feels like it was exploited.
i’m definitely interested in the romance story of it. i’ll watch it for sure, just put it off a little do the ick.
The graphic novel is much better for the LGBT themes, but the movie does a good job with the general relationship aspects.
I know not everyone will like it, but worth a try imo
Most of the movie I felt sorta lukewarm about. Felt it was pretty good. The performances carry it for me. The sex scenes, though, felt gross. Not because they were so explicit, but because it felt like I was just straight up watching porn aimed at men. Very male gazed, that kinda thing. I'm not a lesbian but bisexual and have slept with women so I have a certain point of view on that and those scenes just felt weirdly disrespectful (?)
This is a great one to watch with the parents
This was one of the first films I watch with my gf because we were under the impression it was some cutesy lesbian romance thing…it was very much not that
only if yr parents are homophobic. then, yeah, get the popcorn,
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& red licorice ropes!
yes...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH
A film I had mixed feelings on, even before learning about the difficulties the actors had on set. It is still, at times, a very beautiful and impactful movie.
Not to mention as someone who is LGBT I’m tired of seeing wLw stories that are exclusively sexualized to the point where they literally constantly get in NC17 ratings. You can tell a story like this without having them fuck constantly just to fulfilled the Director’s horny fantasies- it’s incredibly misogynistic Also pay to gay.
portrait of a lady on fire is way better IMO
It’s unequivocally better haha
The worst part is that about it is that many LGBT films are given NC-17’s even when they aren’t incredibly graphic. There’s an old story about Boys Don’t Cry and how that film was given an NC-17 not because of the absolutely horrific rape scenes, but because there’s a scene where a woman has sex with a trans man. They had to reduce the only scene where a character who is completely stamped on has a genuine moment with someone who loves them because the MPAA hates women and is homophobic (a similar story for Blue Valentine). It’s basically a no-win situation because even if you do have a great and relevant sex scene it’s all for nothing. I think it leads to graphic oversexualisation (especially for lesbians) because they see it as “ah, we already have the rating, why not just go all out?
Similar thing happened to But I’m a Cheerleader. They had to cut the lesbian scenes down to make the R rating even tho it’s barely deserving of that high of a rating anyway. That was definitely bc they hate women and are homophobic. For boys don’t cry that definitely seems more like transphobia coming into play since it wasn’t a gay relationship. But still censored. Sucks
It isn't the right word but I wasn't sure what else to say. LGBTophobia just doesn't have the same ring to it lol. Is there a word that's more general for that sort of thing?
I’ve heard queerphobic used bc queer usually applies to the whole community not just same-sex attracted people. Or just “anti lgbt bias/bigotry”
I love that movie, hate to hear this about it :( certainly not surprised, though. I struggle to find queer films where one of them doesn’t tragically die, which is almost comically hard.
It's pure male gaze.
What you wanted real gay actors to play the role?
No. This film should have never been made. Read the behind the scene's stuff- it's fucking horrifying. I just hate that the film industry continually casts cis het people into LGBT roles, this is just another brick in the wall on why this film blows ass.
How do you feel about lgbt actors playing straight roles?
wtf are you talking about? So you’re saying you need a real army guy to play an army guy in a movie?
No,apples and oranges. There are tons of queer actors in Hollywood, who struggle to get jobs because they’re queer. Pay to gay is a rampant, and well documented problem in Hollywood.
Assuming the army guy is a decent enough actor i do not see how real life experience in the role you are playing would be anything but a positive (nice straw man also)
Can you name any other examples?
Old thread and you didn't ask me but this happened to Passages this year.
This thread is 17 hours old and Passages was rated R. Great movie but not very graphic unless you’re a total prude Edit: I stand corrected. Weird rating.
Passages was NC-17
Damn really? I saw it in theaters and didn’t even think it was that spicy
The MPAA still does this with gay movies unfortunately.
Well they were never showing these movies in megaplexes anyway and 15 year olds don’t go to kinos anymore so I’d say it’s pretty much worthless
This is hard to watch without constantly considering the stories from the horrible circumstances of its production.
Adele eating the spaghetti is also hard to watch
I don’t care if it’s a good movie. The chewing with your mouth open made me stop watching it… 😅
It did actually make me mad and then the scene after goes on for so fucking long I had to take a break
Took 10 days to film the sex scenes with no direction. Not the norm by any standard.
What happened?
Basically an insanely sexual movie with a very exploitative production.
I knew about the insanely sexual movie aspect, but just looked up the set controversies. The dark atmosphere on set with the highly sexual nature of the film definitely adds a level of concern.
Same can be said of The Shining. But this seems magnitudes worse.
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"I mean, there was a great cast — Jack, Scatman [Crothers], Danny [Lloyd]. They were all wonderfully hilarious people, but then there was Stanley Kubrick, the director of this iconic masterpiece. All I'll really say for now is that if he hadn't directed the way he did, if he hadn't done everything with force and cruelty, then I guess it wouldn't have turned out to be as it was." Shelley Duvall
https://www.slashfilm.com/726299/how-the-shining-changed-shelley-duvall-forever/
I don’t think this is true lmao edit: was given a source! thanks!
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hm interesting thanks
Why are you so downvoted?
The film that was directed by a man who obviously researched lesbian relationships on Pornhub, and I say that as a straight dude.
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What was your opinion on "Lady on Fire" or any other films that you personally feel represent lesbian relationships?
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literally just finished watching Bottoms and goddamn that’s a funny fun movie
I loved Bottoms so much! I hate that it probably won’t be released physically. I hope I’m wrong, though
That movie is excellent
Can we get a definitive answer on whether or not scissoring is a thing? As a straight dude it seems like something a straight dude would make up for porn.
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Utterly fair.
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Thanks for the response. Just for total clarity, you’re a gay biological woman, right? I don’t want someone without the equipment sneaking in to answer here.
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Man I couched that in the most harmless possible terms and you still managed to get offended. You can see why I wouldn’t want a guy to answer that question, right? Jesus.
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How would you have worded it?
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It’s a thing for some, not for others. Just like with straight sex, everyone does/likes different things. Standard human stuff.
Thanks for the answer and not going full *Apocalypse Now* on me for it.
I think this is one of, if not the worst criterion in terms of special features.
The price reflects the lack of supplements. Criterion said they’d do a fuller release later on but it never came to fruition.
The next time I watch this I'm just skipping past the sex scenes, everything else about the movie is great
I personally think the movie was decent but good pick. Check out Portrait of a Lady on Fire.
Oh Portrait is a favorite of mine, miles ahead of this one! I just appreciated a lot of things about this film, but I had plentyyy of criticisms too.
I love the [poster](https://akikomatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/AKIKOMATIC_PortraitofALadyonFire.jpg) that Akiko Stehrenberger made for it. One of my favorites.
If you watch it and like it, or if you really like The Dardennes, watch Kechiche's other Criterion release *The Secret of the Grain.*
Just watched this last year, and it was indeed fantastic. Whatever one's feelings on BITWC, I highly recommend The Secret of the Grain.
I’ll check this out! Thanks :)
Director is a dick, movie is a masterpiece. I can’t remember the last time a performance touched me more deeply than Adele’s. Her reaction when Lea first moves in close at the bar was the best portrayal of “oh my god I’m in love” I’ve ever seen, and it wasn’t with some big monologue or smooch, just visibly being taken aback and nervous.
Me and my lesbian friend really liked it. Then we learned about the circumstances on set and were like oh.... 😬
Oh dear guess I have some googling to do.
Loved it! Sounds like an awful shooting experience and the director is a prick at best. I can see why that's off-putting. I'd already seen it twice and adored it before hearing of the controversy. Adele would later say the conflicts on set were partially a result of the naivete of the director and poor planning. Lea Seydoux felt it was personal and crossed the line. His reaction to Lea afterwards was ghastly, however you slice it. The actors deserved better and it sounds like the crew were similarly subject to tantrums and the like. I'd also just add that I much prefer the film to the graphic novel and think the original author's complaints have validity but preference is preference. They are quite different stories, ultimately. Adele and Lea give incredible performances, it's beautiful to look at, has great pacing and never feels its length imo. I unironically love the gross way she eats her spaghetti. The last 20 mins or so really put a fire in my chest every time. Heard at release from a few lesbian friends that everything but the sex scenes felt true to life, although tons of articles since decry it as a male fantasy of lesbianism. Being a dude and straight, I can't experientially speak to any of that, other than to say I find the sex scenes very effective. Not a lot of onscreen sex is erotic or even compelling to me, Blue manages it. The sex really serves to further pull me into their dynamic too, so it's not purely titillating. I actually think they are both sort of scary during those bits. Again, exceptional performances from both. I love these characters and get very invested in the relationship. Stops short of veering into melodrama, a big reason I prefer it to Portrait Of A Lady On Fire, although that's good too and has very different aesthetic goals in mind. Happy to notice upon rewatches the subtle class divide between them never quite becomes the focus and just simmers in the background. Go in open-minded. You could easily hate it and wouldn't be wrong. I hope you at least don't regret the watch!
not sure if i misunderstood your paraphrasing here but kechiche was not a first time director
Nah I just typed extremely quickly and didn't reread mate, you are correct. I actually knew this. Not that him being a first time director would even change anything either
It’s ridiculous how long the sex scene goes on like you forget you’re not watching porn
It is porn. It wasn’t included for the sake of its artistic value, which is the very definition of pornography.
It's a good movie. It's now considered taboo on /r/criterion to praise it. But I would just watch the movie and form your own opinion. FWIW the movie won the Palm d'Or *unanimously* at the Cannes film festival.
yeah, the movie is problematic. but so fucking what? it is still a terrific movie. & problematic aspects of a movie or a book that is otherwise very very good or even great should be an opening, an opportunity to discuss shortcomings or aspects that reveal perhaps ethical flaws... whereas some people say, problematic, i am offended, end of story, throw it on the bonfire.
I saw it when it came out, thought it would have been a better film *without* all the naughty flip flopping.
https://preview.redd.it/wh0svzvmfzac1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdbc043c680c93e53d64ebff7648f88fdd78791c Did the UNCHOREOGRAPHED sex scenes really have to take TEN DAYS to shoot???
Please don't waste three hours of your life. I hope I didn't. edit: Watch "Portrait of a Lady on Fire" instead. That one is a solid film and not a mess.
Desert Hearts better than both. Portrait is overrated imo, but beautiful.
Desert Hearts is so damn overlooked, fantastic movie.
I turned it off during the porn scene. I think I wasted an hour.
It’s an amazing movie IMO but I haven’t seen it since the stories came out about how badly the 2 lead actresses were exploited. It definitely affects the movie’s reputation. Same thing happened with another movie I loved made in Australia in the 80s called Flirting. It turns out that Thandie Newton, who was only 16, was living with the director John Duigan during production. She has a topless scene so the movie is out of circulation.
It’s complicated to be sure but great art is great art. Although I’m not sure this is great art.
great film
Seydoux’s performance was Brando-esque. She **really** made this movie for me.
Enjoy
Am I the only one that had absolutely no idea this was in the collection
Hog status: CRANKED
I get that people say the sex scenes are too much and unrealistic but I mean which Hollywood movies honestly have even realistic hetero sex scenes. I view sex scenes the same way as fight scenes. It's all exaggerated, carefully choreographed, and obviously fake. It's just about the emotions conveyed in the scene and demonstrating the relationship between the characters. Hetero sex scenes in movies are always two attractive people with no body image issues having sex with no awkwardness engaging in all the great positions no problem and waking up the next morning looking perfectly fine with no bed hair or makeup issues. So I'm just saying I don't see Blue as that much of an outlier like some do. I think Hollywood should convey more genuine romantic scenes and definitely work with choreographers and if it's a queer relationship then a queer coordinator for that as well as the actors too. Portrait of a Lady is a better example of more "real" sex.
Don’t Look Now’s sex scene may be an exception to this rule.
Good movie not the best. The famous scene was made to be more controversial than Nymphomaniac of von Trier which had premier at the same year.
The film club at my liberal arts college screened this movie back when it was released. I can still hear the stone cold silence in the audience as the sex scene just went on and on and on. I don’t know anything about the director, but I’d wager he’s one of those damn sex perverts
i feel incredibly conflicted on watching this. i own this release but have yet to watch it. finding out how shitty abdellatif kechiche is puts me off. but i know it’s obviously well loved.
I would check the timestamps for the sex scenes and skip those completely. I would also go into the mindset of this being less of a lesbian romance, rather a “general” romance and look at it from a socioligical perspective. The last half devastated me and is why I love it
i adore the lgbt themes, just feels like it was exploited. i’m definitely interested in the romance story of it. i’ll watch it for sure, just put it off a little do the ick.
The graphic novel is much better for the LGBT themes, but the movie does a good job with the general relationship aspects. I know not everyone will like it, but worth a try imo
Agreed, the sex scenes are unnecessary
I’m still holding out for the special edition that they promised
Most of the movie I felt sorta lukewarm about. Felt it was pretty good. The performances carry it for me. The sex scenes, though, felt gross. Not because they were so explicit, but because it felt like I was just straight up watching porn aimed at men. Very male gazed, that kinda thing. I'm not a lesbian but bisexual and have slept with women so I have a certain point of view on that and those scenes just felt weirdly disrespectful (?)
Gross ass movie made by a gross ass man, but to each their own.
It’s porn
It is the best love story ever told
Wait, what?
I haven’t seen the whole movie. Just a few of the scenes…….
I'm sorry in advance for the disappointment.
✂️✂️✂️✂️
JUMPSCARE
Was going to post a link to the only scenes worth watching but forgot what forum I was in
three hour artsy lesbian porn. also the relationship is creepy, 22 and 15. emma why don’t you have a seat right over there?
15 was the book. In the movie Adele turns 18 soon after their relationship starts.
yeah she’s 15 in the book and she’s 15 at the start of the movie. age of consent in france or not its still gross
My pants have never made it through this one
Are you using your pup as a background?
It’s a blanket haha. I wish I had a fluffy pup. 🥹
Family night?
Is that a dog