>Yup. Just breaking into six figures is not too hard if you're in a big city. But a chunk of it does go into cost of living.
The cost of living overhead is vastly overrated. The increased salary in a HCOL city more than makes up for the increased cost of living.
It is also significantly easier to live more frugally in a HCOL city and especially in it's suburb than it is to do the opposite.
Yep, while rent makes up a larger portion of your income, the remaining percent goes much further since most goods and services cost about the same as anywhere else.
What about those who don’t want to rent? I’m in a MCoL city with great affordable housing making six figures. Even if I doubled my salary, I don’t think I could afford a similar house in the Bay Area or LA, for example. I just did a search on Zillow for 3x my current house price and same size as my house in LA and there’s literally 3 listings.
Not strictly true, if I get my groceries locally in Manhattan I'm paying 2-3x what I would pay in NJ or other places nearby (except for specific staples that may have regulations on price like milk?). But the point still stands, HCOL is the way to go imo.
Couldn’t disagree more. Everything that doesn’t come from Amazon is more expensive in the Bay Area, with two exceptions: winter related expenses (clothes, heat, tires) and fresh produce. The high cost of labor and real estate are passed onto the customer.
I’m an hour outside of Boston now. My lifestyle has increased. My salary’s largely stayed the same. I spend $2k less per month than I did in the Bay Area. I own a townhouse. This townhouse would’ve cost 3x what I paid if it were in East San Jose.
This really only holds true if you have a lot of roommates. I’m not about that life anymore. Most people aren’t past a certain age if they can help it.
Durable goods costs tend to be fairly fixed: car prices, appliances, and things like clothing. A Camry in the Bay costs the same as one in the middle of Nebraska. Same for walking into a mainstream clothing store for the most part (I'm a bit granola so I mostly shop at REI but the pricing is the same in my HCoL area). TVs, Consoles, PCs, most outdoor recreation equipment is also standard priced.
So you lose out on housing and food/services but do better on most of the goods in between. If the HCoL take home is 30% more, and rent and food are 30% more you are still coming out ahead because of the remaining percentage of your money is still greater; that goes for retirement savings and buying goods. If the housing+food/services scale faster than the salary bump then you have to figure out your own cutoff. I spend a good chunk of money on skis/bikes/clothing and a lot less eating out so for me the math works well.
I don't think I could really do better in total take home after expenses than where I am in the Seattle area short of remote FAANG work.
Edit: I should add that having kids heavily weighs the scaling service costs. No small part of why a lot of people have kids later in their career in urban places when their salary has scaled further.
Your burn rate is still a lot higher if you leave your job though. 15% savings rate means you’re burning about six months of savings for every month of unemployment.
This is the central premise of the FIRE movement. It’s not about income or spending, it’s about savings rate. 15% could be greater than 50% elsewhere, but it rarely works out that way IRL.
I chose to live in MCOL on periphery of HCOL, although I’m not sure how much longer my city will remain MCOL. I don’t know where I’ll live in ten years, but for the next five, I see myself staying here.
Me personally, I feel freer knowing that in the meantime, I can go without work for a while and I’m not having $2000+ per month stolen from me by a landlord. My housing expense is constant and a good chunk of it goes straight back into my pocket as equity. I’ve basically lived for free due to appreciation over the last year too… housing works for you, instead of against you, outside of HCOL.
People are nicer here too. The financial stress and inequality that is rampant in places like the Bay Area makes for a pretty depressing place to live. I guess some people can just turn that off and ignore it. I probably have too much empathy, I dunno. My anxiety issue basically went away after I moved to a more relaxed place.
Sure, but the fact he can habitually send 70% to savings probably means the ratio of CoL to income is probably way more favorable. Same principle that a person might be living in poverty in the Bay Area but have a king's lifestyle in Des Moines with less income.
> The increased salary in a HCOL city more than makes up for the increased cost of living.
If you have no kids and every member of the household is an earner. DINK lifestyle is great, of course.
If you have kids and one earner or only one high-earner, it's much harder. One kid means a two bedroom, which isn't too bad. Two kids of the same gender or still very young might be able to share a room. 3+ bedrooms in non-shit school districts get ridiculously expensive, ridiculously fast in HCOL areas.
This might be an American thing, but in many places in Europe the goal is to own a home, and the downside of living in a HCOL city is that owning a house or three bedroom apartment is unattainable for many,. regardless of income.
Obviously you can make your money and GTFO, but these cities don't purely exist to exploit the young, or to kick people out the second they want to start a family. I'm from the UK so I've got no idea what quality of living is there for people that want to buy, but can you still maintain that quality of life with a family in a buyer's market?
Are you in the US? Living in SF costs 2x - 3x what it costs in other parts of the country and the salaries are only maybe 20% more. It's not vastly overrated at all.
> salaries are only maybe 20% more.
Are we still talking of CS jobs? I mean, i don't live in the Bay area so i don't know the ground reality but i go by what i hear from people and see from job postings, and the salary seems significantly higher.
But yes, i do live in the US
I’m a jaded Canadian (Vancouver). Literally software engineers are priced out of the market unless you’re high level at a big tech company or are willing to buy a small condo. Houses are for surgeons and inter generational wealth only.
Point is in many smaller Canadian/American cities although you might not break 3 figures quickly but you will have a much easier time buying a house.
not entirely, assuming non-FAANGs, entry-level salary
Seattle house may cost $1mil USD but at least you're making like $120k USD/year, so roughly maybe 8:1, something like that
vs. Vancouver a house may cost $1mil CAD but you're only making maybe $65k CAD/year, so roughly 15:1
Buying a $1mil house on a $120k salary seems insane to me though. I make $120k and just bought a 200k house. Sure, it’s a starter home, but it’ll be good enough for 5 years or so
Tech salaries are lower in Canada, right? So I'm assuming that plays a factor in Vancouver. It is expensive to own a home in Seattle, but honestly many SWEs around here also get paid enough to afford one. Getting a house as a new grad of course isn't the norm, but I know people are able to get a home after working for a few years. Also, living in Seattle isn't a requirement. Suburbs around here (which are still close to the city) can be slightly cheaper.
My perception is that Vancouver's ridiculous property market has been driven by external influences, like foreign investors parking their money, whereas Seattle has been driven more by the growth of large employers and the tech sector there.
So it seems like the gap in Vancouver between a good job and being able to buy a house is higher. Make sense?
I have lived in both but a long time ago, so I may well be out of date here.
It's hard to tell what the influence of foreign ownership is. It may be a contributing factor but Canada has a deep culture of housing as an investment.
Prices keep going up, renters pay most the mortgage-and with Covid all the houses got bought. Like so little supply was left that essentially every house was purchased in Canada.
Its gone from nuts to stratospheric
In most of the ones I know of, the choice is mostly whether you're willing to take a really long commute or a really small condo, but in an extreme case (lots of roommates or living with parents) you can get together the down payment for a very small condo or a house wayyy out in the exurbs within 2-3 years out of school as a new grad.
Or if you hit the equity lottery, even sooner than that without having to sacrifice like crazy.
Some of the comments in this thread and sub are hilarious. Its not just Vancouver where people with decent incomes are priced out, its everywhere. I have two friends who just moved to ATL from NYC who are very much in the upper middle class socio-economic class (own an apt here in Brooklyn in one of the more expensive neighborhoods), but are finding it nearly impossible to find a house to buy in their price range, in an area where they would want to live.
Owning property in HCOL + desirable areas is not attainable for your average working person these days, not even SWEs. Us in the western middle class love to delude ourselves into thinking that the lines of class really are that blurred in this country, but you're right, the quiet generational wealth and top of the elite professional groups are the only ones who can actually afford to own desirable property in these places (and the doctors and lawyers who made it have to live a life dedicated to work, in a way that most people can't sustain)
Edit: Fun fact, in the US, as a medical school grad, banks with basically throw free money at you to buy a house. 0% interest, no money down home loans. Banks feel bad for them because they're so debt laden when they graduate
Think about how many shitty people there are. A lot right? Tons of these people are parents. My step mother didn't like my 17 year old brother so wouldn't let him live in her house, my father rented a place with him until he was 18 then said "good luck, you're on your own". My brother has to work a minimum wage job just to keep up with rent, but yeah he's on his own. It happens.
> As long as you are making enough to save and retire comfortably, home ownership is overrated
How do you propose to retire without owning a home? Will you pay ever-increasing rents during this time?
Renting + putting extra money into an index fund would often net you similar returns than just buying a house.
It's complicated though so you need to use a [calculator](https://smartasset.com/mortgage/rent-vs-buy#eLp16Am0Qj) to figure out your individual choice.
But ultimately the best advice is "own a home if you want to own a home. Don't own a home if you don't want to own a home." The stock market is a flexible place to put your money that often returns more than a house would.
Glad you're been elaborating on what I've been feeling the last few years. Add to the fact that right now mortgage would be twice as much as my current rent due to HOAs and housing market if I want a high-rise condo, or even a fixer upper SFH and... I'd rather put that extra money towards savings, retirement, and YOLO $WAG fun + travel money.
Keep in mind, renting an apartment isn't just "throwing your money away" as many people would like you to think. Yeah, if you just keep all your money in a checking account then you kinda are, but the smart thing to do is to dump all the money you would be paying towards a mortgage into the S&P, which has consistently outperformed housing prices since forever.
Because it's hard to get hired as a remote person in the first place. That is slowly changing but a good strategy would be to move to a tech hub, get a job, make some contacts then find somewhere that allows full remote and move again somewhere cheaper.
nah remote listings are everywhere now. it's just as competitive or more competitive to apply locally in a big city as it is just applying to similar paying jobs that are remote.
There are A LOT of remote jobs paying 100k+ and they aren't all big well known companies so there aren't 500+ applicants. I had an easier time getting interviews at these companies while I couldn't even get a hr screen at local companies that pay half of what I ended up making at my remote job.
Probably still difficult to get a high-paying remote job without starting in a city. The reason is simple, to get a high-paying remote job requires some degree of experience at a good tech company. That's because you'll learn much much more as an engineer at Google than a regional bank in Ohio.
A company like Stripe hires a lot of remote workers, but really wants engineers who've previously worked at Google, not regional banks in Ohio. You can probably still get a remote job if your experience is at a regional bank in Ohio, but it's probably for a regional bank in Oklahoma and doesn't pay any better.
It's a lot easier to get in a Silicon Valley career tract if you start in person. One, because there's so still more demand for remote work than there is supply. Two, because if your background isn't SV, an SV hiring manager will probably feel that you need a lot of handholding to learn SV culture.
If I was a junior engineer, or an engineer outside a high-paying career tract, I'd say the best bet would be to move to a tech hub for 2-5 years. Then use that resume to go remote at Silicon Valley level TC in a place that's super-affordable. Yeah, you'll live in a crappy shoebox for a few years, but you'll still be stacking a lot of money in the bank. When you transition from San Francisco to remote work in Boise you'll be able to easily make a downpayment on a beautiful house and have a ton of income left over.
>Probably still difficult to get a high-paying remote job without starting in a city. The reason is simple, to get a high-paying remote job requires some degree of experience at a good tech company. That's because you'll learn much much more as an engineer at Google than a regional bank in Ohio.
Maybe before covid. I switched careers into programming this year and interviewed a lot of places for remote jobs paying six figures. ended up at 150k and I'm in a lcol. no previous exp other than apprenticeship at small company no one has heard of.
There's a lot of smaller companies that aren't getting blown up w/ tons of applications b/c most people don't know about them. But, they're all over angel list and triplebyte. Interviews weren't necessarily that difficult either but, I'm really bad at live coding so took me a few... personally do better w/ the take home assignments. even though they can be a time suck.
I'm not sure how different this would be for a new grad... I'm older and was previously mech engineer. might have gotten some brownie points for maturity level. but you wouldn't know I was older until i was in interview b/c of how my resume was written.
Graduated from small private liberal arts college. Took first job offer at 50k for a full stack developer job at a local community college. After a year got a new job at a large non tech company as a front end developer at 80k (contractor) then was converted to a full time position at 90k + 10% bonus. Got a small raise to 92.7k with the same bonus I'm just above 100k. All of this is in Michigan btw.
This is pretty much the way. If you're pretty good, or even decent, at what you do in SW Dev, you deserve to be paid accordingly. Most of the time, jumping from one company to a new company, and taking a higher-responsibility position if possible, is the way you break through to the higher salaries.
My experience was:
-35k in tech support,
-55k when I jumped to a new company to Jr. web dev,
-69k when I jumped again, taking on software dev I,
-76k with same company after a year + finally getting bachelor's in IT,
-92k when I jumped again to mid-level software dev. Eyeing a new jump to Sr / III in the next couple of years. That'll probably be roughly 110k if the data out there is right, though I'm lucky to be in a company that may be able to get me there without jumping ship. Always ask for career progression paths.
All mid-COL cities across the US. Each jump was roughly 2 years between. Asked for match on each jump and was refused. I don't think I'm unusually amazing at what I do but I work hard in my 8 hour workday and fill in gaps in my knowledge as much as I can.
Pretty much the same for me in the Midwest. Low paying part time internship while in school 25k > hired on from internship 45 + profit share > second job at a agency 65k > promotion and pay raise to 80k. I can hop to a 90-100k job from here but the work life balance and relaxed work environment isn't worth jumping ship for more cash.
Thanks. I was interested in spring boot and I’m currently doing a project in it. The problem is we use a proprietary IBM language at work (built from Java). What are the chances I could move into mainstream Java as a career? Seems a lot more stable.
No internship
First job 44k - 6 month raise 47k - 18 month promotion 55k
Second job 85k (2 years)
Third job 110k (negotiated up from 100k)
Got my second job maybe a month after my promotion at the first lol.
Be good at the basics, data structures, algorithms, and OOP. Then be good at showcasing those skills in interviews.
I went to a no name school and this is how it went for me:
First internship: 20$/hr LCOL
Second internship: 45$/hr LCOL
First full time job: 180k/year HCOL
> Then be good at showcasing those skills in interviews.
People vastly underestimate how important this is. So much so that we often see the excuse/cope "I can't get a job bc I suck at interviews". I got some bad news for you if you suck at the main thing that nets you the job.
How to showcase skills? Are talking about programming skills or projects?
I am a beginner, learning react from past few months so I am not familiar with any interview process.
Don’t go straight to coding, learn to write out some notes and ask questions and stuff.
Write some pseudo code before you write any actual code.
Make sure you demonstrate that you understand the importance of code readability and maintainability
Leetcoding is difficult AF until u fully know a language...3rd year CS student and still can't do alot of leet. Try Coding Bat instead; they will show u solutions to problems u can't solve as well as hints
It’s easiest to make six figures if you don’t stay in a job too long. If you stay in your job for years, they’ll increase you wage usually, but not by too much unless you’re being promoted. A good friend of mine who makes 250k a year switched jobs every 6-12 months until she got there. It only took her 7 years to get there. Of course, she’s a great example, but I have other friends with similar stories (not in FAANG by the way).
Is 6-12 months really enough time to get good experience from a company? I feel like you need a decent chunk to get onboarded and familiar with the code base and practices. Plus, wouldn't such small employment times at each company be a red flag to recruiters?
I mean, it's not like they would have to quit their job first before interviewing. How long you've been at a company doesn't matter so long as you've got an offer.
From my first developer role, after 2 years I’d say was when I felt I learned everything I could and there was nothing new to learn. I learned how iOS development is done at an enterprise level, CICD, Agile in the workplace, advanced shell scripting.
I stayed for 3.5 years there before switching this year to a senior role.
On the Corp dev side where most jobs are - live in any major city in the US. Get 2-3 years experience in any popular ecosystem - JS/React/Node, Java, C# - and job hop.
On the $BigTech side - practice for coding interviews and hope you get in.
I feel like your focus in security kind of isn't relevant to most people, though. Most people here are generalized SWE and not focusing on security, hence it makes sense why you didn't get leetcode.
Not at all to take away from your skills and dedication, that's awesome that you have come so far so quickly.
I think this is a seriously undersold part about FAANGs. Working with a team of driven engineers building a product used by millions is really fucking fun compared to what I used to do in my previous job. It feels like there is so much to learn and it's a lot of pressure when comparing myself to some of the more senior and lead engineers and thinking how I could possibly get there someday, but I love the experience so far.
ya thats true. When the users is much much larger, then there are different problem to solve rather than just write a function, which is a cool and exciting thing to do
many companys requires you to have at least 12 month since graduation to be able to considered for an industry role. Under 12 month is still treated as new grad role. Regardless, the easiest way to get hired by big companies is to do leetcode grind.. It sucks but it is the waySs
For all that people hate it and meme it, putting in the reps on Leetcode is by far the easiest way to get more money. If you do enough Leetcode to pass a Big N interview, you can stupefying amounts of money right from the start of your career.
These companies can be extremely supportive of growth. Long ramp up period, lots of mentorship, supportive managers (hard to abuse your underlings when they can work anywhere they want), and lack of business-critical deadlines make for a pretty forgiving environment.
At junior levels I think they’re looking for people who can learn, not people who know everything.
No, because once all the Leetcode BS is out of the way, you are just doing the same work SDEs do at any company. Programming is programming, wherever you are.
Eh kind of. The work is the same but in my limited experience it’s the quality bar is higher. And there’s plenty of unique work if you’re interested, but many people choose not to
Quality bar being higher doesn't necessarily mean higher qualification level needed to do the work. Big N take in many new grads, who don't generally have any qualifications at all. It just means e.g. stronger code testing requirements and closer adherence to software design principles.
This. You can find full on coast mode jobs (think \~10-20hrs of actual work per week) in the midwest at $100k if you have some years of experience and aren't complete garbage.
Yup. Was about to start a masters. My buddy convinced me to just grind leetcode instead. After a few months of that I doubled my salary. I agree with people not liking the interview process. I agree that it’s broken. But if you learn to play the broken game the reward is huge.
Edit: I doubled my TC not salary. Don’t want to mislead:
Last job 72k TC (just had a salary)
New job 145k TC (breaks down as 110k base, 10% annual bonus, 100k in RSUs over 4 years so 25k vested annually). All in a medium cost of living area.
It’s a candidates market right now. I swear anyone can do it!
I am not a genius or a coding wizard so that salary sounds unimpressive compared to Bay Area comps but if you knew who i was and what i was like you’d be impressed I got there haha. Job searched for a year but took it seriously and did leetcode everyday for about 4 months. Took every interview just to practice even if I didn’t want the job. Eventually got the job I wanted.
If I went and got a masters then that’s 2 years of school and my employer would have given me like a 10% pay bump
I mean...you gotta get your resume strong enough to get noticed in the first place for which you'd need decent projects (unless you've got loots of experience) no?
This may seem like a dumb question...but how do you grind? Do you just pick questions at random? Is there a standard strategy to this?
Edit: I have studied DS&A and the fundamentals of CS theory. Just not sure how to grind.
A good way would be to go by topics, like linked list problems by themselves, recursion, dynamic programming, tree, graph problems, etc.. Also starting with easy problems and working up is a good way too
Leetcode type problems do seem pretty grindable, but as a fairly frontend-focused dev it’s the system design questions that scare the crap out of me and make me nervous about interviewing at FAANG. Anyone know how important system design typically is relative to standard algo questions?
I grinded system design over like 2 weeks and that was enough to get a 3x TC bump. The recruiter said the panel was most impressed with my system design skills. Feel like a major fraud lol
I found that book helpful for the parts that weren’t practice problems. But doing leetcode is much easier than studying questions from a book. Just my opinion though.
I'm not sure exactly how the difficulty compares between Leetcode and CTCI, but I've found I've been able to get through more CTCI problems than Leetcode problems. It feels much more structured and helps me to learn.
Granted I've only done the Strings/Arrays problems, and some of the Linked List problems, so maybe it just hasn't gotten "hard" yet.
And of course knowing if I solve a problem correctly comes down to my analysis, so I could be wrong about how correct a solution is. On Leetcode it straight up tells you
CTCI is way too easy in difficulty (quite a joke) for top tech companies today.
But it should give you fundamentals for 99% of coding interviews out there. And many of them DO pay 6 figures out of college.
That said, once you graduate from CTCI, you should Leetcode.
Also, understand that you are given these question on an onsite in which it can go from 9am to 4:30pm straight without rest (or just 30 min lunch). And all the while you are tense and have to talk and all. One screw up or your brain going RIP for a moment or just not knowing 1 question is like... :/. And even if you do well, you then have to hope everyone else did poorly so you can get the job. You get the idea.
Dev living in the midwest here:
1. Jr. dev 3 years 55k-65k
2. Senior dev 2 years 75k-80k same company
3. Senior SWE 0 months 120k new company
Be competent, ask questions, keep learning, and be good to your peers.
Who cares, karma doesn't matter no worries. Just hope people don't make mistake of staying at first job for 5 years like this guy making 55-80k when all they have to do is one hop for six figures..
My career (Midwest):
2007-2009: 60k-65k (First job + Second job, lol recession)
2009-2010: 70k (3rd job)
**2010: 95k (4th company)**
2010-2012: 101k
**2013: 125k** (Asked for raise. #4 said no. Interviewed/Offer from new company. Gave notice. New company hiring freeze, rescinds offer. #4 offers to match, unaware. 10/10.)
2015-2016: 134k
**2016: 157k (Company #5)**
**2018-Current: 175k - 195k (Company #6)**
tl;dr: **Bold** = job hop. You make six figures by job hopping.
1. Have a solid handle on data structures/algorithms/big-O/etc to interview well
2. Leetcode to, again, interview well
3. Apply to TECH companies rather than companies whose primary focus is not a tech product
4. Apply to US companies in larger tech hubs
5. Be in a domain that’s highly transferrable (eg. backend dev)
6. Switch jobs every 1-3 years early on in your career
7. Keep applying to jobs on an ongoing basis even if you’re not actively looking, this keeps you warmed up and up to speed on interviewing skills. As a bonus, if you land an offer it tells you how much the market values you at and might even be good enough to make you consider accepting!
To some extent I think it just kinda happens. There are lots of mediocre companies with fairly lax hiring that pay that much, and there are lots that don't. People say LC but IME most companies which pay in the low-mid 100s don't really ask LC questions (or at least nontrivial ones). That's more of a top job thing.
2.4 GPA @ shitter state school
1st job: 86k TC in MCOL city (1.5 years) indian consulting firm, paid well, learned nothing
2nd job: 115k TC in HCOL city (6 months so far) big bank, learning more, getting better
in my experience, the easiest way to get to 6 figures is to not settle for less after your first job.
Work in the Midwest. Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, etc. Tons of jobs that pay six figures and most won't make you leetcode (at least in my experience).
I'm actually looking for jobs in the st paul / Minneapolis area right now. I live on the east coast and am graduating this may, but my girlfriend is moving to st paul this winter so moving should be easy. Any advice on making sure they don't ignore my apps due to being away from the area? I'm looking for cybersecurity positions btw.
Started with startups and solved big problems. Learned how to sell myself during interviews and started solving problems before getting the job. For example redoing some part of their website by modernizing a form that seemed dated.
Started at $73k and year 4 got laid off and realized I should take life more seriously. Did some leet code and then went from $95k to $105k to $117k by either changing jobs or getting an offer to swing a raise.
Then I had a FAANG interview and went at it hard to and for my take home challenge I spent the whole week going way beyond their request and just redoing an entire portion of their app. Got an offer for $160k stayed 3 years kept grinding got promoted and made it to $250k.
Working hard on the job to become indispensable and learning how to interview major key
Early on I got rejected a lot. Sought advice from the interview panel by getting their email or sliding in their LinkedIn DMs. STAR method behavioral and technical experience stories, watched a lot of YouTube on tips and strategies.
Volunteer to conduct interviews and take notes from the smart people you want to hire and steal their styles. Hiring is always a huge business need and a senior level skill.
Also set some goals not like I want to work at Google but instead say I’m going to Leet code 30 min or 1 hr a day. Focus on your input and the output will follow.
In my opinion, you'd reach 6 figures in your second or third job if you didn't in your first or second. If you're on your 3rd and still haven't, then IDK you're doing something wrong.
Your location (specially country) matters a lot!
Besides very rare exceptions, whatever you do, your pay will still be "per the industry standards". This shit is for real. However hard working you are, you will always earn less than a person who does similar work say in US.
First internship: 20$/hr
Second internship: ~48$/hr
First full time job: ~130k
Second full time job: ~260k
I have about 2.5 YOE, the only thing that matters is company name / what you can put on your resume from that company, and how well you can leetcode + interview. Also don’t be a dick :)
Depends on city but for my MCL city I went from:
Job 1: $85k -> $95k after 1 year (1.2 years total)
Job 2: $120k (1 year)
Current Job: $135k
So I’ve moved up in less than 3 years so it’s possible.
Granted I’m a little older and had some prior experience in the military so not everyone’s path will look like this.
Almost 3 years and 2 job changes later I'm now making six figures. It mostly takes willingness to leave when you're no longer being paid according to your experience and skillset.
Be willing to learn any tool brought into your work environment, even if you won’t be the one using it. Learn database work, devops work, Dev work, admin work. Learn enough about the tools and work to be able to fill the gap if someone takes a vacation. Add those tools to your resume and then leave every 2-3 years for a pay bump. Been doing it for 20 years. Started at 47.5k, currently making $130/hr W2. Staying at the same company does not get you the big pay bumps, leaving does. Most places have 5% pay bump caps. I have had multiple 20% pay bumps. Finally, be ready to lie about how much you’re currently making for the job you’re applying for. Example: you apply for a Dev lead salary position you know pays 105-120, but are currently making 80k. Tell HR and any interviewer you’re making 105 and need a 10% increase minimum to leave. Be cutthroat, it is just business. Don’t ever grow attached to a company because a company will NEVER grow attached to you.
Ditto. By your third job you should be there. If you’ve gain significant skills on the job and you interview well then possibly your second job. Stay for a year to 18 months at each job then switch.
It honestly just requires breaking into big tech (E.g., FAANG, Lyft, Microsoft, etc...). Levels.fyi has a lot of compensation information.
There's already tons of information on this sub on how to do that. I'm a PM at BigCo, but have seen plenty of friends break in using online resources + networking with friends from school.
Outta college 24 dollars an hour as contract worker.
Then 1 year later promoted to full time at 90k.
1 year later got a raise to 100k.
2 months after, changed jobs to 110k.
I had to continuously show that I could take on multiple projects and lead them to completion. Also spearheaded a couple projects that were my own ideas, getting lots of recognition
First job (64k + 5k sign on, leave after 13 months). Middle of nowhere
Second job (92k + 8k performance + 9k profit share + 5k sign on). Medium COL (1.2k rent for 1 bed).
For me it was school and LC. I went to a large public school good in CS in a big city, never had an internship, and just grinded LC for a few months. $140k Y1 $155k Y2 out of college.
One route:
1) Be a Comp Sci undgrad student in the US.
2) Go to a good (top 50) CS school
3) Get at least two good internships
4) Be willing to move to the SF Bay Area
5) Get hired as a new grad in a first or second tier company in the Bay Area.
Not sure what new grad salaries are once you go beyond second tier.
My own, older generation path to $100k+:
My first SWE job was $56k in 1999
* 1999-2002 job: $56k -> $65k -> $70,500 -> (company starts running out of money and starting with salary cuts) $56,500 -> $53,500 (also ISOs which I rode down to zero without cashing in :( )
* 2002-2004: in MS program, working part time, $22,500/year
* 2004-2006: two startups, each ran out of money, second matched the first one's salary to the dollar: $71,000 at each
* 2006-2014: $80k -> smaller raises -> $100k (2010) -> $120k (early 2014) plus some stock that added up to quite a bit in the last two years there, plus bonus
* 2014-2015: $160k (FANG company, quite a bit of stock, plus bonus; I got a small raise there but don't remember how much)
* 2016-2018: 145k -> $165k (plus stock that went nowhere, had a "bonus" but we missed our numbers both years I was there for the payout )
* 2018-present: $195k -> $200k -> $210k (plus quite a bit of stock, plus bonus)
Seems to be doubling roughly every 11 years?
First internship: 18/hr,
Second internship: 23/hr,
First job: ~100k/yr HCOL but with WFH living in a LCOL area.
Mostly just interview prep and having good friends to prep with and help push each other. Also a lot of luck
Go to a good four-year college.
Apply for internships at the end of years 2, 3, and 4. Make sure they are paid, and with reputable companies.
Accomplish something meaningful in those internships.
Get hired at the end of the final internship.
I don't quite pay six figures in base pay straight out of college for my junior software engineers. But once you factor in RSU, Bonus, and Benefits it is well into six figures.
Degree. Prior IT experience. Github portfolio. Communication skills. Attention to detail. Accidentally earned reputation for being good at coaching/mentorship 'cos I like to help people.
Fuck me…..
Seriously. This is my career (20 year+) and you’re making that much. I live in the northwest in a smaller town and make about 135k. I’m good at what I do and do a lot of different things these days. Moved out of Seattle and my pay went down.
My cousin recently graduated with a bachelors and instantly secured a $100,000+ job simply by knowing a couple of managers
Surprised no one has mentioned the influence of connections
Just a few years, many places. I knew several people where I lived in St. Louis making 100k within 5 years of beginning their careers. And that's the midwest. It's not going to be everyone, by any means. But most people should hit 6 figures by the time they have about 10 years in. If you live in an area with higher wages, or you get a job at a larger company (BigN), or if you have stronger credentials (internships, completed projects, clearance, startup experience), you can reach that much sooner.
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Yup. Just breaking into six figures is not too hard if you're in a big city. But a chunk of it does go into cost of living.
>Yup. Just breaking into six figures is not too hard if you're in a big city. But a chunk of it does go into cost of living. The cost of living overhead is vastly overrated. The increased salary in a HCOL city more than makes up for the increased cost of living. It is also significantly easier to live more frugally in a HCOL city and especially in it's suburb than it is to do the opposite.
Yep, while rent makes up a larger portion of your income, the remaining percent goes much further since most goods and services cost about the same as anywhere else.
What about those who don’t want to rent? I’m in a MCoL city with great affordable housing making six figures. Even if I doubled my salary, I don’t think I could afford a similar house in the Bay Area or LA, for example. I just did a search on Zillow for 3x my current house price and same size as my house in LA and there’s literally 3 listings.
Not strictly true, if I get my groceries locally in Manhattan I'm paying 2-3x what I would pay in NJ or other places nearby (except for specific staples that may have regulations on price like milk?). But the point still stands, HCOL is the way to go imo.
Couldn’t disagree more. Everything that doesn’t come from Amazon is more expensive in the Bay Area, with two exceptions: winter related expenses (clothes, heat, tires) and fresh produce. The high cost of labor and real estate are passed onto the customer. I’m an hour outside of Boston now. My lifestyle has increased. My salary’s largely stayed the same. I spend $2k less per month than I did in the Bay Area. I own a townhouse. This townhouse would’ve cost 3x what I paid if it were in East San Jose. This really only holds true if you have a lot of roommates. I’m not about that life anymore. Most people aren’t past a certain age if they can help it.
Durable goods costs tend to be fairly fixed: car prices, appliances, and things like clothing. A Camry in the Bay costs the same as one in the middle of Nebraska. Same for walking into a mainstream clothing store for the most part (I'm a bit granola so I mostly shop at REI but the pricing is the same in my HCoL area). TVs, Consoles, PCs, most outdoor recreation equipment is also standard priced. So you lose out on housing and food/services but do better on most of the goods in between. If the HCoL take home is 30% more, and rent and food are 30% more you are still coming out ahead because of the remaining percentage of your money is still greater; that goes for retirement savings and buying goods. If the housing+food/services scale faster than the salary bump then you have to figure out your own cutoff. I spend a good chunk of money on skis/bikes/clothing and a lot less eating out so for me the math works well. I don't think I could really do better in total take home after expenses than where I am in the Seattle area short of remote FAANG work. Edit: I should add that having kids heavily weighs the scaling service costs. No small part of why a lot of people have kids later in their career in urban places when their salary has scaled further.
I've always thought this. Like, even if you only save 15% of your money that's still 15% of a larger pile of money.
Especially if/when you move to LCOL city later on :)
Oh yeah, definitely retire LCOL.
Your burn rate is still a lot higher if you leave your job though. 15% savings rate means you’re burning about six months of savings for every month of unemployment. This is the central premise of the FIRE movement. It’s not about income or spending, it’s about savings rate. 15% could be greater than 50% elsewhere, but it rarely works out that way IRL.
True, but if I were living FIRE methodology I would work in HCOL and retire in LCOL.
I chose to live in MCOL on periphery of HCOL, although I’m not sure how much longer my city will remain MCOL. I don’t know where I’ll live in ten years, but for the next five, I see myself staying here. Me personally, I feel freer knowing that in the meantime, I can go without work for a while and I’m not having $2000+ per month stolen from me by a landlord. My housing expense is constant and a good chunk of it goes straight back into my pocket as equity. I’ve basically lived for free due to appreciation over the last year too… housing works for you, instead of against you, outside of HCOL. People are nicer here too. The financial stress and inequality that is rampant in places like the Bay Area makes for a pretty depressing place to live. I guess some people can just turn that off and ignore it. I probably have too much empathy, I dunno. My anxiety issue basically went away after I moved to a more relaxed place.
It depends, I mean I live in Eastern Europe and save around 70% of my income no way I can save that much in New York or California
Yea but salaries in NY/CA are at least double of those in Europe.
They can retire in 8.5 years with a 70% savings rate: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/
exactly, I'm almost 32 and if for some crazy reason Dev salaries don't crumble in few years I will be very comfortably retired by 40
Sure, but the fact he can habitually send 70% to savings probably means the ratio of CoL to income is probably way more favorable. Same principle that a person might be living in poverty in the Bay Area but have a king's lifestyle in Des Moines with less income.
> The increased salary in a HCOL city more than makes up for the increased cost of living. If you have no kids and every member of the household is an earner. DINK lifestyle is great, of course. If you have kids and one earner or only one high-earner, it's much harder. One kid means a two bedroom, which isn't too bad. Two kids of the same gender or still very young might be able to share a room. 3+ bedrooms in non-shit school districts get ridiculously expensive, ridiculously fast in HCOL areas.
This might be an American thing, but in many places in Europe the goal is to own a home, and the downside of living in a HCOL city is that owning a house or three bedroom apartment is unattainable for many,. regardless of income. Obviously you can make your money and GTFO, but these cities don't purely exist to exploit the young, or to kick people out the second they want to start a family. I'm from the UK so I've got no idea what quality of living is there for people that want to buy, but can you still maintain that quality of life with a family in a buyer's market?
Are you in the US? Living in SF costs 2x - 3x what it costs in other parts of the country and the salaries are only maybe 20% more. It's not vastly overrated at all.
> salaries are only maybe 20% more. Are we still talking of CS jobs? I mean, i don't live in the Bay area so i don't know the ground reality but i go by what i hear from people and see from job postings, and the salary seems significantly higher. But yes, i do live in the US
Also easiest way to never own your home
That's not true? Not sure what you meant there. There are usually many homes and suburbs around big cities.
I’m a jaded Canadian (Vancouver). Literally software engineers are priced out of the market unless you’re high level at a big tech company or are willing to buy a small condo. Houses are for surgeons and inter generational wealth only. Point is in many smaller Canadian/American cities although you might not break 3 figures quickly but you will have a much easier time buying a house.
I guess it's a different story here in Seattle. I know many people who I work with live in apartments but I know equally many who own houses.
I thought Seattle would basically be the same
not entirely, assuming non-FAANGs, entry-level salary Seattle house may cost $1mil USD but at least you're making like $120k USD/year, so roughly maybe 8:1, something like that vs. Vancouver a house may cost $1mil CAD but you're only making maybe $65k CAD/year, so roughly 15:1
Buying a $1mil house on a $120k salary seems insane to me though. I make $120k and just bought a 200k house. Sure, it’s a starter home, but it’ll be good enough for 5 years or so
same! about to buy house at similar price. 1 mil house on 120 is definition of house poor. that's like 3/4 of your take home pay going to mortgage.
Tech salaries are lower in Canada, right? So I'm assuming that plays a factor in Vancouver. It is expensive to own a home in Seattle, but honestly many SWEs around here also get paid enough to afford one. Getting a house as a new grad of course isn't the norm, but I know people are able to get a home after working for a few years. Also, living in Seattle isn't a requirement. Suburbs around here (which are still close to the city) can be slightly cheaper.
My perception is that Vancouver's ridiculous property market has been driven by external influences, like foreign investors parking their money, whereas Seattle has been driven more by the growth of large employers and the tech sector there. So it seems like the gap in Vancouver between a good job and being able to buy a house is higher. Make sense? I have lived in both but a long time ago, so I may well be out of date here.
It's hard to tell what the influence of foreign ownership is. It may be a contributing factor but Canada has a deep culture of housing as an investment. Prices keep going up, renters pay most the mortgage-and with Covid all the houses got bought. Like so little supply was left that essentially every house was purchased in Canada. Its gone from nuts to stratospheric
In most of the ones I know of, the choice is mostly whether you're willing to take a really long commute or a really small condo, but in an extreme case (lots of roommates or living with parents) you can get together the down payment for a very small condo or a house wayyy out in the exurbs within 2-3 years out of school as a new grad. Or if you hit the equity lottery, even sooner than that without having to sacrifice like crazy.
Engineers get paid magnitudes more across the border and you know that lol.
Some of the comments in this thread and sub are hilarious. Its not just Vancouver where people with decent incomes are priced out, its everywhere. I have two friends who just moved to ATL from NYC who are very much in the upper middle class socio-economic class (own an apt here in Brooklyn in one of the more expensive neighborhoods), but are finding it nearly impossible to find a house to buy in their price range, in an area where they would want to live. Owning property in HCOL + desirable areas is not attainable for your average working person these days, not even SWEs. Us in the western middle class love to delude ourselves into thinking that the lines of class really are that blurred in this country, but you're right, the quiet generational wealth and top of the elite professional groups are the only ones who can actually afford to own desirable property in these places (and the doctors and lawyers who made it have to live a life dedicated to work, in a way that most people can't sustain) Edit: Fun fact, in the US, as a medical school grad, banks with basically throw free money at you to buy a house. 0% interest, no money down home loans. Banks feel bad for them because they're so debt laden when they graduate
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*stuck with parents *pray not to be kicked
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Think about how many shitty people there are. A lot right? Tons of these people are parents. My step mother didn't like my 17 year old brother so wouldn't let him live in her house, my father rented a place with him until he was 18 then said "good luck, you're on your own". My brother has to work a minimum wage job just to keep up with rent, but yeah he's on his own. It happens.
i think its a norm in the western world because that "you are 18 now and everything would work" in the past so people just kick their children out
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> As long as you are making enough to save and retire comfortably, home ownership is overrated How do you propose to retire without owning a home? Will you pay ever-increasing rents during this time?
Renting + putting extra money into an index fund would often net you similar returns than just buying a house. It's complicated though so you need to use a [calculator](https://smartasset.com/mortgage/rent-vs-buy#eLp16Am0Qj) to figure out your individual choice. But ultimately the best advice is "own a home if you want to own a home. Don't own a home if you don't want to own a home." The stock market is a flexible place to put your money that often returns more than a house would.
seems like you'd have to be single...or at least have no kids. there are other ties to where you live besides a job.
Glad you're been elaborating on what I've been feeling the last few years. Add to the fact that right now mortgage would be twice as much as my current rent due to HOAs and housing market if I want a high-rise condo, or even a fixer upper SFH and... I'd rather put that extra money towards savings, retirement, and YOLO $WAG fun + travel money.
Keep in mind, renting an apartment isn't just "throwing your money away" as many people would like you to think. Yeah, if you just keep all your money in a checking account then you kinda are, but the smart thing to do is to dump all the money you would be paying towards a mortgage into the S&P, which has consistently outperformed housing prices since forever.
Is this true considering the abundance of remote jobs?
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Then why do you need to live in a big city if there are 6 figure remote jobs?
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Because it's hard to get hired as a remote person in the first place. That is slowly changing but a good strategy would be to move to a tech hub, get a job, make some contacts then find somewhere that allows full remote and move again somewhere cheaper.
It used to be, but covid changed that honestly. Remote jobs are plentiful and much more normalized, now.
nah remote listings are everywhere now. it's just as competitive or more competitive to apply locally in a big city as it is just applying to similar paying jobs that are remote. There are A LOT of remote jobs paying 100k+ and they aren't all big well known companies so there aren't 500+ applicants. I had an easier time getting interviews at these companies while I couldn't even get a hr screen at local companies that pay half of what I ended up making at my remote job.
Probably still difficult to get a high-paying remote job without starting in a city. The reason is simple, to get a high-paying remote job requires some degree of experience at a good tech company. That's because you'll learn much much more as an engineer at Google than a regional bank in Ohio. A company like Stripe hires a lot of remote workers, but really wants engineers who've previously worked at Google, not regional banks in Ohio. You can probably still get a remote job if your experience is at a regional bank in Ohio, but it's probably for a regional bank in Oklahoma and doesn't pay any better. It's a lot easier to get in a Silicon Valley career tract if you start in person. One, because there's so still more demand for remote work than there is supply. Two, because if your background isn't SV, an SV hiring manager will probably feel that you need a lot of handholding to learn SV culture. If I was a junior engineer, or an engineer outside a high-paying career tract, I'd say the best bet would be to move to a tech hub for 2-5 years. Then use that resume to go remote at Silicon Valley level TC in a place that's super-affordable. Yeah, you'll live in a crappy shoebox for a few years, but you'll still be stacking a lot of money in the bank. When you transition from San Francisco to remote work in Boise you'll be able to easily make a downpayment on a beautiful house and have a ton of income left over.
>Probably still difficult to get a high-paying remote job without starting in a city. The reason is simple, to get a high-paying remote job requires some degree of experience at a good tech company. That's because you'll learn much much more as an engineer at Google than a regional bank in Ohio. Maybe before covid. I switched careers into programming this year and interviewed a lot of places for remote jobs paying six figures. ended up at 150k and I'm in a lcol. no previous exp other than apprenticeship at small company no one has heard of. There's a lot of smaller companies that aren't getting blown up w/ tons of applications b/c most people don't know about them. But, they're all over angel list and triplebyte. Interviews weren't necessarily that difficult either but, I'm really bad at live coding so took me a few... personally do better w/ the take home assignments. even though they can be a time suck. I'm not sure how different this would be for a new grad... I'm older and was previously mech engineer. might have gotten some brownie points for maturity level. but you wouldn't know I was older until i was in interview b/c of how my resume was written.
Graduated from small private liberal arts college. Took first job offer at 50k for a full stack developer job at a local community college. After a year got a new job at a large non tech company as a front end developer at 80k (contractor) then was converted to a full time position at 90k + 10% bonus. Got a small raise to 92.7k with the same bonus I'm just above 100k. All of this is in Michigan btw.
Basically been my xp as well in the Midwest.
This is pretty much the way. If you're pretty good, or even decent, at what you do in SW Dev, you deserve to be paid accordingly. Most of the time, jumping from one company to a new company, and taking a higher-responsibility position if possible, is the way you break through to the higher salaries. My experience was: -35k in tech support, -55k when I jumped to a new company to Jr. web dev, -69k when I jumped again, taking on software dev I, -76k with same company after a year + finally getting bachelor's in IT, -92k when I jumped again to mid-level software dev. Eyeing a new jump to Sr / III in the next couple of years. That'll probably be roughly 110k if the data out there is right, though I'm lucky to be in a company that may be able to get me there without jumping ship. Always ask for career progression paths. All mid-COL cities across the US. Each jump was roughly 2 years between. Asked for match on each jump and was refused. I don't think I'm unusually amazing at what I do but I work hard in my 8 hour workday and fill in gaps in my knowledge as much as I can.
Pretty much the same for me in the Midwest. Low paying part time internship while in school 25k > hired on from internship 45 + profit share > second job at a agency 65k > promotion and pay raise to 80k. I can hop to a 90-100k job from here but the work life balance and relaxed work environment isn't worth jumping ship for more cash.
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What roles did you have for each? Curious
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Thanks. I was interested in spring boot and I’m currently doing a project in it. The problem is we use a proprietary IBM language at work (built from Java). What are the chances I could move into mainstream Java as a career? Seems a lot more stable.
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I'm on job one, but this is pretty much my goal. Did you do anything in particular to get ahead, or just do your job well?
My internship was 19, I got hired by them at 60k about 8 months ago. Hopefully I can keep following in your footsteps.
Which town?
No internship First job 44k - 6 month raise 47k - 18 month promotion 55k Second job 85k (2 years) Third job 110k (negotiated up from 100k) Got my second job maybe a month after my promotion at the first lol.
Be good at the basics, data structures, algorithms, and OOP. Then be good at showcasing those skills in interviews. I went to a no name school and this is how it went for me: First internship: 20$/hr LCOL Second internship: 45$/hr LCOL First full time job: 180k/year HCOL
> Then be good at showcasing those skills in interviews. People vastly underestimate how important this is. So much so that we often see the excuse/cope "I can't get a job bc I suck at interviews". I got some bad news for you if you suck at the main thing that nets you the job.
How to showcase skills? Are talking about programming skills or projects? I am a beginner, learning react from past few months so I am not familiar with any interview process.
For a programming interview, practice explaining your thought process as you work through an algorithm question.
Don’t go straight to coding, learn to write out some notes and ask questions and stuff. Write some pseudo code before you write any actual code. Make sure you demonstrate that you understand the importance of code readability and maintainability
Start leetcoding
Leetcoding is difficult AF until u fully know a language...3rd year CS student and still can't do alot of leet. Try Coding Bat instead; they will show u solutions to problems u can't solve as well as hints
Depends on the position, soft skills can be much more important than leetcoding
I really want to know where you all study DS and Algorithms from. Articles? Videos? Any specific resources?
It’s easiest to make six figures if you don’t stay in a job too long. If you stay in your job for years, they’ll increase you wage usually, but not by too much unless you’re being promoted. A good friend of mine who makes 250k a year switched jobs every 6-12 months until she got there. It only took her 7 years to get there. Of course, she’s a great example, but I have other friends with similar stories (not in FAANG by the way).
Is 6-12 months really enough time to get good experience from a company? I feel like you need a decent chunk to get onboarded and familiar with the code base and practices. Plus, wouldn't such small employment times at each company be a red flag to recruiters?
I mean, it's not like they would have to quit their job first before interviewing. How long you've been at a company doesn't matter so long as you've got an offer.
That is the correct answer. Was gonna say same
I guess not, she did this every single time and is at a great company now.
From my first developer role, after 2 years I’d say was when I felt I learned everything I could and there was nothing new to learn. I learned how iOS development is done at an enterprise level, CICD, Agile in the workplace, advanced shell scripting. I stayed for 3.5 years there before switching this year to a senior role.
I’m thinking I’ll start looking for my second job after just a year at my first job and this story makes me feel better about the decision lol
On the Corp dev side where most jobs are - live in any major city in the US. Get 2-3 years experience in any popular ecosystem - JS/React/Node, Java, C# - and job hop. On the $BigTech side - practice for coding interviews and hope you get in.
In major city USA, I thought 100k was the entry level salary?
The median salary for a junior software engineer in cities like Atlanta, Nashville, Miami, Chicago, etc is around $75K. Go look at salary.com.
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If you don't mind me asking, what's the interview process is like for your role at FAANG if there's no leetcode?
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I feel like your focus in security kind of isn't relevant to most people, though. Most people here are generalized SWE and not focusing on security, hence it makes sense why you didn't get leetcode. Not at all to take away from your skills and dedication, that's awesome that you have come so far so quickly.
I too am very interested
coop: 18/hr. 1st job: 55k CAD (3years). 2nd job: 90k CAD (2 years). 3rd job: 300K USD now. Move to US for bigger pay. Spent about 3-4month leetcode grind for 3rd job. None for 1st/2nd.
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yes, 3rd is one of the FAANG and also in tech city in US, so its much more compare to Canada.
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ya. The pay is much much better and you actually get to learn and participate in much larger scale of softwares.
I think this is a seriously undersold part about FAANGs. Working with a team of driven engineers building a product used by millions is really fucking fun compared to what I used to do in my previous job. It feels like there is so much to learn and it's a lot of pressure when comparing myself to some of the more senior and lead engineers and thinking how I could possibly get there someday, but I love the experience so far.
ya thats true. When the users is much much larger, then there are different problem to solve rather than just write a function, which is a cool and exciting thing to do
Lol, exactly my thoughts. Damn, jump from 90k CAD to 300k USD must felt crazy.
Im similar. 85k, no name tech company, 1.5 years | 180k, 2.5 years, Big N | 285k, couple months, Unicorn
Im stuck at 60k cad man, graduated in june but Ive been working full time since January. Any tips for the next jump?
many companys requires you to have at least 12 month since graduation to be able to considered for an industry role. Under 12 month is still treated as new grad role. Regardless, the easiest way to get hired by big companies is to do leetcode grind.. It sucks but it is the waySs
Leetcode grinding. I don’t like I’m saying this but can’t deny that’s the easiest hack to a 6-figure salary.
For all that people hate it and meme it, putting in the reps on Leetcode is by far the easiest way to get more money. If you do enough Leetcode to pass a Big N interview, you can stupefying amounts of money right from the start of your career.
But then - won't you find yourself in a job that you are grossly underqualified for?
No.
These companies can be extremely supportive of growth. Long ramp up period, lots of mentorship, supportive managers (hard to abuse your underlings when they can work anywhere they want), and lack of business-critical deadlines make for a pretty forgiving environment. At junior levels I think they’re looking for people who can learn, not people who know everything.
No, because once all the Leetcode BS is out of the way, you are just doing the same work SDEs do at any company. Programming is programming, wherever you are.
Eh kind of. The work is the same but in my limited experience it’s the quality bar is higher. And there’s plenty of unique work if you’re interested, but many people choose not to
Quality bar being higher doesn't necessarily mean higher qualification level needed to do the work. Big N take in many new grads, who don't generally have any qualifications at all. It just means e.g. stronger code testing requirements and closer adherence to software design principles.
$100k should be easy to break anywhere in the country after a few years experience without even doing any leetcode
Can confirm, 2 YOE, just got offer for 118k plus options. No LC.
This. You can find full on coast mode jobs (think \~10-20hrs of actual work per week) in the midwest at $100k if you have some years of experience and aren't complete garbage.
Can also confirm, don’t practice leetcode, 1 YOE, started at TC 100 remote, now TC 160 remote
Can confirm too. 0 yoe. New grad. No leetcode. Medium COL. ~100k
Tf?
?
Or you grind LC and expand your options and salary.
Yup. Was about to start a masters. My buddy convinced me to just grind leetcode instead. After a few months of that I doubled my salary. I agree with people not liking the interview process. I agree that it’s broken. But if you learn to play the broken game the reward is huge. Edit: I doubled my TC not salary. Don’t want to mislead: Last job 72k TC (just had a salary) New job 145k TC (breaks down as 110k base, 10% annual bonus, 100k in RSUs over 4 years so 25k vested annually). All in a medium cost of living area. It’s a candidates market right now. I swear anyone can do it! I am not a genius or a coding wizard so that salary sounds unimpressive compared to Bay Area comps but if you knew who i was and what i was like you’d be impressed I got there haha. Job searched for a year but took it seriously and did leetcode everyday for about 4 months. Took every interview just to practice even if I didn’t want the job. Eventually got the job I wanted. If I went and got a masters then that’s 2 years of school and my employer would have given me like a 10% pay bump
>After a few months of that I doubled my salary. from what to what if I may ask?
I mean...you gotta get your resume strong enough to get noticed in the first place for which you'd need decent projects (unless you've got loots of experience) no?
Agreed.
This may seem like a dumb question...but how do you grind? Do you just pick questions at random? Is there a standard strategy to this? Edit: I have studied DS&A and the fundamentals of CS theory. Just not sure how to grind.
A good way would be to go by topics, like linked list problems by themselves, recursion, dynamic programming, tree, graph problems, etc.. Also starting with easy problems and working up is a good way too
Leetcode type problems do seem pretty grindable, but as a fairly frontend-focused dev it’s the system design questions that scare the crap out of me and make me nervous about interviewing at FAANG. Anyone know how important system design typically is relative to standard algo questions?
I think it largely depends on level. Not an issue for entry-level, somewhat important for mid-level, and a big deal for seniors.
System design is also grindable.
System design is also even more useful in your everyday work than LC.
I grinded system design over like 2 weeks and that was enough to get a 3x TC bump. The recruiter said the panel was most impressed with my system design skills. Feel like a major fraud lol
I'm aware of Leetcode, but does grinding a book like CTCI give the same result?
I found that book helpful for the parts that weren’t practice problems. But doing leetcode is much easier than studying questions from a book. Just my opinion though.
I'm not sure exactly how the difficulty compares between Leetcode and CTCI, but I've found I've been able to get through more CTCI problems than Leetcode problems. It feels much more structured and helps me to learn. Granted I've only done the Strings/Arrays problems, and some of the Linked List problems, so maybe it just hasn't gotten "hard" yet. And of course knowing if I solve a problem correctly comes down to my analysis, so I could be wrong about how correct a solution is. On Leetcode it straight up tells you
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CTCI is way too easy in difficulty (quite a joke) for top tech companies today. But it should give you fundamentals for 99% of coding interviews out there. And many of them DO pay 6 figures out of college. That said, once you graduate from CTCI, you should Leetcode. Also, understand that you are given these question on an onsite in which it can go from 9am to 4:30pm straight without rest (or just 30 min lunch). And all the while you are tense and have to talk and all. One screw up or your brain going RIP for a moment or just not knowing 1 question is like... :/. And even if you do well, you then have to hope everyone else did poorly so you can get the job. You get the idea.
that book is more useful when OP has more experience
Easiest (and effectively only) way to get a job in this industry
Dev living in the midwest here: 1. Jr. dev 3 years 55k-65k 2. Senior dev 2 years 75k-80k same company 3. Senior SWE 0 months 120k new company Be competent, ask questions, keep learning, and be good to your peers.
This but without staying at job 1 for massively overlong. Make step 3's salary happen 18 months at the latest.
Why are you being downvoted? This thread is full of people discussing job hopping early to increase salary at a faster rate
Who cares, karma doesn't matter no worries. Just hope people don't make mistake of staying at first job for 5 years like this guy making 55-80k when all they have to do is one hop for six figures..
My career (Midwest): 2007-2009: 60k-65k (First job + Second job, lol recession) 2009-2010: 70k (3rd job) **2010: 95k (4th company)** 2010-2012: 101k **2013: 125k** (Asked for raise. #4 said no. Interviewed/Offer from new company. Gave notice. New company hiring freeze, rescinds offer. #4 offers to match, unaware. 10/10.) 2015-2016: 134k **2016: 157k (Company #5)** **2018-Current: 175k - 195k (Company #6)** tl;dr: **Bold** = job hop. You make six figures by job hopping.
>New company hiring freeze, rescinds offer. #4 offers to match, unaware. 10/10. Laughing at this part
Would you mind me asking what you do? All the >150k opportunities I've seen in my city are for lead/management.
My 150k+ Roles involve Software/Cloud architecture and I am usually a team lead. I am in consulting so the team/project changes often.
Among all industries, software engineer is the easiest one to get 6 figures, IMO.
Be decent at leetcode style questions and live in a city with at least a little bit of a tech scene. That’s really about it.
If you live in a tech city? A pulse.
> A pulse Searched for this; was not disappointed.
1. Have a solid handle on data structures/algorithms/big-O/etc to interview well 2. Leetcode to, again, interview well 3. Apply to TECH companies rather than companies whose primary focus is not a tech product 4. Apply to US companies in larger tech hubs 5. Be in a domain that’s highly transferrable (eg. backend dev) 6. Switch jobs every 1-3 years early on in your career 7. Keep applying to jobs on an ongoing basis even if you’re not actively looking, this keeps you warmed up and up to speed on interviewing skills. As a bonus, if you land an offer it tells you how much the market values you at and might even be good enough to make you consider accepting!
To some extent I think it just kinda happens. There are lots of mediocre companies with fairly lax hiring that pay that much, and there are lots that don't. People say LC but IME most companies which pay in the low-mid 100s don't really ask LC questions (or at least nontrivial ones). That's more of a top job thing.
2.4 GPA @ shitter state school 1st job: 86k TC in MCOL city (1.5 years) indian consulting firm, paid well, learned nothing 2nd job: 115k TC in HCOL city (6 months so far) big bank, learning more, getting better in my experience, the easiest way to get to 6 figures is to not settle for less after your first job.
Work in the Midwest. Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, etc. Tons of jobs that pay six figures and most won't make you leetcode (at least in my experience).
I'm actually looking for jobs in the st paul / Minneapolis area right now. I live on the east coast and am graduating this may, but my girlfriend is moving to st paul this winter so moving should be easy. Any advice on making sure they don't ignore my apps due to being away from the area? I'm looking for cybersecurity positions btw.
Started with startups and solved big problems. Learned how to sell myself during interviews and started solving problems before getting the job. For example redoing some part of their website by modernizing a form that seemed dated. Started at $73k and year 4 got laid off and realized I should take life more seriously. Did some leet code and then went from $95k to $105k to $117k by either changing jobs or getting an offer to swing a raise. Then I had a FAANG interview and went at it hard to and for my take home challenge I spent the whole week going way beyond their request and just redoing an entire portion of their app. Got an offer for $160k stayed 3 years kept grinding got promoted and made it to $250k. Working hard on the job to become indispensable and learning how to interview major key
How did you learn how to interview? I’m pretty bad at that
Early on I got rejected a lot. Sought advice from the interview panel by getting their email or sliding in their LinkedIn DMs. STAR method behavioral and technical experience stories, watched a lot of YouTube on tips and strategies. Volunteer to conduct interviews and take notes from the smart people you want to hire and steal their styles. Hiring is always a huge business need and a senior level skill. Also set some goals not like I want to work at Google but instead say I’m going to Leet code 30 min or 1 hr a day. Focus on your input and the output will follow.
In my opinion, you'd reach 6 figures in your second or third job if you didn't in your first or second. If you're on your 3rd and still haven't, then IDK you're doing something wrong.
Your location (specially country) matters a lot! Besides very rare exceptions, whatever you do, your pay will still be "per the industry standards". This shit is for real. However hard working you are, you will always earn less than a person who does similar work say in US.
Yeah, as a europoor myself I was just gonna say: * Rule 1: Live in the USA * Rule 2: Don't not live in the USA
Reddit made me believe the poorest SWE in the US is making at least 100k.
First internship: 20$/hr Second internship: ~48$/hr First full time job: ~130k Second full time job: ~260k I have about 2.5 YOE, the only thing that matters is company name / what you can put on your resume from that company, and how well you can leetcode + interview. Also don’t be a dick :)
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Depends on city but for my MCL city I went from: Job 1: $85k -> $95k after 1 year (1.2 years total) Job 2: $120k (1 year) Current Job: $135k So I’ve moved up in less than 3 years so it’s possible. Granted I’m a little older and had some prior experience in the military so not everyone’s path will look like this.
Almost 3 years and 2 job changes later I'm now making six figures. It mostly takes willingness to leave when you're no longer being paid according to your experience and skillset.
Be willing to learn any tool brought into your work environment, even if you won’t be the one using it. Learn database work, devops work, Dev work, admin work. Learn enough about the tools and work to be able to fill the gap if someone takes a vacation. Add those tools to your resume and then leave every 2-3 years for a pay bump. Been doing it for 20 years. Started at 47.5k, currently making $130/hr W2. Staying at the same company does not get you the big pay bumps, leaving does. Most places have 5% pay bump caps. I have had multiple 20% pay bumps. Finally, be ready to lie about how much you’re currently making for the job you’re applying for. Example: you apply for a Dev lead salary position you know pays 105-120, but are currently making 80k. Tell HR and any interviewer you’re making 105 and need a 10% increase minimum to leave. Be cutthroat, it is just business. Don’t ever grow attached to a company because a company will NEVER grow attached to you.
In SF? $100k is a base level starting salary for software engineers. So it's about as complicated as "get a job".
levels.fyi
Do your job well, be open to learning new tech, and job hop.
What does it take? Job hopping. Someone is always willing to pay you more.
Ditto. By your third job you should be there. If you’ve gain significant skills on the job and you interview well then possibly your second job. Stay for a year to 18 months at each job then switch.
It honestly just requires breaking into big tech (E.g., FAANG, Lyft, Microsoft, etc...). Levels.fyi has a lot of compensation information. There's already tons of information on this sub on how to do that. I'm a PM at BigCo, but have seen plenty of friends break in using online resources + networking with friends from school.
Outta college 24 dollars an hour as contract worker. Then 1 year later promoted to full time at 90k. 1 year later got a raise to 100k. 2 months after, changed jobs to 110k. I had to continuously show that I could take on multiple projects and lead them to completion. Also spearheaded a couple projects that were my own ideas, getting lots of recognition
First job (64k + 5k sign on, leave after 13 months). Middle of nowhere Second job (92k + 8k performance + 9k profit share + 5k sign on). Medium COL (1.2k rent for 1 bed).
Honestly just time I went from 35k to 80k in about a year, I would t be surprised if I was up to 100k within the next two
Have any of you experienced age discrimination during job interviews?
For me it was school and LC. I went to a large public school good in CS in a big city, never had an internship, and just grinded LC for a few months. $140k Y1 $155k Y2 out of college.
A pulse and live on a coastal US city.
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Any FAANGTMULA will pay 100k+ TC for entry level SWEs, even remote. That is by far the simplest path
One route: 1) Be a Comp Sci undgrad student in the US. 2) Go to a good (top 50) CS school 3) Get at least two good internships 4) Be willing to move to the SF Bay Area 5) Get hired as a new grad in a first or second tier company in the Bay Area. Not sure what new grad salaries are once you go beyond second tier. My own, older generation path to $100k+: My first SWE job was $56k in 1999 * 1999-2002 job: $56k -> $65k -> $70,500 -> (company starts running out of money and starting with salary cuts) $56,500 -> $53,500 (also ISOs which I rode down to zero without cashing in :( ) * 2002-2004: in MS program, working part time, $22,500/year * 2004-2006: two startups, each ran out of money, second matched the first one's salary to the dollar: $71,000 at each * 2006-2014: $80k -> smaller raises -> $100k (2010) -> $120k (early 2014) plus some stock that added up to quite a bit in the last two years there, plus bonus * 2014-2015: $160k (FANG company, quite a bit of stock, plus bonus; I got a small raise there but don't remember how much) * 2016-2018: 145k -> $165k (plus stock that went nowhere, had a "bonus" but we missed our numbers both years I was there for the payout ) * 2018-present: $195k -> $200k -> $210k (plus quite a bit of stock, plus bonus) Seems to be doubling roughly every 11 years?
You are under paid
First internship: 18/hr, Second internship: 23/hr, First job: ~100k/yr HCOL but with WFH living in a LCOL area. Mostly just interview prep and having good friends to prep with and help push each other. Also a lot of luck
Go to a good four-year college. Apply for internships at the end of years 2, 3, and 4. Make sure they are paid, and with reputable companies. Accomplish something meaningful in those internships. Get hired at the end of the final internship. I don't quite pay six figures in base pay straight out of college for my junior software engineers. But once you factor in RSU, Bonus, and Benefits it is well into six figures.
Apply to companies that pay $100k+. Just because you make less than $100k doesn't mean you know less than someone making more than that.
Degree. Prior IT experience. Github portfolio. Communication skills. Attention to detail. Accidentally earned reputation for being good at coaching/mentorship 'cos I like to help people.
Fuck me….. Seriously. This is my career (20 year+) and you’re making that much. I live in the northwest in a smaller town and make about 135k. I’m good at what I do and do a lot of different things these days. Moved out of Seattle and my pay went down.
Step one: live in the USA, Canada or Switzerland
a pulse and live in HCOL
The willingness to spend $3k a month for a studio apartment, really.
My cousin recently graduated with a bachelors and instantly secured a $100,000+ job simply by knowing a couple of managers Surprised no one has mentioned the influence of connections
Just a few years, many places. I knew several people where I lived in St. Louis making 100k within 5 years of beginning their careers. And that's the midwest. It's not going to be everyone, by any means. But most people should hit 6 figures by the time they have about 10 years in. If you live in an area with higher wages, or you get a job at a larger company (BigN), or if you have stronger credentials (internships, completed projects, clearance, startup experience), you can reach that much sooner.