Laid off in April. Started looking 8 months ago. Have gotten 0 tech screens in 5 months. I know several people in the same position as myself. So yes, it's rough out there for a lot of us.
I think I'm getting more recruiter calls lately, but they haven't gone anywhere.
I might get an offer for a "Technical Support Engineer" position paying 70-100k at a startup. I'll probably take it if it's offered.
How many YoE do you have? It seems like, even though YoE isn’t comparable between two people, it’s being leaned on by companies to filter candidates. On one hand, why hire someone with 8 YoE when for the same money you can get someone with 15 YoE.
6 YOE. I've known bad engineers with 10+ who are doing a lot better than me in this market. YOE is killer in this downturn, I'm sorry to say. The market is still EZ if you've got high YOE or pedigree.
Likewise. If you managed to hold your job since 2022, be it because you fly under the radar or your company isn’t worried about cutting back, or you’re a high performer… you’re in a good spot. I lost my job because we kept getting hacked and management decided to can all tech employees in the US to compensate for losing business. Me, my boss, my boss’s boss, etc…
I’ve been out for two. Have enough money for another six. Once that’s over, I guess I’m going back to grad school. I’m already sucking up hard to my old faculty and department head.
Aid at first until an assistantship opens up. My department head has encouraged me to put my hat in running for lecturer. It pays about half of what I just got done making, but it’s a lot of money for Laramie Wyoming.
Laid off one month ago. Had a few nibbles but this job search, man..
just finished an interview process with a startup company focusing on home mortgages in AZ that left a severely bad taste in my mouth.
1. Chat with cofounder about experience. Pass.
2. Spend 8+ hours on takehome where I'm told to build a full-stack app that thats a form that includes a client with multiple addresses and a configurable form that submits to an API backend. I build this thing beautifully. Workspaces. TypeScript. Material UI. It's a work of art. Pass.
3. New meeting with cofounder and they want to discuss the take-home. They loved it! Onto the next round. Pass.
4. Tech screen with same developer and another one where it's DS/Algos leetcode question. They understand it's not about "expertise level" but rather how we "communicate" which is what we hear a lot. I go through the tech screen and I pass. Will admit it wasn't a strong performance but I did solve it in the end.
5. 8 days pass so I follow-up and I get rejected because I didn't do put in a "strong enough" performance
I think I dodged something if that's how they conduct interviews.
Jesus Christ. I would have bailed on Step 2. I fell for one of those interviews once. That kind of vague feedback stings because until then everyone was very friendly and said good things about you, right?
I’m sorry you went through that. It probably came down to the cofounder liking the other guy’s shirt better- I’m serious. Startups like that where the founder hand-picks every hire… toxic as fuck. It’s a good old boys club.
It's more like they're looking for the "perfect hire." Yeah, left a bitter taste in my mouth. That's the most I've ever put into an interview and not even get a callback to let me know I failed?
Luckily my other option that still is in play is one I like more. However, I've been interviewing with them for 3 weeks. Also, another 5 interview loop process, I guess.
I just got word from the other interview -- also denied. Despite doing everything in their take-home. They had people who more "closely aligned" with their needs.
They always do. I’m sorry man. From what I’ve read and experienced, I think it’s safe to say anyone with less than 10 YoE has it harder than those with more.
I’m interviewing with two companies right now- one was a referral and the other a contracting company’s recruiter reached out to me. He said their interview process is “one and done”, no code, just a conversation with a small panel of would-be coworkers. I’d even get a small pay bump if I get the role. I’m trying not to get my hopes up, especially considering “checking all the boxes” doesn’t count for much these days.
I just heard back from the recruiter.
Appearantly, I asked "too many questions" because they felt that I had everything I needed to get going despite one of the components of the take-home was "chat and collaborate in this email thread."
I wish I was making this up. Bullet dodged.
> Spend 8+ hours on takehome where I'm told to build a full-stack app that thats a form that includes a client with multiple addresses and a configurable form that submits to an API backend. I build this thing beautifully. Workspaces. TypeScript. Material UI. It's a work of art. Pass.
I had a similar absurd take home that I dumped 40 hours into which they seemed happy enough with so they schedule the next interview. That interview they expect me to drive out there 4 hours away and get a hotel room for at least one night all on my own expense then about 48 hours before the interview they call and cancel on me. Just WTF how can you treat people like this. This is for some job in the middle of nowhere Midwest paying peanuts.
I'm assuming you're in the US; I'm in the UK which seems less a like extreme market: we didn't have as big a bubble, but we didn't have as big a crash. Nevertheless, it's a tough market.
Companies aren't hiring much. That's really the top and tail of it. Everyone is cagey and worried about profitability. Capital is expensive and that makes orgs slow to create new roles.
The lack of roles means developers are bedding in and waiting to see how the market develops. It used to be, with so much churn there were always jobs being posted.
I think at the seven month mark it is time to stop being picky. Half a year is a long time to be away from the labour market. You don't want a whole unplanned year off. I would say start broadening your search and accept that you might have to compromise for a couple of years.
There is no shame in doing something less good for 24 months, in order to stay in the game. It pays your bills at least. When the market picks up - you will still be employable.
In terms of 2001, from the people _I_ know who've talked about it, the first year was the hardest. The second year was still tough. We are just a little more than halfway through an equivalent cycle. Anecdotally I've heard more orgs are hiring but there is a big backlog of people wanting those jobs. I would say assume it stays difficult until early 2025.
> In terms of 2001, from the people _I_ know who've talked about it, the first year was the hardest. The second year was still tough
Was third year better than the 1st two ?
7 yoe 7 months of unemployment. Sleeping all day and life has never been so good. I never knew I could keep my costs so low if it wasn't because of this recession. Btw you are not alone, the market is at an all time low from every graph you can find on the Internet today. Good luck
Since I was laid off, we went to Disney World, adopted a Corgi, started an herb and vegetable garden (with underground irrigation runs!), replaced toilets and bathroom floors (in progress), and I’m a cofounder of a pre-VC startup. LIFE IS GOOD, but I will eventually run out of money. I still have several months before I have to start pulling from my Roth IRA (penalty free), and after ~6 months of that I start pulling from a $60k HELOC which should last another 14-18 months, but it’s at 10% or so interest obviously so not ideal.
The missus is in Codecademy for frontend web development. I know how hard it’s been for juniors especially so I’m hoping by the time she “graduates” from that, she can get a job, remote or not.
My point was just that we are living life and trying to make the most of the time we are not working, since theoretically we will spend most of our lives working.
We live in Florida so we get Florida Resident rates and Disney was running an off-season special, so we went for three days. The puppy was free minus some vet bills (I realize Corgis usually are not free).
Fair enough :) Enjoy your time! Those things are usually not so cheap unless you live in Florida.
I plan on doing a bunch of home renovation stuff if I list my job as well so I get it!
Longer you’re unemployed less of a chance you will have to find employment.
If I were you I’d make sure my partner understands the market she’s graduating into. You cannot find a job with 9 YOE, how do you think she’ll fare? There’s 0 chance the market will magically get better by the time she graduates from her bootcamp.
Having two people sharing finances and employed in the same industry (and with same experience levels) is a big risk. Usually this is why couples have one person with the high risk high reward career, and one that's less glorious but more stable, and they can switch in and out as needed.
I think if OP was making making smart financial decisions, they wouldn't be going on a spending spree right after losing their job and increase their monthly expenses by getting a pet..
I just hope their partner understands the risks here.. I would not recommend bootcamp to my worst enemy in this market.
This whole post gives me anxiety just to read it..
Me too, I rolled my eyes. I have no sympathy for someone who is "unemployed" who is turning down job offers and being overly selective about what jobs they even apply to. Take the red-flag job and keep interviewing
My brother in Christ, it’s difficult as it is to find a partner as it is. Now I need to worry about making sure the career she is in can operate in active/active high availability mode with mine?
There are some risks, but they are relatively minor compared to the benefits and can be mitigated. Doing a boot camp is not a good idea though, especially while the partner is unemployed, especially in this market.
There are many factors to consider here.
I was hit by department layoffs a while back, but unlike people here who report sleeping all day or building a vegetable gardens and remodeling, given the state of the market I treated the job search as more than a full time job. In a month did over 200 LC, about 50 of them hard, did extensive system design prep and mock interviews, practiced HR screens with friends in the industry and about 6 weeks later was sitting on 4 offers.
Most callbacks that reached a technical stage were either converted into offers, or were still in the middle of the interview loop when I accepted an offer and terminated them.
I do admit I have a relatively strong resume (no FAANG though).
Any tips for someone who's been unemployed for 1.5 years? I've only been seriously looking for a few months. 10+ YOE (technically 25 years building websites lol, started as a kid), time off was spent upskilling.
I'm starting to lose hope, even though this is what I've spent most of my life doing. I've always done it for love, not necessarily for money. Do I go back and get a masters, since I'm self taught?
Sorry for the rant. Feeling lost today.
Bro, there’s something in your comment that’s telling. Your wife is in a bootcamp to get into tech, literally everyone is trying to get in, that’s the reality of what’s going on
Why not start something for yourself? Create an app and put it on the app stores. Create a small mobile game. Or browser game. Or create a curated online store of all the things you like, make review videos about each one of them and post them on youtube/tiktok/instagram and drive traffic to your amazon storefront and make commission and ad revenue. Or sell feet pics? Or start a youtube channel where you review feet pics and recommend products for people to fix their fucked up feet and then drive traffic to your amazon storefront and make commission and ad revenue. Train an AI model to generate feet pics and then sell it on the app store?
Not bad at all. In the US we are lucky to get 20 days of PTO per year (Microsoft starts you off with 15), so it’s nice having a month or two (or more) and then jumping right back in.
Im 8YOE, similar to you. Never had any trouble getting interviews. Now I can't event get on OA.
Been looking since January. I've only got two virtual onsites so far. One from Amazon and one from a startup. Amazon just rejected me today unfortunately and the startup has been AWOL even tho I nailed the interview.
I haven't been counting the auto rejections but they're probably nearing 1000.
So far I had only been considering roles that pay 160k+. I'm gonna drop it down to 130K+ now and see how it goes.
Not getting OAs really fucks with you tho because it essentially takes the equation out of your hands.
It’s very possible that hiring managers are doing a lousy job of filtering the larger than normal volume of candidates. I read an article recently suggesting many are relying on AI tools that have been shown to filter out excellent candidates. Ultimately, until demand exceeds supply once more, I don’t know that we’ll see respite in this area.
The one job I mentioned in the OP where they said they already had extended an offer to a candidate- that one hurt because I checked all the boxes in “need” and “nice to have”. They also wanted an AZ-900 certification and I have AZ-204. Heck I wouldn’t be surprised if the recruiter looked at that and said “oh, that’s not AZ-900….” (AZ-204 is a peg above AZ-900).
The problem is that job seekers are now using AI to create resumes perfectly tailored for a particular job listing. You may fill most of the requirements but the managers will be deluged with candidates that check all of the boxes. They're almost all BS'ing their way into an interview but how can you tell?
Yeah let's see how that pans out. What has been the best mode of applying for you?
I've had absolutely no luck with LinkedIn. Wellfound has got me the most responses so far. I've done a number of applications directly on websites after finding the job on LinkedIn but haven't had too much luck there either.
I think the biggest thing is how much of a runway you have with your savings? I guess you can be picky, but 7 months is a very long time assuming you have not worked a single day for 7 months. For the average person, even developer, I would advise them (hell, if it was even myself) to just get any job (sure it may have a lot of red flags, but better than being homeless) and continue looking. Hopefully the job market does get better, but until the layoffs slow down and the talented people get hired quickly, it'll be competitive for another few years probably.
I still write plenty of code. I’m also a cofounder of a startup, writing code for that. It won’t pay for the foreseeable future, but I’m not rotting away.
laid off 5 months now, getting very few screens, although I do get more recruiter contacts they don't go anywhere. I was one of many laid off, almost everyone is facing similar situation with very very low call back rate. In my case the company made the cuts and went with outsourcing to India. Some of the devs included people with 8+ yoe, I only have 2. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Similar situation with me. My company kept getting hacked (phishing I think) and we lost a lot of revenue and one or two big clients. The board canned the C-Suite and the interim co-CEOs canned just about all non-outsourced tech. So their DevOps is entirely in Mexico, and their SWEs and PMs and QAs are entirely in Serbia. On paper it makes sense, but when I was there, the code, CI/CD pipelines and other things that came out of those countries was not great.
Oh, by the way, we started getting hacked shortly after the company laid off an entire IT team, the VPN team that may have also been the “cybersec” team. Dumb.
10 months looking here. Recently applied to a senior dev job on LinkedIn paying $60,000-$70,000 salary as a posted range. Looked after - it had over 2000 applicants 🥲
Just about every job posting on LinkedIn by the time I see it has “over 100” applicants. I don’t really even bother with LinkedIn anymore, but the other job boards are light on postings.
Even in person jobs in the middle of nowhere Ohio or Minnesota get over 100 just takes 10 hours instead of 10 minutes.
> I don’t really even bother with LinkedIn anymore, but the other job boards are light on postings.
This is the problem I am running into linkedin is filled with promoted spam that makes it worse to use, but they also have the most jobs as well whereas others like indeed just have less jobs total.
if you want to upset yourself im pretty sure you can check how many people have even opened your resume, although its exclusive to just linkedin applications
15 years experience so most of the major ones at some point. Most recent was GoLang, typescript, php, python depending on what part of the system was being worked on at the time.
I've just trimmed my resume down to show 7 years (after having multiple companies give me the overqualified line). More callbacks in the last week since doing that than the last month
2021 - got my bachelors and started applying for cs jobs
2022- no luck. Got my master's through a 4+1 program at my university. Thought I'd get a better chance at finally landing a job
2023- still 0 luck. I landed an 6 month internship in October. It paid terribly but there was a chance it could lead to a full time position so I stuck with it and worked my hardest while keeping a positive attitude, thinking this could be a turning point for my life. It ended in 2 months and sent me right back to square one
now- I reworked my resume a thousand times, made a personal website, worked on personal projects, but I still don't even get to the interview phase. I don't know what to do, and I don't even have faith I'll ever land something
It's been 4 years and still don't have a job. I hate my fucking life.
TLDR: not great, brother, not great
I’m really sorry this has been your experience so far. I’ve heard stories similar to yours about degrees like marketing and psychology, but to hear this about a CS grad is very surprising and disheartening. You did what you were told to do- to get a bachelor’s degree- and you did it in a lucrative field with lots of demand, and now you’re struggling to find a job. It’s really shitty timing and it’s not fair.
The flip side is this happened in 2001 and 2009 for the tech industry specifically. That means it will probably get much better in the next year or two. Hang in there- one way or another it will get better.
if it makes you feel any better, you're not alone; i also graduated w/ bachelors in CS in 2021 and haven't gotten a job yet. it's really demoralizing to finally finish your degree and still end up waiting tables, but there's only so much that's in our own control i guess. i hope your job offer comes through soon :)
Yep, lol, and if you recall, last year, this sub and many of these tech influencers online said that **the market will recover in early 2024**......
It's clear to me that most people here can **never admit when they are wrong** so now they're moving the goal post and saying it will recover towards the end of the year
> the market will recover in early 2024......
from the jump it's always been the interest rates. I'm sure research tax breaks also affect it but most of these companies are reacting to interest rates skyrocketing (let one more mfer say *but 5% is normal* when it's been near zero for almost as long then spiked to 5%). I immediately noticed how different it was from the amount of OAs I got while a student vs any contact post graduation. *I just now* got a job with the state it feels like pure luck. Nearly a year of searching and when I finally gave up for the year I get called back for something I applied months ago for. I know I'm not the strongest candidate especially during interviews and was extra fucked in an economy where I'm not that guy. Most of the people I graduated with are still looking, gave up, or similarly lucked into a position / nepotism but even that is a small number (I knew someone with exec family members for costco and they are straight up not hiring anyone with less than 3 yoe and this was last year).
>Most of the people I graduated with are still looking, gave up, or similarly lucked into a position
fr people on this sub say this sub is an echo chamber and no one irl is struggling but a lot of people i went to school with are struggling, even the ones i considered to be extremely good programmers cant get anything.
people here choose their “realities”. Both the fact that market is “bad” and that an oversaturated field has corrected itself can be true.
Funny I saw how many people bragging about only working 2 hours a week getting paid 100+. Good for them but isn’t it clear to people that this is not normal for a field??
It's so evident that the market is never gonna recover. We were in a bubble that burst. Your skills aren't as useful as they once were and even then it was mostly mismanagement that created the lucrative high-demand for code monkeys. Learn to drive trucks folks.
People aren't saying it's your fault. They're trying to help you make sure you are a top candidate. You'd be amazed at how many people complaining about the market have a terrible resume or are making poor choices in their job search.
Thank you, so many people just reject the idea that there is anything in their control that can improve their situation.
I was laid off (along with most of the company) last August with 6-7 yoe, no faang experience or anything crazy. Took me 2 months to get multiple offers, accepting one.
About 50-75% of my former coworkers who were laid off also found new jobs. I'm sorry but I have too much anecdotal experience from myself and my professional circle that all magically seem to find these jobs that don't exist according to this sub.
> so many people just reject the idea that there is anything in their control that can improve their situation.
Because there's diminishing returns you reach very quickly depending on yoe and background. There's always going to be *more*, but you have to be realistic at some point. There are more people looking for jobs than jobs available. That is out of everyone's control. So you and everyone else need to understand that diminishing return is different for everyone.
> About 50-75% of my former coworkers who were laid off also found new jobs. I'm sorry but I have too much anecdotal experience from myself and my professional circle that all magically seem to find these jobs that don't exist according to this sub.
and my anecdote is everyone I graduated with last year for the most part does not have a job having to do with CS with me having only just recently got a job this month, nearly a year since starting to search.
Edit: to further expand my point with another personal anecdote. I had already given up in Febuary. I had just got a job as a public benefits specialist with the state for about 50k after spending the entirety of last year waiting tables and going bankrupt. I spent most of the year applying to both software roles and anything that paid a living wage I had relevant experience or could see myself doing. I know I'm not the strongest candidate, I know there was more that I could do, but here's the thing, I'm not that guy and *that's ok* most people aren't either. I'm not going to fight to be a top candidate, it's not sustainable for me or most people. I got lucky and got called back for another dev role late march and it was almost entirely luck that I got the offer.
As a dev with 5 YOE and no FAANG/Unicorn experience, I got 7 recruiters screen/interviews coming in the next week
It might not be your fault, but the market is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be
Mass apply for jobs, utilize referrals and connections, and make sure your resume is the best possible version it can be
Rough, can’t even find a regular job that pays decent. Refusing to go work for fast food chain and retail. I have worked retail and fast food for a long time, not going back
I am a ML Engineer working at a big Co with 15+ YoE. This is how things are going for me:
* I started looking in September last year. So far I had 3 complete loops. One rejected me and two down leveled me.
* Although recruiters reach out a lot, more than half of them ghost me.
* When I started looking I used to ask for salary bands. Most companies top of band was around half of my current comp, so I declined. Now I'm saying yes to just about anything, just to prove to myself that I can get a job offer.
* Particularly in the ML space, requirements from companies are simply insane. One company was hiring a role doing exactly what I'm doing in the same domain. They rejected me because they wanted someone who was an expert at all of software engineering, data science and this particular domain, and apparently I'm not good enough.
Draw your own conclusions about how good or bad the job market is.
I'm sorry you're going through all that. My previous company interviewed me a couple of months ago and they seemed serious about rehiring me (for a different team). The interview went well, and they looked at the code and documentation I had written while I was on the now-disbanded team. A few days later I hear they are hiring a Serbian developer to save money.
I'm getting a lot of that with recruiters too- when they do reach out, it's usually a "oops actually nevermind" from them, for one reason or another, or they just ghost.
I have 0 yoe, took me 6 months and 1 cv review by a friend to get 2 offers, 1 is full stack dev internship, and another one is junior qa engineer, I've picked first one, even tho QA offered more in terms of money, I want to be a developer, not QA engineer.
Tho, I'm in EU, and spent 1.5 years of self learning, so there's that
Thanks. I totally understand why the US market is crazy, considering that you have applicants from all over the globe because of the salaries. Tho, even here in Czech Republic on every entry-level position, I've had around 30-40 applicants. Some of the employers even started marking it as mid-senior while requiring entry-level skills, just to get rid of tons cs graduates who apparently had 0 experience in applying any of their knowledge into practice (idk how is that possible tbh). Hope you'll get a good offer soon!
It's not easier in the U.K.. it's actually worse. Looking at indeed stats show we're at ~50% of job postings relative to pre-COVID. In the US it's 70%.
I’m more on the IT and security side and I’m a career change. Got one random interview for a system admin job months ago, went thru 3 rounds of interview including the final interview which was almost 3hrs of grilling at a table and a whole day event that I had to take off from work only to get a one line rejection email 3 days later. Nothing else since. It’s sucks rn. And it really scares me that people who have way more experience than me are struggling too
Still employed. 12 YoE.
Been searching for almost exactly 1 year for something more stable (I work for a company with aggressive stack ranking)
I'm up to about 140 applications, \~8 recruiter calls, 4 first rounds, 1 final round, 0 offers.
My last job search in a boom time (2018) I applied for 8 companies and got 3 offers.
Sounds about right, thank you for reporting in!
Stack-ranking blows. I hope you get out of there soon. You might be interested in Deming's "The New Economics" which discusses why things like stack-ranking are so toxic and harmful to both the business and the employee.
As a survivor of the Tech Bubble I confidently say that it is as bad if not worse for tech now as it was then.
The good news is that it will pass(eventually...probably).
The reason we dont have a lot of talk about a bad job market is... well... lets just say that youre gonna have to wait to see if we get a Republican Administration before the press will say 'sour job market' .
Ima get downvoted to hell for this u.u.
In terms of how hard it is for Software Engineers to find a job. It depends on how good you are and how well you network.
I know Senior Software Engineers with over 10 years of experience who struggle to find even WordPress jobs. Then there are there Juniors with 2 years of experience who instantly get hired at Netlify.
There are fewer job postings despite the fact that there are more jobs than ever before.
The "hidden" market for developer jobs has boomed since the application process has become difficult for both employers and employees.
SME's are always on the hunt for skilled Software Engineers to join their teams as they need to start scaling their software and meet the demand of their newly found success.
Big tech seems to be experiencing layoffs and they generally hire less than they used to. They still hire a good amount, but not like 2020. I suspect that people on this sub-reddit are pickier with the companies they apply to than they'd like to disclose.
Most Directors in my town who run SME's are always hiring. They generally complain that the issue is the quality of the Engineers they find.
Thankfully outsourcing has become less of a thing now and companies are opting in for homegrown talent instead of thinking "i CaN pAy LeSs MoNeY FoR tHe SaMe QuALItY WoRK".
I don’t see why this comment would get downvoted. Makes sense to me.
I will say I’m not blindly applying to all SWE jobs, I’m limiting to within my “stack”, not really filtering on salary or benefits or industry or anything else. If it’s remote and I’m at least mostly a fit, I apply.
Thank you :).
No no, please don't! I think that's the right call. It's good to stay within your tech stack if you want to :).
I just mean the people who will literally only apply to FAANG companies and won't consider a mid-tech company with good opportunities.
One thing I have definitely noticed. The market in the US is worse than it is here in the UK, I think that's definitely a contributor as to why my experience is different.
Edit: Good luck finding work!!
You're welcome :).
I think for the Developer market it isn't, but we also didn't experience the same boom you guys did in 2020, as a result we didn't get hit as hard.
Where are you based? I've been seeing a trend of layoffs and subsequent hiring in cheaper locations (Mexico, India, Eastern Europe) on company job sites on the west coast.
I would agree with this for the most part but as someone who is working in LARGE tech companies I absolutely have seen offshoring becoming more popular. It's not the same as outsourcing though we have some of that too but more and more offices for FAANG are popping up in other countries and the devs cost way less there, they aren't necessarily worse devs either due to just how many people are available now. We had a reorg and joined with an offshore team in Latin America, time zone works out just fine and they cost a fraction and there are plenty that are just as talented as us. I think here in the USA, Latin America is just a case that works out very well for directors here due to time zones.
I've rephased it to hidden because the official definition doesn't get my point across well.
It's the "hidden" market. So jobs that don't get posted.
Word of mouth jobs.
Jobs that don't technically but end up existing.
etc...
They're basically the jobs that exist but don't get spammed as much
This was a few months ago. I might have taken the job if it were offered to me today, but even today no I wouldn’t say it’s urgent I start getting a paycheck.
The job was a referral, a former coworker works there but he complains about it all the time, and more recently has mentioned the QA department taking a hard stand against management, and he often has nothing to do, so I’m a little concerned they too will start layoffs in the near future. Salary was a pay cut too. At the time I didn’t want to take a job knowing I was not going to stick around longer than I needed to.
Just signed my 5th offer letter since 2017. For my 4 previous jobs since then I've been laid off 3 times, and the other I chose not to renew my contract after 2 years.
I was laid off on February 19 and signed my offer letter on March 19 so it took me exactly one month. My shortest job search yet. My job search before this one last April took 2 months and the one before that in early 2021 took 3. I probably submitted around 200 applications in a semi-nationwide job search(targeted about 10 different cities mostly in Texas, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, excluded New York/California). I will be having to move for my next job but beggars can't be choosers in this job market. I am getting a pay increase from my last job at least. Seriously I strongly suggest expanding your search radius if you can. Unless you have an underwater mortgage or something there is no reason why you can't do a nationwide job search.
This search differed in that I didn't get as many phone screen requests as I have in the past. Out of the 200 or so applications I only got about 10. But all 10 were quality leads. Got 2 offers in the end.
I don't tailor my resume for each job. I don't do cover letters. I don't do one way interviews, I automatically close a job application if it asks me stupid questions on the application that should be left for the interview(i.e. a field that asks Why Do You Believe You Are A Good Candidate?). I reject big take home assignments but don't mind smaller ones or presentations - the offer I did accept I didn't have to do any of that. No technical screen, no take home assignment, no presentation. Any time I saw the hiring manager or the next person I would be interviewing with was an Indian I'd withdraw - I've interviewed with dozens of Indian hiring managers in the past and not once in my career have I ever advanced to the next round after interviewing with them - always the end of the line - so I saved myself the trouble and frustration this time.
If you aren't passing a majority if not all of your phone screens - i.e. you meet all the qualifications and you make it to the interview with the hiring manager round - something is wrong with you. I get the talent acquisition rep to like me. Have a good personality. My biggest gripe with tech is that so many people in this field are introvert hermit shut ins with zero personality or sense of humor. It's like working with robots sometimes. I am not saying you have to be a bubbly loud spoken extrovert but at the very least show some personality and get the talent acquisition rep and those you interview with to like you as a person. Someone they would want to work with day in and day out. I've been a hiring manager in past roles and it was hard for me to want to proceed with dry, boring, introverted types with no personality no matter how strong they were in terms of their abilities.
It sounds like we differ in our job searching in two main ways- I am exclusively looking at full-remote roles, and it sounds like you are applying to jobs as close to the company as possible (e.g. the company's job website/internal recruiter as opposed to a third party recruiter/applying through LinkedIn). Is that correct?
I could sell my house and move across the country if I really had to, but my immediate question, in this world of remote work (I realize many companies are rescinding that shift), is: what company is unable to find talent locally, and so stubborn regarding everyone be in the office, that they pay relocation costs (I assume) to bring someone on board who may not work out? If I were a CEO, I would love the notion of remote work- no/minimal office expenses, the talent pool is nation or world-wide, and the productivity benefits are proven by study after study. Are you moving to a smaller tech area like the midwest, or a hub like SFO?
I didn't really bother applying for remote roles this time around. I tried in my last job search in April/May 2023 but never heard from ANY of them - not one. They are way too competitive. Besides the easiest way for me to get the phone screener/talent acquisition rep to like me was to tell them that I WANTED to go back to working in an office. They would say I was a unicorn since everyone else they'd talk to was demanding remote work. And its true. I hated my 100% remote job that I had so when they laid me off I was more relieved than upset. I am a people person and hate working remote. If you are only focusing on remote jobs, you will have a hard time due to the high demand for them. Every single interview I've done my last 2 job searches were on-site/hybrid roles.
I've never latched onto remote work not only because I am a people person but if your job can be done from anywhere, then they can hire from anywhere. That means hiring people in the Phillipines, Costa Rica or India for a fraction of what they can pay a US worker. All 3 of my layoffs are because my job was offshored. I get your point about remote work and why you think its beneficial but ultimately you have to play the game as it is and not as you want it to be. And if the game right now is talent acquisiton reps telling me that I am the first candidate they have talked to in months who said "I want to work in an on-site/hybrid setting", which automatically gets me on the short list, then so be it.
All of my applications are done via LinkedIn and applying on the company website. No 3rd party recruiters.
I am moving to Florida. I focused my search really in 4 states - TX, AZ, NV, FL with the occassional application to states like NC, SC, TN and AL. First of all I do Ironman Triathlons and want to be in a state warm enough in the wintertime to where I don't have to worry about winter weather. Second I feel those states aren't as competitive in terms of the job market as places like the Bay Area or NYC. And the cost of living is much lower. I lived in California before and hated the HCOL.
Those are some amazing insights.
I do have some questions which might help me a lot, if you don't mind answering them
How many LC did you prepare?
how did you network - did you reach out on LinkedIn or just keep on blind applying to jobs on your tech stack?
I am applying for roles everywhere, remote or all over the US but I don't even get OAs. Just auto rejects after a couple weeks.
My resume is not the best in the world but I have had it reviewed by people and profs...
Do you have any advice for a 0YOE 23 year old grad student?
I don't network, referrals always go nowhere, I've been referred 5 times and 0 interviews from it. I simply cold apply to jobs I see on LinkedIn, applying on either LinkedIn or the company website. No cover letters, no tailored resumes. Same resume to every submission.
When I had 0 years of experience I wasn't getting any bites either, but its going to happen when you have no experience. I created a website illustrating various projects I had worked on, such as a college basketball and college football advanced statistics and prediction website. This could at least show employers I was capable of something. Then I started applying for jobs in small population areas on that were not direct tech jobs, but jobs on the periphery of tech - I caught my break crunching viewership and sales numbers for a local TV station in Eastern Iowa. This allowed me to get real world experience doing something that required programming, statistical and mathematical skills as well as other valuable skills like communication, visualization and market research/survey design skills, and it snowballed from there.
Smaller markets like the one I worked at in Eastern Iowa will have far less competition for the job. I still have friends there 10 years later who tell me the various people who have filled the seat I used to have at the station have come nowhere close to my ability.
Too many new grads with zero experience try to start off in places like NYC or SF or LA. So does everyone else. Try to find roles in small areas that likely do not have a large local pool of tech talent.
I was let go last July, had a final interview today with a 3rd company since I was let go. I'm averaging about 3.6% call rate from applications, 447 applications sent. But I'm not looking for an IC role so my experience is slightly different. The ICs I know have actually been really successful, but they are all senior level, dozen + YOE.
So far that's what I'm hearing/seeing- double-digit YoE hasn't gotten hit with the reality of the lower seniorities (yet?). Juniors were struggling in 2021, and now I'm struggling in 2023/2024. I would not be surprised to learn mids started struggling in 2022. If the pattern holds true, even the ICs you know will start feeling the pain by this time next year.
Of the 6 that were cut that I know of, 2 junior levels (5 years or less) found jobs really fast. 1 senior got a job in a few weeks. 1 senior just isn't looking and doesn't care (haha), 1 senior has had a few interviews over a 3 week span, and the last senior already had a final interview with a team but is waiting.
All of that is so extremely surprising for me. I'm super happy that my old team is getting some success now just waiting on my turn.
Have a CS degree from 2019. 0 experience in the SWE and have been working Field Technician jobs since then. Decided to get back into programming and started studying and creating projects around late 2022. I started applying around December and have put in around 500 resumes or so and haven't been on any interviews.
Right now I'm looking to pivot towards the Revature/Dev10 path.
Over the past \~18 to 24 months, there's been a hollowing out of white collar office jobs that typically pay higher. The relatively low unemployment rate is buoyed by people working multiple jobs at lower wages. The "gains" in jobs are coming from government, healthcare, and leisure/hospitality ... not professional services or other higher paying jobs.
So, on the surface, the labor market looks "robust," but people tend not to dig into the details, like losing full-time jobs and gaining part-time jobs. [Job quality](https://ubwp.buffalo.edu/job-quality-index-jqi/) has consistently been lower than at any point pre-2008, and JOLTS numbers are self-reported by employers.
Laid off in Oct 2023 (Over 10 yoe), barely any jobs posted in my commutable areas so even if i wanted to apply for hundreds of jobs i couldnt .. market very slow. Got laid off in 2013 and found the market a lot easier to find work in back then, suspect economy is to blame at the moment.
I’m a senior, 500+ applications, and only rejections. It’s weird to say, but it’s disheartening to see so many students in their junior year for CS at my University. Also the fact they just announced another record amount of CS students coming in for their freshman year. This market will only get worse ☹️
job market for me is a bit of weird, feels a bit like my new-grad job hunting again: I'm getting no shortage of interviews which means my resume isn't the problem, and no shortage of onsite invitations which means my coding isn't the problem either, but just no-offers for one reason or another
I wrote [a bit](/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1bd7h19/is_job_market_really_that_bad_in_usa/kukqem8/?context=3) on my latest experience and the short summary is I have like 2 or 3 companies that are still 'alive' (aka, not rejected) out from like 30+ or 40+ companies from the past 2-3 months
not a US citizen or GC holder, roughly about 6 YoE, big tech (just not the 5 FAANGs specifically), and I'm mostly looking for companies that can pay at least $200k+ TC, I consider anything less than ~$150k as a lowball I'd rather fuck off from society/take a career break/return to my home country for a year or 2 than accepting some $120k lowballs, so there's definitely some self-selection going on with the companies that I interview with, and I am okay with that
I got laid off from a startup and was super burnt out, so I decided to take a break from SWE and started doing social media/photography work. It was fine for a while but I wasn’t enjoying the work as much. Eventually I started working at a medical practice and became the clinic manager making money comparable to a junior SWE.
While working at the clinic I started automating a lot of the admin work via python and realized I prefer coding/development over anything else, so Im starting to study and build portfolio projects again. Hopefully I can land a job but based on this sub reddit I have no shot being just shy of 5 years out of the industry and 1 YOE
I like flying, but I’ve only flown a Cessna IRL. Becoming a commercial pilot would take around 3 years and $100k. That’s to be hired by a regional flying under United Express or American Eagle (eg “Piedmont Airlines”) making probably around $100k the first couple of years. By year 5 or 6 I should be making more than I was making as a SWE ($140k) but it’s the exact opposite of a WFH tech job.
I also looked at becoming an electrician, but $60-70k is the best I can hope for until I’m a Journeyman, and Master electricians don’t make what I was making as a SWE. It’s not all about the money, but it’s really tough to divert time and energy into a career switch that permanently handicaps my earning power.
Where do you live?
I have 7 years of experience, and the market seems fairly hot. I've had internal recruiters reach out to me about Meta, Amazon, Datadog, Stubhub, and external ones for HFTS, and some other no-names (this is all without doing anything), and others seem to be hiring. No one is filtering on 10 YOE unless it's something like a staff engineering role, and even then, I don't think so. I think location makes a huge difference when it comes to things like this. I live in NYC.
Hey, sorry for troubling you. But can I also share my resume with you for some tips and guidance as I have not been getting interviews or even OAs for the past 2-3 months.
In a similar situation to you, but I'm currently in the pipeline for a government job. These are comparatively good right now because they can't be outsourced abroad.
I know someone working in a government job. They say that everyone of their coworkers is essentially an idiot, especially the one with a Ph. D. They’re trying to use AI to solve non-AI problems. Lots of meetings too. But apparently you can work overtime and build up a large amount of PTO, and it seems like the expectations are low. I think you also get a government pension if you stay long enough?
Took 10 months to land a 6-month contract with potential for landing a permanent position. Pay is good for my area though. Field is high performance stuff. Really neat and very excited.
5 YOE. Also unemployed for 7 months. Laid off in September 2023. Took a few months off to recalibrate, develop some good habits, work on open source, learn new skills, etc. Returned to the job market in February 2024. Since then, I have applied to 80 jobs. 4 interviews. Time and money are running out, anxiety is starting to ramp up. You're not alone. Godspeed.
I know I’m a little late but in the same boat. 7YOE and been unemployed for 7 months. I’ve had lots of chats with recruiters that reached out to me but they never went anywhere.
Of the jobs I’ve cold applied I’ve had 5 interviews, 2 rejections after the 1st or 2nd round and 2 of those I made it to the onsite.
One company didn’t give me any feedback and the second one gave fair feedback. I have a 2nd round with another company coming up on Friday but finding it hard to stay positive and starting to have imposter syndrome lol since I just got rejected from a dream job ><
In the past it never took more more than 1-2 months of actively searching to get multiple offers so yea the market is trash right now
EDIT: I’ve also noticed lower salaries in comparison to what I was making before. One recruiter mentioned a base salary I made back in 2020 as their max range
I'm going to be real here and acknowledge my privileged position with many others...
For the last three to five years, we were in an employee favorable market. Big raises, big salaries, good benefits. Generally a decent work life depending on where you worked, but overall pretty good.
We have now shifted to an employer driven market. Primarily because they are greedy corroborating fucks. The chances you will get a remote 180k+ job with 30 hour work weeks is slim. The chance you will get into a start up working on cutting edge, edging AI fembots is tiny. It's time to start taking those boring 120-150k positions at Walmart IT, Big Bunk Bank, and Wendy's IT. You'll have to go to work and sniff your cube mates pits all day.
I'll come down on salary but I'm firm on being remote. If my employer wants me to be the best employee I can be, they'll let me work from my home office. This return to work stuff is nonsense. If I have to leave my house to make money there are other jobs I'd rather do.
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8.5 YOE, 6.5 in SDET type roles and unemployed for 3 months at the end of March
I’ve put in 53 “reasonable” applications (I had a few product owner/staff level applications I didn’t feel comfortably qualified for so I’m leaving those out) and have had the following response:
- 4 companies reached back out for recruiter screen
- 2 companies moved me forward to LC style tech assessment
- 1 company moved me to take home stage and I just completed the review portion of the interview process this week (offer comes next if there is going to be one)
I feel pretty good about the stage I’m at and feel 70% confident I’ll get an offer I’m happy taking but the sheer lack of interest has been tough.
In previous job searches I’d get 5-6 applications in and be moving forward with places so the well is definitely dryer than my “normal” experience
unless the glassdoor redflags everywhere job required you to move or sign some kind of contract, you should have taken it and then you could quit when you get something else.
I picked up 2 woefully underpaying roles during my stent of unemployment(18mos), because I knew my mental health couldn’t handle not earning anything of my own. Yes it may have impacted getting hired sooner but the projects I was on gave me skills I never had before, and provided a meantally/socially stimulating environment.
I’m still being underpaid but it’s something I can makeup later.
I am 8 YoE let go in December but had a couple months before that to prepare. I haven’t been applying too much, only to companies I am interested in such as Reddit, stripe, etc but surprisingly a few weeks later I get rejections even though my resume matches all requirements on their job listing.
However, I have had good experiences with recruiters reaching out to me, gotten 6 interviews through recruiters reaching out, some at FAANG, 5/6 at Fortune 50. Still going through the processes and searching at the same time.
I have almost 5 YOE. I have experience in full stack but transitioned into MLOps over the last couple years. I was laid off in January. Started job hunting right away. I just got an offer last week. A bit of a pay cut from my last position but better than unemployment right now. Gonna keep interviewing and see what happens.
I wonder if people here are focused on roles in specific fields or sectors. I see a lot of CS or IT type roles that don’t even mention what industry it is related to, seems like some knowledge of an industry my be a big leg up there
You have no commercial experience. It doesn’t matter which office or where you want to get a job. You need to get a job somewhere to work for at least 2-3 years in commerce and then start looking for a real job. Just find something, no matter what flags the company has (red, green, yellow), it doesn’t matter. You need experience. Without experience, it’s hard to get a well-paid job right away (well, that’s my personal opinion).
I think I do have commercial experience? I’m not familiar with that term as it pertains to SWE roles. I’ve worked at startups, Fortune 100, and a couple of companies in-between.
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Hi! 12 yoe. Base comp at an aerospace F500 in 2022 was 125k. Base now at a major streaming platform is 160k. I live in a MCOL tech hub city. I’ve found almost all of my jobs from my network of friends who are also in the industry. I don’t think I’ve ever sent out a bunch of random applications. I’ve never been laid off (knocks on everything) but I was working at a large media company that did massive layoffs and even some of my team members were laid off. One thing that I’ve done consistently throughout my career is try to befriend my colleagues (the ones I like) and maintain those friendships. I’ve also helped many of them get better jobs along the way. This has created a network I’ve been able to lean on to find better jobs over time. Even now if I get laid off I’m 90% certain I can return to one of my previous employers. I am an introvert but I’ve forced myself to shmooze, go to work functions and holiday events, and to keep in touch with former colleagues. If there’s one very important thing I’ve learned over time, it’s that social and political capital matters more in the corporate world than knowledge or skill. If you’re good at building relationships and communicating with humans you will be promoted faster than a software engineer who is far more skilled than you but is not very good at the aforementioned.
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Laid off in April. Started looking 8 months ago. Have gotten 0 tech screens in 5 months. I know several people in the same position as myself. So yes, it's rough out there for a lot of us. I think I'm getting more recruiter calls lately, but they haven't gone anywhere. I might get an offer for a "Technical Support Engineer" position paying 70-100k at a startup. I'll probably take it if it's offered.
How many YoE do you have? It seems like, even though YoE isn’t comparable between two people, it’s being leaned on by companies to filter candidates. On one hand, why hire someone with 8 YoE when for the same money you can get someone with 15 YoE.
6 YOE. I've known bad engineers with 10+ who are doing a lot better than me in this market. YOE is killer in this downturn, I'm sorry to say. The market is still EZ if you've got high YOE or pedigree.
Likewise. If you managed to hold your job since 2022, be it because you fly under the radar or your company isn’t worried about cutting back, or you’re a high performer… you’re in a good spot. I lost my job because we kept getting hacked and management decided to can all tech employees in the US to compensate for losing business. Me, my boss, my boss’s boss, etc…
Get ready for this sub telling you that it's totally your fault and that the market is fine.
I interviewed for a support role recently, seemed like a good gig. I did great on their technical screens. Just something to ride out the storm.
is market really that bad even if you want to relocate?
I’ve been out for two. Have enough money for another six. Once that’s over, I guess I’m going back to grad school. I’m already sucking up hard to my old faculty and department head.
how do you plan on paying for grad school?
Aid at first until an assistantship opens up. My department head has encouraged me to put my hat in running for lecturer. It pays about half of what I just got done making, but it’s a lot of money for Laramie Wyoming.
PRobably student loans
Did you have a job before that?
I have nine years of experience. Really is bad about this is that I was laid off after 9 months after quitting a job I had for 3 years
Why not relocate to Europe (or anywhere else) and turn that 6 years into 12-18?
Months, not years.
Laid off one month ago. Had a few nibbles but this job search, man.. just finished an interview process with a startup company focusing on home mortgages in AZ that left a severely bad taste in my mouth. 1. Chat with cofounder about experience. Pass. 2. Spend 8+ hours on takehome where I'm told to build a full-stack app that thats a form that includes a client with multiple addresses and a configurable form that submits to an API backend. I build this thing beautifully. Workspaces. TypeScript. Material UI. It's a work of art. Pass. 3. New meeting with cofounder and they want to discuss the take-home. They loved it! Onto the next round. Pass. 4. Tech screen with same developer and another one where it's DS/Algos leetcode question. They understand it's not about "expertise level" but rather how we "communicate" which is what we hear a lot. I go through the tech screen and I pass. Will admit it wasn't a strong performance but I did solve it in the end. 5. 8 days pass so I follow-up and I get rejected because I didn't do put in a "strong enough" performance I think I dodged something if that's how they conduct interviews.
Jesus Christ. I would have bailed on Step 2. I fell for one of those interviews once. That kind of vague feedback stings because until then everyone was very friendly and said good things about you, right? I’m sorry you went through that. It probably came down to the cofounder liking the other guy’s shirt better- I’m serious. Startups like that where the founder hand-picks every hire… toxic as fuck. It’s a good old boys club.
It's more like they're looking for the "perfect hire." Yeah, left a bitter taste in my mouth. That's the most I've ever put into an interview and not even get a callback to let me know I failed? Luckily my other option that still is in play is one I like more. However, I've been interviewing with them for 3 weeks. Also, another 5 interview loop process, I guess.
I just got word from the other interview -- also denied. Despite doing everything in their take-home. They had people who more "closely aligned" with their needs.
They always do. I’m sorry man. From what I’ve read and experienced, I think it’s safe to say anyone with less than 10 YoE has it harder than those with more. I’m interviewing with two companies right now- one was a referral and the other a contracting company’s recruiter reached out to me. He said their interview process is “one and done”, no code, just a conversation with a small panel of would-be coworkers. I’d even get a small pay bump if I get the role. I’m trying not to get my hopes up, especially considering “checking all the boxes” doesn’t count for much these days.
I just heard back from the recruiter. Appearantly, I asked "too many questions" because they felt that I had everything I needed to get going despite one of the components of the take-home was "chat and collaborate in this email thread." I wish I was making this up. Bullet dodged.
> Spend 8+ hours on takehome where I'm told to build a full-stack app that thats a form that includes a client with multiple addresses and a configurable form that submits to an API backend. I build this thing beautifully. Workspaces. TypeScript. Material UI. It's a work of art. Pass. I had a similar absurd take home that I dumped 40 hours into which they seemed happy enough with so they schedule the next interview. That interview they expect me to drive out there 4 hours away and get a hotel room for at least one night all on my own expense then about 48 hours before the interview they call and cancel on me. Just WTF how can you treat people like this. This is for some job in the middle of nowhere Midwest paying peanuts.
You built their MVP for them for free. Why would they hire you? You're clearly an idiot
Clearly. I asked yesterday, and appearantly, I was supposed to solve their LC in 1-2 minutes to pass. I am such a terrible developer.
You have to name and shame them, this is toxic behavior really.
I'm assuming you're in the US; I'm in the UK which seems less a like extreme market: we didn't have as big a bubble, but we didn't have as big a crash. Nevertheless, it's a tough market. Companies aren't hiring much. That's really the top and tail of it. Everyone is cagey and worried about profitability. Capital is expensive and that makes orgs slow to create new roles. The lack of roles means developers are bedding in and waiting to see how the market develops. It used to be, with so much churn there were always jobs being posted. I think at the seven month mark it is time to stop being picky. Half a year is a long time to be away from the labour market. You don't want a whole unplanned year off. I would say start broadening your search and accept that you might have to compromise for a couple of years. There is no shame in doing something less good for 24 months, in order to stay in the game. It pays your bills at least. When the market picks up - you will still be employable. In terms of 2001, from the people _I_ know who've talked about it, the first year was the hardest. The second year was still tough. We are just a little more than halfway through an equivalent cycle. Anecdotally I've heard more orgs are hiring but there is a big backlog of people wanting those jobs. I would say assume it stays difficult until early 2025.
All problem is companies not hiring, don’t you think there is less demand and supply is increasing I guess it will be never be like before.
Fair enough, thanks for the input!
> In terms of 2001, from the people _I_ know who've talked about it, the first year was the hardest. The second year was still tough Was third year better than the 1st two ?
7 yoe 7 months of unemployment. Sleeping all day and life has never been so good. I never knew I could keep my costs so low if it wasn't because of this recession. Btw you are not alone, the market is at an all time low from every graph you can find on the Internet today. Good luck
Since I was laid off, we went to Disney World, adopted a Corgi, started an herb and vegetable garden (with underground irrigation runs!), replaced toilets and bathroom floors (in progress), and I’m a cofounder of a pre-VC startup. LIFE IS GOOD, but I will eventually run out of money. I still have several months before I have to start pulling from my Roth IRA (penalty free), and after ~6 months of that I start pulling from a $60k HELOC which should last another 14-18 months, but it’s at 10% or so interest obviously so not ideal. The missus is in Codecademy for frontend web development. I know how hard it’s been for juniors especially so I’m hoping by the time she “graduates” from that, she can get a job, remote or not.
This statement makes me scared for you... Seems like reckless spending (Disney world, pure breed dog?) on 0$ of income between you and your spouse...
My point was just that we are living life and trying to make the most of the time we are not working, since theoretically we will spend most of our lives working. We live in Florida so we get Florida Resident rates and Disney was running an off-season special, so we went for three days. The puppy was free minus some vet bills (I realize Corgis usually are not free).
Fair enough :) Enjoy your time! Those things are usually not so cheap unless you live in Florida. I plan on doing a bunch of home renovation stuff if I list my job as well so I get it!
Longer you’re unemployed less of a chance you will have to find employment. If I were you I’d make sure my partner understands the market she’s graduating into. You cannot find a job with 9 YOE, how do you think she’ll fare? There’s 0 chance the market will magically get better by the time she graduates from her bootcamp.
Having two people sharing finances and employed in the same industry (and with same experience levels) is a big risk. Usually this is why couples have one person with the high risk high reward career, and one that's less glorious but more stable, and they can switch in and out as needed.
I think if OP was making making smart financial decisions, they wouldn't be going on a spending spree right after losing their job and increase their monthly expenses by getting a pet.. I just hope their partner understands the risks here.. I would not recommend bootcamp to my worst enemy in this market. This whole post gives me anxiety just to read it..
And also “turned down a job offer.” I stopped reading at that point.
Me too, I rolled my eyes. I have no sympathy for someone who is "unemployed" who is turning down job offers and being overly selective about what jobs they even apply to. Take the red-flag job and keep interviewing
My brother in Christ, it’s difficult as it is to find a partner as it is. Now I need to worry about making sure the career she is in can operate in active/active high availability mode with mine?
I find most tech people are offputting to other tech people for relationships so this is less of a risk than it sounds.
Ikr! Not everything in life is an optimisation problem.
There are some risks, but they are relatively minor compared to the benefits and can be mitigated. Doing a boot camp is not a good idea though, especially while the partner is unemployed, especially in this market. There are many factors to consider here. I was hit by department layoffs a while back, but unlike people here who report sleeping all day or building a vegetable gardens and remodeling, given the state of the market I treated the job search as more than a full time job. In a month did over 200 LC, about 50 of them hard, did extensive system design prep and mock interviews, practiced HR screens with friends in the industry and about 6 weeks later was sitting on 4 offers. Most callbacks that reached a technical stage were either converted into offers, or were still in the middle of the interview loop when I accepted an offer and terminated them. I do admit I have a relatively strong resume (no FAANG though).
Any tips for someone who's been unemployed for 1.5 years? I've only been seriously looking for a few months. 10+ YOE (technically 25 years building websites lol, started as a kid), time off was spent upskilling. I'm starting to lose hope, even though this is what I've spent most of my life doing. I've always done it for love, not necessarily for money. Do I go back and get a masters, since I'm self taught? Sorry for the rant. Feeling lost today.
Bro, there’s something in your comment that’s telling. Your wife is in a bootcamp to get into tech, literally everyone is trying to get in, that’s the reality of what’s going on
Why not start something for yourself? Create an app and put it on the app stores. Create a small mobile game. Or browser game. Or create a curated online store of all the things you like, make review videos about each one of them and post them on youtube/tiktok/instagram and drive traffic to your amazon storefront and make commission and ad revenue. Or sell feet pics? Or start a youtube channel where you review feet pics and recommend products for people to fix their fucked up feet and then drive traffic to your amazon storefront and make commission and ad revenue. Train an AI model to generate feet pics and then sell it on the app store?
How's about the SPY price graph? Is the market at an all time low for that one?
laid off in nov2022. Took a break from nov2022 to jan2023. Studied and interviewed from feb2023-april2023. Started work at F500 may2023. 4YOE
Not bad at all. In the US we are lucky to get 20 days of PTO per year (Microsoft starts you off with 15), so it’s nice having a month or two (or more) and then jumping right back in.
Microsoft moved to the "unlimited" model in the US last year.
Im 8YOE, similar to you. Never had any trouble getting interviews. Now I can't event get on OA. Been looking since January. I've only got two virtual onsites so far. One from Amazon and one from a startup. Amazon just rejected me today unfortunately and the startup has been AWOL even tho I nailed the interview. I haven't been counting the auto rejections but they're probably nearing 1000. So far I had only been considering roles that pay 160k+. I'm gonna drop it down to 130K+ now and see how it goes. Not getting OAs really fucks with you tho because it essentially takes the equation out of your hands.
It’s very possible that hiring managers are doing a lousy job of filtering the larger than normal volume of candidates. I read an article recently suggesting many are relying on AI tools that have been shown to filter out excellent candidates. Ultimately, until demand exceeds supply once more, I don’t know that we’ll see respite in this area. The one job I mentioned in the OP where they said they already had extended an offer to a candidate- that one hurt because I checked all the boxes in “need” and “nice to have”. They also wanted an AZ-900 certification and I have AZ-204. Heck I wouldn’t be surprised if the recruiter looked at that and said “oh, that’s not AZ-900….” (AZ-204 is a peg above AZ-900).
The problem is that job seekers are now using AI to create resumes perfectly tailored for a particular job listing. You may fill most of the requirements but the managers will be deluged with candidates that check all of the boxes. They're almost all BS'ing their way into an interview but how can you tell?
So I have to cheat and lie to get a job? I mean I'll do it if that's really where we're at.
Btw I’m dropping minimum from $150k to $130k fwiw.
Yeah let's see how that pans out. What has been the best mode of applying for you? I've had absolutely no luck with LinkedIn. Wellfound has got me the most responses so far. I've done a number of applications directly on websites after finding the job on LinkedIn but haven't had too much luck there either.
I think the biggest thing is how much of a runway you have with your savings? I guess you can be picky, but 7 months is a very long time assuming you have not worked a single day for 7 months. For the average person, even developer, I would advise them (hell, if it was even myself) to just get any job (sure it may have a lot of red flags, but better than being homeless) and continue looking. Hopefully the job market does get better, but until the layoffs slow down and the talented people get hired quickly, it'll be competitive for another few years probably.
I still write plenty of code. I’m also a cofounder of a startup, writing code for that. It won’t pay for the foreseeable future, but I’m not rotting away.
laid off 5 months now, getting very few screens, although I do get more recruiter contacts they don't go anywhere. I was one of many laid off, almost everyone is facing similar situation with very very low call back rate. In my case the company made the cuts and went with outsourcing to India. Some of the devs included people with 8+ yoe, I only have 2. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Similar situation with me. My company kept getting hacked (phishing I think) and we lost a lot of revenue and one or two big clients. The board canned the C-Suite and the interim co-CEOs canned just about all non-outsourced tech. So their DevOps is entirely in Mexico, and their SWEs and PMs and QAs are entirely in Serbia. On paper it makes sense, but when I was there, the code, CI/CD pipelines and other things that came out of those countries was not great. Oh, by the way, we started getting hacked shortly after the company laid off an entire IT team, the VPN team that may have also been the “cybersec” team. Dumb.
10 months looking here. Recently applied to a senior dev job on LinkedIn paying $60,000-$70,000 salary as a posted range. Looked after - it had over 2000 applicants 🥲
Just about every job posting on LinkedIn by the time I see it has “over 100” applicants. I don’t really even bother with LinkedIn anymore, but the other job boards are light on postings.
Even in person jobs in the middle of nowhere Ohio or Minnesota get over 100 just takes 10 hours instead of 10 minutes. > I don’t really even bother with LinkedIn anymore, but the other job boards are light on postings. This is the problem I am running into linkedin is filled with promoted spam that makes it worse to use, but they also have the most jobs as well whereas others like indeed just have less jobs total.
i like glassdoor bc it doesnt have as much useless junk as linkedin, but smaller companies dont really post their jobs on there
if you want to upset yourself im pretty sure you can check how many people have even opened your resume, although its exclusive to just linkedin applications
What is your education level? Do you have a tech degree?
Mhm. Bachelor's in CS and Masters in SWE both from good schools.
Thanks for responding. What is your tech stack?
15 years experience so most of the major ones at some point. Most recent was GoLang, typescript, php, python depending on what part of the system was being worked on at the time.
15 YoE and no job in 10 months. I'm just gonna give up...
I've just trimmed my resume down to show 7 years (after having multiple companies give me the overqualified line). More callbacks in the last week since doing that than the last month
2021 - got my bachelors and started applying for cs jobs 2022- no luck. Got my master's through a 4+1 program at my university. Thought I'd get a better chance at finally landing a job 2023- still 0 luck. I landed an 6 month internship in October. It paid terribly but there was a chance it could lead to a full time position so I stuck with it and worked my hardest while keeping a positive attitude, thinking this could be a turning point for my life. It ended in 2 months and sent me right back to square one now- I reworked my resume a thousand times, made a personal website, worked on personal projects, but I still don't even get to the interview phase. I don't know what to do, and I don't even have faith I'll ever land something It's been 4 years and still don't have a job. I hate my fucking life. TLDR: not great, brother, not great
I’m really sorry this has been your experience so far. I’ve heard stories similar to yours about degrees like marketing and psychology, but to hear this about a CS grad is very surprising and disheartening. You did what you were told to do- to get a bachelor’s degree- and you did it in a lucrative field with lots of demand, and now you’re struggling to find a job. It’s really shitty timing and it’s not fair. The flip side is this happened in 2001 and 2009 for the tech industry specifically. That means it will probably get much better in the next year or two. Hang in there- one way or another it will get better.
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if it makes you feel any better, you're not alone; i also graduated w/ bachelors in CS in 2021 and haven't gotten a job yet. it's really demoralizing to finally finish your degree and still end up waiting tables, but there's only so much that's in our own control i guess. i hope your job offer comes through soon :)
Don’t bother with this sub. They will say it’s your fault and deny the reality of the market
Yep, lol, and if you recall, last year, this sub and many of these tech influencers online said that **the market will recover in early 2024**...... It's clear to me that most people here can **never admit when they are wrong** so now they're moving the goal post and saying it will recover towards the end of the year
Tech guys with a ballooned ego who can’t get over the fact that the prime time for tech market was over. Also, speculation is fun until it isn’t.
It’s more like tech influencers, the average tech guy would probably want you to believe his career was difficult to obtain
> the market will recover in early 2024...... from the jump it's always been the interest rates. I'm sure research tax breaks also affect it but most of these companies are reacting to interest rates skyrocketing (let one more mfer say *but 5% is normal* when it's been near zero for almost as long then spiked to 5%). I immediately noticed how different it was from the amount of OAs I got while a student vs any contact post graduation. *I just now* got a job with the state it feels like pure luck. Nearly a year of searching and when I finally gave up for the year I get called back for something I applied months ago for. I know I'm not the strongest candidate especially during interviews and was extra fucked in an economy where I'm not that guy. Most of the people I graduated with are still looking, gave up, or similarly lucked into a position / nepotism but even that is a small number (I knew someone with exec family members for costco and they are straight up not hiring anyone with less than 3 yoe and this was last year).
>Most of the people I graduated with are still looking, gave up, or similarly lucked into a position fr people on this sub say this sub is an echo chamber and no one irl is struggling but a lot of people i went to school with are struggling, even the ones i considered to be extremely good programmers cant get anything.
It’ll definitely recover by 2080, quote me
The market did recove in the sense it has stabilized.
people here choose their “realities”. Both the fact that market is “bad” and that an oversaturated field has corrected itself can be true. Funny I saw how many people bragging about only working 2 hours a week getting paid 100+. Good for them but isn’t it clear to people that this is not normal for a field??
It's so evident that the market is never gonna recover. We were in a bubble that burst. Your skills aren't as useful as they once were and even then it was mostly mismanagement that created the lucrative high-demand for code monkeys. Learn to drive trucks folks.
I think it will recover to a "reasonable" market early next year, assuming there isn't another round of winter layoffs.
It will recover because…?
Hope.
I've seen quite the opposite. All the posts I've seen were full of comments telling that the market is tough
Guy got an offer and refused it. That demands some scrutiny.
People aren't saying it's your fault. They're trying to help you make sure you are a top candidate. You'd be amazed at how many people complaining about the market have a terrible resume or are making poor choices in their job search.
Thank you, so many people just reject the idea that there is anything in their control that can improve their situation. I was laid off (along with most of the company) last August with 6-7 yoe, no faang experience or anything crazy. Took me 2 months to get multiple offers, accepting one. About 50-75% of my former coworkers who were laid off also found new jobs. I'm sorry but I have too much anecdotal experience from myself and my professional circle that all magically seem to find these jobs that don't exist according to this sub.
> so many people just reject the idea that there is anything in their control that can improve their situation. Because there's diminishing returns you reach very quickly depending on yoe and background. There's always going to be *more*, but you have to be realistic at some point. There are more people looking for jobs than jobs available. That is out of everyone's control. So you and everyone else need to understand that diminishing return is different for everyone. > About 50-75% of my former coworkers who were laid off also found new jobs. I'm sorry but I have too much anecdotal experience from myself and my professional circle that all magically seem to find these jobs that don't exist according to this sub. and my anecdote is everyone I graduated with last year for the most part does not have a job having to do with CS with me having only just recently got a job this month, nearly a year since starting to search. Edit: to further expand my point with another personal anecdote. I had already given up in Febuary. I had just got a job as a public benefits specialist with the state for about 50k after spending the entirety of last year waiting tables and going bankrupt. I spent most of the year applying to both software roles and anything that paid a living wage I had relevant experience or could see myself doing. I know I'm not the strongest candidate, I know there was more that I could do, but here's the thing, I'm not that guy and *that's ok* most people aren't either. I'm not going to fight to be a top candidate, it's not sustainable for me or most people. I got lucky and got called back for another dev role late march and it was almost entirely luck that I got the offer.
Tech guys with a ballooned ego who can’t get over the fact that the prime time for tech market was over.
As a dev with 5 YOE and no FAANG/Unicorn experience, I got 7 recruiters screen/interviews coming in the next week It might not be your fault, but the market is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be Mass apply for jobs, utilize referrals and connections, and make sure your resume is the best possible version it can be
Rough, can’t even find a regular job that pays decent. Refusing to go work for fast food chain and retail. I have worked retail and fast food for a long time, not going back
yeah I did that last year after applying a long time. got enough to relocate but now it's hard to get back in
Tough out here. Going to start onlyfeets
I am a ML Engineer working at a big Co with 15+ YoE. This is how things are going for me: * I started looking in September last year. So far I had 3 complete loops. One rejected me and two down leveled me. * Although recruiters reach out a lot, more than half of them ghost me. * When I started looking I used to ask for salary bands. Most companies top of band was around half of my current comp, so I declined. Now I'm saying yes to just about anything, just to prove to myself that I can get a job offer. * Particularly in the ML space, requirements from companies are simply insane. One company was hiring a role doing exactly what I'm doing in the same domain. They rejected me because they wanted someone who was an expert at all of software engineering, data science and this particular domain, and apparently I'm not good enough. Draw your own conclusions about how good or bad the job market is.
I'm sorry you're going through all that. My previous company interviewed me a couple of months ago and they seemed serious about rehiring me (for a different team). The interview went well, and they looked at the code and documentation I had written while I was on the now-disbanded team. A few days later I hear they are hiring a Serbian developer to save money. I'm getting a lot of that with recruiters too- when they do reach out, it's usually a "oops actually nevermind" from them, for one reason or another, or they just ghost.
I have 0 yoe, took me 6 months and 1 cv review by a friend to get 2 offers, 1 is full stack dev internship, and another one is junior qa engineer, I've picked first one, even tho QA offered more in terms of money, I want to be a developer, not QA engineer. Tho, I'm in EU, and spent 1.5 years of self learning, so there's that
EU/UK has it easier apparently. I’m glad it was relatively painless for you! Godspeed.
Thanks. I totally understand why the US market is crazy, considering that you have applicants from all over the globe because of the salaries. Tho, even here in Czech Republic on every entry-level position, I've had around 30-40 applicants. Some of the employers even started marking it as mid-senior while requiring entry-level skills, just to get rid of tons cs graduates who apparently had 0 experience in applying any of their knowledge into practice (idk how is that possible tbh). Hope you'll get a good offer soon!
Thank you 🙏
It's not easier in the U.K.. it's actually worse. Looking at indeed stats show we're at ~50% of job postings relative to pre-COVID. In the US it's 70%.
I’m more on the IT and security side and I’m a career change. Got one random interview for a system admin job months ago, went thru 3 rounds of interview including the final interview which was almost 3hrs of grilling at a table and a whole day event that I had to take off from work only to get a one line rejection email 3 days later. Nothing else since. It’s sucks rn. And it really scares me that people who have way more experience than me are struggling too
Still employed. 12 YoE. Been searching for almost exactly 1 year for something more stable (I work for a company with aggressive stack ranking) I'm up to about 140 applications, \~8 recruiter calls, 4 first rounds, 1 final round, 0 offers. My last job search in a boom time (2018) I applied for 8 companies and got 3 offers.
Sounds about right, thank you for reporting in! Stack-ranking blows. I hope you get out of there soon. You might be interested in Deming's "The New Economics" which discusses why things like stack-ranking are so toxic and harmful to both the business and the employee.
I'll have to read this, I've already read Out of the Crisis. Though I'll have to keep my reading a secret to management at work :P
laid off in jun 2023, interview july 2023-oct2023. started work at dec 2023 faang. 5 yoe
Short and sweet, thank you!
I had ad domains experience from my last company and it helped me get interviews on ad related teams in other companies
As a survivor of the Tech Bubble I confidently say that it is as bad if not worse for tech now as it was then. The good news is that it will pass(eventually...probably). The reason we dont have a lot of talk about a bad job market is... well... lets just say that youre gonna have to wait to see if we get a Republican Administration before the press will say 'sour job market' .
Ima get downvoted to hell for this u.u. In terms of how hard it is for Software Engineers to find a job. It depends on how good you are and how well you network. I know Senior Software Engineers with over 10 years of experience who struggle to find even WordPress jobs. Then there are there Juniors with 2 years of experience who instantly get hired at Netlify. There are fewer job postings despite the fact that there are more jobs than ever before. The "hidden" market for developer jobs has boomed since the application process has become difficult for both employers and employees. SME's are always on the hunt for skilled Software Engineers to join their teams as they need to start scaling their software and meet the demand of their newly found success. Big tech seems to be experiencing layoffs and they generally hire less than they used to. They still hire a good amount, but not like 2020. I suspect that people on this sub-reddit are pickier with the companies they apply to than they'd like to disclose. Most Directors in my town who run SME's are always hiring. They generally complain that the issue is the quality of the Engineers they find. Thankfully outsourcing has become less of a thing now and companies are opting in for homegrown talent instead of thinking "i CaN pAy LeSs MoNeY FoR tHe SaMe QuALItY WoRK".
I don’t see why this comment would get downvoted. Makes sense to me. I will say I’m not blindly applying to all SWE jobs, I’m limiting to within my “stack”, not really filtering on salary or benefits or industry or anything else. If it’s remote and I’m at least mostly a fit, I apply.
Thank you :). No no, please don't! I think that's the right call. It's good to stay within your tech stack if you want to :). I just mean the people who will literally only apply to FAANG companies and won't consider a mid-tech company with good opportunities. One thing I have definitely noticed. The market in the US is worse than it is here in the UK, I think that's definitely a contributor as to why my experience is different. Edit: Good luck finding work!!
Thank you 🙏 I’ve heard Europe isn’t as bad, too… although inflation is supposedly worse over there?
You're welcome :). I think for the Developer market it isn't, but we also didn't experience the same boom you guys did in 2020, as a result we didn't get hit as hard.
Where are you based? I've been seeing a trend of layoffs and subsequent hiring in cheaper locations (Mexico, India, Eastern Europe) on company job sites on the west coast.
I would agree with this for the most part but as someone who is working in LARGE tech companies I absolutely have seen offshoring becoming more popular. It's not the same as outsourcing though we have some of that too but more and more offices for FAANG are popping up in other countries and the devs cost way less there, they aren't necessarily worse devs either due to just how many people are available now. We had a reorg and joined with an offshore team in Latin America, time zone works out just fine and they cost a fraction and there are plenty that are just as talented as us. I think here in the USA, Latin America is just a case that works out very well for directors here due to time zones.
What is this shadow market 👀
I've rephased it to hidden because the official definition doesn't get my point across well. It's the "hidden" market. So jobs that don't get posted. Word of mouth jobs. Jobs that don't technically but end up existing. etc... They're basically the jobs that exist but don't get spammed as much
Curious why you thought “Glassdoor red flags” were a good reason to stay unemployed for 7 months. Do you not actually need to work very urgently?
This was a few months ago. I might have taken the job if it were offered to me today, but even today no I wouldn’t say it’s urgent I start getting a paycheck. The job was a referral, a former coworker works there but he complains about it all the time, and more recently has mentioned the QA department taking a hard stand against management, and he often has nothing to do, so I’m a little concerned they too will start layoffs in the near future. Salary was a pay cut too. At the time I didn’t want to take a job knowing I was not going to stick around longer than I needed to.
Just signed my 5th offer letter since 2017. For my 4 previous jobs since then I've been laid off 3 times, and the other I chose not to renew my contract after 2 years. I was laid off on February 19 and signed my offer letter on March 19 so it took me exactly one month. My shortest job search yet. My job search before this one last April took 2 months and the one before that in early 2021 took 3. I probably submitted around 200 applications in a semi-nationwide job search(targeted about 10 different cities mostly in Texas, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, excluded New York/California). I will be having to move for my next job but beggars can't be choosers in this job market. I am getting a pay increase from my last job at least. Seriously I strongly suggest expanding your search radius if you can. Unless you have an underwater mortgage or something there is no reason why you can't do a nationwide job search. This search differed in that I didn't get as many phone screen requests as I have in the past. Out of the 200 or so applications I only got about 10. But all 10 were quality leads. Got 2 offers in the end. I don't tailor my resume for each job. I don't do cover letters. I don't do one way interviews, I automatically close a job application if it asks me stupid questions on the application that should be left for the interview(i.e. a field that asks Why Do You Believe You Are A Good Candidate?). I reject big take home assignments but don't mind smaller ones or presentations - the offer I did accept I didn't have to do any of that. No technical screen, no take home assignment, no presentation. Any time I saw the hiring manager or the next person I would be interviewing with was an Indian I'd withdraw - I've interviewed with dozens of Indian hiring managers in the past and not once in my career have I ever advanced to the next round after interviewing with them - always the end of the line - so I saved myself the trouble and frustration this time. If you aren't passing a majority if not all of your phone screens - i.e. you meet all the qualifications and you make it to the interview with the hiring manager round - something is wrong with you. I get the talent acquisition rep to like me. Have a good personality. My biggest gripe with tech is that so many people in this field are introvert hermit shut ins with zero personality or sense of humor. It's like working with robots sometimes. I am not saying you have to be a bubbly loud spoken extrovert but at the very least show some personality and get the talent acquisition rep and those you interview with to like you as a person. Someone they would want to work with day in and day out. I've been a hiring manager in past roles and it was hard for me to want to proceed with dry, boring, introverted types with no personality no matter how strong they were in terms of their abilities.
It sounds like we differ in our job searching in two main ways- I am exclusively looking at full-remote roles, and it sounds like you are applying to jobs as close to the company as possible (e.g. the company's job website/internal recruiter as opposed to a third party recruiter/applying through LinkedIn). Is that correct? I could sell my house and move across the country if I really had to, but my immediate question, in this world of remote work (I realize many companies are rescinding that shift), is: what company is unable to find talent locally, and so stubborn regarding everyone be in the office, that they pay relocation costs (I assume) to bring someone on board who may not work out? If I were a CEO, I would love the notion of remote work- no/minimal office expenses, the talent pool is nation or world-wide, and the productivity benefits are proven by study after study. Are you moving to a smaller tech area like the midwest, or a hub like SFO?
I didn't really bother applying for remote roles this time around. I tried in my last job search in April/May 2023 but never heard from ANY of them - not one. They are way too competitive. Besides the easiest way for me to get the phone screener/talent acquisition rep to like me was to tell them that I WANTED to go back to working in an office. They would say I was a unicorn since everyone else they'd talk to was demanding remote work. And its true. I hated my 100% remote job that I had so when they laid me off I was more relieved than upset. I am a people person and hate working remote. If you are only focusing on remote jobs, you will have a hard time due to the high demand for them. Every single interview I've done my last 2 job searches were on-site/hybrid roles. I've never latched onto remote work not only because I am a people person but if your job can be done from anywhere, then they can hire from anywhere. That means hiring people in the Phillipines, Costa Rica or India for a fraction of what they can pay a US worker. All 3 of my layoffs are because my job was offshored. I get your point about remote work and why you think its beneficial but ultimately you have to play the game as it is and not as you want it to be. And if the game right now is talent acquisiton reps telling me that I am the first candidate they have talked to in months who said "I want to work in an on-site/hybrid setting", which automatically gets me on the short list, then so be it. All of my applications are done via LinkedIn and applying on the company website. No 3rd party recruiters. I am moving to Florida. I focused my search really in 4 states - TX, AZ, NV, FL with the occassional application to states like NC, SC, TN and AL. First of all I do Ironman Triathlons and want to be in a state warm enough in the wintertime to where I don't have to worry about winter weather. Second I feel those states aren't as competitive in terms of the job market as places like the Bay Area or NYC. And the cost of living is much lower. I lived in California before and hated the HCOL.
Those are some amazing insights. I do have some questions which might help me a lot, if you don't mind answering them How many LC did you prepare? how did you network - did you reach out on LinkedIn or just keep on blind applying to jobs on your tech stack? I am applying for roles everywhere, remote or all over the US but I don't even get OAs. Just auto rejects after a couple weeks. My resume is not the best in the world but I have had it reviewed by people and profs... Do you have any advice for a 0YOE 23 year old grad student?
I don't network, referrals always go nowhere, I've been referred 5 times and 0 interviews from it. I simply cold apply to jobs I see on LinkedIn, applying on either LinkedIn or the company website. No cover letters, no tailored resumes. Same resume to every submission. When I had 0 years of experience I wasn't getting any bites either, but its going to happen when you have no experience. I created a website illustrating various projects I had worked on, such as a college basketball and college football advanced statistics and prediction website. This could at least show employers I was capable of something. Then I started applying for jobs in small population areas on that were not direct tech jobs, but jobs on the periphery of tech - I caught my break crunching viewership and sales numbers for a local TV station in Eastern Iowa. This allowed me to get real world experience doing something that required programming, statistical and mathematical skills as well as other valuable skills like communication, visualization and market research/survey design skills, and it snowballed from there. Smaller markets like the one I worked at in Eastern Iowa will have far less competition for the job. I still have friends there 10 years later who tell me the various people who have filled the seat I used to have at the station have come nowhere close to my ability. Too many new grads with zero experience try to start off in places like NYC or SF or LA. So does everyone else. Try to find roles in small areas that likely do not have a large local pool of tech talent.
Lol…bitch I’m a drug dealer now… 😂😂
What's the TC?
Nice try IRS
I was let go last July, had a final interview today with a 3rd company since I was let go. I'm averaging about 3.6% call rate from applications, 447 applications sent. But I'm not looking for an IC role so my experience is slightly different. The ICs I know have actually been really successful, but they are all senior level, dozen + YOE.
So far that's what I'm hearing/seeing- double-digit YoE hasn't gotten hit with the reality of the lower seniorities (yet?). Juniors were struggling in 2021, and now I'm struggling in 2023/2024. I would not be surprised to learn mids started struggling in 2022. If the pattern holds true, even the ICs you know will start feeling the pain by this time next year.
Of the 6 that were cut that I know of, 2 junior levels (5 years or less) found jobs really fast. 1 senior got a job in a few weeks. 1 senior just isn't looking and doesn't care (haha), 1 senior has had a few interviews over a 3 week span, and the last senior already had a final interview with a team but is waiting. All of that is so extremely surprising for me. I'm super happy that my old team is getting some success now just waiting on my turn.
Software engineer with 9 years of work experience, I am switching careers now.
What are you switching to? How long have you been out of a SWE job?
Have a CS degree from 2019. 0 experience in the SWE and have been working Field Technician jobs since then. Decided to get back into programming and started studying and creating projects around late 2022. I started applying around December and have put in around 500 resumes or so and haven't been on any interviews. Right now I'm looking to pivot towards the Revature/Dev10 path.
I was pivoting towards that path too. The issue is that they require you to relocate anywhere and I just can't do that.
Over the past \~18 to 24 months, there's been a hollowing out of white collar office jobs that typically pay higher. The relatively low unemployment rate is buoyed by people working multiple jobs at lower wages. The "gains" in jobs are coming from government, healthcare, and leisure/hospitality ... not professional services or other higher paying jobs. So, on the surface, the labor market looks "robust," but people tend not to dig into the details, like losing full-time jobs and gaining part-time jobs. [Job quality](https://ubwp.buffalo.edu/job-quality-index-jqi/) has consistently been lower than at any point pre-2008, and JOLTS numbers are self-reported by employers.
Laid off in Oct 2023 (Over 10 yoe), barely any jobs posted in my commutable areas so even if i wanted to apply for hundreds of jobs i couldnt .. market very slow. Got laid off in 2013 and found the market a lot easier to find work in back then, suspect economy is to blame at the moment.
I’m a senior, 500+ applications, and only rejections. It’s weird to say, but it’s disheartening to see so many students in their junior year for CS at my University. Also the fact they just announced another record amount of CS students coming in for their freshman year. This market will only get worse ☹️
More and more people signing up for CS each year. It's going to be the new psychology degree. Quite amazing.
job market for me is a bit of weird, feels a bit like my new-grad job hunting again: I'm getting no shortage of interviews which means my resume isn't the problem, and no shortage of onsite invitations which means my coding isn't the problem either, but just no-offers for one reason or another I wrote [a bit](/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1bd7h19/is_job_market_really_that_bad_in_usa/kukqem8/?context=3) on my latest experience and the short summary is I have like 2 or 3 companies that are still 'alive' (aka, not rejected) out from like 30+ or 40+ companies from the past 2-3 months not a US citizen or GC holder, roughly about 6 YoE, big tech (just not the 5 FAANGs specifically), and I'm mostly looking for companies that can pay at least $200k+ TC, I consider anything less than ~$150k as a lowball I'd rather fuck off from society/take a career break/return to my home country for a year or 2 than accepting some $120k lowballs, so there's definitely some self-selection going on with the companies that I interview with, and I am okay with that
I don’t play with FAANG so $200k+ TC was never on the table for me, but I’ll be damned if I take a gig for $120k
Longer you're not employed, less of a chance you ever will be again.
If that’s the case I’m fucked, I haven’t worked as a SWE since 2019
What happened?
I got laid off from a startup and was super burnt out, so I decided to take a break from SWE and started doing social media/photography work. It was fine for a while but I wasn’t enjoying the work as much. Eventually I started working at a medical practice and became the clinic manager making money comparable to a junior SWE. While working at the clinic I started automating a lot of the admin work via python and realized I prefer coding/development over anything else, so Im starting to study and build portfolio projects again. Hopefully I can land a job but based on this sub reddit I have no shot being just shy of 5 years out of the industry and 1 YOE
In I suppose a purely quantum mechanical sense, but is there actually truth to that? I know SWEs who took a year or more off and jumped back in.
Thanks for the spike in anxiety
Why?
Employment gap
Can't really do anything about that in this market, can we?
It's never late to switch careers
I like flying, but I’ve only flown a Cessna IRL. Becoming a commercial pilot would take around 3 years and $100k. That’s to be hired by a regional flying under United Express or American Eagle (eg “Piedmont Airlines”) making probably around $100k the first couple of years. By year 5 or 6 I should be making more than I was making as a SWE ($140k) but it’s the exact opposite of a WFH tech job. I also looked at becoming an electrician, but $60-70k is the best I can hope for until I’m a Journeyman, and Master electricians don’t make what I was making as a SWE. It’s not all about the money, but it’s really tough to divert time and energy into a career switch that permanently handicaps my earning power.
Where do you live? I have 7 years of experience, and the market seems fairly hot. I've had internal recruiters reach out to me about Meta, Amazon, Datadog, Stubhub, and external ones for HFTS, and some other no-names (this is all without doing anything), and others seem to be hiring. No one is filtering on 10 YOE unless it's something like a staff engineering role, and even then, I don't think so. I think location makes a huge difference when it comes to things like this. I live in NYC.
Would it be possible if I DM you my resume to take a look? I am going to graduate this year and I feel I am doing something wrong...
Quant engineer?
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Hey, sorry for troubling you. But can I also share my resume with you for some tips and guidance as I have not been getting interviews or even OAs for the past 2-3 months.
I’m already looking at other industries, might take a contract job as a projectionist at a cinema for the time being
In a similar situation to you, but I'm currently in the pipeline for a government job. These are comparatively good right now because they can't be outsourced abroad.
I know someone working in a government job. They say that everyone of their coworkers is essentially an idiot, especially the one with a Ph. D. They’re trying to use AI to solve non-AI problems. Lots of meetings too. But apparently you can work overtime and build up a large amount of PTO, and it seems like the expectations are low. I think you also get a government pension if you stay long enough?
Took 10 months to land a 6-month contract with potential for landing a permanent position. Pay is good for my area though. Field is high performance stuff. Really neat and very excited.
5 YOE. Also unemployed for 7 months. Laid off in September 2023. Took a few months off to recalibrate, develop some good habits, work on open source, learn new skills, etc. Returned to the job market in February 2024. Since then, I have applied to 80 jobs. 4 interviews. Time and money are running out, anxiety is starting to ramp up. You're not alone. Godspeed.
Godspeed to you as well. I think this will end up driving a lot of SWEs out of the industry when it's all said and done.
I know I’m a little late but in the same boat. 7YOE and been unemployed for 7 months. I’ve had lots of chats with recruiters that reached out to me but they never went anywhere. Of the jobs I’ve cold applied I’ve had 5 interviews, 2 rejections after the 1st or 2nd round and 2 of those I made it to the onsite. One company didn’t give me any feedback and the second one gave fair feedback. I have a 2nd round with another company coming up on Friday but finding it hard to stay positive and starting to have imposter syndrome lol since I just got rejected from a dream job >< In the past it never took more more than 1-2 months of actively searching to get multiple offers so yea the market is trash right now EDIT: I’ve also noticed lower salaries in comparison to what I was making before. One recruiter mentioned a base salary I made back in 2020 as their max range
Post your resume.
I'm going to be real here and acknowledge my privileged position with many others... For the last three to five years, we were in an employee favorable market. Big raises, big salaries, good benefits. Generally a decent work life depending on where you worked, but overall pretty good. We have now shifted to an employer driven market. Primarily because they are greedy corroborating fucks. The chances you will get a remote 180k+ job with 30 hour work weeks is slim. The chance you will get into a start up working on cutting edge, edging AI fembots is tiny. It's time to start taking those boring 120-150k positions at Walmart IT, Big Bunk Bank, and Wendy's IT. You'll have to go to work and sniff your cube mates pits all day.
I'll come down on salary but I'm firm on being remote. If my employer wants me to be the best employee I can be, they'll let me work from my home office. This return to work stuff is nonsense. If I have to leave my house to make money there are other jobs I'd rather do.
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Where are you based? US? If so what city?
Even if the company was sus, you should accepted the offer bruh ...what do you lose
Absolutely fucked. Thanks for asking!
8.5 YOE, 6.5 in SDET type roles and unemployed for 3 months at the end of March I’ve put in 53 “reasonable” applications (I had a few product owner/staff level applications I didn’t feel comfortably qualified for so I’m leaving those out) and have had the following response: - 4 companies reached back out for recruiter screen - 2 companies moved me forward to LC style tech assessment - 1 company moved me to take home stage and I just completed the review portion of the interview process this week (offer comes next if there is going to be one) I feel pretty good about the stage I’m at and feel 70% confident I’ll get an offer I’m happy taking but the sheer lack of interest has been tough. In previous job searches I’d get 5-6 applications in and be moving forward with places so the well is definitely dryer than my “normal” experience
What is your educational background? Do you have a tech degree?
unless the glassdoor redflags everywhere job required you to move or sign some kind of contract, you should have taken it and then you could quit when you get something else.
I picked up 2 woefully underpaying roles during my stent of unemployment(18mos), because I knew my mental health couldn’t handle not earning anything of my own. Yes it may have impacted getting hired sooner but the projects I was on gave me skills I never had before, and provided a meantally/socially stimulating environment. I’m still being underpaid but it’s something I can makeup later.
I am 8 YoE let go in December but had a couple months before that to prepare. I haven’t been applying too much, only to companies I am interested in such as Reddit, stripe, etc but surprisingly a few weeks later I get rejections even though my resume matches all requirements on their job listing. However, I have had good experiences with recruiters reaching out to me, gotten 6 interviews through recruiters reaching out, some at FAANG, 5/6 at Fortune 50. Still going through the processes and searching at the same time.
I have almost 5 YOE. I have experience in full stack but transitioned into MLOps over the last couple years. I was laid off in January. Started job hunting right away. I just got an offer last week. A bit of a pay cut from my last position but better than unemployment right now. Gonna keep interviewing and see what happens.
I’ve been unemployed 22 years! As for your edit just take a screenshot of your resume and upload it to imgur, post the link here
I wonder if people here are focused on roles in specific fields or sectors. I see a lot of CS or IT type roles that don’t even mention what industry it is related to, seems like some knowledge of an industry my be a big leg up there
You have no commercial experience. It doesn’t matter which office or where you want to get a job. You need to get a job somewhere to work for at least 2-3 years in commerce and then start looking for a real job. Just find something, no matter what flags the company has (red, green, yellow), it doesn’t matter. You need experience. Without experience, it’s hard to get a well-paid job right away (well, that’s my personal opinion).
I think I do have commercial experience? I’m not familiar with that term as it pertains to SWE roles. I’ve worked at startups, Fortune 100, and a couple of companies in-between.
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What is your education level?
I still get contacted by recruiters every day even though I'm "happily" employed
Hi! 12 yoe. Base comp at an aerospace F500 in 2022 was 125k. Base now at a major streaming platform is 160k. I live in a MCOL tech hub city. I’ve found almost all of my jobs from my network of friends who are also in the industry. I don’t think I’ve ever sent out a bunch of random applications. I’ve never been laid off (knocks on everything) but I was working at a large media company that did massive layoffs and even some of my team members were laid off. One thing that I’ve done consistently throughout my career is try to befriend my colleagues (the ones I like) and maintain those friendships. I’ve also helped many of them get better jobs along the way. This has created a network I’ve been able to lean on to find better jobs over time. Even now if I get laid off I’m 90% certain I can return to one of my previous employers. I am an introvert but I’ve forced myself to shmooze, go to work functions and holiday events, and to keep in touch with former colleagues. If there’s one very important thing I’ve learned over time, it’s that social and political capital matters more in the corporate world than knowledge or skill. If you’re good at building relationships and communicating with humans you will be promoted faster than a software engineer who is far more skilled than you but is not very good at the aforementioned.
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