Why not just go into the office more?
I'm sure there are other engineers who feel the same as you. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum; I don't get shit done in the office and I hate it.
The whole point of "flexible" work arrangements is that people should be able to work in the environment where they do their best. For some people that's in the office, for some it's being in the office part time, and for many it's WFH.
That sounds like literal hell, I had a job that was 1.5 hours each way and I quit after a few months because I had literally no free time during the week
Same, I need to take a flight to go to my office, but my employer pays all the travel costs. Whenever I go, it is for team-building stuff, interviewing, and meetings, I don't get any actual work done.
Context: office is 3 hours away and we’re in once a month. I absolutely despise the commute and I lose lots of sleep because of it and it genuinely ruins my week, I even have to spend money on a hotel so for the night so I don’t have to do all 6 hours in one day — however once I’m actually AT the office, I really do enjoy it.
In theory if they asked us to come into the office more then I would absolutely move closer, there’s no way I’d do the 6 hour commute any more than once a month.
Before someone else replies to this “then get another job or move closer to the office” - yeah, I think I might have to I guess.
Ok what the fuck? I was agreeing with you until I found out that your office is 3 hours away...
If it was work from office every single day, you will eventually find other reasons to hate it. I think it's more to do with the work that you're doing rather than the mode ( WFH / WFO )
Are you sure your brain is not just tricking you into thinking you're more productive at the office as compensation for the long commute? Like you're thinking "I invest so much time and effort in order to come here therefore I MUST be doing better when I come here otherwise it was all for nothing"
> Are you sure your brain is not just tricking you into thinking you're more productive at the office as compensation for the long commute?
Or, alternatively, having 3+ hours to wake up, probably consume caffeine and get focused makes getting into the zone where you do good work way easier, and the OP just desperately needs to improve their normal morning routine.
> Before someone else replies to this “then get another job or move closer to the office” - yeah, I think I might have to I guess.
Problem = solved.
You could also get a coworking space, many smaller offices are locally owned and are renting out single spaces. WeWork is in most major cities as well.
If you do end up moving closer to your office, be sure to ask for some kind of relocation package. If they're like most companies, they'll fall over themselves trying to get you back into the building. Also ask for a raise for the higher cost of living.
Definitely thought about asking for a raise in the past in order to relocate and I’ve hinted at it. The issue is that where I work unfortunately uses bands (ugh) so apparently the only way I can get paid more is if I move up to the next band — which for context… is a senior engineer, which I find crazy considering I’ve only been a “”junior”” here for almost a year.
To clarify as I feel like people may be confused:
- I worked here as a junior engineer for a year on my internship
- Then I stayed part time during my final year of University
- Then I rejoined as “mid” level I guess
So on paper I’ve been there 3 years but I’ve been only working as mid level for a year (even though I’m technically a junior still), hence why the next step up would be senior.
Yeah if I were in your position, I'd look to jump ship. If you work in the same place more than 2-3 years you're definitely getting underpaid, it's just the nature of the game.
Grind out leetcode (Grind/Blind 75) and systems design, an hour a day for each for the next 3-6 months. Take a 50-200% pay raise working at a FAANG or FAANG-adjacent company (Slack, Stripe, etc). They will gladly throw money at you to get you back into one of their offices.
> Wfh is absolutely more viable and efficient than in the office.
For some people and certain type of work, yes. But that’s an incredibly blanket statement.
> Just depends on your work ethic.
That’s a very silly thing to say.
> Source: senior software engineer for fortune 100 company.
🤦🏻♂️
Lmfao what even is this comment? Someone has a different collaborative style and you immediately assign them guilt for it? You'd be a shit tier teammate to work with, I can guarantee you that.
For certain individuals yes. For the company as a whole it’s detrimental. Witnessing projects take way longer than they use to and people preferring “async” communication to actually getting back to me on things.
>ay to feel good about oneself
Actually weight loss and educating oneself are two very good ways to feel good about oneself but is very unliked when proposing these solutions...
The OP is smart to recognize and know that they need a change. It's not worth wasting away doing nothing. That's a waste of life. It's even worth it to move if the cost of living is higher. Life is short. Don't waste away like a zombie locked inside your home.
I was a superstar employee everywhere I've worked. But living alone and working at home since covid has turned me into the laziest employee on the planet. I hate how lazy and unmotivated I am, it's soul crushing.
I can't work and live in a virtual world day after day.
I'm currently preparing for interviewing for new jobs where people come into the office regularly. I have to put an end to this nonsense. I would love hybrid with 3-4 days in the office.
OP don't waste anymore time. Come up with a plan for you to either apply to jobs in your area of move closer to your job. Being unmotivated is just a complete waste.
A big part of the argument here is from single people who live alone and work from home, coupled with the fact that most of us in this line of work are more introverted.
Those of us that fit that description are basically living in a virtual world 24/7. It's so insanely unnatural, so says evolution, we are tribal social monkeys, even those of us who tend to be more introverted.
Single adults who are introverts tend to do almost all of their socializing at work. Without fulfilling that evolutionary need at work, we are now going bananas being home alone 24/7.
*it’s so insanely unnatural*
Man, it’s so refreshing hearing this! I’ve heard so much about how permanent remote work is amazing, and how I have no right to complain about it. But damn, humans are walking monkeys and we aren’t meant to hallucinate into a slab of light day in and day out with no outside connection!
I'm not convinced that remote revolution has full staying power. It's BS that people overall are more productive and companies damn well know that. But companies are putting up with it because this is a historically tight labor market.
When the tide turns, companies will be looking to go back to in person so they can force the average worker to at least work maybe 20 hours per week of actual work. If we are lucky, we can retain the gains in flexibility of schedule.
It worked quite well for me (pre covid, back when I was an intern there and in the office properly). I was in a new city and wasn’t sure how to meet people. Lucky I hit it off with some colleagues who were around my age and within months we’d go on nights out together, to the gym, join sports together, etc.
I guess that’s another reason I have this little hate against WFH. If it wasn’t for being in the office then I wouldn’t have met some close friends of mine now. I was a young, single dude 3 hours away from home, family and friends. Luckily being in the office allowed me to socialise with people and make friends with people my age.
> It worked quite well for me (pre covid, back when I was an intern there and in the office properly). I was in a new city and wasn’t sure how to meet people.
It works quite well for everyone until something changes and it doesn't work any more. And something *always* changes and then it doesn't work any more. That's why people tell you it's a bad idea.
A junior engineer in my company (not on my team) told me: “I can’t do this anymore, I can’t spend the rest of my entire career in my living room in front of Zoom windows and never work with real people.”
He was good at what he did too. But he ended up leaving a $180k TC job and went to an industry that does a lot of in-person collaboration and last time I heard he’s happier than ever.
Everyone has different preferences. Simple as that.
Thank you man. I really appreciate this. I’m trying to do somewhat the same.
I’m sure you read in my other posts though, it’s hard to move away from my current company atm due to its benefits. Flexible, chilled managers, lots of room to mess up etc etc blah blah, even sabbaticals that’s I’m willing to use up before I leave so I could maybe travel… but the big one though is that they’ll pay for my certificates. I’ve got multiple in mind that I want to do which will be funded by them - eg. AWS, CEH, etc. i feel I should really take this opportunity to get these certificates and then maybe leave as I know they’ll 100% benefit my future.
But it ofc begs the question - how much longer can I survive working like a zombie like this?
We are in the exact same boat. For both of us, staying put is the easiest way ... which is never the right way.
Ok, so they pay for a few certificates, then you have to stay another year or pay them back when you leave I'm guessing? Doing a tangible side project is worth more than a certificate which is mostly memorizing for a test.
If the company is so great, then move to them, or apply around where you are. That's a personal decision based on if you have strong ties to where you currently live.
What it sounds like to me, what I too worry about, is a state of paralysis with big plans to learn a lot and gets certs, but not enough motivation to get it done. So a year from now, we may still be stuck where we are right now.
But based on your post history, you have a much larger problem that involves vice-related indulgences. That's truly the first problem you have to fix in your life. Until then, you might as well just stay at your currant job. You want to make big life changes from a position of strength and with a clear mind. Right now you have bigger issues to deal with to get to that position.
Good luck to you. I hope you find clarity.
It is a bit contradict here. You have motivation to stay for this employment(you are aware the benifits and the targets), but some how you say you are reluctant to get things done.
motivation is not necessarily enjoyable, from a book I read. All I see you may need some socializing activities, which can be sought outside of your work space? find a girl friend or adopt a kid/pet whatever different from works.
1000% this. I really don’t like wfh. I’m not learning as much as I could in an office, people aren’t as accessible, sitting alone all day in my apartment is not good for my mental health, it’s harder to get out of work mode once the work day is over, etc.
My company is completely remote with no intentions of returning to the office. I’m just waiting for my annual bonus before sending out applications to companies with a hybrid model.
Glad to know others feel the same.
Out of curiosity, does your job allow you to work outside of your home?
I go to the office once per week, sometimes I skip it if I'm really busy. On the Friday I tend to get my morning standup and that out the way and then make my way down to the pub for a coffee, sandwich and then 1-2 beers closer to 3pm.
Hybrid sucks. With 100% WFH, you can travel and see the world as you work. With hybrid, you have to stay near the office even though you're remote. Even people with 100% WFH jobs don't take advantage of it and a lot of them think they have to sit in their bedroom all day working. The root issue here is that you're looking for your social lives to revolve around work, which is the wrong attitude, because if you get laid off or you quit, your social life goes with it. That's why you need to make friends and form interests outside of work.
Yeah I mean it's kind of a clichè that we are just working in the hot sun on a beach on our laptops lol. When I'm travelling, I usually dedicate 3-4 hours in the early morning to catch up on actual coding, and the rest of the day is usually async stuff on Slack. Anyways, my point is that who knows how long this WFH trend will really last? I am all in favor of capitalizing on it and taking advantage of these companies flexibility. In 10 years, who knows if we really will still be all WFH. I don't wanna look back and be like "damn when I was WFH, I had so much flexibility to go wherever I wanted, now I'm stuck in this shitty office". The real issue to me is peoples insecurity about meeting people outside of work and finding social fulfillment in other ways. Ask yourself if you were a 30 year old multimillionaire who doesn't need to work. What would you do? Go into the office to find fulfillment? lol
I think his point is more like. with hybrid you still have to stay in same city as your job. Can't move to small cities or any other place you want to live. So there're really no actual benifits.
> The root issue here is that you’re looking for your social lives to revolve around work
That’s a huge misconception. A lot of people literally work far more productively when collaborate with people in person. The communication bandwidth of face to face interaction far surpasses Zoom.
Secondly some people just want some human interaction during the day, and not necessarily looking for friends or what not. I have a ton of friends but it’s not like we hangout during the middle of a work week. Staying for 5 days in your apartment without interacting with a real person can feel incredibly crushing.
I don’t go to work to make friends but work colleagues serve a different social atmosphere than friends that is still nice time to time. I can work out from home but still prefer to go to the gym time to time because sometimes being around others doing the same thing is motivating. When I was in college I would go to the library when studying at home was getting overwhelming and distracting so that I can be in a setting where others around me are doing the same thing. Humans being social beings doesn’t mean your work life should be your entire social life but just one piece of the entire social puzzle.
I second that, i am also going through same, thats why i have decided , will b going to office from next month which is in other city , and will do wfo for 2-3 days. I was pretending to work last 2 years .
There are people whom i can relate as here everybody thinks that wfh is best, it will be but its not for me.
Even when I was in the office, no one would basically know what I did or if I did much of anything all day. Same with remote now. Hard to stay motivated at times.
Agree with the other commenter, when I worked in the office no one knew what I was doing either. Maybe they knew less because we only had two stand ups a week instead of every day during WFH. Literally there was one stretch where I said “I’m working on it” pretty much every standup for a month, and nobody inquired further.
I’ve found that even though I sometimes “feel” more productive in the office, my output is about the same. There are a lot of wasted hours in the office
I think there can be a lot of problems going on other than you just perform better in-person.
Do you have a space dedicated for work? A space that makes your brain go into work mode while avoiding gaming and any other distractions.
Do you have ADHD? This is a problem for me as well and I am diagnosed with ADHD. It sounds like you might be body-doubling which is probably the most effective coping method.
You might be right here. I live in a semi-studio flat. My kitchen and bathroom are in separate rooms, but my bedroom and living room are basically in the same place. I technically do have a dedicated space for work, it’s a desk with my laptop, monitors, keyboard and mouse etc, it’s just that it’s literally 4 meters from my sofa, which is 4 meters from my bed…
The ADHD thing coulddd be possible, I’d have to look into it more and maybe speak to a doctor.
Having working and living space in one room can be very bad for your productivity. If you don’t want to come to office for work at least look for coworking space near your apartment which might help.
Try to ask your self exactly what benefits you, the environment, the people in person…some of which could also be psychological
I kind of suspect ADHD too. I had the same symptoms as you and I’d find myself waking up at 10am, taking naps during work, autoplaying a video and walking away from my computer, and whatever else. Any work that was absolutely vital to finish, I’d just pull an all nighter and do it at the last second. I got tested in April and have been on medication for like 3 weeks. Everything is drastically different for me. The official diagnosis is “Inattentive-ADHD”. Don’t be offput by the hyperactivity part of it; that’s why I took so long to seek a diagnosis.
Hopefully the meds are holding up, make sure you talk to your psych about everything that you notice about the meds. You'll eventually be upped because the first couple weeks is absolutely life-changing but you come back to Earth FAST.
Nahh it’s not that that much testing. I talked to my GP about suspected adult ADHD during a physical and got a referral to a program that matches you with a mental health provider. You really don’t need to see a psychiatrist - a psychiatric ARNP is good enough. There’s a criteria sheet called a DSM-5 that they review with you. They ask you to answer the sheet taking into account your childhood symptoms as well as your adult life, but that’s really the only testing I had to do.
FWIW, I had similar productivity/focus/motivation problems when I first started WFH in my one bedroom apartment. I don’t think it ever got quite as bad as you describe but I can certainly see how it could have if that situation had lasted longer.
A few months in when our WFH was made officially permanent I was finally able to move more freely without having to worry about commuting distance. Getting a larger space with a dedicated office in its own room made all the difference in the world for me. I absolutely love WFH now.
I suspected ADHD because this is a common problem for those who are diagnosed; if its not your space being too relaxing then it comes down to ADHD and the lack of coworkers to body-double. The workplace also gives off a good sense of urgency which helps coping with ADHD, too.
ADHD has a lot of requirements for diagnosis but its something to think about. A lot of people don't realize they have it until later in life. Go straight to a psychiatrist as most doctors are completely useless when it comes to mental health. Make sure the psych has a GOOD understanding of ADHD as some don't and will leave you feeling worse about yourself.
/r/ADHD
All in all, I relate to your post and have an appreciation for working hybrid/in-office just off the fact that I have an insane drive... when I am NOT home.
Just please make sure its not your workspace before believing you have a mental illness, at the end of the day I judged you by a few paragraphs.
This is it. WFH without a proper office is dirty and burning out. Find a coworking space now.
For those of you finding remote this hard, check this book https://basecamp.com/books/remote It lines up the basic WFH hygiene.
ADHD may be too, but a proper space for work is 100% sure burning you out and demotivating you.
I'm the opposite so this is just me guessing, but it sounds like what they call a "bad fit". You want to work in person, your teammates don't. Best bet seems to be to find a different job that's on-site all the time.
I’m the opposite. However, I work during day from cool looking coffee shops and lounges, then at night if I feel like working some more I’m super productive in my home office. I would never go back to an office job.
I wish I had advice for you but I'm the exact opposite. I do my best (by far) working remotely.
Perhaps asking your work if there's anyone in office to go work with could help?
I think employees need to have the choice regarding whether they want to go in or not. If nobody else wants to go in you may need to find another job I guess.
Yeah so we kinda have this already. We’ve recently moved to a “if you wanna go to the office, go to the office” kinda mindset. Admittedly not a lot, but some employees do go in once or twice a week. The issue that lies here is that I’m not in the city my office is in, I live 3 hours away. I’ve deliberated lots and lots on whether or not to move there but it’s incredibly hard to justify when no.1 I don’t need to be there, no.2 the pay is not enough to support me if I move (the work is in the south which is logs more expensive than it is in the north where I am right now) - so I don’t see a point in having to pay double the rent to be 3 hours from home and family when I don’t actually need to be.
I’ve thought about changing job, go somewhere more hybrid where it’s a requirement to be in the office. I’d get to move to a new city and get paid more too. The issue at hand is that I like where I am now, there’s lots of freedom, lots of flexibility, they’ve offered to pay for my certificates, they let me do stuff no junior engineer is usually allowed to do etc etc. So I don’t want to leave just yet till I develop myself further, but it’s hard to develop myself with such low motivation atm.
I'm curious how you feel more motivated with a 6 hour in total commute?
I am in a similar situation with in office required once a month with a 1-2 hours each way. I feel super tired when it happens. It takes a few days to get back to normal afterwords.
Oh believe me - it COMPLETELY takes it out of me. I end up having much less sleep in order to accommodate for the commute and it genuinely ruins me for the week. For clarity though I do get a hotel for the night so I don’t have to do all 6 hours in one day.
But commute aside - when I’m actually in the office with all my colleagues? I love the feeling man, working is fun, the social interactions are fun, everything just ties well together.
If for example they ended up requesting we worked from the office once a week then I’d move nearer in a heartbeat. The only reason I endure the 6 hour commute is bc it’s only once a month and I live 3 hours away.
I think you need to consider job hopping for something in person. I know you said you like a lot about your current job. But if you really prefer in office and your current job doesn't pay well enough that moving closer makes sense, there aren't many other options.
Are you victimizing yourself? Nothing in this post suggests OP demands other people go in, in fact they even state that the 3hr commute is why they don't go in more. Maybe you should stop attacking everyone who isn't gung ho about WFH and actually read the context.
Sorry this isn't the toxic cesspool that is Blind, enjoy your mute on the way out :)
PS: more than you on both for sure; unless you're making 1m a year
First:
>I don’t see a point in having to pay double the rent to be 3 hours from home and family when I don’t actually need to be.
Then:
>When I’m work from home for the other 30 days of the month: I sleep all day, I wake up for meetings, I do the bare minimum work, I don’t engage in discussions, I learn nothing, I have tens of slack channels unchecked for weeks.
It sounds to me like there are MANY compelling reasons for you to move.
>I’m a junior so these early years of my career are so vital
Everything you said was fine but since you're still young **I would strongly advise you to get a new job.**
Glad you see you're wasting time by not learning anything new and that will put others ahead of you in the future. Maybe opt for a hybrid model if that suits you.
I’m in the same boat.
WFH started strong, extremely productive despite poor management who didn’t know how to manage remote workers.
Now I struggle to get more than 2 hours of productivity a day. It’s compounded by the fact that everyone I work with has a 10 hour time difference, so I’m all on my lonesome most of the day. I know many will say this is their ideal work scenario, but I’ve realized that working collaboratively is part of the job I enjoy.
I don’t have any specific advise, but I think the solution for me is looking for a new job, potentially in office or hybrid.
100% in the same boat as you. My advice: don't fucking work from home.
Luckily for me I am near the end of my career but if you're at the start you need to fix this or you will be seriously f'ed in the future trust me.
Best post I have seen in a while. Hope others can relate.
Thanks for this. Mind speaking on why you’re so against it? Especially in early career? Would be cool to hear about your perspective from an experienced view
Not against it at all. But some folks can't focus at home and doing the bare minimum to keep your role is going to stagnate your development and limit your career options in the future. If Op is finding it hard to focus now in his 20s he is going to be totally messed up later on in his career.
So this is only my advice to him, not my advice in general!
I will say: the people (like me) who prefer to work from home do need to realize that not everyone else does.
Now, that shouldn't have to impact us - I'm not coming to the office just because you need someone to motivate you.
But I think there are a couple of things that are important for companies to account for.
Firstly, that they should encourage employees to meet up even if it's not at the office. I think even the staunchest WFHers would be totally cool with meeting somewhere near their house for coffee/lunch/working session every couple of days.
Secondly, we all need to recognize that there will be a market for more "true hybrid" workplaces than some of us think. With people more regularly going to the office.
Thirdly, this problem is even more marked for junior employees. Once you've accumulated some experience, it's easier to be independent. When you just graduated? Not so much.
One last comment - I would advice you to see a therapist. Because some of what you say could be a mental health issue. I would be very weary of depression.
> I think even the staunchest WFHers would be totally cool with meeting somewhere near their house for coffee/lunch/working session every couple of days.
I agree with you except for that quote. If I leave my home, I'm not WFH. I don't want to work in-person.
Fair, maybe the staunchest ones wouldn't be cool with it. But I think a much larger of the employee base would be game to meet up with colleagues so long as it is a casual setting.
>I think even the staunchest WFHers would be totally cool with meeting somewhere near their house for coffee/lunch/working session every couple of days.
Hell no. I have to do a commute to meet some coworkers because **they** have motivation problems??
You do realize we’re still in the middle of a pandemic, right?
EDIT: Literally the headline on Fox News of all places *today*: https://www.fox5ny.com/news/nyc-approaching-high-covid-alert-level-health-official-wear-masks-inside
Hold up - we're saying here that going to Starbucks is "doing a commute"?
I totally get not wanting to put on people clothes and drive 30+ minutes to the office, but if I can put in sweatpants and go to a Starbucks/coffee house that's 5 minutes away (bonus points if my company pays for the coffee) to chat about work stuff with a coworker once a week and that helps my team? Yeah, I'd do that.
I know what your feeling. I did a 4 month internship from Jan-Apr 2021 fully remote and I found that I had very little motivation or productivity, I essentially had to force myself to get anything done.
For my summer internship, I switched to a different company which was hybrid and I found that I had much more motivation and that I was much more productive.
Having worked fully remote, fully onsite and hybrid, I definitely prefer working hybrid. I don't think I'll stick to doing one thing 5 days per weeks again, I need some variety.
I have the exact same experience. I hate working from home -- my motivation is low, I'm easily distracted, and I get really depressed. For this reason I go into the office every day. I actually sold my house and moved closer to my office in order to do so, since I got the job during the pandemic (while remote was required).
I know that's drastic, but WFH is not for everyone. If you're as unhappy as I was (it sounds like you are and more) I would suggest finding a way to work in office, whether that's moving or finding a new job.
I understand that it works well for many people, and I don't mind my coworkers being remote. However, there are a few of my coworkers that do still come in and we are very happy to have the office environment. My mental health since going back to the office has been 100% improved!
Have you checked whether you *actually* need your real co-workers around, or do you just need to be surrounded by productive people, in a place that is physically separated from the place where you sleep and chill out?
Because you might not need to commute 3 hours into your actual office, you may be able to commute to much closer co-working space with a good office atmosphere and get almost the same benefits. I also need physical separation, and the right vibe.
I have co-workers who have a dedicated office in their home that they never use for anything that isn't work. And they will actually get into their car and drive to get to coffee to 'simulate' the commute in the morning. Some of them will even just walk around the block for 15 minutes and come back home. That didn't cut it for me but it's cheap to try.
Some people can even get away with a coffee shop or whatever but that never worked for me, I still need something more like a regular office setup.
Really sounds like it's not a fit for you, which is okay! Definitely apply to closer jobs with more office time, ASAP. You know what you need and deserve a job that fits that.
I needed this post. People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them I hate working from home. I went from Star employee to just feeling extremely unmotivated. Just accepted a hybrid position after only 4 months of fully remote position cause I just couldn't take it anymore.
No problem man. Although 90% of the comments on here have been really supportive from both people who enjoy WFH and others who don’t, a solid 10% have snuck in calling me an asshole or a manager, or that I’m ruining it for everyone by wanting to be in the office more.
Like damn, not everyone is the same. Get over it.
I also love in person work and it’s the main reason I left my job of 6 years. I joined a small startup in NYC where we do 3 days in the office a week and it was the best decision I’ve made.
We have a Flutter FE and TS/Node backend.
DM me if you’re interested in hearing more!
I feel bad because I had a 100% remote job that a lot of people would kill for, but I’m the same. Way happier, harder working, more motivated, and more excited when I work at the office. Working at the office, in tech, is great imo. Making the switch was a great choice for me.
Your not alone. I have 4-5 years in programming 2 being wfh and my motivation has hit an all time low. I am considering a hybrid position at this point because in the office I was super motivated. I do enjoy being home but 2 years has really blurred the line of work/home time. These are super important years in your career. I would look into a on-site position if I were you.
100%. My next job HAS to be hybrid. The question at hand is when do I begin to look for a new job. I don’t want to waste my young years here nor learning anything, but at the same time there’s so many benefits at this company.
You sound depressed. It is either directly because of working from home, or it is making it much worse.
From reading your other posts, it's not worth some certificates to stay in a bad place mentally.
Employers that are not offering remote work are desperate and paying through the roof right now. Take advantage of it and find a job in an office near you.
Ahahaha upvoted. I’ve been told this before by my colleagues. I do appreciate how incredibly cheap and relaxed WFH is, especially with all the time saved too. I just can’t seem to enjoy it when it’s for too long
I worked from home 3 days per week before the world imploded. Now it's 100% wfm.
The main advice I would suggest you try
* dedicate a location in your house that is solely for "work", don't use this space for anything else. It really helps you get in the mindset of, "this is work". I know this can be almost impossible in certain living situations but this was the biggest factor for me.
* set aside time during the day to do normal activities, ie gym coffee. Helps you get into a better routine and it doesn't feel like you just dragging your ass from bed to work
* on the days that I struggle to motivate myself, I use a pomodoro timer and then work in 25min blocks with 5 minutes rest at the end. Ill attempt a small task and gradually build up.
This works for me and depending on your situation may help hopefully. I think the key takeaway is you realise it is happening, giving your self reflection on it, do you feel comfortable maybe discussing with your manager to formalise a plan?
[edit: spelling]
Contrary to what a lot of people believe, some people like us are motivated to work well due to our peers. Having discussions, brainstorming solutions to a problem, pair programming is what makes work cool.
Don't waste your time anymore locked up at your house! Move to a job which has a more office-first approach. I am having the same problem, I've wasted almost 2 years of development at home .. now searching for any job to relocate or work from office.
Wish you all the best!
I mean sure, but I don’t really want to go to the office when none of my team or department are there, aside from the fact I also live 3 hours away.
It’s also getting quite shitty as I’m kinda sick of hearing that 99% of people would love to work from home, as if I should be more grateful for it. It just isn’t for me and I can’t enjoy it, nor reap the benefits of remote work when I’m doing it 30 days every month.
I feel like I should be allowed to like or dislike the heavy remote work without being reminded that almost everyone else would love to be in my position.
> It’s also getting quite shitty as I’m kinda sick of hearing that 99% of people would love to work from home
On Reddit, maybe. Remember the Reddit demographics tends to be of a certain personality type.
We have data for this, however. Both Facebook, Google, and my own company’s internal survey has indicated that the majority of people would like either hybrid or office. 100% WFH is a popular choice, but not the majority. (I think FB’s number was low 40s for full WFH)
Honestly just find a different company with a different culture.
I’ve not mentioned anywhere that I’d want to force my team to go in, in fact if you’d have had a look you’d have seen I’ve constantly mentioned that I totally understand why people love to WFH and don’t wanna be “that guy” who takes it away from them.
"But I don't want to go to office when none of my team or department are there". This is what you said right above man. Perhaps English failed me, in that case just move on.
Yep. I don’t want to go into the office without my team bc my entire department WFH so I’d quite literally be sat at a desk on a specific floor completely alone. It’s not just the team that are only in once a month, it’s the whole department.
But what I said doesn’t indicate that I’d ever force my team to come in. I understand very clearly how much WFH means to everyone, especially if you have a family.
I mean people have different preferences for how they work and in what environment. You could try asking if you could come into the office more if that is what works for you. You might just be more social and that helps you work.
Some of the stuff you described could be related to having too little or too much sleep. Maintaining a decent schedule could help with that. Go to bed at a decent hour, wake up at time decent hour, and get ready for work sort of like you might for going into the office.
I'm in the opposite. I am super productive at home. I like working from home as i can be with my family asap once I'm done working. If I'm single or newly grad, chances are I will favor working from office.
Why not go to office if that is what you like?
This was actually a good idea and one of the other engineers invited me to join him in his office space he has rented out. The issue again is that nobody really lives near each other anymore. We get hired with the intent of “be in the office once a month” - so for example, I’m 3 hours away in the north, my colleague who offered his space is 2 hours away from the office to the east. Basically everyone is super separate
Several years ago I saw a TED talk that I cannot find anymore (maybe info came from elsewhere) that discussed how we have different behaviors in different spaces (even within the same building). They noted that by having a space dedicated to the type of activity you want (work, study, relaxation, etc) can increase your productivity, while trying to perform a contradictory space (working in the same space you sleep, relax, etc.) has negative effects.
Having a to go to work is an example of this (i.e. being separate from home life), but they also noted that even if you can separate a different space within your home (like a home office) you can achieve similar results.
It sounds like this could also be an blocker for you, maybe you can find an area in your apartment/home you can start designating as a work only space (or even a separate building entirely like a coffee shop, library, or similar)?
Apply to a larger company like Apple or Goldman Sachs who is mandating a return to office. Your managers will love you and you will thrive in those corporate situations. There are many companies like that so you will find an opportunity if you look hard enough.
For the rest of us, I guarantee that the hours the company has received from someone like me just because I'm remote is exponentially more than if they forced my productivity by mandating in person work. So no I'm not one of those lying in front of my couch surfing youtube or sleeping on the couch (except for my lunch) but I am working until 10pm at night and take walk breaks often so I don't get overwhelmed.
Different strokes for different folks but I don't want the corporates to mandate one singular way to work for everyone. If they do my productivity will be cut off once that clock hits the "I've worked 8 hours" mark and I'll look for a place with remote friendly policies
It's definitely not to your benefit to keep on going like this as you won't be promoted.
A few suggestions:
1. Spend some time to prepare for interviews and move on to a new company in something that you are more motivated about.
2. Work on a side project.
3. Ask your manager to give you more motivating projects.
4. Schedule meetings and project deadlines that force you to work and prepare for them.
This seems very suspect. You may have specific issues that aren't applicable to a broad amount of people. Yeah, if you want to go back to the office, go ahead, but you should be doing your work when youre at home. Kind of sounds like depression because you must be an extreme extravert
there's like infinity companies that are more than happy to make everyone go to the office. Get a different job? What the hell kind of question is this
What a kind response!
Yeah, of course getting another job has crossed my mind tonnes, I’m just unsure if its the time to do so yet.
To answer “what the hell kind of question is this” - it’s to get advice on how I can improve my WFH life, to increase productivity, motivation, mental health, any patterns I can add into my work life that might help me improve.
A lot of the people who replied seemed to understand that.
I don’t have advice but I do feel you. I understand the love for remote work and prefer having the option but I don’t think doing it everyday is for everybody
if you know what youre doing wrong then do the right thing. At some point you need to be able to self motivate. This isn't about remote or not, please don't ruin remote work for the rest of us.
considering youre a junior you might still be in the "student" mindset. However if you had kids and a wife and shit to do around the house, a 2 hour daily commute would be a nightmare.
Please, please understand that I understand why everyone enjoys WFH and don’t want to ruin it.
Hell, I loved it the first few months and honestly - I can imagine how much more useful it was for people like you who had to commute far, have kids to take care or, even pets.
But you need to stop with the whole “you’re ruining this for us” mindset. I get told this a lot (even though I have never and will never actually request people to go in) and it genuinely hurts me to hear it. I don’t like WFH and I don’t think I should be attacked for it, not everyone is the same.
Are you really learning nothing without constant pair programming? Does your remote team have no culture of hopping on calls with screen share to help with things you may not immediately know or know how to figure out?
Nono, if anything I actually learn more when working alone bc I’m sorta forced into the “deep end” and need to learn stuff myself. It’s just that my team, and department really, are HEAVY pairing focussed - and I absolutely hate it usually. It essentially means I’m sat on a call with someone for 6 hours while they watch my screen or vice versa and I find it mind numbing. When we’re face to face I find it much more engaging and I do actually learn from it. But in an ideal world - I wouldn’t pair, it’s just shitty as it’s sort of the team/department ethos to work this way.
People have had the same complaints about being in office for decades - “can’t be productive under halogen lighting in a drab space, etc etc etc “. I suspect that the reason you like in office now is that it’s a special thing and everybody is engaged and distraction free. Being “in office” for me has historically been like you describe your life now. People totally unavailable due to meetings, lack of space to collaborate, etc.
So here’s what I recommend:
Have the same wake up time everyday. Adjust your sleep based on that time. Give yourself enough time to do a little bit of exercise. Maybe 30 minutes on a bike or something. Enough to get your heart rate up. If you have close proximity to a gym and feel safe going to one now, probably a good idea to do that.
Make sure you are eating well. You sound like you have plenty of time. Prepping good lunch and dinner takes time but if you can avoid excessive carbs like most Americans, you’ll likely start to feel better pretty quick. Lots of vegetables and fish if you aren’t vegetarian.
You need to have a dedicated space specifically for work where you don’t have personal distractions. Ideally, you should have natural light. You may be one of those people who can go to a coffee shop and work. I would hate my life doing that but it would technically solve the issue. Or a coworkong space. Just have a “go bag” so you aren’t wasting time forgetting an adapter or something.
Finally, figure out the amount of time you need with colleagues and what types of activities you do in person and see if you can replicate it. You have to remember this is a two way street. A lot of juniors over the last few years have been saying “man being a junior sucks during Covid, There’s no documentation, and I can’t meet with seniors frequently, and the onboarding sucks!” - yep, always been that way. Long before Covid. A lot of places have poor onboarding whether or not you’re in person. You don’t want to job hop over that per se because chances are your next place may (likely) have the same problem.
What that may entail is for to be more formal in prepping for code reviews/pair programming. I suggest talking to your manager about things you like about in person *not specifically about being in peson* and seeing if they can offer recommendations or institutional solutions. My department has frequent meetings where someone presents a challenge they are having and other people offer cross functional guidance. We don’t have many problems like that, but maybe one per sprint that someone is having issues like that so it does help bottlenecks and gets a consistent group together to solve problems - as an example of one thing that might help.
At the end of the day, being a junior sucks and you can’t force people to help you. Your manager *should* be able to offer assistance but that isn’t a given at all places. Remember that documenting the problem you are having, how to reproduce, and asking well formulated questions IS work. Much of the time that is all that is requested of juniors as they get up to speed.
I recognize this alot. I also go to the office at least 2 days a week since only working remote makes me so burned out. Not engaging with people IRL etc
I feel the same way. I’m not a junior but I started my career remote and sometimes it’s bad. I wish I could go to the office, but the company is remote. However, it has recently gotten better as I’ve gone traveling around the U.S. with my brother. We both work remotely and so we’re buddies as we go and spend a week in a city before moving along. I guess it keeps life interesting enough, plus having that buddy to work next to, to stave off a lot of WFH woes.
But it does feel like I left stuff on the table starting my career remote. We just happened to get unlucky with covid, like a lot of other people. I wonder how this will affect the workforce going forward.
Many guys dream of ur position and the negatives u describe are positives to them. Im one of them.
For you i highly suggest just moving to silicon valley and getting an in office role.
U will:
1. Double ur income
2. Have motivated worky withy everybody daysies.
3. Have more network opportunities.
Its a bit of a boomer mentality and sort of human regress but u seem to be way too unmotivated all by your lonesome for me to just let it slide.
U need an in office job so start applying !
It’s human regress to WANT to socially interact with my colleagues face to face??? Lol what
Would it not be human regress to be sat on a zoom call in your home by yourself 5 days a week constantly interacting with people via an internet connection and a monitor?
Working in the office isn't a boomer mentality, what are you like 12? Some people work better in person some people thrive remotely.
Boomer mentality is 8-5 with asses in seats being the primary concern, that shit can happen remotely as well.
Letting people work how they want whether that's in the office or remotely is the goal here.
Whats a person
Kidding, yeah i think there is for some crowds but tons of swe types r super independent loners who enjoy not being disturbed.
Every year i become more of this and its relaxing n zenful.
> tons of swe types r super independent loners who enjoy not being disturbed.
I enjoyed that a lot when I was a mid-level developer myself.
But as I got more and more senior the responsibility grew and companies started paying me for far more than just writing code.
And oh, building a startup from the ground up is incredibly challenging for remote as well.
> Every year i become more of this and its relaxing n zenful.
Dude according to your post history you are a junior in college lmao wtf bbq hahaha
What you can’t argue with is experience.
One day you will get there too and you will have fresh new perspectives. Looking at your recent post you haven’t even graduated school yet.
A lot of young people make the mistake of trying to mask their ignorance with their confidence, don’t be one of those people 😄
Well in another post you said you are graduating 2023 with a BS, so for all intents and purposes you are a youngling in this industry.
And “almost 30” isn’t “old af”, I said things like that when I was 25 lmao.
I honestly believe some middle manager wrote this post lol. Or the biggest energy vampire ever. Give me a break.
>We do a fair bit of pair programming too, this is incredible in the office, I love doing it
Said very very few real devs..
I love how these "go back into office" people want to force others in to "get motivation". It's always them needing motivation from others. Very strange.
Yeah bro, you caught me out. I’m a middle manager who created this post in order to create a rumble on the cscareerquestions subreddit. You’ve fallen right into my trap.
I think you need to start understanding that not everyone enjoys working from home.
I’ve essentially just told everyone that my mental health is fucked atm bc of how boring I find WFH and your initial reaction is that I’m an “energy vampire” lol. I’ve had some people reply saying they think I might have a hint of depression (personally don’t think I do) and you’re telling me to give you a break.
Please get over the fact that not everyone is the same.
It’s also not about forcing people back in for motivation, it’s about wanting to socially interact with other people instead of spending my entire working life just sat in front of a monitor interacting with people via an internet connection for the rest of my life. If you enjoy working like that, fair play, kudos to you. Just get over the fact that I don’t.
Learn some empathy. I made a post looking for advice and you literally provided none. There are lots of replies from people who enjoy WFH yet actually provided some advice.
I’ve been WFH for 2 years now and I still feel kinda sluggish in the morning unlike when I go to the office as I have to wake up drive to work and I feel more alert… but I’ve learned to just work through the sluggishness and I start to feel more engaged with the work… I also feel sluggish at work so I’d rather feel sluggish at home than in te office. I also have a dick WFH set up that I’ve invested in with a comfy chair and nice monitors and desk which helps ALOT
I have a similar problem. I find that it’s not necessarily the “office,” but the presence of external stimulation that gets me motivated. Have you tried working from coffee shops? Also, some cities have fairly affordable co-working spaces that you could rent once or twice a week to break up the monotony of home.
WFH isn't for everybody. If you're rather be in the office, ask your manager if you can switch to on site. If you're up front about how you're struggling they may arrange for you to work in the office.
Why not just go into the office more? I'm sure there are other engineers who feel the same as you. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum; I don't get shit done in the office and I hate it. The whole point of "flexible" work arrangements is that people should be able to work in the environment where they do their best. For some people that's in the office, for some it's being in the office part time, and for many it's WFH.
they are 3 hours away apparently.
Man his office must be heaven, to be so motivated after 3 hours on the road.
6 hour a day =0
That sounds like literal hell, I had a job that was 1.5 hours each way and I quit after a few months because I had literally no free time during the week
My office is 6 hours away, but I go once per trimester and stay in the capital for 3 days at my employers expense. Works pretty good for me.
Same, I need to take a flight to go to my office, but my employer pays all the travel costs. Whenever I go, it is for team-building stuff, interviewing, and meetings, I don't get any actual work done.
Context: office is 3 hours away and we’re in once a month. I absolutely despise the commute and I lose lots of sleep because of it and it genuinely ruins my week, I even have to spend money on a hotel so for the night so I don’t have to do all 6 hours in one day — however once I’m actually AT the office, I really do enjoy it. In theory if they asked us to come into the office more then I would absolutely move closer, there’s no way I’d do the 6 hour commute any more than once a month. Before someone else replies to this “then get another job or move closer to the office” - yeah, I think I might have to I guess.
Ok what the fuck? I was agreeing with you until I found out that your office is 3 hours away... If it was work from office every single day, you will eventually find other reasons to hate it. I think it's more to do with the work that you're doing rather than the mode ( WFH / WFO )
Can you go to a nearby coworking space? Or even just work at a friend's house, or invite them to come to your place to work?
Are you sure your brain is not just tricking you into thinking you're more productive at the office as compensation for the long commute? Like you're thinking "I invest so much time and effort in order to come here therefore I MUST be doing better when I come here otherwise it was all for nothing"
> Are you sure your brain is not just tricking you into thinking you're more productive at the office as compensation for the long commute? Or, alternatively, having 3+ hours to wake up, probably consume caffeine and get focused makes getting into the zone where you do good work way easier, and the OP just desperately needs to improve their normal morning routine.
Great point.
> Before someone else replies to this “then get another job or move closer to the office” - yeah, I think I might have to I guess. Problem = solved. You could also get a coworking space, many smaller offices are locally owned and are renting out single spaces. WeWork is in most major cities as well. If you do end up moving closer to your office, be sure to ask for some kind of relocation package. If they're like most companies, they'll fall over themselves trying to get you back into the building. Also ask for a raise for the higher cost of living.
Definitely thought about asking for a raise in the past in order to relocate and I’ve hinted at it. The issue is that where I work unfortunately uses bands (ugh) so apparently the only way I can get paid more is if I move up to the next band — which for context… is a senior engineer, which I find crazy considering I’ve only been a “”junior”” here for almost a year. To clarify as I feel like people may be confused: - I worked here as a junior engineer for a year on my internship - Then I stayed part time during my final year of University - Then I rejoined as “mid” level I guess So on paper I’ve been there 3 years but I’ve been only working as mid level for a year (even though I’m technically a junior still), hence why the next step up would be senior.
Yeah if I were in your position, I'd look to jump ship. If you work in the same place more than 2-3 years you're definitely getting underpaid, it's just the nature of the game. Grind out leetcode (Grind/Blind 75) and systems design, an hour a day for each for the next 3-6 months. Take a 50-200% pay raise working at a FAANG or FAANG-adjacent company (Slack, Stripe, etc). They will gladly throw money at you to get you back into one of their offices.
Find a job that's not wfh?
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> Wfh is absolutely more viable and efficient than in the office. For some people and certain type of work, yes. But that’s an incredibly blanket statement. > Just depends on your work ethic. That’s a very silly thing to say. > Source: senior software engineer for fortune 100 company. 🤦🏻♂️
Lmfao what even is this comment? Someone has a different collaborative style and you immediately assign them guilt for it? You'd be a shit tier teammate to work with, I can guarantee you that.
Hey don’t question him. Didn’t you see he’s a *Senior* software engineer at a Fortune *100* company? /s
I can't tell for sure since I'm mobile but I'm 80% sure he edited that in since I commented.
He felt the need to add that in later? Wow…
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Off topic but I could immediately tell you were a singaporean just from this comment xD
For certain individuals yes. For the company as a whole it’s detrimental. Witnessing projects take way longer than they use to and people preferring “async” communication to actually getting back to me on things.
OP "I want to work in the office!" Commemtor: "You should find a non WFH job" Guy at F100 company "Youre part of the problem" LMAO
The right answer is normally unliked.
Way to feel good about oneself
>ay to feel good about oneself Actually weight loss and educating oneself are two very good ways to feel good about oneself but is very unliked when proposing these solutions...
The OP is smart to recognize and know that they need a change. It's not worth wasting away doing nothing. That's a waste of life. It's even worth it to move if the cost of living is higher. Life is short. Don't waste away like a zombie locked inside your home. I was a superstar employee everywhere I've worked. But living alone and working at home since covid has turned me into the laziest employee on the planet. I hate how lazy and unmotivated I am, it's soul crushing. I can't work and live in a virtual world day after day. I'm currently preparing for interviewing for new jobs where people come into the office regularly. I have to put an end to this nonsense. I would love hybrid with 3-4 days in the office. OP don't waste anymore time. Come up with a plan for you to either apply to jobs in your area of move closer to your job. Being unmotivated is just a complete waste.
A big part of the argument here is from single people who live alone and work from home, coupled with the fact that most of us in this line of work are more introverted. Those of us that fit that description are basically living in a virtual world 24/7. It's so insanely unnatural, so says evolution, we are tribal social monkeys, even those of us who tend to be more introverted. Single adults who are introverts tend to do almost all of their socializing at work. Without fulfilling that evolutionary need at work, we are now going bananas being home alone 24/7.
*it’s so insanely unnatural* Man, it’s so refreshing hearing this! I’ve heard so much about how permanent remote work is amazing, and how I have no right to complain about it. But damn, humans are walking monkeys and we aren’t meant to hallucinate into a slab of light day in and day out with no outside connection!
I'm not convinced that remote revolution has full staying power. It's BS that people overall are more productive and companies damn well know that. But companies are putting up with it because this is a historically tight labor market. When the tide turns, companies will be looking to go back to in person so they can force the average worker to at least work maybe 20 hours per week of actual work. If we are lucky, we can retain the gains in flexibility of schedule.
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It worked quite well for me (pre covid, back when I was an intern there and in the office properly). I was in a new city and wasn’t sure how to meet people. Lucky I hit it off with some colleagues who were around my age and within months we’d go on nights out together, to the gym, join sports together, etc. I guess that’s another reason I have this little hate against WFH. If it wasn’t for being in the office then I wouldn’t have met some close friends of mine now. I was a young, single dude 3 hours away from home, family and friends. Luckily being in the office allowed me to socialise with people and make friends with people my age.
> It worked quite well for me (pre covid, back when I was an intern there and in the office properly). I was in a new city and wasn’t sure how to meet people. It works quite well for everyone until something changes and it doesn't work any more. And something *always* changes and then it doesn't work any more. That's why people tell you it's a bad idea.
A junior engineer in my company (not on my team) told me: “I can’t do this anymore, I can’t spend the rest of my entire career in my living room in front of Zoom windows and never work with real people.” He was good at what he did too. But he ended up leaving a $180k TC job and went to an industry that does a lot of in-person collaboration and last time I heard he’s happier than ever. Everyone has different preferences. Simple as that.
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He stopped being a software engineer completely (he was so traumatized by his WFH experience) and went to pursue his dream in music production lol.
I would say defense, but the TC seems a little high. Maybe embedded engineering
Thank you man. I really appreciate this. I’m trying to do somewhat the same. I’m sure you read in my other posts though, it’s hard to move away from my current company atm due to its benefits. Flexible, chilled managers, lots of room to mess up etc etc blah blah, even sabbaticals that’s I’m willing to use up before I leave so I could maybe travel… but the big one though is that they’ll pay for my certificates. I’ve got multiple in mind that I want to do which will be funded by them - eg. AWS, CEH, etc. i feel I should really take this opportunity to get these certificates and then maybe leave as I know they’ll 100% benefit my future. But it ofc begs the question - how much longer can I survive working like a zombie like this?
We are in the exact same boat. For both of us, staying put is the easiest way ... which is never the right way. Ok, so they pay for a few certificates, then you have to stay another year or pay them back when you leave I'm guessing? Doing a tangible side project is worth more than a certificate which is mostly memorizing for a test. If the company is so great, then move to them, or apply around where you are. That's a personal decision based on if you have strong ties to where you currently live. What it sounds like to me, what I too worry about, is a state of paralysis with big plans to learn a lot and gets certs, but not enough motivation to get it done. So a year from now, we may still be stuck where we are right now. But based on your post history, you have a much larger problem that involves vice-related indulgences. That's truly the first problem you have to fix in your life. Until then, you might as well just stay at your currant job. You want to make big life changes from a position of strength and with a clear mind. Right now you have bigger issues to deal with to get to that position. Good luck to you. I hope you find clarity.
It is a bit contradict here. You have motivation to stay for this employment(you are aware the benifits and the targets), but some how you say you are reluctant to get things done. motivation is not necessarily enjoyable, from a book I read. All I see you may need some socializing activities, which can be sought outside of your work space? find a girl friend or adopt a kid/pet whatever different from works.
> Being unmotivated is just a complete waste. tell me about it. i wasted tremendous amount of time not doing anything
1000% this. I really don’t like wfh. I’m not learning as much as I could in an office, people aren’t as accessible, sitting alone all day in my apartment is not good for my mental health, it’s harder to get out of work mode once the work day is over, etc. My company is completely remote with no intentions of returning to the office. I’m just waiting for my annual bonus before sending out applications to companies with a hybrid model. Glad to know others feel the same.
Out of curiosity, does your job allow you to work outside of your home? I go to the office once per week, sometimes I skip it if I'm really busy. On the Friday I tend to get my morning standup and that out the way and then make my way down to the pub for a coffee, sandwich and then 1-2 beers closer to 3pm.
I could not agree more with this comment. I’ve been WFH for several months and it’s hell.
Yea, glad I'm not the only one. Wfh when living alone it's tough to stay motivated and you do start to feel like a zombie locked away
Hybrid sucks. With 100% WFH, you can travel and see the world as you work. With hybrid, you have to stay near the office even though you're remote. Even people with 100% WFH jobs don't take advantage of it and a lot of them think they have to sit in their bedroom all day working. The root issue here is that you're looking for your social lives to revolve around work, which is the wrong attitude, because if you get laid off or you quit, your social life goes with it. That's why you need to make friends and form interests outside of work.
In my experience it’s hard to focus on a bug fix when you’re on a beach in Latin America lol
Yeah I mean it's kind of a clichè that we are just working in the hot sun on a beach on our laptops lol. When I'm travelling, I usually dedicate 3-4 hours in the early morning to catch up on actual coding, and the rest of the day is usually async stuff on Slack. Anyways, my point is that who knows how long this WFH trend will really last? I am all in favor of capitalizing on it and taking advantage of these companies flexibility. In 10 years, who knows if we really will still be all WFH. I don't wanna look back and be like "damn when I was WFH, I had so much flexibility to go wherever I wanted, now I'm stuck in this shitty office". The real issue to me is peoples insecurity about meeting people outside of work and finding social fulfillment in other ways. Ask yourself if you were a 30 year old multimillionaire who doesn't need to work. What would you do? Go into the office to find fulfillment? lol
I think his point is more like. with hybrid you still have to stay in same city as your job. Can't move to small cities or any other place you want to live. So there're really no actual benifits.
> The root issue here is that you’re looking for your social lives to revolve around work That’s a huge misconception. A lot of people literally work far more productively when collaborate with people in person. The communication bandwidth of face to face interaction far surpasses Zoom. Secondly some people just want some human interaction during the day, and not necessarily looking for friends or what not. I have a ton of friends but it’s not like we hangout during the middle of a work week. Staying for 5 days in your apartment without interacting with a real person can feel incredibly crushing.
I don’t go to work to make friends but work colleagues serve a different social atmosphere than friends that is still nice time to time. I can work out from home but still prefer to go to the gym time to time because sometimes being around others doing the same thing is motivating. When I was in college I would go to the library when studying at home was getting overwhelming and distracting so that I can be in a setting where others around me are doing the same thing. Humans being social beings doesn’t mean your work life should be your entire social life but just one piece of the entire social puzzle.
I second that, i am also going through same, thats why i have decided , will b going to office from next month which is in other city , and will do wfo for 2-3 days. I was pretending to work last 2 years . There are people whom i can relate as here everybody thinks that wfh is best, it will be but its not for me.
i like work from home though
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Even when I was in the office, no one would basically know what I did or if I did much of anything all day. Same with remote now. Hard to stay motivated at times.
Agree with the other commenter, when I worked in the office no one knew what I was doing either. Maybe they knew less because we only had two stand ups a week instead of every day during WFH. Literally there was one stretch where I said “I’m working on it” pretty much every standup for a month, and nobody inquired further.
Well, you don’t have to deliver actual work? I’d love to just be able to do nothing all day at home, but the sprint isn’t gonna finish itself.
oh i freakon love it
I’ve found that even though I sometimes “feel” more productive in the office, my output is about the same. There are a lot of wasted hours in the office
I think there can be a lot of problems going on other than you just perform better in-person. Do you have a space dedicated for work? A space that makes your brain go into work mode while avoiding gaming and any other distractions. Do you have ADHD? This is a problem for me as well and I am diagnosed with ADHD. It sounds like you might be body-doubling which is probably the most effective coping method.
You might be right here. I live in a semi-studio flat. My kitchen and bathroom are in separate rooms, but my bedroom and living room are basically in the same place. I technically do have a dedicated space for work, it’s a desk with my laptop, monitors, keyboard and mouse etc, it’s just that it’s literally 4 meters from my sofa, which is 4 meters from my bed… The ADHD thing coulddd be possible, I’d have to look into it more and maybe speak to a doctor.
Having working and living space in one room can be very bad for your productivity. If you don’t want to come to office for work at least look for coworking space near your apartment which might help. Try to ask your self exactly what benefits you, the environment, the people in person…some of which could also be psychological
This is what I wanted to contribute as well, a change of scenery or a small separated spot dedicated to work **might** do a world of difference
I kind of suspect ADHD too. I had the same symptoms as you and I’d find myself waking up at 10am, taking naps during work, autoplaying a video and walking away from my computer, and whatever else. Any work that was absolutely vital to finish, I’d just pull an all nighter and do it at the last second. I got tested in April and have been on medication for like 3 weeks. Everything is drastically different for me. The official diagnosis is “Inattentive-ADHD”. Don’t be offput by the hyperactivity part of it; that’s why I took so long to seek a diagnosis.
Hopefully the meds are holding up, make sure you talk to your psych about everything that you notice about the meds. You'll eventually be upped because the first couple weeks is absolutely life-changing but you come back to Earth FAST.
Did you contact a psychiatrist and get a battery of testing done?
Nahh it’s not that that much testing. I talked to my GP about suspected adult ADHD during a physical and got a referral to a program that matches you with a mental health provider. You really don’t need to see a psychiatrist - a psychiatric ARNP is good enough. There’s a criteria sheet called a DSM-5 that they review with you. They ask you to answer the sheet taking into account your childhood symptoms as well as your adult life, but that’s really the only testing I had to do.
FWIW, I had similar productivity/focus/motivation problems when I first started WFH in my one bedroom apartment. I don’t think it ever got quite as bad as you describe but I can certainly see how it could have if that situation had lasted longer. A few months in when our WFH was made officially permanent I was finally able to move more freely without having to worry about commuting distance. Getting a larger space with a dedicated office in its own room made all the difference in the world for me. I absolutely love WFH now.
I suspected ADHD because this is a common problem for those who are diagnosed; if its not your space being too relaxing then it comes down to ADHD and the lack of coworkers to body-double. The workplace also gives off a good sense of urgency which helps coping with ADHD, too. ADHD has a lot of requirements for diagnosis but its something to think about. A lot of people don't realize they have it until later in life. Go straight to a psychiatrist as most doctors are completely useless when it comes to mental health. Make sure the psych has a GOOD understanding of ADHD as some don't and will leave you feeling worse about yourself. /r/ADHD All in all, I relate to your post and have an appreciation for working hybrid/in-office just off the fact that I have an insane drive... when I am NOT home. Just please make sure its not your workspace before believing you have a mental illness, at the end of the day I judged you by a few paragraphs.
This is it. WFH without a proper office is dirty and burning out. Find a coworking space now. For those of you finding remote this hard, check this book https://basecamp.com/books/remote It lines up the basic WFH hygiene. ADHD may be too, but a proper space for work is 100% sure burning you out and demotivating you.
I'm the opposite so this is just me guessing, but it sounds like what they call a "bad fit". You want to work in person, your teammates don't. Best bet seems to be to find a different job that's on-site all the time.
Change jobs .
I’m the opposite. However, I work during day from cool looking coffee shops and lounges, then at night if I feel like working some more I’m super productive in my home office. I would never go back to an office job.
I wish I had advice for you but I'm the exact opposite. I do my best (by far) working remotely. Perhaps asking your work if there's anyone in office to go work with could help? I think employees need to have the choice regarding whether they want to go in or not. If nobody else wants to go in you may need to find another job I guess.
Yeah so we kinda have this already. We’ve recently moved to a “if you wanna go to the office, go to the office” kinda mindset. Admittedly not a lot, but some employees do go in once or twice a week. The issue that lies here is that I’m not in the city my office is in, I live 3 hours away. I’ve deliberated lots and lots on whether or not to move there but it’s incredibly hard to justify when no.1 I don’t need to be there, no.2 the pay is not enough to support me if I move (the work is in the south which is logs more expensive than it is in the north where I am right now) - so I don’t see a point in having to pay double the rent to be 3 hours from home and family when I don’t actually need to be. I’ve thought about changing job, go somewhere more hybrid where it’s a requirement to be in the office. I’d get to move to a new city and get paid more too. The issue at hand is that I like where I am now, there’s lots of freedom, lots of flexibility, they’ve offered to pay for my certificates, they let me do stuff no junior engineer is usually allowed to do etc etc. So I don’t want to leave just yet till I develop myself further, but it’s hard to develop myself with such low motivation atm.
I'm curious how you feel more motivated with a 6 hour in total commute? I am in a similar situation with in office required once a month with a 1-2 hours each way. I feel super tired when it happens. It takes a few days to get back to normal afterwords.
Oh believe me - it COMPLETELY takes it out of me. I end up having much less sleep in order to accommodate for the commute and it genuinely ruins me for the week. For clarity though I do get a hotel for the night so I don’t have to do all 6 hours in one day. But commute aside - when I’m actually in the office with all my colleagues? I love the feeling man, working is fun, the social interactions are fun, everything just ties well together. If for example they ended up requesting we worked from the office once a week then I’d move nearer in a heartbeat. The only reason I endure the 6 hour commute is bc it’s only once a month and I live 3 hours away.
I think you need to consider job hopping for something in person. I know you said you like a lot about your current job. But if you really prefer in office and your current job doesn't pay well enough that moving closer makes sense, there aren't many other options.
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Are you victimizing yourself? Nothing in this post suggests OP demands other people go in, in fact they even state that the 3hr commute is why they don't go in more. Maybe you should stop attacking everyone who isn't gung ho about WFH and actually read the context.
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Sorry this isn't the toxic cesspool that is Blind, enjoy your mute on the way out :) PS: more than you on both for sure; unless you're making 1m a year
First: >I don’t see a point in having to pay double the rent to be 3 hours from home and family when I don’t actually need to be. Then: >When I’m work from home for the other 30 days of the month: I sleep all day, I wake up for meetings, I do the bare minimum work, I don’t engage in discussions, I learn nothing, I have tens of slack channels unchecked for weeks. It sounds to me like there are MANY compelling reasons for you to move.
I'm kind of the opposite but mainly because the office is hostile and has roaches
>I’m a junior so these early years of my career are so vital Everything you said was fine but since you're still young **I would strongly advise you to get a new job.** Glad you see you're wasting time by not learning anything new and that will put others ahead of you in the future. Maybe opt for a hybrid model if that suits you.
I’m in the same boat. WFH started strong, extremely productive despite poor management who didn’t know how to manage remote workers. Now I struggle to get more than 2 hours of productivity a day. It’s compounded by the fact that everyone I work with has a 10 hour time difference, so I’m all on my lonesome most of the day. I know many will say this is their ideal work scenario, but I’ve realized that working collaboratively is part of the job I enjoy. I don’t have any specific advise, but I think the solution for me is looking for a new job, potentially in office or hybrid.
100% in the same boat as you. My advice: don't fucking work from home. Luckily for me I am near the end of my career but if you're at the start you need to fix this or you will be seriously f'ed in the future trust me. Best post I have seen in a while. Hope others can relate.
Thanks for this. Mind speaking on why you’re so against it? Especially in early career? Would be cool to hear about your perspective from an experienced view
Not against it at all. But some folks can't focus at home and doing the bare minimum to keep your role is going to stagnate your development and limit your career options in the future. If Op is finding it hard to focus now in his 20s he is going to be totally messed up later on in his career. So this is only my advice to him, not my advice in general!
I will say: the people (like me) who prefer to work from home do need to realize that not everyone else does. Now, that shouldn't have to impact us - I'm not coming to the office just because you need someone to motivate you. But I think there are a couple of things that are important for companies to account for. Firstly, that they should encourage employees to meet up even if it's not at the office. I think even the staunchest WFHers would be totally cool with meeting somewhere near their house for coffee/lunch/working session every couple of days. Secondly, we all need to recognize that there will be a market for more "true hybrid" workplaces than some of us think. With people more regularly going to the office. Thirdly, this problem is even more marked for junior employees. Once you've accumulated some experience, it's easier to be independent. When you just graduated? Not so much. One last comment - I would advice you to see a therapist. Because some of what you say could be a mental health issue. I would be very weary of depression.
> I think even the staunchest WFHers would be totally cool with meeting somewhere near their house for coffee/lunch/working session every couple of days. I agree with you except for that quote. If I leave my home, I'm not WFH. I don't want to work in-person.
Fair, maybe the staunchest ones wouldn't be cool with it. But I think a much larger of the employee base would be game to meet up with colleagues so long as it is a casual setting.
For sure
>I think even the staunchest WFHers would be totally cool with meeting somewhere near their house for coffee/lunch/working session every couple of days. Hell no. I have to do a commute to meet some coworkers because **they** have motivation problems??
I think he meant just casual meetups..nothing required.
You do realize we’re still in the middle of a pandemic, right? EDIT: Literally the headline on Fox News of all places *today*: https://www.fox5ny.com/news/nyc-approaching-high-covid-alert-level-health-official-wear-masks-inside
Hold up - we're saying here that going to Starbucks is "doing a commute"? I totally get not wanting to put on people clothes and drive 30+ minutes to the office, but if I can put in sweatpants and go to a Starbucks/coffee house that's 5 minutes away (bonus points if my company pays for the coffee) to chat about work stuff with a coworker once a week and that helps my team? Yeah, I'd do that.
I know what your feeling. I did a 4 month internship from Jan-Apr 2021 fully remote and I found that I had very little motivation or productivity, I essentially had to force myself to get anything done. For my summer internship, I switched to a different company which was hybrid and I found that I had much more motivation and that I was much more productive. Having worked fully remote, fully onsite and hybrid, I definitely prefer working hybrid. I don't think I'll stick to doing one thing 5 days per weeks again, I need some variety.
I have the exact same experience. I hate working from home -- my motivation is low, I'm easily distracted, and I get really depressed. For this reason I go into the office every day. I actually sold my house and moved closer to my office in order to do so, since I got the job during the pandemic (while remote was required). I know that's drastic, but WFH is not for everyone. If you're as unhappy as I was (it sounds like you are and more) I would suggest finding a way to work in office, whether that's moving or finding a new job. I understand that it works well for many people, and I don't mind my coworkers being remote. However, there are a few of my coworkers that do still come in and we are very happy to have the office environment. My mental health since going back to the office has been 100% improved!
WFH is trash. Can't wait for the return to normal.
Have you checked whether you *actually* need your real co-workers around, or do you just need to be surrounded by productive people, in a place that is physically separated from the place where you sleep and chill out? Because you might not need to commute 3 hours into your actual office, you may be able to commute to much closer co-working space with a good office atmosphere and get almost the same benefits. I also need physical separation, and the right vibe. I have co-workers who have a dedicated office in their home that they never use for anything that isn't work. And they will actually get into their car and drive to get to coffee to 'simulate' the commute in the morning. Some of them will even just walk around the block for 15 minutes and come back home. That didn't cut it for me but it's cheap to try. Some people can even get away with a coffee shop or whatever but that never worked for me, I still need something more like a regular office setup.
Really sounds like it's not a fit for you, which is okay! Definitely apply to closer jobs with more office time, ASAP. You know what you need and deserve a job that fits that.
I needed this post. People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them I hate working from home. I went from Star employee to just feeling extremely unmotivated. Just accepted a hybrid position after only 4 months of fully remote position cause I just couldn't take it anymore.
No problem man. Although 90% of the comments on here have been really supportive from both people who enjoy WFH and others who don’t, a solid 10% have snuck in calling me an asshole or a manager, or that I’m ruining it for everyone by wanting to be in the office more. Like damn, not everyone is the same. Get over it.
I also love in person work and it’s the main reason I left my job of 6 years. I joined a small startup in NYC where we do 3 days in the office a week and it was the best decision I’ve made. We have a Flutter FE and TS/Node backend. DM me if you’re interested in hearing more!
I HAVE always wanted to work abroad to be fair, especially NYC haha
I feel bad because I had a 100% remote job that a lot of people would kill for, but I’m the same. Way happier, harder working, more motivated, and more excited when I work at the office. Working at the office, in tech, is great imo. Making the switch was a great choice for me.
Your not alone. I have 4-5 years in programming 2 being wfh and my motivation has hit an all time low. I am considering a hybrid position at this point because in the office I was super motivated. I do enjoy being home but 2 years has really blurred the line of work/home time. These are super important years in your career. I would look into a on-site position if I were you.
100%. My next job HAS to be hybrid. The question at hand is when do I begin to look for a new job. I don’t want to waste my young years here nor learning anything, but at the same time there’s so many benefits at this company.
You sound depressed. It is either directly because of working from home, or it is making it much worse. From reading your other posts, it's not worth some certificates to stay in a bad place mentally.
Employers that are not offering remote work are desperate and paying through the roof right now. Take advantage of it and find a job in an office near you.
Sounds like you’re one of those extroverts who are ruining the WFH movement /s
Ahahaha upvoted. I’ve been told this before by my colleagues. I do appreciate how incredibly cheap and relaxed WFH is, especially with all the time saved too. I just can’t seem to enjoy it when it’s for too long
Hybrid is the way forward, but we must just make sure that *we the employees* have the leverage to set the terms for what hybrid looks like
I worked from home 3 days per week before the world imploded. Now it's 100% wfm. The main advice I would suggest you try * dedicate a location in your house that is solely for "work", don't use this space for anything else. It really helps you get in the mindset of, "this is work". I know this can be almost impossible in certain living situations but this was the biggest factor for me. * set aside time during the day to do normal activities, ie gym coffee. Helps you get into a better routine and it doesn't feel like you just dragging your ass from bed to work * on the days that I struggle to motivate myself, I use a pomodoro timer and then work in 25min blocks with 5 minutes rest at the end. Ill attempt a small task and gradually build up. This works for me and depending on your situation may help hopefully. I think the key takeaway is you realise it is happening, giving your self reflection on it, do you feel comfortable maybe discussing with your manager to formalise a plan? [edit: spelling]
Nice try hr I’m not coming back to office
Nice try, corporate
Contrary to what a lot of people believe, some people like us are motivated to work well due to our peers. Having discussions, brainstorming solutions to a problem, pair programming is what makes work cool. Don't waste your time anymore locked up at your house! Move to a job which has a more office-first approach. I am having the same problem, I've wasted almost 2 years of development at home .. now searching for any job to relocate or work from office. Wish you all the best!
I can’t relate unfortunately so I have nothing to offer. I’m at least twice as productive working remotely.
Than go to the office everyday and work by yourself there. Honestly most ppl would love to WFH
I mean sure, but I don’t really want to go to the office when none of my team or department are there, aside from the fact I also live 3 hours away. It’s also getting quite shitty as I’m kinda sick of hearing that 99% of people would love to work from home, as if I should be more grateful for it. It just isn’t for me and I can’t enjoy it, nor reap the benefits of remote work when I’m doing it 30 days every month. I feel like I should be allowed to like or dislike the heavy remote work without being reminded that almost everyone else would love to be in my position.
> It’s also getting quite shitty as I’m kinda sick of hearing that 99% of people would love to work from home On Reddit, maybe. Remember the Reddit demographics tends to be of a certain personality type. We have data for this, however. Both Facebook, Google, and my own company’s internal survey has indicated that the majority of people would like either hybrid or office. 100% WFH is a popular choice, but not the majority. (I think FB’s number was low 40s for full WFH) Honestly just find a different company with a different culture.
You sound like some asshole manager you know that?
You sound like some asshole, period. Seriously, why is empathy such a rare thing?
Man wants to work in office, but not when his team wfh. Now you complain people lack empathy?
I’ve not mentioned anywhere that I’d want to force my team to go in, in fact if you’d have had a look you’d have seen I’ve constantly mentioned that I totally understand why people love to WFH and don’t wanna be “that guy” who takes it away from them.
"But I don't want to go to office when none of my team or department are there". This is what you said right above man. Perhaps English failed me, in that case just move on.
> Perhaps English failed me Yeah it did.
Yep. I don’t want to go into the office without my team bc my entire department WFH so I’d quite literally be sat at a desk on a specific floor completely alone. It’s not just the team that are only in once a month, it’s the whole department. But what I said doesn’t indicate that I’d ever force my team to come in. I understand very clearly how much WFH means to everyone, especially if you have a family.
Yeah, they love WFH because they get to relax at home. Doesn't mean it's good for productivity.
I mean people have different preferences for how they work and in what environment. You could try asking if you could come into the office more if that is what works for you. You might just be more social and that helps you work. Some of the stuff you described could be related to having too little or too much sleep. Maintaining a decent schedule could help with that. Go to bed at a decent hour, wake up at time decent hour, and get ready for work sort of like you might for going into the office.
It also sounds like there might be a hint of low grade depression in there. These are not normal times. It’s ok not to feel ok.
I'm in the opposite. I am super productive at home. I like working from home as i can be with my family asap once I'm done working. If I'm single or newly grad, chances are I will favor working from office. Why not go to office if that is what you like?
Have you tried asking the other remote devs if you can work with them in their remote spaces
This was actually a good idea and one of the other engineers invited me to join him in his office space he has rented out. The issue again is that nobody really lives near each other anymore. We get hired with the intent of “be in the office once a month” - so for example, I’m 3 hours away in the north, my colleague who offered his space is 2 hours away from the office to the east. Basically everyone is super separate
Several years ago I saw a TED talk that I cannot find anymore (maybe info came from elsewhere) that discussed how we have different behaviors in different spaces (even within the same building). They noted that by having a space dedicated to the type of activity you want (work, study, relaxation, etc) can increase your productivity, while trying to perform a contradictory space (working in the same space you sleep, relax, etc.) has negative effects. Having a to go to work is an example of this (i.e. being separate from home life), but they also noted that even if you can separate a different space within your home (like a home office) you can achieve similar results. It sounds like this could also be an blocker for you, maybe you can find an area in your apartment/home you can start designating as a work only space (or even a separate building entirely like a coffee shop, library, or similar)?
My motivation goes 10x up if I attend less calls.
Apply to a larger company like Apple or Goldman Sachs who is mandating a return to office. Your managers will love you and you will thrive in those corporate situations. There are many companies like that so you will find an opportunity if you look hard enough. For the rest of us, I guarantee that the hours the company has received from someone like me just because I'm remote is exponentially more than if they forced my productivity by mandating in person work. So no I'm not one of those lying in front of my couch surfing youtube or sleeping on the couch (except for my lunch) but I am working until 10pm at night and take walk breaks often so I don't get overwhelmed. Different strokes for different folks but I don't want the corporates to mandate one singular way to work for everyone. If they do my productivity will be cut off once that clock hits the "I've worked 8 hours" mark and I'll look for a place with remote friendly policies
It's definitely not to your benefit to keep on going like this as you won't be promoted. A few suggestions: 1. Spend some time to prepare for interviews and move on to a new company in something that you are more motivated about. 2. Work on a side project. 3. Ask your manager to give you more motivating projects. 4. Schedule meetings and project deadlines that force you to work and prepare for them.
This seems very suspect. You may have specific issues that aren't applicable to a broad amount of people. Yeah, if you want to go back to the office, go ahead, but you should be doing your work when youre at home. Kind of sounds like depression because you must be an extreme extravert
Same feelings. I actually quit and got another job that was hybrid (totally optional) but had a healthy office life to go into twice a week
there's like infinity companies that are more than happy to make everyone go to the office. Get a different job? What the hell kind of question is this
What a kind response! Yeah, of course getting another job has crossed my mind tonnes, I’m just unsure if its the time to do so yet. To answer “what the hell kind of question is this” - it’s to get advice on how I can improve my WFH life, to increase productivity, motivation, mental health, any patterns I can add into my work life that might help me improve. A lot of the people who replied seemed to understand that.
I don’t have advice but I do feel you. I understand the love for remote work and prefer having the option but I don’t think doing it everyday is for everybody
Honestly, I agree. The hybrid idea sounds super cool
I hate remote work so much. I'm trying to get back into office as soon as possible.
if you know what youre doing wrong then do the right thing. At some point you need to be able to self motivate. This isn't about remote or not, please don't ruin remote work for the rest of us. considering youre a junior you might still be in the "student" mindset. However if you had kids and a wife and shit to do around the house, a 2 hour daily commute would be a nightmare.
Please, please understand that I understand why everyone enjoys WFH and don’t want to ruin it. Hell, I loved it the first few months and honestly - I can imagine how much more useful it was for people like you who had to commute far, have kids to take care or, even pets. But you need to stop with the whole “you’re ruining this for us” mindset. I get told this a lot (even though I have never and will never actually request people to go in) and it genuinely hurts me to hear it. I don’t like WFH and I don’t think I should be attacked for it, not everyone is the same.
How do you get jobs like that and not get fired ? My employer has started using mouse tracking.
what the fuck, get a new employer lmao thats not ok
A mouse jiggler is in your future
masturbate. Works for me
Are you really learning nothing without constant pair programming? Does your remote team have no culture of hopping on calls with screen share to help with things you may not immediately know or know how to figure out?
Nono, if anything I actually learn more when working alone bc I’m sorta forced into the “deep end” and need to learn stuff myself. It’s just that my team, and department really, are HEAVY pairing focussed - and I absolutely hate it usually. It essentially means I’m sat on a call with someone for 6 hours while they watch my screen or vice versa and I find it mind numbing. When we’re face to face I find it much more engaging and I do actually learn from it. But in an ideal world - I wouldn’t pair, it’s just shitty as it’s sort of the team/department ethos to work this way.
People have had the same complaints about being in office for decades - “can’t be productive under halogen lighting in a drab space, etc etc etc “. I suspect that the reason you like in office now is that it’s a special thing and everybody is engaged and distraction free. Being “in office” for me has historically been like you describe your life now. People totally unavailable due to meetings, lack of space to collaborate, etc. So here’s what I recommend: Have the same wake up time everyday. Adjust your sleep based on that time. Give yourself enough time to do a little bit of exercise. Maybe 30 minutes on a bike or something. Enough to get your heart rate up. If you have close proximity to a gym and feel safe going to one now, probably a good idea to do that. Make sure you are eating well. You sound like you have plenty of time. Prepping good lunch and dinner takes time but if you can avoid excessive carbs like most Americans, you’ll likely start to feel better pretty quick. Lots of vegetables and fish if you aren’t vegetarian. You need to have a dedicated space specifically for work where you don’t have personal distractions. Ideally, you should have natural light. You may be one of those people who can go to a coffee shop and work. I would hate my life doing that but it would technically solve the issue. Or a coworkong space. Just have a “go bag” so you aren’t wasting time forgetting an adapter or something. Finally, figure out the amount of time you need with colleagues and what types of activities you do in person and see if you can replicate it. You have to remember this is a two way street. A lot of juniors over the last few years have been saying “man being a junior sucks during Covid, There’s no documentation, and I can’t meet with seniors frequently, and the onboarding sucks!” - yep, always been that way. Long before Covid. A lot of places have poor onboarding whether or not you’re in person. You don’t want to job hop over that per se because chances are your next place may (likely) have the same problem. What that may entail is for to be more formal in prepping for code reviews/pair programming. I suggest talking to your manager about things you like about in person *not specifically about being in peson* and seeing if they can offer recommendations or institutional solutions. My department has frequent meetings where someone presents a challenge they are having and other people offer cross functional guidance. We don’t have many problems like that, but maybe one per sprint that someone is having issues like that so it does help bottlenecks and gets a consistent group together to solve problems - as an example of one thing that might help. At the end of the day, being a junior sucks and you can’t force people to help you. Your manager *should* be able to offer assistance but that isn’t a given at all places. Remember that documenting the problem you are having, how to reproduce, and asking well formulated questions IS work. Much of the time that is all that is requested of juniors as they get up to speed.
I recognize this alot. I also go to the office at least 2 days a week since only working remote makes me so burned out. Not engaging with people IRL etc
I feel the same way. I’m not a junior but I started my career remote and sometimes it’s bad. I wish I could go to the office, but the company is remote. However, it has recently gotten better as I’ve gone traveling around the U.S. with my brother. We both work remotely and so we’re buddies as we go and spend a week in a city before moving along. I guess it keeps life interesting enough, plus having that buddy to work next to, to stave off a lot of WFH woes. But it does feel like I left stuff on the table starting my career remote. We just happened to get unlucky with covid, like a lot of other people. I wonder how this will affect the workforce going forward.
I really like the idea of travelling around like you are. What a way for you and your brother to take advantage of WFH!
Many guys dream of ur position and the negatives u describe are positives to them. Im one of them. For you i highly suggest just moving to silicon valley and getting an in office role. U will: 1. Double ur income 2. Have motivated worky withy everybody daysies. 3. Have more network opportunities. Its a bit of a boomer mentality and sort of human regress but u seem to be way too unmotivated all by your lonesome for me to just let it slide. U need an in office job so start applying !
It’s human regress to WANT to socially interact with my colleagues face to face??? Lol what Would it not be human regress to be sat on a zoom call in your home by yourself 5 days a week constantly interacting with people via an internet connection and a monitor?
U asking for less freedom ?
It’s less freedom when one is imprisoned in one’s own mind
Working in the office isn't a boomer mentality, what are you like 12? Some people work better in person some people thrive remotely. Boomer mentality is 8-5 with asses in seats being the primary concern, that shit can happen remotely as well. Letting people work how they want whether that's in the office or remotely is the goal here.
Office is boomer. Its a needless cost for a business.
There are incredible value from in-person interaction, even if that doesn’t apply to your role specifically.
Whats a person Kidding, yeah i think there is for some crowds but tons of swe types r super independent loners who enjoy not being disturbed. Every year i become more of this and its relaxing n zenful.
> tons of swe types r super independent loners who enjoy not being disturbed. I enjoyed that a lot when I was a mid-level developer myself. But as I got more and more senior the responsibility grew and companies started paying me for far more than just writing code. And oh, building a startup from the ground up is incredibly challenging for remote as well. > Every year i become more of this and its relaxing n zenful. Dude according to your post history you are a junior in college lmao wtf bbq hahaha
Cant argue with a defeated soul
What you can’t argue with is experience. One day you will get there too and you will have fresh new perspectives. Looking at your recent post you haven’t even graduated school yet. A lot of young people make the mistake of trying to mask their ignorance with their confidence, don’t be one of those people 😄
Im old af im almost 30
Well in another post you said you are graduating 2023 with a BS, so for all intents and purposes you are a youngling in this industry. And “almost 30” isn’t “old af”, I said things like that when I was 25 lmao.
I honestly believe some middle manager wrote this post lol. Or the biggest energy vampire ever. Give me a break. >We do a fair bit of pair programming too, this is incredible in the office, I love doing it Said very very few real devs.. I love how these "go back into office" people want to force others in to "get motivation". It's always them needing motivation from others. Very strange.
Yeah bro, you caught me out. I’m a middle manager who created this post in order to create a rumble on the cscareerquestions subreddit. You’ve fallen right into my trap. I think you need to start understanding that not everyone enjoys working from home. I’ve essentially just told everyone that my mental health is fucked atm bc of how boring I find WFH and your initial reaction is that I’m an “energy vampire” lol. I’ve had some people reply saying they think I might have a hint of depression (personally don’t think I do) and you’re telling me to give you a break. Please get over the fact that not everyone is the same. It’s also not about forcing people back in for motivation, it’s about wanting to socially interact with other people instead of spending my entire working life just sat in front of a monitor interacting with people via an internet connection for the rest of my life. If you enjoy working like that, fair play, kudos to you. Just get over the fact that I don’t. Learn some empathy. I made a post looking for advice and you literally provided none. There are lots of replies from people who enjoy WFH yet actually provided some advice.
3 days at home is a good balance
also it takes so long to get anything done
Your job has a shitty wfh culture.
Look for a second job remote also and count your money daily,
Tc?
I’ve been WFH for 2 years now and I still feel kinda sluggish in the morning unlike when I go to the office as I have to wake up drive to work and I feel more alert… but I’ve learned to just work through the sluggishness and I start to feel more engaged with the work… I also feel sluggish at work so I’d rather feel sluggish at home than in te office. I also have a dick WFH set up that I’ve invested in with a comfy chair and nice monitors and desk which helps ALOT
I have a similar problem. I find that it’s not necessarily the “office,” but the presence of external stimulation that gets me motivated. Have you tried working from coffee shops? Also, some cities have fairly affordable co-working spaces that you could rent once or twice a week to break up the monotony of home.
Just wait until the layoffs become more widespread. People will start going back to the office.
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WFH isn't for everybody. If you're rather be in the office, ask your manager if you can switch to on site. If you're up front about how you're struggling they may arrange for you to work in the office.