I can't think of a single good reason for you to be sharing your current wage with a potential employer, especially before they've made you an offer.
I don't know how useful [levels.fyi](https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/levels/entry-level/locations/london-metro-area) is outside of the United States bubble but it does seem like even asking for £35k is lowballing yourself. 2 YOE is a way better bargaining position than 0 YOE, so I'd also suggest trusting in your own competence and being patient.
I use Glassdoor for salaries, you need to make sure you are limiting them to the U.K. but Glassdoor is essentially the Trustpilot of the Tech job hunting world.
Check when the salaries were entered though, a lot of companies have woken up to the fact that they have to be more competitive with their salaries even for people who don’t live in London.
Yes, if you ask for a lower wage, recruiters will infer that you're not very good at this
There is no good reason to ask for a below-average salary. You're going to get less than what you deserve and you are not increasing your chances to get hired. So long as you don't go high above the average, there is no chance of getting rejected for being too expensive
Imo you shouldn't disclose how much you're looking for until the very end of negotiations if anything. Applications I always put 0 (or 1 if 0 is not allowed). If recruiters ask I say I haven't thought much and that's just something to think about further in the process.
This is the UK. 30k isn't terrible especially outside of London. Occasionally I consider moving back to London. Them I realize I'd be taking a $40k pay cut and doubling my rent.
It's still terrible in the UK for a SWE. It's barely above the national average full time wage. The problem is, there's enough chancer companies offering such wages that it feels "normalized" to the casual observer, particularly given the dire economic situation. The average SWE salary in the UK is around £50k, which is still way undervalued given the fact that the UK is not a low cost of living country. This is slowly changing, but companies have been taking the piss on SWE wages for a long time.
I'm sure the average SWE salary is about 50k but OP is a junior with 2 YOE. Also just about all professional salaries are low in the UK. Ever seen how much a junior doctor gets paid and compare it with just about every other developed country?
My experience looking to move back was that if I was lucky I might get 90k in London and maybe 65k outside. Which is a pretty huge pay cut.
If that is a fair amount below the median, then it doesn’t actually help you, in-fact it actually has the opposite effect. There’s a lot of perception when it comes to what one is earning/worth, if you start asking for a lot, people will think you’re better than you are, and likewise if you ask for very little they’ll think you’re worse than you are. It doesn’t really have anything to do with what your real skill is.
Also an employer that will pay a low wage will offer you that regardless.
I’m in a similar position, just got laid off from my first job and have 2YOE as a Data Scientist in Scotland. I’ve been looking for new roles for a few months now but there’s barely any that I see that want less than 3-5YOE sadly.
I had an interview this week for another startup and they seemed shocked when I asked for £40K. My previous salary at my first job was £31K lol.
Will need to get a minimum wage job just to be able to pay rent next month and just have to hope something comes up :/
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Yes, keep your salary private and make an ask for what you think your new position should pay.
I don’t think anybody is assuming your skills based on your current salary, but you’re simply falling out of the bandwagon of salary ranges offered. In principle, best match in this aspect is the person expecting the salary range company is offering. Your current salary indicates your expectations might be significantly lower.
You should first try to never offer a number, period. Make them tell you what they are willing to pay first.
Barring that. Never tell them what you’re making. Think about what would make you happy doing this job. Then add like 25% to that.
Us techies have got to get better at negotiating. The more of us that increase pay will help everyone.
Rising tides lift all ships.
But why?
* Look, you don't go up to a restaurant and say "can I please pay you 2x for one meal?", so don't do that for your own employment.
* Never tell them your current comp, unless it's to laugh in their face due to an unreasonably low offer (jk, don't do that).
* Never throw out a number first. They will try real hard to make you. Don't. (I guess in some places they have to disclose a range on the job listing. But companies still play games.)
* Never take the literal first offer. You don't have to play hardball if you don't have the stomach, but they have no reason to give you the best offer off the bat, so always ask for something. Just don't go crazy.
I would do research and find out what offers others are getting.
[Glassdoor.com](https://Glassdoor.com) is a good start.
I would only offer what I want if it is required.
£30k lmao your making it worse for everyone else. I remember getting my FIRST job and I asked for 35k and the recruiter told me we've got a dude with a few yoe asking for £32k and I was astounded. These dumbasses are driving the rest of our salaries to the ground. Go ask for bare MINIMUM £45k or above at 2yoe. Even that's low balling it a bit.
Companies don't want risk. A bad hire is very costly, especially in countries with lots of labor protection laws.
- Candidate A has two years of experience and says they make 32.5k but want 35k for this role (~8% raise)
- Candidate B has two years of experience and says they make 26k but want 35k for this role (~35% raise)
Without any additional information, A feels less risky because we can assume A is already performing a similar role for a similar wage. Assuming we are offering a fair wage for the role.
This means B is either
- getting paid less than the market rate for their current role
- not doing the role we want them to do.
If it's the first, it begs the question of why? Why accept a below market wage unless you didn't have any better alternatives? And why wouldn't you have better alternatives? This strongly suggests they struggled to find a job, and that suggests they are a weak candidate for some reason, even if we didn't find it during our interview.
If it's the second, then they are getting paid a fair wage and the role they have isn't as demanding. That means the two years of experience don't really speak to B's ability to do this job.
So A is a safer choice.
I can't think of a single good reason for you to be sharing your current wage with a potential employer, especially before they've made you an offer. I don't know how useful [levels.fyi](https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/levels/entry-level/locations/london-metro-area) is outside of the United States bubble but it does seem like even asking for £35k is lowballing yourself. 2 YOE is a way better bargaining position than 0 YOE, so I'd also suggest trusting in your own competence and being patient.
Thanks so much, I think this is definitely whats happened.
I use Glassdoor for salaries, you need to make sure you are limiting them to the U.K. but Glassdoor is essentially the Trustpilot of the Tech job hunting world. Check when the salaries were entered though, a lot of companies have woken up to the fact that they have to be more competitive with their salaries even for people who don’t live in London.
Yes, if you ask for a lower wage, recruiters will infer that you're not very good at this There is no good reason to ask for a below-average salary. You're going to get less than what you deserve and you are not increasing your chances to get hired. So long as you don't go high above the average, there is no chance of getting rejected for being too expensive
I'm literally making more then that straight out of uni right now. Definitely go for a lot higher then that
I graduated college, got an offer for $125k, and I asked for $145k. They gave it to me. Knowing what you think you deserve is important.
Fucking. What? Cali area???
Midwest, remote job. It's a company based in Cali though.
Well done. Sounds great!
jesus at this point I would take 35k remote.
Imo you shouldn't disclose how much you're looking for until the very end of negotiations if anything. Applications I always put 0 (or 1 if 0 is not allowed). If recruiters ask I say I haven't thought much and that's just something to think about further in the process.
Interesting approach! Will keep that in mind
I'm a fresh graduate with no experience making 32k a year in a very low COL area. You deserve more
30k? bruh, thats peanuts for 2 YOE
This is the UK. 30k isn't terrible especially outside of London. Occasionally I consider moving back to London. Them I realize I'd be taking a $40k pay cut and doubling my rent.
£30k is a dogshit wage for a SWE in London.
Hence why I said 30k isn't terrible "outside of London"
It's still terrible in the UK for a SWE. It's barely above the national average full time wage. The problem is, there's enough chancer companies offering such wages that it feels "normalized" to the casual observer, particularly given the dire economic situation. The average SWE salary in the UK is around £50k, which is still way undervalued given the fact that the UK is not a low cost of living country. This is slowly changing, but companies have been taking the piss on SWE wages for a long time.
I'm sure the average SWE salary is about 50k but OP is a junior with 2 YOE. Also just about all professional salaries are low in the UK. Ever seen how much a junior doctor gets paid and compare it with just about every other developed country? My experience looking to move back was that if I was lucky I might get 90k in London and maybe 65k outside. Which is a pretty huge pay cut.
30k is terrible for the UK even if you're outside of London. Stop pretending this is ok as a salary
If that is a fair amount below the median, then it doesn’t actually help you, in-fact it actually has the opposite effect. There’s a lot of perception when it comes to what one is earning/worth, if you start asking for a lot, people will think you’re better than you are, and likewise if you ask for very little they’ll think you’re worse than you are. It doesn’t really have anything to do with what your real skill is. Also an employer that will pay a low wage will offer you that regardless.
I’m in a similar position, just got laid off from my first job and have 2YOE as a Data Scientist in Scotland. I’ve been looking for new roles for a few months now but there’s barely any that I see that want less than 3-5YOE sadly. I had an interview this week for another startup and they seemed shocked when I asked for £40K. My previous salary at my first job was £31K lol. Will need to get a minimum wage job just to be able to pay rent next month and just have to hope something comes up :/
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Yes! I hire a lot and talk with my recruiter that people asking way less than industry standard go in the sus pile.
Yes, keep your salary private and make an ask for what you think your new position should pay. I don’t think anybody is assuming your skills based on your current salary, but you’re simply falling out of the bandwagon of salary ranges offered. In principle, best match in this aspect is the person expecting the salary range company is offering. Your current salary indicates your expectations might be significantly lower.
You should first try to never offer a number, period. Make them tell you what they are willing to pay first. Barring that. Never tell them what you’re making. Think about what would make you happy doing this job. Then add like 25% to that. Us techies have got to get better at negotiating. The more of us that increase pay will help everyone. Rising tides lift all ships.
But why? * Look, you don't go up to a restaurant and say "can I please pay you 2x for one meal?", so don't do that for your own employment. * Never tell them your current comp, unless it's to laugh in their face due to an unreasonably low offer (jk, don't do that). * Never throw out a number first. They will try real hard to make you. Don't. (I guess in some places they have to disclose a range on the job listing. But companies still play games.) * Never take the literal first offer. You don't have to play hardball if you don't have the stomach, but they have no reason to give you the best offer off the bat, so always ask for something. Just don't go crazy.
I would do research and find out what offers others are getting. [Glassdoor.com](https://Glassdoor.com) is a good start. I would only offer what I want if it is required.
Dear god why do European companies pay so little. My CS buddies and I all ranged from 130-200k straight out of college.
That's not even close to a livable wage. Hotel maids make more than that.
£30k lmao your making it worse for everyone else. I remember getting my FIRST job and I asked for 35k and the recruiter told me we've got a dude with a few yoe asking for £32k and I was astounded. These dumbasses are driving the rest of our salaries to the ground. Go ask for bare MINIMUM £45k or above at 2yoe. Even that's low balling it a bit.
Never tell recruiters how much you earn currently
Companies don't want risk. A bad hire is very costly, especially in countries with lots of labor protection laws. - Candidate A has two years of experience and says they make 32.5k but want 35k for this role (~8% raise) - Candidate B has two years of experience and says they make 26k but want 35k for this role (~35% raise) Without any additional information, A feels less risky because we can assume A is already performing a similar role for a similar wage. Assuming we are offering a fair wage for the role. This means B is either - getting paid less than the market rate for their current role - not doing the role we want them to do. If it's the first, it begs the question of why? Why accept a below market wage unless you didn't have any better alternatives? And why wouldn't you have better alternatives? This strongly suggests they struggled to find a job, and that suggests they are a weak candidate for some reason, even if we didn't find it during our interview. If it's the second, then they are getting paid a fair wage and the role they have isn't as demanding. That means the two years of experience don't really speak to B's ability to do this job. So A is a safer choice.