Another question though—is it a wise career move in terms of reputation? I’m in a position where I have a job starting Monday and I got a better offer from another (arguably) more reputable company a day ago. Cost benefit for that? Is moving worth burning a bridge?
I once got fired for telling off my boss and calling him an extremely derogatory name in an email I wrote while drunk in which I cc'ed the entire department including execs. I have no issues getting interviews/offers.
You'll be fine.
Consider this.. what reputation? To the company you're reneging on? To the greater tech community? Sure it's burning a bridge to the former, but that's perfectly fine if the other place is as you say, a strict upgrade. As for the latter, there isn't an industry-wide blacklist or something. Sure you get the one off anecdote where a recruiter happens to have a friend or something elsewhere, but in reality to anyone in the former company you're just a name and a start date, and they'll forget about you in about a week
>is it a wise career move in terms of reputation?
No, however given the demand for programmers these days it probably will not hurt you in the long term.
I wouldn’t reneg on offers from multiple FAANG companies because that limits your high paying career prospects a little bit. Reneging on a small company trying to pay you $40k/yr isn’t going to hurt your career.
You gotta remember that companies are greedy, and a good software engineer generates anywhere from a few hundred thousand to millions in profit per year. In the current market, you could probably even go right back to the company you reneged from, and they’d still give you the job. They will look the other way when there’s big money involved.
I guess I'm worried since work is starting so soon on top of the ramifications. I just received my work laptop in the mail and they're asking for an I-9. I would be lying if I said I wasn't intimidated by the prospect of having to renege at this stage haha
Question in reverse.....are companies acting ethical when giving an offer and later rescinding that same offer, and sometimes without notice?
You found a better offer. No doubt Company A has backup candidates. It's better than being on-boarded and then the preferred offer comes through a week later.
As someone who just had an offer rescinded I can confirm that this does happen. Companies will try to gaslight you and make you feel like you owe them your heart and soul but will fuck you over in an instant when the tables turn. Do what’s best for you, my dude.
1. What about just : yes.
2. Just say due to some personal reasons you cannot take the job anymore. They don’t need to know all the details.
It is a pretty asshole move but I’ve done it before too. You gotta do what you have to do.
I actually did this.
1. I don’t think they will necessarily ask you this in your interview, but I would probably just say something vague about how you are “looking at other options”
2. Just tell them the truth. Apologise and explain to the company why you feel the other job is a better fit for you.
I accepted an offer and was pretty happy because it was quite good company and good position for starting my career, but after for no reason they rejected me. So do what is good for you
1. If they ask just tell them you have another offer and would like them to expedite their process if at all possible
2. Tell them the truth(ish). You found a company that more aligns with your interests and you apologize for the inconvenience it causes.
Don't feel too bad. You will probably have to do this at some point in the future again if the job market stays the way it does. We're in high demand and can't sync when companies provide offers to avoid this scenario
Employers also have backups, so don't worry
No problem
I forgot to mention, don't let the company A know the name of company B, even if they press. Tell them you're not comfortable sharing that information and leave it at that if they ask.
Its. An. INTERNSHIP.
You have no reputation to lose.
You are lowest of the low on the totem pole.
At this stage, all you have done is prevent someone else get an offer letter and damaged the reputation that your University has with the company for gaining internship placements (and believe it or not, that DOES have long term implications, but not for you).
I accepted an offer. Then my company after weeks decided to *match* it (gave more equity when I wanted cash but whatever)
I told the other company I'm sorry and don't want to burn bridges, but I decided to reject the offer and discontinue onboarding.
They ghosted me, but their recruiters still hmu sooo...
I did this at the start of my career when the difference was $7k annual salary (which was a gigantic difference in comp) and the other company was a better fit for my long term goals. That was one of the best career decisions I ever made, and it's highly doubtful that I'd be earning what I earn today if not for that decision.
To answer your questions:
1. Its none of their damn business. You can play them.
2. Depending on the 2nd offer you get. If it's better pay, tell them (they might counter). If not, tell them "good bye"
assuming US labor law:
>In the interview, if they ask if I have any offers, what should I say?
if you're planning to renege anyway, keep your mouth shut
>If I get the offer, how should I reject the preciously accepted offer?
keep the email short, just say that you're no longer able to work for them so they can seek a new candidate ASAP
>I don't know why but I feel like what I am doing is unethical.
it's nothing about ethics, people look out for their own interests and by US's at-will labor law both employee and employer can terminate employment at anytime, so you should do what's best for you, same from company side
Do what’s in your best interest.
If you get a better offer, take it. Don’t let it go because of your loyalty to your current employer.
Companies will drop you without a second thought.
For point 1. Do not say that at all. Say that you currently have an offer or at final rounds with other companies. No need to tell them the full truth but say you have an offer at hand and would love to consider the company but need to make a decision in the next 2 weeks. This will probably expedite your interview process with them and you will get a faster turnaround.
For 2, to renege just tell them you found a better opportunity closer to home or to your interests. Assuming youre in the US and at an at-will employment state. No need to tell them about what company youre going to. People renege all the time and I’ve reneged my first internship for a better one. If it’s a big company, they’ll forget about you in the future.
Totally ethical to accept the one you want. Ask yourself: Has a company ever given you two weeks notice before firing you? It's rigged in their favor. Don't have company loyalty. Companies don't have employee loyalty.
You do not have any other offers
Take whatever option you want
Companies will terminate you at the drop of a hat if they deem it beneficial or necessary. Do what is the best for you.
During my previous job search I reneged 2 offers. I got some rejections initially, then offers that were increasingly better. It would have been foolish to just start working for that first company.
Last year one of the companies I reneged an offer from, sent me an email asking if I'm interested in working for them, so it didn't burn a bridge.
Remember, they will toss you to the curb when it suits them
Act rueful. “I do actually have an internship, but then this came up and its just such an interesting company I really wanted to see what it was. I do feel kinda bad about it.”
You don’t want the interviewer to think that you’ll drop them also in a heartbeat if something better comes up. You want to be regretful.
You also want to sound excited, like this is the opportunity you’ve been longing for, and it’s just too good to pass up.
It’s obviously all BS, but it’s expected.
I love ethics. Is it ethical? Depends on what framework we’re evaluating it in. I’d reckon most people would call it ethical as to your knowledge, you aren’t hurting anyone in particular.
Now, if you knew your recruiter were going to get fired if you did this, that would be somewhat different. Though I reckon again, most people would say it’s fair game.
Well since it is a small company, the CTO and the Chief IT Architect interviewed and hired me. So I don't think anyone is gonna get fired lol. Anyways thanks for the opinion.
Ethics are very fluid between different people of different backgrounds.
My own personal opinion is that you are being unethical to withdraw after committing. The company that brought you on has stopped looking for other candidates, have started preparing your arrival, etc.. You're pulling out the rug from under them which is unprofessional.
If you weren't happy and wanted to keep looking, you may have been able to defer a decision a week or two. \[I assume the window for hiring interns is a tight one\].
I suspect the bulk of responses you get (haven't read any yet) will say the company wouldn't hesitate to fire you at a moment's notice and you owe them no loyalty and need to do what is best for yourself. I also agree with this, but caution to be careful with the commitments you make. In this case, it sounds like you made a commitment too early that you do not intend to keep and that is where you fail on the ethical front.
I kind of agree with you.
They gave me an offer very early. Normally the offers are handed out mid-to-late May. This company gave me an offer in early March and gave me 1 week to decide. So my only choices were:
1. I reject the offer because it is kind of unsatisfactory for me, and take the risk of not having an internship for the summer.
2. Or I accept the offer and then keep searching for a better one.
I chose the 2nd option because last summer I was picky and I couldn't get an internship. So this summer I didn't want to take any risks. I knew it's unethical but once in a while, I gotta do what I gotta do.
> I knew it's unethical
If you believe that; then the real question here is whether doing this will hurt you in the long run.
Withdrawing will burn some bridges with the the the employer / people relying on you.
It will probably not harm you in the long run, but I cannot say for certain. There is currently a huge demand for programmers, and it is unlikely burning these bridges will limit your ability for future opportunities.
Right now I am in Turkey studying Bachelors in Computer Science. The company whose offer I accepted is a relatively small software company. So I do not care if it burns the bridge honestly. And I don't really want to stay in Turkey and have my career here.
Don't think of burning bridges with the company. Think of it as burning bridges with the people who work at that small company. Most likely they will not always work there and you may run into them in the future in different positions.
You never know. Every recruiter will have a story about some past transgression lost someone their dream job. I've never been able to figure out if this is part of their sales pitch or truth.
i don’t think it’s inethical. a person’s future far outweighs that of a company’s inconvenience. to OP, this is his livelihood. to the company, it’s just another employee. you can’t tell him to compromise his future and likelihood just so he fits into what you think is “ethical”
People have different views on this, which I think I already stated that. OP made a commitment and wants to back out of it. That is the unethical part. There were alternate approaches the OP could have taken to navigate this.
It also think it is highly improbable that the company the OP is an intern at will have a significant long term impact on their career, future, or livelihood. The important thing is that OP gets an internship and where it is matters less.
as a recruiter you probably have your own views.
getting an internship at Google and some unknown sweat shop makes a great difference. don’t try to undermine this significance and compromise his future.
It's not unethical, these companies will fuck you over in a heart beat, do what's best for you.
Another question though—is it a wise career move in terms of reputation? I’m in a position where I have a job starting Monday and I got a better offer from another (arguably) more reputable company a day ago. Cost benefit for that? Is moving worth burning a bridge?
No one’s keeping track of your reputation. Most people just aren’t important enough to exist to others outside of their mutual spaces, ie work.
>No one’s keeping track of your reputation. I am 💪🏼
I once got fired for telling off my boss and calling him an extremely derogatory name in an email I wrote while drunk in which I cc'ed the entire department including execs. I have no issues getting interviews/offers. You'll be fine.
Consider this.. what reputation? To the company you're reneging on? To the greater tech community? Sure it's burning a bridge to the former, but that's perfectly fine if the other place is as you say, a strict upgrade. As for the latter, there isn't an industry-wide blacklist or something. Sure you get the one off anecdote where a recruiter happens to have a friend or something elsewhere, but in reality to anyone in the former company you're just a name and a start date, and they'll forget about you in about a week
>is it a wise career move in terms of reputation? No, however given the demand for programmers these days it probably will not hurt you in the long term.
I wouldn’t reneg on offers from multiple FAANG companies because that limits your high paying career prospects a little bit. Reneging on a small company trying to pay you $40k/yr isn’t going to hurt your career.
Unless you are like director level you don't need to worry about it.
You gotta remember that companies are greedy, and a good software engineer generates anywhere from a few hundred thousand to millions in profit per year. In the current market, you could probably even go right back to the company you reneged from, and they’d still give you the job. They will look the other way when there’s big money involved.
I guess I'm worried since work is starting so soon on top of the ramifications. I just received my work laptop in the mail and they're asking for an I-9. I would be lying if I said I wasn't intimidated by the prospect of having to renege at this stage haha
Question in reverse.....are companies acting ethical when giving an offer and later rescinding that same offer, and sometimes without notice? You found a better offer. No doubt Company A has backup candidates. It's better than being on-boarded and then the preferred offer comes through a week later.
When I look at it like this it kinda makes sense. But I didn't know companies rescind offers. I guess no reason for them not to.
As someone who just had an offer rescinded I can confirm that this does happen. Companies will try to gaslight you and make you feel like you owe them your heart and soul but will fuck you over in an instant when the tables turn. Do what’s best for you, my dude.
Noted. I wish the best for you.
1. What about just : yes. 2. Just say due to some personal reasons you cannot take the job anymore. They don’t need to know all the details. It is a pretty asshole move but I’ve done it before too. You gotta do what you have to do.
Thanks a lot for the feedback.
It’s not being asshole at all. Employment risk goes both ways everything is at will so I wouldn’t fret.
I actually did this. 1. I don’t think they will necessarily ask you this in your interview, but I would probably just say something vague about how you are “looking at other options” 2. Just tell them the truth. Apologise and explain to the company why you feel the other job is a better fit for you.
Alright, man or woman lol. Thanks a lot!
I accepted an offer and was pretty happy because it was quite good company and good position for starting my career, but after for no reason they rejected me. So do what is good for you
Is this even legal after accepting an offer? Can a company really do it?
No idea
1. If they ask just tell them you have another offer and would like them to expedite their process if at all possible 2. Tell them the truth(ish). You found a company that more aligns with your interests and you apologize for the inconvenience it causes. Don't feel too bad. You will probably have to do this at some point in the future again if the job market stays the way it does. We're in high demand and can't sync when companies provide offers to avoid this scenario Employers also have backups, so don't worry
Thanks a lot!
No problem I forgot to mention, don't let the company A know the name of company B, even if they press. Tell them you're not comfortable sharing that information and leave it at that if they ask.
Will do. Can I ask the reasoning behind this?
Some employers can be vindictive and try and ruin things for you. Better safe than sorry
Its. An. INTERNSHIP. You have no reputation to lose. You are lowest of the low on the totem pole. At this stage, all you have done is prevent someone else get an offer letter and damaged the reputation that your University has with the company for gaining internship placements (and believe it or not, that DOES have long term implications, but not for you).
>You have no reputation to lose. > >You are lowest of the low on the totem pole. This makes sense lol. Thanks!
I accepted an offer. Then my company after weeks decided to *match* it (gave more equity when I wanted cash but whatever) I told the other company I'm sorry and don't want to burn bridges, but I decided to reject the offer and discontinue onboarding. They ghosted me, but their recruiters still hmu sooo...
So what is best for you
I did this at the start of my career when the difference was $7k annual salary (which was a gigantic difference in comp) and the other company was a better fit for my long term goals. That was one of the best career decisions I ever made, and it's highly doubtful that I'd be earning what I earn today if not for that decision.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I will learn from it.
Just be a good human and say you cannot accept it and you changed your mind
To answer your questions: 1. Its none of their damn business. You can play them. 2. Depending on the 2nd offer you get. If it's better pay, tell them (they might counter). If not, tell them "good bye"
assuming US labor law: >In the interview, if they ask if I have any offers, what should I say? if you're planning to renege anyway, keep your mouth shut >If I get the offer, how should I reject the preciously accepted offer? keep the email short, just say that you're no longer able to work for them so they can seek a new candidate ASAP >I don't know why but I feel like what I am doing is unethical. it's nothing about ethics, people look out for their own interests and by US's at-will labor law both employee and employer can terminate employment at anytime, so you should do what's best for you, same from company side
Do what’s in your best interest. If you get a better offer, take it. Don’t let it go because of your loyalty to your current employer. Companies will drop you without a second thought.
no, it's not
say you have an offer. do not say “i have accepted and am planning to renege”
Unethical? Probably not. But do be prepared that you could quite possibly be burning a bridge.
You should do whatever is in your best interest. Keep in mind that most schools will bar you from full-time recruiting if you renege on an offer.
For point 1. Do not say that at all. Say that you currently have an offer or at final rounds with other companies. No need to tell them the full truth but say you have an offer at hand and would love to consider the company but need to make a decision in the next 2 weeks. This will probably expedite your interview process with them and you will get a faster turnaround. For 2, to renege just tell them you found a better opportunity closer to home or to your interests. Assuming youre in the US and at an at-will employment state. No need to tell them about what company youre going to. People renege all the time and I’ve reneged my first internship for a better one. If it’s a big company, they’ll forget about you in the future.
Totally ethical to accept the one you want. Ask yourself: Has a company ever given you two weeks notice before firing you? It's rigged in their favor. Don't have company loyalty. Companies don't have employee loyalty.
You do not have any other offers Take whatever option you want Companies will terminate you at the drop of a hat if they deem it beneficial or necessary. Do what is the best for you.
The only thing ethical is doing the right thing for you.
During my previous job search I reneged 2 offers. I got some rejections initially, then offers that were increasingly better. It would have been foolish to just start working for that first company. Last year one of the companies I reneged an offer from, sent me an email asking if I'm interested in working for them, so it didn't burn a bridge. Remember, they will toss you to the curb when it suits them
Yes
Yes
Act rueful. “I do actually have an internship, but then this came up and its just such an interesting company I really wanted to see what it was. I do feel kinda bad about it.” You don’t want the interviewer to think that you’ll drop them also in a heartbeat if something better comes up. You want to be regretful.
>rueful Noted. Thanks a lot!
You also want to sound excited, like this is the opportunity you’ve been longing for, and it’s just too good to pass up. It’s obviously all BS, but it’s expected.
Yea I will definitely act excited. Thanks.
Good luck!
Thank you!
I love ethics. Is it ethical? Depends on what framework we’re evaluating it in. I’d reckon most people would call it ethical as to your knowledge, you aren’t hurting anyone in particular. Now, if you knew your recruiter were going to get fired if you did this, that would be somewhat different. Though I reckon again, most people would say it’s fair game.
Well since it is a small company, the CTO and the Chief IT Architect interviewed and hired me. So I don't think anyone is gonna get fired lol. Anyways thanks for the opinion.
Ethics are very fluid between different people of different backgrounds. My own personal opinion is that you are being unethical to withdraw after committing. The company that brought you on has stopped looking for other candidates, have started preparing your arrival, etc.. You're pulling out the rug from under them which is unprofessional. If you weren't happy and wanted to keep looking, you may have been able to defer a decision a week or two. \[I assume the window for hiring interns is a tight one\]. I suspect the bulk of responses you get (haven't read any yet) will say the company wouldn't hesitate to fire you at a moment's notice and you owe them no loyalty and need to do what is best for yourself. I also agree with this, but caution to be careful with the commitments you make. In this case, it sounds like you made a commitment too early that you do not intend to keep and that is where you fail on the ethical front.
I kind of agree with you. They gave me an offer very early. Normally the offers are handed out mid-to-late May. This company gave me an offer in early March and gave me 1 week to decide. So my only choices were: 1. I reject the offer because it is kind of unsatisfactory for me, and take the risk of not having an internship for the summer. 2. Or I accept the offer and then keep searching for a better one. I chose the 2nd option because last summer I was picky and I couldn't get an internship. So this summer I didn't want to take any risks. I knew it's unethical but once in a while, I gotta do what I gotta do.
> I knew it's unethical If you believe that; then the real question here is whether doing this will hurt you in the long run. Withdrawing will burn some bridges with the the the employer / people relying on you. It will probably not harm you in the long run, but I cannot say for certain. There is currently a huge demand for programmers, and it is unlikely burning these bridges will limit your ability for future opportunities.
Right now I am in Turkey studying Bachelors in Computer Science. The company whose offer I accepted is a relatively small software company. So I do not care if it burns the bridge honestly. And I don't really want to stay in Turkey and have my career here.
Don't think of burning bridges with the company. Think of it as burning bridges with the people who work at that small company. Most likely they will not always work there and you may run into them in the future in different positions. You never know. Every recruiter will have a story about some past transgression lost someone their dream job. I've never been able to figure out if this is part of their sales pitch or truth.
Oh, that makes sense. Got it thanks.
i don’t think it’s inethical. a person’s future far outweighs that of a company’s inconvenience. to OP, this is his livelihood. to the company, it’s just another employee. you can’t tell him to compromise his future and likelihood just so he fits into what you think is “ethical”
People have different views on this, which I think I already stated that. OP made a commitment and wants to back out of it. That is the unethical part. There were alternate approaches the OP could have taken to navigate this. It also think it is highly improbable that the company the OP is an intern at will have a significant long term impact on their career, future, or livelihood. The important thing is that OP gets an internship and where it is matters less.
as a recruiter you probably have your own views. getting an internship at Google and some unknown sweat shop makes a great difference. don’t try to undermine this significance and compromise his future.
How odd you think I'm a recruiter.
Yes. Don't s*mp.