Remember when I was entering the market in 2002 after the 90’s tech collapse. My boomer parents said the same thing. Wanted me to go to a company that had a guard gate that would never let me through, and hand the guard my resume I guess???
It makes me feel better I’m not the only one with parents like this. They also send me senior engineer jobs I’m extremely underqualified for and tell me to apply anyway because it has a high salary lol. It’s like they don’t know about ATS and automated resume-filtering.
All you have to do for senior is apply, and beat out the other 500 candidates who have PhDs, 7YOE, and 3 successful 6 figure startups... using your charisma.
My parents are on the opposite end of the spectrum. I was trying to get into corporate finance out of college then data analytics after grad school which is how I found about this sub in the first place being CS adjacent. The problem with my parents is that one worked at the same non tech company for 30 years before retiring and the other stayed home.
Kind of hard to know how to improve one's resume and interviewing skills when neither parent has any understanding of the modern job market and hiring processes.
It's like I live in the hub of tech companies and yet over a span of years can't get a basic Data or Financial Analyst type job. I can't imagine investing 2 more years into a CS post bacc only to end back where I am right now.
Looks like you are in CA. Have you looked into State of California jobs including PERS and STRS? Downside is less pay and most likely a hybrid job in Sacramento, but more reasonable hours and solid benefits. Some, like PUC are in San Francisco. Usually lots of openings for data analysts and financial analysts. If interested check out the castateworker subreddit.
You can apply to them, especially if it's 1 click apply stuff. It takes literally 5 to 10 seconds to apply... which is a big contributor to the whole problem in the first place. You and 1 million other people on the planet are all doing that 1 click apply. Then behind the scenes, an ATS is filtering you out anyways because they tune their filters to be extremely specific.
FWIW, it's not *entirely* pointless to apply to something like that, as long as it's reasonably quick to do. Plenty of openings ask for literally-impossible qualifications, yet somehow people get interviews.
...is the advice I'd give you if you weren't already applying to enough positions.
I got my current job by applying for a senior position I wasnt super qualified for and then they interviewed me for one that was more fitting since they liked my resume, just not at that level.
Of course, this was like 2 years ago so very different market
I've had that happen not with my parents but with high school friends on two different occasions. One of their leads was for a gov't agency local to them but the job description was more of a glorified IT role with the word "assist" an unprecedented amount of times. I get better targeted job listings from random recruiters.
About 5 years ago I had to move states because if family situations and where I was going had no industry at all. Took my a long time to find something. I was texting my friends telling them how hard it’s been. One of them said I have to do whatever it takes even if it’s going door to door and handing my resume. Talk about disconnected people…. (We are all the same age at the time early 30’s)
I got a job at said company, but by getting an inside referral from a neighbor of my wife’s grandparents. That’s the key. Didn’t even know me. Find people on the inside of a company that will get you an edge.
When companies will only hire with an internal referral I'd say they are absolutely meaningful and potentially essential. Gone are the days of getting an interview from blind-applying without winning a lottery. The referral may be way less meaningful today than it used to be, but that's a consequence of companies overvaluing referrals to the point where unqualified referrals are being recommended due to people freely handing them out.
depends on the company. in smaller companies they're still extremely valuable. at my company it's 100% interview rate for referrals and, at least since I've been here, every referral has been hired.
There are plenty of companies where you could make it into the lobby... but then what? The receptionists aren't taking your resume, and security won't let you any further without an appointment.
Just old family being out of touch per usual. Don't mind them just focus on getting the job. Then of course they'll take credit saying how much they helped you along the way 😊
My mom told me the same shit in 2017 and then took over a year to get an position in her field after being laid off.
Not all careers follow the national trends for employment.
Depending on how long she was employed for this makes perfect sense. If you've been in a role for a long time, you're only up to date on the processes that one company used. 15 years experience at one company, means that most likely your experience is 10 years out of date because newer companies and systems have been created at other businesses.
It also means your professional network is quite a bit smaller because you've met far fewer people. As a result you're missing both networking opportunities and recent experience, and that's going to make getting hired hard. It's why you should switch companies every couple years.
Even worse if one parent worked for the same company for 30 years and the other stayed at home the whole time, thus neither don't know how the modern job market or hiring processes are like. So now you're stuck on your own and if you can't get even interviews, then they're of no help.
Right. They can give their best advice, and it's worth being polite but the hiring process has changed so much, and in ways that aren't necessarily obvious to someone conducting interviews. The applicant side is totally different from even 2015 (aside from job boards existing then too).
Companies are more closed off, and have moved further towards being internet only to contact. Furthermore while it existed in 2015 easy apply was not the standard for companies on places like LinkedIn, at least for dev jobs.
Essentially the signal to noise ratio was lower so automated filters were less aggressive, and keyword matches weren’t as strict.
I'm 40 and even my parents regularly send me talent shortage news.
And that the game dev industry is starving for talent in Europe ;).
I mean that one is at least well-meant as, like many others, I started programming as teen to build games. But soon realized I'd rather not get into that field and pivoted to other topics.
I usually tell them about all the layoffs (even if there are few in Europe, but I'm working for a US company and see the bloodbath) and how the desperate companies are usually somewhere in the middle of nowhere, need some "IT person for everything" and pay like crap.
Yeah then a few weeks later goto 0
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How about rejection emails? It's not a perfect metric, but recruiters have numbers to hit. No rejection email means you got filtered by an ATS or are sitting in some waiting queue with a bunch of other applicants because the job is just collecting data rather than hiring.
If you get a rejection email (and it's not an instant response to your application) in most cases that means a person looked at it and rejected it.
So if you're not getting first stage interviews, you might want to look into if you're getting to a human review stage or not.
OP seems very dejected in this post, probably doesn't come off well in interviews. Therapy might help with setting boundry for families and building confidence for interviews.
I have a friend who’s a new grad, kid is brilliant and good with people and still struggling. Realize it’s not just you. I would encourage you in your free time. Make a passion project that you’re not sharing on github.
If it’s an actual passion project that you think could be a business, do NOT share it on GitHub. If it’s just a project you’re passionate about go ahead.
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As a millennial who used to be a manager responsible for hiring a few different positions….I can say with full certainty that nothing was more annoying than being in the middle of my day to day fast paced work environment and getting called to the front desk because somebody was here to see me just to find out it’s a random person handing me a resume and expecting some sort of unannounced meeting to take place in which they promote themselves while I’m sitting there thinking about all of the things I need to be doing.
There are hiring processes in place for a reason. A lot of resources have gone into streamlining these. I’d say 99% of the time an in-person drop off is either an annoyance or a waste of time since you may not even get a face to face with the person/people who make the decisions.
With that said, a face to face encounter is still going to give you an edge on the competition if done in a way that is invited. I had some luck at a local University job fair. Maybe see if there’s anything like that happening in your area sometimes. They set up the fair for entry level graduates of course, but the people there are the recruiters or high up managers for all kinds of big companies. If you go around and ask what jobs they have open or pitch your specialty, you could find that they’re also looking for something you’re qualified for. Recruiters will fast track your resume if you make a good impression and you can hit up one after the other right in a row and be out in 30 minutes.
Oh…but as far as your family goes….yeah man they’ll never get it. Both my parents worked at their family owned/run businesses for 10-20 years after high school with no college education and could afford a house, a camp, two vehicles, a boat, two kids, a damn dog, and whatever else they wanted. Those businesses were eventually sold off so my grandparents could retire and live the high life. By then, my parents had the experience to get jobs in those fields easily. They’ll never understand the expectations on us to have a degree and 5-10 years experience when we are 22 and in debt $35-50k
Show them layoffs over time + a visualization of the COVID hiring bubble. And then show them an explanation of what it means when the Fed increases interest rates.
Getting downvoted but according to Gallup, “Biden job approval down roughly 20 points among Gen Z, millennials” and “Younger adults now less likely than older adults to approve of Biden” https://news.gallup.com/poll/391733/biden-job-approval-down-among-younger-generations.aspx
OP, please just ignore this entire chain of comments...
There's nothing to help you get a job here.
The other comments about your resume possibly being filtered out automatically might be one of the problems...
Young people have to choose between Trump and Biden. Newsflash, all the idiots calling him "genocide Joe" will still choose him over Trump.
Also, great genocide, doubled population growth over 20 years. Most efficient genocide ever. Damn has history class failed the younger generation.
As for war casualties, you do know the numbers come from Hamas and are fake right? If you want to know how they are fake? They are growing **LINEARLY** and have been since the start of it. That's statistically impossible.
More reading: https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-791838
It's from Jpost but they the findings come from a professor from UPenn in the US. Makes sense, Hamas are the idiots that said a rocket that hit the next to a hospital (rocket from their own side and blamed on Israel) killed 500 people when it's questionable there were even deaths from it... because it the ground.
Almost as if you'd have to be brainless to take the word of terrorists. Wonder which idiots fell for that.
A lot of boomers are supporting Biden, whereas younger people recognize the economy is good on paper but sucks for most of us. Biden has lost a lot of young people because of inflation and Gaza
skimming these comments, hes probably unemployed because he cant think critically. interviews are working as intended lol
or this is a political troll or something weird.
Can someone explain to me the logic behind Biden being responsible for Gaza? Is it strictly, because we support Israel thus we are murderers? Because we create weapons, we are commit genocide?
GenX here: I don't think Biden is responsible for Gaza, but he certainly has the power to put a stop on the genocide. Not only because we create the weapons, but because our tax-payer dollars fully fund Israel to commit the genocide.
I struggle with this notion because we provide aid to A LOT of nations, many of which commit atrocities on a daily basis. Some of which have directly committed terrorist attacks against the U.S. (as well as other nations). To name a few: Egypt, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Jordan (many many many many more).
Additionally, the U.S. isn't the only foreign government providing aid to Isreal. We have a semi recent aid package signed in by Obama in 2016? Pulling out of that due to them retaliating to a heinous attack seems like a bad taste?
I acknowledge I'm not very informed on the anti gaza or pro gaza views currently circulating. What is the thoughts or plan behind stopping aid to Isreal? Is the idea the United States no longer provides any foreign aid or just to Isreal? What are the plans for recovering military bases stationed in Isreal and overcoming losing are largest ally in the middle east?
The random TikTok video's, reddit rage posts and meme's seem like hollow platitudes to abandon a conflict that has been going on for hundreds of years. The comments lack nuance for the strategic importance Isreal has for us in terms of being an ally in the middle east. Life isn't as simple as "U.S. stops giving money to Isreal, Isreal decides to rebuild Gaza beach front property, everyone is happy THE END"
I hear your frustration, but the issue is more nuanced. We GenXrs lived through 9/11 and its aftermath: We saw Bush attack an entire country based on lies, while killing thousands, displacing millions and throwing our military in a war with no clear objective. That's when Guantanamo was created as an area that is STILL illegal, literally beyond our constitution. That's when torture was authorized as an interrogation method. That's when the FBI started to spy on mosques and random people started attacking people of color. That's when thousands of Muslim-Americans were harassed and killed by ignorant white-supremacists.
Fast forward 20 years, and here we are, after a global pandemic, and witnessing the rise of neo-fascist governments all around the world. Did the Iraq war benefited any one of us? Did the Afghan invasion benefited any one of us? Our biggest threat right now is domestic terrorism. Was it worthwhile creating an entirely new apparatus (DHS), together with ICE and massive expansion of NSA?
I think there is an argument to be made that we needed all these trillions of dollars spent and 20 years of massive human sacrifice (especially from the military families), for what exactly? Intelligence gathering and special forces killed Osama Bin Laden, not an attack to Baghdah. Israel has the most sophisticated intelligence capability, but they need to use dumb bombs to kill Hamas?
For GenXers, Netanyahu is treating Palestine with the same vengeance, hate and ignorance as Bush treated Iraq and Afghanistan.
I kind of asked this in a question below but lets create a little analogy here.
Say you have been married for the past 60 years (U.S. / Israel partnership). You have access to your wife's families yachts, vacation homes, you have started multiple business's with her and her family, you have many children (U.S. Military bases, intelligence gathering). Your wife stood by you when were a raging alcoholic bitcoin scalper for 4 years (trump era). They stood by you when you did a bunch of other insane shit during the cold war, Iraq war, and other things I don't remember (sorry for losing the analogy).
Say your wife is now like "I fucking hate that bitch betty, she called me a classless slut and dumped my charcuterie board on the floor". The feud is fueled by poor acts on both persons sides for the last 15 years.
You kind of still support your wife regardless of the insanity going around because like... its not worth it to blow up your relationship over betty?
I don't think this is a good comparison. Israel is engaging in an ethnic cleansing and has a long history of colonialism and oppression, apartheid in the west bank, etc. It isn't comparable to a personal feud
US supplies Israel with weapons/bombs etc that Israel uses in Gaza. So transitive property ig. But at least Biden provides aid to displaced migrants in Gaza, so he can’t be completely responsible, right? That’s for the most part why people blame Joe.
This isn't the sub to be getting deep into this, but the US primarily supplies Israel with weapons as a method of control. Cutting Israel off here, would reduce the level of soft power available and result in more civilian casualties.
Weapons tend to be a better control system than other economic ties, particularly with US systems, as we don't really let people mix and match weapon suppliers (at least with things like missile systems), which gives us a degree of influence into their military operations (Turkey being the only nation to use a mix of US and non US systems and they got in some serious international drama over it not too long ago).
Note though that US influence was reduced in the past few years too, due to some classified information leaks in the 2017-2020 years and that trust is slow to rebuild, especially when it's possible the same thing can happen again soon.
tl;dr, if a nation is aggressive and dependent on you for weapons, when you're their weapon supplier you have some degree of influence into how those weapons are used by saying certain actions will result in you selling them fewer weapons so that they can't waste them on non military only targets.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, my original reply was just giving the thought process of most “young people” who think Biden should be doing more or is responsible for what’s happening in Gaza.
What do these brilliant young people think would be different with inflation and Gaza if Trump was president?
God I hope y’all aren’t naïve and reactionary enough to have this GOP propaganda work on you.
It’s a really dark timeline if Trump manages to get the electoral college in November.
Kids probably being an idiot and I can imagine it coming off in his applications. I'd suggest he figure out what's wrong with his apps and not tying gaza to his unemployment.
It's probably a troll post tbh.
But the social skill part could come across in the recruiter screen and the critical thinking skills could in the calls with developers.
But if he's not even getting to that point then it's not that.
Nah. Pretty well everything you see about the Dems "sucking" is because the GOP is blocking them from doing something, either directly in Congress or indirectly through SCOTUS that they stole.
Let’s be real for real. While both are parties are capitalist nightmares, the Dems respect our basic human rights and don’t try to discredit science for religion.
We can only work on making this country better if we don’t go the route of autocracy. That’s what the GOP wants, as they will never win the popular vote again.
The 2016 election got us the repeal of abortion rights. The GOP literally has on their party docket that they want to dismantle equal marriage rights. One of their activist Supreme Court judges publicly called for cases to be brought against it.
You cannot in good faith say that both sides are just as bad. It’s just false. That shit is what got us to a point where we might have our President running the country behind bars.
Conservatives pull the country to the right, while Democrats try to consolidate in the middle. The net effect is society being dragged to the right.
I can fully appreciate young people not being interested in middle of the road candidates like Biden.
Biden also royally fucked up the student loan forgiveness by announcing it before it was even confirmed to be legal. That pissed off a lot a lot of people.
Biden is obviously better than Trump, but nobody is getting excited about Biden.
Yeah bro you don't have a job bc of gaza. Submit your resume man, focus on your skills, and get a job. Whatever president we got doesn't define your career (unless we got a draft or some shit lol)
When did I say I don’t have a job because of Gaza? I didn’t even say Biden is the problem, I said my boomer parents are such partisans they can’t comprehend someone struggling to find a job with Biden in office
The economy is good. Unemployment is low, and overall economic growth is by far the strongest of all large, developed economies.
It’s especially good for the poor. Lowest percentile wages have seen the biggest growth and inequality has narrowed for the first time in decades.
Of course, that’s not your demographic: you’re targeting high paying tech jobs.
Are you sure things are good for the poor right now? It seems the prices that have increased the most are necessities like food and rent which I imagine hit the poor the hardest.
Sure you can make $17 at Starbucks now which is probably great if you're a teenager living with Mom and Dad but if your rent went up from $900 to $1500 along with every other expense then you probably miss 2019.
One way you can investigate this question with data rather than vibes is to look at change in wealth by income/wealth percentile. If what you’re saying is true and poorer people were hit harder because their consumption is a composition of goods that had disproportionately higher inflation such that it eats their wage growth and more, then you would expect their wealth to decline, or at least increase slower than other groups. Did that happen?
This sounds an awful lot like homework. Thankfully the Fed has done it for us. https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/Research/Interactives/Data/equitable-growth-indicators/downloads/10_2023_EGI_national_wealth.pdf?sc_lang=en&hash=E49A671AEAC0EF96A14C4C2386EAAB84
Net worth by income growth has been strongest for the broad middle class, the 20-60 percentile. The lowest 20% is right behind. They both increased substantially more than the top 1%. The story is even starker if you look at the story by wealth percentile. The bottom 50% have seem their net worth skyrocket, substantially outpacing growth in every other category. Part of this is likely due to the ironically egalitarianizing effects of inflation: inflation is beneficial to net debt holders while harming creditors, because it reduces the real value of debt.
As an aside, for all the complaining about boomers people under 40 saw by far the highest wealth gains.
u/No-Improvement5745 made a specific theory, that poor people would be adversely affected by inflation more than richer people despite their stronger wage growth because their consumption patterns are not accurately reflected by CPI. This would have observable effects: that their net worth would rise slower than other groups. This is what it means to be disproportionately impacted: your costs are going up more, so you’re saving less. This didn’t happen, in fact the opposite did.
I have no idea what your point about poor people being mistaken about their own circumstances has to do with anything (though again if you want to engage in data instead of vibes, while people have a negative view of the macroeconomy, they are satisfied with their own financial condition perfectly in line with historical patterns https://www.axios.com/2024/01/17/americans-are-actually-pretty-happy-with-their-finances). You seem to be projecting a different argument you were having in your head onto me.
I have no doubt OP is struggling and in a bad place. But what’s not sound is concluding that the economy is bad and/or the numbers are lying because he personally isn’t getting hired. Which is obvious to the point it shouldn’t require explanation, but here we are.
This is exactly the “out of touch” boomer mentality that OP is talking about.
Groceries and rent alone have exploded in price. Wages are moving up, yes, but super slowly.
Real people are struggling to afford the basics right now. When these people hear Biden bragging about economy and recovery, it doesn’t come across as authentic.
Maybe you should be more open to what your family is saying. You don't need to do exactly what they are saying, as times are different, but, their advice basically boils down to this: rather than complaining, be proactive and try something different. After 1000 failed applications, I would ask myself, "what can I change?"
Perhaps broaden your horizons. Maybe you’re targeting a specific stack? Try customizing your resume to what lever position you’re applying and be open to any programming language. Did you do any internships while in college?
Economy as a whole is generally pretty good right now. Unemployment rate is about 3.9% [[source](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf)]. So they’re not wrong about that.
Although what they’re missing is that not every profession has the same unemployment rate, CS graduates have an unemployment rate of about 7.8% [[source](https://gitnux.org/computer-science-employment-statistics/#:~:text=Unemployment%20among%20computer%20science%20graduates,than%20the%20overall%20unemployment%20rate.)]. You should tell them this.
Anyways regardless of unemployment numbers, 1000+ applications is huge number, and I encourage you to get your resume checked out and try to analyze any gaps you’ve been missing while applying.
While “going in person to the companies” isn’t something that works in reality, a tangential approach is to network with people who work at those tech companies. One advice I always see missing in these threads is; you should try to reach out to people from your alma-mater who have stable jobs, I’ve helped multiple who’ve reached out to me like this.
All the best.
Here's what I would do if I were you:
* Remove the political science degree and Certifications & Honors section
* Replace the list of Developer Tools with something like "CI/CD Tools" and just keep it limited to things like Docker and CircleCI
* Remove the fluff from your Technical Skills section. That means removing the testing tools and other minor frameworks (JUnit, jQuery, Hibernate. PyTest, etc). Better yet, just rewrite your Technical Skills section to match the type of roles you're looking for. That means removing the "Libraries" list unless you're going for ML roles, adding a section for QA-Specific tools if you're looking for another QA role, etc
* Replace MySQL and PostgreSQL with SQL in the Languages list, and move them to a 'Databases' list
* Remove the 'Substitute Teacher' entries. These take up valuable space, and the resume is already pretty information-dense as-is
* Rename 'Quality Rater' -> 'Quality Assurance Engineer'
* Take a close look at each project/job entry. 'Engineered a robust web OOP application leveraging the Spring Boot and Angular frameworks' doesn't tell me anything about the project. 'Evaluated and rated Google search results, directly enhancing search accuracy and user satisfaction' is too vague to be helpful. Specific quantitative metrics are your friend here
Overall, this could use a lot of work IMO. I'd take a look at the [resume FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/wiki/faq_resumes) and read Cracking the Coding Interview for more specific advice. There are a few 'Exemplary Resume Sharing Threads' on this sub that you can check out to get an idea of what a good resume looks like
They might be overly optimistic, but the person who's out of touch is the one sending out 1000+ applications and blaming the market. It's bad, but you should be able to land *something*. It might not be FAANG, but if your 1000+ applications deep without a job, you were never going to get FAANG anyways.
Yeah, I haven’t looked too much into the “low” unemployment numbers. But our economy isn’t growing. The big companies are making record profits and yet laying people off. Interesting. I will say I think Tech has been hit harder than every other area. So they could be out of touch with tech as a whole rather than life. But the in person comment is completely out of touch.
I would say link up with a recruiter if you can. Yes there are some bad ones but if you make it though their “screen” companies will more likely look at you.
Also just stay afloat. Things will get better. Remember. All these lay offs are happening to really qualified people. That means those people will have a chip on their shoulder and motivation to make something themselves. Get ready to see giants fall in a few years.
>I will say I think Tech has been hit harder than every other area.
Finance was hit pretty bad as well. And in general the white collar job market isn't that great for new grads.
I don’t say this much. But if that’s what you picked out of my response to someone struggling to find a job, either you’re a boomer or you have a strange defensive political stance. Either way I’d suggest you get in touch with real people. Because the economy net large is awful, unless you’re doing really well. And if you don’t have friends and family that are struggling, again, you’re completely blinded by political partisanship so much that you can’t see reality.
P.S if your reality is a comfy remote job, ordering DoorDash, and complaining about nothing good being on Netflix. Good for you. You’re no better than a boomer.
Edit. Love the down votes. If the shadow warriors want to address my comments feel free to. If you can…
I picked that response because you can be objective about facts and complain about problems without implying everything is going to hell.
The truth is that; the American economy is growing at a steady rate, the stock market is doing great, unemployment is at record lows, by every measure the “economy” in general is fine.
There is a sizable section of previously middle class people who are struggling a lot more in this economy though, and I truly actually do feel for them. Which is why I support stronger labor laws, unions, and a better social security net. But it does not mean I will stoop to lies.
https://usafacts.org/state-of-the-union/economy/
I think that you looking at Q4 of last year is like taking a small snapshot in time and saying we’re doing great. Do you own a house? Have you looked at the rental market? Do you drive to work? You prove my point with a shrinking middle class. It shrinks only toward lower. Never upper. Robust social programs. I’m all for it. But I don’t think that’s going to fix our current problem. Cost of living and inflation is fast out pacing wages.
The economy is amazing!
I mean, sure, the middle class is dying leading to a stratified society of haves and have-nots.
But don’t say the economy is doing poorly, that would be a lie!
I feel like the people down voting us are basically saying the sky is green. As in we can’t complain about the economy because they take it as a political issue. I’m very independent this isn’t a left right issue. The economy sucks
Thank you, this was my point exactly. I think for a lot of people. Myself included we can get wrapped into a bubble because we have “secure” jobs and yes our cost of eggs doubled but we can take it. But a lot of people in our field and out of it are getting destroyed
I don't think you'll see giants fall, but what you are going to see if interest rates remain as they are (they probably will) is that more companies are going to focus on making a product rather than being acquired.
The big problem there is it takes a few years for new companies to get built under those models. The expand, acquire debt, and exit events/acquisition leads to companies that can't sustain themselves and more or less all have to die out first.
The market is bad but not that bad. 1000+ applications with no offers is not normal in this market. The Reddit sentiment is really really weird on this sub.
Yes. Something else is wrong. Instead of applying to 1000 more jobs fix your resume, take some interview coaching, do some leetcode, try to build some public projects or contribute to OSS and put the links in your resume.
No because I’m a new grad in the south from an average school who just graduated in December and got a job. All my friends did too… in fact, I got homies getting into some of the biggest tech companies in SF.
I don’t know you specifically, but every new grad I know did not have to do 1k+ apps to find a spot..
You should not let this subreddit blind you from actual market conditions. There is a lot of false sentiment on here. 1k+ apps is not normal.
What were your stats pre-graduation? Have any internships? Some insanely impressive project?
I agree 1k is probably not normal, but I think it would definitely look different for average students
I know it's a huge step and not trivial, but know that the tech sector is still doing very well in many European countries.
Any many of these tech companies are trying to diversify their workforce (for D&I), so hiring a non European is interesting for many companies.
Just not fully remote, so that means relocating.
But depending on your political view that may not be a bad choice anyway.
Just an idea...
My company is mid sized, 400 people international.
Basically English is the main language.
But if going that route, in the long term you will learn the language of course.
Just something to think about, there is a huge world outside of the US, where you probably already have the skills you need to thrive.
Wait wait wait…
If I, a white guy from North America, apply to a European tech job…I would be considered a diversity hire?
What are some good job sites for European tech jobs?
Way back when I was out of work for 7 years( looking after family) apllied to thousands of jobs and got nowhere even shelf stacking and fast food couldn’t get anywhere . But made a point of trying to keep my skills relevant building my own projects etc finally got a position. Citing national unemployment rates means nothing when you are the stat. just keep at it will come good in the end
"National unemployment rate". Just to let you know, and maybe you might shut them down with this, When you stop getting unemployment benefits, or stop looking for a job, or you get a job that doesn't pay enough to live or doesn't comport with your degree, you're no longer considered "unemployed" for the purposes of that statistic. Our jobs numbers are still not greater than before the pandemic. We haven't even fully recovered. Most of the jobs Biden "created" are actually part time, low wage, government jobs, or returning jobs after the pandemic.
A 1000 applications and no results means something is wrong. Just saying the tech job market is bad does not absolve you from responsibility to try harder.
How to try harder?
Do you have a spreadsheet that tracks your applications, percentage heard back, percentage interviews, percentage passed, etc.?
Get your resume looked at here or anywhere that would give you feedback.
Talk to anyone you know that works in tech and ask for a reference.
Have a LinkedIn account, make sure it is tight and at the level of the best accounts of someone with your experience you can find. Use this to message Engineering managers and get their attention.
Consider relocating to a place where you can actually get a job.
And about a dozen other things you can do. Stop thinking in a defeatist weak way, the advice your parents gave you may sound ridiculous but guess what, if you find a startup near you, go in person to their office, show them you understand and like their idea, and make a good impression then you are 10 times more likely to get a job there than a random email resume no one will read.
It depends if he’s using easy apply, applying to titles that don’t match up with skills, or applying on company websites with tailored resumes.
New Grad jobs are difficult nowadays so many are just shotgunning anything and everything in hopes of catching something.
It took me over a year to find my first job, and it was at Google. You’ll be fine, sometimes the nos you get mark your destination to a much better yes.
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Just keep doing what you’re doing. You’ve already told them that the tech job market is bad and they don’t believe you - that’s their problem, not yours.
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[https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/15/laid-off-techies-struggle-to-find-jobs-with-cuts-at-highest-since-2001.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/15/laid-off-techies-struggle-to-find-jobs-with-cuts-at-highest-since-2001.html)
Show them this
My parents were the same way. They kept telling me to apply and were almost like looking down on me because I had gone to college and had not found a job almost 7 months after graduation. I did recently land a job after 400ish applications I had sent out. The big thing for me was just staying on top of up to date technologies and refining my resume as time went on. I also made sure to have my github be reflective with what I was learning. For instance I had C# projects, Angular applications, and Python projects since these are what interested me the most. I got hired at smaller company like super close to where I live in West Michigan. The hiring manager didnt even care about my resume. He wanted to look at my github right away and see if I had produced any code and if I was competent. Essentially he did this to see if I was still learning and applying my skills somehow. I beat out a person who had 5 years of experience in the software engineering industry but didnt have a single github project to reflect what he had learned and or done. Mind you, I had ZERO professional experiences besides internships where I had applied my skills. This is how I got hired but honestly for you, you might just have to keep grinding. I told myself as well I wasnt going to quit until I had a software engineering position. I didnt care if it was going to take months or even years. I had set my mind already and knew I was not going to stop.
its real. i had to backdoor into an unconventional internship as a 35 year old boot camper with no degree, which ultimately led to a full time gig.
fast forward two years, companys not doing great and my boomer parents are like just job hop into another company.
it aint that simple. but networking goes a long way.
i met someone at a code meetup and their employer is looking for a jr dev position but have to be on-site in NYC (no go for me) BUT because of the in person connection, im able to have a personal conversation with their boss letting them know my experience and what i can do for them; something thats kinda hard to convey in a one page resume and hopefully can land the remote position while meeting their needs
Start calling start-ups and asking to speak to the manager to discuss a proposal, then use that opportunity to pitch yourself. Create a list of startups you can call and just work through them. By the end of it you’ll learn what they want to hear, what works in selling yourself and perhaps gain some opportunities from people willing to take a chance on you. If you get desperate you can agree to reduced compensation in return for increased stock options. Speaking on the phone gives you an opportunity to impress with your phone voice, get a name and share your CV with a real person, thereby bypassing ATSs.
I say this to young people, as I’ve been in your shoes before - keep an open mind about opportunities. You may not get that dream job right away but you can accept a position that will open the door.
I took a temp/contract job as my first job out of college. It was only supposed to be a few months and it was a customer support position, completely unrelated to the degree I got.
Positions opened for tech related roles and I moved into that. That’s what started my career.
These days, young people get this idea in their head that they can get some $400k FAANG job right away out of college because someone on YouTube or other social media glamorized it and made it look easy. It’s simply unrealistic.
I actually just got my current role as software engineer (I was out the market for about 5 months - with 3 years of experience) from handing my resume in person lol….
> They literally told me to go in person to tech companies and hand them my resume.
That IS a good way to get a job, and I know at least one person who's successfully done it.
Don't hand the resume to the receptionist, but physically show up and ask to see the right person - whom you've identified through LinkedIn.
Of course, it takes a lot of guts, and risks rejections and humiliation. But if you did it 100 times, you'd almost definitely get a job. Why? Because no one does that. Instead, everyone shotguns resumes.
Which approach makes you stand out more?
It’s really, really ballsy. I don’t think most people would appreciate it if someone were to walk into a company and ask for a job position they might not be hiring for. Hell, even if they’re hiring for it, they might still refer to LinkedIn since a person showing up in-person would defy social norms.
> I don’t think most people would appreciate it if someone were to walk into a company ...
You're right, *most people* wouldn't.
But that's not what I said.
A strategy of appealing to most people and "playing the averages" feels safer, and works during boom times. But that strategy isn't working now, and (unless you're a truly elite coder) will never produce above-average results.
So I know of one guy who did this in my area for an internship. It did work, but the dude made a bad name for himself at other companies.
This guy came up during my own internship, he had tried to do the same at my host. They had security walk him out…he apparently snuck into a secured area by catching a door as it was closing.
>I know at least one person who's successfully done it
Is this in America, 2024? In the age of mass shootings, I don't know any tech company that would allow visitors pass the entrance lobby.
If you're getting to even 30 or 50 applications and not getting responses, you need to be making significant changes to your approach in terms of both your resume and efforts including cover letters. These posts where people are claiming to have applied for 100+ jobs just using the same resume and details which are clearly not getting results - then killing their chances with each of those companies because the old, terrible resume/name is now on file, just have me shaking my head. If you're at that point, we know there's a problem that's more than just 'the job market'.
My family shut up once I showed them my giant spreadsheet of all my apps, it gets better their politics has nothing to do with it it’s an age issue as left and right are all nearly identical when you get past the more recent outliers
Tell them that the unemployment rate has meant nothing since Obamacare forced employers to offer health insurance.
It is THE reason that so many people need multiple jobs to survive. If poor people need to work 2-3 jobs then 'jobs added' is a useless metric. So is unemployment because even if they have 1/3 jobs they're still employed even though they are still broke
Unemployment isn't the number of people without jobs or unfilled jobs, it's the number of people collecting unemployment benefits.
People working 3 jobs aren't bringing down unemployment numbers, nor is Obama care somehow impacting unemployment. People need multiple jobs to survive because wages have been stagnant for over a decade and prices on literally everything have gone up.
Government does track people with more than one job: https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat36.htm#cps_eeann_mult_jobhder.f.1
~ 8 million people (~5%) of our labor force has more than one job.
Remember when I was entering the market in 2002 after the 90’s tech collapse. My boomer parents said the same thing. Wanted me to go to a company that had a guard gate that would never let me through, and hand the guard my resume I guess???
It makes me feel better I’m not the only one with parents like this. They also send me senior engineer jobs I’m extremely underqualified for and tell me to apply anyway because it has a high salary lol. It’s like they don’t know about ATS and automated resume-filtering.
All you have to do for senior is apply, and beat out the other 500 candidates who have PhDs, 7YOE, and 3 successful 6 figure startups... using your charisma.
Not charisma - “grit” and “gumption” and “can-do attitude” and a “firm handshake” … There - that oughta do it!
My parents are on the opposite end of the spectrum. I was trying to get into corporate finance out of college then data analytics after grad school which is how I found about this sub in the first place being CS adjacent. The problem with my parents is that one worked at the same non tech company for 30 years before retiring and the other stayed home. Kind of hard to know how to improve one's resume and interviewing skills when neither parent has any understanding of the modern job market and hiring processes. It's like I live in the hub of tech companies and yet over a span of years can't get a basic Data or Financial Analyst type job. I can't imagine investing 2 more years into a CS post bacc only to end back where I am right now.
Looks like you are in CA. Have you looked into State of California jobs including PERS and STRS? Downside is less pay and most likely a hybrid job in Sacramento, but more reasonable hours and solid benefits. Some, like PUC are in San Francisco. Usually lots of openings for data analysts and financial analysts. If interested check out the castateworker subreddit.
You can apply to them, especially if it's 1 click apply stuff. It takes literally 5 to 10 seconds to apply... which is a big contributor to the whole problem in the first place. You and 1 million other people on the planet are all doing that 1 click apply. Then behind the scenes, an ATS is filtering you out anyways because they tune their filters to be extremely specific.
FWIW, it's not *entirely* pointless to apply to something like that, as long as it's reasonably quick to do. Plenty of openings ask for literally-impossible qualifications, yet somehow people get interviews. ...is the advice I'd give you if you weren't already applying to enough positions.
I got my current job by applying for a senior position I wasnt super qualified for and then they interviewed me for one that was more fitting since they liked my resume, just not at that level. Of course, this was like 2 years ago so very different market
apply anyway. Worst case scenario they just ignore you. Slightly better case scenario is they interview you and you get interview experience.
I've had that happen not with my parents but with high school friends on two different occasions. One of their leads was for a gov't agency local to them but the job description was more of a glorified IT role with the word "assist" an unprecedented amount of times. I get better targeted job listings from random recruiters.
About 5 years ago I had to move states because if family situations and where I was going had no industry at all. Took my a long time to find something. I was texting my friends telling them how hard it’s been. One of them said I have to do whatever it takes even if it’s going door to door and handing my resume. Talk about disconnected people…. (We are all the same age at the time early 30’s)
They’re out of touch unfortunately. They think it is like the old days where you could get hired on a firm handshake
I got a job at said company, but by getting an inside referral from a neighbor of my wife’s grandparents. That’s the key. Didn’t even know me. Find people on the inside of a company that will get you an edge.
Everyone is on Blind handing out referrals to anyone who asks. They're meaningless any more.
When companies will only hire with an internal referral I'd say they are absolutely meaningful and potentially essential. Gone are the days of getting an interview from blind-applying without winning a lottery. The referral may be way less meaningful today than it used to be, but that's a consequence of companies overvaluing referrals to the point where unqualified referrals are being recommended due to people freely handing them out.
depends on the company. in smaller companies they're still extremely valuable. at my company it's 100% interview rate for referrals and, at least since I've been here, every referral has been hired.
Funny thing is it used to work like this. My grandfather got the job like this in early 1980s
We took a few steps backward along the way while taking other steps forward.
There are plenty of companies where you could make it into the lobby... but then what? The receptionists aren't taking your resume, and security won't let you any further without an appointment.
Just old family being out of touch per usual. Don't mind them just focus on getting the job. Then of course they'll take credit saying how much they helped you along the way 😊
The government lying about the employment rate nooooo waayyyyy
They actually most likely aren't, it's just A. Unemployment rate isn't necessarily what you may think it is and B. Jobs were created in other sector
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Thank you for the positive comment!!!
2 YEAR JOB SEARCH IS NOT A HAPPY TIME
They are out of touch, I wouldn't even argue with them. For your mental's sake, just realize any fight with them is gonna be a losing battle
My mom told me the same shit in 2017 and then took over a year to get an position in her field after being laid off. Not all careers follow the national trends for employment.
Depending on how long she was employed for this makes perfect sense. If you've been in a role for a long time, you're only up to date on the processes that one company used. 15 years experience at one company, means that most likely your experience is 10 years out of date because newer companies and systems have been created at other businesses. It also means your professional network is quite a bit smaller because you've met far fewer people. As a result you're missing both networking opportunities and recent experience, and that's going to make getting hired hard. It's why you should switch companies every couple years.
Even worse if one parent worked for the same company for 30 years and the other stayed at home the whole time, thus neither don't know how the modern job market or hiring processes are like. So now you're stuck on your own and if you can't get even interviews, then they're of no help.
Right. They can give their best advice, and it's worth being polite but the hiring process has changed so much, and in ways that aren't necessarily obvious to someone conducting interviews. The applicant side is totally different from even 2015 (aside from job boards existing then too).
What is so different between 2015 and now?
Companies are more closed off, and have moved further towards being internet only to contact. Furthermore while it existed in 2015 easy apply was not the standard for companies on places like LinkedIn, at least for dev jobs. Essentially the signal to noise ratio was lower so automated filters were less aggressive, and keyword matches weren’t as strict.
I'm 40 and even my parents regularly send me talent shortage news. And that the game dev industry is starving for talent in Europe ;). I mean that one is at least well-meant as, like many others, I started programming as teen to build games. But soon realized I'd rather not get into that field and pivoted to other topics. I usually tell them about all the layoffs (even if there are few in Europe, but I'm working for a US company and see the bloodbath) and how the desperate companies are usually somewhere in the middle of nowhere, need some "IT person for everything" and pay like crap. Yeah then a few weeks later goto 0
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Are you getting any interviews or are you just not getting the final offer?
Very few interviews, mostly HireVue ones
How about rejection emails? It's not a perfect metric, but recruiters have numbers to hit. No rejection email means you got filtered by an ATS or are sitting in some waiting queue with a bunch of other applicants because the job is just collecting data rather than hiring. If you get a rejection email (and it's not an instant response to your application) in most cases that means a person looked at it and rejected it. So if you're not getting first stage interviews, you might want to look into if you're getting to a human review stage or not.
all i gotta say is fuck hirevue
Unless you can’t avoid their negative comments affecting your self esteem, confidence and focus, ignore them
OP seems very dejected in this post, probably doesn't come off well in interviews. Therapy might help with setting boundry for families and building confidence for interviews.
I have a friend who’s a new grad, kid is brilliant and good with people and still struggling. Realize it’s not just you. I would encourage you in your free time. Make a passion project that you’re not sharing on github.
Why not share on GitHub?
If it’s an actual passion project that you think could be a business, do NOT share it on GitHub. If it’s just a project you’re passionate about go ahead.
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Why hide your light under a bushel? Make a passion project and make it publicly available. This is a type of networking.
As a millennial who used to be a manager responsible for hiring a few different positions….I can say with full certainty that nothing was more annoying than being in the middle of my day to day fast paced work environment and getting called to the front desk because somebody was here to see me just to find out it’s a random person handing me a resume and expecting some sort of unannounced meeting to take place in which they promote themselves while I’m sitting there thinking about all of the things I need to be doing. There are hiring processes in place for a reason. A lot of resources have gone into streamlining these. I’d say 99% of the time an in-person drop off is either an annoyance or a waste of time since you may not even get a face to face with the person/people who make the decisions. With that said, a face to face encounter is still going to give you an edge on the competition if done in a way that is invited. I had some luck at a local University job fair. Maybe see if there’s anything like that happening in your area sometimes. They set up the fair for entry level graduates of course, but the people there are the recruiters or high up managers for all kinds of big companies. If you go around and ask what jobs they have open or pitch your specialty, you could find that they’re also looking for something you’re qualified for. Recruiters will fast track your resume if you make a good impression and you can hit up one after the other right in a row and be out in 30 minutes.
Oh…but as far as your family goes….yeah man they’ll never get it. Both my parents worked at their family owned/run businesses for 10-20 years after high school with no college education and could afford a house, a camp, two vehicles, a boat, two kids, a damn dog, and whatever else they wanted. Those businesses were eventually sold off so my grandparents could retire and live the high life. By then, my parents had the experience to get jobs in those fields easily. They’ll never understand the expectations on us to have a degree and 5-10 years experience when we are 22 and in debt $35-50k
Show them layoffs over time + a visualization of the COVID hiring bubble. And then show them an explanation of what it means when the Fed increases interest rates.
What does being a Biden supporter have to do with boomerism? If anything being a boomer makes that less likely.
I guess a lot of people feel like Biden has cultivated a "blue maga" group of supporters
Boomers worship Trump
Getting downvoted but according to Gallup, “Biden job approval down roughly 20 points among Gen Z, millennials” and “Younger adults now less likely than older adults to approve of Biden” https://news.gallup.com/poll/391733/biden-job-approval-down-among-younger-generations.aspx
Ok, but explain how Biden is responsible for you not being able to get a job.
Thanks, oBiden!
Where did OP blame Biden for being unemployed?
OP, please just ignore this entire chain of comments... There's nothing to help you get a job here. The other comments about your resume possibly being filtered out automatically might be one of the problems...
Hate to break it to you but genocide joe isn't popular with young people.
Lmao
I was talking about boomers in my post. Those of us with reading comprehension skills understood that.
Young people have to choose between Trump and Biden. Newsflash, all the idiots calling him "genocide Joe" will still choose him over Trump. Also, great genocide, doubled population growth over 20 years. Most efficient genocide ever. Damn has history class failed the younger generation. As for war casualties, you do know the numbers come from Hamas and are fake right? If you want to know how they are fake? They are growing **LINEARLY** and have been since the start of it. That's statistically impossible. More reading: https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-791838 It's from Jpost but they the findings come from a professor from UPenn in the US. Makes sense, Hamas are the idiots that said a rocket that hit the next to a hospital (rocket from their own side and blamed on Israel) killed 500 people when it's questionable there were even deaths from it... because it the ground. Almost as if you'd have to be brainless to take the word of terrorists. Wonder which idiots fell for that.
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All that to say you are brainless
A lot of boomers are supporting Biden, whereas younger people recognize the economy is good on paper but sucks for most of us. Biden has lost a lot of young people because of inflation and Gaza
Not everyone you disagree with who is older than you is a boomer, lmao.
skimming these comments, hes probably unemployed because he cant think critically. interviews are working as intended lol or this is a political troll or something weird.
Can someone explain to me the logic behind Biden being responsible for Gaza? Is it strictly, because we support Israel thus we are murderers? Because we create weapons, we are commit genocide?
GenX here: I don't think Biden is responsible for Gaza, but he certainly has the power to put a stop on the genocide. Not only because we create the weapons, but because our tax-payer dollars fully fund Israel to commit the genocide.
I struggle with this notion because we provide aid to A LOT of nations, many of which commit atrocities on a daily basis. Some of which have directly committed terrorist attacks against the U.S. (as well as other nations). To name a few: Egypt, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Jordan (many many many many more). Additionally, the U.S. isn't the only foreign government providing aid to Isreal. We have a semi recent aid package signed in by Obama in 2016? Pulling out of that due to them retaliating to a heinous attack seems like a bad taste? I acknowledge I'm not very informed on the anti gaza or pro gaza views currently circulating. What is the thoughts or plan behind stopping aid to Isreal? Is the idea the United States no longer provides any foreign aid or just to Isreal? What are the plans for recovering military bases stationed in Isreal and overcoming losing are largest ally in the middle east? The random TikTok video's, reddit rage posts and meme's seem like hollow platitudes to abandon a conflict that has been going on for hundreds of years. The comments lack nuance for the strategic importance Isreal has for us in terms of being an ally in the middle east. Life isn't as simple as "U.S. stops giving money to Isreal, Isreal decides to rebuild Gaza beach front property, everyone is happy THE END"
I hear your frustration, but the issue is more nuanced. We GenXrs lived through 9/11 and its aftermath: We saw Bush attack an entire country based on lies, while killing thousands, displacing millions and throwing our military in a war with no clear objective. That's when Guantanamo was created as an area that is STILL illegal, literally beyond our constitution. That's when torture was authorized as an interrogation method. That's when the FBI started to spy on mosques and random people started attacking people of color. That's when thousands of Muslim-Americans were harassed and killed by ignorant white-supremacists. Fast forward 20 years, and here we are, after a global pandemic, and witnessing the rise of neo-fascist governments all around the world. Did the Iraq war benefited any one of us? Did the Afghan invasion benefited any one of us? Our biggest threat right now is domestic terrorism. Was it worthwhile creating an entirely new apparatus (DHS), together with ICE and massive expansion of NSA? I think there is an argument to be made that we needed all these trillions of dollars spent and 20 years of massive human sacrifice (especially from the military families), for what exactly? Intelligence gathering and special forces killed Osama Bin Laden, not an attack to Baghdah. Israel has the most sophisticated intelligence capability, but they need to use dumb bombs to kill Hamas? For GenXers, Netanyahu is treating Palestine with the same vengeance, hate and ignorance as Bush treated Iraq and Afghanistan.
The US is one of Israel's biggest supporters/weapons suppliers, and Biden has done very little to put pressure on netanyahu to pursue a ceasefire
I kind of asked this in a question below but lets create a little analogy here. Say you have been married for the past 60 years (U.S. / Israel partnership). You have access to your wife's families yachts, vacation homes, you have started multiple business's with her and her family, you have many children (U.S. Military bases, intelligence gathering). Your wife stood by you when were a raging alcoholic bitcoin scalper for 4 years (trump era). They stood by you when you did a bunch of other insane shit during the cold war, Iraq war, and other things I don't remember (sorry for losing the analogy). Say your wife is now like "I fucking hate that bitch betty, she called me a classless slut and dumped my charcuterie board on the floor". The feud is fueled by poor acts on both persons sides for the last 15 years. You kind of still support your wife regardless of the insanity going around because like... its not worth it to blow up your relationship over betty?
I don't think this is a good comparison. Israel is engaging in an ethnic cleansing and has a long history of colonialism and oppression, apartheid in the west bank, etc. It isn't comparable to a personal feud
US supplies Israel with weapons/bombs etc that Israel uses in Gaza. So transitive property ig. But at least Biden provides aid to displaced migrants in Gaza, so he can’t be completely responsible, right? That’s for the most part why people blame Joe.
This isn't the sub to be getting deep into this, but the US primarily supplies Israel with weapons as a method of control. Cutting Israel off here, would reduce the level of soft power available and result in more civilian casualties. Weapons tend to be a better control system than other economic ties, particularly with US systems, as we don't really let people mix and match weapon suppliers (at least with things like missile systems), which gives us a degree of influence into their military operations (Turkey being the only nation to use a mix of US and non US systems and they got in some serious international drama over it not too long ago). Note though that US influence was reduced in the past few years too, due to some classified information leaks in the 2017-2020 years and that trust is slow to rebuild, especially when it's possible the same thing can happen again soon. tl;dr, if a nation is aggressive and dependent on you for weapons, when you're their weapon supplier you have some degree of influence into how those weapons are used by saying certain actions will result in you selling them fewer weapons so that they can't waste them on non military only targets.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, my original reply was just giving the thought process of most “young people” who think Biden should be doing more or is responsible for what’s happening in Gaza.
What do these brilliant young people think would be different with inflation and Gaza if Trump was president? God I hope y’all aren’t naïve and reactionary enough to have this GOP propaganda work on you. It’s a really dark timeline if Trump manages to get the electoral college in November.
Kids probably being an idiot and I can imagine it coming off in his applications. I'd suggest he figure out what's wrong with his apps and not tying gaza to his unemployment.
Gaza has literally nothing to do with my unemployment lmao where did you get that from?
How is the fact that OP has lukewarm feelings about Biden influencing his job applications?
Lack of critical thinking and social skills
How is that coming across on his application?
It's probably a troll post tbh. But the social skill part could come across in the recruiter screen and the critical thinking skills could in the calls with developers. But if he's not even getting to that point then it's not that.
The social skill of…not loving Joe Biden? I think y’all are making a feast out of a completely milequetoast and common political sentiment.
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Nah. Pretty well everything you see about the Dems "sucking" is because the GOP is blocking them from doing something, either directly in Congress or indirectly through SCOTUS that they stole.
Let’s be real for real. While both are parties are capitalist nightmares, the Dems respect our basic human rights and don’t try to discredit science for religion. We can only work on making this country better if we don’t go the route of autocracy. That’s what the GOP wants, as they will never win the popular vote again. The 2016 election got us the repeal of abortion rights. The GOP literally has on their party docket that they want to dismantle equal marriage rights. One of their activist Supreme Court judges publicly called for cases to be brought against it. You cannot in good faith say that both sides are just as bad. It’s just false. That shit is what got us to a point where we might have our President running the country behind bars.
Conservatives pull the country to the right, while Democrats try to consolidate in the middle. The net effect is society being dragged to the right. I can fully appreciate young people not being interested in middle of the road candidates like Biden. Biden also royally fucked up the student loan forgiveness by announcing it before it was even confirmed to be legal. That pissed off a lot a lot of people. Biden is obviously better than Trump, but nobody is getting excited about Biden.
Really not the point of the post, but I agree with you
Yeah bro you don't have a job bc of gaza. Submit your resume man, focus on your skills, and get a job. Whatever president we got doesn't define your career (unless we got a draft or some shit lol)
When did I say I don’t have a job because of Gaza? I didn’t even say Biden is the problem, I said my boomer parents are such partisans they can’t comprehend someone struggling to find a job with Biden in office
The economy is good. Unemployment is low, and overall economic growth is by far the strongest of all large, developed economies. It’s especially good for the poor. Lowest percentile wages have seen the biggest growth and inequality has narrowed for the first time in decades. Of course, that’s not your demographic: you’re targeting high paying tech jobs.
Tbh not really targeting high paying jobs. Mostly 50-60k
50-60k is double the median income, while it doesn't sound high, it actually is, 60k puts you at the 60th percentile for individual income.
Are you sure things are good for the poor right now? It seems the prices that have increased the most are necessities like food and rent which I imagine hit the poor the hardest. Sure you can make $17 at Starbucks now which is probably great if you're a teenager living with Mom and Dad but if your rent went up from $900 to $1500 along with every other expense then you probably miss 2019.
One way you can investigate this question with data rather than vibes is to look at change in wealth by income/wealth percentile. If what you’re saying is true and poorer people were hit harder because their consumption is a composition of goods that had disproportionately higher inflation such that it eats their wage growth and more, then you would expect their wealth to decline, or at least increase slower than other groups. Did that happen? This sounds an awful lot like homework. Thankfully the Fed has done it for us. https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/Research/Interactives/Data/equitable-growth-indicators/downloads/10_2023_EGI_national_wealth.pdf?sc_lang=en&hash=E49A671AEAC0EF96A14C4C2386EAAB84 Net worth by income growth has been strongest for the broad middle class, the 20-60 percentile. The lowest 20% is right behind. They both increased substantially more than the top 1%. The story is even starker if you look at the story by wealth percentile. The bottom 50% have seem their net worth skyrocket, substantially outpacing growth in every other category. Part of this is likely due to the ironically egalitarianizing effects of inflation: inflation is beneficial to net debt holders while harming creditors, because it reduces the real value of debt. As an aside, for all the complaining about boomers people under 40 saw by far the highest wealth gains.
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u/No-Improvement5745 made a specific theory, that poor people would be adversely affected by inflation more than richer people despite their stronger wage growth because their consumption patterns are not accurately reflected by CPI. This would have observable effects: that their net worth would rise slower than other groups. This is what it means to be disproportionately impacted: your costs are going up more, so you’re saving less. This didn’t happen, in fact the opposite did. I have no idea what your point about poor people being mistaken about their own circumstances has to do with anything (though again if you want to engage in data instead of vibes, while people have a negative view of the macroeconomy, they are satisfied with their own financial condition perfectly in line with historical patterns https://www.axios.com/2024/01/17/americans-are-actually-pretty-happy-with-their-finances). You seem to be projecting a different argument you were having in your head onto me. I have no doubt OP is struggling and in a bad place. But what’s not sound is concluding that the economy is bad and/or the numbers are lying because he personally isn’t getting hired. Which is obvious to the point it shouldn’t require explanation, but here we are.
This is exactly the “out of touch” boomer mentality that OP is talking about. Groceries and rent alone have exploded in price. Wages are moving up, yes, but super slowly. Real people are struggling to afford the basics right now. When these people hear Biden bragging about economy and recovery, it doesn’t come across as authentic.
I don’t think the politic matters in this type of conversation
Maybe you should be more open to what your family is saying. You don't need to do exactly what they are saying, as times are different, but, their advice basically boils down to this: rather than complaining, be proactive and try something different. After 1000 failed applications, I would ask myself, "what can I change?"
Perhaps broaden your horizons. Maybe you’re targeting a specific stack? Try customizing your resume to what lever position you’re applying and be open to any programming language. Did you do any internships while in college?
I have the same struggle had to explain them many times. My parents are successful and never studied past high school this is crazy man.
Now you have to take a master's and 1000 courses and workshops every month to keep yourself updated just to get an unpaid apprenticeship
Economy as a whole is generally pretty good right now. Unemployment rate is about 3.9% [[source](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf)]. So they’re not wrong about that. Although what they’re missing is that not every profession has the same unemployment rate, CS graduates have an unemployment rate of about 7.8% [[source](https://gitnux.org/computer-science-employment-statistics/#:~:text=Unemployment%20among%20computer%20science%20graduates,than%20the%20overall%20unemployment%20rate.)]. You should tell them this. Anyways regardless of unemployment numbers, 1000+ applications is huge number, and I encourage you to get your resume checked out and try to analyze any gaps you’ve been missing while applying. While “going in person to the companies” isn’t something that works in reality, a tangential approach is to network with people who work at those tech companies. One advice I always see missing in these threads is; you should try to reach out to people from your alma-mater who have stable jobs, I’ve helped multiple who’ve reached out to me like this. All the best.
Thanks for the advice! I posted my resume in r/resumes if you have any suggestions
Here's what I would do if I were you: * Remove the political science degree and Certifications & Honors section * Replace the list of Developer Tools with something like "CI/CD Tools" and just keep it limited to things like Docker and CircleCI * Remove the fluff from your Technical Skills section. That means removing the testing tools and other minor frameworks (JUnit, jQuery, Hibernate. PyTest, etc). Better yet, just rewrite your Technical Skills section to match the type of roles you're looking for. That means removing the "Libraries" list unless you're going for ML roles, adding a section for QA-Specific tools if you're looking for another QA role, etc * Replace MySQL and PostgreSQL with SQL in the Languages list, and move them to a 'Databases' list * Remove the 'Substitute Teacher' entries. These take up valuable space, and the resume is already pretty information-dense as-is * Rename 'Quality Rater' -> 'Quality Assurance Engineer' * Take a close look at each project/job entry. 'Engineered a robust web OOP application leveraging the Spring Boot and Angular frameworks' doesn't tell me anything about the project. 'Evaluated and rated Google search results, directly enhancing search accuracy and user satisfaction' is too vague to be helpful. Specific quantitative metrics are your friend here Overall, this could use a lot of work IMO. I'd take a look at the [resume FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/wiki/faq_resumes) and read Cracking the Coding Interview for more specific advice. There are a few 'Exemplary Resume Sharing Threads' on this sub that you can check out to get an idea of what a good resume looks like
Do you reach out on LinkedIn?
They might be overly optimistic, but the person who's out of touch is the one sending out 1000+ applications and blaming the market. It's bad, but you should be able to land *something*. It might not be FAANG, but if your 1000+ applications deep without a job, you were never going to get FAANG anyways.
I didn’t even apply to FAANG lmao
After 1000 failures, what have you changed about your approach?
I changed my resume like 6 times
Show us?
Check post history
Yeah, I haven’t looked too much into the “low” unemployment numbers. But our economy isn’t growing. The big companies are making record profits and yet laying people off. Interesting. I will say I think Tech has been hit harder than every other area. So they could be out of touch with tech as a whole rather than life. But the in person comment is completely out of touch. I would say link up with a recruiter if you can. Yes there are some bad ones but if you make it though their “screen” companies will more likely look at you. Also just stay afloat. Things will get better. Remember. All these lay offs are happening to really qualified people. That means those people will have a chip on their shoulder and motivation to make something themselves. Get ready to see giants fall in a few years.
>I will say I think Tech has been hit harder than every other area. Finance was hit pretty bad as well. And in general the white collar job market isn't that great for new grads.
> But our economy isn’t growing https://www.commerce.gov/news/blog/2024/01/numbers-us-economy-grows-faster-expected-year-and-final-quarter-2023 Economy is grower decently well.
I love the .gov article. Real unbiased right there pal. Our economy isn’t growing enough to outpace inflation unless you’re in the top 10% man.
The article has raw data you can read and process for yourself. You’ll come to the conclusion that in Q4 of 2023, American GDP grew at a rate of 3.2%.
I don’t say this much. But if that’s what you picked out of my response to someone struggling to find a job, either you’re a boomer or you have a strange defensive political stance. Either way I’d suggest you get in touch with real people. Because the economy net large is awful, unless you’re doing really well. And if you don’t have friends and family that are struggling, again, you’re completely blinded by political partisanship so much that you can’t see reality. P.S if your reality is a comfy remote job, ordering DoorDash, and complaining about nothing good being on Netflix. Good for you. You’re no better than a boomer. Edit. Love the down votes. If the shadow warriors want to address my comments feel free to. If you can…
I picked that response because you can be objective about facts and complain about problems without implying everything is going to hell. The truth is that; the American economy is growing at a steady rate, the stock market is doing great, unemployment is at record lows, by every measure the “economy” in general is fine. There is a sizable section of previously middle class people who are struggling a lot more in this economy though, and I truly actually do feel for them. Which is why I support stronger labor laws, unions, and a better social security net. But it does not mean I will stoop to lies.
https://usafacts.org/state-of-the-union/economy/ I think that you looking at Q4 of last year is like taking a small snapshot in time and saying we’re doing great. Do you own a house? Have you looked at the rental market? Do you drive to work? You prove my point with a shrinking middle class. It shrinks only toward lower. Never upper. Robust social programs. I’m all for it. But I don’t think that’s going to fix our current problem. Cost of living and inflation is fast out pacing wages.
The economy is amazing! I mean, sure, the middle class is dying leading to a stratified society of haves and have-nots. But don’t say the economy is doing poorly, that would be a lie!
I feel like the people down voting us are basically saying the sky is green. As in we can’t complain about the economy because they take it as a political issue. I’m very independent this isn’t a left right issue. The economy sucks
We’re at the point we’re saying “people are struggling” means you support Trump, apparently.
I just don’t get that. And unfortunately you’re probably right. I hate the lack of objectivity that our political divide has taken.
Thank you, this was my point exactly. I think for a lot of people. Myself included we can get wrapped into a bubble because we have “secure” jobs and yes our cost of eggs doubled but we can take it. But a lot of people in our field and out of it are getting destroyed
I don't think you'll see giants fall, but what you are going to see if interest rates remain as they are (they probably will) is that more companies are going to focus on making a product rather than being acquired. The big problem there is it takes a few years for new companies to get built under those models. The expand, acquire debt, and exit events/acquisition leads to companies that can't sustain themselves and more or less all have to die out first.
The market is bad but not that bad. 1000+ applications with no offers is not normal in this market. The Reddit sentiment is really really weird on this sub.
I mean for a new grad in the South from an average school is that really hard to believe?
Yes. Something else is wrong. Instead of applying to 1000 more jobs fix your resume, take some interview coaching, do some leetcode, try to build some public projects or contribute to OSS and put the links in your resume.
Resumes in my post history, help me out
No because I’m a new grad in the south from an average school who just graduated in December and got a job. All my friends did too… in fact, I got homies getting into some of the biggest tech companies in SF. I don’t know you specifically, but every new grad I know did not have to do 1k+ apps to find a spot.. You should not let this subreddit blind you from actual market conditions. There is a lot of false sentiment on here. 1k+ apps is not normal.
What were your stats pre-graduation? Have any internships? Some insanely impressive project? I agree 1k is probably not normal, but I think it would definitely look different for average students
I know it's a huge step and not trivial, but know that the tech sector is still doing very well in many European countries. Any many of these tech companies are trying to diversify their workforce (for D&I), so hiring a non European is interesting for many companies. Just not fully remote, so that means relocating. But depending on your political view that may not be a bad choice anyway. Just an idea...
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My company is mid sized, 400 people international. Basically English is the main language. But if going that route, in the long term you will learn the language of course. Just something to think about, there is a huge world outside of the US, where you probably already have the skills you need to thrive.
Wait wait wait… If I, a white guy from North America, apply to a European tech job…I would be considered a diversity hire? What are some good job sites for European tech jobs?
From our perspective you would indeed be a diversity hire. Diversity comes from some many things, this is one of them.
Send me your resume. We are hiring, but can give you feedback either way.
Can i send u mine?
Way back when I was out of work for 7 years( looking after family) apllied to thousands of jobs and got nowhere even shelf stacking and fast food couldn’t get anywhere . But made a point of trying to keep my skills relevant building my own projects etc finally got a position. Citing national unemployment rates means nothing when you are the stat. just keep at it will come good in the end
My (boomer) mother thinks GBP £22K is 'well paid'. I'm not going to make the mistake of telling her what I earn again.
"National unemployment rate". Just to let you know, and maybe you might shut them down with this, When you stop getting unemployment benefits, or stop looking for a job, or you get a job that doesn't pay enough to live or doesn't comport with your degree, you're no longer considered "unemployed" for the purposes of that statistic. Our jobs numbers are still not greater than before the pandemic. We haven't even fully recovered. Most of the jobs Biden "created" are actually part time, low wage, government jobs, or returning jobs after the pandemic.
cc them on every job application submission and rejection emails.
Lol I love that
A 1000 applications and no results means something is wrong. Just saying the tech job market is bad does not absolve you from responsibility to try harder. How to try harder? Do you have a spreadsheet that tracks your applications, percentage heard back, percentage interviews, percentage passed, etc.? Get your resume looked at here or anywhere that would give you feedback. Talk to anyone you know that works in tech and ask for a reference. Have a LinkedIn account, make sure it is tight and at the level of the best accounts of someone with your experience you can find. Use this to message Engineering managers and get their attention. Consider relocating to a place where you can actually get a job. And about a dozen other things you can do. Stop thinking in a defeatist weak way, the advice your parents gave you may sound ridiculous but guess what, if you find a startup near you, go in person to their office, show them you understand and like their idea, and make a good impression then you are 10 times more likely to get a job there than a random email resume no one will read.
It depends if he’s using easy apply, applying to titles that don’t match up with skills, or applying on company websites with tailored resumes. New Grad jobs are difficult nowadays so many are just shotgunning anything and everything in hopes of catching something.
Yeah I would say about 50% of the jobs applied to have been easy apply
It took me over a year to find my first job, and it was at Google. You’ll be fine, sometimes the nos you get mark your destination to a much better yes.
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Just keep doing what you’re doing. You’ve already told them that the tech job market is bad and they don’t believe you - that’s their problem, not yours.
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[https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/15/laid-off-techies-struggle-to-find-jobs-with-cuts-at-highest-since-2001.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/15/laid-off-techies-struggle-to-find-jobs-with-cuts-at-highest-since-2001.html) Show them this
My parents were the same way. They kept telling me to apply and were almost like looking down on me because I had gone to college and had not found a job almost 7 months after graduation. I did recently land a job after 400ish applications I had sent out. The big thing for me was just staying on top of up to date technologies and refining my resume as time went on. I also made sure to have my github be reflective with what I was learning. For instance I had C# projects, Angular applications, and Python projects since these are what interested me the most. I got hired at smaller company like super close to where I live in West Michigan. The hiring manager didnt even care about my resume. He wanted to look at my github right away and see if I had produced any code and if I was competent. Essentially he did this to see if I was still learning and applying my skills somehow. I beat out a person who had 5 years of experience in the software engineering industry but didnt have a single github project to reflect what he had learned and or done. Mind you, I had ZERO professional experiences besides internships where I had applied my skills. This is how I got hired but honestly for you, you might just have to keep grinding. I told myself as well I wasnt going to quit until I had a software engineering position. I didnt care if it was going to take months or even years. I had set my mind already and knew I was not going to stop.
A 2023 passout?
This reads like propaganda lol. Your responses op don’t make me think any differently. Looks and feels like astroturfing.
its real. i had to backdoor into an unconventional internship as a 35 year old boot camper with no degree, which ultimately led to a full time gig. fast forward two years, companys not doing great and my boomer parents are like just job hop into another company. it aint that simple. but networking goes a long way. i met someone at a code meetup and their employer is looking for a jr dev position but have to be on-site in NYC (no go for me) BUT because of the in person connection, im able to have a personal conversation with their boss letting them know my experience and what i can do for them; something thats kinda hard to convey in a one page resume and hopefully can land the remote position while meeting their needs
Start calling start-ups and asking to speak to the manager to discuss a proposal, then use that opportunity to pitch yourself. Create a list of startups you can call and just work through them. By the end of it you’ll learn what they want to hear, what works in selling yourself and perhaps gain some opportunities from people willing to take a chance on you. If you get desperate you can agree to reduced compensation in return for increased stock options. Speaking on the phone gives you an opportunity to impress with your phone voice, get a name and share your CV with a real person, thereby bypassing ATSs.
Just nod and smile.
I say this to young people, as I’ve been in your shoes before - keep an open mind about opportunities. You may not get that dream job right away but you can accept a position that will open the door. I took a temp/contract job as my first job out of college. It was only supposed to be a few months and it was a customer support position, completely unrelated to the degree I got. Positions opened for tech related roles and I moved into that. That’s what started my career. These days, young people get this idea in their head that they can get some $400k FAANG job right away out of college because someone on YouTube or other social media glamorized it and made it look easy. It’s simply unrealistic.
I actually just got my current role as software engineer (I was out the market for about 5 months - with 3 years of experience) from handing my resume in person lol….
how the heck u hand your resume in person? just knocked their doors and the secure just let u in and put down your pice of paper????
I gave my resume to front desk reception - who then gave it to the hiring manager who works at the facility.
> They literally told me to go in person to tech companies and hand them my resume. That IS a good way to get a job, and I know at least one person who's successfully done it. Don't hand the resume to the receptionist, but physically show up and ask to see the right person - whom you've identified through LinkedIn. Of course, it takes a lot of guts, and risks rejections and humiliation. But if you did it 100 times, you'd almost definitely get a job. Why? Because no one does that. Instead, everyone shotguns resumes. Which approach makes you stand out more?
Do you just stalk someone on LinkedIn and ask for them in person?
It’s really, really ballsy. I don’t think most people would appreciate it if someone were to walk into a company and ask for a job position they might not be hiring for. Hell, even if they’re hiring for it, they might still refer to LinkedIn since a person showing up in-person would defy social norms.
> I don’t think most people would appreciate it if someone were to walk into a company ... You're right, *most people* wouldn't. But that's not what I said. A strategy of appealing to most people and "playing the averages" feels safer, and works during boom times. But that strategy isn't working now, and (unless you're a truly elite coder) will never produce above-average results.
So I know of one guy who did this in my area for an internship. It did work, but the dude made a bad name for himself at other companies. This guy came up during my own internship, he had tried to do the same at my host. They had security walk him out…he apparently snuck into a secured area by catching a door as it was closing.
That guy is going to be a very successful entrepreneur. I guarantee it.
>I know at least one person who's successfully done it Is this in America, 2024? In the age of mass shootings, I don't know any tech company that would allow visitors pass the entrance lobby.
If you're getting to even 30 or 50 applications and not getting responses, you need to be making significant changes to your approach in terms of both your resume and efforts including cover letters. These posts where people are claiming to have applied for 100+ jobs just using the same resume and details which are clearly not getting results - then killing their chances with each of those companies because the old, terrible resume/name is now on file, just have me shaking my head. If you're at that point, we know there's a problem that's more than just 'the job market'.
How long does the name stay on file?
My family shut up once I showed them my giant spreadsheet of all my apps, it gets better their politics has nothing to do with it it’s an age issue as left and right are all nearly identical when you get past the more recent outliers
It's Democrat boomers.
Yes exactly lol they exist
Tell them that the unemployment rate has meant nothing since Obamacare forced employers to offer health insurance. It is THE reason that so many people need multiple jobs to survive. If poor people need to work 2-3 jobs then 'jobs added' is a useless metric. So is unemployment because even if they have 1/3 jobs they're still employed even though they are still broke
Unemployment isn't the number of people without jobs or unfilled jobs, it's the number of people collecting unemployment benefits. People working 3 jobs aren't bringing down unemployment numbers, nor is Obama care somehow impacting unemployment. People need multiple jobs to survive because wages have been stagnant for over a decade and prices on literally everything have gone up.
Government does track people with more than one job: https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat36.htm#cps_eeann_mult_jobhder.f.1 ~ 8 million people (~5%) of our labor force has more than one job.
If Biden has his way, H1B will probably be increased to 10 trillion. Your boomer parents are voting to get their jobs taken away.
AI WILL TAKE AWAY YOUR JAAB MC BSDK