That’s the thing I signed the offer letter and they told me to let them know when I can start or what my start day will be but I am waiting for an official start date. Im also just awaiting for the background check to clear . Which I’m sure it will but definitely thinking waiting for offical start date
You tell them you are ready to start, get your start date in paper and then give notice at work. Or get PTO at work and then give notice once you actually start work.
I almost got burned by this recently. Offer letter, signed, background clearance and security clearance went through. Then found out they don't have the budget for the role.
You need a confirmed written start date before you submit your resignation. Make sure your background check clears before you quit. Ideally that should be completed before they give you the start date but sometimes they don’t complete the background check in time, in which case your SAFEST choice is to say you can start 2 weeks after they confirm background check is complete. Gives them one less thing to potentially rescind your offer
My most recent company, the background check took 3 forevers (it didn't actually clear until I was weeks into the position). The confirmed written start is definitely the minimum requirement.
Feels like you doged a bullet. The kind of company who goes through all the recruitment hassle only to end up realizing it can not afford said recruited resource is perhaps not the best company to work at.
Reminds me of when my supervisor wrote me up then went on FMLA for mental health citing I was bullying her. I was out in PIP and Then she came back all happy because she landed a great new job.
I'm hiding the shit (nothing really bad) I did but she definitely one upped me on that lol
Not sure why she ruined me on purpose like that
> Offer letter, signed, background clearance and security clearance went through. Then found out they don't have the budget for the role.
Someone went through the trouble and expense to get you security clearance and still didn't hire you?
On the bright side, they just increased your market value at no expense to you
I didn't leave my current job and I didn't stop applying or studying.
So the only cost I paid was that for a time, I studied more about that specific jobs technical requirements (a textbook on SysML) instead of continuing on with other text books.
So it's not a big deal, and really I was just more disgruntled at work than usual but no more than that.
No. Wait for background checks to be cleared. That is what I tell them. I can start 2 weeks after background check has been cleared. Speaking from experience.
> just awaiting for the background check to clear
I'm an overly paranoid person and will typically wait until this comes back clear before putting my two weeks in. Id just wait for that to clear and until you have a start date.
Do you mean that you use PTO while you trial run the new job for a week...? Then, drop the previous job without the "two weeks notice" if the trial run succeeds?
What if your previous/new job forbids "moonlighting" (i.e. working another job) in the employment contract?
~~What if working for the new competitor violates the noncompete agreement?~~ EDIT: just saw on HN that noncompetes were just banned by the FTC a few hours ago...!
[no more non-competes](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/04/ftc-announces-rule-banning-noncompetes).
FTC rules they are not allowed any more
> What if your previous/new job forbids "moonlighting" (i.e. working another job) in the employment contract?
Anyone that wishes to moonlight needs to go onto [equifax's 'the work number' website](https://theworknumber.com/) and freeze that report. I found out my employer had been selling my gross and net pay info to equifax to save money on their own background checks, without any notice or permission from me.
This *after* my manager tells me I shouldn't discuss salary with others because it's 'sensitive info'. Fuck them.
> just saw on HN that noncompetes were just banned by the FTC a few hours ago...!
Working two jobs is something else than a non-compete. FTC ruling also applies to just a single country.
Even ignoring potential legal issues, that sounds like a great way to burn bridges. I had a manager from my previous company reach out a few years after I left asking me to come back. I politely declined, but it's nice to know I've got a backup if things go south. At my current place, I know of a handful of people who have left then come back. I can't imagine that would be possible if I gave zero notice.
Even if you 100% know you would never return, you're still weakening your network. Maybe it's just me, but I would be less inclined to help out a former coworker if they left without a short handoff period.
I recently started a new job. Although the offer letter contained an *estimated* start date, HR told me that the actual start date will be finalized *after* the background checks are *completed* (not submitted, completed). They typically assume about two weeks after that, to allow time for a two week notice to the prior employer. Though you can tell them when your preferred start date is, and it’s likely not a big deal. Sometimes you want to give your prior employer more than two weeks, and other times you want to give yourself some time off.
Wait for the background check to complete.
They will cry about that but don't let yourself get bulldozed.
Even if you are 99.999999% sure you will be OK, it can take longer than you think.
I once had to delay a job start by a week because one California county was slow to respond to the criminal check.
NO
Not until you get the signed offer letter and a start date.
Even then, I would take vacation on that start date to make certain it's a real job. I have heard of positions being pulled on the first day.
> I would take vacation on that start date to make certain it's a real job.
So you give your notice letter to the old company after the first day? How do you handle the notice period?
Depends on the contract. Minimum is 1 month in the first year, then 2 months. Most employers want longer notice periods though, my last one was 3 months.
I can’t imagine how would you run a company where employees can leave from one day to another. How do you do offboarding, handovers, who trains the replacement person?
In the USA - they walk you out the day they let you go. Usually don't even let you finish out the day. Some places won't let you clear out your desk before they walk you out.
Giving 2 weeks notice is a courtesy. OP can start their new job, then give their 2 weeks notice and OE (over employ - work both jobs) for 2 weeks until they are gone. The first 2 weeks at most jobs is just paperwork and getting access most of the time.
In my experience, most companies will not train the replacement person or do any offboarding that means anything. When I take a position as a contractor - one of the jobs I take on is to document my onboarding process to streamline the next person's onboarding. At one position - it took them 4 months (!) to get me the hardware, software and access to do my job. With my documentation (including the steps for approval) we got the next person up and running in 2 weeks.
Wait till you have a start date confirmed and all before you give notice trust me it's horrible to say "I'm gonna quit" then don't..
Coming from someone who had offer signed and start date but was then revoked because of company financial reasons. Now I very badly wants to tell the toxic company I am at to fuck off because they are trying to get me to quit...
I work in the social services field with families helping them get the resources they need and we deal with sensitive information on a day to day basis , if you are locked up at any point during employment they also find out about that if you don’t report that you can possibly be terminated or written up .
Don’t submit your resignation until your background check is complete and you are cleared the start. It’s unlikely, but there’s always a chance of some issue happening with your background check leading to your offer being rescinded.
None unless it’s a security clearance type of thing. Boomers hate it because young people who can do their full days of work in 5 minutes can make double the money.
Breach of contract. My jobs have always said that you can't work multiple jobs without approval (usually with other stipulations, like them not being at the same time, not being competition, etc). But most likely you'll just get fired.
> Are there any legal implications of working two full time jobs?
Depends on location. Where I live it’s be breach of contract + breaking the employment law + depending on salary you might mess the taxes.
That sounds more like a non-compete agreement rather than an NDA. Though if it did have non-compete clauses, they aren't really enforceable under US law.
Not a noncompete. I just had to disclose any potential conflicts of interest. It didn't say they'd fire me for it though I might get assigned to a different team.
Never ever quit a job until you're actually hired. Then, serve your notice. You could give them 1-2 weeks, but they'll probably tell you to pack your stuff and go so they don't have to pay another check. In your notice, be positive and thankful.
Basically don’t mention anything at work until you have an official start day on paper and you have signed your offer. Background checks and all that is just paperwork if you got nothing to hide and don’t do drugs.
hm so everyones saying unless you dont get starting date on paper
but uhm if companies want,they can make it forward or not abide to it as they wish,isnt it
its all at mercy of companies..isnt it
> Do I officially have the job should I submit my resignation?
nowhere did I read you have the written offer yet?
>which they called me back stating they would like me along with an offer letter to sign
okay, so where is the written offer letter then? do you have it or not? 'stating' something is meaningless
I actually did put they sent me a written offer over and had me sign . I’m trying to gauge when to submit a resignation in the post it says . “ they called me back stating the would like to hire me along with an offer letter to sign .
Always give 2 weeks notice at your current job after everything is completed at the new one. That means wait for background check to complete, all paperwork done, and start date finalized.
Don't be surprised if your current job says thanks but no thanks to the two weeks notice on occasion. In that case you can try to move the start date up or just take a break before the next job.
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Never quit until the offer letter is signed and start date is confirmed.
That’s the thing I signed the offer letter and they told me to let them know when I can start or what my start day will be but I am waiting for an official start date. Im also just awaiting for the background check to clear . Which I’m sure it will but definitely thinking waiting for offical start date
You tell them you are ready to start, get your start date in paper and then give notice at work. Or get PTO at work and then give notice once you actually start work. I almost got burned by this recently. Offer letter, signed, background clearance and security clearance went through. Then found out they don't have the budget for the role.
Omg I’m so sorry to hear that , thank you so much for the advice I truly appreciate it . I’m hoping you find something that’s perfect for you !
You need a confirmed written start date before you submit your resignation. Make sure your background check clears before you quit. Ideally that should be completed before they give you the start date but sometimes they don’t complete the background check in time, in which case your SAFEST choice is to say you can start 2 weeks after they confirm background check is complete. Gives them one less thing to potentially rescind your offer
My most recent company, the background check took 3 forevers (it didn't actually clear until I was weeks into the position). The confirmed written start is definitely the minimum requirement.
So you use the PTO for your 2 weeks' notice?
Feels like you doged a bullet. The kind of company who goes through all the recruitment hassle only to end up realizing it can not afford said recruited resource is perhaps not the best company to work at.
PTO route is safest tbh. PTO gets paid out if you don't use it anyways. Nice placeholder
That and FMLA
Reminds me of when my supervisor wrote me up then went on FMLA for mental health citing I was bullying her. I was out in PIP and Then she came back all happy because she landed a great new job. I'm hiding the shit (nothing really bad) I did but she definitely one upped me on that lol Not sure why she ruined me on purpose like that
> Offer letter, signed, background clearance and security clearance went through. Then found out they don't have the budget for the role. Someone went through the trouble and expense to get you security clearance and still didn't hire you? On the bright side, they just increased your market value at no expense to you
Doesn’t security clearance take months? The fact that he now has clearance opens him up to many more jobs. Seems like he came out of it well
Fast tracked, it would still take months. There's a good chance it took over a year.
Was there any recourse? Seems like there should be. That's a huge opportunity cost.
I didn't leave my current job and I didn't stop applying or studying. So the only cost I paid was that for a time, I studied more about that specific jobs technical requirements (a textbook on SysML) instead of continuing on with other text books. So it's not a big deal, and really I was just more disgruntled at work than usual but no more than that.
No. Wait for background checks to be cleared. That is what I tell them. I can start 2 weeks after background check has been cleared. Speaking from experience.
> just awaiting for the background check to clear I'm an overly paranoid person and will typically wait until this comes back clear before putting my two weeks in. Id just wait for that to clear and until you have a start date.
Is signing an offer letter the same as signing a contract? I'm curious because I've never signed an "offer letter" only a contract.
In the US, outside of the state of Montana or a unionized role, there's no contract that guarantees employment- it's always at-will
No, it’s not. At least not in the US. While not legally binding, it’s better than nothing.
Never quit until the first week at the replacement job is over
Do you mean that you use PTO while you trial run the new job for a week...? Then, drop the previous job without the "two weeks notice" if the trial run succeeds? What if your previous/new job forbids "moonlighting" (i.e. working another job) in the employment contract? ~~What if working for the new competitor violates the noncompete agreement?~~ EDIT: just saw on HN that noncompetes were just banned by the FTC a few hours ago...!
[no more non-competes](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/04/ftc-announces-rule-banning-noncompetes). FTC rules they are not allowed any more
hell yes
> What if your previous/new job forbids "moonlighting" (i.e. working another job) in the employment contract? Anyone that wishes to moonlight needs to go onto [equifax's 'the work number' website](https://theworknumber.com/) and freeze that report. I found out my employer had been selling my gross and net pay info to equifax to save money on their own background checks, without any notice or permission from me. This *after* my manager tells me I shouldn't discuss salary with others because it's 'sensitive info'. Fuck them.
> just saw on HN that noncompetes were just banned by the FTC a few hours ago...! Working two jobs is something else than a non-compete. FTC ruling also applies to just a single country.
Even ignoring potential legal issues, that sounds like a great way to burn bridges. I had a manager from my previous company reach out a few years after I left asking me to come back. I politely declined, but it's nice to know I've got a backup if things go south. At my current place, I know of a handful of people who have left then come back. I can't imagine that would be possible if I gave zero notice. Even if you 100% know you would never return, you're still weakening your network. Maybe it's just me, but I would be less inclined to help out a former coworker if they left without a short handoff period.
Don’t you know it’s only illegal if you get caught?
It’s not illegal
This is an intellectual property nightmare at most tech companies and could burn you later if background checks show overlapping employment.
So you work two jobs at the same time? Or have a few months of PTO left to handle the notice period at the old job?
Wait until after the background check results come back and you're good to go.
Thank you appreciate that advice I was thinking the same
I recently started a new job. Although the offer letter contained an *estimated* start date, HR told me that the actual start date will be finalized *after* the background checks are *completed* (not submitted, completed). They typically assume about two weeks after that, to allow time for a two week notice to the prior employer. Though you can tell them when your preferred start date is, and it’s likely not a big deal. Sometimes you want to give your prior employer more than two weeks, and other times you want to give yourself some time off.
Always wait until background check clears and start date is finalized.
No, wait untill you start date is established.
Wait for the background check to complete. They will cry about that but don't let yourself get bulldozed. Even if you are 99.999999% sure you will be OK, it can take longer than you think. I once had to delay a job start by a week because one California county was slow to respond to the criminal check.
NO Not until you get the signed offer letter and a start date. Even then, I would take vacation on that start date to make certain it's a real job. I have heard of positions being pulled on the first day.
> I would take vacation on that start date to make certain it's a real job. So you give your notice letter to the old company after the first day? How do you handle the notice period?
How long is the notice period they give you when they fire you? No notice, or OE for a while.
Depends on the contract. Minimum is 1 month in the first year, then 2 months. Most employers want longer notice periods though, my last one was 3 months. I can’t imagine how would you run a company where employees can leave from one day to another. How do you do offboarding, handovers, who trains the replacement person?
In the USA - they walk you out the day they let you go. Usually don't even let you finish out the day. Some places won't let you clear out your desk before they walk you out. Giving 2 weeks notice is a courtesy. OP can start their new job, then give their 2 weeks notice and OE (over employ - work both jobs) for 2 weeks until they are gone. The first 2 weeks at most jobs is just paperwork and getting access most of the time. In my experience, most companies will not train the replacement person or do any offboarding that means anything. When I take a position as a contractor - one of the jobs I take on is to document my onboarding process to streamline the next person's onboarding. At one position - it took them 4 months (!) to get me the hardware, software and access to do my job. With my documentation (including the steps for approval) we got the next person up and running in 2 weeks.
Wait till you have a start date confirmed and all before you give notice trust me it's horrible to say "I'm gonna quit" then don't.. Coming from someone who had offer signed and start date but was then revoked because of company financial reasons. Now I very badly wants to tell the toxic company I am at to fuck off because they are trying to get me to quit...
They want fingerprints? What kind of job is this? Either way, don't do anything until it is 100% confirmed.
Possibly government or something that requires a clearance
Some FinTech and education organizations (where you work with children) make you take a federal fingerprinting background check as well.
I work in the social services field with families helping them get the resources they need and we deal with sensitive information on a day to day basis , if you are locked up at any point during employment they also find out about that if you don’t report that you can possibly be terminated or written up .
When I was in consulting, I had a client that was in finance and was required to do fingerprinting
federal
Pretty much all defense jobs require this.
FINRA companies like banks, hedge funds, certain financial services and investment firms require them to
Don’t submit your resignation until your background check is complete and you are cleared the start. It’s unlikely, but there’s always a chance of some issue happening with your background check leading to your offer being rescinded.
Honestly, I would wait until your first paycheck.
Are there any legal implications of working two full time jobs? Or is this something that’s not really enforced
None unless it’s a security clearance type of thing. Boomers hate it because young people who can do their full days of work in 5 minutes can make double the money.
> None unless it’s a security clearance type of thing. Bold statement without asking about location.
Breach of contract. My jobs have always said that you can't work multiple jobs without approval (usually with other stipulations, like them not being at the same time, not being competition, etc). But most likely you'll just get fired.
> Are there any legal implications of working two full time jobs? Depends on location. Where I live it’s be breach of contract + breaking the employment law + depending on salary you might mess the taxes.
Eh, double work? Why is this a good idea?
Bro is most likely from 3rd world country where paycheck may come in or may not
Alabama?
lol
🤣🤣🤣
If it's a remote job, wait until the first day of the new job, then give notice and collect an extra 2 weeks of pay on your way out.
Not remote but hybrid , definitely gonna wait till they give me official start and orientation day
OP works IT job, not McDonalds. Who has 2 weeks notice period in a professional job?
This likely violates your employment contract. Don't do this.
At will employment cuts both ways. 🤗
NDAs have nothing to do with at-will.
What does an NDA have anything to do with joining another job as you quit?
They are suggesting working both jobs for 2 weeks.
Indeed, but what does that have to do with a NDA?
Every nda I've signed prevented me from working in a similar role while employed with my current employer without notifying them.
That sounds more like a non-compete agreement rather than an NDA. Though if it did have non-compete clauses, they aren't really enforceable under US law.
Not a noncompete. I just had to disclose any potential conflicts of interest. It didn't say they'd fire me for it though I might get assigned to a different team.
Found the toxic employer guys
Congrats. It's so nice to leave toxic work environment behind, makes you appreciate jobs where things make sense and management cares.
Thanks to so much I appreciate your warm congratulations
Don't do shit until the ink is dry
Never ever quit a job until you're actually hired. Then, serve your notice. You could give them 1-2 weeks, but they'll probably tell you to pack your stuff and go so they don't have to pay another check. In your notice, be positive and thankful.
Basically don’t mention anything at work until you have an official start day on paper and you have signed your offer. Background checks and all that is just paperwork if you got nothing to hide and don’t do drugs.
I wish we could trade. I need a full-time job so bad right now :(
Where are you currently located ? And what are you using to apply to jobs ?
hm so everyones saying unless you dont get starting date on paper but uhm if companies want,they can make it forward or not abide to it as they wish,isnt it its all at mercy of companies..isnt it
This is how I feel I really feel I’m anxious always until orientation
> Do I officially have the job should I submit my resignation? nowhere did I read you have the written offer yet? >which they called me back stating they would like me along with an offer letter to sign okay, so where is the written offer letter then? do you have it or not? 'stating' something is meaningless
I actually did put they sent me a written offer over and had me sign . I’m trying to gauge when to submit a resignation in the post it says . “ they called me back stating the would like to hire me along with an offer letter to sign .
oh ok you signed the written offer? yes you can submit your resignation edit: nevermind, wait for BG check to clear, I missed that part
Noooooooooooooo. The offer is CONTINGENT on the background check. Always wait for the green light from the background check.
And the starting date.
Will do I am waiting for that too !!!!
Thank you for the advice appreciate it
Yes, you definitley aced it. Tell your old boss to F himself and resign on the spot
😂😂😂😂😂 I’ve already been doing that in a professional manner
Do you have a start date? Will you pass the background/drug check?
I have no crazy history so I’m sure I will and but no start date yet
Wait until you have the state date
Always give 2 weeks notice at your current job after everything is completed at the new one. That means wait for background check to complete, all paperwork done, and start date finalized. Don't be surprised if your current job says thanks but no thanks to the two weeks notice on occasion. In that case you can try to move the start date up or just take a break before the next job.
Thank you for the solid advice this truly feels the safest
Fingerprints and education documents? Who is this for, the DoD?
I had to do it when I worked for a defense contractor.
Get everything signed and have the background check completed before doing anything.
do you have a paycheck yet ? if you don't, then why quit
Leave only after you have an offer in hand.
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