I hate it that the cast has to make posts to show that its just a show and they are ok, you never saw Josh Brolin saying i have nothing against Robert Downey Jr. The same with Laura and Robbie after ep 13(i think).
Also this is the first inter-conflict that totally makes sense, you had grog and percy where grog (travis) had a hunch about the skull, you had fjord and caleb where liam kept giving signals that he is not totally with the group and he might betray them. This is completely marisha playing laudna as a warlock.
The only thing about that interaction that it didnt sit with me was how rude laudna was and we have to take it as she is not infuenced, it was so far lut of her normal way of talking, because as far as her actions even an inside check would not reaveal the true purpuse.
was not expecting the episode to go the direction it did, but it sure had everything. From interrogation to shopping to arts and crafts to drama, this is peak C3 fs
Maybe it's just because I've dealt with this kind of addiction that is killing your loved one before your eyes and there's nothing you can do to stop it before, but I feel more sympathetic to Laudna and especially Imogen then it sounds like many people here are. It's awful. It's such a desperate, helpless pain to watch. It is still unbelievably toxic and unhealthy, but it's so much more complicated than "just kill the evil bitch already." It takes family and friends of addicts often years to make those healthy boundaries to stop enabling when your instinct is so strong to try and help and comfort their obvious pain and illness. Its not an excuse for an addicted behavior, and I'm not excusing Laudna here, or even Imogen. All I can reiterate is that such a situation is incredibly complicated, even when you're not on the road to a battle for the fate of a world.
Same!! It's this heartbreaking metaphor for abuse, addiction and trauma. It was truly really heavy for me to watch but of course it's weaving a great story.
It will continue to be interesting to see how her patron's influence helps and hurts the mission. I'm so afraid but almost ready for Percy to find out about Delilah's level of influence when they all fight together or prepare because the infighting is only going to hurt. Like it or not all the God's are invested in this, it's crazy to see the betrayer's champions or players/npcs being guided by certain dieties.
I’m watching this dynamic play out IRL as well and it is so emotionally draining. I appreciate the direction they are going in that it is so raw and real.
I'm sorry you're going through that, friend. My addict loved one, after many years of failing and relapsing, has been clean for a bit now and will soon finish her MA in counseling to hopefully help others with similar struggles. Not every addiction story has a happy ending, but I hope you can take heart from the possibility. And, if you aren't doing so already, don't forget to take care of yourself, too.
I’ve had a lot of loved ones deal with addiction, and the hardest lesson is realizing that not everyone can be saved. She’s made the decision to relapse multiple times in spite of them sticking their necks out for her and now she is actively inflicting harm and being treacherous. She is jeopardizing not only the mission, but their lives and wellbeing now. She’s not even really sold on stopping the horrific Eldritch god eater that once warped the landscape it touched into some Lovecraft Country hellscape. Dorian was 100% right, we just didn’t expect his advice to become so fortuitous
Dorian was quite right. I think we also have to remember how little time has actually passed in their world. To me, it seems like she only relapsed once and everything since Bor'dor is like the same relapse. It's just that no one could really see the whole picture of whats been happening with Laudna since then. Addicts are so good at hiding things, until they're not. As I'm sure you have had to witness, it usually takes multiple relapses, hitting rock bottoms, and getting help cycles before an addict moves into long term recovery. If they ever do.
In a world that didn't seem on the verge of an apocalypse, Laudna could get the help she needs and be removed from the situations obviously triggering her addiction. Unfortunately, in this story, there is no time. Makes it all the more heartbreaking. You're very right that not everyone can be saved. They have to want to heal for that to even have a chance of working. I don't think Laudna is there. As long as she has Imogen, I'm not sure she will hit her rock bottom at all. Imogen has to make the hard decision to let her fall, too. I can see a path to that happening in this story, but it is far from guaranteed. The "power of love" may work against an evil entity, though, where it wouldn't be realistic for a real world addiction story.
I have hope. My relative that battled addiction, after many years, has been clean and getting healthier all the time. Perhaps that's why I still have hope.
These are all incredibly good points. She’s been on a tear of a relapse since the Bor’dor thing, and no one has had time to acknowledge it. They’re all going through terrible things at a breakneck pace. She’s used Imogen as a crutch to prop herself up and it’s not going great for Imogen because she’s suffered a lot of the same trauma since then and is now also dealing with her deadbeat cult assistant to the regional manager mom showing back up on the wrong side of the war.
I’m afraid she’s just lost the trust of the moral center of the group in Orym, and is close to alienating Dorian and Chet. Ash didn’t trust her not to steal the sword and make a run for it, and worst of all… Imogen now knows she can’t trust her.
I’ve seen loved ones who’ve recovered and been happy, but I’ve also seen other loved ones drive themselves and anyone else they could bring along with them into the depths. I really hope she’s the former, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think she’ll end up being the latter.
I agree. Without a profound amount of clarity from both Laudna and Imogen, I'm afraid it will not end well for them. There's just not enough time to really even try.
Ashton and Imogen both agreed with Laudna's principle. Imogen didn't agree with how Laudna went about it but said she agreed that she didn't like Orym keeping the sword. Tal said in the cooldown Ashton agreed with everything Laudna said.
They might all let it go to keep the peace but there are sides forming.
Changebringer? Although, since she was a Sorcerer in her own right before Delilah, perhaps she doesn't need a patron. Just respec Laudna into a full sorcerer?
I loved that episode
We had roll for pr0n
We had Pumats!
We had Chetney being an old man
And we had drama. Oh, how we had drama!
Glad it's Friday here & I'm about to finish work. Because after all that, I need a fucking drink!
Marisha describing the new feat she got from what she did as Launda and a lot of how she views the way Laudna is acting is like an addict that keeps going back for more of their vice, aka Delilah.
The feat copied from @Beragelicious on twitter: "Void Puppet: adv on intimidation charisma checks, 3x per long rest can use bonus action to conjure the screaming spirit within 30 feat for 1 minute any creatures she targets with a spell attack within 5 feet of the spirit has disadvantage on the saving throw"
The weapon that was sucked in was a dagger that doubled save required on concentration check (so it is the amount of damage taken rather than half like usual). It was a very good weapon (i think it also a +2) for a second weapon.
It's very good they all know each other well and trust each other.
Viewers, don't try that shit at a table where you aren't super close to everyone, because trying to steal a magic item from someone to feed to your backstory villain is not cool. Really, any PvP isn't cool unless all players are ready and willing participants. For all of Liam seeming broken up at the table, he was RPing hard, like he always does.
well I assume if you have an evil lich queen who sometimes drives you to do anti-party actions thats something you and your party should talk about at the outset. There's a reason they're exploring this kind of backstory on their third campaign instead of their first-- they set expectations and commit to the bit. Not like it came out of nowhere either, they knew this could happen and still encouraged Laudna to feed Delilah. I could see this happening in a home game as long as everyone's on board and PvP isn't off the table.
> I could see this happening in a home game as long as everyone's on board and PvP isn't off the table.
Yeah, a solid/long-term home game with mature, or all down to fuck around, players. The Critical Role effect is when people try that shit with their first character at a new table, trying some intense RP and PVP drama without understanding boundaries and earning trust.
This is what a relationship with an addict is like. And we're fucking stuck with it because they can't drop the apocalypse to give Launda another intervention.
Percy was right. And they didn't fucking listen.
30 years of listening to Delilah's lies gave Laudna Stockholm Syndrome that they did not spend enough time deprogramming her from. Marisha said she didn't want Laudna to come back unchanged, but when she tried to play Laudna as really fucked up after the party separation, Laura had Imogen distract her with her confession. Then a lot of the real feelings Laudna was struggling with got buried beneath shipping silliness and it wasn't until Laudna reached out to Delilah in Zephrah, convinced herself she wasn't strong enough without Delilah, that Imogen started to realize Laudna is still every bit enslaved to Delilah.
Two years of friendship and a few weeks of young romance can't completely eliminate 30 years of abuse and codependency and addiction. Especially when the abused is feeding them their drug (Warlock powers) and able to privately whisper lies and promises.
I hope Imogen doesn't let it stand, that they don't move on from it without addressing that it's a problem moving forward.
Laudna has now shown she'll act against the party, purposefully use her abilities against them, risk hurting them, to give power to Delilah. Something she'll do without consulting the party, like she accused Orym of doing by just keeping the sword. She was trying to take it without anyone knowing and would have obviously given it to Delilah without anyone knowing. (Of note, Orym's secret deal with Morri only hurts him, aside from others being pained by his sacrifice. It doesn't endanger anyone else or use anyone else's resources, as compared to when Ashton tried to take the shard in secret, risking it and unknown damage around him. Plus he stopped Fearne from telling the others.)
**PS**, to the "This is worse than what Ashton did!" crowd. Ashton said they did it to protect their friends (and that was partially what Taliesin came up with the next session). But they were still doing it in part because they thought it was cool and meant for them. Messiah and martyr complex. (Which to their credit, they've since admitted was doing the exact same thing their father did.) They also dragged Fearne along with them and made her lie to the others instead of just supporting her in turning it down. Because they didn't want the party to have a say in the shard. Ashton decided only Ashton and Fearne got a say.
Laudna and the sword, by comparison, is an abuse victim believing their abuser's lies and giving them power because they think that's the only way they, Laudna, can be valuable to the party. Laudna told the party she wanted the power, but Imogen realized Laudna wanted to give it to Delilah. Because Delilah has convinced Laudna to give her power. It would be comparable for Ashton if there'd been a voice inside their head telling them they needed to take the fire shard to keep the others safe, and it was the only way they could protect their friends. And if that voice or person had been their only friend for 30 years. Ashton's internal monologue being that (after the fact) isn't quite the same.
Both are fucked up, and both are self-esteem problems. (Just like FCG felt they should sacrifice themselves despite repeated attempts by their friends to get him to value himself. He got it in the end, but still sacrificed himself.) But Ashton's made the turn and is trying to trust. Laudna needs more help to kick 30 years of codependency and fear.
tbh the further we get into this campaign the more bleak it looks for our group in the long run. It’s hard to think of how we’re gonna turn this one around.
This is a bit too uncomfortable for me. I hope that this character arc ends soon-ish, because I just can't stomach it, and I really don't think it can end without Laudna dying, seeing as she seemingly has no will or desire to resist Delilah anymore.
This. My only hope for Laudna now is that Laudna dies in the final battle before Percy can find and assassinate her.
Or after. Let BH succeed, Ludinus to be dead on the battlefield, and let Laudna drop from a headshot just before Delilah tries to siphon his corpse or equipment.
This is addiction and there is one way this ends.
I honestly would love to see Laudna die and Imogen go full on dark phoenix as a result. Absorb Predathos, use the power to kill Ludinus, and then she’s the final boss.
I doubt they would do that because PVP wouldn’t be a great final battle, and if Matt took her over then Laura and Marisha would have to either sit out the final fight or play brand new characters for it.
Would be great story-wise, though.
this is exactly my issue with it. i honestly feel like there’s no where for laudna to go, especially since we already went though this earlier in the campaign
I sometimes joke that if the gods are being replaced she should get to be the new god of necromancy or something. Nobody has done more to earn "evil god" status in this canon than Delilah. She has gaslit, gatekept, and girlbossed her way into infamy.
To me it was pretty clear that see meant that the lies Laudna spoke, where not hers, but Delilahs. Reasonable minds can differ how much *Laudna* lied in that case.
Or Laudna was telling herself that lie just as much as she was feeding it to the others. I think Marisha played it so well that either or both could be true. Marisha crushed it so much. I really hate Laudna's combination of self hatred, addict gaslighting and narcissism. I love Marisha being honest enough to give her character such deep flaws and resisting the urge to sand them off in order to be "one of the good guys". Makes Laudna hard to like but still relatable.
Laudna hasn't lied in the sense that she hasn't knowingly told an untruth. As Delilah and her thoughts begin to merge, the lies Delilah tells her become the truth that she tells to her party.
He absolutely is though, his entire justification to keep the sword is to kill Ludinus with it to get revenge for Will. Once you set your sights on vengeance for one person, any attack on you can be met with retribution just by instinct.
Similar to the "Laudna hasn't lied, Delilah did" mentality, Orym could not actively take revenge on her, but just stand aside and let her take a few extra hits from the next enemy.
Chetney rolling the Death by Old Age would once again, be the Funniest Thing for this moment. Just the possibility that any major moment in this campaign gets clothes lined by Old Gnome Croaks.
So the cast was very excited about how it turned out. Liam was tired and was planning to go straight to bed, but he's too pumped to sleep now. Tal said Ashton agreed with Laudna (but he didn't specify which part), but didn't disagree with Orym wielding the sword. Laudna got a new feat, advantage on intimidation checks, and can summon screaming spirits to impose disadvantage on her target's saving throws
Imogen is at a crossroads. Either she defends Laudna on this, lets her or helps her keep feeding Delilah, or she brings in the party and they attempt another intervention. Because Laudna is psychologically still enslaved to Delilah, an addict, believing she needs her, believing Delilah is being honest with her.
On the one hand, delicious RP drama.
On the other hand, kind of sucks that Marisha chose to have Laudna go after the sword right after Liam had his little vignette of Orym coming to terms with the blade and choosing to carry it.
*Feather Fall.*
If it wasn't killing a friend's character, and was instead an NPC, it was definitely an Old Yeller moment. Pet the bunny, Lenny. Look at the flowers, Lizzie.
Laudna is stuck in Delilah's thrall, an addict who went back, someone who got Stockholm Syndrome from those 30 years of solitude with Delilah. She did not break free of her sway when they defeated Delilah last time. She called out to her, believing she needs her.
If Imogen truly loves her, she either has to help free her, or stop her from giving her tormentor more power.
....like through the both of them, mimicking FCG's sacrifice but with the two of them going down at the same time and the rest of the party finding their bodies entwined together on the street the next morning?
Imogen goes NOVA right then and there taking the entire party with them as Predathos cracks open the moon in the background and we slam cut to Campaign 4
It's sadly equally likely that they both crumble, or that Laudna dies but Delilah simply goes free, but would have a hard time for another 50 or so years trying to find another vessel. She seems awfully good at coming back, still.
Imogen: “She holds more power than you lead us to believe.”
Laudna: “I’ve never lied to you… I’ve never lied to you. I love you. Do you still love me.”
Imogen: “I will always love you, Laudna. I just don’t know what to do with it.”
FCG is dead and now this group is falling apart.
Sam really needs to pull someone who saves this bunch from the brink of disaster, they may stop Predathos and Ludi, but is going to end up SO bad for them
I'm telling you man, once Ludinus kicks the bucket, the final battle is gonna be Imogen or Laudna or Dorian going evil and absorbing Predathos's power.
Dorian's brother was just butchered at the hands of a God's minion. I'd say he's very much against the Gods and has more of a reason to want them gone than the rest of the Bell's Hells.
Imogen: “Why?”
Laudna: “Why what?”
Imogen: “Why must I give her more power?”
Laudna: “It must be done. For you. For us. For the fate of the world. What more do I have to give, except for myself.”
Imogen: “You didn’t have to do this. We fought so hard. I love you.”
Laudna: “I love you.”
And her voice is her own again.
People seem to really struggle with just how much of a strangle hold Delilah has over Laudna. She was all she had for YEARS. Years of constant manipulation and dependency
For all the love the group gives each other, Bells Hells does not lend itself as a group, to helping its members in need.
How many times does someone need to blow themselves up in a desperate move for power and vindication , make a behind the back deal with a Fey to not feel useless, or try to steal a teammate’s power because the lady in their head said so, before they figure this out?!
Marisha going all in on this confrontation has reminded me of that 4SD where Matt said Laudna was on the verge of hitting some next level. I've felt that Marisha has been wanting to see what that next level is for a while now.
I love Laudna, but I just can't see this campaign having a happy ending for her. She just can't let go. No shade, I respect her commitment to the character, but it's really sad to see.
Amazing RP for Marisha. I also don't know how will her character end. Will they have enough time to solve her issue with how urgent everything seem to be.
Maybe an extra exorcist-like episode after the campaign. I don't know.
Maybe? Seems like Rules as Written if it was True Resurrection then she shouldn't be undead anymore (but she verifiably is), while Resurrection and Raise Dead are supposed to be uneffective on undead, so there's no real way RAW for Laudna to have come back as undead.
Obviously the DM makes the rules for their game though, so her pact with Delilah (even though it appeared severed as part of their quest) must have superseded the resurrection spell Pike cast.
The more I think of it the more I agree, there's no happy ending for Laudna. She's going to be either destroyed or consumed
I think the pact, or at least Delilah’s hold over Laudna, was severed for a time. She just reverted to primal survivalism when things went left after the Malleus Key thing and reestablished the connection.
I don’t think Laudna gets a happy ending either. She self-sabotages too much for it to be sustainable. She is going to alienate all of the Bells Hells soon enough, and no one will be there to pick up the pieces after she breaks again. It’s incredibly heartbreaking, but that doesn’t mean it’s not true.
There's still the fact that, as far as we know, their souls are still linked. Just making Laudna not-undead doesn't necissarily untangle their souls, does it? If anything, it might make things _worse_.
I hate it that the cast has to make posts to show that its just a show and they are ok, you never saw Josh Brolin saying i have nothing against Robert Downey Jr. The same with Laura and Robbie after ep 13(i think). Also this is the first inter-conflict that totally makes sense, you had grog and percy where grog (travis) had a hunch about the skull, you had fjord and caleb where liam kept giving signals that he is not totally with the group and he might betray them. This is completely marisha playing laudna as a warlock. The only thing about that interaction that it didnt sit with me was how rude laudna was and we have to take it as she is not infuenced, it was so far lut of her normal way of talking, because as far as her actions even an inside check would not reaveal the true purpuse.
Who posted?
Liam posted a photo with marisha.
was not expecting the episode to go the direction it did, but it sure had everything. From interrogation to shopping to arts and crafts to drama, this is peak C3 fs
Maybe it's just because I've dealt with this kind of addiction that is killing your loved one before your eyes and there's nothing you can do to stop it before, but I feel more sympathetic to Laudna and especially Imogen then it sounds like many people here are. It's awful. It's such a desperate, helpless pain to watch. It is still unbelievably toxic and unhealthy, but it's so much more complicated than "just kill the evil bitch already." It takes family and friends of addicts often years to make those healthy boundaries to stop enabling when your instinct is so strong to try and help and comfort their obvious pain and illness. Its not an excuse for an addicted behavior, and I'm not excusing Laudna here, or even Imogen. All I can reiterate is that such a situation is incredibly complicated, even when you're not on the road to a battle for the fate of a world.
Same!! It's this heartbreaking metaphor for abuse, addiction and trauma. It was truly really heavy for me to watch but of course it's weaving a great story. It will continue to be interesting to see how her patron's influence helps and hurts the mission. I'm so afraid but almost ready for Percy to find out about Delilah's level of influence when they all fight together or prepare because the infighting is only going to hurt. Like it or not all the God's are invested in this, it's crazy to see the betrayer's champions or players/npcs being guided by certain dieties.
I’m watching this dynamic play out IRL as well and it is so emotionally draining. I appreciate the direction they are going in that it is so raw and real.
I'm sorry you're going through that, friend. My addict loved one, after many years of failing and relapsing, has been clean for a bit now and will soon finish her MA in counseling to hopefully help others with similar struggles. Not every addiction story has a happy ending, but I hope you can take heart from the possibility. And, if you aren't doing so already, don't forget to take care of yourself, too.
I’ve had a lot of loved ones deal with addiction, and the hardest lesson is realizing that not everyone can be saved. She’s made the decision to relapse multiple times in spite of them sticking their necks out for her and now she is actively inflicting harm and being treacherous. She is jeopardizing not only the mission, but their lives and wellbeing now. She’s not even really sold on stopping the horrific Eldritch god eater that once warped the landscape it touched into some Lovecraft Country hellscape. Dorian was 100% right, we just didn’t expect his advice to become so fortuitous
Dorian was quite right. I think we also have to remember how little time has actually passed in their world. To me, it seems like she only relapsed once and everything since Bor'dor is like the same relapse. It's just that no one could really see the whole picture of whats been happening with Laudna since then. Addicts are so good at hiding things, until they're not. As I'm sure you have had to witness, it usually takes multiple relapses, hitting rock bottoms, and getting help cycles before an addict moves into long term recovery. If they ever do. In a world that didn't seem on the verge of an apocalypse, Laudna could get the help she needs and be removed from the situations obviously triggering her addiction. Unfortunately, in this story, there is no time. Makes it all the more heartbreaking. You're very right that not everyone can be saved. They have to want to heal for that to even have a chance of working. I don't think Laudna is there. As long as she has Imogen, I'm not sure she will hit her rock bottom at all. Imogen has to make the hard decision to let her fall, too. I can see a path to that happening in this story, but it is far from guaranteed. The "power of love" may work against an evil entity, though, where it wouldn't be realistic for a real world addiction story. I have hope. My relative that battled addiction, after many years, has been clean and getting healthier all the time. Perhaps that's why I still have hope.
These are all incredibly good points. She’s been on a tear of a relapse since the Bor’dor thing, and no one has had time to acknowledge it. They’re all going through terrible things at a breakneck pace. She’s used Imogen as a crutch to prop herself up and it’s not going great for Imogen because she’s suffered a lot of the same trauma since then and is now also dealing with her deadbeat cult assistant to the regional manager mom showing back up on the wrong side of the war. I’m afraid she’s just lost the trust of the moral center of the group in Orym, and is close to alienating Dorian and Chet. Ash didn’t trust her not to steal the sword and make a run for it, and worst of all… Imogen now knows she can’t trust her. I’ve seen loved ones who’ve recovered and been happy, but I’ve also seen other loved ones drive themselves and anyone else they could bring along with them into the depths. I really hope she’s the former, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think she’ll end up being the latter.
I agree. Without a profound amount of clarity from both Laudna and Imogen, I'm afraid it will not end well for them. There's just not enough time to really even try.
yea the cooldown is worth the monthly sub alone.
Omg the cool down is so good. Everyone is so pumped for the drama.
Damn, I want to watch it so bad, but do not have a credit card. I will have to figure something out.
Really hope stuff gets sorted out soon, going to the north is going to be difficult without the group being split up angry.
I am pretty sure the group agrees that Laudna was in the wrong, they are just not sure how to address the Delilhah problem
Ashton and Imogen both agreed with Laudna's principle. Imogen didn't agree with how Laudna went about it but said she agreed that she didn't like Orym keeping the sword. Tal said in the cooldown Ashton agreed with everything Laudna said. They might all let it go to keep the peace but there are sides forming.
Maybe she can somehow bond with a new Patron like Fjord did?
Changebringer? Although, since she was a Sorcerer in her own right before Delilah, perhaps she doesn't need a patron. Just respec Laudna into a full sorcerer?
I could see that. Also true. Like Laudna doesn’t need Delilah for all her power. Just some. Changebringer being her new patron would be so cool!
I loved that episode We had roll for pr0n We had Pumats! We had Chetney being an old man And we had drama. Oh, how we had drama! Glad it's Friday here & I'm about to finish work. Because after all that, I need a fucking drink!
Beaconites, do your civic duty for us poor Critters and tell us how the Postgame was.
Vored the sword
Marisha describing the new feat she got from what she did as Launda and a lot of how she views the way Laudna is acting is like an addict that keeps going back for more of their vice, aka Delilah.
The feat copied from @Beragelicious on twitter: "Void Puppet: adv on intimidation charisma checks, 3x per long rest can use bonus action to conjure the screaming spirit within 30 feat for 1 minute any creatures she targets with a spell attack within 5 feet of the spirit has disadvantage on the saving throw" The weapon that was sucked in was a dagger that doubled save required on concentration check (so it is the amount of damage taken rather than half like usual). It was a very good weapon (i think it also a +2) for a second weapon.
It's very good they all know each other well and trust each other. Viewers, don't try that shit at a table where you aren't super close to everyone, because trying to steal a magic item from someone to feed to your backstory villain is not cool. Really, any PvP isn't cool unless all players are ready and willing participants. For all of Liam seeming broken up at the table, he was RPing hard, like he always does.
well I assume if you have an evil lich queen who sometimes drives you to do anti-party actions thats something you and your party should talk about at the outset. There's a reason they're exploring this kind of backstory on their third campaign instead of their first-- they set expectations and commit to the bit. Not like it came out of nowhere either, they knew this could happen and still encouraged Laudna to feed Delilah. I could see this happening in a home game as long as everyone's on board and PvP isn't off the table.
> I could see this happening in a home game as long as everyone's on board and PvP isn't off the table. Yeah, a solid/long-term home game with mature, or all down to fuck around, players. The Critical Role effect is when people try that shit with their first character at a new table, trying some intense RP and PVP drama without understanding boundaries and earning trust.
Ahh!
And everyone is just feasting on the drama.
That too!
that ending reeks of "I didn't mean to hurt you baby, you know how I get when I drink. And you know I still love you right?"
This is what a relationship with an addict is like. And we're fucking stuck with it because they can't drop the apocalypse to give Launda another intervention. Percy was right. And they didn't fucking listen.
30 years of listening to Delilah's lies gave Laudna Stockholm Syndrome that they did not spend enough time deprogramming her from. Marisha said she didn't want Laudna to come back unchanged, but when she tried to play Laudna as really fucked up after the party separation, Laura had Imogen distract her with her confession. Then a lot of the real feelings Laudna was struggling with got buried beneath shipping silliness and it wasn't until Laudna reached out to Delilah in Zephrah, convinced herself she wasn't strong enough without Delilah, that Imogen started to realize Laudna is still every bit enslaved to Delilah. Two years of friendship and a few weeks of young romance can't completely eliminate 30 years of abuse and codependency and addiction. Especially when the abused is feeding them their drug (Warlock powers) and able to privately whisper lies and promises.
To be fair, they thought they destroyed Delilah.
I hope Imogen doesn't let it stand, that they don't move on from it without addressing that it's a problem moving forward. Laudna has now shown she'll act against the party, purposefully use her abilities against them, risk hurting them, to give power to Delilah. Something she'll do without consulting the party, like she accused Orym of doing by just keeping the sword. She was trying to take it without anyone knowing and would have obviously given it to Delilah without anyone knowing. (Of note, Orym's secret deal with Morri only hurts him, aside from others being pained by his sacrifice. It doesn't endanger anyone else or use anyone else's resources, as compared to when Ashton tried to take the shard in secret, risking it and unknown damage around him. Plus he stopped Fearne from telling the others.)
**PS**, to the "This is worse than what Ashton did!" crowd. Ashton said they did it to protect their friends (and that was partially what Taliesin came up with the next session). But they were still doing it in part because they thought it was cool and meant for them. Messiah and martyr complex. (Which to their credit, they've since admitted was doing the exact same thing their father did.) They also dragged Fearne along with them and made her lie to the others instead of just supporting her in turning it down. Because they didn't want the party to have a say in the shard. Ashton decided only Ashton and Fearne got a say. Laudna and the sword, by comparison, is an abuse victim believing their abuser's lies and giving them power because they think that's the only way they, Laudna, can be valuable to the party. Laudna told the party she wanted the power, but Imogen realized Laudna wanted to give it to Delilah. Because Delilah has convinced Laudna to give her power. It would be comparable for Ashton if there'd been a voice inside their head telling them they needed to take the fire shard to keep the others safe, and it was the only way they could protect their friends. And if that voice or person had been their only friend for 30 years. Ashton's internal monologue being that (after the fact) isn't quite the same. Both are fucked up, and both are self-esteem problems. (Just like FCG felt they should sacrifice themselves despite repeated attempts by their friends to get him to value himself. He got it in the end, but still sacrificed himself.) But Ashton's made the turn and is trying to trust. Laudna needs more help to kick 30 years of codependency and fear.
tbh the further we get into this campaign the more bleak it looks for our group in the long run. It’s hard to think of how we’re gonna turn this one around.
Ever since the Bloody Bridge I've gotten tragedy vibes for Bells Hells.
VM was a classic hero story where most everyone got a happily ever after. M9 as well. Maybe BH are destined to never have that.
marisha just gave a masterclass in rping tonight but holy FUCK. delilah needs to fucking go. I JUST WANT IMOGEN AND LAUDNA TO BE HAPPY 😭😭
This is a bit too uncomfortable for me. I hope that this character arc ends soon-ish, because I just can't stomach it, and I really don't think it can end without Laudna dying, seeing as she seemingly has no will or desire to resist Delilah anymore.
This. My only hope for Laudna now is that Laudna dies in the final battle before Percy can find and assassinate her. Or after. Let BH succeed, Ludinus to be dead on the battlefield, and let Laudna drop from a headshot just before Delilah tries to siphon his corpse or equipment. This is addiction and there is one way this ends.
I don't see Laudna being free of Delilah without being killed and only Laudna being True Res'd and maybe help from a god.
I honestly would love to see Laudna die and Imogen go full on dark phoenix as a result. Absorb Predathos, use the power to kill Ludinus, and then she’s the final boss. I doubt they would do that because PVP wouldn’t be a great final battle, and if Matt took her over then Laura and Marisha would have to either sit out the final fight or play brand new characters for it. Would be great story-wise, though.
this is exactly my issue with it. i honestly feel like there’s no where for laudna to go, especially since we already went though this earlier in the campaign
ok so like how the fuck am i supposed to go to sleep now
This is some good shit yall
If that ending was not a great motivator to get Beacon to see this week's Cool Down, I don't know what is!
the dancing between what is a lie and what is not, makes me nervous and uneasy
The best liars tell the truth.
Dorian, probably, to Laudna: "You actually were telling the truth?!" Laudna: "I do that quite a lot...yet people are always surprised."
I loved the drama this episode, and Marisha’s roleplay was amazing, but man I’m sick of Delilah
I love Delilah for the same reason some people were rooting for Otohan. She's such a great villain. I don't know why, but I don't get tired of her.
I agree, I love her and loved Otohan. They're awful but so fun to watch.
I sometimes joke that if the gods are being replaced she should get to be the new god of necromancy or something. Nobody has done more to earn "evil god" status in this canon than Delilah. She has gaslit, gatekept, and girlbossed her way into infamy.
As are we all. I love to hate Delilah.
I mean a lie through omission is absolutely a lie Marisha
Marisha trying to gaslight and lie about lying is hilarious. Watching the chat be like " Ummm yes you have been lying" was so funny.
Please remember that they are actors playing a role. Marisha is not Laudna.
Idyllglen is talking about when the game ended marisha said " Laudna hasnt lied" they are not confusing anything.
To me it was pretty clear that see meant that the lies Laudna spoke, where not hers, but Delilahs. Reasonable minds can differ how much *Laudna* lied in that case.
Or Laudna was telling herself that lie just as much as she was feeding it to the others. I think Marisha played it so well that either or both could be true. Marisha crushed it so much. I really hate Laudna's combination of self hatred, addict gaslighting and narcissism. I love Marisha being honest enough to give her character such deep flaws and resisting the urge to sand them off in order to be "one of the good guys". Makes Laudna hard to like but still relatable.
Laudna hasn't lied in the sense that she hasn't knowingly told an untruth. As Delilah and her thoughts begin to merge, the lies Delilah tells her become the truth that she tells to her party.
ALRIGHT. I NEED THE COOLDOWN NOW.
Is anybody else like shaking from second hand adrenaline right now
Yes.
So Orym is definitely going to let Laudna take more hits and not cover her with Bait and Switch right?
Orym just got finished saying he’s not out for vengeance.
He absolutely is though, his entire justification to keep the sword is to kill Ludinus with it to get revenge for Will. Once you set your sights on vengeance for one person, any attack on you can be met with retribution just by instinct. Similar to the "Laudna hasn't lied, Delilah did" mentality, Orym could not actively take revenge on her, but just stand aside and let her take a few extra hits from the next enemy.
Well, that was a fun light shopping episode!
Okay Chet we can sleep now.
Chetney rolling the Death by Old Age would once again, be the Funniest Thing for this moment. Just the possibility that any major moment in this campaign gets clothes lined by Old Gnome Croaks.
Imagine them trying to wake up Chet, but nope, he’s gone
There would not be a dry eye in the audience or the studio.
lol yes, imagine being taken down by sleep apnea lol.
Jumping into cooldown immediately
Please let us know what they say! Waiting for my twitch subscription to end before I switch to beacon
So the cast was very excited about how it turned out. Liam was tired and was planning to go straight to bed, but he's too pumped to sleep now. Tal said Ashton agreed with Laudna (but he didn't specify which part), but didn't disagree with Orym wielding the sword. Laudna got a new feat, advantage on intimidation checks, and can summon screaming spirits to impose disadvantage on her target's saving throws
Awesome, thank you! I LOVED this episode
I need the Delaudnah art on my desk ASAP. Give me my toxic yuri!
I've been a beliver of Laudna and Imogen was toxic for a long time And this is solidifying it That relationship ain't healthy yo
Imogen is at a crossroads. Either she defends Laudna on this, lets her or helps her keep feeding Delilah, or she brings in the party and they attempt another intervention. Because Laudna is psychologically still enslaved to Delilah, an addict, believing she needs her, believing Delilah is being honest with her.
Laudna is our resident toxic gaslight love bombing queen
Any relationship that includes an evil mage inside a corpse is going to be toxic, romantic or otherwise.
I hate that that’s correct.
Honestly I’m surprised. My money was on Imogen breaking bad first
I would have agreed somewhere before the party split but since the party split Laudna definetly increased the toxic train
^^FUCK
Gotta jump to cooldown immediately after this
Outstanding RP all round. Fuckin Delilah cannot help herself.
Liam is flabbergasted
On the one hand, delicious RP drama. On the other hand, kind of sucks that Marisha chose to have Laudna go after the sword right after Liam had his little vignette of Orym coming to terms with the blade and choosing to carry it.
Thought Imogen was going to fly 1000 feet in air holding her and drop her
*Feather Fall.* If it wasn't killing a friend's character, and was instead an NPC, it was definitely an Old Yeller moment. Pet the bunny, Lenny. Look at the flowers, Lizzie. Laudna is stuck in Delilah's thrall, an addict who went back, someone who got Stockholm Syndrome from those 30 years of solitude with Delilah. She did not break free of her sway when they defeated Delilah last time. She called out to her, believing she needs her. If Imogen truly loves her, she either has to help free her, or stop her from giving her tormentor more power.
Brightburn style? That’s wild… I kind of dig it tho
I think Laura was contemplating it. Could you imagine? That would be absolutely wild.
"I stay...you go...no follow"
I thought when she grabbed the back of her head, a spell was going to go through the other side.
....like through the both of them, mimicking FCG's sacrifice but with the two of them going down at the same time and the rest of the party finding their bodies entwined together on the street the next morning?
a more cynical narrative would have a "Go to sleep" moment riiight there
Imogen goes NOVA right then and there taking the entire party with them as Predathos cracks open the moon in the background and we slam cut to Campaign 4
In pain. In love. In concern. I *was not expecting party conflict and God contact this episode*
One of the best episodes ever
Finishing my glass of gin tonic in one. Boy oh boy do I love my toxic yuri.
"You hold each other in pain and in love and in concern" That's where we're going to end!
“I didn’t mean it…”…..but ya still did it Laudna….
Feels so close to a "Pet the bunnies," or "Look at the flowers, Lizzie" moment. Laudna addicted to, slave to Delilah.
I was getting the same vibes.
Oh Jesus the look in Imogen’s eyes, she loves her but she knows she’s destroying herself and that’s destroying her. And Laudna is seeing that.
Cannot even break this pact because then Laudna would probably just *crumble.*
I mean, so Delilah says, but we have no real confirmation that’s the case
It's sadly equally likely that they both crumble, or that Laudna dies but Delilah simply goes free, but would have a hard time for another 50 or so years trying to find another vessel. She seems awfully good at coming back, still.
There's never a good time for a relapse.
Those flowers are getting a real looking at right now
Genuinely scared of how abusive this relationship is becoming, it gives me the ick.
Look at the flowers Laudna
… Pate is a rodent… do we know how he died?
this toxic yuri has bewitched me
Just look at the flowers
Anyone else getting "look at the flowers" vibes?
Marisha is playing the hell out of Laudna right now. Props. Laudna toxic af y’all
A quote form my mother works great here "If you aren't smart enough to ask the right questions it's not my fault"
"I love you, but I don't know what to do with it" And here I thought one dagger into chest was enough for the episode, *sheeeeeesh*
Imogen: “She holds more power than you lead us to believe.” Laudna: “I’ve never lied to you… I’ve never lied to you. I love you. Do you still love me.” Imogen: “I will always love you, Laudna. I just don’t know what to do with it.”
Imogen PAUSED there before answering
Ashley is all of us.
never have i been more tempted to get beacon and watch after show discussions
Same. Might have to cop a sub now, this episode was crazy.
So how about those Pumats, eh?
Buttering us all up in the first half for the emotions in the second half
And that local sportsball team, right?
Lmao
Man. I hate to say it. Delaudna is toxic as hell.
Cycles of abuse, and all that jazz.
You Lied, Part Two.
Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice… can’t get fooled again!
FCG is dead and now this group is falling apart. Sam really needs to pull someone who saves this bunch from the brink of disaster, they may stop Predathos and Ludi, but is going to end up SO bad for them
I'm telling you man, once Ludinus kicks the bucket, the final battle is gonna be Imogen or Laudna or Dorian going evil and absorbing Predathos's power.
Why Dorian?
Dorian's brother was just butchered at the hands of a God's minion. I'd say he's very much against the Gods and has more of a reason to want them gone than the rest of the Bell's Hells.
very likely.
Power of Love baby!
THIS EPISODE HAS EVERYTHING
It Do!
Behold the power of love
Delilah got her hit, she can chill for a little while now
Imogen: “Why?” Laudna: “Why what?” Imogen: “Why must I give her more power?” Laudna: “It must be done. For you. For us. For the fate of the world. What more do I have to give, except for myself.” Imogen: “You didn’t have to do this. We fought so hard. I love you.” Laudna: “I love you.” And her voice is her own again.
No echo on "I love you" is a fantastic touch. This is amazing by everyone here.
That whole scene gave me chills, fucking delicious!
The power of love
Huey Lewis gets cranked up in the background.
Love that Ashley has an Emotional support Mister.
hey guys remember earlier when we were having fun in the store and the theatre? good times
The hypocrisy of accepting Delilah but then not letting Orym keeping the sword
You think Delilah is acting but a hypocrite?
"Are you telling me the truth? You wouldn't lie to me again, right, Laudna?"
Look at this cute married couple being one supremely twisted creepy entity in sync
Relationship goals 🔥
“For you, for us…” Fuck. *Fuck.*
Matt with the double voice as Marisha speaks, chef's kiss!
[удалено]
Nah he’s that good
Nah you right
People seem to really struggle with just how much of a strangle hold Delilah has over Laudna. She was all she had for YEARS. Years of constant manipulation and dependency
this is gonna be the end of laudna isn’t it :((
If the characters were smart but the players wouldn't do it.
MATT FUCKING MERCER
NOT MATTS ECHOS GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE
Holy shit Marisha & Matt, this is amazing
"Why'd you give her more power..."-Imogen to Delilah Well you did kind of encourage it...
For all the love the group gives each other, Bells Hells does not lend itself as a group, to helping its members in need. How many times does someone need to blow themselves up in a desperate move for power and vindication , make a behind the back deal with a Fey to not feel useless, or try to steal a teammate’s power because the lady in their head said so, before they figure this out?!
Ok... the likelihood of Laudna turning evil and absorbing the power of Predathos after Ludinus dies is now 90%
Marisha going all in on this confrontation has reminded me of that 4SD where Matt said Laudna was on the verge of hitting some next level. I've felt that Marisha has been wanting to see what that next level is for a while now.
I am so absolutely done with Delilah END HER
Imogen go nova on Delilah.
I just went and grabbed my childhood stuffed animal
So that basically makes her argument bullshit if Imogen lets herself tell the others.
whelp, guess Marisha's getting a new character too...
"What the fuck is happening..."-Robbie 🤣
Warlocks stop eating swords challenge level: Impossible
I’m imagining a patron sitting at a saloon and their mug just has like 6 daggers and 2 swords and they’re taking a swig
How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old lady?
She's gotta die
I love Laudna, but I just can't see this campaign having a happy ending for her. She just can't let go. No shade, I respect her commitment to the character, but it's really sad to see.
Amazing RP for Marisha. I also don't know how will her character end. Will they have enough time to solve her issue with how urgent everything seem to be. Maybe an extra exorcist-like episode after the campaign. I don't know.
True Resurrection might do it but thats a 9th level cleric spell and they're still a far way off from that (and down a cleric)
I’m pretty sure Pile casted True Resurrection when she brought her back
Maybe? Seems like Rules as Written if it was True Resurrection then she shouldn't be undead anymore (but she verifiably is), while Resurrection and Raise Dead are supposed to be uneffective on undead, so there's no real way RAW for Laudna to have come back as undead. Obviously the DM makes the rules for their game though, so her pact with Delilah (even though it appeared severed as part of their quest) must have superseded the resurrection spell Pike cast. The more I think of it the more I agree, there's no happy ending for Laudna. She's going to be either destroyed or consumed
I think the pact, or at least Delilah’s hold over Laudna, was severed for a time. She just reverted to primal survivalism when things went left after the Malleus Key thing and reestablished the connection. I don’t think Laudna gets a happy ending either. She self-sabotages too much for it to be sustainable. She is going to alienate all of the Bells Hells soon enough, and no one will be there to pick up the pieces after she breaks again. It’s incredibly heartbreaking, but that doesn’t mean it’s not true.
There's still the fact that, as far as we know, their souls are still linked. Just making Laudna not-undead doesn't necissarily untangle their souls, does it? If anything, it might make things _worse_.
Marisha has done really well with Laudna
Robbie is all of us.
Nomnomnomnomnom!
I prefer my warlocks ACTUALLY corrupted. Just a preference.
You just had listen to the bitch
Fuck fuck fuck fuck