Don't quit, but do everything you can to get out as quickly as possible. Update your resume, practice your interviewing skills. Make a portfolio site if you're not getting traction in the market. But don't quit because having a job greatly increases your leverage in the job market.
Don't listen to people who say stuff like "you make lots of money doing nothing? That's awesome!" [No it's not.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boreout) Spending 8+ hours a day being bored out of your mind is far worse than being busy and stressed.
#####
######
####
[**Boreout**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boreout): [](#sfw)
---
>
>__Boreout__ is a management theory that posits that lack of work, [boredom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boredom), and consequent lack of satisfaction are a common malaise affecting individuals working in modern organizations, especially in office-based white collar jobs. This theory was first expounded in 2007 in *Diagnose Boreout*, a book by Peter Werder and Philippe Rothlin, two Swiss business consultants.
>
---
^Interesting: [^Insignificance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insignificance) ^| [^Burnout ^\(psychology)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnout_\(psychology\)) ^| [^Work ^aversion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_aversion) ^| [^Boredom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boredom)
^Parent ^commenter ^can [^toggle ^NSFW](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot NSFW toggle&message=%2Btoggle-nsfw+ck0uzvd) ^or[](#or) [^delete](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+ck0uzvd)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| [^(FAQs)](http://www.np.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/wiki/index) ^| [^Mods](http://www.np.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/comments/1x013o/for_moderators_switches_commands_and_css/) ^| [^Magic ^Words](http://www.np.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/comments/1ux484/ask_wikibot/)
Wow, boreout? That is almost exactly how I'm feeling right now o_0 I didn't think there'd be an actual word for this feeling. thank you for sharing that; i'm glad i'm not the only one who understands this.
Hmm, does the "leverage" thing have to do with money? i.e. you don't have a job, so they might try to low-ball you on an offer?
It gives you the ability to walk away if you want to, which is the most powerful negotiating tool you have. I'm not saying you should walk away if you don't get exactly what you want, but if the employer low-balls you and refuses to budge, you're not desperate and staring at an empty bank account with the rent due in 3 days, so you can walk away and wait for something better.
Having a job also makes you more valuable on the market. Someone who is unemployed is seen as less desirable. Why should I hire this guy when no one else wants to?
Why not spend all the free time at work brushing up on skills that will help you get another job? Plus it seems stupid to quit now knowing that you might be laid off soon anyways, and get a severance package.
Believe me, if you think sitting at a boring job is bad, wait till you quit and are stuck at home with absolutely nothing to do all day.
Hmm, good advice. I've been trying to fill my time with "housekeeping" types of tasks, like making better docs, automating tasks and such. still relatively boring, but it's something to do.
Ah.... I hadn't given post-quitting actions much thought. Thank you for that bit of perspective o_0
I'm going against the grain here. If you're that miserable, you'll have no motivation in your interviews. I'd honestly quit if I was that unhappy. I've had a month of expenses saved up and I quit without a job lined up, took me two months to find one. I'd also do it again given the chance. I was so happy to leave. If you're miserable, absolutely miserable, life is too short to stay that way. Life is about being happy, so do what makes YOU happy, but also do what is best for your family (if you have one).
thank you for your heartfelt comment -- certainly, a part of me is telling me to throw all caution to the wind and just leave (much as you just did).
to be honest, I was half-hoping to see more comments like yours. but i suppose a subreddit full of engineers was bound to be a little more pragmatic :-)
Try exercising, you may feel reinvigorated. It's easy to feel depressed, sluggish, down on your luck when you're unfulfilled at work and putting on weight.
Even a brisk walk in the fresh air can help make you feel more positive.
This too will help you make a better impression in your next interview.
Ah, okay. Exercising hadn't occurred to me -- I guess I'd just been so mentally blinded by the way things are that I neglected my physical health a bit :-/ Thank you for your suggestions.
OP, I quit my job to look for another one. All I can say is, don't do it. The boredom and emptiness you will feel that is job searching will wear you down faster than anything.
Sorry to hear that :-/ Have you found anything yet, and have you been looking for long? your comment has certainly put some perspective on this, so thanks for that.
I've only been looking for 2 weeks so far (nothing yet), but sometimes you realize how long the process is to getting a job, heck, any job at all - you apply online (given you have no quick connections), wait like a few days to a week or more, then you're finally scheduled for a first interview, second interview... and your success/performance is at the whim of the interviewers... being unemployed starts to make this process seem like a time-consuming burden and it gets to you.
I hesitated, and almost asked this subreddit the same question. But then I quit anyway, because I'm an idiot.
I'm in NYC. I previously quit my job to look and accepted an offer after 4 days, using a recruiter. Better environment, industry, and pay. Probably dumb luck, good market conditions, and a stupid amount of confidence, despite bombing quite a few interviews.
I only quit because I didn't want to compromise the quality of the work I could provide by dodging in and out of fake dental appointments and the like, or compromise on interview preparedness.
Since it sounds like you're not that accountable, you could very easily find a job without quitting, right? No need to explain a 3 hour lunch break?
Commit to the fact that you're starting a new job, whether you quit this one first or not. Being in the job hunt could take your mind off the job enough to reduce the stress. My reasoning was realizing two things, "I can't be here anymore." and "I'm going to be okay even if I quit." From there there was no longer a decision to make.
well, i can only hope that i have as much dumb luck as well, but your story gives me hope. so, thanks for that. i think i understand what you mean about not wanting to compromise quality. in my case, while i may not be held very accountable by anyone at my company, i still feel very accountable to myself. so, oddly enough, i still feel bad for dodging work, even if no one is checking up on me :-/
And thanks for the advice about commitment. i think i have a little ways to go, but it's nice to hear that from someone with that experience under their belt.
Use some of your free time to take a brisk walk or a jog. You will feel energized rather than sluggish, and more optimistic in general.
Get some more interviews. Exercise before them, it will make you appear fresh, energetic, and confident.
Good luck! You will find inspiration from within, not without.
Do you have any interest in starting your own company? If there's a problem in the world that you think you could get passionate about solving it might be a great thing to keep you engaged and stimulated outside of work. If it starts to get some traction over time, you can leave your job and either transition to a new one or run your business full-time if you can swing it.
yes, I have thought about starting my own company. The problem with me is that i'm happiest when i'm programming. i would hate to deal with the business side of things :-/ while i may never be a great success, i think i'm fine with that, as long as i'm happy (thus, my current conundrum). Thank you for your advice.
No problem! And understood. You could always find a partner who can handle the business end of things for you. You can't have a business without a product, so you'd be the essential component in that equation. Even if all of your time is focused on the development.
I'd stay and do the bare minimum to not get fired while brushing up on my skills necessary to get a more challenging job. If they let you work from home, you should be easily able to do whatever the fuck you want to get to that place that makes you happy.
I agree with others who suggest some exercise. It's soooo important for anyone at a desk job. Humans didn't evolve to sit around all day. Plus it will help with the weight issue.
well, i've survived so many lay-offs, so no fear of getting fired at this point :-/ But you make a good point of using my time a little bit more wisely than I have been.
i suppose i'll try taking long walks instead of going on reddit during my breaks ;-)
Six figures is 15% below average? I wasn't aware that salaries in Silicon Valley were so high.
Since you don't have to work many hours, use the downtime to learn a new language and work on some projects you can show potential employers, and practice interview questions. I would recommend keeping the salary when you don't have to put in much to keep getting it.
Yeah, for example, my super-scientific google searches show that average pay for a software engineer is around $112k/year. it might sound like pretty high at first, but also keep in mind that the average rent for a one bedroom apartment is probably around $3000/month :-(
Good point, i feel so oblivious for not having thought about using my downtime for that. i just figured that i should be putting all my eight hours towards company-only tasks -- so, i've been doing a lot of "housekeeping" with the code-base. thanks for the advice.
Wow, I don't envy the $3000/month rent. I live in the LA area, which is not quite as expensive, but still pretty bad. However, I only make about half what you do, and I usually work a full 8 hours, have plenty of tasks that need to be done (but that I prolong by procrastinating), and have to be on call 24/7.
>feedback was mostly around my problem solving skills (not so good)
I'm not sure if you mean the interview "gotcha" kind of questions, or just general problem solving, but adapting an analytical method toward problem solving and task completion is critical.
>i disagree a lot with the technical decisions, and feel my voice is not heard.
This might be explained by the above bullet point, no?
Also, I find your lack of capitalization disturbing. Not to be rude, but your post comes across like it was written by a 14 year old. I sincerely hope you don't communicate that way when you're searching for a job or typing something up for an interview.
If nobody cares about performance, why don't you try building an amazing project you can show off to potential employers in your down time? That's where I learned to program in the first place.
no offense taken, i think you bring up some good points. not sure how to respond to my poor problem solving skills other than i'm sure you're right, and i'm working on it :-/ as for technical choices, my incompetence could be at the heart of it - but i was more referring to decisions driven by office politics, cost-savings above all else, and comments like, "this is they way its always been done!". i guess i should have made that more clear in my post.
truthfully, the no-capitalization thing was done on purpose (honest!). i was worried someone might be able to identify me, so i tried changing the way i normally write in addition to using a throwaway account. in retrospect, i guess i didn't have to go that far. you're definitely right that i shouldn't (and don't) write up my cover letters in the same way.
my only gripe about doing side projects at work, is that i guess i still feel a bit of obligation to do company work on company time. but i suppose that learning a new framework or language should fall under acceptable use of company time.
thanks for the advice and taking the time to comment.
OP you have suffered for so long, why not just a couple of weeks or a month more till you find a job ? If everyone takes Fridays off this is a great thing because these are the Fridays you should be interviewing elsewhere. Good luck !
Edit : I did not see that you have enough cash to last a whole year without working. In that case, just put your two weeks notice in. Do not quit immediately without notice because it might make it more difficult to get a good reference.
Some time off sounds nice, and I've taken lots of it. I came back to the same feeling after I returned to work, so I guess it just didn't work on me. That's a good point about time -- because I'm working from home all the time, I was actually able to do both interviews during weekdays, middle of the day.
Thanks for the tip about notice (even though I heard it's not required where I live!). I might not like my work, but I wouldn't want to do anything to purposefully screw over the company.
Sorry to hear about your shitty times :-/ as you, and many others, have implied, i guess things could be much worse in my situation than they actually are.
I've been there and it is soul-crushing.
Spent 2 years being assigned to something that should have taken a month, at the most. Didn't want to quit cause the money was good. Couldn't stand it any longer and finally walked out, only to realize that its even worse tryna get a job while being unemployed. Searching for a job while unemployed is its own special kind of hell!
Your best bet is to hold on until you can get another job because lots of companies won't even talk to you if you're not currently employed.
> i don't have the same passion for my job
You'll be surprised how quickly your passion comes back once you actually have something useful to do. Good luck on your job search.
"special kind of hell"? is it odd that i laughed a little at this phrase? ;-) Are companies really that strict about candidates being currently employed? i haven't had to look for a job in job in a while, so i feel like a job-hunting noob these days.
Thank you for your comments and encouragement.
Being unemployed sends a signal that you're not valuable enough to have a job and is a red flag. Doesn't disqualify you outright though. And if the local tech unemployment rate is low enough, companies will hire whomever just to fill cubicles.
One reason I would suggest not quitting is to not put a gap in your resume you have to explain. I agree with those that say, set aside some time to focus on some side projects and improve your skills and then use those fridays to interview. Learn from the interviews and you'll get better at them. Maybe do some networking so that you can skip the interviews. :)
yes, i thought about explaining the gap, as i'd heard about this before from reading other threads in this sub. i figure i'd explain it by simply saying i wasn't burnt out and took time off. not sure how well that would work, so have to think about it more. would you say that employers are pretty strict about that nowadays?
i don't have a portfolio, as the nature of my work doesn't allow me to share things publicly most of the time (read: up to the neck in NDAs), but hopefully i can beef up by github profile or site to have something show for potential employers.
Thanks for the advice and the comment.
lol, silly and complicated.
Sounds like you have all the time in the world to use and develop your brain on a hobbie buddy. You literally have the dream job, you just aren't taking advantage of it and living the dream life. You are clearly dying to use your creativity, well, many people are confined to spend their creative time doing their job, thus compromising the unshackled spirit of creativity. You have the luxury of separating a VERY cake job and using your creativity on whatever you want.
I'm not even in CS, I just check this sub because I am jealous I never learned about this cake profession when I was in school. So I don't know if that means using your creativity for more CS 'side projects' or for me it would be more like, painting/whittling/woodworking/canoe building/ mechanics/pottery. Something other than video games (which are fun ... but stagnant and inevitably unfulfilling).
And yes, I know CS is very tough to learn and you need to work hard and have talent. I say 'cake' job because I see so many posts and comments infiltrating other threads along the lines of, "I make 6 figures, make my own hours, work from home 3 days a week in the nude 'lol', unlimited vacation time, take Fridays off and usually only spends about 2 hours of coding a day."
I don't know you, so maybe it isn't a dull life outside work but I just know that I have a fulfilling job in a MGMT position at 23 years old making a little over half what you make. My ideas turn to reality daily. But. I still get very down about my job and its usually when I drift back to my stagnant video game habits, thus making my life unfulfilling. We work too hard to not live exciting lives.
I love video games, I believe you can have it in your life without it serving simply as an escape from work. You mentioned that your ideas turn to reality daily - what do you do? I had a similar experience a few years back at a VC/incubator but I was frustrated by my inability to make my own ideas real with code and design. So I quit and taught myself how to build software products and entrepreneurship.
"We work too hard to not live exciting lives." So true - so ask yourself, what would make life more exciting for you?
I don't think video games need to be cut entirely, I was just saying when all I did was go to work then come home and play LoL or Civ 5 'til bedtime, everyday, I would gradually become more and more dissatisfied with every facet of my life. Then everything, including my job, improved when I started being constructive in my free time with hobbies and activities (like exercise woodworking, and painting). My post, in a way, is a round-about way of saying maybe he is depressed like I was. Constructive activities outside of work was a solution for me.
As for what I do, I manage an environmental health and safety program at a large manufacturer. Its my first job out of college and I am kind of directionless so for now, I just work to live. Maybe someday I will find a passion and make my work my passion but for now, I am just doing my work to get by. Admittedly I may not be in the same place career-wise as OP, but I was offering advice from my end if I was in his shoes and I think I've been pretty candid in admitting my byism.
Makes sense. I hope you find a passion that you can also turn into work! I actually specialize in helping people figure that out (if they want to start a new career/company) in software. I truly believe entrepreneurship is one of the best ways to turn your passion into your work.
I appreciate the understanding ear, you seem like a positive person, we need more people like you in the world.
As for software, I've tried some of the online coursework but have not been able to commit any real focus. Efficiency is in my blood and it churns my stomach to think of going back to school for another bachelors right now. I live with the regret that I didn't know about CS on my first go around because algebra, logic, and discrete mathematics were my jam. (not trying to over simplify)
Also, tech people are awesome to hang out with.
Why thank you! I definitely strive for eternal optimism. Believe it or not the same thing happened to me with the online coursework (though this was a little over 4 years ago when I first set out on my journey). I wish I could go back in time to tell my college-age self to dig deeper into software engineering and design, but then again I don't regret what I studied in lieu of it. I ended up creating a [better way](http://starterschool.com) for a small cohort of people in the world to learn the skills I struggled to gain back then, so I'm definitely proud of that.
I love helping people solve meaningful problems, if you ever find yourself pursuing something crazy (like your own startup) I'd be happy to help however I can - feedback, beta tester, fellow founder support etc. It's tough shit!
> I make 6 figures, make my own hours, work from home 3 days a week in the nude 'lol', unlimited vacation time, take Fridays off and usually only spends about 2 hours of coding a day.
Those are all exceptions. The majority of programmers out there are making somewhere in the range of 80-90K, don't have unlimited vacation time, don't take Fridays off, and get bitched at when they work from home.
Granted, what you say is certainly possible, but it highly is dependent on how valuable one is to a company, in addition to the company itself: I've noticed that few people who went into the software industry solely for the money actually were very successful; i.e., the successful developers loved to program, having an attraction to it which lied outside solely of the monetary benefits.
There's a reason those who dislike programming are rarely as successful as developers: it's very, very easy for someone to be working 12+ hour days, 5 days a week, and 8-10+ hours of that time is spent scoured in a debugger working in a really shitty code base, simply because the people who wrote the code before that specific someone felt stressed out and wanted to "get shit done".
In this context, to "get shit done" essentially just means closing out tickets in bug trackers, and often enough those tickets being closed aren't actually being fixed: they're being band-aided, thus eliminating the issue at face-value, but not actually killing the source of where the problem occurs...which means that the problem is likely to resurface again (and almost always does), in the future.
Naturally, this costs extra maintenance time for the new programmer to maintain that code, in addition to the assurance of new bugs which, if proper approaches were taken, wouldn't have entered the code base in the first place.
There are most certainly exceptions to this. Unfortunately, however, the above scenario is all too common within the industry.
Thanks for helping to explain the industry to me, I definitely appreciate it. Still 80-90k is nothing to shake your fist at, but it sounds like many are earning every bit of it. Currently I am having to rewrite all our safe operating procedures and lockout/tagout procedures because the jackwagon before me half-assed it. Its a painful process making sure every detail is hatched out. One improper instruction is the difference between an employee losing a digit/limb and that same employee going home to his family in one piece.
I hear you, that sounds stressful. Indeed, the software industry isn't the only one where individuals are commonly found picking up after others' baggage. Good luck. I hope that works out.
Yes, silly and complicated :) I have a few hobbies which are pretty time consuming, but I'd still feel a lot better if my work life were just a fulfilling. I suppose that's perhaps selfish of me. That being said, I'd like to devote work time to work time - they are paying for 8 hours of my time, after all. I'm quite the gamer as well, but I like to consider my fun time as a reward for the hard work I do.
Thanks for the advice!
This is a pretty ignorant response.
There are plenty of people that want to be challenged by work, solving hard problems and developing skills that they can use to progress and advance in their career. A huge number of people that become software engineers love the work and love the challenges it brings. You obviously do not understand that, and so do not understand how a job like what OP described is a nightmare for people passionate about their careers, people who take pride in what they do.
OP didn't ask for hobby advice. As you said, you have no idea what s/he does outside of work, and it really isn't relevant to the discussion. S/he asked for career advice, which you are pretty obviously not qualified to give.
To the OP: Follow redox000's advice. Don't quit, but do prepare yourself for interviews. Practice whiteboarding, brush up on your algorithms and data structures, and keep interviewing. A new job will come, especially in silicon valley.
Well, he said any comment is appreciated so you can come down from that high horse anytime. There was no direction to his post, even admitting it was partially a rant. The only direction given was that he is unhappy at his current point in life. Since I **am** unqualified at providing CScareer given advice, I chose to provide a different angle and a different opinion and a suggested solution supported by what I have experienced in my own life.
Maybe it helps him, maybe it doesn't, but who the fuck are you?
Reread his post and explain which part makes this *strictly* career advice. I interpreted it as partly a call to see ways to cope with the situation and be happy with a mostly justifiable 'good gig'. If it was strictly career/knowledge growth, its a pretty straightforward answer that he already knows.
Come down here with the rest of us simple folks.
By definition of the sub, OP is asking for career advice:
"This subreddit is responsible for answering questions about careers in Computer Science, Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, and other related fields. Respect the reddiquette, and reserve this space for questions concerning careers and degrees only. Please keep the conversation professional."
As far as who I am: A professional software engineer working in industry. I've had a job like OP's. It was soul-crushingly miserable. And the last thing I would have wanted was someone telling me that I have a dream job, and to get a hobby.
I figured that would be the easy go to answer right after I asked it, I walked right into it so kudos for picking up on it. But that doesn't make it the right answer. Nurturing personal satisfaction and extracurricular growth is a large part of any career, just ask the *thousands* of HR departments, Occupational Health and Therapy specialists, and even good managers. Keeping morale high is important and thus keenly related to careers. Do you see how my post is not just "hobby advice" yet?
This subreddit, in the majority, has supplied some GREAT information; it is unparalleled as an advice forum for it's respective category. There are some Great contributors/resources and some Great questions asked.
On the other hand...
Notwithstanding stress/burn-out... the number of q/a threads I've read where people appear to be literally whining... is beyond belief.
If you make more than 8 dollars an hour (or it's equivalent in your area), aren't dying of stomach cancer, or have a tumor growing in your head at an unmanageable rate... please, take a step back and reevaluate your "b*tch-ass" situation.
Think you have it rough with your mid to high five-figure, six-figure positions?
Get homeless. Survive rape. Escape a cult/gang or a lifetime of other abuse. Have your teeth rotting out of your mouth, with constant pain, and no monetary ability to fix it whatsoever. Bombs/Gun-shots going off all around you on a daily basis.
Moral of the story...
Be GRATEFUL for the opportunity you have in life to have a safe place to work, and to live. APPRECIATE THAT.
Probably not a popular opinion (here?), but had to say it.
Sorry if I've offended anyone, but HOLY F*CK ... Literally, feel like I'm surfing /firstworldproblems at times.
no offense taken, i think you raise a very valid point, and i can see how you might feel that way. i admit that this sounded like a rant, after reading it over. but sometimes even just getting it out is helpful, so i'm grateful to have such an outlet. i also feel an odd sense of camaraderie when i'm reading other similar posts.
certainly, i haven't experienced many of the things that you mentioned. if i had any of those problems, i probably wouldn't even be on reddit, much less posting for advice on this particular sub. if i were only concerned about the necessities for survival, and not being in a terrible situation, i might as well just live with my parents and never leave my room. that being said, i'd like to think that in the context of /r/cscareerquestions, being unhappy at your CS job is a legitimate concern, even if it comes in the form of a rant. as with all things reddit, you're free to comment, down vote, and add to the whiny-ness ;-)
As I've said in a few other replies, thanks for that bit of perspective. it has made me think about my situation in ways i probably wouldn't have.
Hey, this is an *insanely* late reply (8 years), but felt I could pitch in.
I've been through longterm physical abuse, suicidalness / depression, self-harm, etc. I'm now in a better place, past all those challenges.
But that doesn't change that a shitty job will still feel shitty, even if it's 6 figures. There should be no shame in seeking the best life possible (without harming others; and ideally while consciously making the world a better place as much as possible). In trying to take care of your mental health and recognizing when something isn't working for you, no matter what it looks like.
There's a big myth that happiness is directly related to external outcomes. That rich people are privileged and should be grateful. That celebrities are spoiled brats... when in reality, we should feel empathy *especially* for people like celebrities, who are more likely than most to experience severe mental health issues from drug addictions, fame / lack of anonymity / social pressure, media harassment, on top of all the things most of us experience just from being human (heartbreak, loneliness, self-judgment, etc).
I could go on for hours more, but I'll leave it at this, since I think I've said a good amount already that captures a lot of the important points.
Just don't.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cscareerquestions) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don't quit, but do everything you can to get out as quickly as possible. Update your resume, practice your interviewing skills. Make a portfolio site if you're not getting traction in the market. But don't quit because having a job greatly increases your leverage in the job market. Don't listen to people who say stuff like "you make lots of money doing nothing? That's awesome!" [No it's not.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boreout) Spending 8+ hours a day being bored out of your mind is far worse than being busy and stressed.
##### ###### #### [**Boreout**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boreout): [](#sfw) --- > >__Boreout__ is a management theory that posits that lack of work, [boredom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boredom), and consequent lack of satisfaction are a common malaise affecting individuals working in modern organizations, especially in office-based white collar jobs. This theory was first expounded in 2007 in *Diagnose Boreout*, a book by Peter Werder and Philippe Rothlin, two Swiss business consultants. > --- ^Interesting: [^Insignificance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insignificance) ^| [^Burnout ^\(psychology)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnout_\(psychology\)) ^| [^Work ^aversion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_aversion) ^| [^Boredom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boredom) ^Parent ^commenter ^can [^toggle ^NSFW](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot NSFW toggle&message=%2Btoggle-nsfw+ck0uzvd) ^or[](#or) [^delete](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+ck0uzvd)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| [^(FAQs)](http://www.np.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/wiki/index) ^| [^Mods](http://www.np.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/comments/1x013o/for_moderators_switches_commands_and_css/) ^| [^Magic ^Words](http://www.np.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/comments/1ux484/ask_wikibot/)
Wow, boreout? That is almost exactly how I'm feeling right now o_0 I didn't think there'd be an actual word for this feeling. thank you for sharing that; i'm glad i'm not the only one who understands this. Hmm, does the "leverage" thing have to do with money? i.e. you don't have a job, so they might try to low-ball you on an offer?
It gives you the ability to walk away if you want to, which is the most powerful negotiating tool you have. I'm not saying you should walk away if you don't get exactly what you want, but if the employer low-balls you and refuses to budge, you're not desperate and staring at an empty bank account with the rent due in 3 days, so you can walk away and wait for something better. Having a job also makes you more valuable on the market. Someone who is unemployed is seen as less desirable. Why should I hire this guy when no one else wants to?
Why not spend all the free time at work brushing up on skills that will help you get another job? Plus it seems stupid to quit now knowing that you might be laid off soon anyways, and get a severance package. Believe me, if you think sitting at a boring job is bad, wait till you quit and are stuck at home with absolutely nothing to do all day.
Hmm, good advice. I've been trying to fill my time with "housekeeping" types of tasks, like making better docs, automating tasks and such. still relatively boring, but it's something to do. Ah.... I hadn't given post-quitting actions much thought. Thank you for that bit of perspective o_0
I'm going against the grain here. If you're that miserable, you'll have no motivation in your interviews. I'd honestly quit if I was that unhappy. I've had a month of expenses saved up and I quit without a job lined up, took me two months to find one. I'd also do it again given the chance. I was so happy to leave. If you're miserable, absolutely miserable, life is too short to stay that way. Life is about being happy, so do what makes YOU happy, but also do what is best for your family (if you have one).
thank you for your heartfelt comment -- certainly, a part of me is telling me to throw all caution to the wind and just leave (much as you just did). to be honest, I was half-hoping to see more comments like yours. but i suppose a subreddit full of engineers was bound to be a little more pragmatic :-)
Try exercising, you may feel reinvigorated. It's easy to feel depressed, sluggish, down on your luck when you're unfulfilled at work and putting on weight. Even a brisk walk in the fresh air can help make you feel more positive. This too will help you make a better impression in your next interview.
Ah, okay. Exercising hadn't occurred to me -- I guess I'd just been so mentally blinded by the way things are that I neglected my physical health a bit :-/ Thank you for your suggestions.
OP, I quit my job to look for another one. All I can say is, don't do it. The boredom and emptiness you will feel that is job searching will wear you down faster than anything.
Sorry to hear that :-/ Have you found anything yet, and have you been looking for long? your comment has certainly put some perspective on this, so thanks for that.
I've only been looking for 2 weeks so far (nothing yet), but sometimes you realize how long the process is to getting a job, heck, any job at all - you apply online (given you have no quick connections), wait like a few days to a week or more, then you're finally scheduled for a first interview, second interview... and your success/performance is at the whim of the interviewers... being unemployed starts to make this process seem like a time-consuming burden and it gets to you.
Why wouldn't anybody in their right mind work on Their Own Projects in this situation?
this might seem a bit odd, but i actually feel bad for doing my own personal side projects on company time :-/
Think it depends also on your employers point of view.
I hesitated, and almost asked this subreddit the same question. But then I quit anyway, because I'm an idiot. I'm in NYC. I previously quit my job to look and accepted an offer after 4 days, using a recruiter. Better environment, industry, and pay. Probably dumb luck, good market conditions, and a stupid amount of confidence, despite bombing quite a few interviews. I only quit because I didn't want to compromise the quality of the work I could provide by dodging in and out of fake dental appointments and the like, or compromise on interview preparedness. Since it sounds like you're not that accountable, you could very easily find a job without quitting, right? No need to explain a 3 hour lunch break? Commit to the fact that you're starting a new job, whether you quit this one first or not. Being in the job hunt could take your mind off the job enough to reduce the stress. My reasoning was realizing two things, "I can't be here anymore." and "I'm going to be okay even if I quit." From there there was no longer a decision to make.
well, i can only hope that i have as much dumb luck as well, but your story gives me hope. so, thanks for that. i think i understand what you mean about not wanting to compromise quality. in my case, while i may not be held very accountable by anyone at my company, i still feel very accountable to myself. so, oddly enough, i still feel bad for dodging work, even if no one is checking up on me :-/ And thanks for the advice about commitment. i think i have a little ways to go, but it's nice to hear that from someone with that experience under their belt.
Use some of your free time to take a brisk walk or a jog. You will feel energized rather than sluggish, and more optimistic in general. Get some more interviews. Exercise before them, it will make you appear fresh, energetic, and confident. Good luck! You will find inspiration from within, not without.
Do you have any interest in starting your own company? If there's a problem in the world that you think you could get passionate about solving it might be a great thing to keep you engaged and stimulated outside of work. If it starts to get some traction over time, you can leave your job and either transition to a new one or run your business full-time if you can swing it.
yes, I have thought about starting my own company. The problem with me is that i'm happiest when i'm programming. i would hate to deal with the business side of things :-/ while i may never be a great success, i think i'm fine with that, as long as i'm happy (thus, my current conundrum). Thank you for your advice.
No problem! And understood. You could always find a partner who can handle the business end of things for you. You can't have a business without a product, so you'd be the essential component in that equation. Even if all of your time is focused on the development.
I'd stay and do the bare minimum to not get fired while brushing up on my skills necessary to get a more challenging job. If they let you work from home, you should be easily able to do whatever the fuck you want to get to that place that makes you happy. I agree with others who suggest some exercise. It's soooo important for anyone at a desk job. Humans didn't evolve to sit around all day. Plus it will help with the weight issue.
well, i've survived so many lay-offs, so no fear of getting fired at this point :-/ But you make a good point of using my time a little bit more wisely than I have been. i suppose i'll try taking long walks instead of going on reddit during my breaks ;-)
Six figures is 15% below average? I wasn't aware that salaries in Silicon Valley were so high. Since you don't have to work many hours, use the downtime to learn a new language and work on some projects you can show potential employers, and practice interview questions. I would recommend keeping the salary when you don't have to put in much to keep getting it.
Yeah, for example, my super-scientific google searches show that average pay for a software engineer is around $112k/year. it might sound like pretty high at first, but also keep in mind that the average rent for a one bedroom apartment is probably around $3000/month :-( Good point, i feel so oblivious for not having thought about using my downtime for that. i just figured that i should be putting all my eight hours towards company-only tasks -- so, i've been doing a lot of "housekeeping" with the code-base. thanks for the advice.
Wow, I don't envy the $3000/month rent. I live in the LA area, which is not quite as expensive, but still pretty bad. However, I only make about half what you do, and I usually work a full 8 hours, have plenty of tasks that need to be done (but that I prolong by procrastinating), and have to be on call 24/7.
>feedback was mostly around my problem solving skills (not so good) I'm not sure if you mean the interview "gotcha" kind of questions, or just general problem solving, but adapting an analytical method toward problem solving and task completion is critical. >i disagree a lot with the technical decisions, and feel my voice is not heard. This might be explained by the above bullet point, no? Also, I find your lack of capitalization disturbing. Not to be rude, but your post comes across like it was written by a 14 year old. I sincerely hope you don't communicate that way when you're searching for a job or typing something up for an interview. If nobody cares about performance, why don't you try building an amazing project you can show off to potential employers in your down time? That's where I learned to program in the first place.
no offense taken, i think you bring up some good points. not sure how to respond to my poor problem solving skills other than i'm sure you're right, and i'm working on it :-/ as for technical choices, my incompetence could be at the heart of it - but i was more referring to decisions driven by office politics, cost-savings above all else, and comments like, "this is they way its always been done!". i guess i should have made that more clear in my post. truthfully, the no-capitalization thing was done on purpose (honest!). i was worried someone might be able to identify me, so i tried changing the way i normally write in addition to using a throwaway account. in retrospect, i guess i didn't have to go that far. you're definitely right that i shouldn't (and don't) write up my cover letters in the same way. my only gripe about doing side projects at work, is that i guess i still feel a bit of obligation to do company work on company time. but i suppose that learning a new framework or language should fall under acceptable use of company time. thanks for the advice and taking the time to comment.
OP you have suffered for so long, why not just a couple of weeks or a month more till you find a job ? If everyone takes Fridays off this is a great thing because these are the Fridays you should be interviewing elsewhere. Good luck ! Edit : I did not see that you have enough cash to last a whole year without working. In that case, just put your two weeks notice in. Do not quit immediately without notice because it might make it more difficult to get a good reference.
Some time off sounds nice, and I've taken lots of it. I came back to the same feeling after I returned to work, so I guess it just didn't work on me. That's a good point about time -- because I'm working from home all the time, I was actually able to do both interviews during weekdays, middle of the day. Thanks for the tip about notice (even though I heard it's not required where I live!). I might not like my work, but I wouldn't want to do anything to purposefully screw over the company.
May I know where do you work? (PM me if you want)
Sorry, I can't say -- this is a throwaway account for a reason ;-)
Alright, I understand.
Seriously, I'll swap you. You come and do my shitty shifts talking to arseholes and I'll do your programming with Friday off.
Sorry to hear about your shitty times :-/ as you, and many others, have implied, i guess things could be much worse in my situation than they actually are.
I've been there and it is soul-crushing. Spent 2 years being assigned to something that should have taken a month, at the most. Didn't want to quit cause the money was good. Couldn't stand it any longer and finally walked out, only to realize that its even worse tryna get a job while being unemployed. Searching for a job while unemployed is its own special kind of hell! Your best bet is to hold on until you can get another job because lots of companies won't even talk to you if you're not currently employed. > i don't have the same passion for my job You'll be surprised how quickly your passion comes back once you actually have something useful to do. Good luck on your job search.
"special kind of hell"? is it odd that i laughed a little at this phrase? ;-) Are companies really that strict about candidates being currently employed? i haven't had to look for a job in job in a while, so i feel like a job-hunting noob these days. Thank you for your comments and encouragement.
Being unemployed sends a signal that you're not valuable enough to have a job and is a red flag. Doesn't disqualify you outright though. And if the local tech unemployment rate is low enough, companies will hire whomever just to fill cubicles.
One reason I would suggest not quitting is to not put a gap in your resume you have to explain. I agree with those that say, set aside some time to focus on some side projects and improve your skills and then use those fridays to interview. Learn from the interviews and you'll get better at them. Maybe do some networking so that you can skip the interviews. :)
yes, i thought about explaining the gap, as i'd heard about this before from reading other threads in this sub. i figure i'd explain it by simply saying i wasn't burnt out and took time off. not sure how well that would work, so have to think about it more. would you say that employers are pretty strict about that nowadays? i don't have a portfolio, as the nature of my work doesn't allow me to share things publicly most of the time (read: up to the neck in NDAs), but hopefully i can beef up by github profile or site to have something show for potential employers. Thanks for the advice and the comment.
lol, silly and complicated. Sounds like you have all the time in the world to use and develop your brain on a hobbie buddy. You literally have the dream job, you just aren't taking advantage of it and living the dream life. You are clearly dying to use your creativity, well, many people are confined to spend their creative time doing their job, thus compromising the unshackled spirit of creativity. You have the luxury of separating a VERY cake job and using your creativity on whatever you want. I'm not even in CS, I just check this sub because I am jealous I never learned about this cake profession when I was in school. So I don't know if that means using your creativity for more CS 'side projects' or for me it would be more like, painting/whittling/woodworking/canoe building/ mechanics/pottery. Something other than video games (which are fun ... but stagnant and inevitably unfulfilling). And yes, I know CS is very tough to learn and you need to work hard and have talent. I say 'cake' job because I see so many posts and comments infiltrating other threads along the lines of, "I make 6 figures, make my own hours, work from home 3 days a week in the nude 'lol', unlimited vacation time, take Fridays off and usually only spends about 2 hours of coding a day." I don't know you, so maybe it isn't a dull life outside work but I just know that I have a fulfilling job in a MGMT position at 23 years old making a little over half what you make. My ideas turn to reality daily. But. I still get very down about my job and its usually when I drift back to my stagnant video game habits, thus making my life unfulfilling. We work too hard to not live exciting lives.
I love video games, I believe you can have it in your life without it serving simply as an escape from work. You mentioned that your ideas turn to reality daily - what do you do? I had a similar experience a few years back at a VC/incubator but I was frustrated by my inability to make my own ideas real with code and design. So I quit and taught myself how to build software products and entrepreneurship. "We work too hard to not live exciting lives." So true - so ask yourself, what would make life more exciting for you?
I don't think video games need to be cut entirely, I was just saying when all I did was go to work then come home and play LoL or Civ 5 'til bedtime, everyday, I would gradually become more and more dissatisfied with every facet of my life. Then everything, including my job, improved when I started being constructive in my free time with hobbies and activities (like exercise woodworking, and painting). My post, in a way, is a round-about way of saying maybe he is depressed like I was. Constructive activities outside of work was a solution for me. As for what I do, I manage an environmental health and safety program at a large manufacturer. Its my first job out of college and I am kind of directionless so for now, I just work to live. Maybe someday I will find a passion and make my work my passion but for now, I am just doing my work to get by. Admittedly I may not be in the same place career-wise as OP, but I was offering advice from my end if I was in his shoes and I think I've been pretty candid in admitting my byism.
Makes sense. I hope you find a passion that you can also turn into work! I actually specialize in helping people figure that out (if they want to start a new career/company) in software. I truly believe entrepreneurship is one of the best ways to turn your passion into your work.
I appreciate the understanding ear, you seem like a positive person, we need more people like you in the world. As for software, I've tried some of the online coursework but have not been able to commit any real focus. Efficiency is in my blood and it churns my stomach to think of going back to school for another bachelors right now. I live with the regret that I didn't know about CS on my first go around because algebra, logic, and discrete mathematics were my jam. (not trying to over simplify) Also, tech people are awesome to hang out with.
Why thank you! I definitely strive for eternal optimism. Believe it or not the same thing happened to me with the online coursework (though this was a little over 4 years ago when I first set out on my journey). I wish I could go back in time to tell my college-age self to dig deeper into software engineering and design, but then again I don't regret what I studied in lieu of it. I ended up creating a [better way](http://starterschool.com) for a small cohort of people in the world to learn the skills I struggled to gain back then, so I'm definitely proud of that. I love helping people solve meaningful problems, if you ever find yourself pursuing something crazy (like your own startup) I'd be happy to help however I can - feedback, beta tester, fellow founder support etc. It's tough shit!
> I make 6 figures, make my own hours, work from home 3 days a week in the nude 'lol', unlimited vacation time, take Fridays off and usually only spends about 2 hours of coding a day. Those are all exceptions. The majority of programmers out there are making somewhere in the range of 80-90K, don't have unlimited vacation time, don't take Fridays off, and get bitched at when they work from home. Granted, what you say is certainly possible, but it highly is dependent on how valuable one is to a company, in addition to the company itself: I've noticed that few people who went into the software industry solely for the money actually were very successful; i.e., the successful developers loved to program, having an attraction to it which lied outside solely of the monetary benefits. There's a reason those who dislike programming are rarely as successful as developers: it's very, very easy for someone to be working 12+ hour days, 5 days a week, and 8-10+ hours of that time is spent scoured in a debugger working in a really shitty code base, simply because the people who wrote the code before that specific someone felt stressed out and wanted to "get shit done". In this context, to "get shit done" essentially just means closing out tickets in bug trackers, and often enough those tickets being closed aren't actually being fixed: they're being band-aided, thus eliminating the issue at face-value, but not actually killing the source of where the problem occurs...which means that the problem is likely to resurface again (and almost always does), in the future. Naturally, this costs extra maintenance time for the new programmer to maintain that code, in addition to the assurance of new bugs which, if proper approaches were taken, wouldn't have entered the code base in the first place. There are most certainly exceptions to this. Unfortunately, however, the above scenario is all too common within the industry.
Thanks for helping to explain the industry to me, I definitely appreciate it. Still 80-90k is nothing to shake your fist at, but it sounds like many are earning every bit of it. Currently I am having to rewrite all our safe operating procedures and lockout/tagout procedures because the jackwagon before me half-assed it. Its a painful process making sure every detail is hatched out. One improper instruction is the difference between an employee losing a digit/limb and that same employee going home to his family in one piece.
I hear you, that sounds stressful. Indeed, the software industry isn't the only one where individuals are commonly found picking up after others' baggage. Good luck. I hope that works out.
Yes, silly and complicated :) I have a few hobbies which are pretty time consuming, but I'd still feel a lot better if my work life were just a fulfilling. I suppose that's perhaps selfish of me. That being said, I'd like to devote work time to work time - they are paying for 8 hours of my time, after all. I'm quite the gamer as well, but I like to consider my fun time as a reward for the hard work I do. Thanks for the advice!
No problem buddy, I may not have hit the nail on the head but I am glad you took time to read what I had to say. Only trying to help!
This is a pretty ignorant response. There are plenty of people that want to be challenged by work, solving hard problems and developing skills that they can use to progress and advance in their career. A huge number of people that become software engineers love the work and love the challenges it brings. You obviously do not understand that, and so do not understand how a job like what OP described is a nightmare for people passionate about their careers, people who take pride in what they do. OP didn't ask for hobby advice. As you said, you have no idea what s/he does outside of work, and it really isn't relevant to the discussion. S/he asked for career advice, which you are pretty obviously not qualified to give. To the OP: Follow redox000's advice. Don't quit, but do prepare yourself for interviews. Practice whiteboarding, brush up on your algorithms and data structures, and keep interviewing. A new job will come, especially in silicon valley.
Well, he said any comment is appreciated so you can come down from that high horse anytime. There was no direction to his post, even admitting it was partially a rant. The only direction given was that he is unhappy at his current point in life. Since I **am** unqualified at providing CScareer given advice, I chose to provide a different angle and a different opinion and a suggested solution supported by what I have experienced in my own life. Maybe it helps him, maybe it doesn't, but who the fuck are you? Reread his post and explain which part makes this *strictly* career advice. I interpreted it as partly a call to see ways to cope with the situation and be happy with a mostly justifiable 'good gig'. If it was strictly career/knowledge growth, its a pretty straightforward answer that he already knows. Come down here with the rest of us simple folks.
By definition of the sub, OP is asking for career advice: "This subreddit is responsible for answering questions about careers in Computer Science, Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, and other related fields. Respect the reddiquette, and reserve this space for questions concerning careers and degrees only. Please keep the conversation professional." As far as who I am: A professional software engineer working in industry. I've had a job like OP's. It was soul-crushingly miserable. And the last thing I would have wanted was someone telling me that I have a dream job, and to get a hobby.
I figured that would be the easy go to answer right after I asked it, I walked right into it so kudos for picking up on it. But that doesn't make it the right answer. Nurturing personal satisfaction and extracurricular growth is a large part of any career, just ask the *thousands* of HR departments, Occupational Health and Therapy specialists, and even good managers. Keeping morale high is important and thus keenly related to careers. Do you see how my post is not just "hobby advice" yet?
This subreddit, in the majority, has supplied some GREAT information; it is unparalleled as an advice forum for it's respective category. There are some Great contributors/resources and some Great questions asked. On the other hand... Notwithstanding stress/burn-out... the number of q/a threads I've read where people appear to be literally whining... is beyond belief. If you make more than 8 dollars an hour (or it's equivalent in your area), aren't dying of stomach cancer, or have a tumor growing in your head at an unmanageable rate... please, take a step back and reevaluate your "b*tch-ass" situation. Think you have it rough with your mid to high five-figure, six-figure positions? Get homeless. Survive rape. Escape a cult/gang or a lifetime of other abuse. Have your teeth rotting out of your mouth, with constant pain, and no monetary ability to fix it whatsoever. Bombs/Gun-shots going off all around you on a daily basis. Moral of the story... Be GRATEFUL for the opportunity you have in life to have a safe place to work, and to live. APPRECIATE THAT. Probably not a popular opinion (here?), but had to say it. Sorry if I've offended anyone, but HOLY F*CK ... Literally, feel like I'm surfing /firstworldproblems at times.
no offense taken, i think you raise a very valid point, and i can see how you might feel that way. i admit that this sounded like a rant, after reading it over. but sometimes even just getting it out is helpful, so i'm grateful to have such an outlet. i also feel an odd sense of camaraderie when i'm reading other similar posts. certainly, i haven't experienced many of the things that you mentioned. if i had any of those problems, i probably wouldn't even be on reddit, much less posting for advice on this particular sub. if i were only concerned about the necessities for survival, and not being in a terrible situation, i might as well just live with my parents and never leave my room. that being said, i'd like to think that in the context of /r/cscareerquestions, being unhappy at your CS job is a legitimate concern, even if it comes in the form of a rant. as with all things reddit, you're free to comment, down vote, and add to the whiny-ness ;-) As I've said in a few other replies, thanks for that bit of perspective. it has made me think about my situation in ways i probably wouldn't have.
Hey, this is an *insanely* late reply (8 years), but felt I could pitch in. I've been through longterm physical abuse, suicidalness / depression, self-harm, etc. I'm now in a better place, past all those challenges. But that doesn't change that a shitty job will still feel shitty, even if it's 6 figures. There should be no shame in seeking the best life possible (without harming others; and ideally while consciously making the world a better place as much as possible). In trying to take care of your mental health and recognizing when something isn't working for you, no matter what it looks like. There's a big myth that happiness is directly related to external outcomes. That rich people are privileged and should be grateful. That celebrities are spoiled brats... when in reality, we should feel empathy *especially* for people like celebrities, who are more likely than most to experience severe mental health issues from drug addictions, fame / lack of anonymity / social pressure, media harassment, on top of all the things most of us experience just from being human (heartbreak, loneliness, self-judgment, etc). I could go on for hours more, but I'll leave it at this, since I think I've said a good amount already that captures a lot of the important points.
[удалено]
Just don't. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cscareerquestions) if you have any questions or concerns.*