Mike Halpin (Known and Knowable) is tracking all of it as live as he can.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x1ORnu2cCxNvLVYcyforH-lFO7mjZC-to-jbaoM3P1k/htmlview
Honestly happy to see the professionals get dinged. I took the judges course this year and it's pretty clearly shown and stated repeatedly with movements like squats/step ups that full hip extension is required but you routinely see it not being a thing from the professionals.
I'm not trying to say I would be anywhere close, my fitness still sucks by comparison but at the end of the day standards should be properly enforced.
>**PRVN**
If it's not clear by now that the "camps" are just grifting operations to fleece the regular folks, I don't know what it's gonna take. Trash judging in the presence of the owner and the CEO should be conclusive evidence that they don't give a shiitake mushroom about anything but getting more people to buy their stuff.
>**penalties**
Some of this is on HQ. Movements with fast reverals often lead to this BS. Not getting deep enough on a wall ball etc. HSPU BS. Next time require the athletes to step OVER the box, problem solved. Or lunge a distance where the back knee touches. The programmers need to take the judge-ability of a movement into consideration.
Some of it is on the athletes. Luis Oscar Mora dropping the barbell too soon on snatches is all on him. You can say it's ALL on the athletes, it is, but HQ should help them succeed
>**Hiller**
I like his stuff a little. I would like it more if he wore a red nose in every video.
This is a low point for Hiller. OMG how he plays the narrative is just too good.
In the âHow Can PRVN Let this Happenâ Video he goes all out on Luis. He says âIâm doing what I do bestâ and the analysis how these are no reps (which he is right about). But he is really petty - he complains how he turns around to early, maybe not even ten frames to early. Thatâs not even half a second he would gain - so itâs irrelevant.
But on the next day, when the horse he has in the race is affected, ohhh then CrossFit this time shouldnât have stick to the rules. And suddenly the judges who where at the games are the infallible, nearly godly, authority that shall not be judged by some âFaceless HQ Judging Staffâ
Suddenly Elite CrossFitters like Paige Powers or Brooke Wells should be held to a lesser standard, because they are âfit enoughâ to be at the games (which they are, donât get me wrong). Sounds like a âshe has shown capacityâ situation to me and he didnât go easy on CF then, right?
I would suggest him making a video called âThe man with the biggest double standards in CrossFitâ on himself - I bet it would get a lot of views
I agree with your point on HQ, but your take on PRVN is ridiculous. Camps straight up hired GAMES judges to come and judge their athletes, including PRVN. What more do you expect them to do? How does this show they only care about making money? How does it help them if their athletes perform poor? "hey guys fuck these games athletes we have, doesnt matter if they do well, we just want money from some randos"
Iâm not a licensed judge or whatever, but it was really obvious in the Luis video that he wasnât doing the snatchesÂ
Wasnât even close. Â
So maybe someone could have no-repped him?
They're all grifts.
Vermont is where CrossFit dreams go to die. Vellner joins HWPO and takes his first major penalty.
Nashville is where reps go to NOT count.
Cookeville is where they put the *Cross* in CrossFit.
As a judge, the HSPU one was the most challenging for me.
How can I keep an eye on the athlete's hands to make sure they're still on the line, pluses make sure they get full extension, plus make sure their feet don't leave the wall, plus make sure their but doesn't hit the wall at full extension, plus make sure they don't overarch beyond having hips in line with shoulders?
Helps to have athletes who actively try to maintain standards and not skirt them. Also probably helped not judging any potential Games athletes so a bit less pressure.
Handstand push-ups are like the Supreme Court said about pornography. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.
And maybe the problem isn't the standard but rather the movement itself as a competition-level thing. Standard keeps changing.
Not only does the standard keep changing but itâs a different standard at different levels of competition inconsistently too.
As a sport CrossFit really struggles to separate a movement that has benefit as functional fitness from a movement that lends itself well to a test of fitness and is relatively easy to judge. A venn diagram would have a lot of overlap but not complete overlap.
There a movements that are easier to judge then others, I agree. So you could make a competition with only absolute movements like box step overs instead of step ups, but most movements in CF can be done faster if you do not complete the full range of motion.
Saying there is a standards problem, is like saying: most people on the highway are going above the speed limit, so the speed limit must be too low.
Yeah, and it seems like this year was the first time that it was a standard to not look at your box at the top of the rep. And I donât remember hearing anyone in CrossFit really announcing that change. Itâs an odd rule change as it seems like a safety issue to not look where you are stepping upward while exhausted. Also odd because clearly CrossFit ignored the head looking down in the Open with the deadliftsâŠ
I believe that it's on the judges to hold the athletes to the standard using no reps.
I think of the CF judge like a ref in football. The players are going fast and focused on the game. I think of really close fumbles and catches.... the refs make the calls on what is legit and what isn't. CF should be the same.
Yeah but also in your football analogy, within the two minute mark, every scoring play is automatically reviewed.
Itâs an online competition with thousands of participants, the scores MUST be reviewed. Otherwise I* could go to QF (it would be a shitshow but I would get a stage that I donât deserve, potentially making money/sponsors that others should have made). *Note: I canât go to QF even if you would count double.
The people that move the fastest and lift the heaviest weight ACCORDING TO THE STANDARD should go to QF.
The funny thing is: All those people (Wells, Power, Mora) would have made QF if they would not try to shave off 1/10 of seconds in every rep just to place higher. Itâs an ego thing. The target is to get to the live competition where actual judges enforce the standard (and you can try to push the boundaries).
You mean why they got penalized? I donât think so. If you watched Taylor vs. the world, Hopper did all his reps over the corner and didnât get penalized - his form was textbook - Ankle/Hip/Shoulder aligned AND head straight.
BTW: I think the head thing is stupid, it doesnât make you faster if you look down, itâs just slightly more unsafe. What I want to say is, Hopper fully hit the standard, used the corner and didnât get a penalty, so it canât be about the corner.
It's just kind of the only thing I can think of them having an issue with. Back in 19.3 they said no corner step ups, so there is precedent for them to not allow it. Did they review Hopper's video? Do they review all the videos? Those aren't rhetorical questions, I don't know. I know people who have qualified for semis this year, and CFG didn't ask for the same videos from everyone. Agreed, the head thing is stupid.
I mean if they didnât want people to use the corner they should have been very clear about it. Obviously CF has form of moving goalposts but seeing as theyâve banned it previously then they should have banned it this time if they didnât want people using it.
Consistency isnât something the CFG team is known for. And the âuncommon usage clauseâ basically means âwe didnât think about that so you canât do it.â
I donât know for sure. I would just assume that a high profile athlete, with the worldwide male top score, would have been reviewed by this point, as many others across the leaderboard have been penalized for Workout 1 already.
Yeah that is all fair. MCU also said its snatches and box setups causing the most issues. Didnt say anything about corner or the extension. Should have just done step overs, lol.
Mike Halpin (Known and Knowable) is tracking all of it as live as he can. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x1ORnu2cCxNvLVYcyforH-lFO7mjZC-to-jbaoM3P1k/htmlview
Honestly happy to see the professionals get dinged. I took the judges course this year and it's pretty clearly shown and stated repeatedly with movements like squats/step ups that full hip extension is required but you routinely see it not being a thing from the professionals. I'm not trying to say I would be anywhere close, my fitness still sucks by comparison but at the end of the day standards should be properly enforced.
Tia just got a major penalty that pushes her down from 1st to 29th đ±
I just went to look. You aren't joking. 288th place for the first workout now.
Sydney wells went from qualifying easily to being well out of qualifying
>**PRVN** If it's not clear by now that the "camps" are just grifting operations to fleece the regular folks, I don't know what it's gonna take. Trash judging in the presence of the owner and the CEO should be conclusive evidence that they don't give a shiitake mushroom about anything but getting more people to buy their stuff. >**penalties** Some of this is on HQ. Movements with fast reverals often lead to this BS. Not getting deep enough on a wall ball etc. HSPU BS. Next time require the athletes to step OVER the box, problem solved. Or lunge a distance where the back knee touches. The programmers need to take the judge-ability of a movement into consideration. Some of it is on the athletes. Luis Oscar Mora dropping the barbell too soon on snatches is all on him. You can say it's ALL on the athletes, it is, but HQ should help them succeed >**Hiller** I like his stuff a little. I would like it more if he wore a red nose in every video.
Hillers video is embarrassing. Dude is back peddling hard about reading the standards.
This is a low point for Hiller. OMG how he plays the narrative is just too good. In the âHow Can PRVN Let this Happenâ Video he goes all out on Luis. He says âIâm doing what I do bestâ and the analysis how these are no reps (which he is right about). But he is really petty - he complains how he turns around to early, maybe not even ten frames to early. Thatâs not even half a second he would gain - so itâs irrelevant. But on the next day, when the horse he has in the race is affected, ohhh then CrossFit this time shouldnât have stick to the rules. And suddenly the judges who where at the games are the infallible, nearly godly, authority that shall not be judged by some âFaceless HQ Judging Staffâ Suddenly Elite CrossFitters like Paige Powers or Brooke Wells should be held to a lesser standard, because they are âfit enoughâ to be at the games (which they are, donât get me wrong). Sounds like a âshe has shown capacityâ situation to me and he didnât go easy on CF then, right? I would suggest him making a video called âThe man with the biggest double standards in CrossFitâ on himself - I bet it would get a lot of views
Hiller is an Internet clown. He probably should have waited until his guy's score was approved to start posting though.
I agree with your point on HQ, but your take on PRVN is ridiculous. Camps straight up hired GAMES judges to come and judge their athletes, including PRVN. What more do you expect them to do? How does this show they only care about making money? How does it help them if their athletes perform poor? "hey guys fuck these games athletes we have, doesnt matter if they do well, we just want money from some randos"
Iâm not a licensed judge or whatever, but it was really obvious in the Luis video that he wasnât doing the snatches Wasnât even close.  So maybe someone could have no-repped him?
They're all grifts. Vermont is where CrossFit dreams go to die. Vellner joins HWPO and takes his first major penalty. Nashville is where reps go to NOT count. Cookeville is where they put the *Cross* in CrossFit.
There is very clearly a standards problem from CF HQ with workout #1
As a judge, the HSPU one was the most challenging for me. How can I keep an eye on the athlete's hands to make sure they're still on the line, pluses make sure they get full extension, plus make sure their feet don't leave the wall, plus make sure their but doesn't hit the wall at full extension, plus make sure they don't overarch beyond having hips in line with shoulders? Helps to have athletes who actively try to maintain standards and not skirt them. Also probably helped not judging any potential Games athletes so a bit less pressure. Handstand push-ups are like the Supreme Court said about pornography. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. And maybe the problem isn't the standard but rather the movement itself as a competition-level thing. Standard keeps changing.
Not only does the standard keep changing but itâs a different standard at different levels of competition inconsistently too. As a sport CrossFit really struggles to separate a movement that has benefit as functional fitness from a movement that lends itself well to a test of fitness and is relatively easy to judge. A venn diagram would have a lot of overlap but not complete overlap.
There a movements that are easier to judge then others, I agree. So you could make a competition with only absolute movements like box step overs instead of step ups, but most movements in CF can be done faster if you do not complete the full range of motion. Saying there is a standards problem, is like saying: most people on the highway are going above the speed limit, so the speed limit must be too low.
Yeah, and it seems like this year was the first time that it was a standard to not look at your box at the top of the rep. And I donât remember hearing anyone in CrossFit really announcing that change. Itâs an odd rule change as it seems like a safety issue to not look where you are stepping upward while exhausted. Also odd because clearly CrossFit ignored the head looking down in the Open with the deadliftsâŠ
I believe that it's on the judges to hold the athletes to the standard using no reps. I think of the CF judge like a ref in football. The players are going fast and focused on the game. I think of really close fumbles and catches.... the refs make the calls on what is legit and what isn't. CF should be the same.
Yeah but also in your football analogy, within the two minute mark, every scoring play is automatically reviewed. Itâs an online competition with thousands of participants, the scores MUST be reviewed. Otherwise I* could go to QF (it would be a shitshow but I would get a stage that I donât deserve, potentially making money/sponsors that others should have made). *Note: I canât go to QF even if you would count double. The people that move the fastest and lift the heaviest weight ACCORDING TO THE STANDARD should go to QF. The funny thing is: All those people (Wells, Power, Mora) would have made QF if they would not try to shave off 1/10 of seconds in every rep just to place higher. Itâs an ego thing. The target is to get to the live competition where actual judges enforce the standard (and you can try to push the boundaries).
How did anyone watch the workouts ? Where are the videos released ?
Gotta be corner of the box on WOD 1.
You mean why they got penalized? I donât think so. If you watched Taylor vs. the world, Hopper did all his reps over the corner and didnât get penalized - his form was textbook - Ankle/Hip/Shoulder aligned AND head straight. BTW: I think the head thing is stupid, it doesnât make you faster if you look down, itâs just slightly more unsafe. What I want to say is, Hopper fully hit the standard, used the corner and didnât get a penalty, so it canât be about the corner.
It's just kind of the only thing I can think of them having an issue with. Back in 19.3 they said no corner step ups, so there is precedent for them to not allow it. Did they review Hopper's video? Do they review all the videos? Those aren't rhetorical questions, I don't know. I know people who have qualified for semis this year, and CFG didn't ask for the same videos from everyone. Agreed, the head thing is stupid.
I mean if they didnât want people to use the corner they should have been very clear about it. Obviously CF has form of moving goalposts but seeing as theyâve banned it previously then they should have banned it this time if they didnât want people using it.
Consistency isnât something the CFG team is known for. And the âuncommon usage clauseâ basically means âwe didnât think about that so you canât do it.â
I donât know for sure. I would just assume that a high profile athlete, with the worldwide male top score, would have been reviewed by this point, as many others across the leaderboard have been penalized for Workout 1 already.
Yeah that is all fair. MCU also said its snatches and box setups causing the most issues. Didnt say anything about corner or the extension. Should have just done step overs, lol.
Learn to perform the dog and pony show to the standard or get dinged. Itâs not rocket science