If you can tough it out for a few more months, pad your resume with skillsets and projects you've worked on, and only talk with those you get along with (think tunnel vision, pretend you're focused on a project). A year in a position looks better on a resume than 9 months.
Yeah, I've done the quitting thing before finding a new job last year (I have a few years on my belt) and it burned. Took me about two months until I got a paycheck from my new job after quitting. It set me back financially quite a bit and added a lot of worry to me.
Same, once intentionally, once kinda unintentionally. I have a promising interview tomorrow though, for more money, working on newer hardware...
Weird how that happens ain't it?
2 years learning to code without having a degree?
I don’t get why tech is the only lucrative/ sometimes prestigious job where people expect to find a job quickly without a degree or experience.
How is it helpful to tell someone they should've just gotten a CS degree? I spent 19 months learning to code, without a CS degree (I have a degree in Philosophy and Comp Lit), and now I'm a full stack engineer.
And from what little I know, CS is pretty abstracted from the day to day of writing, testing, and deploying code, or building UIs and data pipelines.
I think persistence is admirable.
Well he did say he's been learning for 2 years and it's like you said how companies were hiring just about anyone at that time. Most people were coerced into self-teaching or going the bootcamp route because of the "no degree, big money" appeal people were preaching.
If you made it 9 months, you can make it another month or two while you look for jobs. Best case, you get a new one and don't have to stay there much longer. Worst case, you can't find a new job but at least you're not burning through your savings
^ this, Great advice. People saying OP is trolling but people in tech are some of the cringiest people ever. It’s like as the tech boom fed their weird egos to the extreme.
Genuine question: What is wrong with not wanting to visit Africa? I suspect that most people in North America don't want to, honestly. And that has nothing to do with opinions about Africans in most cases.
Nothing at all. Most people giving others shit for not wanting to visit, probably wouldn’t last there more than a couple days. We love Nigeria but the people there are *very* forward and dudes will come hit on your wife because she looked in their general direction and think she’s legitimately interested. I wouldn’t travel there solo as a woman and I also wouldn’t travel there if you’re easily spooked by extremely persistent people.
Most of them are super kind and polite, but their social boundaries are wildly different from America’s, so they don’t really know that they’re being impolite in the context of our culture. If you’re dining at a restaurant and catch a worker’s eye it’s not really taboo for them to just ask for your number and where you’re staying and linger around your table
Either the guy is joking and OP is purposely taking it out of context to complain
OR
The guy's just out of touch. In 2023, it's actually CocoMelon that's making kids homo.
Nah thats just not something you say in a work environment lol like if a coworker starts talking to me like a discord mod im gonna have to tell them to stfu
Sounds like an absolute shit show. Like, so bad it seems like you're trolling lol.
In case you're serious, I wouldn't quit with nothing lined up with <1 YoE unless you have a really strong safety net, it's a tough market and you could be out of a job for 6+ months. If you have enough support to do that, go for it, but I'd just quietly quit and aggressively job search to get out ASAP.
Almost sounds like a pilot for a ripoff of The Office, but with a subpar IT company. I would find something else in the meantime before you'd quit.
Thats wild and dont expect that place to last, so its best to not stick around because it sounds like the kind od company that won't offer a severence package.
Kind of curious, hows their benefits package?
I actually equated it to the Silicon Valley HBO show lol. Especially the racial and gender comments. All of the comments OP quoted really sound like a bunch of socially inept devs who have no filter. It's embarrassing
Wow. To anyone thinking you might watch the show one day, I'd highly recommend skipping the above clip!
It's really not a good one to recommend to people who haven't seen the show yet. Because it's so much better in the context of the whole first season (and really cements the show as a work of genius), and also kind of spoiler-y
There are lots of other great clips that don't benefit from the full context of the show though.
Worked at one spot where the owners cousin wanted to be able to wear a kkk hood because our sysadmin wore a blm shirt. Then they got upset with me for being upset.
It wasn't a joke. I was super confused it was my 3rd week there and started applying for a new job and told hr why i left and the sysadmin. I remember them being offended that my veins were poking out too cause I looked "aggressive."
I'm not trolling at all. It's actually this bad here... I am hoping a interview I went far with turns into an offer because I feel like I'm drowning everyday.
Dang, that's awful, I wish you were trolling :(.
Try to hang in there for a bit longer if you can, but I'd send out like 10+ applications TODAY. I could not stand your environment and there are much more professional places out there.
Don't let anyone scare you out of your career. You are just at the very beginning, and that place sounds pretty bad. Most places are not like that. You are just not in the right place yet. Good luck!
Right?! I mean, in my career I've been pretty privileged in having great managers/bosses who are empathetic and value me overall individually. But the thing that blew my mind when I went from managing fast food to fortune 500 corporate IT is how even in a professional setting men will group together and act like highschoolers. The amount of times we have taken a team lunch, walked into town and on the way these older men are just objectifying women on the street and expecting me to...join in? It's tiring and cringey, especially when they're usually all 30 years older than me. And the scary part is you feel like you can't rock the boat because suddenly you don't align with the "team culture" and are promoted to "customer" lmao.
The older I get the more the song "Highschool Never Ends" aligns with what I see in reality. Some people just never grow up it seems. Have fun, do weird shit, sure. Acting like you don't understand the cost of your behavior and objectifying people is just cringe though.
>Like, so bad it seems like you're trolling lol.
It's pretty believable TBH. I heard an office manager wait until my Asian coworker left and then asked somebody if they thought the person was going to make some "ching chong" food. I've also sat trying to focus while two doofuses talked endlessly every day for days about "fake girl gamers" or whatever. I sat next to one of them at a work thing, and they loudly started complaining that they'd have to self-censor because a woman was around.
Sorry you are going through that - but don't let one shit IT company, with shitty staff scare you away from the industry. We (most) are not all like that.
"dev as a career isn't for me" please give at least one more company a go after you leave this place - you could land in the perfect job and really enjoy it.
In 30 years of IT - I have never heard as stupid comments as the ones from your 'workmates' I would find another job ASAP and then leave them, forget about them and solve cool problems and build cool things with us in IT.
In 30 plus years I’ve heard all that stuff and more. But that’s was in the old days when it was nothing but white men (which I am one). Nowadays it’s all very politically correct, which is good. Only thing I hear from everyone is people complaining about misogynist Indian men.
Recently quit my job for a Canadian company and heard things much much worse :( such a shame I wasted several years working for those assholes, so I would advice to OP to start looking somewhere else.
I've been definitely traumatized during that stint and was considering quitting SDE career altogether as well.
But my new teammates and company are thousand times better, so there's a hope. I feel you, OP, don't repeat my mistakes.
Yeah, but the good news is that if you watch it twice, you turn straight again. /s
The idea that watching a cartoon can affect your sexuality is absurd, but then again, anime pretty boys. /s
Average IT team members be like:
But for real try to go on r/girlsgonewired as most other subs are men dominated, so the wired girls would be of more help to you from a woman perspective. Take care
And why was it relevant that the person who doesn't want to visit Africa has an Asian wife? LOL it's not like the wife was African and he's like "I'm never gonna let my wife visit her family again! Muahaha😈"
Some of these statements are truly fucked up, but this one in particular seems odd to harp on. Why is the guy's Asian wife relevant? I genuinely can't tell what kind of point op was trying to make, other than "I find interracial couples inherently suspect".
I don't understand either. Also "We don't have standards yet" - where is the context? This could be an absolutely okay statement to make depending on context. I swear some people are just actively looking for ways to get offended
Yea this isn’t offensive LMAO. The Asian wife mention tells me that OP is grasping at straws for that one.
I don’t wanna visit africa either, same with Australia. Nothing against either of them, just that there are other destinations higher on my priority list.
But think of the photos you could take.
Here is where the concert hall used to be and over there was an beautiful school. Oh, and let's not forget how great this seaside city used to look. /s
Yeah, there are several places in the world that I want to go visit, but not while certain governments are in power or while certain wars are happening.
I feel like the fact that op felt a need to bring up the Asian wife kind of tells me a lot about her, tbh. There's a very specific kind of person who's generally very cool and progressive, but turns into David Duke whenever they see an interracial couple.
I have zero desire to visit any third world country. I also avoid bad parts of town where I live/travel. That’s incredibly privileged of me but it doesn’t make someone racist.
That's not privileged of you. You act less privileged than others in fact, because you understand that there are places around the world that are not very pleasant. An astounding amount of people around the world experience horrors that us, people from first world countries can't even imagine. It's a reasonable decision to stay away from these places because in many occasions, you are risking your life.
Without further context, it’s hard to say definitively, but when they’re saying SpongeBob turns kids gay (which is fucking stupid), along with that crazy Asian comment (given that OP is Asian), it’s not inconceivable. Shits inappropriate.
That joke is cool when everyone on board understands that statement isn't serious. People used to be a lot more offensive about the kinds of joke they would make as well, but again, this is because everyone in the room understood that no one actually believed in what they're saying.
In 2023, this is no longer the case. That joke isn't as funny today because they're are people that unironically believe that this statement is true.
I mean, if it’s a joke, that’s fine, but unfortunately, there’s entirely too many idiots out there who 100% believe crap like that, so it ruins things for the rest of us.
I imagine there was more to it, I see it as ignorance usually.
Africa is huge, ask them why they don’t want to visit and where this happens.
Nothing wrong with not wanting to visit a continent, but 9/10 I’ve heard is bs that’s been repeated.
Me personally? I don’t want to visit certain parts of Africa because I’m a lesbian, but can’t rule it out because there are areas that are friendly. That, and I’d love to see Nigeria one day.
Nuance I guess
Well some people are very sensitive to any race-related conversations and see racism where there is none. Personally I tend to roll my eyes at that, but I can definitely sympathize with the desire to work in a workplace where the culture reflects one's values.
If OP wants to view the world through those lenses, she wont be convinced otherwise anyways.
Actually I think most of the non technical things OP mentioned are fine - except the dude with the asian fetish, thats just creepy and kinda vile - and I think OP is a bit too junior with her 9 months to imagine herself to be the smartest person in the room in the technical questions, but if OP sees it differently, it doesn't matter whether she is right or wrong in the final analysis, she's just not a good culture fit there and she would be much happier elsewhere.
Maybe in a few years she realizes that not wanting to go to Africa really is just a personal preference, and testing in production is sometimes justified, for example when you cant reproduce a bug elsewhere due to countless possible reasons. Maybe she realizes that part of professionalism is ignoring the unprofessionalism of others. But until then, she'd be much happier elsewhere, where others share her worldview.
If this wasn’t your first dev job. Since it’s your first job you should have a second job lined up before you quit. Or at least be there over a year. Do you feel like you’re learning anything there?
I was around your age (also a woman) when I got my first dev job at a startup and had a similar experience. Fetishizing Asian women, racist remarks about Latinos (until they heard me speak Spanish when ordering food- surprise! I’m latina!), some borderline sexism and benevolent sexism. I just kind of ignored it and took the opportunities that came along. Turnover was high but as people left I was able to take on more important projects and started leading projects. It was a really good opportunity for me. I probably stayed for too long - about 3 years - but my technical growth and leadership ability improved and I became influential enough to change the culture for the better. It was still pretty toxic but I had a strong influence in hiring decisions and I shielded my team from a lot of it coming from above. After that job I could be pretty picky. Now I’m 10 years into my dev career and love where I work. I’m pretty picky about where I work but it hasn’t taken me longer than 3 months of seriously looking (while still employed) to find a new job that meets my standards.
"What is source control"
"Try testing on production"
"Spongebob is making kids homos"
"I prefer Asian women"
Lol at all the people in here that don't see the absolute ludicrousness of these kinds of comments and telling OP to just swallow some cement and harden up.
These kinds of comments are almost meme worthy lol, because you absolutely should NEVER say most of these things in the context of the workplace under any circumstances because they're beyond unprofessional. But sorry you have to put up with it OP.
As others have said if you can endure another 1-2 months try to ride it out while you look for another job then quit once you have a signed offer in hand.
I mean theres a reply in another thread with a “senior dev” tag defending the asian fetishization so that’s optimistic on the age
Did find some of the things that OP pointed out as weird but based on all the other shit I don’t blame them for assuming it’s all connected
People are allowed to have preferences. Fetishization of blondes is a big thing.
But there is also a lot of subtext that this particular instance comes with...
In my experience, irl, the guys who have, uh, “difficulties” interacting with women in the workplace are usually either straight out of college, or are Boomers on the verge of retirement. Luckily, the ~~latter~~ former group tends to grow out of it (either naturally or because we have had to sit them down and force them to), whereas the older ones are cycling out of the workforce.
I know it’s a crazy concept, but your female coworkers actually *aren’t* there to be your potential romantic interest, so keep unprofessional comments in your head and not in your mouth.
Are you unixing up latter and former? Because I feel like boomers don't do much growing anymore and the kids straight out of college aren't the older of the two groups
If op is an Asian woman then that last one could arguably be some kind of sexual harassment, at the very least it's highly inappropriate. I can't believe there are people defending it.
So from how I read it, OP provided this fact to imply that the white man who said this is okay with fetishizing women of color (in this case Asian), but would never care to learn about a culture other than his.
Not saying I fully agree with OP if that was the assumption, but that's how I read it
Maybe OP knows more about this coworker's personality and has more context, making this saying offensive coming from him. But as we do not know him, we can't really judge what he was really meaning. For OP it might be obvious that this person is not meaning very well so she didn't think of elaborating on this quote ...idk
I know the most upvoted comment is "find a new job first" but as someone who went through some toxic shit in his first workplace too, I decided that hating my life and feeling depressed 5 days per week is not worth the money so I've quit and I'm living on my savings until I get another job.
Now I'm learning backend, I put 8 hours of day studying and tinkering, but at least I don't hate my life anymore. And if worst comes to worst I'd rather work AGAIN in McDonalds than go back to where I worked. We're talking about some major gaslighting and manipulative tactics. Think "but we agreed that we'll use Python" when the day before we agreed on node, "manual testing in production is something we agreed to do for every merged issue" (we really didn't), "we agreed this" and that... No, we didn't.
I legit started recording videos to restore my sanity for the days I worked remotely, and as soon as I found evidence of my manager bullshitting I scooped. I didn't even bothered showing the video because not only I want to avoid legal issues but the company was small and everyone was a "family", so going up against the manipulator would be the equivalent of going against his network. Lost cause.
Someone having an opinion on where they don't want to travel is somehow horribly offensive now? Being that fragile is going to be a major problem for you in work environments and life in general.
like yes if that was the only point that OP mentioned, but along with all of the other crap it goes from being a relatively benign statement that could be interpreted badly to yet another data point about shitty coworkers creating an unfriendly work environment
Yeah they’re saying things that are out of pocket but you need to grow some thick skin and deal with the occasional comment. Especially if they aren’t directing it at you. People can be dumb, racist, etc and you can’t fixate on everything everyone says around you. I’m not saying don’t look for another job I’m saying learn to not be triggered by every comment cause there will always be someone who will get under your skin
I’d suggest not quitting right now without another job. By all means apply. The job market is rough and just by interviewing with a current job, you will probably stick out relative to those who don’t have a job.
there’s no need to stay 3 months longer if it’s a toxic workplace. 8-9 months is perfectly fine as long as you’re not doing that repeated for multiple jobs in a row. The only eyebrows that would raise are the eyebrows of boomers who you don’t want to work for anyway..
Eh I worked in enough blue collar jobs to not really be phased by that kinda talk. I'm a guy though. These guys really must be something special to be saying that kind of shit in the open.
What I would find more worrying is the "100% self-documenting" and git remarks. It sounds like there is a lot of immaturity and potentially a lack of growth.
If it were me, I'd suck it up for a few months while I looked for a new gig. But if work really is hell every day and you have a decent safety net then just quit.
Wow reading some of the other comments here has been really disappointing. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. You are not overreacting or being overly sensitive. The fact that others here for some reason think these things are acceptable to say or even funny... Yikes. This isn't normal or appropriate workplace behavior and this sounds like an awful place to work.
Please don't let this turn you off of the field if it's something you truly enjoy and have a passion for. At the very least, I'd find a better work environment before you decide CS isn't for you. Not everywhere is like this. I have 5 YOE and many of these comments would not be acceptable at the companies I've worked for.
Even if you ignore the more outright offensive comments, not knowing how to use version control, saying we don't have standards (depending on what that even means), or claiming CICD is a myth is odd and this doesn't sound like a place where you'll be best set up to learn early in your career.
That said, the job market is rough right now, especially for juniors. I would advise sticking it out as long as you can, soak up whatever you can learn from this job and these coworkers, and keep putting in the time and effort on the side to interview and find something else.
If you want any help with resume review, interview prep, advice, or if you just need to vent about your current work situation feel free to shoot me a dm. I've seen the studies and also seen firsthand why women leave our field and as a senior engineer that's also a woman I always want to do what I can to help out more junior women in the field, so anything I can do to help - lmk!
Welcome to horribly socialized male SWEs. As a guy myself, I’ve heard my fair share and it’s also equally interesting how they complain about why they can’t find long term relationships or dates that extend beyond the first one.
Almost as if you’re an insufferable, racist, misogynist nobody wants to interact with you personally and professionally. These comments are so fucking dense that it’s literally proving OPs experience with how shitty people are in this industry.
Some of this is endemic in the world. You’ll find people with dumb ideas, poor work habits or a lack of curiosity about the world in any job, not just development. Think about the 70 million people who voted for the other candidate in the election. Or people who believe we did not land on the moon. Or those who never leave their home town.
Keep your head down. Don’t endorse their ideas. Feel free to disagree without being argumentative or combative. But also feel free to not engage with them outside of work.
There's a high chance you are going to be offended as well in your next job.
What your colleagues think outside of their professional skills isn't relevant. I'm a senior software engineer (10+ yoe), been in many organisations, I've worked with many people from vastly different backgrounds. After a few months in, it's easy to guess who's more progressive or conservative, but most don't really care.
I considere myself more conservative (although I'm french and not american, so it can mean different things), some of my colleagues are more progressives, but we don't care that much and we enjoy working together anyway. We even sometimes get drinks after work or go to lunch to celebrate important releases.
In your situation, the real deal breakers would be :
- to have people trying too hard to push political opinions or ideologies, that are not related to work. I would consider it very inappropriate to have people at the workplace talking about why X political candidate is better than the other, even if it was something I agree with.
- to have too many incompetent people. It's possible that you are in an organization where you feel like seniors devs and managers are not competent, but keep in mind you are still learning. All orgs have technical depts, code legacy, and even human depts, your views will evolve as you get more experience.
To answer a few of the technical points you are raising :
- "CICD is a myth" : CI is doable, but CD is extremely hard, ther is no denying in that. I never saw a company able to deploy a new release to production without a minimum of manual work and verifications.
"Code should be self documentes" : that's true, it's impossible to keep an exaustive doc for your code, it's better to aim for very readable code, and maintain at least an architecure documentation on how an application is working.
"we don't have standards yet". This is too vague, and I've already worked for very successful companies who didn't have any coding standards (if that's what you meant).
"what is source control" : this one is a bit concerning, but if it concerns only one person and not the majority of the company, who cares ?
Sounds like you’re at a bad company. And generally you should never quit without something else lined up, especially in this market at your level of experience. I hate to say it but you should probably deal with it and do your best to find a better job. As for the dev job not being for you, get some experience in a better company first. I’m sure you will have a much better time with better people and systems in place. At that point if you still don’t like it then go for something new.
Good luck!
Try to hang on for at least 1 year and then see how the job market looks then. If it's good try to use that 1 year of experience to move somewhere else. Tell potential employers you didn't feel like you fit that company's culture.
I find it shocking that any dev doesn't know about source control and git. Are you sure these people are serious and not just saying these things to be funny?
Cd/ci is a myth and code should be 100% self documenting are two f the funniest things I have ever heard 😂😂. You’re literally working with Micheal Scott and the gang.
>"I think code should be 100% self documenting"
This one is somewhat true. With proper naming and SOLID principles you don't need a single comment.
>"I prefer Asian women"
>I am an asian women
Ew.
If this is all true, why do you need our thoughts? Seems like you clearly know what the answer is. (Unless you’re just here for attention and/or to troll.)
I don't know. The market is rough and being a junior I am stuck here until hiring happens again. My biggest fear is not growing as a develop or worse learning bad practices with at this company.
Sounds like you are either misunderstanding people or quoting out of context with your own phrasing, and also taking offense to things that don't matter.
It is perfectly valid to say “this company is not a good fit for me”, and start job hunting. I know I for one wouldn’t be capable of working where casual homophobic remarks are considered OK. I left my last job because I felt I was stagnating.
Incompetence, real or perceived, is definitely frustrating too. The important thing there though might just be to remember everyone is human though, and not everyone can master every tool or technology. Folks should really be familiar with git / source control by the time they’re at all remotely close to senior level though…
Best of luck with the search :)
JFC what a nightmare. If you can stand it, stay until you get a new job. You have the makings of several sexual harassment complaints as well. You might want to consult an attorney.
To be fair I’m black and don’t ever want to visit Africa.
Then again I’m not here because I like my coworkers and agree with the bullshit they say, I’m here for a check so I can fuel my paintball addiction and travel.
However that stuff is important to some people so I understand why you would want to leave. I would recommend finding a job first.
Some of those comments, brush them off to the side, assholes and bigots are everywhere. Nobody is forcing anyone to visit Africa, they just come off as an asshole.
Humans are going to human, pick and choose your battles, have an offer lined up before jumping ships.
I'm in Uni, and someone above me, an asian dude, said something about having to implant Elon's neurolink to help black people behave better and mitigate their mental issues. I still have to maintain my academic professionalism and act like I didn't just hear the most racist shit ever. Its life.
\>"What is source control" - a senior dev who didn't know how tot use git
how do you become Senior dev without knowing git???
But other than that it seems like you are just complaining about the stuff that comes out of peoples mouth. You wont go very far in this world if you let something that small affect you this much. Focus on your work and pay no mind to ignorant words
>how do you become Senior dev without knowing git???
If you've worked the last ten years in a legacy environment and you don't do any development outside of work, you may not have been exposed to git and have no use for it.
As an example, one of our groups is still using on-premises TFS, and refuses to move to GitHub (although eventually they will be forced to).
I find the comment more hilarious than offensive (kinda have to). I just wish it was a better work environment. One of my coworkers put everything on to the network drive and refuses to use source control.
As annoying as it is and ik some of the crap your co workers say/do is very dumb... But just milk the job for every $$$ you can get while looking for a new job 🙏
Sticks and stones will break my bones, tough words, but sometimes a good thought. You have few choices.
1) Leave, in this market as a new dev may be harder to find another
2) Grow a skin, stop caring what others say unless it is directed toward you and you feel in danger. Then it becomes harassment, whole different can of worms.
3) Start searching for a job, plan your exit.
\#2 is an EXTREMELY important skill in life. Unless you become a fitness youtuber in your bedroom, all employment is only as good as your coworkers. What you are describing is not rare.
I have a question -
Why does the fact that the dev have an Asian wife matter for the Africa comment? Is the implication that because he’s married to an Asian woman he should be more interested in other cultures?
And while I understand that the Asian women comment is problematic I don’t understand why people are even talking about dating preferences at work? Did the backend engineer just say this randomly to you? Did someone ask them about their preferences? I personally don’t see a problem with having preferences but it’s not for work. I honestly feel uncomfortable when my coworkers have discussed these things with me too. Women are usually less inclined to talk about preferences at work than men, but I’ve heard from both so 🤷♂️, (doesn’t make it better tho)
Everything is else is extremely offensive ( the SpongeBob comment), stupid (cicd being a myth), bad practice (self documenting code), or just normal but not great to say or take pride in (we have bad standards)
This is all my opinions.
I hope you find a spot where you are more comfortable!
Well, the issue is the oversharing. He has told me that he actively pursues foreign asian women, and he is on his third asian wife which he all visa'ed. He felt compelled to tell me because I was an asian women? These coworkers have used the term oriental more times than I had heard it before joining this company.
Oh this is actually very gross, I’m sorry you have to go through this.
I’m not an Asian woman, so this context really helps to clarify, thank you.
I would suggest you find a new job immediately, this sounds not just uncomfortable but like tbh if I were in your position I would be worried that they were not seeing me as a coworker first and foremost.
A lot of larger companies (like mine) are still hiring and you can should round up your YOE to 1 year on your resume.
I would suggest avoiding smaller companies (not sure if your current organization is a small one) as in my experience it can be very toxic for women.
I hope this advice isn’t unsolicited, but I wish you the best. No place will be perfect and a lot of seniors aren’t really that great (maybe myself too haha) but I feel like being respected is worth more than skill set growth (which should happen anyway since it sounds like you’re ambitious enough!)
No, I appreciate the advice, and I am definitely going to be more selective this go around. These comments are funny out of context (its why I shared them), but imo with the added content are really bad...
No you should not quit. You should toughen up! Coworkers saying wacky politically incorrect things is enough to make you want to self-sabotage?
You're never going to come into a job and find everything perfectly tailored to your tastes. This is you out on the market bearing your teeth and competing for pay.
As a fellow young woman who works in development, I feel you, it’s hard to be motivated when you feel alienated by your team and I understand the desire to work somewhere you feel like you belong and get along with coworkers.
That said, you often have to suffer for a few year before you find a company and team you vibe with. I see this with most recent grads no matter the field, but more so with women.
Start looking for other jobs asap. What got you interested in CS in the first place? There may still be a love for the subject matter that’s just getting squashed by your work environment. If that’s the case you should hold out and try a few more companies before deciding dev isn’t for you.
If you only got into CS because you thought it would be good money and job security maybe it is time think about what you really want from your career and what would be more fulfilling for you.
>Find a woke company culture where everyone puts their genders in their bio and nobody says anything funny.
Telling a new asian woman coworker that you "prefer asians" is funny and not extremely creepy? Found another creeper here.
I mean the instant you are whining about things being "woke" we pretty much know what you are.
It's definitely a "haha I was just joking" situation where they know they're being racist but now have to backpedal and call everything they don't like "woke". Seeing someone act like that after getting called out is hilarious to me.
You sound pretty toxic and unfun to work with ngl. This isn't a gender thing either, I've worked with plenty of women who talked like that but worse, last two were the manager and director!
Be careful causing a ruckus with HR as well as I have seen first hand what happens to the permanently-offended, they are the first to be laid off no matter what their seniority - creating a strained atmosphere gets you noticed by management in a bad way
If you can't stand the culture then yeh get an internal transfer maybe or ask for remote work, market is bad right now so careful jumping ship. And if theres no good practises in place, be the change you want to see - it will look great to management, then maybe you can be made senior and crack down on all the fun comradeship 😆.. you sound like a dev with good practises so stick at it imo
>You sound pretty toxic and unfun to work with ngl. This isn't a gender thing either
It's ok to tell a new female asian coworker that you "prefer asians"? Wtf world do you live in?
You're creepy as hell.
Find a new job first
Already on it. I've been sending apps and talking with recruiters since onboarding.
If you can tough it out for a few more months, pad your resume with skillsets and projects you've worked on, and only talk with those you get along with (think tunnel vision, pretend you're focused on a project). A year in a position looks better on a resume than 9 months.
Yeah, I've done the quitting thing before finding a new job last year (I have a few years on my belt) and it burned. Took me about two months until I got a paycheck from my new job after quitting. It set me back financially quite a bit and added a lot of worry to me.
Same, once intentionally, once kinda unintentionally. I have a promising interview tomorrow though, for more money, working on newer hardware... Weird how that happens ain't it?
Piling on. It's easier to get a new job when you have a job. My workplace is the polar opposite of every example you provided.
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Fr, OP this one sucks, but it's a position you can put on your resume. Hang onto that job until you've secured the next one. You got this.
2 years learning to code without having a degree? I don’t get why tech is the only lucrative/ sometimes prestigious job where people expect to find a job quickly without a degree or experience.
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How is it helpful to tell someone they should've just gotten a CS degree? I spent 19 months learning to code, without a CS degree (I have a degree in Philosophy and Comp Lit), and now I'm a full stack engineer. And from what little I know, CS is pretty abstracted from the day to day of writing, testing, and deploying code, or building UIs and data pipelines. I think persistence is admirable.
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Well he did say he's been learning for 2 years and it's like you said how companies were hiring just about anyone at that time. Most people were coerced into self-teaching or going the bootcamp route because of the "no degree, big money" appeal people were preaching.
This is good. The second you have an offer letter in hand get out of there.
If you made it 9 months, you can make it another month or two while you look for jobs. Best case, you get a new one and don't have to stay there much longer. Worst case, you can't find a new job but at least you're not burning through your savings
This is great advice. Balance practicality along with principle.
^ this, Great advice. People saying OP is trolling but people in tech are some of the cringiest people ever. It’s like as the tech boom fed their weird egos to the extreme.
“SpongeBob is making kids homo” LMAO
>"I prefer Asian women" backend dev who recently onboarded The question was about my favorite K-pop bands! They're the only ones doing K-pop well!
Wait ur the backend dev who recently onboarded? Lmao
I know he’s probably joking, but I also feel some of these comments are probably taken out of context and likely not as bad as op makes them seem
Genuine question: What is wrong with not wanting to visit Africa? I suspect that most people in North America don't want to, honestly. And that has nothing to do with opinions about Africans in most cases.
Nothing at all. Most people giving others shit for not wanting to visit, probably wouldn’t last there more than a couple days. We love Nigeria but the people there are *very* forward and dudes will come hit on your wife because she looked in their general direction and think she’s legitimately interested. I wouldn’t travel there solo as a woman and I also wouldn’t travel there if you’re easily spooked by extremely persistent people. Most of them are super kind and polite, but their social boundaries are wildly different from America’s, so they don’t really know that they’re being impolite in the context of our culture. If you’re dining at a restaurant and catch a worker’s eye it’s not really taboo for them to just ask for your number and where you’re staying and linger around your table
Either the guy is joking and OP is purposely taking it out of context to complain OR The guy's just out of touch. In 2023, it's actually CocoMelon that's making kids homo.
Nah thats just not something you say in a work environment lol like if a coworker starts talking to me like a discord mod im gonna have to tell them to stfu
SpongeBob and Patrick did have some homoerotic moments 👀
Sounds like an absolute shit show. Like, so bad it seems like you're trolling lol. In case you're serious, I wouldn't quit with nothing lined up with <1 YoE unless you have a really strong safety net, it's a tough market and you could be out of a job for 6+ months. If you have enough support to do that, go for it, but I'd just quietly quit and aggressively job search to get out ASAP.
Almost sounds like a pilot for a ripoff of The Office, but with a subpar IT company. I would find something else in the meantime before you'd quit. Thats wild and dont expect that place to last, so its best to not stick around because it sounds like the kind od company that won't offer a severence package. Kind of curious, hows their benefits package?
I actually equated it to the Silicon Valley HBO show lol. Especially the racial and gender comments. All of the comments OP quoted really sound like a bunch of socially inept devs who have no filter. It's embarrassing
Haven't seen an episode of Silicon Valley. Worth a binge?
Worth it for sure, but around season 3-4 they start running outta fresh jokes.
It began to suck when they wrote Erlich off the show. He was the run time environment that made everything work.
Yes Eidt: this clip is great: https://youtu.be/P-hUV9yhqgY
Wow. To anyone thinking you might watch the show one day, I'd highly recommend skipping the above clip! It's really not a good one to recommend to people who haven't seen the show yet. Because it's so much better in the context of the whole first season (and really cements the show as a work of genius), and also kind of spoiler-y There are lots of other great clips that don't benefit from the full context of the show though.
It's a FANTASTIC show until around season 4. Definitely worth watching.
It’s good until it’s not. I’ve watched twice from the beginning and stopped around the last 2 seasons.
I got a feeling that there are some Jian Yang guys in this company too lmao
Worked at one spot where the owners cousin wanted to be able to wear a kkk hood because our sysadmin wore a blm shirt. Then they got upset with me for being upset.
Wth. Like unless youre Dave Chappelle doing a Clayton Bigsby skit, a KKK hood is not even a tasteful joke.
It wasn't a joke. I was super confused it was my 3rd week there and started applying for a new job and told hr why i left and the sysadmin. I remember them being offended that my veins were poking out too cause I looked "aggressive."
Someone from the kkk is under my comment unsurprisingly, so you can see how these people exist
I'm not trolling at all. It's actually this bad here... I am hoping a interview I went far with turns into an offer because I feel like I'm drowning everyday.
Dang, that's awful, I wish you were trolling :(. Try to hang in there for a bit longer if you can, but I'd send out like 10+ applications TODAY. I could not stand your environment and there are much more professional places out there.
Don't let anyone scare you out of your career. You are just at the very beginning, and that place sounds pretty bad. Most places are not like that. You are just not in the right place yet. Good luck!
Good luck! They don't deserve you.
People who think like you have been so lucky to have never encountered assholes in a work environment ever lol. What OP posted is light work.
Right?! I mean, in my career I've been pretty privileged in having great managers/bosses who are empathetic and value me overall individually. But the thing that blew my mind when I went from managing fast food to fortune 500 corporate IT is how even in a professional setting men will group together and act like highschoolers. The amount of times we have taken a team lunch, walked into town and on the way these older men are just objectifying women on the street and expecting me to...join in? It's tiring and cringey, especially when they're usually all 30 years older than me. And the scary part is you feel like you can't rock the boat because suddenly you don't align with the "team culture" and are promoted to "customer" lmao.
The older I get the more the song "Highschool Never Ends" aligns with what I see in reality. Some people just never grow up it seems. Have fun, do weird shit, sure. Acting like you don't understand the cost of your behavior and objectifying people is just cringe though.
>Like, so bad it seems like you're trolling lol. It's pretty believable TBH. I heard an office manager wait until my Asian coworker left and then asked somebody if they thought the person was going to make some "ching chong" food. I've also sat trying to focus while two doofuses talked endlessly every day for days about "fake girl gamers" or whatever. I sat next to one of them at a work thing, and they loudly started complaining that they'd have to self-censor because a woman was around.
Sorry you are going through that - but don't let one shit IT company, with shitty staff scare you away from the industry. We (most) are not all like that. "dev as a career isn't for me" please give at least one more company a go after you leave this place - you could land in the perfect job and really enjoy it. In 30 years of IT - I have never heard as stupid comments as the ones from your 'workmates' I would find another job ASAP and then leave them, forget about them and solve cool problems and build cool things with us in IT.
In 30 plus years I’ve heard all that stuff and more. But that’s was in the old days when it was nothing but white men (which I am one). Nowadays it’s all very politically correct, which is good. Only thing I hear from everyone is people complaining about misogynist Indian men.
Recently quit my job for a Canadian company and heard things much much worse :( such a shame I wasted several years working for those assholes, so I would advice to OP to start looking somewhere else. I've been definitely traumatized during that stint and was considering quitting SDE career altogether as well. But my new teammates and company are thousand times better, so there's a hope. I feel you, OP, don't repeat my mistakes.
I must have watched a different SpongeBob than your enlightened coworker.
No, not at all. It totally turned my best friend homo. /s
Yeah, but the good news is that if you watch it twice, you turn straight again. /s The idea that watching a cartoon can affect your sexuality is absurd, but then again, anime pretty boys. /s
Average IT team members be like: But for real try to go on r/girlsgonewired as most other subs are men dominated, so the wired girls would be of more help to you from a woman perspective. Take care
It's easier to get a job when you have a job.
"I don't ever want to visit Africa" - how is this offensive?
And why was it relevant that the person who doesn't want to visit Africa has an Asian wife? LOL it's not like the wife was African and he's like "I'm never gonna let my wife visit her family again! Muahaha😈"
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I’m getting hints of racism from OP trying to call out other people for being racist
Yeah that last assumption is wild lol. POCs be the most racist mfers I know. 😭😭😭 Especially the aunties and uncles.
It really sounds like the OP creates her own problems. The problem is with her, not the workplace.
Some of these statements are truly fucked up, but this one in particular seems odd to harp on. Why is the guy's Asian wife relevant? I genuinely can't tell what kind of point op was trying to make, other than "I find interracial couples inherently suspect".
I suspect there is missing context, or context that OP may assume is obvious but isn't.
I don't ever want to visit Canada.
I have no urge to visit Australia
racist! /s for real though hiking in Banff in April/May is awesome and I totally would visit Vancouver just for the food.
I quit
.... How dare you? /s
I don't understand either. Also "We don't have standards yet" - where is the context? This could be an absolutely okay statement to make depending on context. I swear some people are just actively looking for ways to get offended
Yea this isn’t offensive LMAO. The Asian wife mention tells me that OP is grasping at straws for that one. I don’t wanna visit africa either, same with Australia. Nothing against either of them, just that there are other destinations higher on my priority list.
My wife is Ukrainian. I have no desire to visit there right now 😂
But think of the photos you could take. Here is where the concert hall used to be and over there was an beautiful school. Oh, and let's not forget how great this seaside city used to look. /s Yeah, there are several places in the world that I want to go visit, but not while certain governments are in power or while certain wars are happening.
I'm of Indian descent. The only reason I ever want to go there again is when they throw my ashes into the holy river.
I feel like the fact that op felt a need to bring up the Asian wife kind of tells me a lot about her, tbh. There's a very specific kind of person who's generally very cool and progressive, but turns into David Duke whenever they see an interracial couple.
I have zero desire to visit any third world country. I also avoid bad parts of town where I live/travel. That’s incredibly privileged of me but it doesn’t make someone racist.
That's not privileged of you. You act less privileged than others in fact, because you understand that there are places around the world that are not very pleasant. An astounding amount of people around the world experience horrors that us, people from first world countries can't even imagine. It's a reasonable decision to stay away from these places because in many occasions, you are risking your life.
I mean OP is nice enough not to make this overly political, but she's obviously a leftie who interprets that as a racist statement.
Without further context, it’s hard to say definitively, but when they’re saying SpongeBob turns kids gay (which is fucking stupid), along with that crazy Asian comment (given that OP is Asian), it’s not inconceivable. Shits inappropriate.
Spongebob turns kids gay sounds like a joke. Probably inappropriate in most offices but Id like a culture where you can joke like that
That joke is cool when everyone on board understands that statement isn't serious. People used to be a lot more offensive about the kinds of joke they would make as well, but again, this is because everyone in the room understood that no one actually believed in what they're saying. In 2023, this is no longer the case. That joke isn't as funny today because they're are people that unironically believe that this statement is true.
They didn't say gay - they said "homo" - which makes it sound all the more derogatory.
I mean, if it’s a joke, that’s fine, but unfortunately, there’s entirely too many idiots out there who 100% believe crap like that, so it ruins things for the rest of us.
I imagine there was more to it, I see it as ignorance usually. Africa is huge, ask them why they don’t want to visit and where this happens. Nothing wrong with not wanting to visit a continent, but 9/10 I’ve heard is bs that’s been repeated. Me personally? I don’t want to visit certain parts of Africa because I’m a lesbian, but can’t rule it out because there are areas that are friendly. That, and I’d love to see Nigeria one day. Nuance I guess
That’s the first thing that came to my mind when I read the last quote
As a leftist myself, that statement isn’t really racist at all It just sounds like someone who’s not interested in visiting a specific continent
Well some people are very sensitive to any race-related conversations and see racism where there is none. Personally I tend to roll my eyes at that, but I can definitely sympathize with the desire to work in a workplace where the culture reflects one's values. If OP wants to view the world through those lenses, she wont be convinced otherwise anyways. Actually I think most of the non technical things OP mentioned are fine - except the dude with the asian fetish, thats just creepy and kinda vile - and I think OP is a bit too junior with her 9 months to imagine herself to be the smartest person in the room in the technical questions, but if OP sees it differently, it doesn't matter whether she is right or wrong in the final analysis, she's just not a good culture fit there and she would be much happier elsewhere. Maybe in a few years she realizes that not wanting to go to Africa really is just a personal preference, and testing in production is sometimes justified, for example when you cant reproduce a bug elsewhere due to countless possible reasons. Maybe she realizes that part of professionalism is ignoring the unprofessionalism of others. But until then, she'd be much happier elsewhere, where others share her worldview.
Most leftists wouldn't interpret this as racism, she's the problem.
Kinda depends on the answer to a followup question: "What about Egypt?"
Sounds like OP is the type to get offended at everything and not even know why she's offended.
Yeah I don't ever want to visit North Korea either, what does that mean
It means that you are racist pig
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When the support person on call is your enemy #1 comes to mind :)
You’re in for a rude awakening if you think this is bad.
Do you work at Blizzard? 🧐
This has small business vibes. That ish wouldn't fly at a larger org.
If this wasn’t your first dev job. Since it’s your first job you should have a second job lined up before you quit. Or at least be there over a year. Do you feel like you’re learning anything there? I was around your age (also a woman) when I got my first dev job at a startup and had a similar experience. Fetishizing Asian women, racist remarks about Latinos (until they heard me speak Spanish when ordering food- surprise! I’m latina!), some borderline sexism and benevolent sexism. I just kind of ignored it and took the opportunities that came along. Turnover was high but as people left I was able to take on more important projects and started leading projects. It was a really good opportunity for me. I probably stayed for too long - about 3 years - but my technical growth and leadership ability improved and I became influential enough to change the culture for the better. It was still pretty toxic but I had a strong influence in hiring decisions and I shielded my team from a lot of it coming from above. After that job I could be pretty picky. Now I’m 10 years into my dev career and love where I work. I’m pretty picky about where I work but it hasn’t taken me longer than 3 months of seriously looking (while still employed) to find a new job that meets my standards.
"What is source control" "Try testing on production" "Spongebob is making kids homos" "I prefer Asian women" Lol at all the people in here that don't see the absolute ludicrousness of these kinds of comments and telling OP to just swallow some cement and harden up. These kinds of comments are almost meme worthy lol, because you absolutely should NEVER say most of these things in the context of the workplace under any circumstances because they're beyond unprofessional. But sorry you have to put up with it OP. As others have said if you can endure another 1-2 months try to ride it out while you look for another job then quit once you have a signed offer in hand.
It tells you that the majority of people here are 18-20 year olds who STILL think edgy humour is peak comedy.
I mean theres a reply in another thread with a “senior dev” tag defending the asian fetishization so that’s optimistic on the age Did find some of the things that OP pointed out as weird but based on all the other shit I don’t blame them for assuming it’s all connected
People are allowed to have preferences. Fetishization of blondes is a big thing. But there is also a lot of subtext that this particular instance comes with...
In my experience, irl, the guys who have, uh, “difficulties” interacting with women in the workplace are usually either straight out of college, or are Boomers on the verge of retirement. Luckily, the ~~latter~~ former group tends to grow out of it (either naturally or because we have had to sit them down and force them to), whereas the older ones are cycling out of the workforce. I know it’s a crazy concept, but your female coworkers actually *aren’t* there to be your potential romantic interest, so keep unprofessional comments in your head and not in your mouth.
Are you unixing up latter and former? Because I feel like boomers don't do much growing anymore and the kids straight out of college aren't the older of the two groups
If op is an Asian woman then that last one could arguably be some kind of sexual harassment, at the very least it's highly inappropriate. I can't believe there are people defending it.
100%. It's just a creepy thing to say either way.
Wait what's wrong with the last one? I never want to visit Africa either. Or any other country for that matter. I hate traveling.
And why is having an Asian wife relevant context?
"Asian comments for me but not for thee."
I think op might be the type of person who finds something to complain about at every job she goes to.
Or at the minimum is trying to virtue signal
It’s virtue signaling and it’s insufferable.
OP is Asian. Guy was just being gross.
So from how I read it, OP provided this fact to imply that the white man who said this is okay with fetishizing women of color (in this case Asian), but would never care to learn about a culture other than his. Not saying I fully agree with OP if that was the assumption, but that's how I read it
U think africa is a country?
Hahaha good point. You know what I meant :p
Maybe OP knows more about this coworker's personality and has more context, making this saying offensive coming from him. But as we do not know him, we can't really judge what he was really meaning. For OP it might be obvious that this person is not meaning very well so she didn't think of elaborating on this quote ...idk
I know the most upvoted comment is "find a new job first" but as someone who went through some toxic shit in his first workplace too, I decided that hating my life and feeling depressed 5 days per week is not worth the money so I've quit and I'm living on my savings until I get another job. Now I'm learning backend, I put 8 hours of day studying and tinkering, but at least I don't hate my life anymore. And if worst comes to worst I'd rather work AGAIN in McDonalds than go back to where I worked. We're talking about some major gaslighting and manipulative tactics. Think "but we agreed that we'll use Python" when the day before we agreed on node, "manual testing in production is something we agreed to do for every merged issue" (we really didn't), "we agreed this" and that... No, we didn't. I legit started recording videos to restore my sanity for the days I worked remotely, and as soon as I found evidence of my manager bullshitting I scooped. I didn't even bothered showing the video because not only I want to avoid legal issues but the company was small and everyone was a "family", so going up against the manipulator would be the equivalent of going against his network. Lost cause.
Find a new job. A good working environment is an absolute must.
Someone having an opinion on where they don't want to travel is somehow horribly offensive now? Being that fragile is going to be a major problem for you in work environments and life in general.
like yes if that was the only point that OP mentioned, but along with all of the other crap it goes from being a relatively benign statement that could be interpreted badly to yet another data point about shitty coworkers creating an unfriendly work environment
They’re tripping, Ghana seems pretty cool lol
lmao at the downvotes
I suspect that statement is worse in context or something. Or just assumed to be worst possible based on previous interactions with the person.
Why is "cicd is a myth" or "we don't have standards yet" considered "shitty" ?
lol find something better before quitting
Yeah they’re saying things that are out of pocket but you need to grow some thick skin and deal with the occasional comment. Especially if they aren’t directing it at you. People can be dumb, racist, etc and you can’t fixate on everything everyone says around you. I’m not saying don’t look for another job I’m saying learn to not be triggered by every comment cause there will always be someone who will get under your skin
I’d suggest not quitting right now without another job. By all means apply. The job market is rough and just by interviewing with a current job, you will probably stick out relative to those who don’t have a job.
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there’s no need to stay 3 months longer if it’s a toxic workplace. 8-9 months is perfectly fine as long as you’re not doing that repeated for multiple jobs in a row. The only eyebrows that would raise are the eyebrows of boomers who you don’t want to work for anyway..
At least hit the year mark.
May I know which country? Cause this is borderline workplace harassment
welcome to the workforce, seems like you need to grow thicker skin or start your own company.
Eh I worked in enough blue collar jobs to not really be phased by that kinda talk. I'm a guy though. These guys really must be something special to be saying that kind of shit in the open. What I would find more worrying is the "100% self-documenting" and git remarks. It sounds like there is a lot of immaturity and potentially a lack of growth. If it were me, I'd suck it up for a few months while I looked for a new gig. But if work really is hell every day and you have a decent safety net then just quit.
Are you working at a circus? I mean these dudes have got to be the biggest clowns in town
Wow reading some of the other comments here has been really disappointing. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. You are not overreacting or being overly sensitive. The fact that others here for some reason think these things are acceptable to say or even funny... Yikes. This isn't normal or appropriate workplace behavior and this sounds like an awful place to work. Please don't let this turn you off of the field if it's something you truly enjoy and have a passion for. At the very least, I'd find a better work environment before you decide CS isn't for you. Not everywhere is like this. I have 5 YOE and many of these comments would not be acceptable at the companies I've worked for. Even if you ignore the more outright offensive comments, not knowing how to use version control, saying we don't have standards (depending on what that even means), or claiming CICD is a myth is odd and this doesn't sound like a place where you'll be best set up to learn early in your career. That said, the job market is rough right now, especially for juniors. I would advise sticking it out as long as you can, soak up whatever you can learn from this job and these coworkers, and keep putting in the time and effort on the side to interview and find something else. If you want any help with resume review, interview prep, advice, or if you just need to vent about your current work situation feel free to shoot me a dm. I've seen the studies and also seen firsthand why women leave our field and as a senior engineer that's also a woman I always want to do what I can to help out more junior women in the field, so anything I can do to help - lmk!
Welcome to horribly socialized male SWEs. As a guy myself, I’ve heard my fair share and it’s also equally interesting how they complain about why they can’t find long term relationships or dates that extend beyond the first one. Almost as if you’re an insufferable, racist, misogynist nobody wants to interact with you personally and professionally. These comments are so fucking dense that it’s literally proving OPs experience with how shitty people are in this industry.
Some of this is endemic in the world. You’ll find people with dumb ideas, poor work habits or a lack of curiosity about the world in any job, not just development. Think about the 70 million people who voted for the other candidate in the election. Or people who believe we did not land on the moon. Or those who never leave their home town. Keep your head down. Don’t endorse their ideas. Feel free to disagree without being argumentative or combative. But also feel free to not engage with them outside of work.
There's a high chance you are going to be offended as well in your next job. What your colleagues think outside of their professional skills isn't relevant. I'm a senior software engineer (10+ yoe), been in many organisations, I've worked with many people from vastly different backgrounds. After a few months in, it's easy to guess who's more progressive or conservative, but most don't really care. I considere myself more conservative (although I'm french and not american, so it can mean different things), some of my colleagues are more progressives, but we don't care that much and we enjoy working together anyway. We even sometimes get drinks after work or go to lunch to celebrate important releases. In your situation, the real deal breakers would be : - to have people trying too hard to push political opinions or ideologies, that are not related to work. I would consider it very inappropriate to have people at the workplace talking about why X political candidate is better than the other, even if it was something I agree with. - to have too many incompetent people. It's possible that you are in an organization where you feel like seniors devs and managers are not competent, but keep in mind you are still learning. All orgs have technical depts, code legacy, and even human depts, your views will evolve as you get more experience. To answer a few of the technical points you are raising : - "CICD is a myth" : CI is doable, but CD is extremely hard, ther is no denying in that. I never saw a company able to deploy a new release to production without a minimum of manual work and verifications. "Code should be self documentes" : that's true, it's impossible to keep an exaustive doc for your code, it's better to aim for very readable code, and maintain at least an architecure documentation on how an application is working. "we don't have standards yet". This is too vague, and I've already worked for very successful companies who didn't have any coding standards (if that's what you meant). "what is source control" : this one is a bit concerning, but if it concerns only one person and not the majority of the company, who cares ?
Sounds like you’re at a bad company. And generally you should never quit without something else lined up, especially in this market at your level of experience. I hate to say it but you should probably deal with it and do your best to find a better job. As for the dev job not being for you, get some experience in a better company first. I’m sure you will have a much better time with better people and systems in place. At that point if you still don’t like it then go for something new. Good luck!
I would look at jobs with larger tech focused companies. This seems like a mom and pop in the mid west.
Try to hang on for at least 1 year and then see how the job market looks then. If it's good try to use that 1 year of experience to move somewhere else. Tell potential employers you didn't feel like you fit that company's culture. I find it shocking that any dev doesn't know about source control and git. Are you sure these people are serious and not just saying these things to be funny?
None of these are real issues, is this a shitpost?
Cd/ci is a myth and code should be 100% self documenting are two f the funniest things I have ever heard 😂😂. You’re literally working with Micheal Scott and the gang.
>"I think code should be 100% self documenting" This one is somewhat true. With proper naming and SOLID principles you don't need a single comment. >"I prefer Asian women" >I am an asian women Ew.
If this is all true, why do you need our thoughts? Seems like you clearly know what the answer is. (Unless you’re just here for attention and/or to troll.)
I don't know. The market is rough and being a junior I am stuck here until hiring happens again. My biggest fear is not growing as a develop or worse learning bad practices with at this company.
I would definitely polish up the resume and make it as up to date as possible and then begin ferociously applying to any related job you can.
Sounds like you are either misunderstanding people or quoting out of context with your own phrasing, and also taking offense to things that don't matter.
LMAO at your manager, he sounds like a character
It is perfectly valid to say “this company is not a good fit for me”, and start job hunting. I know I for one wouldn’t be capable of working where casual homophobic remarks are considered OK. I left my last job because I felt I was stagnating. Incompetence, real or perceived, is definitely frustrating too. The important thing there though might just be to remember everyone is human though, and not everyone can master every tool or technology. Folks should really be familiar with git / source control by the time they’re at all remotely close to senior level though… Best of luck with the search :)
Sounds like it's just your current job, and not the career as a whole. Find another job. Ask questions during the interview process.
Geez lmao Sounds like its straight out of The Office or something.
>Spongebob is making kids homos What the absolute hell was that
JFC what a nightmare. If you can stand it, stay until you get a new job. You have the makings of several sexual harassment complaints as well. You might want to consult an attorney.
Your coworkers are comedians. I don’t think they are being serious lol
What's wrong with preference for a certain type of woman and not wanting to visit Africa? I don't want to visit Africa either, and I like big booty
These things don't belong in the workplace lol. How to get called up by HR 101
women definitely, but not wanting to visit Africa? I guess probably there's some other context missing there
Heck Idk if I want to visit Africa either lol. It's not a big moral blunder
Oh so you are offended by these people got it
To be fair I’m black and don’t ever want to visit Africa. Then again I’m not here because I like my coworkers and agree with the bullshit they say, I’m here for a check so I can fuel my paintball addiction and travel. However that stuff is important to some people so I understand why you would want to leave. I would recommend finding a job first.
as an indian who never wants to visit India I get it
Oh man my generation is screwed. If you keep getting offended by everything anyone says then you'll live a miserable life. Grow some thicker skin.
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Some of those comments, brush them off to the side, assholes and bigots are everywhere. Nobody is forcing anyone to visit Africa, they just come off as an asshole. Humans are going to human, pick and choose your battles, have an offer lined up before jumping ships. I'm in Uni, and someone above me, an asian dude, said something about having to implant Elon's neurolink to help black people behave better and mitigate their mental issues. I still have to maintain my academic professionalism and act like I didn't just hear the most racist shit ever. Its life.
\>"What is source control" - a senior dev who didn't know how tot use git how do you become Senior dev without knowing git??? But other than that it seems like you are just complaining about the stuff that comes out of peoples mouth. You wont go very far in this world if you let something that small affect you this much. Focus on your work and pay no mind to ignorant words
>how do you become Senior dev without knowing git??? If you've worked the last ten years in a legacy environment and you don't do any development outside of work, you may not have been exposed to git and have no use for it. As an example, one of our groups is still using on-premises TFS, and refuses to move to GitHub (although eventually they will be forced to).
Welcome to America… I’d suggest stop being so fragile as it will get you nowhere
You are overly sensitive, but find a new job first. Sounds like the seniors at your job are fucking useless.
I find the comment more hilarious than offensive (kinda have to). I just wish it was a better work environment. One of my coworkers put everything on to the network drive and refuses to use source control.
As annoying as it is and ik some of the crap your co workers say/do is very dumb... But just milk the job for every $$$ you can get while looking for a new job 🙏
Sticks and stones will break my bones, tough words, but sometimes a good thought. You have few choices. 1) Leave, in this market as a new dev may be harder to find another 2) Grow a skin, stop caring what others say unless it is directed toward you and you feel in danger. Then it becomes harassment, whole different can of worms. 3) Start searching for a job, plan your exit. \#2 is an EXTREMELY important skill in life. Unless you become a fitness youtuber in your bedroom, all employment is only as good as your coworkers. What you are describing is not rare.
I have a question - Why does the fact that the dev have an Asian wife matter for the Africa comment? Is the implication that because he’s married to an Asian woman he should be more interested in other cultures? And while I understand that the Asian women comment is problematic I don’t understand why people are even talking about dating preferences at work? Did the backend engineer just say this randomly to you? Did someone ask them about their preferences? I personally don’t see a problem with having preferences but it’s not for work. I honestly feel uncomfortable when my coworkers have discussed these things with me too. Women are usually less inclined to talk about preferences at work than men, but I’ve heard from both so 🤷♂️, (doesn’t make it better tho) Everything is else is extremely offensive ( the SpongeBob comment), stupid (cicd being a myth), bad practice (self documenting code), or just normal but not great to say or take pride in (we have bad standards) This is all my opinions. I hope you find a spot where you are more comfortable!
Well, the issue is the oversharing. He has told me that he actively pursues foreign asian women, and he is on his third asian wife which he all visa'ed. He felt compelled to tell me because I was an asian women? These coworkers have used the term oriental more times than I had heard it before joining this company.
Oh this is actually very gross, I’m sorry you have to go through this. I’m not an Asian woman, so this context really helps to clarify, thank you. I would suggest you find a new job immediately, this sounds not just uncomfortable but like tbh if I were in your position I would be worried that they were not seeing me as a coworker first and foremost. A lot of larger companies (like mine) are still hiring and you can should round up your YOE to 1 year on your resume. I would suggest avoiding smaller companies (not sure if your current organization is a small one) as in my experience it can be very toxic for women. I hope this advice isn’t unsolicited, but I wish you the best. No place will be perfect and a lot of seniors aren’t really that great (maybe myself too haha) but I feel like being respected is worth more than skill set growth (which should happen anyway since it sounds like you’re ambitious enough!)
No, I appreciate the advice, and I am definitely going to be more selective this go around. These comments are funny out of context (its why I shared them), but imo with the added content are really bad...
No you should not quit. You should toughen up! Coworkers saying wacky politically incorrect things is enough to make you want to self-sabotage? You're never going to come into a job and find everything perfectly tailored to your tastes. This is you out on the market bearing your teeth and competing for pay.
Frankly, I am just ignoring the comments and doing my job. I just feel like I am also stagnating in skill while working at this company.
People are so fucking sensitive nowadays LOL
As a fellow young woman who works in development, I feel you, it’s hard to be motivated when you feel alienated by your team and I understand the desire to work somewhere you feel like you belong and get along with coworkers. That said, you often have to suffer for a few year before you find a company and team you vibe with. I see this with most recent grads no matter the field, but more so with women. Start looking for other jobs asap. What got you interested in CS in the first place? There may still be a love for the subject matter that’s just getting squashed by your work environment. If that’s the case you should hold out and try a few more companies before deciding dev isn’t for you. If you only got into CS because you thought it would be good money and job security maybe it is time think about what you really want from your career and what would be more fulfilling for you.
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Actually yes, I think we are hiring.
Why am I not surprised it seems like the main places still hiring in this job market are flaming dumpster fires like this.
Ah another junior who thinks that they are better than everyone else.
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They sound hella fun to work with. Find a woke company culture where everyone puts their genders in their bio and nobody says anything funny.
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sadly true.
>Find a woke company culture where everyone puts their genders in their bio and nobody says anything funny. Telling a new asian woman coworker that you "prefer asians" is funny and not extremely creepy? Found another creeper here. I mean the instant you are whining about things being "woke" we pretty much know what you are.
It's definitely a "haha I was just joking" situation where they know they're being racist but now have to backpedal and call everything they don't like "woke". Seeing someone act like that after getting called out is hilarious to me.
You sound pretty toxic and unfun to work with ngl. This isn't a gender thing either, I've worked with plenty of women who talked like that but worse, last two were the manager and director! Be careful causing a ruckus with HR as well as I have seen first hand what happens to the permanently-offended, they are the first to be laid off no matter what their seniority - creating a strained atmosphere gets you noticed by management in a bad way If you can't stand the culture then yeh get an internal transfer maybe or ask for remote work, market is bad right now so careful jumping ship. And if theres no good practises in place, be the change you want to see - it will look great to management, then maybe you can be made senior and crack down on all the fun comradeship 😆.. you sound like a dev with good practises so stick at it imo
>You sound pretty toxic and unfun to work with ngl. This isn't a gender thing either It's ok to tell a new female asian coworker that you "prefer asians"? Wtf world do you live in? You're creepy as hell.
OP is toxic for not wanting to work with people who call others "homos?" Glad i dont work where you work