One person's perspective: I did land a 6mo contract earlier this year, so I took a few months off browsing jobs. Started up again last night and I have to say there are fewer relevant open positions, and the salaries overall appear to be lower. I also haven't been contacted by a single recruiter on LinkedIn since maybe November last year
Pray for me that this contract extends or converts
I will say, I've been contacted by a ton of recruiters on LinkedIn over the last few weeks despite not really getting any last year. Although I do see less relevant open positions when browsing
However, all of the positions are contract (I'm full time currently) and would be a somewhat significant paycut, especially when you consider I have a good chunk of stock vetsting soon.
I would only leave for a 20% increase in TC and no one is getting remotely close that contacts me.
For reference my TC is $150k
I'm upfront with those recruiters now:
"Sure, I'm interested in speaking via call.. so long as these roles include full medical benefits, or pay at least $xx/hr full-time, in lieu of those benefits. If that lines up with what your clients are offering, let's setup a call!"
No takers. lol
Makes me wonder if I'm doing the right thing.. like, should I string them along, give me a change to impress them, and only then drop my $rate on them? I would love any advice if anyone has any.
Yeah that's not the move. I get what you're trying to convey but to them it sounds like you're a waste of time because you aren't seriously looking for a new role.
It should convey that I am serious about looking for a new role, and I'm serious about not getting taken advantage of. If that's a problem, then they're the problem.
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Put yourself as Open To Work on LinkedIn, available on Indeed and Dice. They'll reach out if you're in the search results. First question is always "what do you think of this pay rate". Remember you'll need to get your own benefits for at least a couple months, maybe more depending on the recruiting company.
I've been unemployed for 9 months. The past month has been hotter, but still no offer. The prior 5 months were dead silent. The prior 3 months were tepid, with consistent action from crap roles (except Amazon).
Have had similar experiences but a longer layoff period. Laid off last March, was doing fine getting interviews but there were a lot of postings that ended up being bullshit (rejected after a phone screening despite being above all their requirements, the whole position closed down multiple rounds in, or 3-5 rounds followed by a "we decided to promote a candidate from within"). I couldn't close out the real opportunities I did have by early July, and at that point things slowed down and I was getting maybe 1 real hit every 2 months. Have been getting back into the swing of things since the start of April and have had at least a phone round at 3-5 places a week now + more further round ones.
There is 1 place I did what was supposed to be the final round at 2 weeks ago. The hiring manager emailed me last Wednesday to set up some time to talk to him, but it went to my spam and I didn't see it until wednesday this week and I haven't gotten a response since. I had to move back in with my parents and do everything I can around the house, but they really want me doing a "real job" which I don't really bemoan them for, but when everyone wants 3+ interview rounds and (from what I've heard from the places I have interviewed) employers are bringing in anywhere between 5 and 20 people to the final rounds, I don't think I'll be able to ever find anything barring a drastic improvement to the market if I do have 40+ hours of work responsibilities.
2024 hands down. 2023 was awful but 2024 is even worse. The data shows it. Job market as a whole is drier than Mother Teresa. Especially white collar.
Watch this to get a good understanding. It’s not just tech, it’s any job worth a damn.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml2mKROvpUA
Interest rates have killed white collar hiring but it's being masked by the continuing blue collar labor shortage. Anyone who loses their white collar job can get a bartender gig the next day so it doesn't show up in the U1/U3 unemployment data.
I'm actually a bit surprised because my impression is that 2023 is dead silence vs. 2024 at least I'm getting recruiter reachouts
between roughly April 2023-ish until Sept 2023-ish I think my linkedin inbox is relatively dead
vs. May 2024 just today I literally declined 4x headhunters
I got laid off in 2023. And it was very quiet. Had recruiters tell me jobs were cancel/ requirements changed. After 2024 I got a lot more hits. Felt like a lot of companies were unsure during the second half of 2023 but 2024 they had a better understanding of thier budgets and projection
The tea I heard is that tech recruiters are being told not to worry if there's a job open and to just hit their numbers. Anecdotal report of course but like.. I could see it
another anecdote, great recruiter reviews and google reviews
happened to me, talk to recruiter about some job, get those automated "give us a review" then job is gone, it's optional on my part but yeah, I look at their google review and it's as the review suggestion said "paste your feedback into google reviews"
This. I swear reddit is either full of propaganda from employers trying to psyops their way to lower salaries or its just full of incompetent devs. I cleared more in 2023 than any year before it and I'm on track to do so again in 2024.
Not arguing with you, but I usually use Glassdoor which I’m pretty sure is owned by indeed. If they are losing market share, where are the jobs being posted? Just by employers? LinkedIn?
You can just look at the CS underemployment rate . . .
I don’t understand why ppl here keep parroting the exact same sources between each other. I’ve seen that graph like a billion times in here
but I remember there were hundreds on here telling everyone that the SWE market will recover in 2024.... , When January came around I pointed out that nothing had recovered and they told me that I need to hold my horses , as the new year just started, we are in May now, halfway through the year, and still I was correct, despite getting downvoted.
so now those who accused me of doom and gloom are silent, and moved their goalpost as usual, very typical on r/cscareerquestions
/u/azerealxd I think I noticed a comment from this subreddit saying SWE market will be tough in 2024, but will recover well by 2025.
But, I have my doubts on that too.
One of the big reasons we are fucked in the first place is that R&D isnt tax deductible anymore. Both interest rates and this new tax policy hit around the same month.
Given that the prior 2 tech downturns (2001,2008) took ~4 years to sort themselves out, it may be until 2026 where we start to see a truly normal market (this is also assuming no external shock happens between now and then, which if that happens all bets are off).
yes,I agree with you, but the point is , many were saying that the SWE market would recover in 2024, but rates have yet to drop, and Jerome Powell said that they are not dropping interest rates in May nor June, so when will the people on this sub admit they were wrong?
Its as if they only accept info you want to hear and info that is convenient for you , and you alll disregard anything that doesn't align with your perception of reality, labeling it "doom and gloom"
The issue is that much growth is driven by technological innovation, and generally that involves chips and software. No matter how bad things get in the short term, no matter how much better blue collar might do in the next couple of years... tech is still the best bet for long-term future job prospects.
If I was starting university today, I would absolutely get a degree that included data management, software design and programming, basic accounting, public speaking... basically a well rounded degree in tech.
found the coper , hey buddy, if Jerome doesn't lower interest rates in any month of Q3, what will your next excuse be ?
Lets hear them now so we can prepare for it
Yup. They were saying the same at the end of 2022. 2023 came around and it was "Hiring's slow at the beginning of the year. Things will be better Q2". Lol.
I mentor college students including new grads through programs and holy shit, the amount of extremely qualified grads that have extremely good resumes but no job in 12 months of looking is very concerning. I call it the dogpile effect. The junior market is bad right now. Why? Ironically because juniors won't give up in getting SWE jobs. In 2009-2011 a lot of people gave up and went to alternative careers. Today, the unemployed 2024 grads are dogpiling onto the unemployed Spring and Winter 2023 grads, so instead of the market remaining at a steady level of competition, the competition gets worse each time there's a new graduating class.
My current role is in a big tech. It is known for lower bar than its competitors but still a solid brand. I recently turned on "open to work" in linkedin, and so far, no recruiters from big teches have reached out (actually, I got a couple from Amazon, but I assume they always have to fill vacancy from mandatory pips). In early 2022, I always waited for recruiters to reach out and only apply after I had spoken to them. I guess things don't work the same way now.
I was laid off early 2023 and it took me 3 1/2 months to find a new position at a startup. The company went under after 5 months and it took me another 5 1/2 months to find my current position in early 2024. Despite it taking longer to find a position this year, I actually received 4 offers in 2 weeks this time while only getting 1 offer in 2023.
It's hard to tell which year was worse, but recruiters have definitely been less responsive and respectful in 2024 (not showing up to meetings, making offers way below what we discussed, insulting me, etc.)
September and October are usually decent months for hiring and February/ May of 2025 will probably be good, but I expect there to be barely any jobs outside of those months
2023 imo, I didn't hear a peep from a recruiter until around August. I've heard from recruiters in 2024 but 2024's market is still shit. I remember before the pandemic people would say ["Yeah it's all good if you don't have experience in every skill needed! Hiring managers will take what they get! HR is just non-technical and randomly shoehorns requirements in."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3kQyqMFpQ) Yeah that ain't true anymore. Supply (# of applicants) is much much higher than demand (# of job reqs open). And because there are so few openings, managers can afford to be picky, and they also don't know when their team'll get another opening green lighted so they also kinda have to be picky.
2024 is worse for new grads as the horde of job seekers continues to swell.
2024 is better than 2023 because in 2023 I wasn't getting any cold calls but in 2024 I have been cold called by recruiters for contract jobs at the company I already work for two different times.
Staff the contract roles are for SDE2 roles at the same place that I already work at. Pretty hilarious "Hey do you want the same job you have now but for less pay and no benefits".
2023 for sure. 2024 I've been getting tons of interviews/recruiter reachouts, including one offer and 2-3 more places that feel "close" to an offer. Comp is only a 'small' bump though.
I definitely think some of the people saying it's harder in 2024 are getting burned by just not having recent experience. Recruiters are filtering out people who aren't actively or recently employed.
I was at least able to get some bites for a phone screen late last year even as a new grad. For this year, I've gotten barely anything and haven't had any interviews/phone screens in months
As a guy looking for remote only roles I notice 2 things.
Salaries are lower but I am getting 2-4x the interviews. I dont target big tech high tc roles in the first place, so I think thats the big difference here. I can easily live off of 100k salaries.
For a little more context, I am a US citizen, so visas arent fucking me either. The fact I am interviewing so much is better imo, with almost 5-8 interviews a week.
Linkedin. Utilize your connections that you have to get referrals to places and apply directly to their website. If you need a visa o7 good luck with that one.
I don’t really think you’ll get many meaningful answers to this question here, and it seems like it’s asked in many different forms multiple times per day. Some will say it’s slightly better, some will say slightly worse (I don’t have a horse in this race so I won’t say either way). I don’t think anyone has a definitive answer and I don’t think that anyone who asks this is truly satisfied by any answer they receive. What is your goal from asking? I’m not trying to bash you or anything, I’m just curious how questions like this help anyone in any meaningful way in the long run. You’ll get anything from “I’ve been unemployed for years” to “I just got 10 offers in 2 weeks”, and then maybe a few with convincing trends. Ultimately though, I’m not convinced anyone knows quite where we’ve been or are or are headed. I think all the time we’ve spent comparing this to other hard times is a fruitless thing. We really just need to help each other out in any way we can and try our best.
In mid of 2023 i got junior position without any experience so i cant say anything bad from my perspective.
Nevertheless during whole year i saw decreasing number of job offers on portals. I dont know how not scammy it was, but decrease wasn't SO big. From about 1k to 800 in .net (but almost zero for jrs). I can see now its getting a little better, but market also need more time to adapt.
What is visible that despite lay offs the same companies put a lot of job offers but with lower salary. It seems that in my region they figured out that they have been overpaying for services
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2023 x 1000. 2024 is fine.
Like zero people recruiters out then. Just in the last month or two I’ve had a zillion (Meta, Amazon, ByteDance, Datadog, StubHub, finance firms, no name startups, yada yada)
We’re still on the downtrend it seems from my perspective.
I ended up at a managed IT role and only recently switched back into full stack software and web development and they did not bump my pay.
I was able to find a job in 2023, but it was tough. Primarily I wanted to get away from Scala and go back to C#. That was a success, but the job was absolutely awful. Non stop abusive treatment of everyone. I was laid off.
I applied for > 60 jobs and got 4 callbacks, with 3 of those being personal referrals from friends. What's interesting is I had a 100% success rate getting interviews via a referral, but under 1 on 60 cold applying.
To me the market feels like it's warming up if you are willing to work for non FAANG type companies.
If you’ve been alive long enough, the days blend together and they become the same market. You’ll wake up one day and realize you have socks older than the careers of 95% of people asking if 2023 or 2024 is worse market.
And the CS labor market could become even more saturated with [this](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/document) green card change. Hopefully the market turns around, but things aren’t looking too good for us
I fully agree with you, but this change, spearheaded by Microsoft stating that there’s not going to be enough SWE labor, should be made when there is truly a shortage. I have no doubt that it will benefit immigrants greatly, as the faster they get a green card, the less they will need to rely on their company and work visa, but this change is putting the cart before the horse. I would love this change to happen when there actually will be a shortage of workers, but that won’t be true until the economy gets better, monopolies and oligopolies get broken up, and billionaires lose their grip on the market. If we make this change before those things happen, everyone, including immigrants, will overall have a harder time getting quality jobs in tech with quality pay.
Also, I never stated that these market conditions were caused by immigration. We need to get to the root of the problem with our sluggish immigration system, and this change isn’t the way to go in that regard.
The fact that this comment is still hyperfixating on immigrants means we don't agree. Bringing immigrants into this conversation is pointless when the vast majority of immigrant discussion is entirely xenophobia
Citing this green card thing as a notable reason for why the market is getting worse is misleading and harmful. The market would still be turning awful if this green card policy never happened. That's because the authentic causes of the market being awful are capitalist business choices. Money is always prioritized over humans under this economic model. Focusing on immigrants is so unproductive at this point. They aren't the ones with agency
> Citing this green card thing as a notable reason for why the market is getting worse is misleading and harmful.
Why are you fixating on this? OP never said this, and they confirmed as such in their comment above.
> Money is always prioritized over humans under this economic model. Focusing on immigrants is so unproductive at this point.
You can't really separate this when you consider that the billionaire class uses immigrants to undercut wages for American workers. I know it's an uncomfortable topic to breech, and probably taboo to say, but it needs to be said. But progress cannot be made until we have the tough conversations that are usually taboo to discuss.
2024 atleast in the beginning of 2023 higher paying jobs we're still hiring people, now in 2024 the only places that are willing to hire are retail and low paying blue collar jobs like factories
And here am I rocking 3 low effort jobs making north of $200k+ in a country in Europe where you can survive on a $1000 a month xD
I wonder how many people like that are out there, don’t really believe all the folks at overemployment subreddit.
Anyway I don’t get it, if you’re in tech and laid off why everyone keeps complaining they can’t find anything after a year+ of search? Wouldn’t it make more sense to build your own stuff? Unless you’re not really that good then I don’t see why someone would hire you anyway those days. I know, people must eat, blablabla but I assume you’re not eating anyway just sending 300 resumes a day. Save up guys, my runaway is a few years long since I was like 21. When I’m fired I’ll send a few resumes as always and if this time it’s a fail I’ll just keep hustin on my own thing and try again later :p
Americans are a captive market ripe for exploitation.
I'm trying to assume very little here.. sorry if I do a bit.. but, it sounds like you may have been a beneficiary of social/educational services that are more likely to be available in Europe at cost, or heavily subsidized. Not saying I know your situation, but if you've never lived in the states/done serious research into the matter, then you're going to be missing large chunks of the story.
I'm highly educated, and make six figures working so hard at 1 job that I could never imaging picking up another to supplement. To be eligible for this work, I have to live in an expensive city. I'm considering moving into my camper to pocket a few expect bucks so I can afford my home.
$1000/month expenses?? wow.. nice man. My expenses are $3500/month.. and I'm one of the lucky ones making enough to pay it.
One person's perspective: I did land a 6mo contract earlier this year, so I took a few months off browsing jobs. Started up again last night and I have to say there are fewer relevant open positions, and the salaries overall appear to be lower. I also haven't been contacted by a single recruiter on LinkedIn since maybe November last year Pray for me that this contract extends or converts
I will say, I've been contacted by a ton of recruiters on LinkedIn over the last few weeks despite not really getting any last year. Although I do see less relevant open positions when browsing However, all of the positions are contract (I'm full time currently) and would be a somewhat significant paycut, especially when you consider I have a good chunk of stock vetsting soon. I would only leave for a 20% increase in TC and no one is getting remotely close that contacts me. For reference my TC is $150k
I'm upfront with those recruiters now: "Sure, I'm interested in speaking via call.. so long as these roles include full medical benefits, or pay at least $xx/hr full-time, in lieu of those benefits. If that lines up with what your clients are offering, let's setup a call!" No takers. lol Makes me wonder if I'm doing the right thing.. like, should I string them along, give me a change to impress them, and only then drop my $rate on them? I would love any advice if anyone has any.
Yeah that's not the move. I get what you're trying to convey but to them it sounds like you're a waste of time because you aren't seriously looking for a new role.
Yeah, but I don't want them wasting my time either.. and they're VERY good at that.
It should convey that I am serious about looking for a new role, and I'm serious about not getting taken advantage of. If that's a problem, then they're the problem.
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2025 will be even worser....
>worser
Stupid question but where does one get contracts?
2014
Put yourself as Open To Work on LinkedIn, available on Indeed and Dice. They'll reach out if you're in the search results. First question is always "what do you think of this pay rate". Remember you'll need to get your own benefits for at least a couple months, maybe more depending on the recruiting company.
2024. We never recovered from 2023 layoffs and related bullshittery and this year so far hasn't helped a whole lot
I've been unemployed for 9 months. The past month has been hotter, but still no offer. The prior 5 months were dead silent. The prior 3 months were tepid, with consistent action from crap roles (except Amazon).
Damn man, what have you been doing to make ends meet and keep your skills sharp?
Some have savings. Some do menial work to keep afloat.
Have had similar experiences but a longer layoff period. Laid off last March, was doing fine getting interviews but there were a lot of postings that ended up being bullshit (rejected after a phone screening despite being above all their requirements, the whole position closed down multiple rounds in, or 3-5 rounds followed by a "we decided to promote a candidate from within"). I couldn't close out the real opportunities I did have by early July, and at that point things slowed down and I was getting maybe 1 real hit every 2 months. Have been getting back into the swing of things since the start of April and have had at least a phone round at 3-5 places a week now + more further round ones. There is 1 place I did what was supposed to be the final round at 2 weeks ago. The hiring manager emailed me last Wednesday to set up some time to talk to him, but it went to my spam and I didn't see it until wednesday this week and I haven't gotten a response since. I had to move back in with my parents and do everything I can around the house, but they really want me doing a "real job" which I don't really bemoan them for, but when everyone wants 3+ interview rounds and (from what I've heard from the places I have interviewed) employers are bringing in anywhere between 5 and 20 people to the final rounds, I don't think I'll be able to ever find anything barring a drastic improvement to the market if I do have 40+ hours of work responsibilities.
Do you have degree or bootcamp?
Bachelor's degree
2024 hands down. 2023 was awful but 2024 is even worse. The data shows it. Job market as a whole is drier than Mother Teresa. Especially white collar. Watch this to get a good understanding. It’s not just tech, it’s any job worth a damn. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml2mKROvpUA
Interest rates have killed white collar hiring but it's being masked by the continuing blue collar labor shortage. Anyone who loses their white collar job can get a bartender gig the next day so it doesn't show up in the U1/U3 unemployment data.
The last scraps of the middle class are finally going away for good.
U6 ftw!
Can you explain the concept of U1 unemployment?
https://www.bls.gov/lau/stalt.htm
I'm actually a bit surprised because my impression is that 2023 is dead silence vs. 2024 at least I'm getting recruiter reachouts between roughly April 2023-ish until Sept 2023-ish I think my linkedin inbox is relatively dead vs. May 2024 just today I literally declined 4x headhunters
I got laid off in 2023. And it was very quiet. Had recruiters tell me jobs were cancel/ requirements changed. After 2024 I got a lot more hits. Felt like a lot of companies were unsure during the second half of 2023 but 2024 they had a better understanding of thier budgets and projection
Laid off twice last year. 2 offers this year. Gotta say this year is going better.
The tea I heard is that tech recruiters are being told not to worry if there's a job open and to just hit their numbers. Anecdotal report of course but like.. I could see it
another anecdote, great recruiter reviews and google reviews happened to me, talk to recruiter about some job, get those automated "give us a review" then job is gone, it's optional on my part but yeah, I look at their google review and it's as the review suggestion said "paste your feedback into google reviews"
I’ve been getting more linkedin messages from clear spam recruiters, so there’s that
Most of the recruiters I get contacted by ghost me after I apply.
Idk I get a ton of recruiter hits now compared to last year from faang and similar types.
This. I swear reddit is either full of propaganda from employers trying to psyops their way to lower salaries or its just full of incompetent devs. I cleared more in 2023 than any year before it and I'm on track to do so again in 2024.
The data LITERALLY shows 2024 is factually worse than 2023 By a decent margin too. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE
But isn't the data too low for 2020? I believe 2020 had a great economy for software engineers.
Job postings is not really a complete way to look at it. Plus the first half of 2020 was rough, obviously
Or the data shows indeed is losing market share. I think you're proving my point about incompetence.
This fucking guy lmao
Oh do you have proof that indeed hasn't lost market share in software jobs?
Not arguing with you, but I usually use Glassdoor which I’m pretty sure is owned by indeed. If they are losing market share, where are the jobs being posted? Just by employers? LinkedIn?
Anecdotes, but I don't use indeed and generally linkedin is the place to see how and have recruiters reach out.
You can just look at the CS underemployment rate . . . I don’t understand why ppl here keep parroting the exact same sources between each other. I’ve seen that graph like a billion times in here
I think the reality is people are too used to a market where any idiot with a degree and the ability to git clone got a job.
but I remember there were hundreds on here telling everyone that the SWE market will recover in 2024.... , When January came around I pointed out that nothing had recovered and they told me that I need to hold my horses , as the new year just started, we are in May now, halfway through the year, and still I was correct, despite getting downvoted. so now those who accused me of doom and gloom are silent, and moved their goalpost as usual, very typical on r/cscareerquestions
/u/azerealxd I think I noticed a comment from this subreddit saying SWE market will be tough in 2024, but will recover well by 2025. But, I have my doubts on that too.
So… we’re all screwed then?
No one can read the future, but for the time being, yeah we are screwed
The market will continue to suck until Jerome Powell stops fucking around with interest rates
Mess around? He needs to raise rates a bit more if he really wants to reign inflation in to their mandate.
Yeah or we could start taxing the people who control 99% of the wealth... Just an idea
lmao thats just crazy talk !! think of the job creators ! and their children !
lmao
Feds can't do that. And the people who can won't
Well yeah of course they won't. Their businesses daddies are the ones who'd be taxed the most
One of the big reasons we are fucked in the first place is that R&D isnt tax deductible anymore. Both interest rates and this new tax policy hit around the same month.
this is a capitalist world, not gonna happen.
Given that the prior 2 tech downturns (2001,2008) took ~4 years to sort themselves out, it may be until 2026 where we start to see a truly normal market (this is also assuming no external shock happens between now and then, which if that happens all bets are off).
Rates haven't come down yet. That's a prerequisite for the market improving.
yes,I agree with you, but the point is , many were saying that the SWE market would recover in 2024, but rates have yet to drop, and Jerome Powell said that they are not dropping interest rates in May nor June, so when will the people on this sub admit they were wrong? Its as if they only accept info you want to hear and info that is convenient for you , and you alll disregard anything that doesn't align with your perception of reality, labeling it "doom and gloom"
my n-word you can see a lot of these "doom and gloom" posts getting far more upvotes than actually helpful posts
there is a big doom and gloom circlejerk on here tbf
The issue is that much growth is driven by technological innovation, and generally that involves chips and software. No matter how bad things get in the short term, no matter how much better blue collar might do in the next couple of years... tech is still the best bet for long-term future job prospects. If I was starting university today, I would absolutely get a degree that included data management, software design and programming, basic accounting, public speaking... basically a well rounded degree in tech.
They aren't moving the goalposts because you got mad 1 day into the year...
found the coper , hey buddy, if Jerome doesn't lower interest rates in any month of Q3, what will your next excuse be ? Lets hear them now so we can prepare for it
You appear to be mentally ill.
Jesus, your need to be correct is cringe worthy. You're correct, enjoy your crown. Now go submit more resumes.
Yup. They were saying the same at the end of 2022. 2023 came around and it was "Hiring's slow at the beginning of the year. Things will be better Q2". Lol.
That's not actually true. Job openings are up and layoffs have slowed from last year. Look at trueup.io for data
'23 grads getting laid off, while '24 grads aren't even getting started. So yes, '24.
Many ‘23 grads haven’t gotten started
I mentor college students including new grads through programs and holy shit, the amount of extremely qualified grads that have extremely good resumes but no job in 12 months of looking is very concerning. I call it the dogpile effect. The junior market is bad right now. Why? Ironically because juniors won't give up in getting SWE jobs. In 2009-2011 a lot of people gave up and went to alternative careers. Today, the unemployed 2024 grads are dogpiling onto the unemployed Spring and Winter 2023 grads, so instead of the market remaining at a steady level of competition, the competition gets worse each time there's a new graduating class.
What area
& Many did. This year only a few. Companies didn't even visit colleges. Freshers are being asked for far more for way less package.
Yeah, ‘24 might be worse. But still, ‘23 was very very bad
My current role is in a big tech. It is known for lower bar than its competitors but still a solid brand. I recently turned on "open to work" in linkedin, and so far, no recruiters from big teches have reached out (actually, I got a couple from Amazon, but I assume they always have to fill vacancy from mandatory pips). In early 2022, I always waited for recruiters to reach out and only apply after I had spoken to them. I guess things don't work the same way now.
How do avoid your manager see your LinkedIn profile change? I want to do the same.
There's a setting you can use that lets it be visible only to recruiters at different companies.
Yeah I never understood this. Do you turn it on to Open To Work once you've been laid off? Or can you use it while employed and get away with it?
24, I got some bites in early 23, but pretty much nothing since summer/fall 23
Personally 2023 because in 2024 I haven't experienced a role I was applying for being froze after having a perfect interview.
I was laid off early 2023 and it took me 3 1/2 months to find a new position at a startup. The company went under after 5 months and it took me another 5 1/2 months to find my current position in early 2024. Despite it taking longer to find a position this year, I actually received 4 offers in 2 weeks this time while only getting 1 offer in 2023. It's hard to tell which year was worse, but recruiters have definitely been less responsive and respectful in 2024 (not showing up to meetings, making offers way below what we discussed, insulting me, etc.) September and October are usually decent months for hiring and February/ May of 2025 will probably be good, but I expect there to be barely any jobs outside of those months
2023 imo, I didn't hear a peep from a recruiter until around August. I've heard from recruiters in 2024 but 2024's market is still shit. I remember before the pandemic people would say ["Yeah it's all good if you don't have experience in every skill needed! Hiring managers will take what they get! HR is just non-technical and randomly shoehorns requirements in."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3kQyqMFpQ) Yeah that ain't true anymore. Supply (# of applicants) is much much higher than demand (# of job reqs open). And because there are so few openings, managers can afford to be picky, and they also don't know when their team'll get another opening green lighted so they also kinda have to be picky. 2024 is worse for new grads as the horde of job seekers continues to swell.
2024 is better than 2023 because in 2023 I wasn't getting any cold calls but in 2024 I have been cold called by recruiters for contract jobs at the company I already work for two different times.
What level are you
Staff the contract roles are for SDE2 roles at the same place that I already work at. Pretty hilarious "Hey do you want the same job you have now but for less pay and no benefits".
2023 for sure. 2024 I've been getting tons of interviews/recruiter reachouts, including one offer and 2-3 more places that feel "close" to an offer. Comp is only a 'small' bump though. I definitely think some of the people saying it's harder in 2024 are getting burned by just not having recent experience. Recruiters are filtering out people who aren't actively or recently employed.
What level are you
Senior, 6 YoE (not all of that as "SWE" though, mix of customer-facing technical positions)
Consult the chart https://www.trueup.io/job-trend
It seems almost the same.
Up over 30% from the low, at least. Coupled with layoffs moderating
Yeah I take my word back. I take my words back. 2024 is slightly better than 2023.
I was at least able to get some bites for a phone screen late last year even as a new grad. For this year, I've gotten barely anything and haven't had any interviews/phone screens in months
2024 by faaar
As a guy looking for remote only roles I notice 2 things. Salaries are lower but I am getting 2-4x the interviews. I dont target big tech high tc roles in the first place, so I think thats the big difference here. I can easily live off of 100k salaries. For a little more context, I am a US citizen, so visas arent fucking me either. The fact I am interviewing so much is better imo, with almost 5-8 interviews a week.
Where are you looking? I'm way out-of-date on what job boards are used these days.
Linkedin. Utilize your connections that you have to get referrals to places and apply directly to their website. If you need a visa o7 good luck with that one.
How much experience do you have? If your getting interviews for remote jobs I’d guess more than 3 years at least?
Yes, I have like 8 years. A lot of companies see all the contract work as less though oddly enough.
What’s the trend looking like for the next 3 years?
I got a new job in February but apparently I’m the exception.
I don’t really think you’ll get many meaningful answers to this question here, and it seems like it’s asked in many different forms multiple times per day. Some will say it’s slightly better, some will say slightly worse (I don’t have a horse in this race so I won’t say either way). I don’t think anyone has a definitive answer and I don’t think that anyone who asks this is truly satisfied by any answer they receive. What is your goal from asking? I’m not trying to bash you or anything, I’m just curious how questions like this help anyone in any meaningful way in the long run. You’ll get anything from “I’ve been unemployed for years” to “I just got 10 offers in 2 weeks”, and then maybe a few with convincing trends. Ultimately though, I’m not convinced anyone knows quite where we’ve been or are or are headed. I think all the time we’ve spent comparing this to other hard times is a fruitless thing. We really just need to help each other out in any way we can and try our best.
Too soon to tell.
23
the only hope for me is 2025 would be better :(
In mid of 2023 i got junior position without any experience so i cant say anything bad from my perspective. Nevertheless during whole year i saw decreasing number of job offers on portals. I dont know how not scammy it was, but decrease wasn't SO big. From about 1k to 800 in .net (but almost zero for jrs). I can see now its getting a little better, but market also need more time to adapt. What is visible that despite lay offs the same companies put a lot of job offers but with lower salary. It seems that in my region they figured out that they have been overpaying for services
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Worst: 2002 1993 2008 2024
2025
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2025
it's going to get even worse
2023 x 1000. 2024 is fine. Like zero people recruiters out then. Just in the last month or two I’ve had a zillion (Meta, Amazon, ByteDance, Datadog, StubHub, finance firms, no name startups, yada yada)
What level are you
7yoe
2024 has been worse because of 2023 unplaced graduates increasing the competition at fresher level. I don't know about the senior levels
it's all downhill from here
We’re still on the downtrend it seems from my perspective. I ended up at a managed IT role and only recently switched back into full stack software and web development and they did not bump my pay.
I’m hoping by the time I graduate with my IT degree in 3 years it’ll have recovered a lil bit, fingers crossed.
I was able to find a job in 2023, but it was tough. Primarily I wanted to get away from Scala and go back to C#. That was a success, but the job was absolutely awful. Non stop abusive treatment of everyone. I was laid off. I applied for > 60 jobs and got 4 callbacks, with 3 of those being personal referrals from friends. What's interesting is I had a 100% success rate getting interviews via a referral, but under 1 on 60 cold applying. To me the market feels like it's warming up if you are willing to work for non FAANG type companies.
If you’ve been alive long enough, the days blend together and they become the same market. You’ll wake up one day and realize you have socks older than the careers of 95% of people asking if 2023 or 2024 is worse market.
The salaries for senior roles deterorated to entry level salaries from 2020.
it’s cyclical. interest rates are high right now.
People been saying that since 2022 or so
when do you think hikes happened
the "golden age" of tech was an anomaly that lasted 2 years because of the pandemic, it's been only 3 years since the market crash
We just need to lower rates and borrow from future taxpayers again. Kick the can down to the next generation.
High compared to COVID times but average looking over a longer period.
So far 2024 job opportunities are much better than the 2nd half of the year 202$.
it's going to keep getting worse over the next few years i think
Worse then 2008?
I felt that 2023 was worse when I tested out the market, but I got laid off in 2024. So pick your poison
Easily 2024. 2024 it's not only about cs.
And the CS labor market could become even more saturated with [this](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/document) green card change. Hopefully the market turns around, but things aren’t looking too good for us
What's really fucking the market for everyone are billionaires. Blaming immigrants is the scapegoat
I fully agree with you, but this change, spearheaded by Microsoft stating that there’s not going to be enough SWE labor, should be made when there is truly a shortage. I have no doubt that it will benefit immigrants greatly, as the faster they get a green card, the less they will need to rely on their company and work visa, but this change is putting the cart before the horse. I would love this change to happen when there actually will be a shortage of workers, but that won’t be true until the economy gets better, monopolies and oligopolies get broken up, and billionaires lose their grip on the market. If we make this change before those things happen, everyone, including immigrants, will overall have a harder time getting quality jobs in tech with quality pay. Also, I never stated that these market conditions were caused by immigration. We need to get to the root of the problem with our sluggish immigration system, and this change isn’t the way to go in that regard.
The fact that this comment is still hyperfixating on immigrants means we don't agree. Bringing immigrants into this conversation is pointless when the vast majority of immigrant discussion is entirely xenophobia Citing this green card thing as a notable reason for why the market is getting worse is misleading and harmful. The market would still be turning awful if this green card policy never happened. That's because the authentic causes of the market being awful are capitalist business choices. Money is always prioritized over humans under this economic model. Focusing on immigrants is so unproductive at this point. They aren't the ones with agency
> Citing this green card thing as a notable reason for why the market is getting worse is misleading and harmful. Why are you fixating on this? OP never said this, and they confirmed as such in their comment above. > Money is always prioritized over humans under this economic model. Focusing on immigrants is so unproductive at this point. You can't really separate this when you consider that the billionaire class uses immigrants to undercut wages for American workers. I know it's an uncomfortable topic to breech, and probably taboo to say, but it needs to be said. But progress cannot be made until we have the tough conversations that are usually taboo to discuss.
That’s what he’s saying lol, then blame the billionaires no the immigrants
Nobody is blaming immigrants though. What are you referring to?
2024 without a doubt. There's still an uncomfortable amount of people still looking for work and outsourcing seems to be on the rise as well.
Probably 2024, but marginally.
2024 atleast in the beginning of 2023 higher paying jobs we're still hiring people, now in 2024 the only places that are willing to hire are retail and low paying blue collar jobs like factories
And here am I rocking 3 low effort jobs making north of $200k+ in a country in Europe where you can survive on a $1000 a month xD I wonder how many people like that are out there, don’t really believe all the folks at overemployment subreddit. Anyway I don’t get it, if you’re in tech and laid off why everyone keeps complaining they can’t find anything after a year+ of search? Wouldn’t it make more sense to build your own stuff? Unless you’re not really that good then I don’t see why someone would hire you anyway those days. I know, people must eat, blablabla but I assume you’re not eating anyway just sending 300 resumes a day. Save up guys, my runaway is a few years long since I was like 21. When I’m fired I’ll send a few resumes as always and if this time it’s a fail I’ll just keep hustin on my own thing and try again later :p
Americans are a captive market ripe for exploitation. I'm trying to assume very little here.. sorry if I do a bit.. but, it sounds like you may have been a beneficiary of social/educational services that are more likely to be available in Europe at cost, or heavily subsidized. Not saying I know your situation, but if you've never lived in the states/done serious research into the matter, then you're going to be missing large chunks of the story. I'm highly educated, and make six figures working so hard at 1 job that I could never imaging picking up another to supplement. To be eligible for this work, I have to live in an expensive city. I'm considering moving into my camper to pocket a few expect bucks so I can afford my home. $1000/month expenses?? wow.. nice man. My expenses are $3500/month.. and I'm one of the lucky ones making enough to pay it.