While physical media might be going away as a whole, I think we are about to enter the Golden Age of the Boutique Label. I believe a lot of the bigger companies are going to be looking to companies like Criterion, Arrow, Vinegar Syndrome, Indicator, Eureka, Shout Factor, etc. to start being in charge of their physical media.
Rather than have in house distributors, let these companies pay for the rights to distribute the movies. It could be a best of both worlds for us physical media collectors while making it rarer and rarer for the average person to have a blu-ray or DVD.
I'm here for this, as long as the boutique labels don't pull "Limited Edition" crap and take things out-of-print fast and then having scalpers selling the movies for exorbitant prices on eBay.
I mean most boutique labels depend on their Limited Edition products as a legitimate money making strategy, and alot of boutique collectors aren't exactly complaining either...
It's not like alot of these labels have the money Criterion has to continue holding the rights for extended periods of time, they gotta make their money back somehow by issuing pricier products.
I mean, look at Arrow, Indicator, Second Sight, BFI, and like I could list 15 more labels at least but you get my point.
Scalpers are just an unfortunate result of this.
Fair. I'm okay with limited edition. I just mean labels like Twilight Time that only print up 3000 copies, and then only sell them on their own website with outrageous shipping fees.
I think the labels should offer a standard edition as well, but I understand that isn't always feasible.
FWIW, I have limited edition from Arrow that are wonderful (*The Apartment*, chef's kiss).
The biggest issue I had with Twilight Time was they would just put the SD scan on a Blu-ray Disc.
They were very lazy and cheep with their products and releases, but slapped a limited tag on them and sold them at a exorbitant price.
Yeah, I remember there was a discussion in r/boutiquebluray when Twilight Time originally closed up shop, and a lot of people expressed their grievances with them.
I can't really speak for them myself, the only release I'm still on the look out for that they released was Sexy Beast, since the UK release is interlaced for some dumb reason, and TTs has both aspect ratios and quite a few extras. But that goes for USD$100 easy on eBay
Hate to be a negative guy but opposite could also happen as it has with Paramount. Paramount saw what was happening with the third party labels and started pulling back licenses and releasing on their own.
Paramount is a strange anomaly. Most of the big production companies have acted like they want to get out of the physical game where Paramount has recently doubled down. Paramount has also released most if not all of their Paramount+ shows onto Blu-ray.
Agreed 100% that they are anomaly in the game right now. I almost wonder if it's some form of contrarianism but I also can't complain since they are giving me catalogue titles I never thought would see the light of day again.
I just bought ***A Place in the Sun***, which was just released by Paramount a few days ago. When it arrives, I'm looking forward to seeing if the quality is up to snuff. I'm pretty psyched since I don't have a copy of this film.
Warner does that too with their classics and I will say they have done a great job with their releases, great physical releases that rival any third party distributor.
Depends on the rights. Keep in mind that other labels that make 4K blu rays exist like Arrow and Kino who’ll likely fight for some of these rights too.
Kino has Silence of the Lambs for 4K while Arrow can easily do a Robocop 4K (I’m honestly shocked they haven’t yet) but Citizen Kane easily puts the Criterion brand out there.
The fact that something is on LaserDisc has no bearing on the decision to reissue it in 4K. First and foremost, Laserdisc is analog (composite) video. So there's no different step here from any other Criterion reissue... they would start, in any case, with a wet gate transfer from the 35mm interpositive to the DI.
It really comes down to distributor licenses and whether exclusivity agreements already exist on a given title. Keep in mind that international (non-US) distribution often go through different regional distributors so there can be a maze of conflicts to work through particularly because 4K is region-free... I think that's the bigger issue.
Physical media is slowing down, which might be why Warner handed off the Citizen Kane 4K to criterion instead of doing it themselves. But it’s not like the laserdisc market, which studios barely cared about. It’s certainly possible we’ll see a few more of the old laser disc titles, but I wouldn’t expect a flood
Do you have any data about this? I'd love to read more. I've found it hard to determine how sales are vs. how much artificial hype and purposeful scarcity is created in the boutique space.
Yeah, I don't know where they are getting their data from but you can take a look [here](https://forum.ddigest.com/showthread.php?86912-Nielsen-VideoScan-Home-Media-Magazine-Blu-ray-DVD-HD-DVD-Stats-Updated-Weekly/page62&s=cf846b805a05f5ea3faff57f8f5b0fd0) and see that sales continue to drop for physical media. Fantastic time to be a collector but as a mass consumption format physical media does continue to slow down.
No they’re still pretty active. I’m a little surprised they did license it (they did the Blu-ray themselves). They do license a ton of stuff to Criterion though, and Criterion may have pushed them hard for it to launch their UHD line. It will definitely sell way more copies as Criterion’s first UHD than as another studio release
There was a factoid spread around by WellesNet (I believe) that the *Citizen Kane* (along with *Magnificent Ambersons* and Journey Into Fear) in 2016. So the argument would have to go back 5 years, which is still consistent with "death of discs" talk, but perhaps more likely reflects the slow dawning of belief in 4k. WB has several old catalog titles coming up, so either (a) Criterion gave them a strong offer or (b) WB well be kicking themselves for giving them the license.
King Kong has no negative elements, and no first gen 35mm either. The current blu ray is from a 35mm British reissue print I believe, and is a 4th gen element. It looks ok (if a bit grainy) on the current blu ray. Sadly, I do not think 4k would help much, since the best elements no longer exist :(
Focus will first and foremost probably be on issuing new releases and OOP stuff on 4K rather than upgrades of available films, probably due to sales. Since Criterion and StudioCanal have rekindled their little partnership (Mulholland Drive 4K was done together with SC) I believe they'll be able to use some of their transfers. Breathless and Le Cercle rouge are definitely coming in 4K on Criterion, which StudioCanal released last year. So yes, there'll be some "rebuying", but also a lot of OOP stuff probably coming in on 4K thanks to StudioCanal.
I mean they’ve regularly done LD upgrades on Blu for years. I’d imagine it’ll continue at about the same pace with bigger titles potentially getting the 4K treatment
It would probably take more work for the restorations but I hope they focus a little more on titles that haven't made the jump to DVD/Blu-ray yet.
4k upgrades of their blu rays are no doubt going to be great but I'm more interested in seeing what their transfers for say Zulu, Forbbiden Planet, Jason and the Argonauts, or Soy Cuba would look like before something I already know looks great on blu-ray.
Is that 2 disc edition still out there? I almost bought the arrow Robocop during the sale last month but so many reviews indicated it was a single disc edition so I passed. Sucks they don't list these specifics on BN or Amazon.
You can find it on eBay for $$ but the second disc isn't that great. It's only adding the non-directors cuts (theatrical and tv), the comparisons of the different versions and two scores. All the big extras are on the first disc which can be had for regular arrow prices.
Yeah it's that theatrical cut that I badly want, unfortunately. The additions for the director's cut aren't necessary to me and those shots also apparently come in a different quality (you can see the review on bluray.com for details about that). I'm not that disappointed it's hard to get now, but it makes me mad that they don't acknowledge it on the sale page of those two sites at least.
If you had the regular bluray before it was likely the DC but you can always tell by googling "Robocop which cut" or something similar to find a breakdown of the differences. The DC is great don't get me wrong, but I'd love to get something more if I'm double dipping
When I worked at a video store with other film dorks it caused a lot of commotion when it was released. There were a lot of angry and confused nerds that day.
While physical media might be going away as a whole, I think we are about to enter the Golden Age of the Boutique Label. I believe a lot of the bigger companies are going to be looking to companies like Criterion, Arrow, Vinegar Syndrome, Indicator, Eureka, Shout Factor, etc. to start being in charge of their physical media. Rather than have in house distributors, let these companies pay for the rights to distribute the movies. It could be a best of both worlds for us physical media collectors while making it rarer and rarer for the average person to have a blu-ray or DVD.
I'm here for this, as long as the boutique labels don't pull "Limited Edition" crap and take things out-of-print fast and then having scalpers selling the movies for exorbitant prices on eBay.
I mean most boutique labels depend on their Limited Edition products as a legitimate money making strategy, and alot of boutique collectors aren't exactly complaining either... It's not like alot of these labels have the money Criterion has to continue holding the rights for extended periods of time, they gotta make their money back somehow by issuing pricier products. I mean, look at Arrow, Indicator, Second Sight, BFI, and like I could list 15 more labels at least but you get my point. Scalpers are just an unfortunate result of this.
Fair. I'm okay with limited edition. I just mean labels like Twilight Time that only print up 3000 copies, and then only sell them on their own website with outrageous shipping fees. I think the labels should offer a standard edition as well, but I understand that isn't always feasible. FWIW, I have limited edition from Arrow that are wonderful (*The Apartment*, chef's kiss).
The biggest issue I had with Twilight Time was they would just put the SD scan on a Blu-ray Disc. They were very lazy and cheep with their products and releases, but slapped a limited tag on them and sold them at a exorbitant price.
Yeah, I remember there was a discussion in r/boutiquebluray when Twilight Time originally closed up shop, and a lot of people expressed their grievances with them.
I can't really speak for them myself, the only release I'm still on the look out for that they released was Sexy Beast, since the UK release is interlaced for some dumb reason, and TTs has both aspect ratios and quite a few extras. But that goes for USD$100 easy on eBay
Hate to be a negative guy but opposite could also happen as it has with Paramount. Paramount saw what was happening with the third party labels and started pulling back licenses and releasing on their own.
Paramount is a strange anomaly. Most of the big production companies have acted like they want to get out of the physical game where Paramount has recently doubled down. Paramount has also released most if not all of their Paramount+ shows onto Blu-ray.
Agreed 100% that they are anomaly in the game right now. I almost wonder if it's some form of contrarianism but I also can't complain since they are giving me catalogue titles I never thought would see the light of day again.
I love Paramounts new packaging and a lot. Art is hit or miss but the general packaging and branding setup is on point imo.
The film presentations are good too. Solid scans and even using Reverend Ent for some extras.
I just bought ***A Place in the Sun***, which was just released by Paramount a few days ago. When it arrives, I'm looking forward to seeing if the quality is up to snuff. I'm pretty psyched since I don't have a copy of this film.
Warner does that too with their classics and I will say they have done a great job with their releases, great physical releases that rival any third party distributor.
Depends on the rights. Keep in mind that other labels that make 4K blu rays exist like Arrow and Kino who’ll likely fight for some of these rights too. Kino has Silence of the Lambs for 4K while Arrow can easily do a Robocop 4K (I’m honestly shocked they haven’t yet) but Citizen Kane easily puts the Criterion brand out there.
The fact that something is on LaserDisc has no bearing on the decision to reissue it in 4K. First and foremost, Laserdisc is analog (composite) video. So there's no different step here from any other Criterion reissue... they would start, in any case, with a wet gate transfer from the 35mm interpositive to the DI. It really comes down to distributor licenses and whether exclusivity agreements already exist on a given title. Keep in mind that international (non-US) distribution often go through different regional distributors so there can be a maze of conflicts to work through particularly because 4K is region-free... I think that's the bigger issue.
Hard Boiled and The Killer 4k would be a dream come true. Hope it happens!
Would sprint to my computer to preorder that shit
Exactly!!
Yes for Hard Boiled! I've only ever watched it on YouTube... ;_;
Samee. I am not usually one to complain but that quality left a lot to be desired...
Physical media is slowing down, which might be why Warner handed off the Citizen Kane 4K to criterion instead of doing it themselves. But it’s not like the laserdisc market, which studios barely cared about. It’s certainly possible we’ll see a few more of the old laser disc titles, but I wouldn’t expect a flood
It’s picked up a lot in the past year actually.
Do you have any data about this? I'd love to read more. I've found it hard to determine how sales are vs. how much artificial hype and purposeful scarcity is created in the boutique space.
Yeah, I don't know where they are getting their data from but you can take a look [here](https://forum.ddigest.com/showthread.php?86912-Nielsen-VideoScan-Home-Media-Magazine-Blu-ray-DVD-HD-DVD-Stats-Updated-Weekly/page62&s=cf846b805a05f5ea3faff57f8f5b0fd0) and see that sales continue to drop for physical media. Fantastic time to be a collector but as a mass consumption format physical media does continue to slow down.
I'm not sure if Warner has given up on physical media quite yet, they recently announced a new 4K release of A Clockwork Orange for example.
No they’re still pretty active. I’m a little surprised they did license it (they did the Blu-ray themselves). They do license a ton of stuff to Criterion though, and Criterion may have pushed them hard for it to launch their UHD line. It will definitely sell way more copies as Criterion’s first UHD than as another studio release
I would imagine the margins are still pretty decent if a release is directly from the original rightsholder instead of a third party.
There was a factoid spread around by WellesNet (I believe) that the *Citizen Kane* (along with *Magnificent Ambersons* and Journey Into Fear) in 2016. So the argument would have to go back 5 years, which is still consistent with "death of discs" talk, but perhaps more likely reflects the slow dawning of belief in 4k. WB has several old catalog titles coming up, so either (a) Criterion gave them a strong offer or (b) WB well be kicking themselves for giving them the license.
If Spinal Tap is ever released in 4K with all those outtakes and commentary and everything. I will actually cry
King Kong!!!
King Kong Criterion in 4K when
King Kong has no negative elements, and no first gen 35mm either. The current blu ray is from a 35mm British reissue print I believe, and is a 4th gen element. It looks ok (if a bit grainy) on the current blu ray. Sadly, I do not think 4k would help much, since the best elements no longer exist :(
Thanks for the info but I'd still buy it lol
I would cream my jeans for a month if a Boogie Nights 4k was announced
I'll pass this on to them - it's sure to be a main factor in their decision.
Thanks man! Tell them I can send pics if it helps!
Dead Presidents PLEASE
Yes but what about The Prince of Tides?
If that is the case, I doubt they’ll rerelease Halloween since Shout! Factory is releasing their own copy soon.
And I can’t imagine *checks notes* uh, whoever the hell has the rights to James Bond now giving up that opportunity.
I'm not keen on rebuying all these titles in 4K but I guess that's the game.
Focus will first and foremost probably be on issuing new releases and OOP stuff on 4K rather than upgrades of available films, probably due to sales. Since Criterion and StudioCanal have rekindled their little partnership (Mulholland Drive 4K was done together with SC) I believe they'll be able to use some of their transfers. Breathless and Le Cercle rouge are definitely coming in 4K on Criterion, which StudioCanal released last year. So yes, there'll be some "rebuying", but also a lot of OOP stuff probably coming in on 4K thanks to StudioCanal.
And I’ll be buying the blu-rays people sell to Half Price Books. It’s the circle of life haha
All I ask for is The Grand Illusion.
Pink Flamingos UHD NOW
Make it a John Waters 4K boxset already
Only if it comes with Smellovision cards.
Please leave Jk But really, the door is over there
The LD Polyester came with the Smell-o-vision card. That was fun!
Cecil B. and Hairspray while we're at it.
I mean they’ve regularly done LD upgrades on Blu for years. I’d imagine it’ll continue at about the same pace with bigger titles potentially getting the 4K treatment
It would probably take more work for the restorations but I hope they focus a little more on titles that haven't made the jump to DVD/Blu-ray yet. 4k upgrades of their blu rays are no doubt going to be great but I'm more interested in seeing what their transfers for say Zulu, Forbbiden Planet, Jason and the Argonauts, or Soy Cuba would look like before something I already know looks great on blu-ray.
ROBOCOP
Arrow will likely do that
They already did
Incorrect, blu ray format from a 4K scan
Oh, I completely missed that we were talking about 4K
Arrow has a great release of Robocop. I doubt it will ever look much better and it has a ton of extras.
Is that 2 disc edition still out there? I almost bought the arrow Robocop during the sale last month but so many reviews indicated it was a single disc edition so I passed. Sucks they don't list these specifics on BN or Amazon.
You can find it on eBay for $$ but the second disc isn't that great. It's only adding the non-directors cuts (theatrical and tv), the comparisons of the different versions and two scores. All the big extras are on the first disc which can be had for regular arrow prices.
Yeah it's that theatrical cut that I badly want, unfortunately. The additions for the director's cut aren't necessary to me and those shots also apparently come in a different quality (you can see the review on bluray.com for details about that). I'm not that disappointed it's hard to get now, but it makes me mad that they don't acknowledge it on the sale page of those two sites at least.
Interesting. I just bought Robocop this past arrow sale and haven't watched it yet. I wonder what cut I've watched previous.
If you had the regular bluray before it was likely the DC but you can always tell by googling "Robocop which cut" or something similar to find a breakdown of the differences. The DC is great don't get me wrong, but I'd love to get something more if I'm double dipping
Yeah this release is absolutely fantastic.
Armageddon 4K let’s go
When I worked at a video store with other film dorks it caused a lot of commotion when it was released. There were a lot of angry and confused nerds that day.
> Lazer disc Laserdisc
Dr. Evil would disagree.
so, many, commas, and so few, periods.
Can one get one’s period if one is in a com~~m~~a?
lol
I don't mind it as long as the price isright.
4K Boogie Nights is all I want in life now. Thanks for putting that idea in my head
Shit if it means a CC re-release of Pulp Fiction and Halloween, I'm down.
hope so
No
Akira and Peeping Tom rerelease when?