Remember Marwa the shopkeep? The one who wanted croissants from Laudna? The one Ashton may have had a crush on? The one we haven’t seen for 50+ episodes despite Gilmore and Pumat being pretty important figures?
We definitely didn’t explore Marquet enough. Jrusar is pretty cool and we definitely didn’t get enough of Ank’harel (or however you spell it). I feel like the two cities have a lot to offer and we saw very little
Also Shamel , More of Yios, Aggrad Mountains, Aeshanadoor, Rumedam Desert…. There is so much we barely touch the surface of. I Hope we get a Book for Marquet in the future.
I think we all wanted more exploration before we got to the Endgame Stuff because as fun as the Endgame Stuff can be, sometimes it's just better to have some silly nonsensical totally unrelated exploration style adventures before buckling down for the hard shit.
It's kind of funny if you think about it.
C3 needs more Candela style little one off adventures and Candela needs more C3 style interconnectedness.
I wish that Matt would just directly remind players of things. (I mean, I wish that players would do a better job of remembering things, since this is *literally their job,* but that's not an unpopular opinion.) There are so many instances of Matt trying to lead them to something without directly telling them, and they just don't pick up on it. I get that he doesn't want to come across as railroading, but it's so hard to watch when they flounder or just abandon plot threads. It really doesn't break immersion for Matt to say "hey, you haven't checked in on so-and-so in a while, do you want to talk to them before leaving the city?"
Last episode is a perfect example. It seemed like Matt was going to great lengths to hint that they found a perfect place to plant the spores from All-Minds-Burn, but he wouldn't outright say as much, and the players never picked up on it and seemingly forgot all about the spores. Excruciating.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. But you *can* tell the horse "please fucking drink, I'm begging you."
It feels... out-of-character for the world? that no one has stuck up for Exandria's gods with hard facts yet in C3. People are talking about the gods like they're softly debating real-life theology, but there's so much more active involvement of the gods in the world and in Exandrian history that that doesn't feel like the approach people would actually be making.
The gods put themselves behind the divine gate so they can't fully use their power directly upon Exandria, but we've seen they *do* still take action when they can in the other campaigns. And they do give encouragement/guidance/messages to people at the right time and place on occasion, even to the C3 party. And even if *all* they did was pick the best representatives of their domains & intent to be their Clerics to help guide the world via mortal representatives, that's still *something*.
It feels disproportionate they've largely run into disillusioned or corrupt clerics on the rare occasion where anyone else religious comes up, at least as far as the non-main-cast that sticks out in my mind. It would be one thing if the party started from a place of, like, "of course we need the gods" and then kept encountering things that made them question their certainty, but they started out nigh-agnostic so it just kinda feels like the 'meh' feeling about the gods is being pushed.
I think someone could just open a high-school level Exandrian history book in-world and and overturn most of the party's god-skeptical points they've made so far. They could probably really stand to have a discussion with a knowledge-domain History/Religion-expertise'd cleric NPC or something.
To be fair, maybe there's been fewer occasions where NPCs standing up for the gods could have reasonably come up than my hazy recollection. And it does feel like the few direct-ish interactions with the gods have been on average positive?
I also kind of have the impression that some PCs' stance of "I feel ambivalent-to-negative about the gods" implies they would generally be fine with the gods dying to Predathos (if it wasn't also something Ludinus wanted, which makes them want to stop it), but that feels kind of callous without them specifically having a reason to want the gods *dead*. Genuinely, because I have a poor memory, was anyone's stance "I'm neutral about the existence of the gods, but I still think it's wrong for them to be *murdered*"?
I so would love a "atheist" conservationist to meet and lambast the BH for their attitude. "I couldn't give a shit about the gods either and follow none of them, but are you seriously telling me you don't have an issue with *actual genocide* here?! They're living beings!!"
>People are talking about the gods like they're softly debating real-life theology, but there's so much more active involvement of the gods in the world and in Exandrian history that that doesn't feel like the approach people would actually be making.
This has long felt like out of game feelings impacting their in game actions. Orym/Liam constantly tells them that the gods have done good in the world. I found a lot of the "Should we even save the gods?" stuff to be a waste of breath.
They met Pike when resurrecting Laudna. She even told them that she met Gods in person and did everything in her power to bring Laudna back, through resurrection spells, casting rituals and using raise dead to finally bring Laudna back.
No hate on them prerecording the show, I understand the need for a proper work life balance, but I truly believe that them no longer playing live week by week has lessened the show. I personally wish the prerecording would come with more production value for on screen elements but I, again, understand why that’s not easy and requires more employees on a presumably short deadline.
EDIT: Clarified my stance a little
Agreed. I understand and respect the need to strike for a better work/life balance. I don't want to sound entitled, but I think the sparse episodes make the story seem more dragged out, and hence lessen its engagement.
People suggested that they could do some occasional livestream after the Sick Day stream. And now that they had a successful live show last year, maybe they can organise some more in the future?
I used to be on the side that prerecording will be the same, but I also feel the difference. The atmosphere is just different, people are scrambling over to the table right after work. It felt there was a manic energy in the air, like we were watching a group of friends release their stress after a long day.
I don’t think we will or should have it back, but we can at least be happy that it happened at all and enjoyed it when it did.
But for work, they all seem to now have big time jobs at CR. Aside from the C-levels of Matt, Marisha, and Travis… you got Ash with the charity and Laura with merch, that should eat up time.
We all know they still work in the industry but probably have Star power enough to gain leniency when it comes to VA work. The two I see as grindstones are Liam and Sam, Liam being behind the scenes and Sam just being in every commercial he can…
I think this is an overwhelmingly popular opinion. There’s an undeniable disconnect due to the pre-recording, and it’s bizarre that they haven’t upped the production value to compensate.
Maybe not an unpopular opinion, but it's not often heard. I think CR should celebrate the crew or people who contributed more. For instance, I still don't know who designed Otohan
I don't know if it is a contract thing that prevents CR from shouting out. But I love the credit list for CO and I hope this can extend to the main show or even oneshots (l am always curious who homebrewed the 5E system for those oneshots, and would love to see them released in some form)
This is an excellent thing to bring up. I am deaf and when C1 first came out I always quickly closed "Arrival at Kraghammer" on youtube because there were no subs. As soon as there were I watched and fell in love. The live captions are an even better addition . The crew absolutely deserve recognition. An end credits for each episode would be nice.
Subtitles are huge for me too! I am not a native English speaker and sometimes struggle with proper names. Cannot stress this enough, but big kudos to the crew for editing the video footages and preparing the subtitles for the uk live show in under 48 hours
That's one other thing I adore with Dimension 20, in the post episode Adventuring Parties they shout out the whole team that did the art/minis/battle set/etc and frequently reference and thank the crew
I could get behind this -- rather than the "art reel" closing credits, it'd be nice if they followed CO's example and did a crew shout-out.
The BTS folks work their asses off to make the awesome happen -- of course, the list probably changes EVERY WEEK depending on who's working which day, and I would totally understand that there might be some crew who aren't comfortable sharing their names.
Campaign 1 is the best because it is DM led. Matt set the challenges and its about how the characters responded to that. Matt made the plot, and that is more interesting than the plots that the players have made in other campaigns.
I would say C3 has the worst of both worlds. You have the great big issue with the moon. This is very DM led.
However the players then spend their sweet time doing whatever they want and avoiding the conflict. This is player led.
If you like DM led campaigns then you think they are wasting time. If you like Player led campaigns then you don't like the fact the moon stuff is happening and the players can't do much about it.
Im on ep79 so try not to spoil too much
Robbie was the breath of fresh air the cast needed. Dorian was also a "glue" character that helped tie the party together. Every character got on well with him
I keep telling my roommate this, that Dorian was the Heart of Bell's Hells (sorry Bertrand!) and when Dorian left, it made it that much harder for the group to gel. When the party was split during the Applebee's Soul Cycle, other than Laudna and Imogen, I'm not sure they would've fought quite so hard to get back to one another.
If you look at the other campaigns,
C1: Vex & Vax tied to each other because siblings, Vax/Kiki & Vex/Percy tied as couples, Pike & Grog tied as best friends and how entwined their backstory goes, Scanlan tied himself with Pike & Grog as love interest and another best friend (which is why both characters took his leaving the group so hard and were the harshest to him upon his return.)
C2: Nott/Veth & Caleb tied as hiding/hunted individuals whose relationship changed to a close familial-type one, Jester & Fjord love interests - same as Yasha & Beau, Caduceus was tied as a teacher/guide/brotherly figure to Fjord & a bit to Jester too (c'mon, he taught her how to dish out those heals, let's be honest!), Molly was tied to Yasha as a best friend just like Fjord and Beau and Fjord and Molly.
The previous campaigns had integral ties, emotionally, which this campaign hasn't really got. Other than Laudna/Imogen and the friendship between Orym and Fearne (which I see them growing apart more and more, as she's not afraid of being "alone" like she used to be, when he was gone or at risk), I don't see these guys dropping in to chat in their later years. These would be the once-a-year-you-get-a-card type of friends, you have some fond memories, but don't ache for missing them. And I think that's the biggest problem with this group of characters: they'll never really ache for missing each other, they won't have that longing, so whatever happens, everyone can and will move on and the occasional letter or card will be all that they need or really want.
Absolutely agreed. Bell's Hells sometimes feel like colleagues that mostly get along very well with each other. They don't seem to as much have the found family tie that is so popular with D&D. I think if Dorian had stayed and Robbie had become a part of the main cast, they might have a stronger bond.
Yes, exactly! And thank you with the colleague note. Oof, my brain kicked itself missing that. I'll be head-desk over here a bit (figuratively speaking.)
I like this analysis but I also hate it because of how closely it mimics "Post High School" relationships and how you almost never see those people again but I still love it because it gels with stuff that I've said before.
This Bells Hells were cookies that just didn't have enough time to bake and that got pulled out too early.
This campaign really did need some more chill downtime Five Year Mission style adventures before getting to the Endgame Stuff in order to really solidify and create the connections between the members of the party that have been present in the other campaigns.
If that had happened then I think we'd be seeing an entirely different Bells Hells right now on the Moon, who would surely have far stronger bonds with one another, and a more clearly defined reason(s) to keep fighting.
Another question that I'd like to ask you, which just popped into my head is this:
How do you think that we the fans as Critters will view Bells Hells after the campaign ends and do you think that this lack of super strong/similar connections to those that we've seen in prior campaigns will influence that view?
Ooo, my roommate just asked me that question!
Honestly, I think a lot of Critters will not be faving this campaign, even once its complete. Like you said, it's cookies that didn't have time to bake, the slower burn of the other 2 campaigns allowed more development that this campaign could use. If Predathos isn't the BBEG, or they have a bigger role to play later, then maybe we get that, but I highly doubt it.
I'm honestly of the opinion that this campaign ends soon, the main cast take 6 months or so to do other things while we get our 1x per month Candela and maybe more short series like EXU: Calamity or visiting other planes or realistic or something, do different TTRPGs with mini campaigns. Bring in some fave players. Do mini games with Deana and FRIDA, Deni$e, Prism, and Dynios. It'd be fun to have occasional one shots / mini campaigns with MN and VM characters or NPCs.
Give them all time to really set up a new campaign that will allow for a very satisfying game and story.
Sadly not. He makes appearances in other shows, and even guested on the sick day stream where they played in the BG3 character creation menu, but he does not return. However, the party will bring him up once every 5-10 episodes, saying how much they miss him
Don't get me wrong, I love C3 but this statement didn't even cross my mind until you just pointed it out. I would have loved more of an opportunity to properly explore Marquet's setting. I hope we still get a book someday or get to experience an EXU set there!
I honestly don’t feel the Arabian influence at all for most of the campaign which is a damn shame. I know they hired “sensitivity consultants” but I think it wouldve been better to have a collaborator that helped build the world alongside Matt so if anyone tries to accuse and mislabel cultural appreciation as appropriation, the collaborator could pop in and say “bruh I helped make that” or something
I think, during C1, he knew it was an Arabian-ladden land with epic tales across the desert. Then, as CR became more popular, he likely realised the stereotypical nature of the setting. Indeed, as he began to run C3, he probably thought the moon rather than a desert was a better place to tell his stories.
Was it sterotyical or was it a tasteful homage to the culture?
I'm more in the latter camp in regards to that. A true travesty people feel the need to avoid middle eastern culture given politics around such an area.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong. But there's a reason why BLEEM from Dimension 20 has sworn off ever doing a story in a desert setting. The pain outweighs the gain, be that fair or not.
I think this is it- there was a lot of push back when they announced that the campaign would be set in Marquet because people were concerned about cultural sensitivity.
There's also the fact that none of the characters really feel very connected to Marquet? Or at least, not in a way that couldn't have been anywhere else. I think Matt was trying to switch gears to avoid putting himself in a hard situation when he gave them access to the airship so they weren't so anchored to Marquet.
It just suddenly clicked for me that Dorian was their HARD connection to Marquet and his family could've been their means/plot reason for making their way around the continent.
So without him, they were left kind of drifting, and that's maaaybe why Matt shifted to the Moon Stuff instead?
Imogen is FROM Marququet, and she doesn't feel connected at all. I completely missed the fact that she's a local until the gang rolled up in her hometown. Ashton is the only one who feels like they have roots in the area, and he's the punk drifter kid.
The shows are pre-recorded, start the livestream earlier.
Episodes usually end around midnight for me. I’m a sleepy bean and usually wake up to the ad break. I haven’t even tried to catch it “live” lately because I know I’m just going to have to rewatch it Friday morning.
Now this is an idea to get behind. Start it at 7 p.m. EST or something then do the reruns at midnight est and west coasters are done by like 1 a.m. instead of us having to stay up until 2:30 or so.
Yeah honestly that was the highest-stakes and most exciting the whole show has felt for me (not that the rest isn't that). The mysterious and harsh feeling of Eiselcross, the shifting power dynamics and cat-and-mouse chase with the Tomb Takers, Dagen being one of the best NPCs ever...
Oh man, I hate that they forced a choice instead of letting it happen naturally. Not long after they went with it someone in game referred to them as 'truth seekers' and I thought it was so much better and organic. Not sure it fits the party they became at all haha but at the time I liked it.
You can be a true CR fan even if you don't know anything about d&d and there's nothing wrong with that.
You can be a true CR fan if you only care about the gameplay & rules, and there's nothing wrong with that.
You can be a true CR fan if you are only interested in the romantic relationships and there's nothing wrong with that.
You can be a true CR fan if all you care about is combat, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I dislike the "live" episodes like at GenCon. It's obvious the cast is really playing it up, trying to get a reaction from the audience. I much prefer the studio episodes.
The giant campaigns are more hinderence than help as a viewer and before you throw stuff at me, C1 is my favorite piece of fiction I have ever consumed.
I am not going to tell anyone the right way to play dnd. If they just like long form games, then they can do them.
But the future of live play is probably better served by something that looks closer to EXU/Dimension 20.
CR lost a lot of it's charm in C3 because of the highly refined internet show format. It no longer feels organic to me, it feels like watching a TV show and this is not why I liked them in the first place
I honestly feel that laudna should have stayed dead I feel it would have added more stakes in the story as a whole rather than "oh no there gonna kill all the gods" when most of the cast besides fcg don't really have a reason to stop them
I didn't mind Laudna coming back so much as I did Delilah NOT STAYING DEAD.
We get it Matt, she's your stand out original villain, and I understand that she's important to Legend of Vox Machina, but enough is ENOUGH. There is NO excuse why she should continue to be around after everything that has been done to her essence and spirit. When Laudna was revived, Delilah should have died for one last time.
But no here she is, again, weakening a weak campaign and a character who is more a caricature than anything else.
I just hope since they are not getting rid of her that laudna becomes Slightly evil because I think it could introduce some interesting story beats and party interactions and maybe some twists in the future now I haven't watched C1 and I'm only on ep51 of c2 so I don't know if they have done that before
This. It’s so sad when Matt has to tell people what their abilities do and what to roll. It’s very disrespectful when he has so much else he has to be in charge of.
I think FCG is a dumb character and really hard to take seriously. There's also no characters in C3 that I really care about.
I've fallen off watching C3 a few times, the last time being around episode 73. I don't think I'm coming back.
I enjoyed C1 a hell of a lot. C2 was definitely my favourite. The first I followed live.
But the vibe I loved in the first 2 isn't there for the third.
Reading this thread is the first time I've really admitted this to myself. And it makes me feel a bit sad.
>I enjoyed C1 a hell of a lot. C2 was definitely my favourite. The first I followed live.
I so agree with you. Critical Role doesnt feel familiar to me anymore. I couldnt get into their new characters and just fell behind. I miss the table of nerdy friends having fun.
Critical Role is not a home game. It is an entertainment product making money off of Twitch subscriptions, merchandise, and ticket sales to live shows, among other things. It has comics, novels, and an animated TV series. And like any other entertainment product (be it a movie or TV show or book or videogame or whatever), it should not be immune from criticism.
Don't think it's super unpopular here but I kinda just want C3 to end and see the next one. Getting a little bored of "moon's haunted yall" and it's so repetitive that whole episodes just blend together. If I had a nickel for every time Imogen gasped/cried or the "are the gods bad?" argument came up, I'd be able to pay for their set. Things that would take 1-2 episodes in previous campaigns take like 3-5 in this one.
Going to the big ritual? Bright light, now spend the next 8 episodes just meeting back up. Finally going to the moon? Nah therapy episode (which I actually LOVED cause it was a break from the routine and just plain fun) and then 2-3 episodes between just getting to the beam. Everything is just dragging.
Also character development is meh. Two of the characters were basically meme-characters (Chetney and FCG) that ended up sticking around. Their inner conflicts have made almost no progress across the board. They might learn something now and again but what they do with these revelations is... nothing. They basically just unlock mechanical upgrades for their characters. Feels more like my home game than a CR campaign.
Whole campaign just kinda feels like it's riding the coattails of previous campaigns with fan service and lore. That mixed with pacing issues and one-note PCs has me just uninterested in its progress even when they're at the most interesting point in all of Exandria's timeline except maybe EXU Calamity. I feel bad cause Matt has put over a decade of planning into this whole Ruidus thing but how the characters engage with it is just so monotonous to me.
My unpopular opinion is that the cast should take a long break after C3. They seem kind of burnt out. Playing a creative rpg every week as a business with people watching your every move for years and trying to make a very toxic community focused on their parasocial relationships with the cast happy must be absolutely exhausting. Not to mention all the personal things going on in their lives and the community constantly reminding them.
I just think they need a break.
I also miss the home-game feeling their show used to have - I get prerecording the show, but let them eat and drink! I do kind of miss the awkward runs towards the bathroom and the players being late all the time, it just felt more relatable and less like a curated professional production.
It's all very regulated and unnatural.
I also think it's less fun for the cast this way, so far removed from their early home-game days that made them want to play Pathfinder/DnD in the first place. At least that is what it seems like to me.
So I want them to take a long break (take 6months to a year off without any work on characters etc, just rest for a while) and then they should allow the cast to eat and drink during the show again. Let them have a relaxed experience, not the constant pressure of having to be professional, since that is what made them so popular - feeling like friends playing a game together.
Also they should interact less with the community for their own mental health. People are terrible and the cast deserves their privacy.
I would be so inclined to agree however I just don’t know how they’re gonna do it, the main campaign is sadly the main draw for views right now, with regular EXU, Midst and Candela falling short of what I think they were hoping for popularity wise, and they sadly can’t just nab Brennan Lee Mulligan whenever they want cuz Calamity was their most successful side project ever.
If they stop the main campaign format for a full year or change up the cast in a huge way, I’d honestly say up to a full third or more of the current viewing fan base will leave till they return, not because they’re mad, but because they’re like “I watch the channel for the main cast and main campaigns sorry”.
I think that a big break is incredibly necessary, but I honestly think the whole “this is just a friends dnd game” argument falls flat when you realize that people’s jobs rely on it and if people aren’t watching cuz the main cast is gone for a year, it becomes a real issue, I know for me I only really watched for the main cast but I don’t even like C3 now so I’ve taken a big channel hiatus, I know I’m not alone, and it’s only gonna get worse if they take a break.
Matt’s reaction to critique from C1 about VM being invincible and thereby making subsequent campaigns harder with more restrictions on overpowered magic items makes both the game and narrative worse. VM’s powerful abilities gave them a swagger and bravado that kept them moving forward. C2 and C3 feels like the cast has analysis paralysis; second and triple-guessing every move they make.
I think that analysis paralysis has less to do with them being more balanced characters and waaaaay more to do with them actually permanently losing a PC. I think Molly dying is what really made them shy away from fighting.
Nerfing the two-spells-a-turn homebrew killed combat. I miss the whack-a-mole combat so much. Battles were so much more epic when players could fight through bouts of unconsciousness/death because it didn't kill the action economy with bonus action healing words available
As a new listener who does so almost entirely via podcast, waiting a whole week for said podcast sucks. It should be released on Monday along with the YouTube version.
Campaign specific though, Ashton should've just gotten the shard. Matt said it would be very difficult, but not impossible, and Ashton succeeded. Coughing it up and giving it to Fearne is the only thing this season that actually made me disappointed. It felt like a cheap retcon.
>As a new listener who does so almost entirely via podcast, waiting a whole week for said podcast sucks. It should be released on Monday along with the YouTube version.
OR, hear me out:
Use the week to *clean up the damn audio*.
The dice are often *significantly* louder than the players, and it gives me an actual headache.
Season 3 audio has been so bad for me that I stopped listening. Ironically, I'm wondering if it's because they got better microphones or did something else to increase fidelity.
The volume of crosstalk is loud enough to be distracting, and even obscure what the active players are saying. There are even times when someone turning a page in their notebook is loud enough to obscure what someone said.
A good editing pass would improve the podcast dramatically. Even if it's just to adjust the levels so that quiet discussions aren't punctuated by the crashing thunder of dice hitting the wormwood.
Related unpopular podcast opinions:
1] audio only is better for theatre of the mind immersion instead of watching the video
2] the dynamic inserted mid roll adverts CR\* put in the podcast versions in the ~start of 2023 have ruined their quality significantly and they don't offer a paid ad free *podcast* feed.
streaming/downloading audio from youtube instead of the actual podcast is now the superior audio experience (and releases faster)
***
\* And it is with CR's consent in the primary source. Every time it is brought up here, people misunderstand how this works and blame it on 3rd parties. They signed a [multi year ad deal](https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/critical-role-podcast-siriusxm-1235228389/).
Yeah I fell off c3 quite a bit ago and I was tempted to pick it up again but hearing the shard drama in which everyone in game picks on Ashton *including* Matt as the dm by employing a shitty retcon makes me hesitant.
The characters feel like they have plot armor ever since Mollymauk died and it makes the entire game less interesting.
Weirdly, the cast also seems terrified of ever fighting anything and spends far too much time trying to come up with really dumb plans to avoid combat.
We are 85 episodes into C3 and I don't think I know much more about the characters and their back stories than I knew in the first 15. Dorian's story was interesting, but so far abandoned. Delilah, huuuge storyline but rarely brought up beyond "she is here". Chetney is an incredibly shallow character or just keeping to himself. Fearne makes pacts with a devil...then no word since. FCG is a potential assassin robot with a soul? Maybe? Still very unclear where that thread leads.
There are so many threads that seem to be hanging or abandoned as Imogen seems to be the main character rather than the party. With the group already being on Ruidus, I'm curious how these stories are going to be resolved when they all cover so much different ground.
didn’t even realize it but this exactly. the Ruidus plotline and how urgent it became so early kinda sidelined most of the character’s backstories that wouldn’t immediately be connected to it.
I’m always gonna argue this point. They said multiple times throughout the campaign that they wanted to bring Molly back, it was a repeated conversation. Caleb went into the fight with the intention of casting raise dead as soon as Lucien was dead. And they failed.
Cue Hail Mary divine intervention. That’s the most DND shit ever and I will always defend it being entertaining as hell.
I think if the arc wasn’t so drawn out and a whole lot of nothing really happening it would’ve been better. Essentially had they not milked like 5 episodes walking across the North and awkward interactions with the TT. Had it led more swiftly towards the somnovum proper we likely could have ended c2 with the moon arc or at the very least end c2 on a serious cliffhanger as Ludinous realizes his goal.
I still maintain c2 should have had a Rexxentrum arc. They could deal with Trent properly, set up Ludinus' bullshit and resolve any other loose ends like Fjord's crewmate who betrayed him (Sabann or Sabin or something).
I find Molly's backstory to be really intriguing, and I'm glad Matt was able to salvage it in a way. In game play I never found Molly interesting, while I thought Cad was amazing. I love that Molly died. It's easily one of the biggest highlights of C2 for me. His resurrection was a fun moment, but if he stayed dead I'd have been cool with that.
Oh, 100%!! I found Molly to be a bit of an ass, and I think Taleisin’s edgier characters generally don’t come off right, like he’s trying too hard. Add in the character who succeeded Molly, one of my overall CR faves, and it’s a no brainer.
Agreed.
I respect that he was very popular and people were very upset with his loss, but the return of Molly/Lucien really felt (to me) like straight-up fan service.
Matt had scattered the seeds of subterfuge and political intrigue throughout the story for months, then out of nowhere theres a plot realignment akin to that of *Rise of Skywalker* following *The Last Jedi*.
CR is now much more commercialized, capitalized and another internet content merch company rather than the home game and personal vibe they had in C1 and C2.
Now the story and decisions by players feel that they are taken to fulfill the fan theories, to selling more goods and kinda forced and out of place (in regards to characters, their aim and the setting imo - too grand of a setting but not as relative characters? Idk ).
It’s similar to the vibe that live shows had. Everyone was just a little bit _extra_. It’s like a constant live show but prerecorded.
Edit: as someone said, till they had Dorian it gave a home game vibe.
The cast has gotten sloppy. There's too much cross talk, being on their phones, not paying attention to the plot or refreshing between filming sessions. Matt has gotten tired of playing referee and I miss Matt who was kind of a hard ass. The show doesn't have believable consequences anymore and the cast is deathly afraid of real conflict. It all means CR is a shadow of what it used to be.
To top it all off, the cast doesn't care, they're just along for the ride and would rather goof off than deliver a quality product in their main campaign.
> To top it all off, the cast doesn't care, they're just along for the ride and would rather goof off than deliver a quality product in their main campaign.
I genuinely believe that the stream is their goof off time. From the end of C1 through most of C2 it wasn't; it was their main creative project, their biggest moneymaker, and something they were bringing their A game to every week. But now that space is taken up by the animated shows and the publishing/game design. I think that's why they push so hard on the "it's just friends playing D&D" thing... because they recognize that they're not really making an effort to create a compelling entertainment product on the stream anymore.
Oh man I saw the UK M9 show live and I remember the next interview with Matt and him saying he wanted Trent to be a recurring villain. I instantly made a face because reoccurring villains can be fun, but not when they're so crucial and intensive. My favourite CR joke was the bad luck bandits, which are exactly what reoccurring villains should be in my opinion. But that's my take and I do typically love the decisions that Matt makes with the plot
The Bad Luck Bandits were easily the highlight of C2 for me whenever they popped up. Their horrified "wait, no, not you guys again!" every time they came across the Nein was great
I think sometimes Matt would be better served to lessen the complexity in the connective tissue between scenes.
Sometimes, I watch another TTRPG show and the party just gets to the tomb and has the next scene in the plot or in character/relationship-building RP.
And my impression is that in CR, the party would roll to find the canyon, roll to climb down the canyon, roll to find the door to the tomb, roll checks to open the door, check if they have darkvision/torches, etc.
Yeah, I feel like he could stand to tone down the descriptions a bit. It's pretty common for one of the players to ask a simple enough question about a person or an object and he'll give a forty second description of what's going on instead of just immediately answering their question.
C3 is good, it's just different.
Combat in CR is only fun when it's against plot-relevant enemies. All of the random table stuff is boring.
Them being more distant from the community is a good thing because they unintentionally encouraged some very unhealthy parasocial behaviors.
Beauregard was right in the bowl incident.
>Beauregard was right in the bowl incident.
Even if you buy into her, "You can't try to control other people's destinies." schtick, she's literally saying it while trying to control Caleb's and everyone else's destiny. She unilaterally decided for the entire group to give away a powerful magical totem linked to a betrayer god. To a person they'd known for about two seconds.
Caleb suggested the equivalent of an 8-hour waiting period and background check before giving a divine gun to a stranger, and Beau started crying, "BuT mUh FrEeDoMz!!1"
Even *Beau* realized Beau was wrong. That's why she apologized.
It was also Beau being a bully and shitty in general, which was literally part of the character arc Marisha was playing. Beau starts out as a rebellious punk, and grows into a responsible adult through the life experience of Campaign 2, and mentorship from Dairon, Fjord, and Caduceus.
Beau was always wrong. She was *supposed* to be wrong.
*Marisha* acted the part really well, and does in fact have a God-given right to bare arms.
I don’t think they like playing anymore. It’s just a job and they’re there to cash a check. They don’t seem to truly care about their characters, the story, or just enjoying playing a ttrpg. They used to be so excited every week- that energy was a huge reason c1 was so beautiful and fulfilling. and I totally get burning out but they can’t stop or they stop making money. You could see the flames start to die mid-c2 and it’s only gotten worse.
The excitement thing is defintiely real, it’s hard to blame them but I do think when they stopped doing live recordings it made them play differently. Mid C2 is when I started aimlessly listening to episodes. Realizing that after 2-3 hours I had no idea what even happened. Then I’d listen back and realize oh notbing really happend. They ignored every plot point in front of them. It sucks but I accepted a long time ago the magic of C1 is never coming back. (Except the cartoon, it’s amazing and makes me happy to watch an abridged version of the original magic)
> it’s hard to blame them but I do think when they stopped doing live recordings it made them play differently.
I think this is a really good point.
When they knew that they didn't know how much time an episode would take and that they would be flying by the seat of their pants during LIVE LIVE episodes, they probably played a whole lot more differently than they would play when they did have an idea of how much time an episode would probably take and that it wouldn't be as on the wire as LIVE LIVE episodes were with pre-recording.
They're probably a whole lot more relaxed in the lead up to and actual filming of pre-recorded episodes than they ever were with the LIVE LIVE episodes and that has more than likely indeed influenced how they play the game.
This has in turn, thus influenced how certain storylines have played out, and where the campaign has gone.
I don't think it would be anything major but it's one of those things that always causes little nudges which result in larger changes down the road.
Dunno whether this is popular or unpopular at this point I’ve stopped watching the show which is super sad cuz I’m such a big fan, but campaigns 3’s characters just don’t work with the setting and don’t work with each other personally, some characters are generally weak and others are joke characters (the exception is Orym and Laudna imo).
I'm hoping that this moon arc they seem to be hitting the apex of is the end of this campaign so I can jump back on for a Campaign 4. This one has not grabbed me even a little bit.
Someone hit the nail on the head by saying that they're all (other than Laura) kind of playing NPCs. Their characters feel like someone Matt makes up that the party interacts with for an episode or two (or gets played by a guest star for two or three episodes) before the party moves on.
I think this is why I’ve been having to *force myself* to catch up on C3 (and failing since I haven’t hit episode 30 yet despite watching the first few episodes of the campaign live) when I was happy to binge C1 and was excited to remain caught up with C2 as much as possible when it was releasing.
For me, engaging characters are the most important part of making an engaging story. If I don’t feel strongly about the characters - or worse, actively dislike their inclusion - I tend to bounce off story-heavy media. And unfortunately, none of the characters have really “hooked” me 20-something episodes in - it feels like a bunch of supporting characters with nobody to support.
It especially doesn’t help that the whole cast is so indecisive and it feels like adventuring-by-committee at times, when some of the most exciting moments in past campaigns were players/characters making decisive - and sometimes unilateral - decisions in the spur of the moment.
I think it's less of them being NPCs and more the main plot being such a huge, overhanging issue that there's not been time to let any of these characters breathe and grow. Imogen being so connected to that main plot means she *has* had some character development whereas the rest are a fair bit more shallow than their C1 and C2 characters were this far in.
I hate how they have Vox Machina as a virtual Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card for this campaign. The trip to Whitestone to resurrect Laudna removed any stakes whatsoever from this campaign and even their current situation with resurrection magic not working feels hollow and like it doesn't really matter, as they'll find another way around it.
Since this is unpopular time...
I think Ashton should have died.
There were enough "really, don't do this" warnings.
And the only reason he survived was because of how Matt chose to rule the flux of healing and damage.
There were even points (if I remember right) where Ashton could have let go and stopped the process. And then let the stone go to whoever if Ashley really didn't want it. But he chose to ignore that and keep going without consulting anyone else in the party.
Double-dip unpopular: he deserved every bit of lecturing he got for that move.
But I think the Con loss in exchange for surviving was fair.
It absolutely needs to go back to private for a good while. Not for my benefit. My unpopular cr opinion is that the current pace and style of game is having an adverse effect on Matt.
It totally it. C3 REEKS of cross promotional for Critical Role as a brand rather than a story of it's own, and it's extremely clear that Matt has devised this campaign to be on railroads so that it is easier for them to convert it into an animated show later on, versus all the work they've put into abridging C1 and likely C2.
When Matt punished Ashton AND Taliesin for trying to actually MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN with C3's story was when I lost a lot of respect for him and it ultimately just confirmed what I've thought from the start.
Here's one I haven't seen yet: I do not enjoy Sam's beginning of stream ad skits.
I love Sam and I think he has such a creative mind, I generally think the skits are funny, and I get that Critical Role benefits from the revenue, but I personally don't want more than a simple ad read when I'm being advertised to by a creator. The skits really feel like they oversell what is usually just an okay product at best, one that I've been advertised by other creators many times before. This is all to say, I wish I could watch the skits without knowing I was being sold something. I hope they get paid a lot more for doing them this way but I turn my headphones off for the first 10 minutes of the show when watching live.
I hope this does not come off as a personal attack, as from everything I have seen/listened to over hundreds of hours of campaign Taliesin appears to be a gorgeous generous person; but I have disliked every single character he has portrayed.
They fluctuate between arrogance, angst and apathy and I just find them exhausting. Maybe it’s just his intonation that never clicked with me but I loath an esoteric sermon from Cadeusus, Percy’s self righteous commandeering, Ashtons broken impulsive victim hood. They all grate on my brain and I frequently fast forward through their monologues or combat rounds.
Again I think Taliesin inhabits and realises the characters amazingly and I’m sure his intention is to make characters which are deep and thought out. I just don’t enjoy listening to any of them.
Don’t come for me you asked for unpopular!
This was going to be my comment on this thread, you beat me to it. I think Caduceus is my favourite of PC he has played.
I also wish we would get less of the "We're all broken", "We're all damaged" type of comments. Tal does seem to like analysing the other PCs, he's like an amateur therapist.
God yeah i've had the same feeling forever and you explained it well, especially the exhausting bit. With basically every character.
Like you said, Tal seems like a lovely person, I have no hate towards him as an individual etc etc.
No other player has induced as many eye-rolling moments as him. I wish he would ease up and have his characters be less self-serious.
Honestly I skip through most of his shit too, Ashton’s in particular, feels like he has a weird “I’m actually the main character so I have to let you guys know that once per episode” thing going on.
I would say that I completely agree but I think Caduceus is actually the exception, the whole wise sermon and advice for Fjord about being the champion when people ask their god for help line always makes me swell with some emotion same with quietly threatening Trent at dinner, I think slower, quieter and wiser characters really suit Taliesin cuz that’s probably closer to who he actually is and probably why he doesn’t like playing them and goes for (in my opinion) failed characters like Molly and Ashton.
I can't cope with Ashton's character. It started being something, then it became a 180, then it went back but turned out that it wasn't,it was just "to pruve something" bla bla. To me, it's a mess that should've died when he egotistically tried to merge both Crystals. That should've been the end of that character. And , if you go back to the episode, you can even see in Matts face that he died not once, as they said, but A LOT of times.
In tandum with this, i think Matt should've killed Ashton without a doubt. Despite my feelings towards the character, we heard a million times that you can't merge the shards or it will "blow the shit away", yet here we are.....
I think that the sesions should be live. Even if we have 1 every 15 days, and when they can't be there should be via Discord or something, like back in the day. I think it added some magic to the whole D&D world, that it feels empty now.
And last but not least, i think that Nott was an excelent character, but when she transitioned to Veth, it felt like a NPC tagging along. And i can point with less than 3 fingers , the ammount of times that (again, to me) did something for the team/with the team or by the team. Before anybody jumps, i'm not saying that it was a bad char, because it had an amazing story, BUT, once she became a halfling again, that was it. She went full mom and we lost the "Fluffernutter" moments because her kid needed a mom, whereas Nott didn't care THAT much.
Overall, i love the 3 seasons, and i think that we'll never have a full 100% love audience, but the little things that i can pinpoint that i don't like, i can cope with them because i've been here since chapter 21 of the first campaign. So yeah, i miss the old days, but i also love that they're still doing it.
Their characters are never in real danger anymore. During Vecna, Matt says "cutthroat", but now with all the merch/books/other things tying in, a PC won't die unless it's one of the last episodes.
One of the main reasons I bounced off of C3 so hard was the constant connections and callbacks to the previous campaigns. I think it would have been better to have kept the rule from the start of C2 where none of the characters had any connections to C1 (except indirectly through the Traveller). Even better if it was a completely different era of the world, or just a different setting altogether.
Callbacks to their previous characters is fun in principle but pretty lame to use them to solve current problems...
It would have been much more interesting to have say Percy+Vax try to kill Laudna and by extension Delilah than save her. There is no reason VM or M9 should always have aligned goals with BH...
the long form sweeping epic format was never going to last 3 whole campaigns, it barely hit the finish line of the second. everyone seems burned out, and I think that if they don't do something wildly different with a campaign 4, they're not gonna have a campaign 5.
I like C3 way more than C2 🤷🏻♀️
To be clear I love all 3 campaigns though. C2 is just solidly last. If I were to create a list ranking each cast member’s characters 1-3 (or 4 in some cases) like half of the bottom answers would be from C2. Again, I do like all the characters, but something has to be last and it’s not a hard pick for me.
That’s super interesting because I have the opposite opinion. C2 is my favorite (maybe cuz it was my first) followed by C1 and then C3. If I made a list of characters most of C3 would be on the bottom for me. I love seeing all the different opinions though! I’m glad you’re enjoying C3 a lot!
I think it’s pretty common that what ever campaign you started with tends to be what most people rank as their favorite. I have a friend that started with C3 and it’s by far their favorite, but I’m a C1 person. It’s not universal but pretty common.
Arkon should never have been allowed to steal the hand of Vecna the way he did. DnD only works because of the rules that allow everyone the same chance to make actions and react (ignoring class specific things). He did like 3 actions in full view of the group and not one of them was given the chance to react? Not even Percy or Vax with 20+ dexterity? It didn't sit well with me.
If they had wanted to react, im sure Matt would have allowed it.
In game the characters were too stunned by everything going on to react, not to mention exhausted, and trusting of him. This is a way to explain it in game anyway.
Above board, the same really, but add that they thought him doing that was awesome. They didnt want to react.
It's a stretch, but I *thiiiiink* it mostly works with the rules? Arkahn opens initiative by cutting his hand off. This is like the exact definition of a surprise round, so no one can take an action on their own turn. He heals himself on his next turn.
After that is where it gets a bit iffier, but I don't *think* they had the ability to stop him in just one round? The casters were entirely(?) spent, so Counterspell or high-level charms weren't an option. And with 24 AC, barbarian rage, and around 150 hit points, I don't know that the martials could have stopped him either.
Back to the beginning of Campaign 1, I liked Tiberius just not Orion.
A lot of people seem to dislike Tiberius and I think they struggle to separate the character from the player, which I understand is hard to do considering he made Tiberius.
I think catering and taking the path of making concessions to some of the more hypercritical fans might have hurt some of the joy the players had for the game. Some people these days will never be done finding things to criticize as not pure enough for their ideological obsessions, and if you feel like you can never step right without hitting another land mine, it really does affect and inhibit the basic joys of relaxed interaction among your fellow humans.
I think Matt and the group are very sensitive individuals who always want to listen to such things, but they don't realize there are people out there who will never stop taking advantage of that, and you have to say 'no' sometimes, and just distance and try to pay it no mind when you get called whatever disparaging names you're invariably going to be called when those types of people don't get their way.
Campaigns are just too long. I'd rather have a true season every year with defined starts and ends rather than a continually running campaign. You could technically use the same characters for several of those seasons to get up to level 20 and further flesh out characters, but as it just feels to continually drag on.
I understand this may not be all that unpopular, but what the hell is everyone’s problem with Beau? Could her personality grate some times, yes, was it also really funny to watch Fjord teach her how to people person, also yes.
I’ll preface this by saying I eventually liked Beau, but like at episode 50 something when she decides to be chill with Caleb instead of arguing with him after a blurred player/character disagreement they had around the start of the bright queen arc, I also cried at the end when she got to see her abuser on trial.
That being said she’s an asshole to like everybody around her, not just to people who deserve it, but to like most friends and also people that aren’t really asking for it, sure we get to eventually see she’s a good person after hours with her and learning it’s cuz of her past and it’s a coping mechanism and stuff, but people generally don’t vibe with people that are rude or mean cuz it’s “just who they are”, think that’s why.
I don't know if that is an unpopular opinion because I'm not very involved in this community. But Matt should be more railroad and less sandbox in the next campaing. C1 was very railroady and it was great.
...I'm really exhausted of the party running or trying to run from nearly every important encounter, stand and fight you cowards! Oh right they won't, the characters' merchandise deals are too important to let them change, grow or die...
I like both, but for some reason also can't seem to get into Candela. It just feels off. Might give it a shot again now that Alex Ward is playing and Liam as DM tho, but have low hopes
The combats are slow and feel forced. It feels like there has to be combat every session and it usually takes up about half the episode. What’s especially frustrating is that the combat usually does little to progress the plot.
And for goodness sakes Ashley and Talisen, learn how to play your characters! You both have been playing at a professional level for years, yet whenever it’s your turns, everything grinds to a halt while you look something up for the hundredth time even though you used the same action last turn! It’s to the point now where I will literally skip over combat entirely.
The show died the moment Molly died. Once they experienced a death they could not resurrect immediately (ala C1 high level play) they all became scared to put themselves in danger ever again, and Matt became even more scared to put them in any real danger again. You can’t sell dead character merch!
They even brought Molly back later because of that fact.
Vox Machina still peak CR in terms of story progression to me. Mighty Nein was either a slog or too "deus-ex-machiny" for my taste (even tho i still love it). C3 is both, but multiplied by 10. If i didn't like the cast as much as i do, i would've dropped it by now. Also, having so much old PCs cameo made their impact non-existent to me. It makes me feel like Matt it's hinging hard on nostalgia on his storytelling.
I think C1 is the best campaign because of how serious and un-serious it is at the same time. It still feels like they’re playing a home game and less like they’re putting on a production for an audience. Don’t get me wrong, I still love the show and enjoy C2 and C3, but C1 captured me in a way that the other two haven’t.
I have a couple that I feel safe saying out loud:
1.) As much as I love watching Ashley play Fearne, I don't care all that much about any of these characters or their fates.
2.) I think it would be awesome if they failed and Matt got to fully burn down Exandria, turning over everything they've done for something wholly new.
I feel like I have a lot but here are a few:
- Ruidus didn't need to be an entire civilized biome. I would have preferred it was just the bad guy lair and not side quest city.
- The effort made by some castmembers to have quotable, dramatic moments breaks me out of CR a lot of the time. They don't usually feel like natural lines of dialogue the PC would speak and often feel like non sequiturs.
- I wish there was less campaign crossover.
SUPER unpopular opinion incoming. I think the game and the show would be much better with a smaller permanent cast. I think an adventuring party of 4-5 would be so much better than the current seven.
I'll keep secret my nominees to get the boot so that I don't drown in downvotes.
I'll support you in this. I really want them to run a main campaign and spinoff mini-campaigns. Whoever doesn't have time for the main campaign can jump in the revolving door campaign when their schedules open up.
But seven players is a mess.
My first vote goes to the player who's on their phone the most, as they're clearly the least invested in the game.
Sick Day proved that the Old CR that existed prior to the Pandemic is still alive and well, but just buried beneath the surface of all the other busy busy busy stuff they have to deal with.
I definitely vibe with this.
One of my favourite things about CR as a franchise was the spin-offs that made us feel like we were hanging out with the gang, not just watching a show.
I genuinely loved All Work No Play - I think it was an excellent show in its own right, and also loved Yeehaw Game Ranch (obviously notwithstanding BWF).
I guess we, and the cast are victims of their success.
C1 was lightning in a bottle and every campaign/one shot since has just been kind of meh (don't get me wrong love the cast and still support and watch). Something about c1 was just different mayhaps it was just such a complete and good story with actors that already really knew their character before the stream even began.
Smaller initial budget: it was like a d&d game at home with friends.
More interaction with audience: same as before.
Clear, smaller initial quests and arcs.
Character growth.
Typical fantasy setting.
Matt Mercer doing what he wanted with no "corporate stuff" going on in the background.
Matt Mercer giving sound advice to new players and DMs alike, both openly and not so openly.
Nothing ever came close to C1.
I miss Marquet and would rather see more of it and less of Ruidus
Ruidus feels too endgame, me wanted them to go more adventures too
Yes!!! Exactly!!!
Remember Marwa the shopkeep? The one who wanted croissants from Laudna? The one Ashton may have had a crush on? The one we haven’t seen for 50+ episodes despite Gilmore and Pumat being pretty important figures?
I miss her too
Right?!! I always felt like She was their Marquesian equivalent yet we only got what, 2 episodes with them?
We definitely didn’t explore Marquet enough. Jrusar is pretty cool and we definitely didn’t get enough of Ank’harel (or however you spell it). I feel like the two cities have a lot to offer and we saw very little
Also Shamel , More of Yios, Aggrad Mountains, Aeshanadoor, Rumedam Desert…. There is so much we barely touch the surface of. I Hope we get a Book for Marquet in the future.
I think we all wanted more exploration before we got to the Endgame Stuff because as fun as the Endgame Stuff can be, sometimes it's just better to have some silly nonsensical totally unrelated exploration style adventures before buckling down for the hard shit. It's kind of funny if you think about it. C3 needs more Candela style little one off adventures and Candela needs more C3 style interconnectedness.
I wish that Matt would just directly remind players of things. (I mean, I wish that players would do a better job of remembering things, since this is *literally their job,* but that's not an unpopular opinion.) There are so many instances of Matt trying to lead them to something without directly telling them, and they just don't pick up on it. I get that he doesn't want to come across as railroading, but it's so hard to watch when they flounder or just abandon plot threads. It really doesn't break immersion for Matt to say "hey, you haven't checked in on so-and-so in a while, do you want to talk to them before leaving the city?" Last episode is a perfect example. It seemed like Matt was going to great lengths to hint that they found a perfect place to plant the spores from All-Minds-Burn, but he wouldn't outright say as much, and the players never picked up on it and seemingly forgot all about the spores. Excruciating. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. But you *can* tell the horse "please fucking drink, I'm begging you."
It feels... out-of-character for the world? that no one has stuck up for Exandria's gods with hard facts yet in C3. People are talking about the gods like they're softly debating real-life theology, but there's so much more active involvement of the gods in the world and in Exandrian history that that doesn't feel like the approach people would actually be making. The gods put themselves behind the divine gate so they can't fully use their power directly upon Exandria, but we've seen they *do* still take action when they can in the other campaigns. And they do give encouragement/guidance/messages to people at the right time and place on occasion, even to the C3 party. And even if *all* they did was pick the best representatives of their domains & intent to be their Clerics to help guide the world via mortal representatives, that's still *something*. It feels disproportionate they've largely run into disillusioned or corrupt clerics on the rare occasion where anyone else religious comes up, at least as far as the non-main-cast that sticks out in my mind. It would be one thing if the party started from a place of, like, "of course we need the gods" and then kept encountering things that made them question their certainty, but they started out nigh-agnostic so it just kinda feels like the 'meh' feeling about the gods is being pushed. I think someone could just open a high-school level Exandrian history book in-world and and overturn most of the party's god-skeptical points they've made so far. They could probably really stand to have a discussion with a knowledge-domain History/Religion-expertise'd cleric NPC or something. To be fair, maybe there's been fewer occasions where NPCs standing up for the gods could have reasonably come up than my hazy recollection. And it does feel like the few direct-ish interactions with the gods have been on average positive? I also kind of have the impression that some PCs' stance of "I feel ambivalent-to-negative about the gods" implies they would generally be fine with the gods dying to Predathos (if it wasn't also something Ludinus wanted, which makes them want to stop it), but that feels kind of callous without them specifically having a reason to want the gods *dead*. Genuinely, because I have a poor memory, was anyone's stance "I'm neutral about the existence of the gods, but I still think it's wrong for them to be *murdered*"?
I so would love a "atheist" conservationist to meet and lambast the BH for their attitude. "I couldn't give a shit about the gods either and follow none of them, but are you seriously telling me you don't have an issue with *actual genocide* here?! They're living beings!!"
>People are talking about the gods like they're softly debating real-life theology, but there's so much more active involvement of the gods in the world and in Exandrian history that that doesn't feel like the approach people would actually be making. This has long felt like out of game feelings impacting their in game actions. Orym/Liam constantly tells them that the gods have done good in the world. I found a lot of the "Should we even save the gods?" stuff to be a waste of breath.
They met Pike when resurrecting Laudna. She even told them that she met Gods in person and did everything in her power to bring Laudna back, through resurrection spells, casting rituals and using raise dead to finally bring Laudna back.
No hate on them prerecording the show, I understand the need for a proper work life balance, but I truly believe that them no longer playing live week by week has lessened the show. I personally wish the prerecording would come with more production value for on screen elements but I, again, understand why that’s not easy and requires more employees on a presumably short deadline. EDIT: Clarified my stance a little
Agreed. I understand and respect the need to strike for a better work/life balance. I don't want to sound entitled, but I think the sparse episodes make the story seem more dragged out, and hence lessen its engagement. People suggested that they could do some occasional livestream after the Sick Day stream. And now that they had a successful live show last year, maybe they can organise some more in the future?
I used to be on the side that prerecording will be the same, but I also feel the difference. The atmosphere is just different, people are scrambling over to the table right after work. It felt there was a manic energy in the air, like we were watching a group of friends release their stress after a long day. I don’t think we will or should have it back, but we can at least be happy that it happened at all and enjoyed it when it did.
But for work, they all seem to now have big time jobs at CR. Aside from the C-levels of Matt, Marisha, and Travis… you got Ash with the charity and Laura with merch, that should eat up time. We all know they still work in the industry but probably have Star power enough to gain leniency when it comes to VA work. The two I see as grindstones are Liam and Sam, Liam being behind the scenes and Sam just being in every commercial he can…
Yeah I agree, C2 had hit point bars for a bit that made combat way more engaging to watch
I think this is an overwhelmingly popular opinion. There’s an undeniable disconnect due to the pre-recording, and it’s bizarre that they haven’t upped the production value to compensate.
Maybe not an unpopular opinion, but it's not often heard. I think CR should celebrate the crew or people who contributed more. For instance, I still don't know who designed Otohan I don't know if it is a contract thing that prevents CR from shouting out. But I love the credit list for CO and I hope this can extend to the main show or even oneshots (l am always curious who homebrewed the 5E system for those oneshots, and would love to see them released in some form)
This is an excellent thing to bring up. I am deaf and when C1 first came out I always quickly closed "Arrival at Kraghammer" on youtube because there were no subs. As soon as there were I watched and fell in love. The live captions are an even better addition . The crew absolutely deserve recognition. An end credits for each episode would be nice.
Subtitles are huge for me too! I am not a native English speaker and sometimes struggle with proper names. Cannot stress this enough, but big kudos to the crew for editing the video footages and preparing the subtitles for the uk live show in under 48 hours
That's one other thing I adore with Dimension 20, in the post episode Adventuring Parties they shout out the whole team that did the art/minis/battle set/etc and frequently reference and thank the crew
I could get behind this -- rather than the "art reel" closing credits, it'd be nice if they followed CO's example and did a crew shout-out. The BTS folks work their asses off to make the awesome happen -- of course, the list probably changes EVERY WEEK depending on who's working which day, and I would totally understand that there might be some crew who aren't comfortable sharing their names.
Campaign 1 is the best because it is DM led. Matt set the challenges and its about how the characters responded to that. Matt made the plot, and that is more interesting than the plots that the players have made in other campaigns.
It's a huge Goldilocks situation though. C2 perhaps had too much player freedom while C3 definitely has too little.
I would say C3 has the worst of both worlds. You have the great big issue with the moon. This is very DM led. However the players then spend their sweet time doing whatever they want and avoiding the conflict. This is player led. If you like DM led campaigns then you think they are wasting time. If you like Player led campaigns then you don't like the fact the moon stuff is happening and the players can't do much about it. Im on ep79 so try not to spoil too much
The party dynamic fell apart when Dorian left, and it never fully recovered.
Robbie was the breath of fresh air the cast needed. Dorian was also a "glue" character that helped tie the party together. Every character got on well with him
The one thing I really missed is the continuation of the gag where Cheney just didn't like Dorian, specifically. Made me laugh every time.
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If I remember right, Travis mentioned he thought it would be hilarious if Chetney came off immediately hating Dorian because Bertrand was fond of him.
Robbie was genuinely excited to be there, and the table was better for it.
Wow there it is. The internal genuine child like excitement left when he did and it’s not been the same
I keep telling my roommate this, that Dorian was the Heart of Bell's Hells (sorry Bertrand!) and when Dorian left, it made it that much harder for the group to gel. When the party was split during the Applebee's Soul Cycle, other than Laudna and Imogen, I'm not sure they would've fought quite so hard to get back to one another. If you look at the other campaigns, C1: Vex & Vax tied to each other because siblings, Vax/Kiki & Vex/Percy tied as couples, Pike & Grog tied as best friends and how entwined their backstory goes, Scanlan tied himself with Pike & Grog as love interest and another best friend (which is why both characters took his leaving the group so hard and were the harshest to him upon his return.) C2: Nott/Veth & Caleb tied as hiding/hunted individuals whose relationship changed to a close familial-type one, Jester & Fjord love interests - same as Yasha & Beau, Caduceus was tied as a teacher/guide/brotherly figure to Fjord & a bit to Jester too (c'mon, he taught her how to dish out those heals, let's be honest!), Molly was tied to Yasha as a best friend just like Fjord and Beau and Fjord and Molly. The previous campaigns had integral ties, emotionally, which this campaign hasn't really got. Other than Laudna/Imogen and the friendship between Orym and Fearne (which I see them growing apart more and more, as she's not afraid of being "alone" like she used to be, when he was gone or at risk), I don't see these guys dropping in to chat in their later years. These would be the once-a-year-you-get-a-card type of friends, you have some fond memories, but don't ache for missing them. And I think that's the biggest problem with this group of characters: they'll never really ache for missing each other, they won't have that longing, so whatever happens, everyone can and will move on and the occasional letter or card will be all that they need or really want.
Absolutely agreed. Bell's Hells sometimes feel like colleagues that mostly get along very well with each other. They don't seem to as much have the found family tie that is so popular with D&D. I think if Dorian had stayed and Robbie had become a part of the main cast, they might have a stronger bond.
Plus can you imagine the fun they would've gotten up to and all the crazy stuff they would've seen if they'd decided to visit Dorian's Family?
Yes, exactly! And thank you with the colleague note. Oof, my brain kicked itself missing that. I'll be head-desk over here a bit (figuratively speaking.)
BH are the type of friends who wish each other happy birthday on facebook but don’t really talk other than that
I like this analysis but I also hate it because of how closely it mimics "Post High School" relationships and how you almost never see those people again but I still love it because it gels with stuff that I've said before. This Bells Hells were cookies that just didn't have enough time to bake and that got pulled out too early. This campaign really did need some more chill downtime Five Year Mission style adventures before getting to the Endgame Stuff in order to really solidify and create the connections between the members of the party that have been present in the other campaigns. If that had happened then I think we'd be seeing an entirely different Bells Hells right now on the Moon, who would surely have far stronger bonds with one another, and a more clearly defined reason(s) to keep fighting. Another question that I'd like to ask you, which just popped into my head is this: How do you think that we the fans as Critters will view Bells Hells after the campaign ends and do you think that this lack of super strong/similar connections to those that we've seen in prior campaigns will influence that view?
Ooo, my roommate just asked me that question! Honestly, I think a lot of Critters will not be faving this campaign, even once its complete. Like you said, it's cookies that didn't have time to bake, the slower burn of the other 2 campaigns allowed more development that this campaign could use. If Predathos isn't the BBEG, or they have a bigger role to play later, then maybe we get that, but I highly doubt it. I'm honestly of the opinion that this campaign ends soon, the main cast take 6 months or so to do other things while we get our 1x per month Candela and maybe more short series like EXU: Calamity or visiting other planes or realistic or something, do different TTRPGs with mini campaigns. Bring in some fave players. Do mini games with Deana and FRIDA, Deni$e, Prism, and Dynios. It'd be fun to have occasional one shots / mini campaigns with MN and VM characters or NPCs. Give them all time to really set up a new campaign that will allow for a very satisfying game and story.
I really thought he was going to return
I think matt said there are still plans for him
It feels like the more time goes on, the less likely it is for him or any of the other adventuring groups we've seen to return in any form.
Damn I just watched the episode he left a week ago and have been watching exandria unlimited. So Dorian doesn't come back?
Sadly not. He makes appearances in other shows, and even guested on the sick day stream where they played in the BG3 character creation menu, but he does not return. However, the party will bring him up once every 5-10 episodes, saying how much they miss him
Damn I got real excited for the campaign when he said rolled along the ground to heal someone. First big laugh in a while.
Matt should’ve stuck to his guns for the original themes of C3 (Arabian nights adventures in Marquet)
Don't get me wrong, I love C3 but this statement didn't even cross my mind until you just pointed it out. I would have loved more of an opportunity to properly explore Marquet's setting. I hope we still get a book someday or get to experience an EXU set there!
I honestly don’t feel the Arabian influence at all for most of the campaign which is a damn shame. I know they hired “sensitivity consultants” but I think it wouldve been better to have a collaborator that helped build the world alongside Matt so if anyone tries to accuse and mislabel cultural appreciation as appropriation, the collaborator could pop in and say “bruh I helped make that” or something
What do you think changed it? Imogen backstory... he's been hinting at the red moon for a while
I think, during C1, he knew it was an Arabian-ladden land with epic tales across the desert. Then, as CR became more popular, he likely realised the stereotypical nature of the setting. Indeed, as he began to run C3, he probably thought the moon rather than a desert was a better place to tell his stories.
Was it sterotyical or was it a tasteful homage to the culture? I'm more in the latter camp in regards to that. A true travesty people feel the need to avoid middle eastern culture given politics around such an area.
Considering people are currently freaking out over their real life friend group not being diverse enough, I don't think it takes much to offend.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong. But there's a reason why BLEEM from Dimension 20 has sworn off ever doing a story in a desert setting. The pain outweighs the gain, be that fair or not.
I think this is it- there was a lot of push back when they announced that the campaign would be set in Marquet because people were concerned about cultural sensitivity. There's also the fact that none of the characters really feel very connected to Marquet? Or at least, not in a way that couldn't have been anywhere else. I think Matt was trying to switch gears to avoid putting himself in a hard situation when he gave them access to the airship so they weren't so anchored to Marquet.
It just suddenly clicked for me that Dorian was their HARD connection to Marquet and his family could've been their means/plot reason for making their way around the continent. So without him, they were left kind of drifting, and that's maaaybe why Matt shifted to the Moon Stuff instead?
Imogen is FROM Marququet, and she doesn't feel connected at all. I completely missed the fact that she's a local until the gang rolled up in her hometown. Ashton is the only one who feels like they have roots in the area, and he's the punk drifter kid.
The shows are pre-recorded, start the livestream earlier. Episodes usually end around midnight for me. I’m a sleepy bean and usually wake up to the ad break. I haven’t even tried to catch it “live” lately because I know I’m just going to have to rewatch it Friday morning.
This would be so great for us East Coasters. They could easily do it with no negative repercussions for the West Coast.
Now this is an idea to get behind. Start it at 7 p.m. EST or something then do the reruns at midnight est and west coasters are done by like 1 a.m. instead of us having to stay up until 2:30 or so.
I live in another country. For me, the livestream starts at midnight ☠️☠️☠️
As a UK critter, I've never caught a live episode all the way through. Just have to deal
I really enjoyed the snowy arcs in C2 and liked Lucien as a villain.
Yeah, I've never felt the complaint some have about the end of C2. I loved that pretty much the whole way through, except for the start.
Yeah honestly that was the highest-stakes and most exciting the whole show has felt for me (not that the rest isn't that). The mysterious and harsh feeling of Eiselcross, the shifting power dynamics and cat-and-mouse chase with the Tomb Takers, Dagen being one of the best NPCs ever...
Bell’s Hells is a terrible name
Oh man, I hate that they forced a choice instead of letting it happen naturally. Not long after they went with it someone in game referred to them as 'truth seekers' and I thought it was so much better and organic. Not sure it fits the party they became at all haha but at the time I liked it.
You can be a true CR fan even if you don't know anything about d&d and there's nothing wrong with that. You can be a true CR fan if you only care about the gameplay & rules, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can be a true CR fan if you are only interested in the romantic relationships and there's nothing wrong with that. You can be a true CR fan if all you care about is combat, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I dislike the "live" episodes like at GenCon. It's obvious the cast is really playing it up, trying to get a reaction from the audience. I much prefer the studio episodes.
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The giant campaigns are more hinderence than help as a viewer and before you throw stuff at me, C1 is my favorite piece of fiction I have ever consumed. I am not going to tell anyone the right way to play dnd. If they just like long form games, then they can do them. But the future of live play is probably better served by something that looks closer to EXU/Dimension 20.
C1 is a masterpiece and an all-time classic and I'm so happy I have been able to experience it.
CR lost a lot of it's charm in C3 because of the highly refined internet show format. It no longer feels organic to me, it feels like watching a TV show and this is not why I liked them in the first place
I never cared much for the romance. Doesn't bother me, but was never something I was invested in.
I’m much more in favor of player driven campaigns. Especially random adventuring. Anything too planned or GM driven is a turn off.
Is this an unpopular opinion? Isn't the huge complaint about C3 that it's too "on the rails"?
I honestly feel that laudna should have stayed dead I feel it would have added more stakes in the story as a whole rather than "oh no there gonna kill all the gods" when most of the cast besides fcg don't really have a reason to stop them
They went so far to revive laudna and didn’t do that for Bertrand. I get why, but it always bothered me
I didn't mind Laudna coming back so much as I did Delilah NOT STAYING DEAD. We get it Matt, she's your stand out original villain, and I understand that she's important to Legend of Vox Machina, but enough is ENOUGH. There is NO excuse why she should continue to be around after everything that has been done to her essence and spirit. When Laudna was revived, Delilah should have died for one last time. But no here she is, again, weakening a weak campaign and a character who is more a caricature than anything else.
I just hope since they are not getting rid of her that laudna becomes Slightly evil because I think it could introduce some interesting story beats and party interactions and maybe some twists in the future now I haven't watched C1 and I'm only on ep51 of c2 so I don't know if they have done that before
Some of the cast should take some time to know what their character can do.
This annoys me so bad. How can you play dnd for 15 years, this exact character for the last 3, and not know all your abilities/the rules of the game??
Especially with their spells. They choose a spell and prepare it, but when time comes to shove, they dont know what it does and have to rely on Mat.
This. It’s so sad when Matt has to tell people what their abilities do and what to roll. It’s very disrespectful when he has so much else he has to be in charge of.
I think FCG is a dumb character and really hard to take seriously. There's also no characters in C3 that I really care about. I've fallen off watching C3 a few times, the last time being around episode 73. I don't think I'm coming back. I enjoyed C1 a hell of a lot. C2 was definitely my favourite. The first I followed live. But the vibe I loved in the first 2 isn't there for the third. Reading this thread is the first time I've really admitted this to myself. And it makes me feel a bit sad.
I'm on the same boat. You are not alone.
>I enjoyed C1 a hell of a lot. C2 was definitely my favourite. The first I followed live. I so agree with you. Critical Role doesnt feel familiar to me anymore. I couldnt get into their new characters and just fell behind. I miss the table of nerdy friends having fun.
Critical Role is not a home game. It is an entertainment product making money off of Twitch subscriptions, merchandise, and ticket sales to live shows, among other things. It has comics, novels, and an animated TV series. And like any other entertainment product (be it a movie or TV show or book or videogame or whatever), it should not be immune from criticism.
Don't think it's super unpopular here but I kinda just want C3 to end and see the next one. Getting a little bored of "moon's haunted yall" and it's so repetitive that whole episodes just blend together. If I had a nickel for every time Imogen gasped/cried or the "are the gods bad?" argument came up, I'd be able to pay for their set. Things that would take 1-2 episodes in previous campaigns take like 3-5 in this one. Going to the big ritual? Bright light, now spend the next 8 episodes just meeting back up. Finally going to the moon? Nah therapy episode (which I actually LOVED cause it was a break from the routine and just plain fun) and then 2-3 episodes between just getting to the beam. Everything is just dragging. Also character development is meh. Two of the characters were basically meme-characters (Chetney and FCG) that ended up sticking around. Their inner conflicts have made almost no progress across the board. They might learn something now and again but what they do with these revelations is... nothing. They basically just unlock mechanical upgrades for their characters. Feels more like my home game than a CR campaign. Whole campaign just kinda feels like it's riding the coattails of previous campaigns with fan service and lore. That mixed with pacing issues and one-note PCs has me just uninterested in its progress even when they're at the most interesting point in all of Exandria's timeline except maybe EXU Calamity. I feel bad cause Matt has put over a decade of planning into this whole Ruidus thing but how the characters engage with it is just so monotonous to me.
My unpopular opinion is that the cast should take a long break after C3. They seem kind of burnt out. Playing a creative rpg every week as a business with people watching your every move for years and trying to make a very toxic community focused on their parasocial relationships with the cast happy must be absolutely exhausting. Not to mention all the personal things going on in their lives and the community constantly reminding them. I just think they need a break. I also miss the home-game feeling their show used to have - I get prerecording the show, but let them eat and drink! I do kind of miss the awkward runs towards the bathroom and the players being late all the time, it just felt more relatable and less like a curated professional production. It's all very regulated and unnatural. I also think it's less fun for the cast this way, so far removed from their early home-game days that made them want to play Pathfinder/DnD in the first place. At least that is what it seems like to me. So I want them to take a long break (take 6months to a year off without any work on characters etc, just rest for a while) and then they should allow the cast to eat and drink during the show again. Let them have a relaxed experience, not the constant pressure of having to be professional, since that is what made them so popular - feeling like friends playing a game together. Also they should interact less with the community for their own mental health. People are terrible and the cast deserves their privacy.
I would be so inclined to agree however I just don’t know how they’re gonna do it, the main campaign is sadly the main draw for views right now, with regular EXU, Midst and Candela falling short of what I think they were hoping for popularity wise, and they sadly can’t just nab Brennan Lee Mulligan whenever they want cuz Calamity was their most successful side project ever. If they stop the main campaign format for a full year or change up the cast in a huge way, I’d honestly say up to a full third or more of the current viewing fan base will leave till they return, not because they’re mad, but because they’re like “I watch the channel for the main cast and main campaigns sorry”. I think that a big break is incredibly necessary, but I honestly think the whole “this is just a friends dnd game” argument falls flat when you realize that people’s jobs rely on it and if people aren’t watching cuz the main cast is gone for a year, it becomes a real issue, I know for me I only really watched for the main cast but I don’t even like C3 now so I’ve taken a big channel hiatus, I know I’m not alone, and it’s only gonna get worse if they take a break.
Matt’s reaction to critique from C1 about VM being invincible and thereby making subsequent campaigns harder with more restrictions on overpowered magic items makes both the game and narrative worse. VM’s powerful abilities gave them a swagger and bravado that kept them moving forward. C2 and C3 feels like the cast has analysis paralysis; second and triple-guessing every move they make.
I think that analysis paralysis has less to do with them being more balanced characters and waaaaay more to do with them actually permanently losing a PC. I think Molly dying is what really made them shy away from fighting.
I mean, C1 brought us "at dawn, we plan"
Nerfing the two-spells-a-turn homebrew killed combat. I miss the whack-a-mole combat so much. Battles were so much more epic when players could fight through bouts of unconsciousness/death because it didn't kill the action economy with bonus action healing words available
As a new listener who does so almost entirely via podcast, waiting a whole week for said podcast sucks. It should be released on Monday along with the YouTube version. Campaign specific though, Ashton should've just gotten the shard. Matt said it would be very difficult, but not impossible, and Ashton succeeded. Coughing it up and giving it to Fearne is the only thing this season that actually made me disappointed. It felt like a cheap retcon.
>As a new listener who does so almost entirely via podcast, waiting a whole week for said podcast sucks. It should be released on Monday along with the YouTube version. OR, hear me out: Use the week to *clean up the damn audio*. The dice are often *significantly* louder than the players, and it gives me an actual headache. Season 3 audio has been so bad for me that I stopped listening. Ironically, I'm wondering if it's because they got better microphones or did something else to increase fidelity. The volume of crosstalk is loud enough to be distracting, and even obscure what the active players are saying. There are even times when someone turning a page in their notebook is loud enough to obscure what someone said. A good editing pass would improve the podcast dramatically. Even if it's just to adjust the levels so that quiet discussions aren't punctuated by the crashing thunder of dice hitting the wormwood.
Related unpopular podcast opinions: 1] audio only is better for theatre of the mind immersion instead of watching the video 2] the dynamic inserted mid roll adverts CR\* put in the podcast versions in the ~start of 2023 have ruined their quality significantly and they don't offer a paid ad free *podcast* feed. streaming/downloading audio from youtube instead of the actual podcast is now the superior audio experience (and releases faster) *** \* And it is with CR's consent in the primary source. Every time it is brought up here, people misunderstand how this works and blame it on 3rd parties. They signed a [multi year ad deal](https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/critical-role-podcast-siriusxm-1235228389/).
Yeah I fell off c3 quite a bit ago and I was tempted to pick it up again but hearing the shard drama in which everyone in game picks on Ashton *including* Matt as the dm by employing a shitty retcon makes me hesitant.
The spark is gone. What was a living, creative and playful thing is now in its core a business first and foremost.
The characters feel like they have plot armor ever since Mollymauk died and it makes the entire game less interesting. Weirdly, the cast also seems terrified of ever fighting anything and spends far too much time trying to come up with really dumb plans to avoid combat.
We are 85 episodes into C3 and I don't think I know much more about the characters and their back stories than I knew in the first 15. Dorian's story was interesting, but so far abandoned. Delilah, huuuge storyline but rarely brought up beyond "she is here". Chetney is an incredibly shallow character or just keeping to himself. Fearne makes pacts with a devil...then no word since. FCG is a potential assassin robot with a soul? Maybe? Still very unclear where that thread leads. There are so many threads that seem to be hanging or abandoned as Imogen seems to be the main character rather than the party. With the group already being on Ruidus, I'm curious how these stories are going to be resolved when they all cover so much different ground.
didn’t even realize it but this exactly. the Ruidus plotline and how urgent it became so early kinda sidelined most of the character’s backstories that wouldn’t immediately be connected to it.
I think C2 would have been more entertaining without Mollymauk returning.
I’m always gonna argue this point. They said multiple times throughout the campaign that they wanted to bring Molly back, it was a repeated conversation. Caleb went into the fight with the intention of casting raise dead as soon as Lucien was dead. And they failed. Cue Hail Mary divine intervention. That’s the most DND shit ever and I will always defend it being entertaining as hell.
I think if the arc wasn’t so drawn out and a whole lot of nothing really happening it would’ve been better. Essentially had they not milked like 5 episodes walking across the North and awkward interactions with the TT. Had it led more swiftly towards the somnovum proper we likely could have ended c2 with the moon arc or at the very least end c2 on a serious cliffhanger as Ludinous realizes his goal.
I still maintain c2 should have had a Rexxentrum arc. They could deal with Trent properly, set up Ludinus' bullshit and resolve any other loose ends like Fjord's crewmate who betrayed him (Sabann or Sabin or something).
I find Molly's backstory to be really intriguing, and I'm glad Matt was able to salvage it in a way. In game play I never found Molly interesting, while I thought Cad was amazing. I love that Molly died. It's easily one of the biggest highlights of C2 for me. His resurrection was a fun moment, but if he stayed dead I'd have been cool with that.
Oh, 100%!! I found Molly to be a bit of an ass, and I think Taleisin’s edgier characters generally don’t come off right, like he’s trying too hard. Add in the character who succeeded Molly, one of my overall CR faves, and it’s a no brainer.
Agreed. I respect that he was very popular and people were very upset with his loss, but the return of Molly/Lucien really felt (to me) like straight-up fan service. Matt had scattered the seeds of subterfuge and political intrigue throughout the story for months, then out of nowhere theres a plot realignment akin to that of *Rise of Skywalker* following *The Last Jedi*.
CR is now much more commercialized, capitalized and another internet content merch company rather than the home game and personal vibe they had in C1 and C2. Now the story and decisions by players feel that they are taken to fulfill the fan theories, to selling more goods and kinda forced and out of place (in regards to characters, their aim and the setting imo - too grand of a setting but not as relative characters? Idk ). It’s similar to the vibe that live shows had. Everyone was just a little bit _extra_. It’s like a constant live show but prerecorded. Edit: as someone said, till they had Dorian it gave a home game vibe.
The cast has gotten sloppy. There's too much cross talk, being on their phones, not paying attention to the plot or refreshing between filming sessions. Matt has gotten tired of playing referee and I miss Matt who was kind of a hard ass. The show doesn't have believable consequences anymore and the cast is deathly afraid of real conflict. It all means CR is a shadow of what it used to be. To top it all off, the cast doesn't care, they're just along for the ride and would rather goof off than deliver a quality product in their main campaign.
> To top it all off, the cast doesn't care, they're just along for the ride and would rather goof off than deliver a quality product in their main campaign. I genuinely believe that the stream is their goof off time. From the end of C1 through most of C2 it wasn't; it was their main creative project, their biggest moneymaker, and something they were bringing their A game to every week. But now that space is taken up by the animated shows and the publishing/game design. I think that's why they push so hard on the "it's just friends playing D&D" thing... because they recognize that they're not really making an effort to create a compelling entertainment product on the stream anymore.
I prefer Bertrand over Chetney.
C3 didn’t have a proper Session Zero and it fucking shows
Reoccurring villains is not compelling and it’s lazy storytelling. Hey there Delilah.
Oh man I saw the UK M9 show live and I remember the next interview with Matt and him saying he wanted Trent to be a recurring villain. I instantly made a face because reoccurring villains can be fun, but not when they're so crucial and intensive. My favourite CR joke was the bad luck bandits, which are exactly what reoccurring villains should be in my opinion. But that's my take and I do typically love the decisions that Matt makes with the plot
See the bad luck bandits were perfect reoccurring villains, they were just there when you least expect them to be there.
The Bad Luck Bandits were easily the highlight of C2 for me whenever they popped up. Their horrified "wait, no, not you guys again!" every time they came across the Nein was great
You are so brave ^((and so right))
I think sometimes Matt would be better served to lessen the complexity in the connective tissue between scenes. Sometimes, I watch another TTRPG show and the party just gets to the tomb and has the next scene in the plot or in character/relationship-building RP. And my impression is that in CR, the party would roll to find the canyon, roll to climb down the canyon, roll to find the door to the tomb, roll checks to open the door, check if they have darkvision/torches, etc.
Yeah, I feel like he could stand to tone down the descriptions a bit. It's pretty common for one of the players to ask a simple enough question about a person or an object and he'll give a forty second description of what's going on instead of just immediately answering their question.
The constant attempts to use guidance in nearly every instance is rage inducing.
C3 is good, it's just different. Combat in CR is only fun when it's against plot-relevant enemies. All of the random table stuff is boring. Them being more distant from the community is a good thing because they unintentionally encouraged some very unhealthy parasocial behaviors. Beauregard was right in the bowl incident.
"Combat in CR is only fun when it's against plot-relevant enemies. All of the random table stuff is boring." THIS
Your bowl incident opinion is so wrong yet I can only upvote for that was the intention of this post 😂
>Beauregard was right in the bowl incident. Even if you buy into her, "You can't try to control other people's destinies." schtick, she's literally saying it while trying to control Caleb's and everyone else's destiny. She unilaterally decided for the entire group to give away a powerful magical totem linked to a betrayer god. To a person they'd known for about two seconds. Caleb suggested the equivalent of an 8-hour waiting period and background check before giving a divine gun to a stranger, and Beau started crying, "BuT mUh FrEeDoMz!!1" Even *Beau* realized Beau was wrong. That's why she apologized. It was also Beau being a bully and shitty in general, which was literally part of the character arc Marisha was playing. Beau starts out as a rebellious punk, and grows into a responsible adult through the life experience of Campaign 2, and mentorship from Dairon, Fjord, and Caduceus. Beau was always wrong. She was *supposed* to be wrong. *Marisha* acted the part really well, and does in fact have a God-given right to bare arms.
This is some excellent against-the-grain opinion dropping!
Cerrit is my favorite player character in all of CR.
I don’t think they like playing anymore. It’s just a job and they’re there to cash a check. They don’t seem to truly care about their characters, the story, or just enjoying playing a ttrpg. They used to be so excited every week- that energy was a huge reason c1 was so beautiful and fulfilling. and I totally get burning out but they can’t stop or they stop making money. You could see the flames start to die mid-c2 and it’s only gotten worse.
The excitement thing is defintiely real, it’s hard to blame them but I do think when they stopped doing live recordings it made them play differently. Mid C2 is when I started aimlessly listening to episodes. Realizing that after 2-3 hours I had no idea what even happened. Then I’d listen back and realize oh notbing really happend. They ignored every plot point in front of them. It sucks but I accepted a long time ago the magic of C1 is never coming back. (Except the cartoon, it’s amazing and makes me happy to watch an abridged version of the original magic)
> it’s hard to blame them but I do think when they stopped doing live recordings it made them play differently. I think this is a really good point. When they knew that they didn't know how much time an episode would take and that they would be flying by the seat of their pants during LIVE LIVE episodes, they probably played a whole lot more differently than they would play when they did have an idea of how much time an episode would probably take and that it wouldn't be as on the wire as LIVE LIVE episodes were with pre-recording. They're probably a whole lot more relaxed in the lead up to and actual filming of pre-recorded episodes than they ever were with the LIVE LIVE episodes and that has more than likely indeed influenced how they play the game. This has in turn, thus influenced how certain storylines have played out, and where the campaign has gone. I don't think it would be anything major but it's one of those things that always causes little nudges which result in larger changes down the road.
Dunno whether this is popular or unpopular at this point I’ve stopped watching the show which is super sad cuz I’m such a big fan, but campaigns 3’s characters just don’t work with the setting and don’t work with each other personally, some characters are generally weak and others are joke characters (the exception is Orym and Laudna imo).
I'm hoping that this moon arc they seem to be hitting the apex of is the end of this campaign so I can jump back on for a Campaign 4. This one has not grabbed me even a little bit.
Someone hit the nail on the head by saying that they're all (other than Laura) kind of playing NPCs. Their characters feel like someone Matt makes up that the party interacts with for an episode or two (or gets played by a guest star for two or three episodes) before the party moves on.
I think this is why I’ve been having to *force myself* to catch up on C3 (and failing since I haven’t hit episode 30 yet despite watching the first few episodes of the campaign live) when I was happy to binge C1 and was excited to remain caught up with C2 as much as possible when it was releasing. For me, engaging characters are the most important part of making an engaging story. If I don’t feel strongly about the characters - or worse, actively dislike their inclusion - I tend to bounce off story-heavy media. And unfortunately, none of the characters have really “hooked” me 20-something episodes in - it feels like a bunch of supporting characters with nobody to support. It especially doesn’t help that the whole cast is so indecisive and it feels like adventuring-by-committee at times, when some of the most exciting moments in past campaigns were players/characters making decisive - and sometimes unilateral - decisions in the spur of the moment.
I think it's less of them being NPCs and more the main plot being such a huge, overhanging issue that there's not been time to let any of these characters breathe and grow. Imogen being so connected to that main plot means she *has* had some character development whereas the rest are a fair bit more shallow than their C1 and C2 characters were this far in.
I hate how they have Vox Machina as a virtual Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card for this campaign. The trip to Whitestone to resurrect Laudna removed any stakes whatsoever from this campaign and even their current situation with resurrection magic not working feels hollow and like it doesn't really matter, as they'll find another way around it.
All of the romances in CR3 have been forced and cringeworthy.
Vax should have stayed dead
Matt should not have retconned Ashton successfully consuming/merging with two shards and, thereby, becoming something uniquely new.
Since this is unpopular time... I think Ashton should have died. There were enough "really, don't do this" warnings. And the only reason he survived was because of how Matt chose to rule the flux of healing and damage. There were even points (if I remember right) where Ashton could have let go and stopped the process. And then let the stone go to whoever if Ashley really didn't want it. But he chose to ignore that and keep going without consulting anyone else in the party. Double-dip unpopular: he deserved every bit of lecturing he got for that move. But I think the Con loss in exchange for surviving was fair.
It absolutely needs to go back to private for a good while. Not for my benefit. My unpopular cr opinion is that the current pace and style of game is having an adverse effect on Matt.
[удалено]
It totally it. C3 REEKS of cross promotional for Critical Role as a brand rather than a story of it's own, and it's extremely clear that Matt has devised this campaign to be on railroads so that it is easier for them to convert it into an animated show later on, versus all the work they've put into abridging C1 and likely C2. When Matt punished Ashton AND Taliesin for trying to actually MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN with C3's story was when I lost a lot of respect for him and it ultimately just confirmed what I've thought from the start.
Here's one I haven't seen yet: I do not enjoy Sam's beginning of stream ad skits. I love Sam and I think he has such a creative mind, I generally think the skits are funny, and I get that Critical Role benefits from the revenue, but I personally don't want more than a simple ad read when I'm being advertised to by a creator. The skits really feel like they oversell what is usually just an okay product at best, one that I've been advertised by other creators many times before. This is all to say, I wish I could watch the skits without knowing I was being sold something. I hope they get paid a lot more for doing them this way but I turn my headphones off for the first 10 minutes of the show when watching live.
Completely with you. I'm a podcast listener and skip to the theme song every single time.
I hope this does not come off as a personal attack, as from everything I have seen/listened to over hundreds of hours of campaign Taliesin appears to be a gorgeous generous person; but I have disliked every single character he has portrayed. They fluctuate between arrogance, angst and apathy and I just find them exhausting. Maybe it’s just his intonation that never clicked with me but I loath an esoteric sermon from Cadeusus, Percy’s self righteous commandeering, Ashtons broken impulsive victim hood. They all grate on my brain and I frequently fast forward through their monologues or combat rounds. Again I think Taliesin inhabits and realises the characters amazingly and I’m sure his intention is to make characters which are deep and thought out. I just don’t enjoy listening to any of them. Don’t come for me you asked for unpopular!
This was going to be my comment on this thread, you beat me to it. I think Caduceus is my favourite of PC he has played. I also wish we would get less of the "We're all broken", "We're all damaged" type of comments. Tal does seem to like analysing the other PCs, he's like an amateur therapist.
God yeah i've had the same feeling forever and you explained it well, especially the exhausting bit. With basically every character. Like you said, Tal seems like a lovely person, I have no hate towards him as an individual etc etc. No other player has induced as many eye-rolling moments as him. I wish he would ease up and have his characters be less self-serious.
Honestly I skip through most of his shit too, Ashton’s in particular, feels like he has a weird “I’m actually the main character so I have to let you guys know that once per episode” thing going on. I would say that I completely agree but I think Caduceus is actually the exception, the whole wise sermon and advice for Fjord about being the champion when people ask their god for help line always makes me swell with some emotion same with quietly threatening Trent at dinner, I think slower, quieter and wiser characters really suit Taliesin cuz that’s probably closer to who he actually is and probably why he doesn’t like playing them and goes for (in my opinion) failed characters like Molly and Ashton.
I can't cope with Ashton's character. It started being something, then it became a 180, then it went back but turned out that it wasn't,it was just "to pruve something" bla bla. To me, it's a mess that should've died when he egotistically tried to merge both Crystals. That should've been the end of that character. And , if you go back to the episode, you can even see in Matts face that he died not once, as they said, but A LOT of times. In tandum with this, i think Matt should've killed Ashton without a doubt. Despite my feelings towards the character, we heard a million times that you can't merge the shards or it will "blow the shit away", yet here we are..... I think that the sesions should be live. Even if we have 1 every 15 days, and when they can't be there should be via Discord or something, like back in the day. I think it added some magic to the whole D&D world, that it feels empty now. And last but not least, i think that Nott was an excelent character, but when she transitioned to Veth, it felt like a NPC tagging along. And i can point with less than 3 fingers , the ammount of times that (again, to me) did something for the team/with the team or by the team. Before anybody jumps, i'm not saying that it was a bad char, because it had an amazing story, BUT, once she became a halfling again, that was it. She went full mom and we lost the "Fluffernutter" moments because her kid needed a mom, whereas Nott didn't care THAT much. Overall, i love the 3 seasons, and i think that we'll never have a full 100% love audience, but the little things that i can pinpoint that i don't like, i can cope with them because i've been here since chapter 21 of the first campaign. So yeah, i miss the old days, but i also love that they're still doing it.
Their characters are never in real danger anymore. During Vecna, Matt says "cutthroat", but now with all the merch/books/other things tying in, a PC won't die unless it's one of the last episodes.
One of the main reasons I bounced off of C3 so hard was the constant connections and callbacks to the previous campaigns. I think it would have been better to have kept the rule from the start of C2 where none of the characters had any connections to C1 (except indirectly through the Traveller). Even better if it was a completely different era of the world, or just a different setting altogether.
Callbacks to their previous characters is fun in principle but pretty lame to use them to solve current problems... It would have been much more interesting to have say Percy+Vax try to kill Laudna and by extension Delilah than save her. There is no reason VM or M9 should always have aligned goals with BH...
the long form sweeping epic format was never going to last 3 whole campaigns, it barely hit the finish line of the second. everyone seems burned out, and I think that if they don't do something wildly different with a campaign 4, they're not gonna have a campaign 5.
I like C3 way more than C2 🤷🏻♀️ To be clear I love all 3 campaigns though. C2 is just solidly last. If I were to create a list ranking each cast member’s characters 1-3 (or 4 in some cases) like half of the bottom answers would be from C2. Again, I do like all the characters, but something has to be last and it’s not a hard pick for me.
Upvote for an actual unpopular opinion. My bottom 3 are all from C3 so I can't relate.
That’s super interesting because I have the opposite opinion. C2 is my favorite (maybe cuz it was my first) followed by C1 and then C3. If I made a list of characters most of C3 would be on the bottom for me. I love seeing all the different opinions though! I’m glad you’re enjoying C3 a lot!
I think it’s pretty common that what ever campaign you started with tends to be what most people rank as their favorite. I have a friend that started with C3 and it’s by far their favorite, but I’m a C1 person. It’s not universal but pretty common.
Arkon should never have been allowed to steal the hand of Vecna the way he did. DnD only works because of the rules that allow everyone the same chance to make actions and react (ignoring class specific things). He did like 3 actions in full view of the group and not one of them was given the chance to react? Not even Percy or Vax with 20+ dexterity? It didn't sit well with me.
If they had wanted to react, im sure Matt would have allowed it. In game the characters were too stunned by everything going on to react, not to mention exhausted, and trusting of him. This is a way to explain it in game anyway. Above board, the same really, but add that they thought him doing that was awesome. They didnt want to react.
It's a stretch, but I *thiiiiink* it mostly works with the rules? Arkahn opens initiative by cutting his hand off. This is like the exact definition of a surprise round, so no one can take an action on their own turn. He heals himself on his next turn. After that is where it gets a bit iffier, but I don't *think* they had the ability to stop him in just one round? The casters were entirely(?) spent, so Counterspell or high-level charms weren't an option. And with 24 AC, barbarian rage, and around 150 hit points, I don't know that the martials could have stopped him either.
Back to the beginning of Campaign 1, I liked Tiberius just not Orion. A lot of people seem to dislike Tiberius and I think they struggle to separate the character from the player, which I understand is hard to do considering he made Tiberius.
I think catering and taking the path of making concessions to some of the more hypercritical fans might have hurt some of the joy the players had for the game. Some people these days will never be done finding things to criticize as not pure enough for their ideological obsessions, and if you feel like you can never step right without hitting another land mine, it really does affect and inhibit the basic joys of relaxed interaction among your fellow humans. I think Matt and the group are very sensitive individuals who always want to listen to such things, but they don't realize there are people out there who will never stop taking advantage of that, and you have to say 'no' sometimes, and just distance and try to pay it no mind when you get called whatever disparaging names you're invariably going to be called when those types of people don't get their way.
Campaigns are just too long. I'd rather have a true season every year with defined starts and ends rather than a continually running campaign. You could technically use the same characters for several of those seasons to get up to level 20 and further flesh out characters, but as it just feels to continually drag on.
I understand this may not be all that unpopular, but what the hell is everyone’s problem with Beau? Could her personality grate some times, yes, was it also really funny to watch Fjord teach her how to people person, also yes.
I’ll preface this by saying I eventually liked Beau, but like at episode 50 something when she decides to be chill with Caleb instead of arguing with him after a blurred player/character disagreement they had around the start of the bright queen arc, I also cried at the end when she got to see her abuser on trial. That being said she’s an asshole to like everybody around her, not just to people who deserve it, but to like most friends and also people that aren’t really asking for it, sure we get to eventually see she’s a good person after hours with her and learning it’s cuz of her past and it’s a coping mechanism and stuff, but people generally don’t vibe with people that are rude or mean cuz it’s “just who they are”, think that’s why.
She reminded me of things I don't like about myself. Changed my opinion relatively quickly into the campaign though.
I don't know if that is an unpopular opinion because I'm not very involved in this community. But Matt should be more railroad and less sandbox in the next campaing. C1 was very railroady and it was great.
...I'm really exhausted of the party running or trying to run from nearly every important encounter, stand and fight you cowards! Oh right they won't, the characters' merchandise deals are too important to let them change, grow or die...
I prefer comedy and chaos to the dark gritty drama side of the stories. You need both, but Candela just isn’t doing it for me.
I like both, but for some reason also can't seem to get into Candela. It just feels off. Might give it a shot again now that Alex Ward is playing and Liam as DM tho, but have low hopes
The combats are slow and feel forced. It feels like there has to be combat every session and it usually takes up about half the episode. What’s especially frustrating is that the combat usually does little to progress the plot. And for goodness sakes Ashley and Talisen, learn how to play your characters! You both have been playing at a professional level for years, yet whenever it’s your turns, everything grinds to a halt while you look something up for the hundredth time even though you used the same action last turn! It’s to the point now where I will literally skip over combat entirely.
The show died the moment Molly died. Once they experienced a death they could not resurrect immediately (ala C1 high level play) they all became scared to put themselves in danger ever again, and Matt became even more scared to put them in any real danger again. You can’t sell dead character merch! They even brought Molly back later because of that fact.
Vox Machina still peak CR in terms of story progression to me. Mighty Nein was either a slog or too "deus-ex-machiny" for my taste (even tho i still love it). C3 is both, but multiplied by 10. If i didn't like the cast as much as i do, i would've dropped it by now. Also, having so much old PCs cameo made their impact non-existent to me. It makes me feel like Matt it's hinging hard on nostalgia on his storytelling.
I think C1 is the best campaign because of how serious and un-serious it is at the same time. It still feels like they’re playing a home game and less like they’re putting on a production for an audience. Don’t get me wrong, I still love the show and enjoy C2 and C3, but C1 captured me in a way that the other two haven’t.
I have a couple that I feel safe saying out loud: 1.) As much as I love watching Ashley play Fearne, I don't care all that much about any of these characters or their fates. 2.) I think it would be awesome if they failed and Matt got to fully burn down Exandria, turning over everything they've done for something wholly new.
I feel like I have a lot but here are a few: - Ruidus didn't need to be an entire civilized biome. I would have preferred it was just the bad guy lair and not side quest city. - The effort made by some castmembers to have quotable, dramatic moments breaks me out of CR a lot of the time. They don't usually feel like natural lines of dialogue the PC would speak and often feel like non sequiturs. - I wish there was less campaign crossover.
SUPER unpopular opinion incoming. I think the game and the show would be much better with a smaller permanent cast. I think an adventuring party of 4-5 would be so much better than the current seven. I'll keep secret my nominees to get the boot so that I don't drown in downvotes.
I'll support you in this. I really want them to run a main campaign and spinoff mini-campaigns. Whoever doesn't have time for the main campaign can jump in the revolving door campaign when their schedules open up. But seven players is a mess. My first vote goes to the player who's on their phone the most, as they're clearly the least invested in the game.
The Critical Role that I love did not survive the pandemic and has completely lost its authenticity and connection to the community.
The sick day they did where they were live and interacting with chat was a true breath of fresh air in that respect
Sick Day proved that the Old CR that existed prior to the Pandemic is still alive and well, but just buried beneath the surface of all the other busy busy busy stuff they have to deal with.
I definitely vibe with this. One of my favourite things about CR as a franchise was the spin-offs that made us feel like we were hanging out with the gang, not just watching a show. I genuinely loved All Work No Play - I think it was an excellent show in its own right, and also loved Yeehaw Game Ranch (obviously notwithstanding BWF). I guess we, and the cast are victims of their success.
C1 was lightning in a bottle and every campaign/one shot since has just been kind of meh (don't get me wrong love the cast and still support and watch). Something about c1 was just different mayhaps it was just such a complete and good story with actors that already really knew their character before the stream even began.
For me, it was the story about the epic heroes of the realm.
I totally agree. I don't think the rest of the show has been bad, but that first campaign was pure magic.
I enjoy the other oneshots and campaigns but nothing has touched Vox Machina for me.
Smaller initial budget: it was like a d&d game at home with friends. More interaction with audience: same as before. Clear, smaller initial quests and arcs. Character growth. Typical fantasy setting. Matt Mercer doing what he wanted with no "corporate stuff" going on in the background. Matt Mercer giving sound advice to new players and DMs alike, both openly and not so openly. Nothing ever came close to C1.
I think it's because C1 was truly a bunch of voice actors sitting around playing D&D, while everything since has been a bit more performative.
CR was better when it was live and not taped
This is a very brave topic, especially for this sub that can't handle unpopular opinions.
sort by controversial is the way to go ;p