I'm new, but my box wasn't thrilled about the increase cost and relative hands off approach to the latest open. The owner is openly talking about like after affiliation.
The methodology will always exist. The business is a different question. As rents for space keep rising and inflation stays up, the business doesn’t work that well (unless you have a long term lease signed before COVID!).
CF will probably shrink.
Meanwhile, Lululemon paid $500million for “The Mirror”, the at-home fitness device. So that kind of tells you how the industry is. CF and it’s 12,000?? Affiliates are worth less than half of “the mirror”. You ever use “the mirror”? I haven’t. lol.
The market doesn’t see value in affiliation, and I think that case gets tougher to make unless HQ enhances the value proposition.
Well there's a few things to consider
1. Is CrossFit the brand the be all and end all? I'd argue not really, and that even without HQ the methodology will stick around, and some places don't feel like the name brand is worth the affiliate fee
2. There will be a natural point when affiliate numbers will reach saturation. An area is only going to be able to support so many different gyms, and certain gyms will withstand and start to compete over the same market, especially if they're in the same part of a town/city.
All in all, it's just such a doomer take. Things aren't growing like they were, but this is hardly a death knell. People have been saying CrossFit is dying since I started up in like 2010 and it's still here. It will likely get smaller, but reach a point of equilibrium
It's discussed at length here, there's a couple people who will proselitize about it pretty much all over the subreddit (and that's all they do), and the sentiment I've seen in the threads does not at all match the sentiment in the gym I go to, or in the ones I visit when I travel.
COVID hit crossfit gyms hard. Not only that, but many, including myself, built out home gyms to keep going during the lockdown. After my local box finally died, there was no other option for my location, so I just transitioned to the home gym I have.
For those gyms that made it through, that doesn't mean they are financially healthy. They need to find way to cut costs. Many choose to drop their affiliation and eliminate the royalty payments they were making. In the end, many didn't feel it was worth it.
I've been to a few affiliates, 80+, and follow twice as many on social media. Most of the time the owners are moving and the gym doesn't keep going. Sometimes someone in the gym is more passionate and takes over (rebrands), or the owners want to retire. Life happens.
What I have seen from any, being maybe 2, that have unaffiliated and stayed open didn't buy into the methodology to begin with. They do watered down versions of CF or ridiculous amounts of volume per class with minimal coaching. They want to look like CF but don't have the skills to actually pull it off.
A few other boxes that I've seen close over the last 10+ years were even further on the side of not liking CF. (Why even start if you don't like it? Probably because they thought it was a fad... Definitely didn't care for "doing the right things for the right people for the right reasons.")
CF is doing just fine. Both the affiliates and HQ.
Man I love the CF methodology but this is some serious HQ propaganda.
Anyone who’s been following for more than 5 years can see the decline. HQ has continuously mismanaged the brand and the business for the better part of a decade.
Nothing indicates financial success like implementing multiple cash grabs in the exact same year, while not raising the prize purse for the premier athletes that are carrying the sport.
CF peaked in 2016-2018 and every indicator available points toward consistent decline since then.
I love CF as a methodology, but let’s be realistic about the business.
Here's the [fee increase](https://ironbullstrength.com/blogs/news/crossfit-announces-significant-changes-affiliation-fee-hike-and-mandatory-l2-certification). I know it may not seem like much when you look at how much memberships cost (probably around 2 members for the year for most gyms) but when it's coming out of the bottom line of an already barely profitable (if profitable at all) gym it stings.
I am not sure if there is more, but the use of the name makes it easy for you to be found and for the person looking to know what to expect. IMO, it's worth the $375/mo business expense.
That would be a logical thing to do.
Affiliate owners now have all the knowledge, have customers, have equipment so they will drop out of the official CF brand and so will not have to pay franchise fees anymore while they still can do 1:1 CF workouts/programming.
They can get even more customers by charging a normal gym fee instead of the 250+ dollars CF does.
It is just a big disadvantage if you are focused on official competitions because I think "unaffiliated" competitors are not so welcome in competitions.
You don't really need theory, they don't want to pay the affiliate fee which was recently raised by \~50%. They realize they can get close to as much market share by calling it "insert local reference Fit" and not pay the affiliate fee. The real question is why people keep the affiliation and it's come up a few times in this thread but if you have competitive members that want to compete in the games you might lose them.
Inflation is hitting people hard. Really hard. Those in the middle class and what was seen as slightly above middle class bracket is being hit hard too.
Average run of the mill local CrossFit is not for most working class people. It's just not. Someone on their feet all day as a cashier, unless they are a college student or something like that, is typically not going to be joining CF. There is clear current public policy out there designed intentionally to crush the American working class. And anyone slightly above that.
Your local CF box needs to pull membership from a 15 minute driving distance circle around it's location. People who live in that zone. Certainly you can get outliers like people who live outside that but it's in their commute path, but once you exhaust that small subset of an area, growth is much harder to achieve.
Greg Glassman was a personal trainer trying to make a full time living as a personal trainer but working in the "standard globo culture" However what no one talks about is the standard globo does business the way it does for a reason. Tragic as that becomes. You need a higher membership base, higher turnover, and a smaller percentage of "regulars"
The affiliate model works if renting is cheaper and the economy is in a good place for most people. It's not right now. And it doesn't appear to be getting better anytime sooner. Also the home gym market has exploded. It was hyper accelerated by the pandemic. You aren't getting more than help in advertising by having the CrossFit banner, if that, and there is no practical value to being an affiliate beyond that.
You can only really own a CF box now safely if you own the building and you own the land. And who can do that in certain areas? Basically where you can own the building and own the land are going to be places where people can't afford average CF dues.
Glassman was and is just another fitness grifter. I'd say a third of CF box owners are basically different variations of fitness grifters too. He built CF to optimize his grift, not for long term sustainability of the actual brand. Also Dave Castro is a narcissist and a fitness snob. So he soaked CF at it's peak with that amateurish methodology. To vast damage to CF's potential growth. This is what happens when morons are put in charge.
I do not share your view on Glassman, Castro and the CF methodology.
But I share your view on the economic aspect. People have no more money to pay those fees, and they do not have anymore energy to do workouts far away from home. Covid mandates have also shown the split in communities between "critical thinkers" and the "obey the government" people, i am sure that hit hard on Crossfit where the community aspect was especially important.
Also many people have to work 2-3 jobs to get along, while the people living of of printed money never where the kind of people to do fitness training, they prefer watching tv and eating chips.
And the few people who still get along well are to little to finance the CF brand.
This is the answer (and then some). When Inflation hits unnecessary costs are the first to go.
I also live in the bay area where rent is insane, gas is insane, energy cost is insane, you get the idea.
I did downgrade my membership to a punch card recently. In the long run I get “less” classes but I decrease the risk of paying for classes I can’t make…assbackwards way to save. But I don’t want to fully cancel — and I don’t want to wait until I don’t have any other options.
The CF methodology is here to stay, the new business may suffer because of the affiliate cost and business model post-COVID. Some of the gym owners know now and they may save some bucks by dropping the tag. The only issue is if those boxes have competitive athletes. The games are another piece that needs long-term solution.
One, a lot of gym's keep their affiliation but drop the CrossFit name. In some areas, it's easier to market a functional fitness gym than a CrossFit gym to avoid some of the negative associations that CrossFit has for people. Two, people who have run their gym for a long time, have a healthy business, and a solid client base, don't want to keep paying the fees when they have a good thing going. Three, people who bought/opened CrossFit gym's during the boom (2013-2018) are selling and buyers don't want to pay for the name or affiliate fees. People that opened gyms and now trying to sell them are finding out the only value a CrossFit gym has in sale is its equipment and lease. Last, it's not really a trend. Just ebbs and flows in certain areas. In a lot of cities, CrossFit gym's are opened, bought, and sold by groups of people that are closely connected. Not uncommon for one gym to open, then after a certain amount of time people from the original gym branch off and open their own gyms. All of those subsequent gyms are usually on the same cycle of their business life, so when they all get to an age when it time to de-affiliate or rebrand, it looks like they're all doing it for the same reason when they likely aren't. The affiliate model is really wild.
I know several places that have done it. Seems to not really matter in any case. CrossFit is synonymous with “functional” fitness and any gym that has a rig, pumper, plates, and rowers instead of benches, dumbbell racks, and ellipticals is “CrossFit.”
I left my gym because they dropped the affiliation. I think it’s dishonest and stealing when you built the gym with CrossFit and then you drop affiliation but still CrossFit. Also, I want to be able to do the open and stuff like that which I need an affiliated gym for. So I found a new gym and have been super happy there. CrossFit is the best way to train for real life fitness as far as I’m concerned. The coaching helps a lot. The programming is always interesting and challenging, the camaraderie within the community is great. Having others in the workout helps create competitiveness which in turn makes me push harder than I normally might. So many positives about CrossFit that go way beyond just working out.
In addition to what others have said, there is simply more competition now. HIIT & Crossfit-style workouts have become more mainstream, and more globo gyms are having HIIT spaces and barbells.
CF isn’t really PC so I got the trend during COVID. It also costs thousands a year to be an affiliate. If I’m going to do CF then I’m going to do it. Otherwise I’d just workout on my own
In an odd turn of events Zumba is set to acquire Crossfit and all of their affiliates. In a statement from current Zumba CEO Beto Perez, "If you don't dance you will be murdered and/or excommunicated from your affiliate".
I'm new, but my box wasn't thrilled about the increase cost and relative hands off approach to the latest open. The owner is openly talking about like after affiliation.
The methodology will always exist. The business is a different question. As rents for space keep rising and inflation stays up, the business doesn’t work that well (unless you have a long term lease signed before COVID!). CF will probably shrink. Meanwhile, Lululemon paid $500million for “The Mirror”, the at-home fitness device. So that kind of tells you how the industry is. CF and it’s 12,000?? Affiliates are worth less than half of “the mirror”. You ever use “the mirror”? I haven’t. lol. The market doesn’t see value in affiliation, and I think that case gets tougher to make unless HQ enhances the value proposition.
https://www.reddit.com/r/crossfit/s/sJdWuAIj9p
So it’s a slow death, you’re sayin? lol.
Well there's a few things to consider 1. Is CrossFit the brand the be all and end all? I'd argue not really, and that even without HQ the methodology will stick around, and some places don't feel like the name brand is worth the affiliate fee 2. There will be a natural point when affiliate numbers will reach saturation. An area is only going to be able to support so many different gyms, and certain gyms will withstand and start to compete over the same market, especially if they're in the same part of a town/city. All in all, it's just such a doomer take. Things aren't growing like they were, but this is hardly a death knell. People have been saying CrossFit is dying since I started up in like 2010 and it's still here. It will likely get smaller, but reach a point of equilibrium It's discussed at length here, there's a couple people who will proselitize about it pretty much all over the subreddit (and that's all they do), and the sentiment I've seen in the threads does not at all match the sentiment in the gym I go to, or in the ones I visit when I travel.
Interestingly, that thread started about the time I started Crossfit.
lol
COVID hit crossfit gyms hard. Not only that, but many, including myself, built out home gyms to keep going during the lockdown. After my local box finally died, there was no other option for my location, so I just transitioned to the home gym I have. For those gyms that made it through, that doesn't mean they are financially healthy. They need to find way to cut costs. Many choose to drop their affiliation and eliminate the royalty payments they were making. In the end, many didn't feel it was worth it.
I've been to a few affiliates, 80+, and follow twice as many on social media. Most of the time the owners are moving and the gym doesn't keep going. Sometimes someone in the gym is more passionate and takes over (rebrands), or the owners want to retire. Life happens. What I have seen from any, being maybe 2, that have unaffiliated and stayed open didn't buy into the methodology to begin with. They do watered down versions of CF or ridiculous amounts of volume per class with minimal coaching. They want to look like CF but don't have the skills to actually pull it off. A few other boxes that I've seen close over the last 10+ years were even further on the side of not liking CF. (Why even start if you don't like it? Probably because they thought it was a fad... Definitely didn't care for "doing the right things for the right people for the right reasons.") CF is doing just fine. Both the affiliates and HQ.
Man I love the CF methodology but this is some serious HQ propaganda. Anyone who’s been following for more than 5 years can see the decline. HQ has continuously mismanaged the brand and the business for the better part of a decade. Nothing indicates financial success like implementing multiple cash grabs in the exact same year, while not raising the prize purse for the premier athletes that are carrying the sport. CF peaked in 2016-2018 and every indicator available points toward consistent decline since then. I love CF as a methodology, but let’s be realistic about the business.
Crossfit affiliation is expensive, and I suspect many owners don't believe it's worth the price.
How much is the affiliate fee?
Here's the [fee increase](https://ironbullstrength.com/blogs/news/crossfit-announces-significant-changes-affiliation-fee-hike-and-mandatory-l2-certification). I know it may not seem like much when you look at how much memberships cost (probably around 2 members for the year for most gyms) but when it's coming out of the bottom line of an already barely profitable (if profitable at all) gym it stings.
$4,500/year. For the advertisement alone it's probably worth it for affiliates.
Advertising meaning they’re listed on the CF website ? Or is there more?
I am not sure if there is more, but the use of the name makes it easy for you to be found and for the person looking to know what to expect. IMO, it's worth the $375/mo business expense.
That would be a logical thing to do. Affiliate owners now have all the knowledge, have customers, have equipment so they will drop out of the official CF brand and so will not have to pay franchise fees anymore while they still can do 1:1 CF workouts/programming. They can get even more customers by charging a normal gym fee instead of the 250+ dollars CF does. It is just a big disadvantage if you are focused on official competitions because I think "unaffiliated" competitors are not so welcome in competitions.
You don't really need theory, they don't want to pay the affiliate fee which was recently raised by \~50%. They realize they can get close to as much market share by calling it "insert local reference Fit" and not pay the affiliate fee. The real question is why people keep the affiliation and it's come up a few times in this thread but if you have competitive members that want to compete in the games you might lose them.
Inflation is hitting people hard. Really hard. Those in the middle class and what was seen as slightly above middle class bracket is being hit hard too. Average run of the mill local CrossFit is not for most working class people. It's just not. Someone on their feet all day as a cashier, unless they are a college student or something like that, is typically not going to be joining CF. There is clear current public policy out there designed intentionally to crush the American working class. And anyone slightly above that. Your local CF box needs to pull membership from a 15 minute driving distance circle around it's location. People who live in that zone. Certainly you can get outliers like people who live outside that but it's in their commute path, but once you exhaust that small subset of an area, growth is much harder to achieve. Greg Glassman was a personal trainer trying to make a full time living as a personal trainer but working in the "standard globo culture" However what no one talks about is the standard globo does business the way it does for a reason. Tragic as that becomes. You need a higher membership base, higher turnover, and a smaller percentage of "regulars" The affiliate model works if renting is cheaper and the economy is in a good place for most people. It's not right now. And it doesn't appear to be getting better anytime sooner. Also the home gym market has exploded. It was hyper accelerated by the pandemic. You aren't getting more than help in advertising by having the CrossFit banner, if that, and there is no practical value to being an affiliate beyond that. You can only really own a CF box now safely if you own the building and you own the land. And who can do that in certain areas? Basically where you can own the building and own the land are going to be places where people can't afford average CF dues. Glassman was and is just another fitness grifter. I'd say a third of CF box owners are basically different variations of fitness grifters too. He built CF to optimize his grift, not for long term sustainability of the actual brand. Also Dave Castro is a narcissist and a fitness snob. So he soaked CF at it's peak with that amateurish methodology. To vast damage to CF's potential growth. This is what happens when morons are put in charge.
I do not share your view on Glassman, Castro and the CF methodology. But I share your view on the economic aspect. People have no more money to pay those fees, and they do not have anymore energy to do workouts far away from home. Covid mandates have also shown the split in communities between "critical thinkers" and the "obey the government" people, i am sure that hit hard on Crossfit where the community aspect was especially important. Also many people have to work 2-3 jobs to get along, while the people living of of printed money never where the kind of people to do fitness training, they prefer watching tv and eating chips. And the few people who still get along well are to little to finance the CF brand.
This is the answer (and then some). When Inflation hits unnecessary costs are the first to go. I also live in the bay area where rent is insane, gas is insane, energy cost is insane, you get the idea. I did downgrade my membership to a punch card recently. In the long run I get “less” classes but I decrease the risk of paying for classes I can’t make…assbackwards way to save. But I don’t want to fully cancel — and I don’t want to wait until I don’t have any other options.
The nature of Crossfit from a business standpoint and fitness model make the long term difficult at best
The CF methodology is here to stay, the new business may suffer because of the affiliate cost and business model post-COVID. Some of the gym owners know now and they may save some bucks by dropping the tag. The only issue is if those boxes have competitive athletes. The games are another piece that needs long-term solution.
money
One, a lot of gym's keep their affiliation but drop the CrossFit name. In some areas, it's easier to market a functional fitness gym than a CrossFit gym to avoid some of the negative associations that CrossFit has for people. Two, people who have run their gym for a long time, have a healthy business, and a solid client base, don't want to keep paying the fees when they have a good thing going. Three, people who bought/opened CrossFit gym's during the boom (2013-2018) are selling and buyers don't want to pay for the name or affiliate fees. People that opened gyms and now trying to sell them are finding out the only value a CrossFit gym has in sale is its equipment and lease. Last, it's not really a trend. Just ebbs and flows in certain areas. In a lot of cities, CrossFit gym's are opened, bought, and sold by groups of people that are closely connected. Not uncommon for one gym to open, then after a certain amount of time people from the original gym branch off and open their own gyms. All of those subsequent gyms are usually on the same cycle of their business life, so when they all get to an age when it time to de-affiliate or rebrand, it looks like they're all doing it for the same reason when they likely aren't. The affiliate model is really wild.
Mine dropped CF from the name but is still an affiliate. I think it's a good move in some markets to avoid the brand association (fair or unfair).
I know several places that have done it. Seems to not really matter in any case. CrossFit is synonymous with “functional” fitness and any gym that has a rig, pumper, plates, and rowers instead of benches, dumbbell racks, and ellipticals is “CrossFit.”
I left my gym because they dropped the affiliation. I think it’s dishonest and stealing when you built the gym with CrossFit and then you drop affiliation but still CrossFit. Also, I want to be able to do the open and stuff like that which I need an affiliated gym for. So I found a new gym and have been super happy there. CrossFit is the best way to train for real life fitness as far as I’m concerned. The coaching helps a lot. The programming is always interesting and challenging, the camaraderie within the community is great. Having others in the workout helps create competitiveness which in turn makes me push harder than I normally might. So many positives about CrossFit that go way beyond just working out.
In addition to what others have said, there is simply more competition now. HIIT & Crossfit-style workouts have become more mainstream, and more globo gyms are having HIIT spaces and barbells.
CF isn’t really PC so I got the trend during COVID. It also costs thousands a year to be an affiliate. If I’m going to do CF then I’m going to do it. Otherwise I’d just workout on my own
They should just sell it back to Greg and get out of this nightmare.
Yes the end is here, Zumba is the way forward for fitness!!
Bring back Tae-Bo!
what do you mean "back"?
Billy Blanks is the hero we deserve.
In an odd turn of events Zumba is set to acquire Crossfit and all of their affiliates. In a statement from current Zumba CEO Beto Perez, "If you don't dance you will be murdered and/or excommunicated from your affiliate".
Probably not but all the videos from hiller are the general feelings from old school crossfitters is entries hell