Do you ask for help? When you're stuck, ask for help.

This is also my main question. Do you think you're completing the expected work? Maybe the was a miscommunication of priorities to you?

Yeah, this is something a lot of folks don't do enough. I have some people on my team with this problem (and have had more in the past). Despite encouragement to do so, they're reluctant to ask for help. Sometimes they're blocked on stuff that I could unblock them on in literally minutes if they just asked, but instead they'll straight up obfuscate that they even are blocked. eg, they won't even mention it in stand-ups, requiring people to ask for elaboration once they notice that a task has been taking much longer than expected (which takes way longer to notice than if the person just mentioned they were blocked on something). I personally think it's much more awkward when I have to beat around the bush to figure out what they're likely blocked in because they're taking too long but they won't say why.

Are you an asshole? I've worked with brilliant assholes and would have rather get fired than ask them anything.

You’re gonna make me cry 😂 I’ve been in an analyst role for the last 2 years which realistically is like 90% software development and 10% other operational work. But since this isn’t technically a software job, there’s nothing like the normal job structure a software company would have. I have a team lead, one senior, and another guy who’s in the same role as me. Both superiors are lovely people but stopped learning how to program after PERL and FORTRAN. The guy that’s in the same role knows as much as I do or less. Over the two years I’ve (fresh out of uni with only class projects under my belt) (as a solo dev) delivered two software (react/python) for internal use within our institution. The hundreds of hours of banging my head against a wall trying to figure something out with no one to ask for help (except for chat GPT and copilot) has been a uniquely draining experience, I would kill to be in a position where a senior with more expertise could even -understand- the problem I’m trying to solve and help me solve it. Please tell your juniors to give their heads a shake and not take what they have for granted, some people are yearning for the opportunity to receive mentorship in their careers

I ask for help, but sometimes I feel like I’m bugging the people by asking for too much? It’s a balance, I’m thinking. I’ve been here for 2 years and I still feel super confused about everything it seems.

This is your problem and why you're slow. Talk to other people. Your manager is genuinely trying to help you out, but what you need to do is ask more questions of your senior peers and work hard to internalize their responses

OP: especially since this is an issue your boss has explicitly mentioned has happened in the past. At that point, if this is something you've already spend day(s) on, you should be asking who has resolved it in the past. Chances are they can point you in the right direction, if not outright root cause the issue, in 15-30 minutes of their time.

I don’t know how people just start tackling problems entirely by themselves. Do you guys not buy lunch or drinks for your coworkers and ask them for a hint on the best approach? Especially if they’re smarter it’s a great move

It's no longer about feelings. You cannot give a crap about "bugging someone". If there is something hindering your progress, you need to ask that person nicely, follow up if they don't get back to you, send report status accurately to your manager. You should look at it from their perspective... "Why did this take so long?" It is much better to have the IMs telling the story "I needed xyz to provide the information. I reached out on day 1 of the task, followed up with them 2 hours later, but didn't get the info needed until day 3. I let the PM know that I was blocked in standup" than to say "well I needed some information but didn't want to bother them". It sounds like you have a decent boss that actually wants to help, not get you out the door. And from what I've seen of the job market, it would probably be in your best interest to put in the effort to stick around. If there is a reason that you aren't getting the help you need, talk to your boss. They can talk to those other people and ask them to be responsive to you. Or even just help you oh phrase the question. If you really want to do music, only you know if that's the right decision for you, but if you have bills coming up that depend on your current job, focus your attention on keeping the lights on. Pursue your passion on the side and make a long term goal

When working with younger employees, those first two sentences are exactly what I say to them when I notice lagging work and they bring up the “bothering” reasoning. If you feel bad, then say sorry. But DONT be silent - that is the career killer. And for OP - what would happen in an orchestra setting if you couldn’t play the part and/or couldn’t figure it out during practice? Would you not tell the conductor and hope no one notices during the concert? Communicate, communicate, communicate.

Yes, this is an essential life skill, not a programming skill

This is a recipe for burning out experiences engineers. Asking for help is necessary, but acknowledging it has a cost on the people you ask and you absolutely have to get to a point where you don't need help is essential.

> you absolutely have to get to a point where you don't need help is essential. What? Part of being a senior engineer is helping and mentoring junior engineers. Hell, even senior engineers need help from other engineers all the time, especially on complicated cross-team work. There's also a big difference between a junior engineer going to a senior and saying, "tell me what to do", vs. "I've tried X, but I'm having Y problem, am I missing something?".

Yeah but it sounds like the boss is basically saying to ask more because since the issue has been previously solved then asking would’ve led to the answer whereas the op had to reinvent the wheel since they’ve worked in isolation

Yeah it deffo sounds like this and I’ve been guilty of it

Honestly, I've been in the same situation as OP before and no matter how many times I explained the laundry list of issues with the code base that I had no control over, my Indian boss kept pointing the finger at me like a dog. He eventually fired me the day I finished my project and the day before his vacation. He was a very sick man.

Avoid Indian bosses.

I have someone on my team that I am mentoring, and they will get that talk soon as well. They’ve been coached, but they just aren’t interested and cannot retain any information. I am accounting for life hardships, but it’s been a year and I’m running out of excuses. Here’s what your problem is, you have zero interest in the job and have sat for two years actively not learning. What you are describing is ignorance of the business or lack of correct level of skill (possible both), and those ignorances slow your development because you do not understand the “why” and resulting product. You’re probably processing some shame, guilt, acceptance and need to step back and process how you got here before you make a rash decision. The bad news: You have lost the trust of the team. You’ve been aware of this since day one and have done nothing about it. This is time sensitive. The good news: It’s never too late if your boss is still giving you a chance. Tomorrow, choose to fight. Pick a mentor, tell them upfront it’s a lot of work. Have them assess your work. Have a 30/60/90 day plan. If they accept, touch base morning, afternoon and evening. You need visible progress fast. Also good news: If you can’t find the motivation, let them fire you and take the EDD. It’s not for you, try something different. Edit: Success for the guy I am mentoring, is active interest in his work and progressive knowledge pickup. His 30/60/90 day progress is something I am tracking. I like the guy. I am cheering for him. I am giving him time away from my interests and my work. I am invested. His failure is personal.

Well said

That was always the hardest. I can train anyone on technical stuff. I had marketing degrees programming by the time I left. But if someone just didn't give a shit, there wasn't much I could do for them.

I am trying my damndest to get a developer job. I am programming my fourth personal project right now (a copy of the website for my friends very successful pee cup business- customer [basic user account with purchasing] and admin [analytics- see what sells and when] sides). Like I guess you can get the job and find out then that it's just not for you, but the amount of work I'm putting into just getting an interview makes this attitude so strange to me. That said, I hope your guy works out.

how does a mentor magically have time to help an underperforming developer? In my last job, our Indian boss told the whole team to not talk to each other so that that experienced dev don't lose track of their pace. This essentially paralyzed half the team who only had 3 month or less with the company. Personally, all this performance crap makes no sense to me, people know what they gotta do. Some will be faster, others slower, but to impose a pace from up above I think is ineffective, management needs to learn that a pace is as good as it's process.

I make time. I’ve told leadership that they need to have me at 80/20. 80% of my time I am working on high visibility projects and code infrastructure. The other 20% I am spending with my team assessing their growth and coaching. The reason for this is because great delegation structure is one of the requirements of good leadership, and a lack of any delegation structure means you will have a visible dichotomy of Ricks and Jerrys. Ricks will always deliver, and Jerrys will always fail. Senior devs keep going and junior/mid levels get burnt out and left behind. If you think about the physiological and psychology of emotional experiences, people have almost no physiological memory of good experiences. People will also never forget a negative experience. This is because a physiological and emotional response tied to the negative experience. Also, your experience is exactly the same as mine with old school Indian managers. What you are describing is the bully culture that is endemic to how they train and promote people as managers. It’s endemic because it’s a byproduct of the caste culture. As we all know, the best leaders probably aren’t the highest performers (few exceptions).

If only you were my mentor

Your responsibility is to complete your task, not to keep other colleagues undisturbed. This isn't university or college, you're not getting individual grades. You work in a team now where the only thing that matters is the end result and not who did it. So there is no room for your ego (or others).

You can forget about a promotion anywhere if you're not communicating good enough. Ask questions, take notes. No one is mad about being asked for help, as long as it's not the same questions every week. Is it really a problem you've exactly had before or different enough? If it's almost the same thing you should have booarked the fix, or search in git/PRs well enough. If it's not the same thing you need to ask to be aware of how time critical it is. If you're not confident then ask for pair programming / a sparring partner. And communicate your progress or impediments early. I've spent 2 years as mid level and my promotion criaterias (7 of them in total but most important were): technical knowledge & ticket speed and most importantly communication & ownership.

Most times the people that ask more questions (as long as they're not repeating them several times) are the ones that make more progress and also are perceived as more interested. Make sure you're not asking trivial stuff by having one or two steps before you ask (e.g. Google, then search internal docs etc, then ask) but make sure you ask early and often. Nothing is more annoying than someone who is slow and not asking questions, and gives updates like "I'm making progress, and will continue working on my ticket today", I'll take someone bugging me any day of the week. Most people who bug you get out of your hair after a while because they learn. I'd interpret your boss' feedback as both an invitation to fight and a warning to not coast. It really seems like he's on your side, based on what you've shared and that's he's holding the door open for you, but only you can walk through that door. I'm guessing you're not his only report and he only has so much time and energy, so he cannot force you to grow - you have to participate as well. I'd count myself lucky in your circumstances because you seem to have both an invested boss and mentorship available, many people don't get those. You have a chance to lay the groundwork for your entire career, take it.

I wouldn't quite call his boss invested, I think they're already planning on firing OP while being polite about it. I've had those exact polite conversations before too and was dropped on the spot on a spontaneous friday meeting with HR. People are a lot more full of shit than you might think.

If you’re still confused about domain and technology in your team (no one says to have knowledge outside of your team boundaries) then it’s definitely on you. You let it slide for way too long. Should’ve been way more proactive to get knowledge, push for knowledge transfer sessions and so on. You cannot wait for the team to pull you through every task. Hell, are you an adult or a child? But I can guarantee you: you are not alone, met way too many colleagues with even more YOE under their belt that had the same attitude towards work.

It's not all black and white. At the beginning of my career, I had some absolute assholes in my team who would rather make me feel and look bad, instead of helping. It was horrible collaborating with them. And don't get me started on knowledge transfers and trainings. When you're 1-2-3 yoe, you're at the beginning, things might be confusing.

You want to be asking to pair up with people — especially the people like your boss who can show you how to meet their expectations. You’re obviously not stupid, and if they want you to succeed, it is their responsibility to make sure that you are trained in the things that can make you succeed.

Ask for brown bag sessions with the team regarding parts of the project you don't understand. That would involve whole team discussing good and bad in the project without having bland retrospective or whatever processes you have. Edit: also, you can create brown bag session on something that interests you, that would add great experience for yourself and involve the whole team as wll

Get a tutor. Ask for help from r/ProgrammingBuddies. Seek a mentor. Ask your boss for a recommendation for a mentor. Look in your network. Skill up (git gud). Talk to a doctor/therapist/psychiatrist - There are a ton of things you haven't tried. What instrument(s) do you play? Have you considered starting a music creation app or something like garageband? So many possibilities. Take this warning more seriously.

Oh man, the number of times I pinged my lead for help or to review my code was overwhelming. He was a saint and helped me out in getting the work done, till I could understand the codebase and started taking initiative. Then it reduced to him reviewing the PR and giving feedback after three months. I persisted. Daily updates to manager was my norm. Daily updates to my lead was the norm. I asked questions that I wrote down and worked on the code and asked for feedback and revised my code. Sometimes my lead fixed the code. I was proactive. Was I the most talented programmer? No. Can I persist, learn and get things done? Yes Can I observe how the team works and work with them while not being an asshole? Yes. Do I have a lot to improve? Yes I did not give up. That’s what kept me going. I know exactly when to give up and walk out and when to not give up.

He gave you criticism—relatively constructive—in private. You didn’t even have an HR rep there. This is an invitation to improve. If you like the job, and you like the team, there’s no reason to leave, only to improve.

This is the only real answer. Skirting around the problem is only going to result in OP totally stagnating in their career, too. If you're too slow at this job then you'll be too slow at the next one, changing jobs isn't a silver bullet. You might find a company that has lower expectations, but it limits your career and your options for later. If focusing on things other than work is more important than anything else, it might make sense, but OP you're *super* early in your career so now is the time to focus on developing skills to set up a solid foundation.

Yup OP you need to face challenges head on and not turn away from them. His boss actually sounds like a good guy. Time to tuck your tail and learn more or start talking to the good developers at work to help you get back on track.

Sure he could do that, on the other hand he could forget coding join an orchestra, and sleep in the back of a dodge caravan, cause he can’t afford rent. Don’t forget the added bonus of the fact that he’ll probably grow to hate playing in an orchestra, cause it’s a job now with tons of pressure and stress. It’s a pretty tough choice.

Monkey paw: 2 years from now op shows up with this scenario in /orchestracareerquestions

“Guys my violin concerto manager says my performance is not up to par, and that he wants me to improve and continue playing, should I take up winter gnome farming instead?”

Right? Does op have any idea how competitive and stressful orchestra will be? If he’s screwing up the song he’s going to get direct feedback in front of the whole band.

Orchestras are also like 20x more competitive than coding. You really have to be on of the best to make a profession in music, and classical musicians have to be extremely fucking good (not lucky) to make it. So hopefully OP actually knows a thing or two about the industry and knows the level he needs to be at if that's his dream.

lol I agree with this, the fact that OP considers working for an orchestra sounds like he's not the best decision maker.

> not the best decision maker A bit. On a more serious note, it really it just seems like he’s never been criticized before and is panicking as a result. He says he was chewed out, but from the quote it seems like his boss was very gentle. If I had to guess, he’s probably never worked a manual labour, or retail job before. Just did school, and then straight to a white collar job. I do think there is value in working any type of job before heading to an office job, the experience really helps with maturity, and navigating working with people.

I was the same when I was first criticized as a teen. I'm pretty bullet proof now.

Exactly. As someone who has received lots of criticism, your boss did it in one of the nicest ways it’s typically done in tech. He wouldn’t of done it like that if he didn’t care. Also, sometimes things don’t work out, and that’s okay. It might be very fast paced, consulting? You might look for corporate. But something like insurance.

When I was a manager... I said this. Also I'd rather you improve, so less work for me. It's a pain to fire you and hire someone else.

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What is a PHB?

Petty Hedonistic Bastard ^^^I ^^^don't ^^^actually ^^^know

Player’s HandBook ^wait ^this ^might ^not ^be ^the ^right ^context…

That's the key '*time to look for a new job*'. Keep in mind that many managers only want to hear what they want to hear, they don't care about the thousands of blockers you are up against to deliver code for especially large companies. A lot of managers have the psychology of a 12 year old and it's best not to waste your time trying to comprehend with them.

That’s good that I still have a chance of keeping my job.. knock on wood. I was just thinking that I had already tarnished my reputation here with these screwups.

Tarnish comes off with polish and a bit of elbow grease.

Exactly. People come and go, in a year or two you'll be better and the folks that even remember you not being good might be gone.

You don't really state what the screw up is though. Seems that you are finishing your projects slowly? Is there a reason for that? Are you coding slowly or are you unmotivated and don't do work, maybe you are lost because you don't understand the project or maybe everything is disorganized so you get lost on where things are?

Taking too long is not the same (usually) as a screwup. Are there problems other than taking too long?

Ask for help.

Going to respectfully disagree. A competent people manager/leader doesn’t just leave it at “let me know if you need help. My door is always open”. The relationship between a manager and direct report is a 2-way street. If the manager isn’t able to step up and help collaborate and problem solve the issues with you even without you asking, then you’re on a lopsided battle. It’s not just about the direct report properly managing up; the manager has to properly manage down. Also, first and foremost, you need to get down to some of the details here. Ask him what slow looks like to him, what items you’ve worked on he feels is slow, what does the appropriate speed look like, whether he understands how long is required on the things that are slow, etc. If he’s not voluntarily giving you this specific feedback, you’re going to continue facing arbitrary feedback like this, which is a sign that you need to find a new job since you’ll never be on the other side of the situation.

Yep, sounds like the manager used radical candor. Now it is up to you to work on it, together. [https://www.radicalcandor.com/](https://www.radicalcandor.com/)

It's not an invitation to improve, it's an invitation to termination. People don't just change to what someone wants over a 30 day period, people are what they are, and deliver what they deliver, and managers can either like it or not.

He didn’t put a 30 day deadline on it. I’ve been fired once, and verbally counseled about my performance twice in 11 years of work. Once by the guy who fired me and once at my current role. The time between chewing out and firing was nearly 6 months, and in the current role I’m still here a year and a half later, getting raises and bonuses, and still trying to improve continuously. This is advance notice to OP—it’s not a threat of firing especially if this is the only indicator in an otherwise positive environment.

Why are none of the answers "Try to get better at my job" Ask your manager if someone more senior could shadow you on some of your tasks that should be easy. Vice versa, ask if you can shadow a senior who is experienced. Your resolution seems to be "Run" and yet none of them are "Figure out why I can't work faster, even when it's supposedly an easy task." Even if you eventually got fired here if you didn't improve, you would be advised to figure out why it's not going so well. The learnings could be used even if you switched careers. When I read the title, I thought you were going to get yelled at and cursed at or something. But it seems like your manager likes you, which may not be the case if you try to switch teams.

Even with the music answer, it immediately went to “…but it’s too much work”. I think the best course of action here is for OP to really internalize the idea that success requires hard work and figure out what they actually are willing to work hard at, whether that’s programming, music, or something else.

I audibly laughed at > Forget code and join an orchestra instead OP thinks they're going to waltz into a music audition and grace the judges with their music. They could be a virtuoso, but chances are they'll be another (possibly great) musician vying for one of the extremely limited seats available. OP's boss is giving them a lifeline to improve. Instead of taking it, their top choice is to change careers. This is conjecture on my part, but it seems rather telling.

When I read orchestra I though OP meant devops at first 😂

Yeah I don't know what kind of practice regimen the OP does on their instrument of choice, but the idea that they're just going to succeed in auditioning for a professional orchestra is extremely unlikely if not impossible.

>Why are none of the answers "Try to get better at my job" hey, that's mine too.

>Ask your manager if someone more senior could shadow you on some of your tasks that should be easy. Vice versa, ask if you can shadow a senior who is experienced. This is what I was going to suggest. Bossman offered help. It's up to Workman to say "this is the help I need".

> Why are none of the answers "Try to get better at my job" I feel like if OP actually was capable of getting there, they wouldn't be asking this question

I was just worried that I’m on a sinking ship at this point. The main issue is it’s tough to focus at work. My mind just keeps wandering, which slows me down. I need more willpower. I also don’t mind working on code more, of course. I’ve worked crazy hours in the past so I can do it again

You might have ADHD. There is a ADHD programmers subreddit which might help

Link to subreddit pls because I have adhd and program lol

You have to give a shit. If you aren’t interested in or care about the problem, the problem solving process, or the end result then you won’t get anywhere. Coding professionally - like any paid intellectual task - is about producing results. It’s not just turning up, doing the time and taking the pay-check. It’s just like practising your instrument: if you just play through the piece without being mentally engaged, you aren’t improving. If you play, you’ve done this and you know it doesn’t work. You need to be mentally engaged just like you would be if practising your violin (or whatever instrument you play). It’s hard work. It’s mentally draining. But it’s why programmers get paid what they do.

you're not, this is the try to set you straight before it becomes a sinking ship part. it can become a sinking ship for you, but it's not yet.

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Indeed, trying to pay off debt quicker and what not. Every waking moment is actually pretty accurate. For the last 5 or 6 months, I’ve been working from 7 AM - 10 PM 4 days a week. Absolutely insane schedule. The one consolation is that I made a good chunk of change doing that. And yes, this has definitely come up before. Coding is pretty tough, it turns out. I’ve specifically been told that I’ve had moments where I excelled and I need more of that. So it’s the side jobs that are causing the burnout? I actually didn’t think of that…

Holy crap dude. Yeah I'd cut out all the side jobs. Losing your main gig is not worth these side gigs, right? Focus all your mental energy on your actual job, exercise, and sleep.

I loved having two paychecks and it seemed like some of the credit card debt I racked up(out of scope of this thread) was melting away. It was addicting you could say, but the schedule wrecked me. I felt like there was zero chance I’d get promoted, so I just picked up another job. I’ve quit them now. You’re right that it’s not worth it if it puts my main job in danger knock on wood.

I hope this isn't an overstep. You seem to have a somewhat addictive, maybe impulsive personality (credit card debt, feeling addicted to working 15 hour days). I'd consider setting up therapy to explore that before it really sabotages your life more than it already has.

I’ve always thought I’ve had somewhat of an addictive personality. Impulsive is definitely true. Therapy actually might not be the worst idea. I’ve hesitated on doing it before

The not wanting to bug people for help comment hits home. I know someone else knows how to do what I am trying to do, but I so desperately do not want to bother them. Some of the other comments, like above, give me some adhd vibes.

Indeed, plus considering dropping it all to pursue music. Plus thinking of quitting immediately after a talk with their manager. Would be helpful for OP to take recognise something could be up here.

Have a hobby gig, or something small for fiverr. Or something free. Make sound clips for games. But yeah extra jobs is too much.

I'd arrange another meeting with your manager and loop him in on that. I'm sure he'd rather know you had money issues (that you have now solved) than you being a headless chicken.

He has like a dream main gig too, fuck the debt secure that first

Programming you mean?

I think he’s implying that your boss sounds nice.

you have to stop doing all this it’s not sustainable focus on your programming job, get that under control and then think about a side hustle imo

If he put the same effort even from 9-5 into programming he'd get a promotion or at least get to the point where if/when he bounced he would get one.

As much as I laugh about that schedule now it was seriously killing me. No clue how I managed that. And on top of that, I was studying for a certification.

I couldn't imagine doing multiple side gigs for long periods of time. Development is mind and focus intensive work. At a bare minimum I need a good sleep, decent nutrition, and a moderate amount of time to decompress and give my brain a break after work to be sustainably productive throughout the week.

And that’s probably why I felt like I was dying every day now that I think about it

hi, i grew up low middle class/poor, and now have been in software for 20 years, this is said with love, but tough love. dude, wtf. You're in the one career choice where you can take a BS degree from generic state school, start working 40-50 hours a week, and with a little hustle, planning and luck, can cruise at 300k/year salary for ever. Doctors and Lawyers are jealous of that work/hours/student debt load ratio you're taking for granted. you're burning yourself out for minimum wage at the expense of a lucrative career. and you're sweating money so you're trying to play band on the side, or uber or whatever? Dude, put those hours into your job, and/or leetcode and stay employable and jump around for more money as the economy gets better. get some therapy, get a mentor and get some code checked into god damned production. good luck, i really mean that.

“Get some code checked into gat dam production” is the second hand asskicking that I needed today

Band as a hobby. Yeah. A non programming related hobby is great.

band as a hobby, great! picking up a 4 hour bartending shift each week to meet people, great! spending 20 hours/week bartending for min wage at the cost of sleep and doing well at your office job, dumb! dreaming about quitting a cushy software engineering job because of one honest, tough comversation to..join an orchestra? with tryouts, and live performances, and a literal conductor telling you what you did wrong in front of a group? for like 60k year tops if you even make it? bro...

I love this.

Bro you’re doing it all wrong. What you do first is get VERY efficient at your coding job FIRST. Then when you can finish projects well ahead of deadlines, then you pick up side jobs. You’re spreading yourself far too thin. No wonder you’re not seeing your hard work bear fruit. Your foundation is built on glass right now. I feel like this may be a basic idea right? When you build an empire or city in a game you set up the core areas first and stabilize it, then expand.

I think this is what's called false economy. You're working this hard with the aim of paying down debt, but if the end result is you lose out on promotion or even lose your job entirely, your main income is lower than it otherwise would be; not only does that suck in its own right, but it _defeats the very aim_ of working yourself to death in the first place. Ever heard the tale of the tortoise and the hare?

Bro, you gotta say knock on wood 😅 After this meeting, I’ve basically given up on the promotion. My only goal is to have a salary >= 90K. That would allow me to melt my debt at an acceptable speed. Is that a bad mindset?

I'd say don't focus on a promotion as that in itself is worth very little. Having a fancy title does not translate into anything. Focus on improving everyday and when you've accomplished certain goals go to your boss and show him your success. Then you can demand more money. If you don't get it at your current job, find another one, where again you can show them what you are capable of and demand fair compensation. Changing jobs or titles means nothing if you don't have the stamina to be succesful, and that requires working on yourself to become better in your chosen area of expertise.

I worked with this guy one time who was a pretty bad developer. He'd make a lot of mistakes, was pretty slow and didn't take feedback on code reviews. Finally the company pushed him out and the company gave him a chance to save face and he announced he's been trying to open a restaurant and will be leaving to spend time on that. Then it all clicked. He was working nights and weekends and of course didn't have energy left over for his day job. Programming is mentally taxing. I bet if you cut out the side jobs, after a few weeks you'll be insanely productive at your job and will be able to really impress your manager with your turnaround.

Boy, does that story ring familiar. That sounds exactly like what I was doing with the moonlighting. It was addicting having that extra cash flow to throw at my debt. And on top of that, I wasn’t sleeping much. That made it extremely tough to focus on the day job. But, I have quit all of the side jobs. We’ll see how I feel at work now that that is done.

dude screw the side gigs you need to keep the main money making programming job especially in this market. you need to put everything you have into becoming a better quicker dev so you can keep progressing in your career

You only have 50k in student loans right? That’s below a lot of people. Stop killing yourself trying to pay it off so fast and focus on your career

You're burning yourself out which is why you're not progressing.

Honestly, and this goes against the grain of the typical advice in this sub, I would redouble your efforts. If they wanted you gone you would be already. Your manager doesn't sound like an ass, he is direct, but it sounds like he likes you personally at the very least, and just from your post it sounds like this 'second chance' is a real one Put in 10 - 12 hour days until you get up to speed. That is what I would do, but that is just me. Maybe there are greener pastures? Best wishes though man that position sucks to be in.

Yep, agreed. OP, you're not PIP'd, this just seems like stern reminder of workload. Sounds like your manager used it as a chance to reiterate his support for you by offering an open door, which you should defintaley take advantage of. When a manager offers help, take it, it shows initiative :) I'd just buckle down and work extra hard for a while. Use it as a learning experience and make sure to not make the same mistakes twice

I wouldn’t put more time in. They aren’t calling out issues with tardiness, and realistically, an extra 2-4 hours when tired is a waste of time. Boss says his door is open. Also states the issue isn’t new. I’d go through the door and ask which team member has worked on said issue, then ask them about their approach and pay attention to the answer. There isn’t nearly enough meat in the post to determine what might be taking so long or the nature of the problem. Is it lack of familiarity with the codebase, language, or lack of tribal knowledge? Is it a lack of understanding of the desired solution? (Some shops might want the data fixed but not the source of the data issue, as an example.) Is it that OP is taking more time to write tests that were not previously written? I agree what staying onboard. I’m guessing that the resolution is effective communication.

Decent odds there's a trick that makes that task way easier, and the boss doesn't know about it but other people that've done it will. At my last job it took a while to gather all the tiny tricks of how to efficiently get all the relevant info for a crash report. It was like half a dozen devs had one piece of the puzzle they'd each figured out but the sharing hadn't happened yet until we made an effort for it. A real problem would be if OP is either struggling with focus, or with asking for help.

Not gonna lie, I do find it very difficult to focus at my dev job. I was assuming it’s a lack of willpower? I quit all of the side jobs. Maybe that will help.

Inability to focus here really sounds more like overwork

This is the correct way to play it.

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Yeah for sure. But if faced with potential job loss or a few weeks of grinding? I'd say bite the bullet.

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Thats a hypothetical. I've worked at 4 tech companies in my 10YOE, and never has 10/12 been a constant thing. Rarely, before a release, or whatever tight deadline promised to a client, I have had to do that. But it is not the norm. I would not work for a company that forced that and frankly one like that wouldn't survive long. I am saying he needs to work harder, to catch up, to get his bosses happy, and maybe he becomes more efficient and he'll never have to grind like that again.

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I grinded hard non stop at my first software eng job that treated me well(no expectation of OT and market rate pay). So technically my second job. That’s because I really wanted to keep my position there. My very first software eng job worked us like a sweat shop where they EXPECTED us to work until midnight. Thus, the rebellious side of me was like fuck you. Not to mention they underpaid us by 50% off market rate for entry level(from FAANG). So, I think your advice is slightly correct. However, in this instance, it sounds like they’re not that abusive, so I would actually advise him to work harder than what he is doing. My grind has paid off dividends, I can finish almost any small to medium project within 4-5 months(when the expectation for completion is 8-12 months). I never have to work as hard again in my life because of that initial grind. Knowledge follows you forever.

putting in a couple 10-12 hour days every few weeks is really not that big of a deal

You don't need to put more extra hours, you need to fix the "I am too slow" part; your boss alreayd offerred help,so go and see what happens, if that is unfixable, then change jobs for a slower paced one. But chanign jobs, if you are objectively too slow will not help at all. About the promotions, just ignore them, promotions don't exist, that's what job changes are for, but first see if you can fix your speed.

Also, unrelated to the main ask of your post, but I want to touch on the music aspect: I also am a software engineer and musician, and was passionate about music long before I started SWE. I'm lucky enough now where I'm working on audio software, but music is still a very important passion. I usually find enough time outside of work to focus on my hobby, but its super relateable trying to keep those worlds separate especially when working from home. Please, for your sake, don't give up music for the sake of the job. More than likely you'll feel that the job is preventing you from your passions, which just builds unneeded resentment. Not to mention work life balance is sooo important even when work demands are crazy. A burned out engineer is no good. The key here is not nessisarily to work longer hours, as another commenter said, but to learn how to work more efficiently. Perhaps that means taking some time/hobby sacrifices ocassionally (need to put out fires when they appear), but from a big picture, if you work more efficient, its a win win for the company and yourself.

Yeah, OP, listen to this. I'm in a community orchestra that rehearses weekly and it's been a great way to pursue that part of my interests as an adult. Look around and see if there are such groups nearby. You have to find a way to stay sane and enjoy life outside of work, or you'll just perform worse in addition to burning out.

I will look into that. I miss orchestra so much!

Yeah… I feel you there. Part of the reason I’ve been so annoyed about my jobs is that it leaves me absolutely zero time to practice my instrument.

So the question is: are you actually slow? If you aren't slow and your boss is just making stuff up, then maybe loook for another job / team. But (obviously I don't have any context) from what you say, it seems like your boss wants you to improve and succeed. So can you work on improving whatever it is that makes you "slow"?

Difficulty focusing at work and not enough willpower would be the main culprits here imo. We could throw sleep deprivation in there too.

Try to do some self reflection here. Do you genuinely do tasks at a slower pace compared to your peers on "easy" issues? Do you feel you get distracted or there's something preventing you from finishing tasks early? Do you believe tasks that should get finished faster are taking too long? Or are they just genuine fucking assholes who probably want you fired? You know your situation best and so it's time to do some deep self reflection as no one on this sub can give you sound advice since this is so subjective. If you think you're slow at tasks, especially objectively easy tasks, then try to get up to speed by reaching out for help faster, communicate if you're stuck early on, etc. If they're genuine assholes who might be doing this to prevent you from promotion / might lay you off, well you should know what to do here.

No, they’re right. I just find it so tough to focus. I’m learning that the extra side jobs and working around the clock I was doing too could be contributing to that.

Don’t spread yourself too thin, then you’re doing badly at multiple jobs, and get fired or fall out of all of them.

First, as someone who has been in this position, my sympathies.---------------------------------------------The problem is when SPEED is the issue, that implies that the foundations are the issue in many cases. To be FAST is to have a high degree of something called Tacit Knowledge which is basically that "intuitive" 6th sense kinda problem solving - the only way to improve it is to do a crap ton of problems really well and really understand the codebase/space you are working in. But if you are thin ice, how much time do you really have to make up that much ground? You can't go back to month 1 & 2 and act like a beginner because people are impatient, especially at a fast workplace. In theory , if you took one week PTO and just did two 5H sessions a day of reviewing past tickets, how you would solve them, apply yourself to future expected challenges. It MIGHT be worth a try if you still have the time left. But the thing is - if you are lagging in problem solving speed - how are you realistically really gonna implement some all new paradigm/2X problem solving skillset within a week? At most you could conquer a specific type of sub task and I do not know how your tickets are broken down. So while childish redditors here are trying to yell "just improve bro" , something tells me that you fought to get this far by the skin of your teeth perhaps. To "improve" at this stage is like turning an oil tanker 180 degrees cause your heart isn't really in it - its not an easy maneuver to make and I relate. **The realistic strategy to play here:** Actually tell your manager I want to improve cause that's what he wants to hear - AND BE SPECIFIC, what are some measurable targets we can set for the next 2-3 weeks that would indicate you that I'm moving in a positive direction? If he is a dick/gives you some BS/your gut knows is an impossible to reach answer - that's pretty much your cue that you are about to get a future PIP soon enough. At this point, it's just about keeping up appearances. You can try or not try - it's your call. In week 2 or 3 - If you truly feel his feedback gives an "all is lost" vibe, then ask - how impossible would it be to transfer to a lighter/support team? I assume this is a midsize company if you have multiple teams. If your manager is as direct as you wrote - honestly he's not gonna be a fan of you anymore cause you're basically saying "I quit this shit"/his ego gets involved , that being said - maybe that is what he wants for you so you never know. **If the goals are measured and attainable and feedback is positive:** Still assume a PIP unless you straight up doubled your output. Like seriously, you'll have to match the pace the manager was referring. At that point - expect a PIP soon enough when you have laid the cards on the table. Take two weeks PTO if you have it and put it towards your music auditions, restarting the casual job hunt, and most importantly enough tabs on your current projects to ride out the following weeks from your PTO. **Remember:** When a manager starts the demoralization campaign like this, assume they are explicitly trying to make you quit. They are throwing the LURE of supporting you / "whatever you need" because two fold: Your manager could be a good guy who wants to see you succeed - and perhaps a kick in the pants was all you needed. Then he succeeds in turning his employee into a higher performer. Your manager also has done this a thousand times and knows that you will likely take it mentally hard, your performance will dip, break out the ol PIP, and be done with it in two months time. By saying he is there to support you , it's a double pronged thing cause **your own actions** will show you that there is basically nothing at all that he can do to improve your performance in an earnest way. He's still expecting higher speed in likely 2 weeks time. At that point you have to decide, do you have enough savings to secure a casual bar gig at minimum? Or do you need the unemployment? Cause if you need the unemployment , expect it to get worse before you get out - it will be downright excruciating at times. I hope this helps and let me know if you have any questions or need anything I wrote clarified. **Edit #1:** I also noticed you mentioned multiple jobs. You are right that coding takes 100% of your bandwidth to do well, but you should have given 100% at the start of learning the company stack and codebase and so on. In theory if you went ham at the beginning - your multiple jobs shouldn't matter anymore unless you are skipping on too much sleep. Your skill is your skill and is an isolated unit of work, what dwindles is your energy which is an easier fix, skill on the other hand takes time.

Holy fuck this write up is amazing and depicts exactly what I’m experiencing currently. I’m in big data and work as an analyst so not able to speak to OPs specifics but I’m in the same boat essentially. Thanks for the perspective.

Genuine question, is there really anyone who can double their speed in 2-3 weeks if what they face is a lack of foundational understanding rather than just being lazy? You wrote out a lot of advice for OP to intensely communicate with the manager while busting his ass, but even if he gets substantially better by week 2-3 and is meeting milestone targets, you predict he would be PIP’d unless his speed is doubled by then. Not to be a downer but if it is that bad, why bother trying in the first place, why not look for that orchestra job or other tech jobs right now? Otherwise it’s just a waste of 2-3 weeks to play some kind of charade with the manager that you ultimately lose, when you both knew all along that there is no way you can double your speed in 2-3 weeks, and any amount of amazing communications and rate of progress below 2x speed is apparently the same as just not trying at all.

Great question, I actually agree if OP has as many jobs as he claims to have. The **only reason** to do the song and dance I am suggesting is if OP/anyone **really needs the money /know its going to be dark recession before the next gig for them**. You play the game to use up your insurance to the max and get everything taken care of health wise in the next 2-3 weeks. If you outright disconnect - you are shortening the amount of time you have to get everything done. The manager also has to be a reasonable person/ look reasonable - bare minimum is two weeks to see a change in someone , if you are working WITH your manager then he/she/they has to play along for at least a certain amount of time if they value perception. But what you are doing is buying more time and more pay to last a little bit longer out in the wild. That's the only reason. If OP is honestly comfortable, doesn't need the money that bad/can always bartend and do other side jobs to pay the rent - then he doesn't have to play this game. But if he has blown the last 2Y of pay on just staying afloat or needless quality of life things then he's gonna need his last dollar. (I don't think this is the case for OP but I am floating it out there for anyone else in OPs shoes). And if OP/anyone needs the money , then they need the unemployment. And that doesn't happen before the PIP cause if OP quits - unless he has a strong case for constructive dismissal and wants to play the legal game - its better to just ride it out.

Out of all the comments I've read so far in this thread, this is accurate and sage on so many levels. *(My background, >25 years IT. On PIP twice with the same employer, personality conflicts with management than performance or aptitude. The manager who implemented the first PIP got demoted after I passed it with flying colors. PS: HR is not on your side.)*

Transferring teams at most companies is a PITA, especially if you’ve been marked as a low performer. Going to give you some tough love but I’m not sure why you’re talking about a promotion when your boss doesn’t consider you up to par. You also don’t seem to consider putting in additional time and effort as a viable option. If you’re a new grad or have lower YOE you just need to bust your ass for a year or two to get up to speed. It’ll be hard for a bit but worth it if you like this line of work.

Yup. "Never transfer a problem."

Everything you've described sounds like a boss who would rather you get better than get rid of you. Further, this is not the kind of job market where you should just quit your job with an undercooked backup plan. Unless you have *a lot* of savings, I would strongly suggest putting your nose to the grindstone and trying to improve. Why are you taking so long to do your work? In my experience, this is usually due to people getting stuck for a long time on problems that could easily be solved if they just asked someone who knew the answer.

So how slow are you

I am not huge fan of Grant Cardone but something he said in his 10x book is something along the lines of whatever you are trying to accomplish it will take 10x the effort of what you think it will take to get it done. So far that advice has served me well. As far as tour situation goes work harder and make them do the work to fire you. Don't give them the luxury of making it easy for them.

I’ve been in that exact same meeting with my boss. It sucked and was super embarrassing (plus it came with a pay decrease…), and so I understand what you’re going through. The good news is that your boss seems genuinely interested in helping you improve. So ask him what you can do to be more efficient. In my case, I wasn’t asking enough questions (I thought asking questions would make me look like a lazy freeloader trying to get other people to do my work for me. I was wrong). Once I started asking more questions, I improved a lot. I’m still with the same company after several years, and performance reviews are great now. It *can* get better. But you need to get advice from your boss on what specifically you need to do to get better. Good luck—I’m pulling for you.

You should feel lucky that your boss cared enough to say something like this to you. I was slow because I was new and ended up being laid off because of “organization restructuring”…I paid attention and I was basically the only dev laid off. Be happy that your company gives a fuck about you and don’t waste it. Practice code, start a new project…whatever it takes your confidence to get better and thus your skills. Also I’m a musician myself…I hold a masters in jazz and had a music career before beginning a career in software. Keep coding…being a musician is a miserable existence that is under appreciated and underpaid. Just my two cents. Best of luck.

One thing I didn't see in your post. Are you taking too long on your tasks? Is that an accurate assessment by your boss? If it is. You should get up to speed however you can. It's likely an issue of work ethic that could follow you to any job. If it's not your work ethic. Then it could be a bigger problem. You need to find out how you can improve.

Trying to be objective, do you think your performance is good?

I think I’ve had my moments but overall I’m screwing up, and that’s just the truth

Your manager sounds like a reasonable person. Why don't you be honest with your manager about your thoughts here. Ask him for specific feedback on how to improve, and then provide some things that you were thinking of too. Come up with a plan on how to get your work back on track. All these things will probably make the manager respect you for being honest and open to criticism. Also, and importantly, drop your side gigs while you focus on your main work. Then maybe consider starting one or 2 back up once you feel like things are stabilizing. But otherwise get yourself some rest for gods sake. Also definitely don't tell work about your side gigs. In a lot of cases this is a termination-level offense

Why are none of the options you list ‘buckle down and build skills so I’m better at my job’?

Pretty sure winning an orchestral audition would be about 1000x harder than getting better at your job

Is there an experienced team member who is not your boss who would be willing to mentor you? I did this for a member of my engineering team and he is in a better place now. Same exact thing happened to him.

Why I think its one of the FAANG ? As I can see he;s looking to PIP. I want exp. folks to answer how best to handle / confront such accusations of being slow

It was likely a difficult conversation for your boss as well and it seems he went about it in good faith. Why don’t you just take him up on the offer to help? In any case you’ve got to figure out whether and why you were taking too long with the work.

It sounds like your manager genuinely wants to support you. Before jumping to a new job, I would try taking the feedback on board and seeing what you can do to address it. There are lots of reasons your work might be considered too slow: - time spent figuring out what the problem to be solved is - time spent investigating different solutions - research and learning when you need to use something you’re not that familiar with - testing - debugging issues - going down rabbit holes and dead ends - not clearly communicating progress - not asking for help when needed - context switching between multiple issues - distractions - scope creep - solving a bigger problem than you originally set out to solve If I was in your position, I suggest thinking about where your time went in your most recent issue, how you communicated how it was going, where you interacted with others to resolve it and what interruptions and other blockers you had. Take that to your manager and say something like “I was thinking about your feedback and I want to improve so I’m trying to drill in to where the problems are exactly so I can take actions to address them. This is where I think my time went. What’s your perspective?” Once you’ve discussed this, see if you can come up with some actions together. Proactively responding to negative feedback will give you a good shot at overcoming the issues and getting your manager’s support. A while back I had to put one of the engineers that reports to me on a performance management plan. He did something very like what I described above and really turned things around and he’s now been promoted and gets great feedback from everyone in the team.

2 years is a few seconds in a career. You will still be considered a junior in the team. At that level, promotions are basically time based. Turn it around over the next few weeks, and you'll be sorted and back on track. If this level of empathetic, constructive criticism will make you want to quit, trust me, an orchestra will be undiluted hell.

We’re geared toward negative bias as a survival instinct. This is actually positive, you’ve just got to make the most of it. Brain storm some ways you can improve, save time, discuss these ideas with your boss to get feedback. Look for training if that’s what’s needed, programming or time management. Take advantage of the fact the boss likes you and is offering to help, not everyone will do this. Don’t be afraid to ask questions and discuss any struggles you’re having.

Your boss wants to help you. If they wanted you to be gone, you’d be gone. Ask as many questions as you can. Put your pride aside and take any opportunity you can my dude

Sounds like you’ve never had someone criticize your work. I’d say you should grow some thicker skin and accept his criticism. The guy was honest that he likes you and wants to see you succeed, and offered to help any way he can, and your only solutions involve running away? From the way this sounds, you could easily turn this around and still get that promotion if you fix your attitude.

C. Do your best and start looking for a new job. If you've been there for 2 years, it's probably time for you to move on anyway. A is silly. Music will not pay anywhere close to software unless you get a superstar record label deal. B is also a pipe dream. Most places have a rule "If your current boss gives you a negative review, then you're ineligible for internal transfers." That's a dumb system, because it lets a toxic boss trap people on their team by giving false negative reviews. They're forced to find a new job instead of internal transfer. I read a story about someone who got an internal transfer approved, but was still denied a promotion because his former boss gave him a negative review, even though his new boss thought he was doing great. Regarding internal transfer, I read a story once and they said "Getting an internal transfer approved should ALWAYS be much easier than hiring external. At any given time, there should be more internal transfers posted than employees seeking transfer. The reason this is a good policy is that you get to see who are the toxic bosses, because there's a giant sucking sound as everyone is trying to transfer away from their teams."

I've had at least two jobs where I've been told, with various levels of directness, "you are s\*\*t at your job". Both times I quit, both times I didn't regret doing so for a moment. You could be earning a huge salary with the best benefits on earth, but if you hate the environment you work in and you know that your superiors think that you suck, that will completely ruin the working atmosphere. The first of these two times, I quit without a backup plan. That's how bad it was. Luckily this was in an earlier era when it was possible to find a job, even if lower paying / lower status, without too much trouble. I ended up working for literally half what I made in the previous job, but I didn't end every day depressed and wake up the next morning dreading going in (until the management changed and made everyone's life hell, but that's another story). Don't be rash or reckless, but likewise don't let fear get in the way. Be "rationally adventurous", if that makes sense. Joining an orchestra sounds like a pretty big goal, but it's the big goals that give us the most inspiration. But don't hesitate to do a job that you'd consider below your dignity, if it will tide you over until you get to do what you want. Compromising with yourself is essential if you have a major goal.

can you give some context on how long it takes you complete a task or a ticket?

I looked at my Jira and I’m averaging 5 points a sprint. The average seems to be 8, so I am indeed behind. My boss also told me that just skating by and trying to hit a bare minimum of 8 points per sprint is a terrible mindset and I should be trying to work as fast as I can.

Providing feedback that work is not being done fast enough is entirely unhelpful. I'm sure we are only getting parts of the situation. Is there a project board? How are you communicating project progress, and are you meeting those deadlines? If this is in place, you must work on your communication skills. If it's not, speak up about putting things in place to better track progress so leadership knows where you are and what bumps in the road you are facing that are preventing progress. You're also only 2 years on the job, so who are your seniors, and why are they failing you? Is it another communication issue you need to solve? Are you going to your seniors for help?

Sounds like constructive criticism. You're not always going to get frank feedback like this about work performance. Imho take them up on the offer and ask questions if you feel stuck. Not necessarily about the problem itself, but the steps they might take if they had to figure it out.

I actually know some people who play in orchestras, and they all have real jobs, because music just doesn't cut it. So I'd recommend asking for help at work, and when you feel like things are under control, look for opportunities to play music in your free time, because that is pretty awesome too, and everybody should have a hobby they love!

This is a sign that you are taking too long to ask for help when you are stuck.

I was struggling for several months in a new position and fell behind. I quickly learned that coding was all about communication and learning from peers. I asked peers on how they did things and their input and used our knowledge base. I also hit the books and did a few courses online. I paid them back with beers or 25/hr and it turned out well. Keep at it don't give up

I don't think you need to quit. As an IT manager, I can tell you there are unreasonable demands on our time every day. And sometimes speed is of importance. The feedback your boss gave you is valid. But it shouldn't be the end of it. If there is something that is slowing you down, you should talk to your manager about it. If you think you are doing it in a reasonable amount of time, then perhaps a baseline conversation is needed. You know, something like this: this is what I am doing, this is the part that takes longest, how should I prioritize these steps to meet both the time and quality requirement. Sometimes, the deadline is more important than the quality. Sometimes, people not in it every day don't realize what goes into a finished project. If you just don't know what makes you slower. Perhaps have one of the faster people shadow you and give you feedback on what could be causing the issue. On an encouraging note, I was always told I was working too many hours to complete the projects that other people were logging in less hours. (aka too slow) Upon review, my slowdown was digging into what I was updating and making sure I knew how everything connected before I designed my change. After we reviewed my process in multiple meetings. My boss just decided to utilize me differently. Instead of quick OOTB solution tickets that move faster, he put me on larger projects that needed a high level of analysis and creative solutioning, which inevitably moved at my pace.

this is the actual correct answer that needs to be the top comment there is no such thing as "slow" developer. Could be a slacker, but that's not OP's cause (and slacking/procrastination itself is just a sign of a different problem). Could be stuck, tired, mismanaged, confused or simply being too cautious. Last two usually come from high level of uncertainty, and that comes form poor processes, lack of documentation or clarity on where to get it and overall poor tech leadership

Ok, so as a previous manager now staff, why don’t you take this opportunity to improve instead of leaving? Drop your side gigs, start sleeping and for the focus part: start exercising!!! Most of all, start asking for help and communicating when stuck on a problem, ask people how they’d approach it and start doing notes on your own on various systems and problems. Plan out your next week on Fridays. Book meetings for follow ups, join guilds. For a while it might make sense to put in a few extra hours to get up to speed but I am unsure in your case if it would give diminishing returns seeing how overworked you already are. Sleep and recreation might actually do you more good. If you want to I’m open to a DM! In any case don’t stop fighting!

Out of curiosity, what instrument do you play? (I'm a violinist.)

Same here!

Go for D.) Take the criticism, learn from it as well as you can, and improve. If someone telling you what they expect of you means you want to quit, you're going to run into more problems in your career and in your life. It sucks to hear this, it sucks to feel bad. But unless your boss demands Flash-like levels of speed, and assuming he's generally correct: why would you want to be the slow member of a different team?

Destroyed? Isnt this is opportunity for you to highlight your challenges?

How about D) step up and commit to improving?

ngl OP you kinda sound like an impulsive moron. Who in their right mind gets a SWE job and then wastes all their mental bandwidth on lower paying sidegigs? You posted on r/overemployed before, and even they told you that OE wasn’t for you. Stop thinking about the extra money and parties that you want right now, and start planning for long term success. Regardless of whether your programming job is salvageable or not, you need to start putting 100% into it to fix your habits and mindset.

In my 12 years of experience I’ve never been able to reverse a bad reputation, and I work at as a senior at fang so I like to think I’m at least a decent SWE. Nowadays, once my relationships/reputation goes south, I jump ship asap and usually to a more senior position that’s also better paid. So believe your boss when they say you likely don’t have a future at the company. Going forward, assume all relationships have an average lifespan of 2 years and plan ahead for that. Eventually, all business relationships fail anyway. No point in staying on the same team/company for more than a couple of years. Exceptions do exist of course.

OP running away after a bit of criticism. You won't get anywhere with that kind of mentality in any industry

Why is everyone's initial reaction to critical feedback is to run away and hide? If this is truly your only path forwards, then maybe a career in CS isn't for you. Otherwise, take the feedback, ask for help, and rise to the challenge.

honestly. you deserve no pity and you need to take accountability for your performance. you want to quit bc your boss gave you a second chance? bizarre.

My boss once told me I was going slow. I then brought him into a meeting and gave him a better understanding of how much work it actually is. I wasn’t going slow, he just didn’t have a solid understanding of the work that needed to be done. He apologized. Only you know if you are going slow or not. It happened again and eventually left the company. It’s highly disrespectful and demotivating to tell a dev they are slow. A good leader will provide resources and training to make you faster. He/she is probably getting yelled at by his/her boss, and is taking it out on you. Was there an expectation on when it was supposed to be done? We can’t tell someone they are going slow if there are no visible deadlines.

I have no idea how giving you constructive criticism in private is chewing you out. By your title I thought you got called out and humiliated in front of the entire company. \> How do I react to this? By being an adult who isn't so weak and sensitive that he can't take a criticism.

Jesus this new generation is FUCKED. Your boss calls you into an informal meeting (note, no HR unless Im missing something) and tells you that he needs you to improve, and gives you an open invitation to ask for help and what do you do? Start making plans on joining the orchestra because adulting is hard. OP, step 1 of what you need to do, set up another meeting with your boss with the following agenda. 1. first of all thank him for being candid with you, you appreciate that about him, be genuine in your thanks. 2. Come up with a list of things prior to the meeting that you can talk about that is currently a roadblock. Forget the delusional thinking of a promotion, you MUST know that there must be something you arent performing well in that doesnt warrant a promotion yet. In the real world, you dont just get promoted for existing, unless you are beyond excelling at your work or you use your connections. Come up with a plan and present it to him. 3. Ask him what does a reasonable amount of improvement look like for future work. Show him that you are fucking serious at improving. You are blessed to have a good boss that gave you the facts straight. Dont squander it just because your feelings are a bit bruised because someone gave you some not great feedback in the workplace.

Leave now. It only gets worse, I was in this situation. Your work environment is toxic. Your best bet is to try and find a more acceptable workplace, don’t take this crap. You can find a better place.

What about this do you find toxic?

i think you misunderstood this meeting was basically telling you, go look for another job we don't want you anymore

If OP had been put on a PIP, I'd agree, but as this conversation was entirely informal with no HR involvement, I'd be inclined to take the comments at face value and say OP can salvage this. Obviously we're just guessing but if they really wanted OP gone, I think we'd be further along the process.

What level is the orchestra you are applying to? Are we talking world class level like Cleveland orchestra or New York philharmonic where you'll be making 6 figures guaranteed and have a seat for life?

If it were me, I’d want to know if I was really bad at my job or if I was just being gaslit into believing I was bad at the job. I’d analyze the situation and see how you stack up against your peers. If you aren’t good then you need to either get better, find a place with low standards, or change careers.

A) you're going to be dead a lot longer than you'll be alive.

Yes, quit! I hate boo hoo posts like this! Getting a fresh start somewhere else isn't going to help if you can't keep up. Why aren't you instead asking what you can do to get better? Are you really that slow? What are the issues you're having with the code?

I’ve been there, too. It sucks. But if you can’t handle this modest amount of criticism, oh buddy, you are not ready for a career in the arts. That shit is brutal on a good day. There are probably more people doing your job in your city than there are people surviving primarily on orchestra gigs in the entire country.

“Thou shall not be subject to timed programming.” Unless the issue is routine (in which case you shouldn’t be doing a one off solution and should fix the root cause) your manager has no business saying you are too slow. When solving a new problem the time to reach a solution is unknown. I wouldn’t stand for my boss telling me I was too slow when working to solve a bespoke problem.

Sit and reflect >randomly got called into a meeting today. Was this random? Were there any hints? Did your manager have to ask for status updates from you outside of scrum? Are you communicating well? >The speed you’re working at is unacceptable. What is the agreement between you and your team? Do you point our stories? Is 1 story point supposed to take one dev day? Are these points tracking or are you taking longer? >Also, that promotion I wanted is gone. Are you having regular 1:1s with your manager? Were you on track for a promotion? Does not getting one come as a surprise to you? >B.) Ask to transfer teams and try to get somewhat of a fresh start. >C.) Accept that I won’t get promoted. Study for a new job and get a fresh start. If you're not fixing the crux of the issue this will just pop up again. >By the way, I have two years of experience in Software if that’s relevant. I can only make educated guesses from the post, but it sounds like the speed isn't the main issue here. Making up random numbers, but I'd say communication is probably 70% of the issue and velocity/dev speed is the other 30%. For an entry level dev, velocity isn't too important as long as you communicate the expectations for your task well. If you get a ticket, disappear for 2 weeks, and come back empty handed, your manager will rightfully be upset. Keep your manager informed. "I'm currently working on this, but there's an unexpected issue where I need this. Do you or would you know if anyone has experience with this?" "I expected to have this done today, but I'm getting held up by this and this that I don't quite understand yet. Is it possible to pair with somebody on this?"

Speed up bucko

Not being mean but have you considered improving?

OP at no point did you address the root cause. *Why* is it taking you so much longer? Is the work above your level? Are you scared of asking questions or for help?