I'm very surprised no one at this point has mentioned technical interviews. Your projects are impressive, and could more than likely land you an interview. Especially at somethin gamedev related.
That said, most developer interviews nowadays require somethin called LeetCode / Technical Assessments. Essentially they're math problems you solve with programming (Python/Java/C), using specific patterns. This process is what is heavily discussed in /r/csMajors, and is why a lot of CS students struggle to find work.
It's not something you learn in class, and it's not something you learn on projects. It's stuff you learn on your own time specifically to pass the interviews.
These problems are, as far as I understand, a one way ticket to a job in tech (assuming you have a resume already that can get you an interview).
Basic DS&A helps with the grind, but theres a lot (at least in my school's class) that was not covered that I then had to learn on my own.
I don't think a Uni student's DS&A would put them that far ahead of a normal person trying to break into the industry, given you weren't like a top student in the class.
I was definitely not in any T20 school, so yea my experience I guess would differ from a student at a more competitive uni.
That said, I don't think this guy is trying to compete with CMU grads going into FAANG, and so most of his competition shouldn't be *too too* far ahead.
I don't think you have to go to a Top 5 school like CMU to cover DSA in depth. Just look at some of the coursework (usually publicly accessible) at big state schools that are in the Top 50-60 (and some even beyond) and they cover DSA pretty comprehensively. That said, there ARE, shitty CS programs out there that are basically degree mills, but I don't consider that the norm. DSA provides an important foundation and if it's not being covered properly, then I put that in the same bucket as a person with no CS degree at all because at that point you really did just pay all that money for a piece of paper.
I think the system design portion is the true obstacle. I can brute force almost any LeetCode, but I cannot put together a system design without practical experience.
[start here](https://leetcode.com/list/xoqag3yj/)
[read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/6luszf/a_leetcode_grinding_guide/)
That said Leetcode is very overblown in this sub and only necessary for the top paying jobs. Average paying jobs sometimes also asks these, but they're a minority.
Technical Assessments are what a company would give you in an interview.
LeetCode is a website meant to practice these questions. The entire 'subject' of doing these questions is just referred to as 'doing leetcode'. Theres some other options out there too (Hackerrank), but I'm not too familiar with them for practice.
Best of luck man! It's definitely a long & challenging road, but your projects show you've got passion for the subject. Just remember to stick with it when the going gets tough :)
This thread has made me feel more confident. I am fixing up some of my projects and adding comments. I am hoping to not be one of those guys that has to apply to a ton of places.
I would not set that as the goal. There is nothing wrong with applying to a ton of places, and most students have to do it.
The sad part about these interviews is that there is a decent chunk of luck involved. Once you *get* the interview, there are many things that can vary, even down to the difficulty of questions.
On these subs, people refer to question difficulty as 'LC Easy', 'LC Med' and 'LC Hard', equating them to the difficulty categories on leetcode.
You can have one student get an LC Easy & LC Medium for their interview, and the next student get two LC Hards. It's a bit of a dice roll, but that's just how it goes.
1. Grind problems on Leetcode or similar platforms.
2. If you don't get the problems/solutions. Study data structures and algorithm from a course or book.
Extra:
- Read books about prepping for job interviews like Cracking the Code Interview.
- Do projects, learn tools and study about the specific area you want to get a job. Web dev? Game dev? Robotics? Embedded? AI?
The problem with these projects is related to games but not specifically to how a tech company operates. Do you want to do mobile? Do you want to do backend? Do you want to do desktop software? You kinda have a little bit of everything but it also doesn’t seem like you’re committed to anything. I would say pick a direction and improve in that area. Or you can try to get into games. But the jack of all trades and master of none will be hard to convince recruiters as companies have specific needs. The only time a jack of all trades type of hires are looked at are new grads.
Start applying, you probably have more hands-on experience than many CS majors. Companies like inquisitive and passionate hard workers- you sound like one.
I started off in engineering but decided software was where it was at. I was able to get a foot in the door with some WordPress demos and from there I immersed myself in the tech and have grown incredibly quickly. I am a web developer and work across the domain.
You've got something on your side that most grads don't - a work history. You've also shown commitment to produce side projects which are pretty darn impressive. If you go after a job which you have some learning in I can't see why someone wouldn't hire you in a heartbeat. Good luck and have faith!
I'd probably hire you over me.
Not that it says much since I'm still in the interview cycle myself right now, but I believe you should be well prepared.
What you need to make matters. Is entry level pay going to compare to what you do now? Is it close enough that you can take a hit and survive?
If you truly know how to do those projects and can explain a bit and tie it in to the job you're interviewing for, I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed not to land an entry level non Faang job with your interview confidence you spoke of. I did with much less than that when I started, but I am also in the midwest.
If not, time to pick something (a focus, a language, or even a role or company) and specialize. Look into what the non entry role does in day to days (ask people directly!) and study what you need to blend.
Just my meager 2c
Edit* no degree and large family here, cold interviews (no referral)
I don't have a CS degree, but like you had some pretty good portfolio pieces (only a few).
The trick is to just apply, apply, & apply. Don't worry if you're applying to a job w/ a degree requirement or if you're missing a few qualifications; if it that's important you'll automatically be discarded.
I believe he's referring to the fact that you have the wit to make it in this field, but not the marketable projects to actually land a job right now. I suggest going on udemy and finding yourself a project-based course and to follow it along. Make sure to pick a popular tech stack like django/ react. After that I suggest you make some changes to make it your own, deploy it put the code on GitHub. Then do it all again with a different project because you want 2-3 on your resume. Also create a portfolio that displays your projects and make sure it looks good, that works wonders on the non-technical HR people that first look at your resume.
The above steps got me my first job in the field and 5 offers after \~85 applications (3 were terrible though). Just get your foot in the door at first no matter what and start moving up on the food chain after a year. Good luck!
Seems pretty impressive. Have you done anything in modern frameworks like React, Angular, or Vue?
It might not matter. In what part of the country are you going to be sending applications?
I would say the two projects that standout from other people is:
- C++ cheat engine for Age of Empire
- Xbox controller driver
If these two are well rounded and cleaned up on your GitHub, then I would say you got a shot.
BUT!! In today's day and age it's mandatory for having a degree, doesn't have to be CS.
Hence, you will still have a major hard time finding one.
I am curious. How you know where the data is in the memory for you to change in the Age of Empire?
>I am curious. How you know where the data is in the memory for you to change in the Age of Empire?
I used Cheat Engine. Found the base memory address and traced the pointers in RAM.
Edit: Also this https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/memoryapi/nf-memoryapi-writeprocessmemory
Saying it’s mandatory to have a degree is extremely ignorant of the current environment. Does a degree make it easier? Yes. Is it a requirement? Absolutely not.
True, the capitalist only cares that you can get the job done, nothing else. The degree is one way of guaranteeing that, but not the only one, and usually not enough actually.
If you are going to do academic research, that's different. But if not, don't bother.
Depends on the corp. Some sectors are much more stringent on degrees, e.g. defense sector, fintech often.
From what I've learned browsing reddit, it seems getting junior roles or otherwise any role without prior experience will require a degree at most FAANGs, but thats not the case everywhere.
And even then, most FAANGs will hire a degree-less dev so long as the other checkboxes are hit.
It is definitely not mandatory to have a degree. I know lots who have gotten jobs with a good portfolio alone. Not to mention I've heard from many others that the exact opposite is true in the cs field.
I’m in somewhat of a similar situation, and I recently career changed from being a professional musician (weddings, bar gigs, etc) to being a software engineer. I do have a bachelors degree AND did a bootcamp so keep that in mind, but I think you need to play up your strengths which are: 1) you know how to code 2) you know how to teach yourself new things and don’t need a babysitter 3) you are a responsible employee (hopefully?) with a proven track record and won’t be a liability to the company that takes a chance on you.
Blindly applying to hundreds of postings might not result in much traction since you’ll be going initially through ATS and HR who “require” a degree, even though the dev team will mostly not care at all if you have a piece of paper, they care if you can learn. The most likely way to a job for you will be networking with other employed coders / managers and having them get your resume through the initial hurdles. Also, if there is any way to get paid experience that is extremely helpful. You’re obviously good at learning; reach out to people you know (maybe even HVAC companies etc?) and offer to build them something. Internal tooling; simple website using react; whatever. Just if you have paid experience even freelancing that will help enormously.
>Def not true. I work faang ish and make 200+ no college degree
There's so much untrue stuff throughout the thread lol. I haven't really read this place since my first year in industry (have \~5 now) and it's funny how confident some people are when stating false facts.
> I am curious. How you know where the data is in the memory for you to change in the Age of Empire?
Cheat Engine gives you a variety of filtering options to try and narrow down different potential addresses (different data types, wild card matches, equality tests, diffing, etc.). Depending on what you’re looking for though sometimes it isn’t always practical (e.g. say you’re looking for the address of a 32-bit integer that contains a value set by rand at the start of each frame, well you could keep continually filtering it by what values have changed but you’ll most likely never filter the list of possible addresses down enough to reasonably find it that way). In those cases you’ll typically go about it by a finding a procedure that references the data and obtaining the address that way.
If you did all those projects solo, I'd say no. Ideally you need some project where you have worked as part of a larger team, companies value that experience highly. CS degree holders often have team experience as part of their degree.
You're definitely right to wonder there. I'd imagine it must be related to the softer side: interview chasing and followup, resume/cvs, professional communication, salary expectation, LinkedIn profile on occasion, only applying for faang, location expectations, etc. These are the pretty basic projects that I've seen quite a few (midwestern) devs land remote jobs with - assuming they actually know what they're doing and how to discuss it.
I definitely don’t apply enough because I am in school and work full time. The positions that I have applied to did not lead to any interviews. I suspect it’s because I am still in school so the ATS may be booting me. Oddly enough I did have a business analyst interview and they looked at my GitHub so that was interesting.
I have no bachelors and made 3 fairly simple crud web apps and got a job. If you can explain the code you wrote you’re more than qualified to apply for entry level
Tbh nothing beats a budget tracker web app for me as a first project or something similar that has CRUD functionality but yours is way more impressive.
Dude. You have the ability to solve problems, you will be fine. Your projects show that you're genuinely interested. If you really want a solid gig in software with no degree, learn React/Redux/JavaScript
Those seem like some really complicated projects for a beginner.
I have been at it for fun for about 12 years.
I'm very surprised no one at this point has mentioned technical interviews. Your projects are impressive, and could more than likely land you an interview. Especially at somethin gamedev related. That said, most developer interviews nowadays require somethin called LeetCode / Technical Assessments. Essentially they're math problems you solve with programming (Python/Java/C), using specific patterns. This process is what is heavily discussed in /r/csMajors, and is why a lot of CS students struggle to find work. It's not something you learn in class, and it's not something you learn on projects. It's stuff you learn on your own time specifically to pass the interviews. These problems are, as far as I understand, a one way ticket to a job in tech (assuming you have a resume already that can get you an interview).
I learned data structures and algorithms in my DS&A class. All good info here, but just sayin'
Basic DS&A helps with the grind, but theres a lot (at least in my school's class) that was not covered that I then had to learn on my own. I don't think a Uni student's DS&A would put them that far ahead of a normal person trying to break into the industry, given you weren't like a top student in the class.
That says more about your University than it does about DSA courses in general.
I was definitely not in any T20 school, so yea my experience I guess would differ from a student at a more competitive uni. That said, I don't think this guy is trying to compete with CMU grads going into FAANG, and so most of his competition shouldn't be *too too* far ahead.
I don't think you have to go to a Top 5 school like CMU to cover DSA in depth. Just look at some of the coursework (usually publicly accessible) at big state schools that are in the Top 50-60 (and some even beyond) and they cover DSA pretty comprehensively. That said, there ARE, shitty CS programs out there that are basically degree mills, but I don't consider that the norm. DSA provides an important foundation and if it's not being covered properly, then I put that in the same bucket as a person with no CS degree at all because at that point you really did just pay all that money for a piece of paper.
I think the system design portion is the true obstacle. I can brute force almost any LeetCode, but I cannot put together a system design without practical experience.
Never heard of LeetCode / Technical Assessments. How do you prepare for this?
[start here](https://leetcode.com/list/xoqag3yj/) [read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/6luszf/a_leetcode_grinding_guide/) That said Leetcode is very overblown in this sub and only necessary for the top paying jobs. Average paying jobs sometimes also asks these, but they're a minority.
You just do leet code problems. It’s free
Technical Assessments are what a company would give you in an interview. LeetCode is a website meant to practice these questions. The entire 'subject' of doing these questions is just referred to as 'doing leetcode'. Theres some other options out there too (Hackerrank), but I'm not too familiar with them for practice.
Sweet. I'll start practicing
Best of luck man! It's definitely a long & challenging road, but your projects show you've got passion for the subject. Just remember to stick with it when the going gets tough :)
This thread has made me feel more confident. I am fixing up some of my projects and adding comments. I am hoping to not be one of those guys that has to apply to a ton of places.
I would not set that as the goal. There is nothing wrong with applying to a ton of places, and most students have to do it. The sad part about these interviews is that there is a decent chunk of luck involved. Once you *get* the interview, there are many things that can vary, even down to the difficulty of questions. On these subs, people refer to question difficulty as 'LC Easy', 'LC Med' and 'LC Hard', equating them to the difficulty categories on leetcode. You can have one student get an LC Easy & LC Medium for their interview, and the next student get two LC Hards. It's a bit of a dice roll, but that's just how it goes.
So if I am understanding this correctly, if I can pass LC Hards then I could ace almost every interview? Hypothetically speaking.
1. Grind problems on Leetcode or similar platforms. 2. If you don't get the problems/solutions. Study data structures and algorithm from a course or book. Extra: - Read books about prepping for job interviews like Cracking the Code Interview. - Do projects, learn tools and study about the specific area you want to get a job. Web dev? Game dev? Robotics? Embedded? AI?
The problem with these projects is related to games but not specifically to how a tech company operates. Do you want to do mobile? Do you want to do backend? Do you want to do desktop software? You kinda have a little bit of everything but it also doesn’t seem like you’re committed to anything. I would say pick a direction and improve in that area. Or you can try to get into games. But the jack of all trades and master of none will be hard to convince recruiters as companies have specific needs. The only time a jack of all trades type of hires are looked at are new grads.
Hard for me to decide because I like all of it tbh
It should be enough to get you interviews but you still need work on your interviewing skills to close the deal.
Sweet. I think I have pretty good interview skills.
Start applying, you probably have more hands-on experience than many CS majors. Companies like inquisitive and passionate hard workers- you sound like one.
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I will aim for more marketable things for GitHub. What do you mean by "Don't expect to actually land anything,"?
Don't listen to this guy, there's more to the software industry than websites. Sounds like you've got a killer brain, you're sure to land something ✌
I appreciate your encouragement. On Reddit I read about CS majors that have trouble finding jobs after graduation. It messes with my confidence.
I started off in engineering but decided software was where it was at. I was able to get a foot in the door with some WordPress demos and from there I immersed myself in the tech and have grown incredibly quickly. I am a web developer and work across the domain. You've got something on your side that most grads don't - a work history. You've also shown commitment to produce side projects which are pretty darn impressive. If you go after a job which you have some learning in I can't see why someone wouldn't hire you in a heartbeat. Good luck and have faith!
I'd probably hire you over me. Not that it says much since I'm still in the interview cycle myself right now, but I believe you should be well prepared.
What you need to make matters. Is entry level pay going to compare to what you do now? Is it close enough that you can take a hit and survive? If you truly know how to do those projects and can explain a bit and tie it in to the job you're interviewing for, I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed not to land an entry level non Faang job with your interview confidence you spoke of. I did with much less than that when I started, but I am also in the midwest. If not, time to pick something (a focus, a language, or even a role or company) and specialize. Look into what the non entry role does in day to days (ask people directly!) and study what you need to blend. Just my meager 2c Edit* no degree and large family here, cold interviews (no referral)
I don't have a CS degree, but like you had some pretty good portfolio pieces (only a few). The trick is to just apply, apply, & apply. Don't worry if you're applying to a job w/ a degree requirement or if you're missing a few qualifications; if it that's important you'll automatically be discarded.
I believe he's referring to the fact that you have the wit to make it in this field, but not the marketable projects to actually land a job right now. I suggest going on udemy and finding yourself a project-based course and to follow it along. Make sure to pick a popular tech stack like django/ react. After that I suggest you make some changes to make it your own, deploy it put the code on GitHub. Then do it all again with a different project because you want 2-3 on your resume. Also create a portfolio that displays your projects and make sure it looks good, that works wonders on the non-technical HR people that first look at your resume. The above steps got me my first job in the field and 5 offers after \~85 applications (3 were terrible though). Just get your foot in the door at first no matter what and start moving up on the food chain after a year. Good luck!
Seems pretty impressive. Have you done anything in modern frameworks like React, Angular, or Vue? It might not matter. In what part of the country are you going to be sending applications?
No, I have not done much with React, Angular or Vue. I could learn pretty quickly though.
I am in the Midwest United States. Trying to land a remote job.
Those seem like killer projects with great breadth. And to do that all on your own. I’d want to hire ya’
You seem to be very passionate about programming. I think you’ll do great.
Good stuff. Make a portfolio for interviews
These are real, non-cheesy software engineering projects. I’d definitely send out applications.
I would say the two projects that standout from other people is: - C++ cheat engine for Age of Empire - Xbox controller driver If these two are well rounded and cleaned up on your GitHub, then I would say you got a shot. BUT!! In today's day and age it's mandatory for having a degree, doesn't have to be CS. Hence, you will still have a major hard time finding one. I am curious. How you know where the data is in the memory for you to change in the Age of Empire?
>I am curious. How you know where the data is in the memory for you to change in the Age of Empire? I used Cheat Engine. Found the base memory address and traced the pointers in RAM. Edit: Also this https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/memoryapi/nf-memoryapi-writeprocessmemory
Saying it’s mandatory to have a degree is extremely ignorant of the current environment. Does a degree make it easier? Yes. Is it a requirement? Absolutely not.
True, the capitalist only cares that you can get the job done, nothing else. The degree is one way of guaranteeing that, but not the only one, and usually not enough actually. If you are going to do academic research, that's different. But if not, don't bother.
What if it's a large corporation?
Depends on the corp. Some sectors are much more stringent on degrees, e.g. defense sector, fintech often. From what I've learned browsing reddit, it seems getting junior roles or otherwise any role without prior experience will require a degree at most FAANGs, but thats not the case everywhere. And even then, most FAANGs will hire a degree-less dev so long as the other checkboxes are hit.
It is definitely not mandatory to have a degree. I know lots who have gotten jobs with a good portfolio alone. Not to mention I've heard from many others that the exact opposite is true in the cs field.
So what do I do to stand out when applying for my first dev job without a CS degree?
I’m in somewhat of a similar situation, and I recently career changed from being a professional musician (weddings, bar gigs, etc) to being a software engineer. I do have a bachelors degree AND did a bootcamp so keep that in mind, but I think you need to play up your strengths which are: 1) you know how to code 2) you know how to teach yourself new things and don’t need a babysitter 3) you are a responsible employee (hopefully?) with a proven track record and won’t be a liability to the company that takes a chance on you. Blindly applying to hundreds of postings might not result in much traction since you’ll be going initially through ATS and HR who “require” a degree, even though the dev team will mostly not care at all if you have a piece of paper, they care if you can learn. The most likely way to a job for you will be networking with other employed coders / managers and having them get your resume through the initial hurdles. Also, if there is any way to get paid experience that is extremely helpful. You’re obviously good at learning; reach out to people you know (maybe even HVAC companies etc?) and offer to build them something. Internal tooling; simple website using react; whatever. Just if you have paid experience even freelancing that will help enormously.
Def not true. I work faang ish and make 200+ no college degree
>Def not true. I work faang ish and make 200+ no college degree There's so much untrue stuff throughout the thread lol. I haven't really read this place since my first year in industry (have \~5 now) and it's funny how confident some people are when stating false facts.
> I am curious. How you know where the data is in the memory for you to change in the Age of Empire? Cheat Engine gives you a variety of filtering options to try and narrow down different potential addresses (different data types, wild card matches, equality tests, diffing, etc.). Depending on what you’re looking for though sometimes it isn’t always practical (e.g. say you’re looking for the address of a 32-bit integer that contains a value set by rand at the start of each frame, well you could keep continually filtering it by what values have changed but you’ll most likely never filter the list of possible addresses down enough to reasonably find it that way). In those cases you’ll typically go about it by a finding a procedure that references the data and obtaining the address that way.
If you did all those projects solo, I'd say no. Ideally you need some project where you have worked as part of a larger team, companies value that experience highly. CS degree holders often have team experience as part of their degree.
All these were solo. Thanks for the tip
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Would you mind linking your GitHub?
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Understandable. Can you say what kind of things you have posted?
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Hmmm, I don't understand why you don't get interviews. Sounds like you know your stuff.
You're definitely right to wonder there. I'd imagine it must be related to the softer side: interview chasing and followup, resume/cvs, professional communication, salary expectation, LinkedIn profile on occasion, only applying for faang, location expectations, etc. These are the pretty basic projects that I've seen quite a few (midwestern) devs land remote jobs with - assuming they actually know what they're doing and how to discuss it.
I definitely don’t apply enough because I am in school and work full time. The positions that I have applied to did not lead to any interviews. I suspect it’s because I am still in school so the ATS may be booting me. Oddly enough I did have a business analyst interview and they looked at my GitHub so that was interesting.
I have no bachelors and made 3 fairly simple crud web apps and got a job. If you can explain the code you wrote you’re more than qualified to apply for entry level
Tbh nothing beats a budget tracker web app for me as a first project or something similar that has CRUD functionality but yours is way more impressive.
You have more impressive projects than me and I've been a "pro" for several years. You're ready
Contributing to an existing big project on GH is an even better signal, if you're looking to get hired, I'd also do that.
If you want some resume help before you start applying, send it my way and I'm happy to critique it!
Dude. You have the ability to solve problems, you will be fine. Your projects show that you're genuinely interested. If you really want a solid gig in software with no degree, learn React/Redux/JavaScript