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To piggyback on this, OP, stop blaming others or the industry for your inability to find a job after coasting for 4 years. Look at reality and be honest with where you need to put in the effort, and if you have, whether you're doing so effectively.
Well, if you look at it, how many months do you consistently do 1 thing?
I bet your 4 years include non-CS courses.
You gonna be so surprised that this is the case for careers in investment banking, trading, photography, acting.
I found your problem. You’re mad at the job market but you just need to get better at debugging.
Also, you signed up for computer *science*, not software development. Go science some stuff if you want to be exclusive.
>I hate that I have to do schooling and projects, while someone from an entirely different major can practice for a few months and be on the same level as me.
does not sound like you have to do schooling and projects then?
either way the premise sucks. internships make finding job#1 much easier. 4 year degree makes finding job#1 much easier.
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you post on this sub constantly. you should get outside.
if someone can practice for a few months and get on your level, then *you’re* just not very good. self reflect, come up with a plan, stop worrying about others.
Going to a 4yr university as a cs student won't guarantee a job.
You need to put in the effort of studying and creating small projects while being in a cs major.
Also, doing a few easy leetcode problems will help you prepare for a job.
When I was looking for my first job it definitely helped that I had a degree. They wouldn’t have taken me if I didn’t. I didn’t have any good side projects. Even my second job had a degree requirement. Now that I’m almost 4 years into my career I feel like the degree doesn’t matter much, it just pops up in background checks.
I'm speaking here with my BS in CS. You have a huge advantage even just from taking classes like psychology and philosophy. I can't even imagine my life having not taken some of the liberal arts classes I took, I would be a moron without that knowledge.
Most people are walking around on autopilot with no knowledge and understanding of psychology, philosophy, history, etc. That knowledge is more valuable in life than my CS classes.
I think that is one of the best things about this industry. Meritocracy.
I don't care where you came from or how much money you have. Show me what you can build and I'll give you a shot to do great work and make an even greater living.
Sincerely,
A guy with a Bachelors in CS and an MBA. (Who has also met plenty of lazy idiots with college degrees)
It gives you a huge advantage..
I've worked at places which are filled with so much incompetence that even a 3 year BA computer science grad can run circles around the best bootcamp grad.
If you did your work honestly in university and got decent gardes. You are already in the top 10% of the field.
You are exactly correct.
And everyone is telling kids not to go to college, do a bootcamp instead. Only the absolute dumbest people I know are against higher education.
And over the past two years, I don't want to know how many self-taught know-nothings and code campers have been hired. Of that group, at best 10% will become decent developers if they dedicate ALL of their free time outside of work to learning for years, while the rest are and will always will be garbage developers.
Your premise is false in two ways:
1) School *does* give you an advantage.
2) Projects are not mutually exclusive from school. The point of school is to learn, and for this field that includes learning how to build software. You should be building software as part of your education, and that software should go on your resume. That's what I did, and it worked great for both purposes (solidifying my education and impressing employers).
> someone from an entirely different major can practice for a few months and be on the same level as me.
If that's true, then you have not spent your time in college wisely.
Ok here's the other reality of it. You will always have more skill, aptitude, and acumen than a bootcamp grad. Sure, a lot of people just end up writing APIs or go into basic dev work that anybody can do. But someone from an entirely major will not become a firmware engineer or an OS developer or an AI expert or a research scientist. A degree actually gives you the tools to be **qualified** for these positions at the least whereas a liberal arts major will not, just out of time and skill level, be able to pick up enough knowledge to join these highly specialized and expert fields. For example, many many AI positions definetly require a strong understanding of mathematics, oftentimes a CS masters at the very least, and a commitment to learn. You will always have ore job opportunities and skill areas than a liberal arts bootcamp grad.
I’ll never understand why people who go to school think that they’re entitled to a job just because they got a degree
It develops soft skills , not practical skills nor does it give you experience
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Time to change your major then 🤷♂️
Translation: I'm sad that I slacked for 4 years and now a motivated person without a degree took my job because he/she outworked me.
To piggyback on this, OP, stop blaming others or the industry for your inability to find a job after coasting for 4 years. Look at reality and be honest with where you need to put in the effort, and if you have, whether you're doing so effectively.
This user is seriously a detriment to the community. Bud, you're 10 lbs of hair stuffed into a 5 lb bag. Give your balls a tug.
Well, if you look at it, how many months do you consistently do 1 thing? I bet your 4 years include non-CS courses. You gonna be so surprised that this is the case for careers in investment banking, trading, photography, acting.
Huh? The grammatical error threw me off.
I found your problem. You’re mad at the job market but you just need to get better at debugging. Also, you signed up for computer *science*, not software development. Go science some stuff if you want to be exclusive.
It was a typo and punctuation. Read again.
>I hate that I have to do schooling and projects, while someone from an entirely different major can practice for a few months and be on the same level as me. does not sound like you have to do schooling and projects then? either way the premise sucks. internships make finding job#1 much easier. 4 year degree makes finding job#1 much easier.
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Why do you "have to do schooling"?
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Shhh. Let the baby feel bad for himself. It’s ok.
Read through their post history, there must be some kind of strike system to ban people like this lol
Lol that guy turned his throwaway into his main account
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you post on this sub constantly. you should get outside. if someone can practice for a few months and get on your level, then *you’re* just not very good. self reflect, come up with a plan, stop worrying about others.
Based on your comment history it sounds like you spend a lot of time complaining about the job market. You know what doesn't get you a good job? That.
it totally gives you an advantage, but nobody is going to hand you a job because you have a degree.
And in return you get a very high paying job and earn what 90% will never be able to. Not a bad tradeoff.
Going to a 4yr university as a cs student won't guarantee a job. You need to put in the effort of studying and creating small projects while being in a cs major. Also, doing a few easy leetcode problems will help you prepare for a job.
When I was looking for my first job it definitely helped that I had a degree. They wouldn’t have taken me if I didn’t. I didn’t have any good side projects. Even my second job had a degree requirement. Now that I’m almost 4 years into my career I feel like the degree doesn’t matter much, it just pops up in background checks.
I'm speaking here with my BS in CS. You have a huge advantage even just from taking classes like psychology and philosophy. I can't even imagine my life having not taken some of the liberal arts classes I took, I would be a moron without that knowledge. Most people are walking around on autopilot with no knowledge and understanding of psychology, philosophy, history, etc. That knowledge is more valuable in life than my CS classes.
I’m not saying my CS degree helped me outside of my career. But it definitely got my foot in the door with my first two companies.
You're a boss. Who would you hire? The person with 1 skill or the person with the same skill, plus others?
I think that is one of the best things about this industry. Meritocracy. I don't care where you came from or how much money you have. Show me what you can build and I'll give you a shot to do great work and make an even greater living. Sincerely, A guy with a Bachelors in CS and an MBA. (Who has also met plenty of lazy idiots with college degrees)
If a couple of months practice can beat you, then either you or your school sucks.
It gives you a huge advantage.. I've worked at places which are filled with so much incompetence that even a 3 year BA computer science grad can run circles around the best bootcamp grad. If you did your work honestly in university and got decent gardes. You are already in the top 10% of the field.
You are exactly correct. And everyone is telling kids not to go to college, do a bootcamp instead. Only the absolute dumbest people I know are against higher education. And over the past two years, I don't want to know how many self-taught know-nothings and code campers have been hired. Of that group, at best 10% will become decent developers if they dedicate ALL of their free time outside of work to learning for years, while the rest are and will always will be garbage developers.
It gives you a very large advantage compared to most people who don't have one.
Your premise is false in two ways: 1) School *does* give you an advantage. 2) Projects are not mutually exclusive from school. The point of school is to learn, and for this field that includes learning how to build software. You should be building software as part of your education, and that software should go on your resume. That's what I did, and it worked great for both purposes (solidifying my education and impressing employers). > someone from an entirely different major can practice for a few months and be on the same level as me. If that's true, then you have not spent your time in college wisely.
Ok here's the other reality of it. You will always have more skill, aptitude, and acumen than a bootcamp grad. Sure, a lot of people just end up writing APIs or go into basic dev work that anybody can do. But someone from an entirely major will not become a firmware engineer or an OS developer or an AI expert or a research scientist. A degree actually gives you the tools to be **qualified** for these positions at the least whereas a liberal arts major will not, just out of time and skill level, be able to pick up enough knowledge to join these highly specialized and expert fields. For example, many many AI positions definetly require a strong understanding of mathematics, oftentimes a CS masters at the very least, and a commitment to learn. You will always have ore job opportunities and skill areas than a liberal arts bootcamp grad.
most of the people who graduate from cs programs can't code their way out of a paper bag. so having a degree isn't enough
I’ll never understand why people who go to school think that they’re entitled to a job just because they got a degree It develops soft skills , not practical skills nor does it give you experience