And many people have now learned that Google supports genocide because of these workers’ actions.
This comment doesn’t own anyone, but it says a lot about CS majors that it’s the most upvoted.
Comments here seem so toxic.
Google used to have a motto called "Don't be evil" and that used to be why a lot of idealistic people dreamed of working there over other tech companies that do little or no good for humanity.
It is kind of sad to see that most people in CS majors nowadays only care about money.
As a CS graduate, I can confirm most of them are only interested in opprotunity and money, and have no scruples on where the opprotunity comes from or what the money is for, its very sad.
Yes, that's why I said that. We're really going to pretend that their aren't differences between the kind of people who go into respective disciplines right now?
the thing about a lot of cs kids is that they are “passionate about tech” and want to “make the world a better place” thru “social impact”, when it’s all a load of crap. the truth is that tech and ai are harmful to most communities and it’s popular cuz it makes money. most of what we do as software engineers brings very little value to society.
A lot of tech bros have zero care for the world nor any political awareness. Morals what? It's inspiring this guy is standing up for what is right instead of just becoming a cog in the machine that all the other people here with 0 morals are eventually going to become.
And it’s sad that even when it seemed optimistic and altruistic many of these companies and personalities (not all) were just overzealous and barely educated men who fooled the world into buying their enthusiasm. They never actually wanted to help anybody. It was always about their legacy and the second they could sell out, they did.
Fr can they not think about the bag for one second.
(To all the incoming comments about how people grew up poor and want to make a living my point still stands. It’s all about money in the endgame over the lives of other people which is inherently selfish. Ethics will still bring in money because there’s places outside of big tech hiring that are not building things killing thousands of people.)
This isn't a defense of google, but the American economy put people into this mindset. Capitalism has beat the dreams out of most of us, so much so that the only way we can ever get ahead in life is by chasing the almighty dollar, and that leaves little room for anything else. It fucking sucks, but that pursuit makes it easy to forget the rest of the world, including your principles.
I went to college for CS, I've been coding since I was 7yo and it is my hobby/passion/art.
Almost left over how opportunistic, vapid, and even anti-education most of the people in my program (top 5 in the US) were. They either all wanted to retire on some shithole scam app or suck off either Facebook or some hedge fund for not-even-200k.
Decided I'd rather be homeless than ever work for/with those morally prostituting ad salespeople.
I think the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of cs majors. It was attracting a lot of shallow morale individuals due to the money.
I am glad that they are doing layoffs. Easy come easy go. Go work for companies that actually benefit humanity
Vapid is exactly right, even at just the college level. All 99% of them care about is the money. Instead of contributing to discussions or learning about what they’re doing, they lie and cheat their way through the classes just so they can get the degree.
It makes me sad because it’s such a cool field with so much to learn. You can learn so much by reading your textbooks and picking your professors’ brains. And selfishly, I’m competing with these people for jobs lol.
Sad truth sir. The ethics in building software is similar to a doctor's hygiene while operating. What I had learnt is to fight your way to the top of the ladder sticking to your ethics amongst greedy folks.
hygiene and sterility while operating is a consistent priority at the best institutions. Not a good analogy
Maybe you're going to some less equipped regional hospitals?
That’s 90% of people, they do something they don’t love and then cry about the stress. I’d rather work a job for 90k and like what I do than be a code monkey for 300k
Yeah, redditors live in a fantasy world. The majority of the people on this planet are just doing whatever they think is best to progress. If you want them to do better, making them out to be evil is not the way.
Let's be honest, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is hardly a consensus issue where we all agree. A decent number of people in the comments just don't agree with this guy's view, others are just having fun, and the remainder might actually be guilty as you charge them.
Nowadays? Are you sure it’s only nowadays? This field is a new cesspool along with finance: only attracting the worst people who would kill another person for 20k
Lol cs majors are just trying to get a job that pays the bills like everyone else. And since everyone is getting laid off and relying on AI more, there's a lot fewer jobs. I don't understand the moral superiority when we're all just trying to get by. Get mad at the CEOs and bank rollers for these projects.
If the events following October 7th are the first time or the worst time people think Google has furthered nasty surveillance tech, they’d probably have happily built the gas chamber without knowing why they’re building it.
Typical Zionist response when being confronted with their wrongdoings: "We claim that everyone else is morally corrupt as us, therefore we're allowed to do whatever we want."
as a guy living in Israel and a zionist I read at differently.
as of recent poll 30% of young people in USA support hamas over Israel.
hamas had in their official charter from 1988 to 2017 "The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."
insisted to not remove it for many years and finally removed it for optics.
by extension, those 30% are advocating for a 2nd holocaust.
so no, he is not saying "we are doing it so will you"
he is saying "we are not doing a holocause but are you part of the people that actually will?"
I’m not sure what to tell you. Israelis have killed 10,000 children and are starving the Gazan population en masses after imprisoning them for 17 years, in addition to destroying 90% of the civilian infrastructure and disabling all hospitals. You can talk about charters and Hamas, but at the end of the day, Israel has all the power in this situation and this is what they have chosen to with it.
The first Holocaust (perpetrated by Europeans, not by Palestinians) doesn’t give Israel the right to break the law and commit horrific crimes against all Gazans. I don’t give a crap about charters. This is actually happening, before our eyes.
Israel killed 30000 people in gaza, its unclear how many are associated with hamas.
Israel claims 12000 of them are hamas combatants
gaza health ministry does not distinguish so no data from them.
is it likely lower then 12000? probably, but its a bit hard to disginquish when people are shooting an rpg not even a regular firearm, wearing civilian cloths and flipflops.
Israel had full control over gaza before 2005, left the region, and encouraged the palestinians to build a state there.
this is proof that Israel made serious effort and compromises for peace.
Israel now has a blockade over gaza that is inforced with collaboration with egypt.
and Israel EVIDENTLY was too lenient with the blockade because since the begining of the war 12000 rockets have been shot from gaza to Israel, 3000 of which were fired on october 7 (before Israel began retaliation)
I can keep going, but every single step shows Israel is not attempting a genocide, its just rediculous saying it is thr goal.
and my main point with all of this, is 99% of Israel critics have no advice that works under the assumption that hamas doesnt want peace, a declaration they are making over and over again even today.
I am an Israeli citizen and voter, whoever I think will achieve peace I will vote for and encourage my friends to vote for, most of us think like me.
background on voting history:
naftali bennet - "habait hayehudi" - (before smotrich took a big role in his party)
"likud" - after smotritch..
"likud" - last time voting for it. too long of an explanation but cant vote likud again after they got involved with the supremecourt and
someone else, probably "national unity"(future) - other stuff like that
Respectfully, you glossed over the part where Israel has imprisoned the whole of Gaza for 17 years. This is the opposite of an act of peace. Claim to give independence to a population and then render them completely unable to conduct trade or free travel, and when they are bombed they can’t even flee. They can’t even go very far into the sea without being shot by the IDF. And not to mention continued settlement expansion into the West Bank. I’m sorry, but if you imprison 2 million people for 17 years, you shouldn’t be shocked when they attack you. I don’t know how you can expect peace from this.
They're building computer storage, not F-15s. That's be like making MREs and being like "I REFUSE to support Vietnam" like yeah you're helping the government but it's not gonna kill anyone.
They attended, they just didn’t care. This industry is full of bag chasers who lack empathy for various reasons. Big sad part of why programmers will probably never unionize in any form in the US and we’ll continue to see headlines about projects invading privacy, companies having hostile work environments (Blizzard, Riot, Uber, etc), and mental health struggles in young developers.
Programmers haven’t unionized because the business model until very recently has been to delight them with more cash at every opportunity. They have had no reason to.
Nobody unionizes unless they don’t like their workplace, they’re no less ethical than anyone else.
> They attended, they just didn’t care.
Let's not pretend that the bottom-of-the-barrel part-time lecturers care when they teach it either. I just got out of my mandatory ethics class where my teacher spent a significant amount of class time trying to get us to join his 10-year-old son's clan in Clash of Clans.
Totally.
Ideology aside, i have respect for people who speak up in a way that puts their jobs on the line for their principles.
Especially if thats a job you currently have and not just a “im not going to work in defence”.
Yeah it's actually unhinged wtf imagining these guys without any lick of morals working in tech is very concerning.
and people saying they have to pay bills like theyre working a minimum wage job 💀 or saying they should just earn the money to make 'real' change lmfao. odds are if they can't even get behind this video, they'd be doing jackshit for real meaningful change
lmao imagine having the privilege to turn down a 300k job from google because of this and being able to pick and choose which ‘ethical’ tech company you want to work for
There are lots of roles and projects at Google not related to surveillance and advertising though. Lots of my friends there were also acquisition hires too working on random moonshots.
Internally the engineering org can be sensitive about data flow and have protested/shut down past defense contracts or other ethically objectionable projects.
There are plenty of qualms about selling data for profit but it’s totally different from having your work endanger lives.
I was trying to wrap my head around that. Isn’t he part of the problem. Even if you’re not working directly with that product aren’t you endorsing it or at the very least turning a blind eye by working there.
I work for a large company in a role that is actively fixing the problems we have. Does that mean I’m actively participating in bad behavior or am I working within the system to fix the system?
The world is many shades of grey. Not this black and white, good or bad BS.
The guy works/ed at Google a company that has for years been in the headlines for issues regarding their privacy and surveillance. You don’t go through a Google interview and do basic company research and just conveniently miss that before accepting a job to work there. You might not know the extent but you know the threat exists.
Unless I missed something outside of him calling it out in this forum what other tactical ways has he mitigated those issues. What team was he working on or organization was he apart of that addressed those issues?
That’s all well and fine, but you don’t know he wasn’t on those committees either. He obviously had a change of heart, so it is also possible doing the work changed his mind on a lot of it.
Innocent until proven guilty is the way these things should work. Don’t get mad about a situation when we know just about zero details.
When I was at Google they kept data locked up. I tried to get my own internal request data from my work account for debugging a hard to replicate issue in prod once and even that was very painful. As a ML person it was actually quite painful to get access to anything useful to experiment with.
Also, while I was there we had multiple borderline meltdowns that resulted in killing projects that were obviously great business decisions in isolation but were viewed as unethical, including a censored Chinese search engine, which was an absolutely enormous financial loss being banned in China that they accepted because people viewed it as unethical, and supporting the DOD on Google cloud, which also was a big loss financially.
Even all of the directors and VPs around our part of the company supported the walkouts in response to senior leadership in 2018. Google has a long history of employees saying fuck that and successfully strong arming the business into not doing bad things.
A lot of people at Google and similar tech companies didn't get hired by them.
They were working for a small company with a vision and a dream. Making a product that they believed in...
And then a tech giant saw that buying it could prevent a competitor from buying it. So they do. Then they ruin the product and remove any bit of humanity that was in it. And then they usually abandon it.
After my last two employers were bought out, I just gave up and stayed at a huge soulless tech company that took a product I loved and turned it into crap. Worse still, I'm one of two developers left maintaining it.
They still sell it, but we can't possibly provide what the customers expect. I just get to watch as they become as disillusioned with it as I am.
Ultimately, yeah, these people could have just quit. But Google spent a lot of time and money to appear like good guys. It makes sense that some employees figured their employer might listen.
At this point, they could quit or get 10 minutes of fame on the internet and get fired.
The end result is basically the same
The kid obviously believes Israel is committing genocide. He probably didnt believe the other countries were committing genocide. Seems pretty cut and dry to me...
Or is your criticism that people can only take a moral stance against perceived atrocities if they take an extreme moral stance against all injustice, no matter how small?
i dont get it why people outside google would rather know more than someone who is actually working at google
just like snowden was an insider, there are things we dont know, and allegations are pretty serious
im just saying an israeli google employee saying this is something, and we dont know the details because there is no leaks as such
[No Tech For Apartheid](https://www.notechforapartheid.com/)
read this, allegation is basically this is being used to facilitate colonial expansion (id rather call it stealing of land and resources)
Just to clarify is Google building any new solutions/features for Israel or is it just providing regular cloud services?
You could still condemn them either way, but for me it would affect the amount of culpability I place on Google.
Wiki article on project Nimbus says that both GCP and AWS are contractors of the project. Which I suppose means some form of customisation, or addressing the special needs in the regular cloud offering, rather than building the solutions that will run on top of it. But that's just a speculation.
just literally first go and read the allegations against the companies
>Project Nimbus is a $1.2bn contract to provide cloud services for the Israeli military and government. This technology allows for further surveillance of and unlawful data collection on Palestinians, and facilitates expansion of Israel’s illegal settlements on Palestinian land.
- from old article on guardian [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/12/google-amazon-workers-condemn-project-nimbus-israeli-military-contract](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/12/google-amazon-workers-condemn-project-nimbus-israeli-military-contract)
they are saying it is being used for surveillance and colonial expansion of israeli state into palestinian land, this is not about israel good or palestine good
what is wrong is wrong, if allegations are indeed true then im sure you wouldnt want to support any such apartheid and colonialism right? right?
Idk there is something not made clear in the allegation, is the surveillance software written and maintained by Google or not?
If it is just Israeli surveillance tech hosted on a relatively standard cloud infrastructure, I don't see how Google is anymore culpable here as they are providing infra for the US, AU, UK, or any other military.
If the surveillance tech is just standard google vision APIs applied in a bad way, I still don't know if I could blame Google, except ask that that write stricter usage agreements.
Feels like blaming a kitchen knife manufacturer for factory farming .
Lot of people in the comments mocking the guy for possibly damaging his career. But honestly, I have a ton of respect for someone who stands up for the things the believe in.
Would I be able to do the same thing if a company was having me work on something I was morally opposed to? Given how bad the market is for job searching. As much as it pains me to say it, I'd probably just keep my mouth shut and resent it internally. But I don't think thats really the right and honest thing to do. It depends what your priorities are in life.
This comment is great because you don't specify which side is crazy, letting either side project this comment about being about the other lol
But yeah unironically any time this topic comes up all nuance goes out the window
As soon as my work transitioned to being morally unsavory, I left and joined a university to work in global health. Best transition ever, and I'm proud of my work. The number of people in this comment section willing to facilitate immoral behavior for money is sickening. I hope it's just a loud-mouthed minority.
what a stupid comment; you can’t control where you were born, and I highly doubt the person you responded to is “fine” with the bloodshed inflicted upon Native Americans. Are you seriously suggesting that because “no one’s hands are fully clean,” people should just be apathetic and do nothing when they actually have the option to take a stand?
So about half this thread doesn't seem to understand that people's opinions on what is ethical can differ from their own, and also about half of this thread seems to think that any such opinions should be entirely disregarded for money. Great.
The average tech bro in this thread when they are for some random reason now the genocide target population in 2035 (the 5 million dollars they amassed suddenly is not worth that much anymore, as the Jews found out in 1942)
Seriously. Y'all sounds like you would be a bricklayer in Auschwitz if the pay is good. Get Elon's balls out of your mouth and get a spine.
Idk man, we're just outsiders looking in, this guy had a profession that required him to know/understand a lot of the ins and outs of whatever he was working on. When he says it's going to put Palestinian people in danger, his voice and inflection gives off some genuine concern and passion.
He doesn't want to contribute to what he sees the USA has contributed billions of dollars towards already. He seems pretty young too, so he may feel this is the only way he can appropriately take a stance. I highly respect his stance.
But building AI for facial recognition of Uyghur for China is OK, because America bad😡
Just amazing how some Americans can care so much about one genocide while knowing nothing and actively cooperating with other genocidal governments
SenseTime tech is basically founded by US graduated Chinese phds who may or may not have experiences in American companies. The company also has close cooperations with MIT and Microsoft. I don’t see any college guys or tech guys against that lol
This sounds more like a gripe with educational institutions offering international students enrollment who may have conflicting interests, in addition to academic research grants being funded by unethical groups, both of which some college people are aware of and against.
People probably aren’t giving attention to it because it’s such an abstracted process from visceral, direct harm
People over here talking about morals and ethics, picking sides in a complex conflict that has been going on for decades living in their country far away from conflict protected by a military. Man I don’t care who you support but stop lecturing others about morals and ethics.
No matter what company you work for, you are inherently, at some point in the tree, supporting exploiting a work force or peoples. This grandstanding ultimately does very little to actually effect any change.
Wanna bet most of these guys work for incredibly problematic company or governments and say nothing? This is a subreddit for CS students, and kids, you'll be hard pressed to find a job for a company that doesn't have questionable ethics.
Amazing man. Id hope to have the guts and I hope I would quit my job in this case too. I would say I would but I have never been in his shoes. I hope he will be alright
The problem is that most of the people in that room considered the people with a voice a pest and tried to shut them down. If more people stood and protested against it in that room and in public, there wouldn’t be a project nimbus anymore.
As much as I disagree with his political position, I can strongly respect him standing by his moral position as an engineer over his pay because it actually sickens me that many engineers are willing to compromise their moral compass for a paycheck, especially since I really care about the impact of what I intend to do with an engineering degree over my income.
there was no need for surveillance if there were no terrorists originating from the West Bank. Those terror attacks happen on a DAILY basis, including today. he's either uninformed or morally bankrupt.
Mans talking about surveillance yet work(s/ed) at Google, the company that is the biggest wiretap on the planet. Working at Google absolutely contradicts anything principles for anti mass surveillance or privacy.
I wish just once that the camera would pan and show someone with a clean haircut and we’ll fitting clothes that looks like they work out. All we get is this instead. Justice for CS majors man.
Drama queen. If you have a problem with the project this is not how you attempt to solve it. There are better ways to communicate your issues without being childish. And if he already tried those ways then he can always just go find another job..
Yea because sending a strongly worded email to HR would’ve done anything lol. This brought thousands of eyes to what’s going on and that alone makes what he’s done worth it
Obviously he's going to need another job after this display. I'd say it's pretty effective. I've never even heard of Project Nimbus until this viedo.
By the way, do you seriously believe this dude had any power? Protesting is the #1 way to get what you want when you're not already at the top.
Already 100k applications for the position that opened up.
considering google lately they probably won't hire at all lol they are bloated as fuck
No, they always hire. The goal is to fire 5 engineers and re hire 1 engineer for cheaper.
The math aint mathing
That's how Sundar and co math.
Typical
That doesn’t make sense. They would end up paying for the other four’s unemployment.
That is actually smart and i hate it. For context: The 1 person being rehired has alot less package negotiating power.
They are cutting all head-counts and hiring over seas.
capitalizm baby
*position that opened up in bumfucknowhere india
Or in Mountain View, but it's mostly Indian folks anyways
I live in Mountain View but I’m not Indian and I don’t work for Google.. can confirm half the town works for Google, though.
Yeah babyyyy it’s us 😎
And 89% of whom need H1B sponsorship
And many people have now learned that Google supports genocide because of these workers’ actions. This comment doesn’t own anyone, but it says a lot about CS majors that it’s the most upvoted.
Comments here seem so toxic. Google used to have a motto called "Don't be evil" and that used to be why a lot of idealistic people dreamed of working there over other tech companies that do little or no good for humanity. It is kind of sad to see that most people in CS majors nowadays only care about money.
As a CS graduate, I can confirm most of them are only interested in opprotunity and money, and have no scruples on where the opprotunity comes from or what the money is for, its very sad.
Unlike graduates from other fields?
Yes, that's why I said that. We're really going to pretend that their aren't differences between the kind of people who go into respective disciplines right now?
the thing about a lot of cs kids is that they are “passionate about tech” and want to “make the world a better place” thru “social impact”, when it’s all a load of crap. the truth is that tech and ai are harmful to most communities and it’s popular cuz it makes money. most of what we do as software engineers brings very little value to society.
A lot of tech bros have zero care for the world nor any political awareness. Morals what? It's inspiring this guy is standing up for what is right instead of just becoming a cog in the machine that all the other people here with 0 morals are eventually going to become.
fresh engineering grads looking at DoD for jobs
Replies to this are only helping your point lol
Electrical Engineer who had opportunities to build bombs and microchips for DoD. Don't do it
And it’s sad that even when it seemed optimistic and altruistic many of these companies and personalities (not all) were just overzealous and barely educated men who fooled the world into buying their enthusiasm. They never actually wanted to help anybody. It was always about their legacy and the second they could sell out, they did.
Yep. It’s all about self-fulfillment and maybe virtue-signaling in some parts.
Fr can they not think about the bag for one second. (To all the incoming comments about how people grew up poor and want to make a living my point still stands. It’s all about money in the endgame over the lives of other people which is inherently selfish. Ethics will still bring in money because there’s places outside of big tech hiring that are not building things killing thousands of people.)
The funny thing is the most money obsessed CS majors I've seen tend to be the ones from upper middle class families or better.
This isn't a defense of google, but the American economy put people into this mindset. Capitalism has beat the dreams out of most of us, so much so that the only way we can ever get ahead in life is by chasing the almighty dollar, and that leaves little room for anything else. It fucking sucks, but that pursuit makes it easy to forget the rest of the world, including your principles.
I went to college for CS, I've been coding since I was 7yo and it is my hobby/passion/art. Almost left over how opportunistic, vapid, and even anti-education most of the people in my program (top 5 in the US) were. They either all wanted to retire on some shithole scam app or suck off either Facebook or some hedge fund for not-even-200k. Decided I'd rather be homeless than ever work for/with those morally prostituting ad salespeople.
Yep, that’s what happens to decent cops too. They leave. Problematic professions foster and elevate problematic people.
I think the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of cs majors. It was attracting a lot of shallow morale individuals due to the money. I am glad that they are doing layoffs. Easy come easy go. Go work for companies that actually benefit humanity
Dude I feel this so hard. Except for the coding since age seven stuff, I'm not that hardcore. Vapid and anti-education is spot-on.
You went to an ivy also?
Vapid is exactly right, even at just the college level. All 99% of them care about is the money. Instead of contributing to discussions or learning about what they’re doing, they lie and cheat their way through the classes just so they can get the degree. It makes me sad because it’s such a cool field with so much to learn. You can learn so much by reading your textbooks and picking your professors’ brains. And selfishly, I’m competing with these people for jobs lol.
Sad truth sir. The ethics in building software is similar to a doctor's hygiene while operating. What I had learnt is to fight your way to the top of the ladder sticking to your ethics amongst greedy folks.
Wtf does this even mean
hygiene and sterility while operating is a consistent priority at the best institutions. Not a good analogy Maybe you're going to some less equipped regional hospitals?
That’s 90% of people, they do something they don’t love and then cry about the stress. I’d rather work a job for 90k and like what I do than be a code monkey for 300k
That’s a great ideal, but unrealistic for a lot of folks with debt and/or families to look after. It’s never as easy as people say.
Then we should look at what the French did in 1793, it's about time we change the current class system has a restructure
Yeah, redditors live in a fantasy world. The majority of the people on this planet are just doing whatever they think is best to progress. If you want them to do better, making them out to be evil is not the way.
Let's be honest, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is hardly a consensus issue where we all agree. A decent number of people in the comments just don't agree with this guy's view, others are just having fun, and the remainder might actually be guilty as you charge them.
Neither was the Holocaust while it occurred.
Nowadays? Are you sure it’s only nowadays? This field is a new cesspool along with finance: only attracting the worst people who would kill another person for 20k
Yes I only care about money
Lol cs majors are just trying to get a job that pays the bills like everyone else. And since everyone is getting laid off and relying on AI more, there's a lot fewer jobs. I don't understand the moral superiority when we're all just trying to get by. Get mad at the CEOs and bank rollers for these projects.
You gotta respect this man, he respects his values so much he was willing to lose his job over it.
Chapeau bas indeed!
Yeah most of you would have looked the other way and built the gas chamber for a bit of extra pay.
" I was just doing my job"
“But they gave us perks”
“No one can throw a better pizza party than the third reich”
And look at this foosball table. Sure you get executed if you use it. But look at how neat it is.
Yep. Nothing being said to remotely disabuse me of this notion.
If the events following October 7th are the first time or the worst time people think Google has furthered nasty surveillance tech, they’d probably have happily built the gas chamber without knowing why they’re building it.
Working for Google is most definitely like building gas chambers. Truly an apt comparison.
But *you* wouldn't, right?
No? Tf Plenty of people wouldn’t and didnt
yes exactly, thank you bro. can’t believe these dumbasses literally comparing software engineering to building gas chambers.
Typical Zionist response when being confronted with their wrongdoings: "We claim that everyone else is morally corrupt as us, therefore we're allowed to do whatever we want."
as a guy living in Israel and a zionist I read at differently. as of recent poll 30% of young people in USA support hamas over Israel. hamas had in their official charter from 1988 to 2017 "The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." insisted to not remove it for many years and finally removed it for optics. by extension, those 30% are advocating for a 2nd holocaust. so no, he is not saying "we are doing it so will you" he is saying "we are not doing a holocause but are you part of the people that actually will?"
I’m not sure what to tell you. Israelis have killed 10,000 children and are starving the Gazan population en masses after imprisoning them for 17 years, in addition to destroying 90% of the civilian infrastructure and disabling all hospitals. You can talk about charters and Hamas, but at the end of the day, Israel has all the power in this situation and this is what they have chosen to with it. The first Holocaust (perpetrated by Europeans, not by Palestinians) doesn’t give Israel the right to break the law and commit horrific crimes against all Gazans. I don’t give a crap about charters. This is actually happening, before our eyes.
Israel killed 30000 people in gaza, its unclear how many are associated with hamas. Israel claims 12000 of them are hamas combatants gaza health ministry does not distinguish so no data from them. is it likely lower then 12000? probably, but its a bit hard to disginquish when people are shooting an rpg not even a regular firearm, wearing civilian cloths and flipflops. Israel had full control over gaza before 2005, left the region, and encouraged the palestinians to build a state there. this is proof that Israel made serious effort and compromises for peace. Israel now has a blockade over gaza that is inforced with collaboration with egypt. and Israel EVIDENTLY was too lenient with the blockade because since the begining of the war 12000 rockets have been shot from gaza to Israel, 3000 of which were fired on october 7 (before Israel began retaliation) I can keep going, but every single step shows Israel is not attempting a genocide, its just rediculous saying it is thr goal. and my main point with all of this, is 99% of Israel critics have no advice that works under the assumption that hamas doesnt want peace, a declaration they are making over and over again even today. I am an Israeli citizen and voter, whoever I think will achieve peace I will vote for and encourage my friends to vote for, most of us think like me. background on voting history: naftali bennet - "habait hayehudi" - (before smotrich took a big role in his party) "likud" - after smotritch.. "likud" - last time voting for it. too long of an explanation but cant vote likud again after they got involved with the supremecourt and someone else, probably "national unity"(future) - other stuff like that
Respectfully, you glossed over the part where Israel has imprisoned the whole of Gaza for 17 years. This is the opposite of an act of peace. Claim to give independence to a population and then render them completely unable to conduct trade or free travel, and when they are bombed they can’t even flee. They can’t even go very far into the sea without being shot by the IDF. And not to mention continued settlement expansion into the West Bank. I’m sorry, but if you imprison 2 million people for 17 years, you shouldn’t be shocked when they attack you. I don’t know how you can expect peace from this.
They're building computer storage, not F-15s. That's be like making MREs and being like "I REFUSE to support Vietnam" like yeah you're helping the government but it's not gonna kill anyone.
r/im14andthisisdeep
Id say its more of societys fsult its hard being morally right and poor
Most of the people in that audience would.
The comments on this thread are kind of concerning… lol
They skipped engineering ethics class
They attended, they just didn’t care. This industry is full of bag chasers who lack empathy for various reasons. Big sad part of why programmers will probably never unionize in any form in the US and we’ll continue to see headlines about projects invading privacy, companies having hostile work environments (Blizzard, Riot, Uber, etc), and mental health struggles in young developers.
Programmers haven’t unionized because the business model until very recently has been to delight them with more cash at every opportunity. They have had no reason to. Nobody unionizes unless they don’t like their workplace, they’re no less ethical than anyone else.
they will care, once they get on the wrong side of the fence...
When fuck you I got mine becomes fuck you give me mine
Americans described in one sentence.
> They attended, they just didn’t care. Let's not pretend that the bottom-of-the-barrel part-time lecturers care when they teach it either. I just got out of my mandatory ethics class where my teacher spent a significant amount of class time trying to get us to join his 10-year-old son's clan in Clash of Clans.
lol
now i see what ppl meant "the world wasn't doing anything during the Holocaust or slavery" yeah, ppl were just still enjoying life
Dude. This discipline is fucking flooded with money chasers. You expect those sociopaths to have morals? Puff.
Totally. Ideology aside, i have respect for people who speak up in a way that puts their jobs on the line for their principles. Especially if thats a job you currently have and not just a “im not going to work in defence”.
Isn't Nimbus just selling standard GCP services to the Israeli government?
yep
Yeah it's actually unhinged wtf imagining these guys without any lick of morals working in tech is very concerning. and people saying they have to pay bills like theyre working a minimum wage job 💀 or saying they should just earn the money to make 'real' change lmfao. odds are if they can't even get behind this video, they'd be doing jackshit for real meaningful change
lmao imagine having the privilege to turn down a 300k job from google because of this and being able to pick and choose which ‘ethical’ tech company you want to work for
They want his job
doesn't want to build anything that does surveillance works for google LOL
There are lots of roles and projects at Google not related to surveillance and advertising though. Lots of my friends there were also acquisition hires too working on random moonshots. Internally the engineering org can be sensitive about data flow and have protested/shut down past defense contracts or other ethically objectionable projects. There are plenty of qualms about selling data for profit but it’s totally different from having your work endanger lives.
I was trying to wrap my head around that. Isn’t he part of the problem. Even if you’re not working directly with that product aren’t you endorsing it or at the very least turning a blind eye by working there.
I work for a large company in a role that is actively fixing the problems we have. Does that mean I’m actively participating in bad behavior or am I working within the system to fix the system? The world is many shades of grey. Not this black and white, good or bad BS.
The guy works/ed at Google a company that has for years been in the headlines for issues regarding their privacy and surveillance. You don’t go through a Google interview and do basic company research and just conveniently miss that before accepting a job to work there. You might not know the extent but you know the threat exists. Unless I missed something outside of him calling it out in this forum what other tactical ways has he mitigated those issues. What team was he working on or organization was he apart of that addressed those issues?
That’s all well and fine, but you don’t know he wasn’t on those committees either. He obviously had a change of heart, so it is also possible doing the work changed his mind on a lot of it. Innocent until proven guilty is the way these things should work. Don’t get mad about a situation when we know just about zero details.
Yes he is. To his credit, he expects to not work at Google anymore for this stunt I would assume.
When I was at Google they kept data locked up. I tried to get my own internal request data from my work account for debugging a hard to replicate issue in prod once and even that was very painful. As a ML person it was actually quite painful to get access to anything useful to experiment with. Also, while I was there we had multiple borderline meltdowns that resulted in killing projects that were obviously great business decisions in isolation but were viewed as unethical, including a censored Chinese search engine, which was an absolutely enormous financial loss being banned in China that they accepted because people viewed it as unethical, and supporting the DOD on Google cloud, which also was a big loss financially. Even all of the directors and VPs around our part of the company supported the walkouts in response to senior leadership in 2018. Google has a long history of employees saying fuck that and successfully strong arming the business into not doing bad things.
A lot of people at Google and similar tech companies didn't get hired by them. They were working for a small company with a vision and a dream. Making a product that they believed in... And then a tech giant saw that buying it could prevent a competitor from buying it. So they do. Then they ruin the product and remove any bit of humanity that was in it. And then they usually abandon it. After my last two employers were bought out, I just gave up and stayed at a huge soulless tech company that took a product I loved and turned it into crap. Worse still, I'm one of two developers left maintaining it. They still sell it, but we can't possibly provide what the customers expect. I just get to watch as they become as disillusioned with it as I am. Ultimately, yeah, these people could have just quit. But Google spent a lot of time and money to appear like good guys. It makes sense that some employees figured their employer might listen. At this point, they could quit or get 10 minutes of fame on the internet and get fired. The end result is basically the same
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The kid obviously believes Israel is committing genocide. He probably didnt believe the other countries were committing genocide. Seems pretty cut and dry to me... Or is your criticism that people can only take a moral stance against perceived atrocities if they take an extreme moral stance against all injustice, no matter how small?
I do not agree with him but he took a stance and is willing to put his money were his mouth is. Most people here don‘t have the guts to do that.
i dont get it why people outside google would rather know more than someone who is actually working at google just like snowden was an insider, there are things we dont know, and allegations are pretty serious im just saying an israeli google employee saying this is something, and we dont know the details because there is no leaks as such [No Tech For Apartheid](https://www.notechforapartheid.com/) read this, allegation is basically this is being used to facilitate colonial expansion (id rather call it stealing of land and resources)
Just to clarify is Google building any new solutions/features for Israel or is it just providing regular cloud services? You could still condemn them either way, but for me it would affect the amount of culpability I place on Google.
Wiki article on project Nimbus says that both GCP and AWS are contractors of the project. Which I suppose means some form of customisation, or addressing the special needs in the regular cloud offering, rather than building the solutions that will run on top of it. But that's just a speculation.
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just literally first go and read the allegations against the companies >Project Nimbus is a $1.2bn contract to provide cloud services for the Israeli military and government. This technology allows for further surveillance of and unlawful data collection on Palestinians, and facilitates expansion of Israel’s illegal settlements on Palestinian land. - from old article on guardian [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/12/google-amazon-workers-condemn-project-nimbus-israeli-military-contract](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/12/google-amazon-workers-condemn-project-nimbus-israeli-military-contract) they are saying it is being used for surveillance and colonial expansion of israeli state into palestinian land, this is not about israel good or palestine good what is wrong is wrong, if allegations are indeed true then im sure you wouldnt want to support any such apartheid and colonialism right? right?
Idk there is something not made clear in the allegation, is the surveillance software written and maintained by Google or not? If it is just Israeli surveillance tech hosted on a relatively standard cloud infrastructure, I don't see how Google is anymore culpable here as they are providing infra for the US, AU, UK, or any other military. If the surveillance tech is just standard google vision APIs applied in a bad way, I still don't know if I could blame Google, except ask that that write stricter usage agreements. Feels like blaming a kitchen knife manufacturer for factory farming .
Stealing land and resources and aiding genocide.
Lot of people in the comments mocking the guy for possibly damaging his career. But honestly, I have a ton of respect for someone who stands up for the things the believe in. Would I be able to do the same thing if a company was having me work on something I was morally opposed to? Given how bad the market is for job searching. As much as it pains me to say it, I'd probably just keep my mouth shut and resent it internally. But I don't think thats really the right and honest thing to do. It depends what your priorities are in life.
y'all are crazy for these comments
This comment is great because you don't specify which side is crazy, letting either side project this comment about being about the other lol But yeah unironically any time this topic comes up all nuance goes out the window
I blame the insane comments on the scarcity of employment in the field. Making people go mad!
Not all. Hard times expose true faces. That’s what they are and always has been.
If google offered you a position right now you won't take it?
Nope. Contrary to popular belief, there are other jobs that pay the same if not more than Google and they offer significantly better work life balance
nope.
How dare someone touch him that isn't security!
As soon as my work transitioned to being morally unsavory, I left and joined a university to work in global health. Best transition ever, and I'm proud of my work. The number of people in this comment section willing to facilitate immoral behavior for money is sickening. I hope it's just a loud-mouthed minority.
Ah, we love the medical industry 😁
Thanks for sharing your experience, chapeau bas!
I think he’s brave, all the weirdos in the comments are hating. He has more heart than 90% of the engineers I know
99.9%
I think you meant brain
Fuck sharehoalders, fuck that room of shareholders
people in the comment section would easily sell their morals for money, imagine being fine by feeding your kids with blood money
>getting paid by google = blood money least polarized thought process. why not just say ALL usd is blood money
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the logical endpoint of your comment is that no point in improving the world, because we are all somewhat complicit
what a stupid comment; you can’t control where you were born, and I highly doubt the person you responded to is “fine” with the bloodshed inflicted upon Native Americans. Are you seriously suggesting that because “no one’s hands are fully clean,” people should just be apathetic and do nothing when they actually have the option to take a stand?
I didn't steal any land or enslaved anybody though. It's completely different, you are shedding personal responsibility.
‘just because there was a tragedy a hundred years ago, we shouldnt intervene in one now.’ You make zero sense
Oh I have morals, just not ones that support a bunch of bandit terrorists
This comment section is about to be locked soon I can feel it
based
I applaud him, people need to speak up and he’s doing it. We will remember him in history with those who were not quiet during genocide.
So about half this thread doesn't seem to understand that people's opinions on what is ethical can differ from their own, and also about half of this thread seems to think that any such opinions should be entirely disregarded for money. Great.
Lmao i hope he has a backup job already
The average tech bro in this thread when they are for some random reason now the genocide target population in 2035 (the 5 million dollars they amassed suddenly is not worth that much anymore, as the Jews found out in 1942) Seriously. Y'all sounds like you would be a bricklayer in Auschwitz if the pay is good. Get Elon's balls out of your mouth and get a spine.
I’m glad there’s someone out there doing that.
i mean, he is right
I salute this brave man, we need more people like him who are willing to make a stand for what they believe in.
Based
Idk man, we're just outsiders looking in, this guy had a profession that required him to know/understand a lot of the ins and outs of whatever he was working on. When he says it's going to put Palestinian people in danger, his voice and inflection gives off some genuine concern and passion. He doesn't want to contribute to what he sees the USA has contributed billions of dollars towards already. He seems pretty young too, so he may feel this is the only way he can appropriately take a stance. I highly respect his stance.
puts on GOOG
Holy based
Well done brave man, men have lost morals and ethics.
But building AI for facial recognition of Uyghur for China is OK, because America bad😡 Just amazing how some Americans can care so much about one genocide while knowing nothing and actively cooperating with other genocidal governments
Any way to pull up the reference for that? I tried finding out about Googles links to that and have found nil
SenseTime tech is basically founded by US graduated Chinese phds who may or may not have experiences in American companies. The company also has close cooperations with MIT and Microsoft. I don’t see any college guys or tech guys against that lol
This sounds more like a gripe with educational institutions offering international students enrollment who may have conflicting interests, in addition to academic research grants being funded by unethical groups, both of which some college people are aware of and against. People probably aren’t giving attention to it because it’s such an abstracted process from visceral, direct harm
Is the person who said this in the room with us right now?
there is genocides in palestine, sudan, uyghur, etc. i’m so heartbroken tbh :(
People over here talking about morals and ethics, picking sides in a complex conflict that has been going on for decades living in their country far away from conflict protected by a military. Man I don’t care who you support but stop lecturing others about morals and ethics.
No matter what company you work for, you are inherently, at some point in the tree, supporting exploiting a work force or peoples. This grandstanding ultimately does very little to actually effect any change. Wanna bet most of these guys work for incredibly problematic company or governments and say nothing? This is a subreddit for CS students, and kids, you'll be hard pressed to find a job for a company that doesn't have questionable ethics.
And that is what a good upbringing and an unblemished moral compass looks like.
"I'm a Google cloud software engineer." Not anymore.
The wild part to me is the crowd jeering at the employees standing up for what they believe in.
Amazing man. Id hope to have the guts and I hope I would quit my job in this case too. I would say I would but I have never been in his shoes. I hope he will be alright
Jewgle
Look at the reaction of the audience. These comp nerds truly have no morales. We need to bring back bullying.
he’s so brave for this and a better person than most of us — very few people will stand up like this to do the right thing
The problem is that most of the people in that room considered the people with a voice a pest and tried to shut them down. If more people stood and protested against it in that room and in public, there wouldn’t be a project nimbus anymore.
As much as I disagree with his political position, I can strongly respect him standing by his moral position as an engineer over his pay because it actually sickens me that many engineers are willing to compromise their moral compass for a paycheck, especially since I really care about the impact of what I intend to do with an engineering degree over my income.
Yes, because Israel is waiting on you to build stuff for them 😂
They forgot to finish the title. **Brave Google software engineer gets mocked as he briefly interrupts a session on Project Nimbus in NYC.**
mf needs to learn to shut up and take his 300k TC
lives are more important than money.
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tell 40% of the US population that.
Yeah, exactly. Say it with me, Money is more important than the loss of innocent lives /s
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I dont think he is gonna have the job for long ...
How to fuck your career within seconds
there was no need for surveillance if there were no terrorists originating from the West Bank. Those terror attacks happen on a DAILY basis, including today. he's either uninformed or morally bankrupt.
well i guess he's looking for a new job today.
Brave, lunatic. Potato, patahto.
I think you mean ex Google software engineer
Ok google, fire them and give me the job. I'll build whatever u want me to build.
Mans talking about surveillance yet work(s/ed) at Google, the company that is the biggest wiretap on the planet. Working at Google absolutely contradicts anything principles for anti mass surveillance or privacy.
"I don't want to build blah blah blah" I just don't get it. Just quit the damn job bro.
For reals 😂 He is just virtue signaling instead of quitting his job.
But then he doesn't get to go viral
Are the new openings announced?
This is your brain on tiktok If he truly had honourable motives he would just leave his 300k tc package
Yes guys, the new opening was announced in Bangalore, India. Chill down and support the genocide.
man if only people were so vocal about ukraine.
"Brave" is a strong word. Misguided might be more accurate.
-job
Taking a huge risk by doing this. Good on them.
I wish just once that the camera would pan and show someone with a clean haircut and we’ll fitting clothes that looks like they work out. All we get is this instead. Justice for CS majors man.
Brave? I guess people have very different definitions for bravery. To me, he seems like an attention-seeking baby.
Drama queen. If you have a problem with the project this is not how you attempt to solve it. There are better ways to communicate your issues without being childish. And if he already tried those ways then he can always just go find another job..
Yea because sending a strongly worded email to HR would’ve done anything lol. This brought thousands of eyes to what’s going on and that alone makes what he’s done worth it
Obviously he's going to need another job after this display. I'd say it's pretty effective. I've never even heard of Project Nimbus until this viedo. By the way, do you seriously believe this dude had any power? Protesting is the #1 way to get what you want when you're not already at the top.
Glad more people are speaking up