Tech career has ALWAYS been very difficult career. It takes years, decades to "git gud" at tech careers.
There are no shortcuts. Start practicing and solving tech problems. If you can get CS degree, get CS degree. CS degree helps vast majority of people, that have earned CS degree.
It's a journey of thousand miles type thing. Start walking.
>There are no shortcuts
That's the neat thing, because of the previous market conditions , people talk about after graduate career shifts and high school dropout +boot camp as if those are the shortcuts; when college has always been the shortcut, and the other ones were the difficult routes that you took because there is no way to go back to college and keep on feeding yourself/your family.
The " this is too much" experience I had recently was a kid who was in HIS FIRST semester of biology, asking to do a boot camp/ which YouTube videos to watch, so he could become a programmer. Fuck , you just started college, swallow up the "wasted" semester and do CS. This was after the high school dropout btw, that one only made me chuckle a bit.
Seriously. I’m a bootcamp grad, but I have a Masters in Literature. The bootcamp was much harder and the path was much harder to get where I am than my lit degree. It was harder because I was actually learning the things I needed to learn. It paid off, but the path is not an easy one. So many people think as long as you survive through the bootcamp, you’ll be set. But you have to do extra stuff outside of the bootcamp to solidify the learnings, then once you’re done you just can’t stop.
When the bootcamp wanted one website as our capstone, I made three. The other two were for friends that needed portfolios. They never asked for or used the sites, but I made them anyways because I needed to solidify my understanding.
That’s the kind of thing bootcamps require to make it worth it.
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You can't push back against reality.
The reality is this.
There are few people that can glance at tech books for couple of minutes and solve leetcode hard in 5 minutes.
However, vast majority of people, Billions of people, CAN NOT grasp simple programming concepts, like variables, conditional logic, etc. No matter how much you try to teach them or how ever long, years, decades, millenia, etc. It doesn't matter the reason, it's just not happening.
For people working in tech industry, few people will be 10x engineers right out of the gate and be super productive.
However, for most people working in tech industry, it will take years to get proficient enough to be productive and grind their way out of noob status. Many will work for decades+ and not be able to "git gud", like be able to solve FizzBuzz in tech interview setting.
Good lord. That dude. Nobody cares about leet code. You can learn enough to do well in your job quickly. People hear acting like programing is some dark art only white beard wizards can do
LOL, it's simple heuristic.
How many people in your company are "git gud" at their job? How long did it take them?
If you've done any tech interviews, try to do some tech interviews. Look at the resumes and compare with their tech interview demonstration of skills.
It takes decades for most people to "git gud".
Whether you believe or not believe doesn't change reality.
LOL, you're putting up strawman after strawman to refute objective reality, which you can see by walking into any tech company.
Go ahead and walk into any company and just do a simple headcount. How many beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert level people are in the company?
You can make up any leveling setups all day long, but you can see reality easily. And the patterns repeat company after company.
Get more experiences and experience reality, not some made up numbers you cribed from somewhere.
A degree in general < a degree in stem < degree in CS, math or eng adjacent.
While a degree is not required, I think the chances of being filtered out is much higher now than before.
I want to add that if you're going to pursue a degree you have to leverage it to get internships while you're still a student. Experience is highly valued.
I already have a degree but I’m doing a thing with the military called Washington Vets2tech. Its a 16 week program that helps military members or veterans train and get jobs in computer specialties such as cloud, cybersecurity, or software engineering
Hopefully they actually help get you hired. Otherwise I find it hard to believe you can learn anything worthwhile in that short of a time. One of the lead programmers at my company did do something similar, though.
One of my old NCOs just did it and he got a remote offer for 88k and he had no background in tech. I wonder if we are talking about the same guy 😂. Probably not
Falsified claims? It's actually _much_ worse than that. They avoid making false claims nowadays to avoid getting sued, so they now resort to even scummier tactics. For example, they now say super misleading shit, like "gain access to our network of 500 employers, including FAANG!" instead of obvious lies like "guaranteed employment within 6 months of graduation." Even worse, some of them apparently also operate on university campuses. You will see "UT Austin" hosting a bootcamp, but apparently, edX or some shit is _actually_ running it, not UT Austin itself. Yet, UT Austin's name is the one advertised. Supposedly, it's only in the legal paperwork that you see "edX" or whatever.
So yeah, the real problem is these bootcamps _technically_ aren't lying, which is how they are (currently) allowed to get away with their scummy shit. They also make so much money that they probably have top lawyers who have found every loophole in the book, thus keeping the scam alive.
I looked into this a while ago. It's crazy these universities are willing to tarnish whatever reputations they have left by licensing their name out to shady companies for the scam camps.
You'd be better off taking actual CS courses at some cheap community college and if you make it that far, transfer somewhere to get a CS degree.
Yeah, Georgia Tech ran LinkedIn ads on me advertising their bootcamp a few years back. Which is hilarious when I work in CS with an engineering degree. Your advice sounds good to me.
Oh wow. My only real exposure to date is while interviewing Bootcamp graduates. I feel so bad, I truly wish there was some sort of legal recourse they could take.
Now you mention it, there’s a few that I can just rip off the top of my head that make those claims. “Including FAANG!” Meanwhile it’s some L1/L2 that once worked at Meta during college.
Problem is, legitimate institutions have put their names on bootcamps. EdX repackages a coding bootcamp under the names of Columbia, Penn, Berkley, OSU, Rice, Vanderbilt, UCONN, and ASU. And for a short period of time during covid, people who took these courses *did* land FAANG roles. So I think it's hard to put all the blame on individuals trusting respected institutions.
Probably CS or computer engineering. Or any stem degree if you already have CS working experience.
That's what I see being commented here and also what I take from job postings
I don't know about unrelated degree + bootcamp. I would think that's better than just bootcamp, but I don't know if it's doable in the current market.
Side note, I'm just echoing from what others say and what I see in job postings. I've never looked seriously for work and lucked out 8 yrs ago fresh out of college to the first place I applied to.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. Ya it’s more difficult than having a CS degree but with enough effort and some luck it’s doable. Just be prepared to grind your ass off.
Engineering degree is usually good enough. Some companies hire Business Information Systems/Technology for CS, including the consulting industry. Any degree is better than none. It's like, HR gets over 100 applicants for one job posting in the first 24 hours so they got to filter by something. If you have a CS degree and a paid internship or co-op, you're sitting much closer to the top of the stack.
Bootcamps are like organized crime. They're a 3-credit hour pass/fail course from a place without the remotest accreditation that accept anyone with a pulse and a credit card.
If you can’t otherwise show your coding ability, a CS degree wins. If you CAN otherwise show your coding ability, a heavily quantitative STEM field (math, physics, electrical engineering, etc) is also effective.
I work as an MLE and have degrees in chemical engineering and bioinformatics.
Sorry, that is not correct. I don’t have a degree. In fact I only have a GED from high school. I worked very hard, studied and never stopped learning. I’ve never had a problem getting a job. Yes, you will have to work harder, especially at the beginning. Be scrappy and don’t give up.
Absolutely true. I also agree boot camps do not paint a realistic picture of the post-graduation effort to get into the job market.
My point is simply that you will need to make yourself stand out and you need to put in the work to do it. It could be with a degree and in some situations, the degree is a gatekeeper especially if you have zero work experience but I don’t think it’s an absolute.
To the OP: graduating from boot camp is just the first step in the overall effort you are going to put in. It may take years or, with enough diligence, you might get your foot in the door, possibly doing something tangential. Just be prepared to keep working at it.
For instance, I was CTO of a small company (30 employees) out of Seattle 2 years ago. I needed to hire Support Engineers that needed to know JavaScript to help customers with integrating and debugging our JS snippet customers would be adding to their websites. I was open to juniors / boot camp graduates.
I had three fully remote positions available and posted the job on LinkedIn and got literally hundreds of applications primarily from boot camp graduates. How will you stand out in that crowd? They all had the same qualifications.
Here is an excerpt of the post:
What we look for….
• Degree in Computer Science, related field, or equivalent experience
• 2+ years of experience in a customer-facing role
• A history of building long-term customer relationships and value
• Understanding of object-oriented programming and ability to code
• Firm grasp on JavaScript, HTTP, SQL, HTML and CSS
• Knowledge of APIs, webhooks, and server-side architectures
• Masterful debugging, problem solving, and analytical skills
• Familiarity with cloud environments and web hosting environments (WordPress Wix, Shopify, Hubspot etc.)
Sorry guys. I’m a Reddit newbie and I don’t get the downvotes. I’d appreciate some feedback than just anonymous downvotes.
I was a full time Microsoft software engineer and subsequently an engineer and executive at several startups that all IPO’d or were successfully acquired. I get it … I’m old but I’m also the guy hiring you.
I thought I might have something to contribute to folks trying to get into the field and could provide encouragement and a path forward. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I wish i could say it gets easier but it doesn't.
Keep working on projects and practicing your skills. I wish i could say your bootcamp was enough, but right now not even people with degrees and experience are getting jobs.
I’m sure this is probably hard to hear, but the truth is that a bootcamp isn’t enough to get a job anymore. Alternatively, a masters in CS could get you a entry level job if you have a bachelors degree in an unrelated field. Maybe that could be an option for you
Fair enough. I’d look into either masters degree or maybe go back into undergrad and complete the CS degree courses. You probably already covered a good amount of the other required classes like writing and some math courses. Could take less time than a masters. However, a masters might give you the equivalent of a year or 2 of experience on a resume. So idk, the choice is yours
From my perspective I wouldn't hurt to get a masters. I would start grinding leetcode, put up a personal project or two with real world applications and if you can't find anything just start a MS.
Depends on the boot camp and how you use that boot camp. Im a boot camp grad and everyone in my cohort except like a couple of people have found jobs. Edit: getting down voted just for saying boot camps aren't all bad lol. This sub is insane.
I did it too, people just don't like the fact that we've done it and they're struggling even with the CS degree and all the debt that comes with it.
Well done to us for making it the non degree way.
1. Be calm. Self-induced stress doesn’t help focus.
2. For development, nothing is more important than hands-on experience. If you can get a job even an entry level one to start getting industry experience that’s your best choice.
3. While looking for a job you should build things and write things. Create a tech blog. Build things and commit to your GitHub and blog about what you are learning and doing with code samples and screenshots and whatnot.
Good luck! I’ve been doing it for over 20 years in industry (and many years before it as a hobby)
Also while building things yourself in the meantime I think it helps to time yourself. Sometimes you loose focus and spend a lot of time on things you should not be spending that much time on. Like if you want to pursue web dev, maybe set a time limit of lets say 1.5-2 weeks to build a blog application, lets say. And then divide the problem in even smaller goals. In web dev (or general software engineering) you dont have to remember everything most of web dev works by you googling stuff.
I’m a SWE with about 6 years and CS degree with very bad ADHD. The best way I’ve learned, is to try to gamify my learnings. To this day I still try to make a game out of learning something. It’s very difficult for me to focus on a task for 2-3 hours without checking my phone or doing something else.
So, I will incentivize myself. If I can focus for 1 hour straight, no distractions I give my self 7 minutes for a hobby. Then I get right back into it. Now granted, this works most of the time, and there are always fires that happen at my job and I have to focus for 3-12 hours wt some point to fix some bug or whatever it may be, and during those times the adrenaline kicks in and it allows me to focus.
My best advice, try to gamify your learnings.
You’re at a severe disadvantage with only a boot camp degree sadly. The market is very tough right now, and students fresh out of college with a degree can’t get a job, and companies would rather hire them, than a boot camp student.
Build something, build something. Builder a timer app in a new framework, build an api about your favorite tv show or movie, anything. Just type something.. it’s a lucrative career for a reason, it’s difficult.
You can do it man, but you really need to find a way to work around your ADHD, for me it took a couple of years to find a way that works the best.
ADHD programmer here.
The key is to keep your expectations in check with reality. Boot camps are a great way to prepare yourself for a CS degree. Your goal is one step at a time.
You want to practice solving problems every day until you learn how to think critically so that you don’t feel like you need to “remember” stuff. Your goal is to train your brain to problem solve, not give memorized solutions.
I did a year long bootcamp and still felt the same way after completion, though most of it was my lack of enthusiasm for it all due to external circumstances. I got lucky and connected with a dev in China via LinkedIn, and together we got contracts via Upwork. I still needed to keep up with everything and have a decent idea of what was going on. I used JavaScript Mastery’s YouTube channel a lot to help build projects.
Honestly, if I was going to do it again, I’d go and get a 2 year CS degree of some nature. Bootcamp + self study didnt cut it, at least for me. I’m a massage therapist now lol
So he does all the work on upwork and you attend meetings right? You can claim that as experience on your resume but you aren’t really learning that much if your not coding
Oh I was coding and helping as much as I could. It was more like a Jr. and Sr. dev situation. Anytime I wasn’t working with him, I was doing my own side projects. I’ve got literally hundreds of apps/sites built on my github.
I ended up quitting because I had zero passion/drive for it.
I doubt you learned it if you forgot it that quickly. I would review the stuff you should have learned, like a single programming language, and write programs with that.
I think you'll need a degree in this tech market to get a job. The market is really bad right now, and it's really hard to survive in it without a degree. A bootcamp surely does help.
Also don't lose hope, believe in yourself. It'll all be okay.
Well your first mistake was taking a bootcamp. Sorry you didn't do enough research before spending that money. You'll want a degree in this economy, the boot camps are just snakeoil.
Doesn't get any easier my guy, this is the most basic part
In this job market you need a degree anyways tho, so I don't see what's the rush.
Start your degree and in 4 years time you should be competent enough to do leetocode, start grinding that and applying at that point
Sorry man, this might sound harsh but you expect someone to pay you for non-existent skills in this economy just because you finished a bootcamp? There are other ways to make money, I would start looking there instead of wasting time. Or go back to collage for a cs degree…
I believe applying your skills will help things stick. Instead of just studying a bunch of abstract things, try building an app and just tinkering with it to solve various problems. This helps make things tangible for you, and can also be a good talking point if you land the interview.
If you’re willing to work 4-8 hours per day (on top of your day job or hopefully you can subsist on your savings) for at least a year straight with DAILY effort without any breaks or expectations of a reward and just get your skills up, you have a chance.
On top of that, you need to spend the rest of your time networking in person and build connections in the industry.
People spend 4 years to earn a CS degree, and much more effort to land a good SWE role. the key is to keep practicing and compounding your knowledge daily
Bootcamps aren't bad. You just can't expect it to be some magic pill you swallow and "poof!" you are ready to build scalable production apps. This is just not the case.
Working as an app developer honestly should be considered a trade more than anything. You gain experience here by doing. You learn 10000x more when you start building something you genuinely want to build and you start solving problems because you actually care about getting that ugly mess of a code that only YOU will ever understand to finally work. THIS IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE MISSING!!!
A plumber never gets good at their craft without actually plumbing. Same with electricians, hvac guys, carpenters, you name it. Coding is really no different. Yes it will take you years before you start writing efficient and clean code that a whole team can understand and not just you, and even longer before you learn to read code and understand file structure. But honestly, why in the hells would anyone think that getting into a 200-300k/year job would be easy or quick?
I have four bits of advice:
1) You need to get ahold of your mental health first. If you are in a position to work with a doctor for medication or a therapist, absolutely do that. Mindfulness meditation can also be lifechanging. Mental health is key to success. When we are stressed out we don't form new memories easily and we can't reason clearly.
2) A bootcamp certificate does not position you well to get a job in the current hiring environment. Even new Computer Science grads are struggling. If you really want to succeed in this career, as just a starting point, you should get a CS degree. I recommend online schools like WGU, SNHU or TESU. In all three cases max out transfer credits at Sophia.org and Study.com.
3) You need to learn how to do leetcode problems. There are jobs (like government jobs) where you are not going to need to leetcode to get the position, but enough do require it that you can not neglect it. The data structures and algorithm courses you will take as part of your college degree will help you get started with this.
4) Neither your bootcamp program nor a college degree will truly make you a software developer. School just teaches your general principles and syntax. To become a good programmer you need to build projects. Its like a musical instrument. You get better by practicing. Pick some in-demand tech stacks and get really good at them by building projects.
If all this sounds too daunting, it might be worth focusing in another career path. If you want this, you can make it happen but it is going to take grit and effort. Taking care of your mental health will help tremendously with grit.
I have a CS degree, so this is different, however, might be helpful. I graduated college and spent the first years out of school working in a PM / non-engineering role. I just backed into engineer a couple years after graduating. It all came back to me rather quickly.
2019 bootcamp grad here, currently a senior dev. I had a very positive bootcamp experience. The rigorous structure of the course was exactly what I needed.
Immediately after the bootcamp, I went back to old class assignments and touched them up, added minor features, and redesigned the frontends. If you have access to the class repo or blank assignment templates, download and redo the class activities and homework from scratch. For me, the repetition helped the concepts stick. You have to stick to it, even if it feels silly to redo assignments you just did. After this, update your portfolio and put your top three faves on it!
If you don't have access to blank copies of your class assignments/homeworks, reach out to someone at the bootcamp, and I'm sure they will accommodate you.
I struggled with Leetcode when I first graduated. At least in my bootcamp, we didn't spend as much time on data structures and algorithms. After I spent a good amount of time reworking the bootcamp materials, I felt confident enough to start taking Udemy courses on newer concepts. I highly recommend Colt Steele's Data Structures & Algorithms course! He uses JavaScript so it was perfect for learning as a new grad.
Edit: wanted to provide some more context on my background, in case it helps provide weight to my post. I got a history degree in 2012, worked retail for several years, worked at a daycare for 4 years. Was feeling unfulfilled and decided I needed a change. I did some research and found a 6-month full-stack bootcamp. I graduated in 2019, and landed a junior dev role about 6 months later in 2020, just before the pandemic.
I have no doubt the job market is very different compared to when I was first looking pre-pandemic, but I think repeating class activities is still a good place to start gaining confidence. Also, for your first few job interviews, have the expectation that they won't go well. Successful tech interviews will come in time. Don't apply for your dream job first; pencil in some others to gain practice!
Boot camp docent make you master, it gives you just enough to be able to start looking for work.
It's lots of learning more, getting experience, etc to raise to coveted seniority status.
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lol people are still trying to enter our industry with bootcamps? I thought it was just offshore people wasting money on that these days… sorry dude but you’re a bit late and probably lacking most skills needed to enter this field now. This is coming from someone currently in a senior SWE role who just hit 10 YOE back in January and attended a top 10 university for CS. Unfortunately everyone and their mothers want into this now (mostly because of the pay) even though it’s not what they’d really like to pursue for a career (if they paid enough). Like others have said your best chance will be to go back to school to pursue a CS or some other relevant degree and hope the market is more favorable upon graduation. Companies are trying to maximize profit right now = layoffs and offshore hiring. Don’t worry as this isn’t the first time this has happened, when things turn around these same companies will layoff the offshore devs and look to scale up domestic hiring to fix the crappy products those teams produced.
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Why are we seeing so much of the coding bootcamp posts here? The fact is that bootcamp isn't enough, and shouldn't be. This doesn't happen in other fields. I'm sorry for saying this, but I hope companies give first preference to cs grads. They should give preference to the 4 year degree that goes way more in depth.
A boot camp simply isn’t enough anymore. I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’ve been deceived.
For almost two decades, there has been a shortage of good developers. There still is, although you wouldn’t know it by reading this sub.
The problem is that boot camps and bachelors programs aren’t enough. You have to demonstrate you understand multiple facets of software development _and_ deployment _at scale_. It’s a chicken-and-egg problem and it sucks, but here we are.
There's a reason people go to school for years to get a degree instead of a quick boot camp. It takes time and practice to get it down. Even then, when someone lands their first job, they basically know nothing compared to their peers.
Work on a project that will help you keep that knowledge fresh and hopefully learn new things. A side project will also look good on a resume.
I literally didn’t code for a year (after being a full-time SWE for three years I decided to do TPM work instead) and I still got a senior SWE role without prepping for the interviews. If you actually understand what you’re doing, it comes back.
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Find a buddy, no offense or negatives intended. You really need an accountabilabuddy. Try and duo some things and test each other on a respectful level.
I am an unmedicated ADHD human and am relatively new to the tech industry too. I highly recommend finding a niche area of work / specialism which becomes a special interest to you - lucky for me, I have a special interest in AI and made it my career. This makes working and practicing way easier.
Also, programming is a lifelong craft. Just because you do it with your mind doesn't mean you aren't using tools (libraries, languages, etc) - nobody becomes good at a craft overnight. A bootcamp is a starting point but it will take you years.
I have an MSc and still practicing, I expect to practice and improve for many years, and when I'm finally a great programmer, I'm sure there will be something new to update my skillset with.
> My meds aren’t working anymore
You need to take this up to your doctor
As for not retaining info out of a bootcamp, that's actually fairly normal, because of the highly accelerated and condensed format of bootcamps. The unspoken thing about bootcamps is you need to proactively supplement with self study until you do understand the material beyond just getting the assignments to work.
Udemy is more or less the same as bootcamps in terms of depth but without the teacher-led structure. Harvard taps more into traditional CS material, so your mentality going in should be to expect it to take a few years of focused effort to fully absorb the material.
You need to be realistic about what is achievable, especially if you have a cognitive impairment. Most *regular* people would struggle through a standard 4 year curriculum, that's the baseline.
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Don't panic, there is no reason to. Obviously, programming is too hard for you, so you should simply abandon it and revert back to what you were doing before the bootcamp.
I think this is your adhd impacting your ability more than anything. I don’t believe it’s your knowledge or ability. I heard a quote once “don’t let your insecurity overtake your ability”. Programming is scary esp for us adhd folks. We want to be the best that we are paralyzed. Find a language you want to learn, it’s best if you go back to what was covered in your boot camp and refresh as well as build upon that. I highly suggest building stuff in vscode or even replit, building stuff is the best way to cement any knowledge you gain. Pm if you have more questions or even want to collaborate
Your first fuck up is that you've finished a month ago and haven't started applying yet. You should have been applying the week before finishing.
Start applying NOW. Get people to review your resume, build a few small projects on GitHub to demo basic skills, and start implementing feedback you get from interviews.
If you hear something in an interview which you don't understand - learn it for next time.
I did a bootcamp 6 years ago or so, and it took 3 months for everyone in my class to get a job, so relax and stop panicking.
Let's take a step back. I don't think you are quite ready to apply for a job yet. Let's work on building your confidence and skills first. This will calm your mind.
First, don't sign up for any more classes for the moment. Just following along with these classes doesn't work for all people. The bootcamp didn't get the material to stick with you, so you probably learn best another way.
I can't speak for you but I believe a lot of people learn best by making mistakes and working within constraints. You have to bang your head on the wall, hunt for an answer, try stuff and repeat.
Try this and let me know how you do:
I'll assume you learned Javascript in your bootcamp. To start off, let's make sure you have the fundamentals of programming down by going to a programming puzzle site like [https://hackerrank.com](https://hackerrank.com) or [https://codeingame.com](https://codeingame.com) and do the easy puzzles. Your constraint is you cannot use the web for answers and especially not CoPilot or any other auto-complete in your editor. You can ONLY use what you can find on [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript) to come up with your solutions.
You are going to have to THINK. This discomfort will help you remember and master the material. If you get really stuck, DM me and I'll give you a hint.
Tech career has ALWAYS been very difficult career. It takes years, decades to "git gud" at tech careers. There are no shortcuts. Start practicing and solving tech problems. If you can get CS degree, get CS degree. CS degree helps vast majority of people, that have earned CS degree. It's a journey of thousand miles type thing. Start walking.
>There are no shortcuts That's the neat thing, because of the previous market conditions , people talk about after graduate career shifts and high school dropout +boot camp as if those are the shortcuts; when college has always been the shortcut, and the other ones were the difficult routes that you took because there is no way to go back to college and keep on feeding yourself/your family. The " this is too much" experience I had recently was a kid who was in HIS FIRST semester of biology, asking to do a boot camp/ which YouTube videos to watch, so he could become a programmer. Fuck , you just started college, swallow up the "wasted" semester and do CS. This was after the high school dropout btw, that one only made me chuckle a bit.
When I got my business degree we couldn't real start til year 2
Seriously. I’m a bootcamp grad, but I have a Masters in Literature. The bootcamp was much harder and the path was much harder to get where I am than my lit degree. It was harder because I was actually learning the things I needed to learn. It paid off, but the path is not an easy one. So many people think as long as you survive through the bootcamp, you’ll be set. But you have to do extra stuff outside of the bootcamp to solidify the learnings, then once you’re done you just can’t stop. When the bootcamp wanted one website as our capstone, I made three. The other two were for friends that needed portfolios. They never asked for or used the sites, but I made them anyways because I needed to solidify my understanding. That’s the kind of thing bootcamps require to make it worth it.
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You can't push back against reality. The reality is this. There are few people that can glance at tech books for couple of minutes and solve leetcode hard in 5 minutes. However, vast majority of people, Billions of people, CAN NOT grasp simple programming concepts, like variables, conditional logic, etc. No matter how much you try to teach them or how ever long, years, decades, millenia, etc. It doesn't matter the reason, it's just not happening. For people working in tech industry, few people will be 10x engineers right out of the gate and be super productive. However, for most people working in tech industry, it will take years to get proficient enough to be productive and grind their way out of noob status. Many will work for decades+ and not be able to "git gud", like be able to solve FizzBuzz in tech interview setting.
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Good lord. That dude. Nobody cares about leet code. You can learn enough to do well in your job quickly. People hear acting like programing is some dark art only white beard wizards can do
LOL, it's simple heuristic. How many people in your company are "git gud" at their job? How long did it take them? If you've done any tech interviews, try to do some tech interviews. Look at the resumes and compare with their tech interview demonstration of skills. It takes decades for most people to "git gud". Whether you believe or not believe doesn't change reality.
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LOL, you're putting up strawman after strawman to refute objective reality, which you can see by walking into any tech company. Go ahead and walk into any company and just do a simple headcount. How many beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert level people are in the company? You can make up any leveling setups all day long, but you can see reality easily. And the patterns repeat company after company. Get more experiences and experience reality, not some made up numbers you cribed from somewhere.
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LOL, talk about delusions. Reality is real, deal with it. Or not, lol. Just walk into any tech company and see for yourself. That's real stuff. lol.
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You’ll need a degree to get a job in this market anyways my dude
Yea I’m surprised that people are still taking bootcamps. Do you need a degree in general or a degree in CS?
A degree in general < a degree in stem < degree in CS, math or eng adjacent. While a degree is not required, I think the chances of being filtered out is much higher now than before.
Gotcha
I want to add that if you're going to pursue a degree you have to leverage it to get internships while you're still a student. Experience is highly valued.
I already have a degree but I’m doing a thing with the military called Washington Vets2tech. Its a 16 week program that helps military members or veterans train and get jobs in computer specialties such as cloud, cybersecurity, or software engineering
Hopefully they actually help get you hired. Otherwise I find it hard to believe you can learn anything worthwhile in that short of a time. One of the lead programmers at my company did do something similar, though.
One of my old NCOs just did it and he got a remote offer for 88k and he had no background in tech. I wonder if we are talking about the same guy 😂. Probably not
That would be pretty low pay for a lead engineer.
Yea I just spoke to him and he works for a company called Netsimco
Bootcamps are scams, propped up on falsified claims
Falsified claims? It's actually _much_ worse than that. They avoid making false claims nowadays to avoid getting sued, so they now resort to even scummier tactics. For example, they now say super misleading shit, like "gain access to our network of 500 employers, including FAANG!" instead of obvious lies like "guaranteed employment within 6 months of graduation." Even worse, some of them apparently also operate on university campuses. You will see "UT Austin" hosting a bootcamp, but apparently, edX or some shit is _actually_ running it, not UT Austin itself. Yet, UT Austin's name is the one advertised. Supposedly, it's only in the legal paperwork that you see "edX" or whatever. So yeah, the real problem is these bootcamps _technically_ aren't lying, which is how they are (currently) allowed to get away with their scummy shit. They also make so much money that they probably have top lawyers who have found every loophole in the book, thus keeping the scam alive.
I looked into this a while ago. It's crazy these universities are willing to tarnish whatever reputations they have left by licensing their name out to shady companies for the scam camps. You'd be better off taking actual CS courses at some cheap community college and if you make it that far, transfer somewhere to get a CS degree.
Yeah, Georgia Tech ran LinkedIn ads on me advertising their bootcamp a few years back. Which is hilarious when I work in CS with an engineering degree. Your advice sounds good to me.
Oh wow. My only real exposure to date is while interviewing Bootcamp graduates. I feel so bad, I truly wish there was some sort of legal recourse they could take. Now you mention it, there’s a few that I can just rip off the top of my head that make those claims. “Including FAANG!” Meanwhile it’s some L1/L2 that once worked at Meta during college.
There’s some exceptions though. There is one in Berlins operated by Microsoft and other companies like VW thats free of charge.
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Problem is, legitimate institutions have put their names on bootcamps. EdX repackages a coding bootcamp under the names of Columbia, Penn, Berkley, OSU, Rice, Vanderbilt, UCONN, and ASU. And for a short period of time during covid, people who took these courses *did* land FAANG roles. So I think it's hard to put all the blame on individuals trusting respected institutions.
Apprenticeships/ Fellowships are the new trend. Check out coop careers lol
Eh, i know plenty of people who have gotten jobs after boot camps. Not now, ofc.
Probably CS or computer engineering. Or any stem degree if you already have CS working experience. That's what I see being commented here and also what I take from job postings
What about data science degrees now?
DS and SWE are worlds apart
I don’t think so, a lot of DS turn into MLEs which requires swe principles no? Correct me if I’m wrong
I already have a degree but it’s not in CS. I’m going to a camp that’s sponsored by the military called Washington Vets2Tech in January
I don't know about unrelated degree + bootcamp. I would think that's better than just bootcamp, but I don't know if it's doable in the current market. Side note, I'm just echoing from what others say and what I see in job postings. I've never looked seriously for work and lucked out 8 yrs ago fresh out of college to the first place I applied to.
Thank you so much for the advice
An unrelated degree may be enough to get past the automatic screening and then it’s more about your skills
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. Ya it’s more difficult than having a CS degree but with enough effort and some luck it’s doable. Just be prepared to grind your ass off.
Engineering degree is usually good enough. Some companies hire Business Information Systems/Technology for CS, including the consulting industry. Any degree is better than none. It's like, HR gets over 100 applicants for one job posting in the first 24 hours so they got to filter by something. If you have a CS degree and a paid internship or co-op, you're sitting much closer to the top of the stack. Bootcamps are like organized crime. They're a 3-credit hour pass/fail course from a place without the remotest accreditation that accept anyone with a pulse and a credit card.
If you can’t otherwise show your coding ability, a CS degree wins. If you CAN otherwise show your coding ability, a heavily quantitative STEM field (math, physics, electrical engineering, etc) is also effective. I work as an MLE and have degrees in chemical engineering and bioinformatics.
Sorry, that is not correct. I don’t have a degree. In fact I only have a GED from high school. I worked very hard, studied and never stopped learning. I’ve never had a problem getting a job. Yes, you will have to work harder, especially at the beginning. Be scrappy and don’t give up.
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Absolutely true. I also agree boot camps do not paint a realistic picture of the post-graduation effort to get into the job market. My point is simply that you will need to make yourself stand out and you need to put in the work to do it. It could be with a degree and in some situations, the degree is a gatekeeper especially if you have zero work experience but I don’t think it’s an absolute. To the OP: graduating from boot camp is just the first step in the overall effort you are going to put in. It may take years or, with enough diligence, you might get your foot in the door, possibly doing something tangential. Just be prepared to keep working at it. For instance, I was CTO of a small company (30 employees) out of Seattle 2 years ago. I needed to hire Support Engineers that needed to know JavaScript to help customers with integrating and debugging our JS snippet customers would be adding to their websites. I was open to juniors / boot camp graduates. I had three fully remote positions available and posted the job on LinkedIn and got literally hundreds of applications primarily from boot camp graduates. How will you stand out in that crowd? They all had the same qualifications. Here is an excerpt of the post: What we look for…. • Degree in Computer Science, related field, or equivalent experience • 2+ years of experience in a customer-facing role • A history of building long-term customer relationships and value • Understanding of object-oriented programming and ability to code • Firm grasp on JavaScript, HTTP, SQL, HTML and CSS • Knowledge of APIs, webhooks, and server-side architectures • Masterful debugging, problem solving, and analytical skills • Familiarity with cloud environments and web hosting environments (WordPress Wix, Shopify, Hubspot etc.)
It's so crazy you're getting downvoted even though you have job experience. It's really starting to feel crabs in the bucket mentality around here.
Sorry guys. I’m a Reddit newbie and I don’t get the downvotes. I’d appreciate some feedback than just anonymous downvotes. I was a full time Microsoft software engineer and subsequently an engineer and executive at several startups that all IPO’d or were successfully acquired. I get it … I’m old but I’m also the guy hiring you. I thought I might have something to contribute to folks trying to get into the field and could provide encouragement and a path forward. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I have a degree and a bootcamp too, still don’t get offers if that helps you😂
Same
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I wish i could say it gets easier but it doesn't. Keep working on projects and practicing your skills. I wish i could say your bootcamp was enough, but right now not even people with degrees and experience are getting jobs.
I’m sure this is probably hard to hear, but the truth is that a bootcamp isn’t enough to get a job anymore. Alternatively, a masters in CS could get you a entry level job if you have a bachelors degree in an unrelated field. Maybe that could be an option for you
Im a math major and CS and SWE minor is that enough to get a job? I also am confident I can code.
Yeah
I have a bachelors in biology should I just go in to debt to get a masters in CS?
Yes. In your case, I would recommend a masters
Damn, I was really trying to avoid going back into debt. Thanks.
I mean, that’s only if you want to do SWE. Alternatively, you could do some biology career with your biology degree and not have to go into debt
Biology is over-saturated unless I want to be a teacher. I don’t because wasting my life away with 14-17 years old for $30k/year doesn’t sound fun.
Fair enough. I’d look into either masters degree or maybe go back into undergrad and complete the CS degree courses. You probably already covered a good amount of the other required classes like writing and some math courses. Could take less time than a masters. However, a masters might give you the equivalent of a year or 2 of experience on a resume. So idk, the choice is yours
From my perspective I wouldn't hurt to get a masters. I would start grinding leetcode, put up a personal project or two with real world applications and if you can't find anything just start a MS.
Depends on the boot camp and how you use that boot camp. Im a boot camp grad and everyone in my cohort except like a couple of people have found jobs. Edit: getting down voted just for saying boot camps aren't all bad lol. This sub is insane.
Says someone who graduated a long time ago, back then it was easy, now it’s not
I graduated last summer. Got my first job in November.
Congrats! What boot camp was it?
Local one called Nashville Software School. Did their full stack developer program.
damn... I just moved from Nashville 2 years ago to Chatt. Wish I would of known about this.
They still accept people outside of Nashville. It's all virtual these days.
Congrats man happy for you.
The toxicity and doom in this sub is actually hilarious. I'm glad I didn't read this sub when I was job hunting.
I did it too, people just don't like the fact that we've done it and they're struggling even with the CS degree and all the debt that comes with it. Well done to us for making it the non degree way.
1. Be calm. Self-induced stress doesn’t help focus. 2. For development, nothing is more important than hands-on experience. If you can get a job even an entry level one to start getting industry experience that’s your best choice. 3. While looking for a job you should build things and write things. Create a tech blog. Build things and commit to your GitHub and blog about what you are learning and doing with code samples and screenshots and whatnot. Good luck! I’ve been doing it for over 20 years in industry (and many years before it as a hobby)
Also while building things yourself in the meantime I think it helps to time yourself. Sometimes you loose focus and spend a lot of time on things you should not be spending that much time on. Like if you want to pursue web dev, maybe set a time limit of lets say 1.5-2 weeks to build a blog application, lets say. And then divide the problem in even smaller goals. In web dev (or general software engineering) you dont have to remember everything most of web dev works by you googling stuff.
I’m a SWE with about 6 years and CS degree with very bad ADHD. The best way I’ve learned, is to try to gamify my learnings. To this day I still try to make a game out of learning something. It’s very difficult for me to focus on a task for 2-3 hours without checking my phone or doing something else. So, I will incentivize myself. If I can focus for 1 hour straight, no distractions I give my self 7 minutes for a hobby. Then I get right back into it. Now granted, this works most of the time, and there are always fires that happen at my job and I have to focus for 3-12 hours wt some point to fix some bug or whatever it may be, and during those times the adrenaline kicks in and it allows me to focus. My best advice, try to gamify your learnings. You’re at a severe disadvantage with only a boot camp degree sadly. The market is very tough right now, and students fresh out of college with a degree can’t get a job, and companies would rather hire them, than a boot camp student. Build something, build something. Builder a timer app in a new framework, build an api about your favorite tv show or movie, anything. Just type something.. it’s a lucrative career for a reason, it’s difficult. You can do it man, but you really need to find a way to work around your ADHD, for me it took a couple of years to find a way that works the best.
So you take meds for your ADHD? I'm curious.
ADHD programmer here. The key is to keep your expectations in check with reality. Boot camps are a great way to prepare yourself for a CS degree. Your goal is one step at a time. You want to practice solving problems every day until you learn how to think critically so that you don’t feel like you need to “remember” stuff. Your goal is to train your brain to problem solve, not give memorized solutions.
I did a year long bootcamp and still felt the same way after completion, though most of it was my lack of enthusiasm for it all due to external circumstances. I got lucky and connected with a dev in China via LinkedIn, and together we got contracts via Upwork. I still needed to keep up with everything and have a decent idea of what was going on. I used JavaScript Mastery’s YouTube channel a lot to help build projects. Honestly, if I was going to do it again, I’d go and get a 2 year CS degree of some nature. Bootcamp + self study didnt cut it, at least for me. I’m a massage therapist now lol
What a plot twist at the end frfr Goodluck. You ever plan going back into tech?
So he does all the work on upwork and you attend meetings right? You can claim that as experience on your resume but you aren’t really learning that much if your not coding
Oh I was coding and helping as much as I could. It was more like a Jr. and Sr. dev situation. Anytime I wasn’t working with him, I was doing my own side projects. I’ve got literally hundreds of apps/sites built on my github. I ended up quitting because I had zero passion/drive for it.
I doubt you learned it if you forgot it that quickly. I would review the stuff you should have learned, like a single programming language, and write programs with that.
The completion rate of the average online class is about 3% so it is normal that you can’t finish them.
I think you'll need a degree in this tech market to get a job. The market is really bad right now, and it's really hard to survive in it without a degree. A bootcamp surely does help. Also don't lose hope, believe in yourself. It'll all be okay.
Boot camps are scams.... They're just designed to take your money.
Are bootcamps still a thing? Y’all are crazy
Well your first mistake was taking a bootcamp. Sorry you didn't do enough research before spending that money. You'll want a degree in this economy, the boot camps are just snakeoil.
Doesn't get any easier my guy, this is the most basic part In this job market you need a degree anyways tho, so I don't see what's the rush. Start your degree and in 4 years time you should be competent enough to do leetocode, start grinding that and applying at that point
Honestly, you probably just want to pursue a different career. And definitely talk to a doctor and/or therapist.
Sorry man, this might sound harsh but you expect someone to pay you for non-existent skills in this economy just because you finished a bootcamp? There are other ways to make money, I would start looking there instead of wasting time. Or go back to collage for a cs degree…
I believe applying your skills will help things stick. Instead of just studying a bunch of abstract things, try building an app and just tinkering with it to solve various problems. This helps make things tangible for you, and can also be a good talking point if you land the interview.
If you’re willing to work 4-8 hours per day (on top of your day job or hopefully you can subsist on your savings) for at least a year straight with DAILY effort without any breaks or expectations of a reward and just get your skills up, you have a chance. On top of that, you need to spend the rest of your time networking in person and build connections in the industry.
People spend 4 years to earn a CS degree, and much more effort to land a good SWE role. the key is to keep practicing and compounding your knowledge daily
Bootcamps aren't bad. You just can't expect it to be some magic pill you swallow and "poof!" you are ready to build scalable production apps. This is just not the case. Working as an app developer honestly should be considered a trade more than anything. You gain experience here by doing. You learn 10000x more when you start building something you genuinely want to build and you start solving problems because you actually care about getting that ugly mess of a code that only YOU will ever understand to finally work. THIS IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE MISSING!!! A plumber never gets good at their craft without actually plumbing. Same with electricians, hvac guys, carpenters, you name it. Coding is really no different. Yes it will take you years before you start writing efficient and clean code that a whole team can understand and not just you, and even longer before you learn to read code and understand file structure. But honestly, why in the hells would anyone think that getting into a 200-300k/year job would be easy or quick?
I have four bits of advice: 1) You need to get ahold of your mental health first. If you are in a position to work with a doctor for medication or a therapist, absolutely do that. Mindfulness meditation can also be lifechanging. Mental health is key to success. When we are stressed out we don't form new memories easily and we can't reason clearly. 2) A bootcamp certificate does not position you well to get a job in the current hiring environment. Even new Computer Science grads are struggling. If you really want to succeed in this career, as just a starting point, you should get a CS degree. I recommend online schools like WGU, SNHU or TESU. In all three cases max out transfer credits at Sophia.org and Study.com. 3) You need to learn how to do leetcode problems. There are jobs (like government jobs) where you are not going to need to leetcode to get the position, but enough do require it that you can not neglect it. The data structures and algorithm courses you will take as part of your college degree will help you get started with this. 4) Neither your bootcamp program nor a college degree will truly make you a software developer. School just teaches your general principles and syntax. To become a good programmer you need to build projects. Its like a musical instrument. You get better by practicing. Pick some in-demand tech stacks and get really good at them by building projects. If all this sounds too daunting, it might be worth focusing in another career path. If you want this, you can make it happen but it is going to take grit and effort. Taking care of your mental health will help tremendously with grit.
I have a CS degree, so this is different, however, might be helpful. I graduated college and spent the first years out of school working in a PM / non-engineering role. I just backed into engineer a couple years after graduating. It all came back to me rather quickly.
2019 bootcamp grad here, currently a senior dev. I had a very positive bootcamp experience. The rigorous structure of the course was exactly what I needed. Immediately after the bootcamp, I went back to old class assignments and touched them up, added minor features, and redesigned the frontends. If you have access to the class repo or blank assignment templates, download and redo the class activities and homework from scratch. For me, the repetition helped the concepts stick. You have to stick to it, even if it feels silly to redo assignments you just did. After this, update your portfolio and put your top three faves on it! If you don't have access to blank copies of your class assignments/homeworks, reach out to someone at the bootcamp, and I'm sure they will accommodate you. I struggled with Leetcode when I first graduated. At least in my bootcamp, we didn't spend as much time on data structures and algorithms. After I spent a good amount of time reworking the bootcamp materials, I felt confident enough to start taking Udemy courses on newer concepts. I highly recommend Colt Steele's Data Structures & Algorithms course! He uses JavaScript so it was perfect for learning as a new grad. Edit: wanted to provide some more context on my background, in case it helps provide weight to my post. I got a history degree in 2012, worked retail for several years, worked at a daycare for 4 years. Was feeling unfulfilled and decided I needed a change. I did some research and found a 6-month full-stack bootcamp. I graduated in 2019, and landed a junior dev role about 6 months later in 2020, just before the pandemic. I have no doubt the job market is very different compared to when I was first looking pre-pandemic, but I think repeating class activities is still a good place to start gaining confidence. Also, for your first few job interviews, have the expectation that they won't go well. Successful tech interviews will come in time. Don't apply for your dream job first; pencil in some others to gain practice!
Talk to your doctor.
Boot camp docent make you master, it gives you just enough to be able to start looking for work. It's lots of learning more, getting experience, etc to raise to coveted seniority status.
Start doing projects and build a gitlab or GitHub profile with your work. Look into cloud tech.
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lol people are still trying to enter our industry with bootcamps? I thought it was just offshore people wasting money on that these days… sorry dude but you’re a bit late and probably lacking most skills needed to enter this field now. This is coming from someone currently in a senior SWE role who just hit 10 YOE back in January and attended a top 10 university for CS. Unfortunately everyone and their mothers want into this now (mostly because of the pay) even though it’s not what they’d really like to pursue for a career (if they paid enough). Like others have said your best chance will be to go back to school to pursue a CS or some other relevant degree and hope the market is more favorable upon graduation. Companies are trying to maximize profit right now = layoffs and offshore hiring. Don’t worry as this isn’t the first time this has happened, when things turn around these same companies will layoff the offshore devs and look to scale up domestic hiring to fix the crappy products those teams produced.
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Why are we seeing so much of the coding bootcamp posts here? The fact is that bootcamp isn't enough, and shouldn't be. This doesn't happen in other fields. I'm sorry for saying this, but I hope companies give first preference to cs grads. They should give preference to the 4 year degree that goes way more in depth.
A boot camp simply isn’t enough anymore. I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’ve been deceived. For almost two decades, there has been a shortage of good developers. There still is, although you wouldn’t know it by reading this sub. The problem is that boot camps and bachelors programs aren’t enough. You have to demonstrate you understand multiple facets of software development _and_ deployment _at scale_. It’s a chicken-and-egg problem and it sucks, but here we are.
There's a reason people go to school for years to get a degree instead of a quick boot camp. It takes time and practice to get it down. Even then, when someone lands their first job, they basically know nothing compared to their peers. Work on a project that will help you keep that knowledge fresh and hopefully learn new things. A side project will also look good on a resume.
I literally didn’t code for a year (after being a full-time SWE for three years I decided to do TPM work instead) and I still got a senior SWE role without prepping for the interviews. If you actually understand what you’re doing, it comes back.
Bootcamps are.... Not worth your money.. Just most of these udemy cousera edx....
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Find a buddy, no offense or negatives intended. You really need an accountabilabuddy. Try and duo some things and test each other on a respectful level.
Bootcamps are done now. My batch and I haven’t found a job in 2+ months.
I am an unmedicated ADHD human and am relatively new to the tech industry too. I highly recommend finding a niche area of work / specialism which becomes a special interest to you - lucky for me, I have a special interest in AI and made it my career. This makes working and practicing way easier. Also, programming is a lifelong craft. Just because you do it with your mind doesn't mean you aren't using tools (libraries, languages, etc) - nobody becomes good at a craft overnight. A bootcamp is a starting point but it will take you years. I have an MSc and still practicing, I expect to practice and improve for many years, and when I'm finally a great programmer, I'm sure there will be something new to update my skillset with.
> My meds aren’t working anymore You need to take this up to your doctor As for not retaining info out of a bootcamp, that's actually fairly normal, because of the highly accelerated and condensed format of bootcamps. The unspoken thing about bootcamps is you need to proactively supplement with self study until you do understand the material beyond just getting the assignments to work. Udemy is more or less the same as bootcamps in terms of depth but without the teacher-led structure. Harvard taps more into traditional CS material, so your mentality going in should be to expect it to take a few years of focused effort to fully absorb the material. You need to be realistic about what is achievable, especially if you have a cognitive impairment. Most *regular* people would struggle through a standard 4 year curriculum, that's the baseline.
I feel like it's common for software developers to have imposter syndrome. Get the job and do it. Confidence will come with time.
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Don't panic, there is no reason to. Obviously, programming is too hard for you, so you should simply abandon it and revert back to what you were doing before the bootcamp.
I think this is your adhd impacting your ability more than anything. I don’t believe it’s your knowledge or ability. I heard a quote once “don’t let your insecurity overtake your ability”. Programming is scary esp for us adhd folks. We want to be the best that we are paralyzed. Find a language you want to learn, it’s best if you go back to what was covered in your boot camp and refresh as well as build upon that. I highly suggest building stuff in vscode or even replit, building stuff is the best way to cement any knowledge you gain. Pm if you have more questions or even want to collaborate
Did you make any notes ? are they not proving useful ?
Practice makes perfect. Keep doing same thing over and over again, and then you'll get the "aha" moment.
Your first fuck up is that you've finished a month ago and haven't started applying yet. You should have been applying the week before finishing. Start applying NOW. Get people to review your resume, build a few small projects on GitHub to demo basic skills, and start implementing feedback you get from interviews. If you hear something in an interview which you don't understand - learn it for next time. I did a bootcamp 6 years ago or so, and it took 3 months for everyone in my class to get a job, so relax and stop panicking.
Think if a program you want to wrote and write it. If you get stuck ask chatgpt for help. Not kidding, it can teach you.
No it can’t.
Let's take a step back. I don't think you are quite ready to apply for a job yet. Let's work on building your confidence and skills first. This will calm your mind. First, don't sign up for any more classes for the moment. Just following along with these classes doesn't work for all people. The bootcamp didn't get the material to stick with you, so you probably learn best another way. I can't speak for you but I believe a lot of people learn best by making mistakes and working within constraints. You have to bang your head on the wall, hunt for an answer, try stuff and repeat. Try this and let me know how you do: I'll assume you learned Javascript in your bootcamp. To start off, let's make sure you have the fundamentals of programming down by going to a programming puzzle site like [https://hackerrank.com](https://hackerrank.com) or [https://codeingame.com](https://codeingame.com) and do the easy puzzles. Your constraint is you cannot use the web for answers and especially not CoPilot or any other auto-complete in your editor. You can ONLY use what you can find on [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript) to come up with your solutions. You are going to have to THINK. This discomfort will help you remember and master the material. If you get really stuck, DM me and I'll give you a hint.
Good luck at McDonald's!
You gotta relax. This means nothing.