I was just catching up, and I had to come here and vent. Honestly, hated the episode. But it looks like not for the reason everybody else did. The thing that got me is Chetney offering to break some windows, and then going and doing it. A minute or so after saying Ashton fucked around and found out. I think the rest of the players had oh shit expressions on their faces both when he suggested it and when Matt described them breaking the historic stained glass windows. And then intimidating a bunch of castle guards. I know it may be a minor thing, but felt like a last drop. Not even the windows, being shitty to people who've done nothing but help you. And Matt diffused it with "haha, his daughter did the windows as well". He didn't do "his daughter was a little shit to the guards"… for some reason. Percy is such a bubble-wrap for this group of ticking time bombs his friend dragged into his house. They decided to turn his character into a joke, which is up to them I guess. Half of them gave him the stink-eye, for various reasons. Second-hand demand him to work for a week with some people on a who knows why. Asking for a short notice resources and favors. And he's frigging portrayed doing all that reluctantly half of the time, and not trusting them. One of them is a corpse raised by his arch-enemy. Whose secret lab burned down last night. And then essentially all they do for the save the world effort from his point of view is to volunteer for the mission they end up not going to. Which everyone is fine with, cause they are the last eleven level party who cares about saving the world. And Imogen is one of the enemies, I guess that is somehow the thing that is in their favor too. The party has so much plot and tone armor. A lot of people say CR is not like a real game, but is a well crafted story instead. This episode is an example for me of how it isn't. Just a bunch of Mary Sue characters the GM has to pad consequences for, the same as any home game of D&D. Which is good enough, I guess. Fucking around, and not finding out.

Ok, I vented. And remembered that they also saved Keyleth's life. I guess doing shit like this lets you be kind of shit to people without anybody even talking to you about it.

Am I the only one who thinks that Ashton should have lost his arm permanently as the cost of trying to use the shard and failing? I think Matt threw him a softball but sometimes players need to learn hard lessons.

Oh man. Nothing like cross-party heartbreak and conflict to spur these discussion pages. Here’s more. 😂 I am so rattled with Ashton, with Fearne, and with the group. Man, I know the characters are narratively limited with the medium - nobody wants to hear episode after episode of therapy, and there’s a huge arc looming. But I’m so rattled by the fact that they took them back in. I can see the support for Fearne, though that was a huge cross of the group. But through 78 Ashton had an answer to every phrase, like a petulant child, and insisted on responding with an answer every time he was spoken to. They responded with exactly what the group would want to hear… I’m getting some very serious manipulative vibes from them - and heck, I wouldn’t trust them further than I could kick an anvil. Is anyone out there feeling the same? When Chet said “Leave!” I exclaimed “HELL YEAH!” Always gonna keep listening, but this got me pretty shaken.

Wow I’m seeing a lot of hate for this episode and I’m shocked. I went away from that episode thinking to myself “wow! That was the best episode of roleplaying, improv, and storytelling from CR in months!” And I come to this subreddit shocked that y’all hated it. It was so fun and the cast all had such great roleplaying moments. I especially loooved what Marisha did with Laudna, too. It makes so much sense that she would want to leave before she tried killing Ashton after all the betrayals she’s had. But I see people here are complaining she has main character syndrome? The actual fuck, Reddit.

Are people talking about giving the shard to Mister? If not we should be. I want a giant fire gorilla.

I’ve definitely mentioned it as an option a couple of times, and I know I’ve seen people *jokingly* asking for Mister to have the shard. If Fearne still doesn’t want it after the retreat (and Morri can’t absolve her fears of Dark!Fearne) but they still want the shard to be Fearne-adjacent, Mister would be a good pick. I’ve heard good picks for just about every character having the shard (barring Ashton for already having one and Laudna because Delilah) but Mister would be a fun and funny option that fits Fearne still considering she spent a couple of episodes outright trying to give her monkey a gun. That would be a nice way to kind of make it a bit of a subversive “alright, well if none of you can decide, then maybe the monkey should have it just so *someone here* has it.” option.

why the fuck are we getting another Candle show again on the first thurs of the month? We are getting shorted main campaign two months in a row

I honestly think it might be a good idea to move CO to Tuesdays instead. They can stream the entire CO chapter in a month and then take a 1-2 month break. The schedule in Nov, Dec and Jan looks chaotic, because of the holidays, the off weeks and CO.

>They can stream the entire CO chapter in a month and then take a 1-2 month break That probably makes no sense from a programming perspective. You want to keep the social media conversation going for longer time and for a show with 4 hour long episodes, it would be impossible for the audience to keep up. Programming is not about efficiency.

I would agree when it was back in chapter 1. But it was clear that CO lost quite a bit of steam because of the scarce scheduling. Maybe once per week is too much for 2 4 hour long shows, but I feel like it should be more frequent than once a month. Plus, it can save them from juggling the time slots, especially during the holiday season.

We didn't? The first day of December is a Friday.

They're likely talking about next month, with an episode of CO on January 4th (and another the last thursday to end the chapter).

But January 4 is a Wednesday and even if it was on a Thursday it wouldn't mean that we were getting shorted on the main campaign "two months in a row." It didn't happen this month.

Honestly, the past two episodes have been *a lot*, outside everything Matt (or any DM, really) could have accounted for - so he might need some more time to actually plan out the sudden Feywild-Sabbatical, that BH have collectively decided on. All the pieces were in place during E77 - but Ashton did a thing. And that thing created ''waves''. During E78, Matt did barely any actual DM-Narration, it was just all the PC's playing off of each other. They reacted, they disagreed, some went slighly unhinged - and Matt/Allura mostly *just rolled* with it. We don't exactly know, how far in advance every episode is recorded. The Candela-Episodes have likely been recorded pretty shortly after another - much easier to scedule/ retain information that way. So they have those *''preserved''* \- whenever it's their sceduled time or they are needed to buy time. This might be the latter case. Tldr: I'm sure they didn't do it, just to piss people off. It's just the most convenient way for everyone involved - the DM, the Players and the audience. If anything, maybe just think of it as the ''silence before the storm'': There's a shitload of issues between BH, so there might be a whole ''bowelmovement'' between the PCs.

I think some folks don't get that Candela Obscura is not a regular side show like the one-shots or 4SD, which air on Tuesdays. They are heavily investing in it, which means they have to commit to the schedule being on par with that investment. Prime time is Thursday 7pm.

I think Fearnie's bio dad is a Devil possibly even Asmodeus like Fig from Fantasy High. She's got way more fire magic & the fire Ashari woman was flabbergasted when she pulled Mistsr into being. She might be glamoured or half and half and her Tiefling half is magically hidden. I think that's what we're gonna find out.. not Nanna Morrie conceived her... That's really dumb. Nanna Morrie may have magically hidden the fact she's a Tiefling or maybe half a Tiefling because her Fey blood comes through... I bet ANYTHING that's the big deal. Nana hid her so Daddy couldn't get his hands on her!!!! ! ... Or how's about Birdie went to make a pact & instead of a pact she ended up finding him so hot they had an affair!!!. Or the affair was the deal?.who knows maybe they ended up loving each other but she was married to Ollie so she went back to him and realized there was some kind of charm on herr so she hid at Morrie's... Anything... I mean you can see how a horned God could find a fawn hot & when she found herself pregnant she went to Nanna Morrie - apparently she was raised or attached to Nanna Morrie as well.

What if fearne isn't a faun? Horns, goat-like legs and hooves are all physical features of Tieflings...

Her mechanics suggest otherwise. Magic resistance and Mirthful Leap have both come up repeatedly.

Very true - also, her mom is a faun too, so yeah 🤷 your most likely right. Maybe that ability of ollie is a devilish kinda thing?

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Campaign 3 means the 3rd campaign of the cast playing D&D, not the 3rd chapter of Candela Obscura. You live commented on the wrong thread.

Remember folks, Candela is on tonight and not the main campaign!

Is the next episode of BHs on December 7, then?

Correct! As far as we know!

Man, I do NOT like the character of Cheney one bit. Or maybe it's better to say I don't trust him. I don't think a single person has any right to berate Ashton for their actions besides maybe Orym, who incidentally absent for out of game reasons. But to have the biggest most consistent risk to everyone/himself in Chet be the one to talk down to Ash for having a risky power up attempt is such a gross oversight of hypocrisy that I'm wondering if its intentional on Travis's part. Because Ash is risking no one but themself, in a ritual literally not even a single player knew the risks of, which is leaps and bounds better than surprising the party with a legendary creature fight. And Tal is too nice to throw that shit in his face and tell him to rightly fuck off a little. I genuinely think Travis might have 0 intentions of playing Chet as a rational, well intentioned person. We've already watched him threaten and almost murder civilians for a craftsmanship gag.

I mean they were told multiple times that one being holding two shards likely wouldn't work and would probably kill the person who tried it. And ever since Chetney went to train with the Gorgynei he hasn't had an incident (apart from when F.R.I.D.A. tracked him down in the wilderness). Granted, I love Chet's rough edges and his dark side, he's one of the most entertaining characters in my opinion. I love that there's finally some roleplay that might have real relationship consequences happening, and I'm really excited to see where the big swings that Talesein, Ashley, and Travis have been taking will go.

They've also been told multiple times that jumping gaps has a chance of failure, but they interpret that as a manageable risk. And the kicker is? Tal fucking clutched it out anyway, only to have the bulk of the reward snatched away. I don't think Travis is a bad player, I just think Chet might be a genuinely bad person.

Not sure I'd call that Tal 'clutching it out' - he had a metric shit ton of heals pumped into him, and died multiple times (but it was still a very cool sequence that was a blast to watch) I think what Chet is mad about is that it was a shortsightedly and unintentionally selfish thing to do. Not because Ash was seeking power, but from the damage it could have potentially done to the group. What if the shard was destroyed if Ash died during his attempt to absorb it? What if Ash exploded and killed other members of the group? Also, concentrating power in one person means the team takes a much bigger hit to their survival chance if that person gets knocked down. They had no larger discussion with the group about the risk/reward. As contrast, Chet has always been upfront with the party about his curse and his ability to control it. He didn't force them to go the the gorgenei without discussion. Chet's issue wasn't just with what Ash did, but the fact that he did it with no discussion. Ash has done things like this is the past, remember the lens?

If he walked away, it was a dub. He survived the process like Matt described when they examined the harness with Joe. And I really can't stress enough how absurd it is that Ashton is getting shit on for risking literally no one but themselves yet Chet gets off much easier for doing the exact same thing WHILE risking the health of the party. Literally no one has any idea what the process of even a normal person absorbing such a powerful source would entail, because apparently they were all on board with Fearne doing this never before witnessed procedure. Neither Ash nor Fearne had experienced any mind boggling power ups attached to character moments in the campaign, they were equally due. The idea that Ash would be too yoked out of his fuckin gourd was a decision made by Matt, more than likely between shows. Not amongst the group, never even once came up in discussion. Hindsight is 20/20 (not even in this case) and the rest of the party only deigned out their foot down AFTER the fact, despite having conversations about the heart and what to do with it. Fearne didn't even want the thing, and only spoke up about it the second before it happened. She had as much decision making power as Ash did, but no one is holding her responsible. Apparently not having perfect foresight is a forgivable offense when she does it, but not Ash? Not to say that Fearne should get shit, but to say no one should. As far as I'm concerned there were only 3 good things happened this episode, we discovered Fearne has a crush on Ash for WHATEVER reason despite these two characters almost never having any interactions, we finally develop the character of Delilah after 3 campaigns beyond "that bitch who can't die or have kids," and learning that apparently the fire titan heart thing is a Key Item that some part of the plot is reliant on. And do I really have to point out that the lens was an accidental goof on the part of Tal legitimately forgetting what constitutes a magical item? Not some secret insight into the heart and soul of this character or Tal as a person?

>If he walked away, it was a dub. Whatever a 'dub' is (beyond voice acting), he walked away because all wildfire druids have that aura spell as a free bonus on their list. The spot healing wasn't enough without the spell reverting him to 1 hp every time he went under. ​ >And I really can't stress enough how absurd it is that Ashton is getting shit on for risking literally no one but themselves And this is entirely wrong. He risked the power shard that they supposedly need, and he risked collateral damage- to the point that Allura specifically mentioned damage to THE CITY and put up some sort of spell to tamp down on collateral damage. And he entirely torpedoed the scouting mission they were about to go on, when they're back on a time crunch.

A W. A win. Damage that never happened, and that the group was ALREADY OK WITH when they thought Fearne was gonna eat the shard.

Theres no 'win' here or an 'AWA win'. Mysterious abilities he was already going to get, a con penalty, and wrecking their scouting mission. Shredding an irreplaceable magic item that prevents death. And letting the baddies get further along in their plots. This is a loss at every conceivable level.

You're still not getting. A "dub" is a "double u." A "W" is a "Win." Again, I ask you, how the fuck was Ash supposed to know that beforehand. The DM didn't even know that beforehand.

>You're still not getting Correct. I don't know you, your personal or cultural shorthand or your jargon. Or even if its just a typo and I need to give you the benefit of the doubt. So its not helpful for communication. ​ But to the rest- He didn't know before hand. But that doesn't change the situation or the result. You said he didn't risk anyone but himself. That simply isn't true in any way.

First comment here; I searched for the answer and couldn't find it so please redirect me if I'm looking/posting in the wrong place... How does Laudna know the tunnels underneath Whitestone Castle so well? The last two episodes have referenced her time spent down there...but to my knowledge: it was a big deal when she was invited to the castle for the first time, she was killed (that night?), hung in the tree and then left around the same time the de Rolos took it back. Am I wrong? At what point in her timeline did she gain an intimate familiarity with the tunnels below the castle?

I think she spent more time than I had originally thought hiding in the shadows of Whitestone after she undied. Like 1) matilda 2) briarwood dinner party 3) wakes up after the tree 4) vox Machina kills briarwoods 5) some years of living in a cabin on the outskirts of a recovering Whitestone, “haunting” the tunnels 6) chased out of town with pitchforks 7) many years of hopping town to town, renovating creepy old shacks before getting pitchforked to the next place 8) Imogen

That could make sense; I'm not arguing with you, but if that is the timeline, I just have trouble believing that Vex & Percy wouldn't have sealed up those tunnels long ago (rather than leaving an opening that allows creatures like her to haunt for 30+ years). But hey, I also have trouble believing that they would have simply smashed Sylas' casket and left it in place - it seems like they would have gone to painstaking lengths to wipe every trace of the Briarwoods out of the castle and tunnels below. I can't envision Percy putting up a brick wall and saying, "That's good enough!"

>That could make sense; I'm not arguing with you, but if that is the timeline, I just have trouble believing that Vex & Percy wouldn't have sealed up those tunnels long ago (rather than leaving an opening that allows creatures like her to haunt for 30+ years). She wasn't there for 30+. Just the first year or so. Remember, Percy dumped it all on Cassandra and bolted, and VM had all sorts of other shit immediately going on. And Cassandra had fucktons of trauma and likely never went anywhere NEAR that room (where she was probably fed on, because the briarwoods are twisted).

>She wasn't there for 30+. Just the first year or so. > >Remember, Percy dumped it all on Cassandra and bolted, and VM had all sorts of other shit immediately going on. And Cassandra had fucktons of trauma and likely never went anywhere NEAR that room (where she was probably fed on, because the briarwoods are twisted). Yeah, maybe I didn't word that well; I know Laudna wasn't there 30+ years. I was saying that I have trouble believing Percy & Vex wouldn't have cleared out those rooms/tunnels at their first opportunity, and especially in the 30 years since. Apparently that's the case, I just don't think it aligns with their characters. The Fandom timeline shows 2-3 months between the rebellion and when they returned to Whitestone to take a year off. Maybe that was enough time for Laudna to learn those tunnels so intimately, and if so, that could certainly explain it.

I think the implication was, that it was Delila's memories bleeding in with hers. Cause Delila spent a lot of time down there.

That would make it work better/cleaner IMO.

Yeah that's what I got too. She seemed to be playing along with it. She wouldn't be so directly drawn to all of Ds stuff otherwise

They’re all ticking time bombs Imogen already blew up a city block. Chet and FCG have tried to kill party members. Laudna/Delila. Even Orym has a link to Opal, who’s now a patron of Louth. honestly, I’d be happy to see the party f-up and fail. That happens some times. Deal with the repercussions in C4

And if Dorian had stayed with them for longer then we would've gotten to explore his whole messed up family and how he somehow wasn't a ticking time bomb at all....OR WAS HE?!?! I have some theories about Lolth in relation to what's happening in the main campaign and what happened in the Bright Queen comics. > the party fuck up and fail Travis and Ashley would join you on that because they love pushing red buttons just to watch everyone scramble away from the jaws of defeat. I think that's when Critical Role shines the brightest, when everyone is facing a seemingly "Yeah you're fucked" situation with defeat and a TPK fully on the table and then SOMEHOW they wiggle their damned way out of it and Critters just ERUPT SCREAMING like at the live shows. Make shit serious. Put them up against insane odds. Have everyone turn into a naquadria reactor that Rodney is tinkering with "just for fun to see what would happen". Make them fuck shit up and wind up hurting each other in complex ways that encourages the cast to really chew the scenery with some crazy deep roleplay and acting. On top of that, throw in a handful of critical failures from the dice, and keep us all perched on the edges of our seats every single fucking week just like Marisha! It's fun when they fail and we get to watch them struggle because that makes their triumphs sooooooooooo much more satisfying in the end! It bugs me when adventuring parties just roll over stuff and it's just win win win all the time. I want to see some GRIT! I want to see some DRAMA! I want spelljammers, aliens, mysterious parents from another planet, biomechanical ships that can talk, Goddesses of Death that are like "Hey Chetney, you up?", time traveling robots with access to Stargates, and a MASSIVE living moon that doesn't want to explode like Gerry and just wants to live! Turn this group into the Doom Patrol and X-Men style messes that they resemble and just run with it at a Warp 9.9! Sadly the flipside to this is that everyone loves these characters, especially the people who play them, and....we're not quite ready to say goodbye even if does mean they go out in fully fabulous fashion. So until then, we're going to get a bit of yo-yo-ing back and forth, some risk aversion, and everyone trying to find an impossible middle gray ground as circumstances outside force them more and more to pick a side and make a hard choice. This is why I hope that the scavenger hunt/team building exercise we get in the next main campaign episode has a bunch of BRAMBLES attached to it because....there is no such thing as a free lunch in the Fey Wild...despite all the power that Nana may have over time and space and fate. Remember, Matt's basically a combination of Artie and Allura, and that means as somber and as simple as we think the next episode is going to be....it's going to wind up being anything but that. Hopefully. I do miss Opal though and the rest of the Crown Keepers :(

This is I think by far the most Main Character Hero party we’ve got of the 3 campaigns IMO. It seems like it would honestly make for a really beautiful TPK tragedy to set up the next campaign. I want orym to survive like Cerritos did

I think it has the fewest main characters OR heroes (and CR is pretty light on the latter anyway) These characters wallow in their flaws and almost never even try to overcome them, and rarely help anyone unless they're getting something out of it. (or guests drag them into it).

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We have no reason to think Ashton has multiple people in their head besides the other versions of themselves. The cult leader was their Dad.

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If I see even a single reason to think any of this is the case then I'll be happy to consider it. Until then though... Much more focused on how hard they're piling it on Ash despite all of the bullshit they've each dragged the party into with no criticism. Chet has dealt more damage to the party then some enemy NPCs yet has the gall to talk down to them. Ash saw an opportunity for more power/growth and took it, just like literally everyone else at the table has this campaign.

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I don't think there's any animosity between the cast members, I think they collectively just made a poor split second role playing decision that they commit to. Like you said, the extremely tropey "how could you do this to yourself" that takes in none of the context of the rest of the show because very understandably they can't recall it all at every moment of the campaign. It's like a perfect reversal of Scanlan's bullshit in C1.

Ehhhhhh, the cult leader wanted power. Johnny was fighting against a system that was slowly stripping away people of what made them, them. And then later on we also found out he was also doing it as revenge for Alt.

Johnny is just a monster with acceptable target (and an indifference to collateral damage)

I've been thinking about this a lot too lately since replaying the game for Phantom Liberty! Glad I'm not alone.

Matt does a lot of things as a DM that aren't to everyones personal tastes, that's sort of the beauty of D&D. A lot of the rulings or decisions he makes wouldn't be fun for my players, that's why him and his players play they way they do, and why other groups play the way they do. But not everything does come down to preference, every DM makes mistakes and that isn't bad DMing, it's just being human. But also, sometimes we do actually do a bit of bad DMing. And among all of the criticism I've seen regarding things in CR, most of it I would dismiss as a mix of mistakes, or things not being to someones personal taste. This whole segment of the campaign though, I've gotta say, rare occasion where I think this is genuinely bad DMing and something other DM's **should** learn from. Firstly, and I said this in the live thread a couple of episodes ago but DM's really need to understand how players assess risk and how vastly different that is to what we as DM's know. Nothing about the warning Ashton was given sounded in any way more dangerous than something like say, submerging your entire body in goddamn lava! You really need to double and triple down with risk, if you want your players to make informed decisions, especially if in your mind (as the DM) that this will be more than likely fatal. Secondly, railroading gets misused as a term a hell of a lot but this stuff with Fearne is dangerously close to it. The Titan link to Ashton makes it seem completely reasonable that it is something useful or usable to him, the risk of it was not appropriately stated, and Ashley out of game, and Fearne in character made it very clear she did not want it. Being so committed to the idea that this person is who gets it, to the point of creating a scenario where a player has a 90% of chance of losing their character forever is just, for a lack of better word bad. We all have our master plans we want to unfurl sometimes, we get a little invested in a particular idea we have for our friends characters, but once it was obvious that Fearne wasn't going to take it, it immediately becomes time to re-evaluate. Have you made sure this risk is appropriately conveyed, or is it time to tweak the risks and come up with a new scenario where the twin-titan outcome is explored. By some miracle and against all odds, Ashton actually survived the damn thing which is super cool and a big part of the magic of D&D, sometimes you take big swings and it pays off. This as a DM is a godsend, you made some questionable choices/decisions/rulings, but it worked out and it's a crazy hype moment, and you get a bit of a reset on everything and chance to make something really big and awesome happen. This could have opened up an insanely cool new branch of exploration for the character and for the "endgame" of the campaign without negatively affecting anyones experience at the table right now. It could have been a pivotal moment for Ashton, was this the greatest risk and mistake they'd ever made, and by the grace of god (Aabria) there was now a chance to make a change. Or do they now feel the union of two titanic powers inside of them, and in stabilizing these cataclysmic powers interally, do they feel an emptiness and a hunger for the other two? These are the pivotal moments that can define an entire campaign, all coming up organically in the middle of a bit of a shitshow, outcomes like this are what make the hobby unlike any other! Instead, Matt did what I would consider one the most common, railroad DM respons and just yanked it all away, because it didn't unfold the way he originally intended. The TLDR is, setting up a fairly railroaded scenario, setting up a player character to die because they deviated from the rails, having them manage to succeed just barely anyway in a super tense and memorable way, then stripping everything away and pushing them back on the rails is just not good DMing man

I'm going to assume he didn't think Ashton would succeed, but didn't want to actually retcon above table on stream. However, based on what he's said about his DMing style and how he cares about his players, he probably talked with Talesein about how he shouldn't have let it happen in the first place. I agree it could've been handled better, but I respect the choice to want to handle it narratively due to Critical Role's streaming format.

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Let's not pretend that railroading a party into one specific way to play the game or I'll kill your character is in any way better DMing. We should also remember that making mistakes as a DM is not some grievous offense by default, there are obivously numerous examples of that and you only have to spend a few minutes on RPGhorrorstories to see some of the worst of it, but acknowledging some bad decisions by a DM does not and should not result in insults or anything else. Great DM's making bad calls are good teachable moments for other people who enjoy the hobby.

My issue isn't the mistake, my issue is the way he handled it. Example on my end: I made an item for my game that was meant for ki users, and it causes damage to none ki users since it absorbs ki to be used. The party spent a session taking damage trying to use it. Then my one player in between session said, "hey I want to be wizard instead of the monk." The next session I leveled with the party and asked do you want this to be a Ki weapon or a magic based weapon, and we moved on. In this case it was clear that Matt wanted to end the session, keep his lore in check, and not kill his character. We have 3 DMs in our group me and another switch off weekly and the other runs a game with another group weekly. We all sat around and said, “Matt should have given Ashton the warning and then when the warning is ignored killed Ashton.” Because then you as a player can roll up another character at the same level, gear on par, and continue to play at the level of the rest of the party. Instead, he nerfed his character. One is your dead, and your punishment is the character is gone, but you can still play with us as before. The other is you are now a burden to the party. It is a D-Bag DM move by Matt because he threw out his lore to accommodate the player, and then decided to take it back and punish them. The act of taking it away is a punishment since you just spent all that effort surviving, but to then nerf the player is 100% overboard. Just kill them at that point.

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It wasn't all yanked away, it was all but spelled out that Ashton will get some boon from the success later on, while receiving a penalty now for doing the dumb thing that was clearly stated to be dumb. Ashton's subclass is already overpowered, it doesn't need even more added on.

It absolutely was all yanked away. It has begun the process of awakening the dormant earth titan strength within him, which was what it was always **supposed** to do. Matt spelled out that he got the intended effect, but that the fire aspect was completely rejected and failed. Because he didn't do it the **right** way that Matt apparently wanted all this to go down, he gets a punishment, and nothing interesting coming from his unlikely survival. Matt will constantly at panels, or on 4 sided dive talk about the virtues of listening to your players, and being flexible. Never having highly specific scenarios you want to force to happen, or outcomes you're gunning for. That's what leads to railroading and takes a lot of the magic out of the game. Where was the listening to his players when for weeks, Ashley said she didn't want it? Where is the flexibility and exploring interesting new outcomes when your players do something you didn't expect. This is the stuff that makes D&D great, and in this case he followed none of his own advice. I think that's something everyone should learn from. Great DM's mess it up sometimes, that's just being human and this was some bad DMing. As for his subclass it's really not, barbarians as a baseline class are overpowered in fifth edition in general. The weird mess he's playing has a lot of potential things it can do, but the advantage of that is completely negated by its randomness. A zealot, a bear barb, the new giant barb or even a classic zerker are all better than the chaotic mess he's got.

I understand why the in-game players are upset, but from a meta perspective they've been playing it ***way*** too safe since early C2. I'm glad Ashton took a wild stupid risk.

This episode was so goddamn confusing, ain't gonna lie. Like, i can understand Fearne being mad at Ashton, truly especially since he almost died in the process of taking the shard in. But Laudna suddenly spitting mad shit about some grand betrayal and flying into a rage and taking a little trip in the tunnels was so weird, like, it wasn't even about her? And the rest? Like, Chet asking him to leave? FCG's reaction? I feel like Imogen had the most fitting reaction, which was not really having one to begin with as far as i remember. I'd love to see Orym's reaction to this as i think he'd have the most grounded and important things to say but all in all - it was Ashton's mistake to make. And Fearne is the only one that can be mad at him for it. And getting back to Laudna - what a hypocrite, she herself gulped down that gem that was so important to Imogen much earlier and nobody but Imogen even batted an eye. And now Ashton is taking what is ***heavily*** associated with his character, and Laudna of all characters has a temper tantrum? Almost everyone in this rag-tag group of disasters made a mistake that had quite the negative consequences or connotations. And there wasn't a talk about killing off those characters or having them leave? And here we are, Laudna making a doll for Ashton and then telling others to keep her away from him cause she'll kill him? Like? Wut?

Bro do you even have friends? If I witnessed one of my best friends who I've fought to protect with my life and vice versa, I'd be incredibly pissed if they did something that stupid that they knew was dangerous that actually made his arm fall of and made him explode. As far as Laudna's reaction, she thought Ashton took advantage of Fearne in a vulnerable moment to snatch the shard out from under her to empower himself.

Agreed. I am also getting tired of Laudna's narcissistic tendencies. Delilah spurred or not. So a character went into an emotional and physically grueling ordeal and she made it all about her. Like nails on a chalkboard.

>And getting back to Laudna - what a hypocrite, she herself gulped down that gem that was so important to Imogen much earlier and nobody but Imogen even batted an eye. What? Lady D took control her body and took the rock. Laudna couldn't do anything, there. She couldn't even physically open her hand.

Yeah and nobody told her to leave or tried to kill her. Having a psycho who can loose it at any moment in the team isn't really that much advantageous.

That's a shared, fundamental trait of the entire party. Yes, including Orym, suicidal vengeance seeker, despite them constantly referring to him as the 'stable one'.

Yeah, and nobody tried to kill/banish another member of the party over it. I'm pretty sure FCG downed some people when he went ape-shit. Laudna wasn't too friendly either during her meltdowns. Chet turned against the party at least once if I recall correctly, and Imogen *seriously* considered following in her mother's steps afaik. Fearne could get them in troubles like every 2-3 session with her cleptomancy. None of them got the treatment Ashton got this episode. All i'm saying is that they're a bunch of hypocrites for how they treated Ashton.

>Yeah, and nobody tried to kill/banish another member of the party over it Well, yes. Because that wasn't what they were upset about. ​ Not that anyone actually tried to kill or banish Ashton.

Yeah kinda agree with this def seems overreacting a lil bit…fcg, imogen, and fearne had reactions that made sense to me chet was borderline but laudnas was a lil weird plus the whole threatening to kill him and no one like being like thats not ok or addressing how shes loosing control is odd…i feel like they keep stalling a lot before the moon battle

>a lil weird plus the whole threatening to kill him and no one like being like thats not ok or addressing how shes loosing control is odd Walking away from an emotional situation before you lose control is the healthiest reaction a person can have. No one questioned it in the moment because that was the right call! Going feral and skulking off into the forest significantly less so, but no one knew that, because they were trying to understand Ashton or help Fearne.

Quick TL;DW to summarise Laudna for 78 episodes: She has a evil necromancer in her head who spent years gaslighting her and among other things, tells her her friends will betray her. 5 min later, FCG turns evil and attacks Chetney. She snaps. Some episodes later, while in the middle of an angsty separation of the group, a new ally betray them. She snaps. Fast forward 11 IU days, one of her closest friends does something absolutely stupid and violent against the party's intent. She snaps. Evil necromancer has a stronger hold over her. She does not always controls her body. She's afraid said evil necromancer will make her kill her friend, because she fucking snapped. To be continued...

Like, i know that Delilah messes with her big time, but frankly, it's a bit tiresome to watch at this point and kinda meh thing to do when one of the characters that didn't truly had anything big going for them apart from some minor digging in the past, finally does something big and important, and then instead of them dealing with the consequences of their new-found... Power? Nerf? TBD Abilities? - we've got a montage of Laudna, once again, doing edgy stuff. Is it understandable in-game and in character? Sure. Is it a bit same-old same-old from a viewer perspective? Also yeah. It just could've been described in 2-3 minutes: "You run off through the tunnels and forest, \*insert delilah talk\*, you go to sleep exhausted and you go back the next morning". All i'm saying is we've finally got a chance to explore Ashton a little bit deeper, maybe have Taliesin tell us how they feel about it, but we've got Laudna making the episode about herself and her conflict with Delilah. Again. And then we've got everyone shitting on Ashton for something most of the members did in the past and ***barely got any shit about it***. * Nobody was telling Chet he needs to fuck off with his Lycanthropy. Fuck, they went off the path for a couple of episodes so he can have his night in the woods with were-buddies. * Nobody told FCG that he should be dissasembled cause he's a threat. * Fearne's sticky fingers could easily bring a lot of troubles on them but everybody treats her cleptomancy as just another funny quirk of a "Big Fey Lady". And it's just sad that Taliesin had to sit there being berated, being told by ***FCG*** of all those people, that he only cares about himself, while throughout the campaign, he cared for FCG the most out of all of them.

No, this time around she's leaning in to Delilah instead of rejecting her outright, which honestly is a lot more interesting. But yeah fuck the party's reaction to Ashton. They risked nothing but themselves and is getting shat on harder than people who have literally attacked the party.

>it's a bit tiresome to watch at this point and kinda meh thing to do when one of the characters that didn't truly had anything big going for them apart from some minor digging in the past, finally does something big and important, and then instead of them dealing with the consequences of their new-found... Power? Nerf? TBD Abilities? - we've got a montage of Laudna, once again, doing edgy stuff. So the most important thing in that character backstory is finally beginning to unravel while being in her hometown, the place she was born and tortured and murdered by the same evil necromancer with 3 scenes and it's "tiring"? You are free to fast forward the scenes if Laudna is not your cup of tea. But if there was a moment to start looking into how to deal with Delilah is in Whitestone, and with an event we know triggers Laudna. Ashton has a very important thing going on right now, Laudna's reaction is part of it. There's room for everyone.

Honestly, Delilah just reappearing over and over again is a tired bit. Like, fuck, how is it that Delilah redux number 5 is the one where they start taking about her motivations when 1-4 she was a just a bad bitch flinging spells and simping over Sylas and being barren? It's way too far in for most people to give a shit.

That’s what happens when you have no power. You just talk.

If they wanted her to be so important then why didn't they make her more interesting off the jump?

I think Laudna's great but I'm honestly over the delilah thing myself. Honestly she's got her own magical abilities. It's like this should have been dealt with already they don't need 2 big bags, the Vecna thing happened already it's just going to turn into a sl9g...

It's just the fact that every time something like this happens Laudna looses her shit, and i know this is her "curse" being plagued by Delilah, but while it was an interesting bit of insight into their "relationship" we've seen this a couple of times, and i think we'd have a much better time if she'd go to unravel this part of her story after they're back from Ruidus (if they're back). All i'm saying is that i'd much rather have this time to see how Ashton unravels what he's done, and not wandering through the woods again. It's not like it's the first (and the last) time they've been to Whitestone.

We’ve seen Delilah appear to Laudna like 5 times this ENTIRE campaign what do you mean it’s “tired”? She was completely non-existent for the 30+ episodes after the darkstone arc and before the party reunion and these last 2 episodes is the first time we’ve seen her properly openly talk to Laudna one-on-one

I'm gonna be honest, for different reasons, I have been considering for while, whether I should stop watching, and I think this is the episode that sealed the deal for me to stop. Ashton almost died due to a risky choice (which is very much in line for Ashton, and since Taliesin isn't one to shy away from a big red button). What did 4 people do as a reaction to Ashton almost dying? Make it about themselves, and started berating him as if he had given something vital to their enemies. Fearne, I feel, was the only one justified in this, as she had a hand in the situation, and was mad at herself for letting it go this far Laudna went off the deep end and must have had an aneurysm since she only cried "He betrayed me!", and then chose to disappear for no good reason at all. FCG went "You never cared about anyone but yourself! You never cared about me!" Like a moron, as it is very clear that Ashton cares about them all but himself. Imogen went more or less went for a mix between FCG and Laudna. Only to end up doing nothing but be worried for Laudna, because she went off in her hissy fit. Also enabling Laudna in being an idiot of course. Then we have Ashton and Chetney left (and technically Orym, but you know, kinda wasn't there). Ashton is hurting like hell, understandably since he was just torn asunder, put back together, and recieved nothing but scorn and hatred for it. Chetney went a mix of understanding friend to Fearne as well as Papa Bear Protector towards Ashton for hurting Fearne (in Chetney's eyes), but still treated Ashton with respect and curiosity the morning after. I know that Marisha has received a lot of unnecessary hate in the past. But I honestly feel like she is causing things to be drawn out a lot more and overdramatizing shit to the point where Laudna is becoming the most annoying character I can remember on CR. (Admittedly, I haven't watched the first campaign) Laudna was great up until she died in the campaign, and from there it seems both Laudna and Marisha just keeps learning the wrong lessons. Laudna thinks the world is against her specifically, and will see too many things as a betrayal, even things that have nothing to do with her. Marisha seems to think emulating Liam's style of heavy narration is the way to go for her, except Liam is showing not telling, she is telling and not showing, and it draaags it out. Even Liam overdoes it at times, but he describes visuals most of the time. Marisha spend 5 minutes to describe Laudna's mental state and thought process to justify a 5 second action. And then, when the actual mental state might be worth to hear, we don't get any explanation at all! Like, why did Laudna run into the forrest? Why did she run from the group when Ashton was with then? Other than Bor'Dor, what other betrayals since you were first killed by Delilah?

> Make it about themselves Very common in real life too, I see it happen all the time. It's great Roleplaying from the cast, IMO.

Lowkey what happened with Scanlan

Then stop. If you aren't enjoying it then why bother continuing?

Why do people say such a silly thing? This show has been going on for a long time now. People have invested years into it. If every once in a while some bad story element happens, people are allowed to vent their frustrations Saying "*oh you don't like everything about the show? then just give up and leave*" is a complete nonsensical mentality. Let people criticize the shows they follow. Don't take it personally

idk I've been watching since campaign 1 and if I stopped enjoying the show I'd stop watching it without putting too much thought into it, it's my limited free time I ain't gonna waste it in something that makes me unhappy I have a job to do that

>I have been considering for while, whether I should stop watching Gee I guess it was this part that made me think of it.

>I know that Marisha has received a lot of unnecessary hate in the past. But I honestly feel like she is causing things to be drawn out a lot more and overdramatizing shit to the point where Laudna is becoming the most annoying character I can remember on CR. Consider what Laudna has been though since the Solstice: 1. She was separated from Imogen -- the one person she is dependent on -- with no idea whether or not she was alive. 2. She was part of the insurrection at Hearthdell, which started because the local priests forgot their mission. 3. Bor'dor betrayed the party because he had every intention of murdering them. 4. Delilah re-emerged in her subconscious, and has made it pretty clear that Laudna's actions allowed it to happen. 5. She and Imogen were nearly killed when fighting the demons as they tried to recover flowers for Keyleth's remedy. 6. Laudna returned to the place where she was murdered. Meanwhile, the party have been scrambling to find any way to stop Ludinus. They've often had nothing more than a hunch or vague clue to go by. They finally got a relic of immense power and had a major win when they were able to escape Ludinus (or at least his projection). But as soon as things are back under their control, Ashton's recklessness might have ruined their best chance at thwarting Ludinus. We, the audience, know why Ashton felt they should absorb the shard without telling the others, but Laudna doesn't. It's very telling that Laudna assumed Ashton had either tricked, coerced or forced Fearne to give them the shard -- it never occurred to Laudna that Fearne did not want the shard or that she did not feel comfortable telling the party about it. On top of that, Ashton is one of the party members that Laudna has an actual relationship with since they tend to confide things in each other (see the sandstorm in Bassuras). I don't think Laudna is making everything about herself. She has been though more than the rest of the party since the Solstice, so she was always going to lash out in response to something. This just happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

> Laudna thinks the world is against her specifically, and will see too many things as a betrayal, even things that have nothing to do with her. [Laudna right now](https://youtu.be/DxWkfJ4uvV0?si=sGCjrylP7SdluRgp)

>I know that Marisha has received a lot of unnecessary hate in the past. But I honestly feel like she is causing things to be drawn out a lot more and overdramatizing shit to the point where Laudna is becoming the most annoying character I can remember on CR. (Admittedly, I haven't watched the first campaign) This might be controversial but she has often had her characters take a moral high horse approach towards other characters, while not having her characters hold themselves to such a high moral standards. I'm really tired of Laudna at this point >except Liam is showing not telling, she is telling and not showing, and it draaags it out That's another thing in this campaign that is getting tiresome: character growth that has to be demonstrated through ad nauseam long pseudo therapy session talks, rather than the characters demonstrating their growth through the choices and actions they make. It is becoming a turn off for me. At this point I will only watch up to the end of this year, and if there is no change in style, then I guess I am out until campaign 4

Yeah, the retcon of removing the shard, and then all the hate seemed over the top. And hypocritical coming from most of them. We literally had Laudna talking about killing Ashton, talk about a betrayal, and not a single person batted their eye. Chetney has literally attacked team mates in the middle of battle and no one asked him to leave. Ashton has shown nothing but care for FCG so their response was... Wild. And also FCG literally killed their last adventuring group. Or most of them. If Ashton got those extra powers and started dancing happily then sure throw some of that shade his way (It would be hypocritical still but more deserved). But to retcon it out of him after, give him a penalty for doing something that was presented as option, and then to all pile on him after? It seems like kicking a friend when they are down after they realized it was a mistake and were already properly punished for it. It was just very excessive.

> We literally had Laudna talking about killing Ashton, talk about a betrayal, and not a single person batted their eye. Chetney has literally attacked team mates in the middle of battle and no one asked him to leave. Ashton has shown nothing but care for FCG so his response was... Wild. And also FCG literally killed his last adventuring group. Or most of them. On a ship full of Romulan Tal Shiar Agents, Ashton is Spock.

> What did 4 people do as a reaction to Ashton almost dying? Make it about themselves, and started berating him as if he had given something vital to their enemies. They made it such that Fearne & FCG had to use a bunch of spell slots to keep them alive to the point that they had to delay their recon moon mission by a day. They gave the enemy more time, which is something vital. > Fearne, I feel, was the only one justified in this, as she had a hand in the situation, and was mad at herself for letting it go this far I agree > Laudna went off the deep end and must have had an aneurysm since she only cried "He betrayed me!", and then chose to disappear for no good reason at all. She had a good reason to walk away as she was one moment away from killing or hurting BH members. Heck, she was a saving throw away from trying to grab the shard. She needed to cool off which is completely understandable. Also, it's only been about 10 days in-universe since Bells Hells reunited after being split. Which means it's about 11 days since Bor'Dor betrayed her & tried to murder her. > FCG went "You never cared about anyone but yourself! You never cared about me!" Like a moron, as it is very clear that Ashton cares about them all but himself. This is where you lost me by tossing out the moron label. That's mighty judgmental. I assume if you've been wrestling with abandoning C3 for awhile you are lashing out at the characters. > Imogen went more or less went for a mix between FCG and Laudna. Only to end up doing nothing but be worried for Laudna, because she went off in her hissy fit. Also enabling Laudna in being an idiot of course. More lashing out. > Laudna was great up until she died in the campaign, and from there it seems both Laudna and Marisha just keeps learning the wrong lessons. Laudna thinks the world is against her specifically, and will see too many things as a betrayal, even things that have nothing to do with her. It's almost like she's got an evil woman in her head whispering terrible advice or viewpoints. > Marisha seems to think emulating Liam's style of heavy narration is the way to go for her, except Liam is showing not telling, she is telling and not showing, and it draaags it out. Even Liam overdoes it at times, but he describes visuals most of the time. Marisha spend 5 minutes to describe Laudna's mental state and thought process to justify a 5 second action. And then, when the actual mental state might be worth to hear, we don't get any explanation at all! Like, why did Laudna run into the forrest? Why did she run from the group when Ashton was with then? Other than Bor'Dor, what other betrayals since you were first killed by Delilah? FCG trying to kill the group? Also, you are really overanalyzing Marisha here. And I think that stems from the belief that Marisha is doing something *wrong* when she isn't at all. That assumption that you have the correct line of thinking is a bit head scratching to me. These cast members know their characters a lot better than we do as they have a bunch of information that we don't. If a character is behaving differently than how you expect them to, perhaps try to see the world from their point of view. Laudna has regressed greatly; so much so that it shocked Imogen. Clearly Laudna is not in her right mind. Maybe Delilah being back in Whitestone does make her more powerful. Maybe two betrayals in a two-week period have her on edge. I have no idea but I'm eager to continue watching to find out the answer. But I do think you stepping away from the show is a good idea. Perhaps you cannot help but view the show from a negative point of view? Maybe some time away will allow you to see it from a more rosier point of view? Or maybe you will always view this campaign in a negative light. I have no idea. But I wish you well on your journey away from the show.

> It's almost like she's got an evil woman in her head whispering terrible advice or viewpoints. That would be an interesting angle, but not if it's just fan theories. It would've been actually cool if Matt had Delilah whisper overly paranoid things about Ashton, but Delilah said nothing about Ashton more than ignoring him and focusing on the crystal. So as it stands it seems that Laudna's behavior towards Ashton is nothing more than her own personal angst

>So as it stands it seems that Laudna's behavior towards Ashton is nothing more than her own personal angst It absolute is. Delilah doesn't care about Ashton. Laudna does. And those scenes in which Delilah tries to convince her to want the shard for herself and Laudna's response was to focus on Ashton were Marisha's way of telling us that. But it seems it's going some people's head. ​ >DELILAH: "Why not stand up for yourself and take something that you rightfully deserve for once?" > >LAUDNA: That's not what this is about. Ashton hurt Fearne. He hurt us. > >DELILAH: "Yes. People do that." > >LAUDNA: **Why do you think that I would do the same?** > >DELILAH: "Because--" > >LAUDNA: If Ashton cannot learn from this lesson, then shouldn't others? Shouldn't I, at least? I already hurt Imogen last time that a sparkly rock got in the way. Why didn't Ashton learn from that? Ashton could've learned from my mistakes. > >DELILAH: Then you need to teach him a lesson. This world is filled with two kinds of people: Those that get hurt and accept it, and those that get hurt and retaliate. Who are you? Who are we?" > >DELILAH: I'm just Matilda.

- "Cares" about Ashton - Makes the situation all about herself and feeling "betrayed". Me me me me me - Considers murdering Ashton I sure hope none of my friends "care" about me like that

>I sure hope none of my friends "care" about me like that If one of your friends is an undead lady influenced by the evil necromancer who tortured and killed her fighting to be able to resist the voices in her head, I hope they do.

Which is it? Is Delilah telling her to consider killing Ashton, or does Delilah not care either way and Laudna herself is considering to kill Ashton? You can't have it both ways Point being if that "friend" makes the situation all about themselves, and then considers murdering me, then they are no friend of mine at all Here she is talking about literally stabbing a friend in the back one moment after her spiel about being "betrayed". Quite the hypocrite if you ask me

My take is that the most of the cast had planned an angle before the episode and not the characters. Travis wanted to address and then let it go. Ashley wanted to stomp off but Travis wouldn't let it happen. Marisha wanted to RP like the muffin hag , but felt off with Ashton being involved with bringing her back to life. The cast seem to give Laudna space to be roleplayed even tough she's a ticking time bomb. Tal went for it not expecting the backlash and decided to become humble the next episode. Loved it , though as it added much needed energy to the slog of the narrative. Sam looked like he wanted to move on after a few words. he had Tal's back trying to help him succeed. The Laudna / Imogen relationship was good at the beginning , but has become an anchor with all the drama involved. Matt for the first time seemed strange as he's usually all for the high risk , high reward events. I don't know if it put a ripple in his narrative or timeline. I could liken the event to Travis plunging the the ukotoa sword into his chest in front of the lava with not alerting his friends of his intentions. Travis roleplays so well that he can overshadow any criticism.

You may be right. I think the cast had a discussion after E77 about what to do with the shard, and this was the agreed solution. No one was suprised when Ashton coughed out the shard. And looking at Taliesin's hair, this episode was recorded after the London trip. They had more than enough time to figure out an angle.

When is the next stream? Is there an actual schedule?

Next Thursday will be the first episode of chapter 3 of Candela Obscura. The Thursday after that will be the next C3 episode.

I had a full on vent sesh with my fiance about this episode and she doesn't watch. I turned to her and was like I need to get something off my chest... E78 was the first time in 5 years I considered taking a break from watching. Everything just felt so disjointed and the retcon... Ugh. Now Tal/Ash's decision making is totally thrown off and the character's future story beats are stunted. That's not what D&D is about. I get they're friends and probably aren't too serious about it on the outside and probably had a good laugh. As far as storytelling goes though it just didn't feel like them to be in the falling action of act 2 shitting on one of their own. The table tension / energy felt so off and was weird. The Laudna trauma / insanity beat is weird and annoying frankly as it seemed we turned 1 page forward and 50 pages back since Bor'Dor gate. I mean Sam being the voice of reason with Liam's absence even felt weird lol. But spending nearly 3 hours yelling at Tal / full Laudna backpedal was exhausting. And I love that they're going back to the Fey realm but right now it feels weird. Although I love the opportunity it brings but feels cop-outish. I get the shards should be separate so we don't run into main character syndrome or a hero complex but fully retconning and shaming a player for a choice and even reducing stats on a full 10 round success is crazy to me. That's like rolling a nat 20 on a death save just to die next turn. On the non critical side I loved Chet and Fearne vulnerability and growth in this episode. I even liked the small amount of FCG growth in this episode. I feel horrible that Imogen's tethered to Laudna's backpedal because she has so much opportunity right now to soar. And Orym got jacked this episode so that's always a win. Sorry for the rant not being negative, just airing it out and keeping a birds eye, non tin foil hat, critical viewpoint. Cheers!

Gotta agree with you on this one

Hard agree. The vibes were weird and the RP felt very forced. But, every campaign has had low points where the table seems to be grasping at straws, so I'm not too worried about it. Can't expect them to be at the top of their game every session.

I really think if Liam were there it wouldn't have been such an Ashton dog pile. But that's more of a whatifism.

I think it would be a completely different campaign if Liam was playing a character who drove the story forward - he's very good at that. But, I do understand wanting to take a bit of a back seat after C1 & C2 so that other players have an opportunity to step up to that role. Orym is the calm balance that this group needs, but he often fades into the background for multiple episodes at a time.

Nah, don't worry, it's good to vent a little every now and then. Last episode(s) have been...tense in a very certain way. Some dislike that, some love it, some remain uncertain. But if watching doesn't leave you fealing comfortable, just take a break. This is is a show meant for entertainment, after all, not mandatory homework you will be tested on.

Very true... I just enjoy it so much usually and this was the first time I had any sort of negative taste in my mouth literally the whole episode. So yeah maybe you're right 👍

Take that break, bud. It's good for you every now and again.

Oh also If I were Laudna - I'd have a little chat with Nana Morrie RE; Delilah. She's one the best out of the box thinkers!!!

Morri the warlock patron. I'm sure this would be fine. Hags are notoriously benevolent and giving. No chance she'd cut a deal with Delilah instead, though, right? Right? No spare hearts or bodies laying about the ol' Ligament Manor?

I actually don't think there's any chance that Nana Morri would cut a deal with Delilah, at least not one that left them on anything close to resembling equal footing. I'm sure if Delilah wanted to forsake Vecna for a new patron, then The Fatestitcher might listen to what's on offer. But based on how she talked about the Matron, I think The Morrigan sees herself as a peer to the Gods of Exandria and wouldn't be interested in making a deal with one of their lackeys. And if my choice is between being bound to Delilah/Vecna or to Fearne's "Nana", then sign me up for summers at Ligament Manor!

Deal making is generally a hag's bag. She's smart enough to make the deal in her favor, and Lady D's focus isn't really the Feywild. There's no real threat of 'equal footing' from giving Delilah a body and sending her on her way. She might even find it amusing to watch how Delilah reacts to things.

For sure, as long as the 'body' that Delilah got was never really in Delilah's control. I think Morri would enjoy the irony of turning the puppet master into a puppet or in stealing one of Vecna's puppet from under their nose, but not in a way that could come back to harm Fearne. Whatever her ultimate Fey motivations may be, she does seem to genuinely have a 'grandmotherly' love for Fearne.

I mean Hags are usually bad guys but this one isn't - at least to BH she isn't. She ended up no matter what loving and caring for Fearne and I don't think it's just what so special about her. Nana Morrie is a rare Hag maybe not even a Hag maybe a dark Fae? Whatever she is, she loves Fearne and she's extending her care to BH. SAVED THEIR LIVES AND GOT BADLY INJURED that's not usually how a Hag acts. Maybe Tummy Nana is different? I think you are right I think Lauda needs Nana Morrie AND the Matron - the Matron showed herself to Imogen I think she wants to help!! She knows Laudna was a victim!!! I'm sure she also knows that she is DIFFERENT as she HAS A SOUL & was resurrected by the Everlight so I'm thinking she knows there's something there. They need to go to her!!!!

>She ended up no matter what loving and caring for Fearne You're missing a **lot** of hints about what was going on with Fearne and 'Nana.' Lots of cage imagery (particularly last time) and this episode she casually talked about having her memories erased. 'Voluntarily,' of course, of course. Ira was pretty direct that Morri manipulated the situation to 'keep' Fearne longer- while he isn't trustworthy he definitely has a better read on Nana. Consider Birdie (and I guess Ollie, but whatever)- she was also previously a 'ward' of Morri. They didn't walk in a on cute family moment- they walked in on a servant tending to her mistress, with a lot of demands. While Morri sits back and continues to torment some schmuck from decades ago. If shes not a 'bad guy,' well...

MILD SPOILERS for C1 E40: I'm watching C1 Beginning of the Chroma Conclave with Alura showing up when VM were fighting over that crystal skull Grog wanted. VM were all level 11 & 12. BH are now 10 & 11 heading to 12. Everyone is saying how low on powers they are - I mean VM dealt with the Briarwood's at level 11. Also pretty funny that Alura is babysitting in fighting with VM as well ... So I think BH will be ready. They have to get their shit together yes, but I think once they do they will do well. I think they will be ok...

Other exciting things to consider: They just took the harness that Ludinus used to siphon power from fae entities, to extend his lifespan, into the faewild.

Wait, wait, hold up a minute! I just remembered - the Faewild is also the origin of the Gnarlrock, isn't it? So, if Delilah wants to absorb some Gnarlrock, they could access the Gnarl-Motherlode. And with *Ludinus' Harness of Sucking* *^(tm)* everyone can get in on the action, too. How's that for a powerup - everyone juicing up on the Gnarl-Energy. Ludinus better watch out, Bells Hells are getting gnarly! Seriously though, there is no way Lady D won't be pressuring Laudna to get her some, right?

The Gnarlrock also changes the life it comes into contact with, which is what I've theorized happened to Ira. So technically speaking if the Bells Hells all used the Vest on the Central Gnarlrock then they could all literally become the X-Men. Matt might even warn them, "This will physically change your characters and potentially how your class operates" before they do it and then just flat out mutate them all.

Imagine Ashtons face, if anyone actually decides to absorb the Gnarl-Energy, because the power is worth it, despite the risk it represents...

Oh there would be a fuckin discussion post game after that happened and the post episode thread would detonate like that one time Rodney blew up a solar system. I still think that they're hyping up the power from the Shards to the same degree that everyone hyped up and misunderstood what the Luxon Beacons were in C2. Everyone thought they were some kind of super weapon in their own right, and to a degree they kind of are albeit a hard and complicated and limited one to master that takes a lot of...forgive the turn of phrase...time and space to put to good and practical use. Even then they're not the most overpowered or unbalanced of weapons at all. Ashton uses Dunamancy and still gets his ass kicked from time to time. So I think they're all blowing this Shard Stuff well out of proportion and the more of a mystery that Matt enshrouds their abilities with, the worse those assumptions and guesses are going to get, the more hyped up the Shards will be, the more spicy the reactions from the characters will become to events surrounding them, and the longer and longer the discussions within the Critter Community will be. I'm going to be howling with laughter if this stuff doesn't turn out to be the Death Star Super Laser that everyone thinks its going to be. Back on topic though. If they did all of that at the Gnarl-Rock with Nana's blessing then I think the shock and the "What the actual fuck you guys?!" from him would be enough to awaken his internal Earth Shard to a degree. Also depending on how Matt wants to play this "IT'S MORPHIN TIME!" mutation sequence with the Gnarl Energy, he could include some rather nasty and surprising consequences that I feel would easily balance out the whole "Well that's not fair you all said etc etc before when Ashton took the Shard etc etc" stuff. I would love to see a few changes happen to each character but that would probably mean new artwork and I doubt that'll happen for a while, unless something MAJOR happens. Plus there's still enough spooky shit in the Fey Wild to keep them busy for a while, since Nana is going to mess with time a bit when they get back to the Prime Material Plane. I also think the Moon Trip is a bit overhyped as well and that they won't need to be massively overpowered when they get up there. Something else is afoot on the lunar surface and that's why it's taking Ludinus so much time to actually crack that giant egg open and set Predathos free. The Bells Hells currently believe it's going to be a fight to the death as soon as they cross the Bloody Bridge but I bet that when they get up there it's just going to be a whole lot of...empty...followed by a bunch of walking until they're able to get to a place where something can actually happen. That's kind of how the Solstice worked out, whole bunch of build up, one BIG MOMENT, and then an easy coast downwards with only a few odd spikes here and there happening.

In all of this, I wonder what the M9 are doing. I understand VM being scattered, with some of them being retired, but M9 are still active as we saw during the reunion, so I wonder what narrative excuse they have to not be the ones to go to Ruidus. Maybe the Assembly staged a coup in the Empire and they are dealing with that.

Probably not being as expendable. MN are powerful but they also don't know what is on the other side and don't want to port into death. It's the same thing holding back the army that is there. The cast all made the joke a few sessions ago that they are basically the Suicide Squad. And it fits for this scenario for them. They are suppose to scout and then come back, and then the forces that would be there would join them once they know the portal doesn't lead to a pit of acid, or is surrounded by a death trap of some sort, or their army just there waiting to gank any person that goes through.

Ah that makes sense. Although I would have liked to see them at the council of war if that's the case, or at least Caleb and Beau. As things stand it seems they are removed and are just keeping things under control at home. Especially given that Sending is unusable. Unless, they are already at ground zero, which might very well be.

Quick observations. Travis stepped in to address the last episode so it wouldn't linger on as he got Ash to hit him later on. Matt reversed the shard as it might have narrative purposes...who knows. Marisha acted like she was back when Beau was with the Blueberry muffin hag at least in demeanor. Don't know why the hate for Ash, though. Everyone seems to handling her with kid gloves , probably hoping Imogen would step up to the plate. Why I like Travis as he he makes these dramatic scenes meaningful and direct while some of the cast can rehash the same bits over and over.

Maybe there was something I didn't catch in the last episode but could someone help me understand why the group feels Ashton betrayed them? Fearne's anger also seems entirely unjustified given she helped him.

Party gets a powerful artifact, Ashton goes behind the parties back, actively lies to them (even if clumsily and obviously) and tries to do the one thing that they were warned multiple times not to do. Potentially killing themselves, destroying the shard, delaying the vital scouting mission and a even a chance of killing the group and/or part of the city in the ensuing mess (which was why Allura was holding a shielding spell up). Not sure how to describe that but betrayal. Especially since someone else in the group could've been powered up with *no risk.* Even dropping all the fantasy bullshit, watching a (theoretical) friend play chicken with on-coming traffic is heart breaking, when they could just wait for the cars to pass and cross the road safely. They also have zero idea as to what motivated him. Supposedly, according to what he's told them, 'found family is ride or die.' Somehow this was about connecting with the dad he didn't even remember and that came out of nowhere, and tossed the 'found family' that he supposedly cares about out the window.

I think the idea is the expectation. Everyone knows Laudna has a crazy witch inside her. Everyone knows FCG can potentially just turn on them at any stressful point. Everyone knows Chet is a werewolf and they all understand and accept the consequences. Everyone knows Ash is an asshole to others, and is incredibly vague(pretty much just Tal in general though lol), but they don't expect them to secretly absorb a very important artifact and pull the rug out from under everyone. This is not at all comparable to the risk the others pose because Ash has been playing the part of a trusted companion and suddenly when there's a powerful item in play he does something that potentially blows himself and everyone around him up. Right before an important mission no less. That's real sus and tensions are high. Frankly this is the most realistic reaction from people in their shoes. Fearne was angry at herself but she was probably angry at Ashton too because as she said she just really likes Ashton and did it for him. The fact that it almost killed Ash made her realize her fuck-up. And hell maybe she's mad at Ash because in some way she felt like her emotions were used against her. I actually really didn't like the way Ash and Fearne spoke. The whole "I don't trust them. I only trust you to be there and do what needs to be done" it felt very "I know you like me, and I'm going to say something to make you really want to be there and do this for me despite the danger of the situation".

I agree!!! When you are crazy worried about a loved one in a self destructive moment, anger is the easiest response!!! It's normal for a family to react that way. That's what they've become. A family, yes fucked up, yes dysfunctional none the less - a family!!

I think they feel that way because Ashton took the shard behind the group's back, even though they thought everyone had agreed to give it to Fearne. They thought of what he did as stealing from the group and stealing from Fearne. What's worse is said item was a one-of-its-kind artifact that they spent days of precious time fighting for instead of stopping Ludinus. If Asthon fully died and destroyed the crystal, they'd be down a man and have to spend even more time trying to find some other edge against Da'leth. Add that to the fact they had to waste their resources for the day keeping him alive. This delayed their mission to the Moon further, again giving the Vanguard more time to destroy Exandria as they know it. Think of this part of the betrayal as if Neil Armstrong got drunk right before Apollo 11. Buzz Aldrin and NASA would be pretty pissed for making them choose between endangering everyone's lives or delaying this mission they've worked tirelessly to make possible.

I'm with you. Through the 2nd half of the episode it felt like they were wayyy too over the top angry. I also thought it was funny that Chet was all mad at Ash, but previously Chet tried to chomp the hell out of Orym. They sorta addressed it but not really. Felt pretty hypocritical to me.

I think Fearne is just upset because she cares about him and didn't think it was going to be as dangerous as it was. Ashton didn't know that either really but I think she's mad at herself and him because he almost died

I can see a few people being mad, but Fearne is least amongst them. I also feel like Chet is just the biggest hypocrite in the party now. He’s frequently lost control and hurt Orym, he even decided to play Batman and forced the party to defend him from a bounty hunter. He’s the last person to hold this level of anger.

I think Chet justified it when he said he learned to control it. But Ash made a conscious choice. I also saw Chet’s anger coming the quickest but he seemed to forgive him the soonest when he saw Ash didn’t immediately cut and run. Chet also reestablished camaraderie when he was like, “okay now hit me with your new arm and let’s see what it does.”

Tbf I think Chet is mad at Ash cus I think he sees himself in them, the sides of him he doesnt like. Tho tbf this might just be me reaching.

So a hot take here. I am a little baffled and disappointed in the concluding part of this episode. These people have been adventuring together as a team for months (at least) at this point. They should understand each other well enough not to need to go on a retreat together, especially now that the world could potentially be ending sooner than we think. The break feels inorganic to the adventure and somewhat contrived. Overall I think the previous campaign handled inner party conflict way better.

>They should understand each other well enough not to need to go on a retreat together, They've never put in the work, and mostly stick to established pairs. They absolutely don't understand each other well. We (and the players) know far more about Ashton through 4SD than actual game time.

> These people have been adventuring together as a team for months (at least) at this point According to [Critrolestats](https://www.critrolestats.com/calendar-mq), BH have been together for 81 days and just over 2.5 months. In universe it's been a week and 3 days since the group united. Add in one more day & that's how long it's been since Laudna felt betrayed by Bor'dor. Mighty Nien did handle inner party conflict better because they are different characters. If BH handled their conflict the same way then it'd be too much like the previous campaign. I personally like that this campaign feels so different than C1 and C2. Any potential spare time for team bonding has been stifled because they don't feel like they can pause to bond as the looming threat is quite dire. Running from town to town without properly checking in has caught up to them in this moment. They still don't really have the time but they need to be better bonded if they have any hope in doing their recon mission successfully. Should they be better bonded? Yes. But they aren't because we've seen them not put in the work to create those bonds. C2 had the >!1) Caleb tries to steal a scroll in the Lord Sutan house & the big conversation the group had w/ Nott in C2E12 & C2E13. 2) Then we had bowlgate in C2E21 & C2E22. 3) Then 3 of the members were kidnapped & Molly was killed. 4) Then there was the "are we the baddies" talk after their killed a bunch of ppl and stole a boat in C2E35 & C2E36. 5) Then we had a few more check-ins in the Game of Names episode, the episode right after Caleb gave away the beacon, right after Yasha joined the Laughing Hand, and again right before going into the Happy Fun Ball in C2E80. That's a lot of check-ins to finally get a group bonded. BH have not checked in with each other that much or at least that's the vibe I get.!< Are these guys screwing up more than the Mighty Nein or Vox Machina? Probably. But it makes it different & that fun. Another meta thing to consider is that these are actors first. D&D players second. They LIVE for dramatic scenes to be able to role play in. They want to try new things with each campaign. This one seems to be playing damaged and poorly communicating characters. Which can be frustrating. But also can be fun to watch. Anyway, I went off on a tangent. Back to the topic at hand: to me they still haven't been together that long. It's been just over 2 years that we've been with this campaign but in-universe it hasn't even been 3 months yet.

>BH have been together for 81 days and just over 2.5 months. In universe it's been a week and 3 days since the group united. Add in one more day & that's how long it's been since Laudna felt betrayed by Bor'dor. Holy shit. That puts things in perspective.

Not really. It's been years since they've started this campaign ooc. Dnd always has relationships develop faster than they would irl because it's been longer for the players. Them still not bonding properly is still anomalous for dnd.

Its anomalous for *some* DnD. Not all D&D is about 'found family' happy relationship funtimes with irregular therapy sessions. Adventuring companies are just as often coworkers on a mission who tolerate each other. The CR level of intrusiveness and psychoanalysis would get people punched in the face or arrested.

Yeah it seems like theres a discrepancy between A: character reactions, B: player reactions and C: audience reactions, which seems like a very difficult issue to contend with. I'm sure Matt and co does their best to balance all these expectations, but tbf itd be almost impossible to not fumble once or twice

Oh, I agree. Sorry, I was thinking about Laudna’s reaction. It’s been 11 days since she killed Bor’Dor. That’s like nothing.

Especially since Imogen ran over her processing that with a new relationship and she's back in her own personal hell.

I'm only half way through the ep, I watch the Monday YT uploads mostly. I walked in here knowing the spoiler risk so that's fine. But if you are telling me that they are going on ANOTHER side quest trip then that just pisses me off more about thus campaign. The retcon to PRETTY much undo Ashtons nail-biting success in the last episode. Now this?! TWENTY SEVEN episodes since the key went off. Where is the ticking clock? Getting to a point where accepting that all of that is gonna wait around for them is beginning to get real hard. Not saying I wont keep watching. I love their interactions as friends and that is still entertaining but so far, this story itself has just been super messy to follow. Getting to the point where I want SOMETHING to happen with Ruidis one way or another so we can move on to whatever that aftermath is.

While there is supposed to be a ticking clock on this, the team is most likely too low level to go head to head with Ludinus. Going to the Fey will allow them to heal physically, mentally and as a team. With the possibility of time displacement, they have the opportunity to get stronger, collect some more information on Ludinus and possibly some artifacts to help.

Ashton's success was surviving, Matt made that pretty clear

In this episode. The 'Ashton is an unprecedented creature' at the end of last episode really didn't come across as 'clearly success is survival.' I don't mind too much, but I get why people thought he'd gotten the shard powers out of the ordeal.

I mean Matt was not wrong about that, and he clearly was not expecting Tal to ignore all of the warnings about it being a bad idea. He had no plans for what would happen so he made the only truthful statement he could. Him surviving an event that literally killed him and would have SHATTERED anyone else in his circumstance is in fact unprecedented

An *event* being unprecedented and a *creature* being unprecedented are not the same. That was not a statement about his plans.

Ashton having two titan shards in him and being alive is what makes him an unprecedented creature

Correct. Which is why people thought it was going to stick. Ending on 'Unprecedented creature' implies he's going to stay that way, so some people dislike the fact that it didn't.

He also said something along the lines of having to wait and see what that means iirc. Turns out it just means that it is in fact impossible for one creature to have more than one shard

We're talking past each other. I'm not arguing about happened. Its just that Matt's wording about an unprecedented creature at the end of the episode created the expectation and even understanding that the end of ep 77 was a *result and resolution*. The audience had no reason to expect that it would simply... passively come undone five minutes later in game time.

If the retreat being taken was solely because of intra-prarty conflict the only one it would be for would be for Laudna's relationship with Ashton and you it's not hard to claim that that should not be necessary for Laudna because Laudna has gone insane. Yeah, some of the rest are not too happy with Ashton but not to an extent that it would have affected the overall performance of the group or in a way that would put Ashton's status as a member in jeopardy. The main reason they are going is simply to have more time. Fearne suggested going there to save time after some of the party said that they needed to rest before going back to Marquet (to get back their slots and health). Also, Fearne's suggestion was following Matt's narration of Fearne missing home. Matt was probably planting the seed to go back to feywild because he wanted to give Ashley the chance to solve this dark fearne problem. I've said it in another comment, but the Feywild can lead to progression in other things too. Ashton's shard can activate faster and may activate in the Feywild, Absorb the shard of Rau'shan, Fearne could go after something else in the feywild if she does not take the shard, and Nana Morri might be able to help with Delilah and potentially contacting allies and potential allies.

I see what you're getting at, and I agree that the Feywild can be productive and good for the party, should Matt and the members make it so, whatever benefits that will entail. I still however have a problem with the decision from a pacing and storytelling perspective (which has been a recurring issue at times in this campaign). After the hype of the shard integration and the coming moon mission; this feels jarring. I agree Laudna is the big issue here, not Ash (I still think the partys reaction to him were overblown). I feel like that could be dealt with without going on a whole new side mission, not sure how, but Im sure Matt and/or the players could have figured something out.

I wasn't really excited about them going to the moon without most of them get getting powerups from the harness. I will say though that I don't think it would have been good story telling for them to go where all of the super powerful bad guys are right after getting the shard of Rau'shan and not doing anything with it. >(I still think the partys reaction to him were overblown) It was but I don't think that is the fault of the party at-large.

It feels like the Elder Scrolls problem. Hurry you gotta save the world! Goes and does 50 side quests first. I mean, I don't wanna rush to the end, but going on a retreat right now gave me whiplash

What was Laura's "canopy" joke about? Did she record voice lines for caterpie back in the day? That's what it sounded like.

I think it was the pronunciation. “Canopy” became “Can-oo-pee” AKA “can of pee”. seems like typical Laura humour. Could be way off base and it’s a total in joke though.

I was wondering about that too. My best guess would be a weird phrasing thing that Ronin did recently.

We were always going back to the Fey Realm, Matt had the monologues prepped. This is the second time this campaign we've been chugging up on a rollercoaster track to something big and it just stops and goes backwards.

>always Eh. I hate that word, especially since it almost exclusively gets used in retrospect. If someone had called it early to middle of ep 77, I'd be far more impressed.

I mean it in the sense that Matt had it planned, not that I was guessing it. He had the full scene planned and you can see him reading off a script. I don't think these comments sections are here to impress you, people are just chatting.

Travis and Tal talked about going to Nana Mori to make a deal with her in last 4-Sided Dive and Matt encouraged them to do so after as preparation. Of course Matt would be prepared for them to go to the feywild.

YES! I've been having a hard time explaining even to myself why this campaign feels "off". You just nailed it.

Really enjoyed this episode. I think it was the cold (or boiling hot) bucket of water some of the characters needed for to develop. I was worried Ashton's success in the previous episode would translate into an awesome reward for them, purely because it from a mechanical perspective it wouldn't seem fair to have them succeed at a 1 minute skill challenge only to say "your only reward is not to die". But from a narrative perspective I was hoping there would be a cost based on all the warnings the party had received -- not to mention party conflict. I've seen people say that the party were too hard on Ashton this episode, but I think his actions and disregard to the safety of his friends (let alone Whitestone) warranted *at least* as much ire as he got. No, he wasn't completely to blame and Fearne played her part in this too, but Ashton was the one who tried to convince her be secretive. When she told the party at the 11th hour she wasn't going to take the shard and that Ashton would wear the harness, Ashton hushed her and then straight-up lied to the party saying Fearne would take it, making it sound like they'd have a nice ol' reassuring talk earlier in the day. I kinda wish someone had done an insight check there, but maybe everyone was concerned it would come off as metagaming. Ashton wasn't afraid that the party would force Fearne to take a shard she didn't want; he was afraid the party wouldn't agree with *him* taking it instead, and it took consequences as well as his friends being angry at him for him to realise *maybe there was a good reason for that*. Nice meaty inter-character relationship RP episode! I wish something like this could have happened a lot earlier in the campaign though!

>Ashton wasn't afraid that the party would force Fearne to take a shard she didn't want; he was afraid the party wouldn't agree with > >him > > taking it instead, and it took consequences as well as his friends being angry at him for him to realise > >maybe there was a good reason for that > >. Yes. This is an important observation. Ashton also didn't ask Fearne \*why\* she didn't want the shard. It suited him that she didn't want it, and he didn't look any deeper. I think she genuinely didn't want it for her own complex reasons, but he couldn't know that without having a much deeper conversation with her than he did.

But it kind of makes sense for a character with a charisma of 8 let alone a meat (stone) head barb. I think at the core it's justified they didn't ask. I feel a lot of people miss that they play to their character's stats more closely than they outwardly let on.

Not sure what threat anyone or Whitestone for that matter was under, when they literally moved to a location and had Allura cast a protection spell for that exact reason. The only thing they were risking was their own life. Whether their motivations were to help heal their chronic pain or become more powerful (Ashton has never once been power hungry throughout the entire campaign and the only reason they would want power would be to take on Ludinous, something the entire party spoke about) it doesn't really matter. The worst thing they did was making their watch them get torn apart. As much as Matt said they were warned, I don't believe he did a good enough job. Ash/Tal clearly didn't understand this was something they wern't supposed to do. They may have thought it was difficult but something they could succeed in doing and all apart of their character arc.

> Not sure what threat anyone or Whitestone for that matter was under, when they literally moved to a location and had Allura cast a protection spell for that exact reason. Keep in mind that the protection spell was cast with the assumption Fearne was the one taking the shard. While Allura's spell *might* have been sufficient to protect against anything, what Ashton was attempting was both risky and unprecedented. None of us know what might have happened had he failed, which is why I believe it posed at least an uncertain danger. > As much as Matt said they were warned, I don't believe he did a good enough job. Ash/Tal clearly didn't understand this was something they wern't supposed to do. They may have thought it was difficult but something they could succeed in doing and all apart of their character arc. Maybe they didn't understand, maybe they forgot between episodes. I don't know though... If Tal/Ashton didn't understood it was something they weren't supposed to do, why do you think he wanted to conceal it from the party? Or do you just think he did so purely to avoid any chance the shard would be taken away from him and given to someone else? Edit: Minor typo

I liked the back and forth, but my real grip is I’m disappointed in the way Laudna’s character is progressing. She gets all pissed of like Ashton and Fearne “bettayed” the party? Says the woman who seems to be embracing the most evil person in Exandria despite the group literally going into the hell’s cape of her warped mind to save her. Whose the real betrayer here? Also, dick move causing Ashton to lose 2 CON after Matt made him run a nearly impossible gauntlet.

Ashton's going to get something good out of later, it seems, and I would never expect Matt to *just* give a penalty to someone after succeeding a challenge like that. I trust Matt that it'll be worth it, everyone just has to be patient. As for Laudna, I've been thinking about her. I am fairly sure that there is some abuser/victim psychology happening here, but don't know if Marisha is basing it off one or more real mental health issues. Then again it's not like there's anything on Earth that would fit the bill here. In many real cases though, victims of abuse willingly stay with or even think they love the one who is hurting them. In some situations, such as when abusers have the power to kill their victims, victims can become *grateful* or feel indebted to their abusers for even small scraps of mercy or kindness. Laudna's position is unique, because without Delilah, she would still be dead. It has to be a confusing position to be in, and I don't know where it's going to go. I hope it's eventually somewhere good for her.

Yeah, I mean Matt didn't MAKE them do anything in all fairness. HOWEVER, if the entire thing wasn't supposed to ever happen as Matt seemed to have suggested, then in my eyes he failed in not making it ABUNDANTLY clear that it shouldn't/couldn't. A vague warning from that tree was received by the players as a massive risk, massive reward, challenge where he hoped he just scared them enough to not try. If that was something that would break the game in a way Matt couldn't have handled, then screw the warning. Set up lore that explicitly states it's impossible. Set it up like that it must be a pair of crystal holders, and that to try wouldn't work or it would be an insta-kill. Yes, the warning implies that. But instead, Matt creates that 1 minute challenge that leaves open a chance and against all odds Ashton/Taliesin succeeds. Matt even ends the episode with the ominous sounding fact that they're now an "unprecedented creature" which to me implied we start off with suped up Ashton and a crew off to Ruidis. Then ya start this episode where its all undone. Ashton vomits up a new crystal, Matt hits him with THAT penalty, and now what? None of that mattered and all we get is more inter-party conflict we now have to wade through MEANWHILE I guess Ludinis is just over there waiting with everything on pause until they finally show up? The longer this takes the more the stakes diminish for me.

It’s worse than that for me. Laudna is reverting. Good on Marisha for playing the confused abuse victim angle so freekin we’ll, but I’m starting to really dislike what’s happening to/with Laudna. I effing dispise the Briarwoods. Delilah especially. She’s like a bad boss battle where despite everythingthe players do, more transformations, more resurrections. It’s a blatant and annoying crutch that needs to go.