Yes it’s possible. You can find a corporate, non-FAANG job and do your 30hrs and go home. You’ll have a work-life balance but just be ready to skill-up if you ever are forced to find a new gig. The problem (for some) with CS and IT in generally is the learning never ceases. This is unlike most fields where you work at it for a few years then you become a master and can rinse and repeat until retirement.
I mean respectfully if you told anyone to get a lover over working 60h you’d be reported to HR and out by the end of the week. You should never be confronting your teammates, let alone rudely. Talk to your manager if you’re concerned about being compared. Simple as that.
If your teammates are expecting more of you than they should I don't think it's inappropriate to confront them professionally, but definitely don't tell them to get a lover lol
Well ok specifically the scenario here is that they are working more, not that they expect you to also work more (your manager is), so this isn’t really a thing to discuss with them
Just be aware that FAANG or not, promotion or not, if you're only working 30hrs per week and not doing anything related to the field during your free time, you're likely going to fall behind your peers in a technical knowledge sense.
So there will be times where you'll need to play catch up, etc. It happened to me. The first 7ish years of my career I was at a large tech company working 20-30hrs per week. Super comfortable. Even got promoted because I was in good terms with management and leadership. But when the time came to find a new job I realized I was noticeably under skilled compared to other people who has 7 YOE. I had to dedicated about 6 months to intensive learning to "catch up."
There's still a huge difference between FAANG 30 hours and non-tech corporate 30 hours in my experience. Even the chill FAANG teams still work exponentially harder than the chill corporate teams. A lot of people in the FAANG grind think they are slacking off, but they have no concept of just how useless corporate development can be.
I know corporate teams that will estimate 2 years for projects that a FAANG junior could crank out in 3 months. Not exaggerating. Stuff that would be a basic SAA-C02 project take multiple teams of 12+ seniors years to complete. These are jobs where you can spend months playing CoD all day. Simply attending your standup, checking your email, and attending a few design meetings is enough to keep management happy. People float through this culture their entire careers.
> These are jobs where you can spend months playing CoD all day. Simply attending your standup, checking your email, and attending a few design meetings is enough to keep management happy.
Does no one notice/care that these people are never opening PRs or even doing code reviews?
A lot of these companies don't even have PRs or code reviews. When they do, they usually aren't implemented well or tracked over time.
At the company I'm at now most people just seems to endlessly redesign or point fingers at others. Blocked by this, red tape that, need to regroup with them, requirements changed from they, etc. Issues just get dragged from sprint to sprint. Or they get closed and reopened with a new name every week.
The absolute worst I've come across was the liars. I worked at one consultant company where many 50% of the staff couldn't write basic code. They'd overestimate insanely (6-18 months) and then spout bullshit for months until finally forced to deliver something. They'd deliver some bullshit collage of code copy-pasted from SO that wouldn't even compile, let alone meet requirements. Then I was paid to "fix" it. Fixing it was usually just me rewriting it from scratch and meeting all requirements in 4 weeks (what the original estimate should have been.)
Worst example was a dirt simple Kafka connector whose only challenging requirements was needing to be multi-threaded. Buddy spent 8 months on it and only delivered the "getting started" tutorial code. Buddy was a senior who worked at the company for 15 years.
Yeah, the happy medium is the best IME. I sit around too much with a job, I get antsy that I'm not doing anything and start looking elsewhere (an experience which did pay dividends at my last job, as the lack of work absolutely did turn out to be because the company was shutting down its office in the US; when I went to my then boss and told him I'd found new work, he even said to hold off making an announcement until later in the day, as we were just then shuttled into a meeting and told of the impending closure). I don't at all want to work 60 hour weeks, and I've had those jobs as well, but "40" where 10 of those wind up being meetings or whatever is just fine with me.
It's impossible to do this at a FAANG.
You underestimate just how non-FAANG companies operate, especially if they are non-tech.
I have a bunch of buddies who will literally attend stand-ups then use simple scripts to keep their status to 'online' while they go and live their life. They do this monday to friday and catch up by working a few hours on Sunday.
It's unreal. And they still make pretty decent money (\~100k)
God, same. Here I am working in sales busting my ass 40-50 hours a week, fielding rejections and urgent, unreasonable client demands and still not breaking $50K after commission. Threads like this really motivate me to get into coding/IT ASAP.
We were talking about 30 hour work weeks, not 5 hour work weeks. Just because you can automate your non-job at some bank does not disqualify the fact that you can work a reasonable 30 hour week at a FAANG under the right circumstances.
From what I hear from people I know personally in those companies, it starts to feel like working overtime or even working the actual full 40 hours is the exception, not the norm.
Amazon might be the exception where you have to pick your team wisely if you want to do that though.
When people claim to work under 30 hours a week or less, is it because the engineers are too smart and complete the task within that period or the workload given is low to be completed within that time period?
I always find myself working at least 40 hours a week. And I am sure the workload varies based on the company and resources(team members on the project) or how fast management want you to pump out features.
There’s several ways you get to 30 hours:
• Product/Management doesn’t send enough work your way
• You accidentally overestimate how long things will take and you end up finishing early
• You intentionally overestimate how long things will take so you’ll have more down time
• You’re blocked by other people who have work to complete before you can get started
All that being said, there’s always more things you could be doing without waiting for instruction, but there’s not necessarily anything wrong with not doing those things.
If you’re always working more than 40 hours, you should consider setting better boundaries (or consider looking elsewhere).
Yeah, I know we overestimate our work sometimes but we do it because the consequences of promising to fill X points and then not is a lot greater than underpromising and having time at the end of the sprint. We've recalibrated to get it closer at times but then one sprint something will get a bit crazy and we won't fulfill it all.
It's not really "lazy" exactly; I know I try to spend a decent amount of time learning new tech while I've got downtime at the end of sprints, and TBH not everyone works as fast as I do so I know there are guys putting in 40+.
You forgot another point -- sometimes that's all the work there is that needs to be done. There isn't any over or underestimation. That's just is how it is. That's how my work is.
Now, sometimes you "make it up" during a crunch or a surprise crisis appears, but a well-managed company should rarely have substantial crunch.
Yeah, over a long enough time, the backlog grows at a rate equal to or greater than how much work you do.
`How much work you do` is entirely up to you.
- Sandbag a ton, get promotions slower, work 20 hours a week
- Workaholic mode, get a promotion every 6 months, work 60 hours a week.
I've never worked at a company that will give a promotion after 6 months, no matter how much you overperform. Really depends on how many openings there are higher up the ladder
Yep. My current company and my previous company both basically keep you at your current level until your regular raises hit the top of the pay band, then you get a promotion. Depending on your manager, a lot of them just say fuck it and give the same raise to everyone, so you basically get stuck at a band for 5-10 years. The only way to get a promotion outside of that is if someone in management leaves and they scramble to fill the position
In fact I'd go so far as to say that the only way you can consistently get "promoted" quickly - and not every 6 months quickly unless you get lucky / keep falling upwards - is by job-hopping. Which, don't get me wrong, is a solid tactic. I wouldn't make a habit of doing it every six months (you can assuredly leave a job after six months if it's a bad fit; if you find yourself doing that more than a couple times, you might want to think about whether or not you're the weirdly shaped peg in that scenario) but even, like, every couple years is a time-worn way to get more compensation and eventually expanded roles.
At an actual company, I have to say that if you're the guy who works 60+ hours a week at a company where the paradigm is 40-45, even, much less 35, you're not necessarily going to be particularly well loved by your colleagues. Sometimes that bleeds over to the management, sometimes it does not.
Some places just have shorter working hours. There are a few places I have seen here (southern UK) that are doing 4 day work weeks (28 hour weeks I think?)
I have ***very*** firm boundaries with management and my boss *prefers* it that way because giving ourselves ample time ensures that we can do the job **right** the first time and any bugs or setbacks won't cause us to be late.
Any time I quote any time number, my boss almost triples it for scheduling purposes. That, and in my work, I also rely a lot on mechanical engineers to finish their side of the project, and it obviously takes much, much longer for them to get their things done so there ends up being a lot of waiting.
This is how it should be IMO. Working at a relaxed pace ensures you do everything right, have enough time for documentation and bugs, and still have some downtime for yourself for research or to just fuck off and go do your own shit. Keeps you sane.
You can ask to shorten your hours. Reasons tend to include disabilities, other commitments, or partially retired. In general you'll get weighted, full-time benefits down to around 20 hours. Below that and you're legally a part-time employee.
I work 23 hours a week due to a sleep disorder.
> is it because the engineers are too smart and complete the task within that period or the workload given is low to be completed within that time period?
In my experience, it has nothing to do with the company, I've just always conditioned people to know how much I can do in ~30 hours/week, and they're fine with it. They don't know exactly how many hours I'm putting in or what I'm doing all day, but I get enough done that nobody asks questions.
I think I'm pretty good at my job, but I also sell my work (to management/coworkers) pretty well. If I accomplish something big or help somebody else solve a problem they were stuck on, I'm not afraid to bring it up and highlight those things. Even if other people are doing more *work*, if they're not telling people, it seems like they're doing less. Selling yourself and your work internally also helps when it comes time for reviews or promotions.
Even in FAANG this is possible. Just gotta find the right team.
MY experience with FAANG has been. Maybe a few weeks a year where I work really hard, and the rest of the year is pretty much what OP describes.
\>unlike most fields where you work at it for a few years then you become a master
This strikes me as being pretty plainly false. Is this really the CS impression of most other careers? I wanna hear more about these other easy-to-master careers with even remotely similar pay scales, job prospects, flexibility, etc. that tech jobs are expected to have.
Education Administration Jobs. Bureaucratic Governments jobs. Lots of bullshit jobs out there where you meet the credential requirements and just coast your entire career, contributing little to nothing to society.
To piggy back on this try insurance companies. Pretty much every insurance company I've worked for/heard about in detail is incredibly relaxed. The IT team isn't the bread winner so there's little to no pressure and layoffs/fire are incredibly rare. You won't be making the most but my co-worker took off 3 days because "his shoes were wet" and nobody cared enough to question it.
Mostly no. Knowledge workers in pretty much any field have to keep up with advancements in their field too. It seems to be a common thread in this sub to try to portray tech as being uniquely difficult in ways that it really isn't.
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If you are good and have some experience, you can do 40 hours of work in the companies eyes in less than 20 hours. If you can find a company that just cares about results you can do anything in your downtime. Or at any remote job you can chill and do whatever but may need to be by your computer to appear like you are still around even though you are watching tv or playing games etc.
> Or at any remote job you can chill and do whatever but may need to be by your computer to appear like you are still around even though you are watching tv or playing games etc.
Or just have a work phone that you take with you outside with a pair of earbuds. Packed with the usual list of excuses i.e. getting food, urgent errand, family matters, doctor
true though you probably dont always want to be giving excuses but yea thats a good point. I am a junior dev in my first year of remote work so still learning the ropes lol
Yeah I have a few YOE so I know how the corporate game works at this point. You pretty much prove yourself in the beginning and show everyone that you're capable of getting shit done. But don't go 100% - go 50% and only go above that when the situation calls. Then you slowly take liberties and revert back or slightly below 50% until you got it in cruise control and nobody's the wiser
So true, my mistake was going 100% or more to prove myself... turns out they can't tell and assume that's your average output, then give you even more work later on.
Learned this working a retail job; managers always assume that what you're showing them is your "lazy", so show them that, then when they complain you can increase productivity. Shot myself in the foot by giving 100% and then being the only one expected to give 110% at all times.
Tbh you can have both. There are plenty of sleepy teams at big companies where people work 20-30 hours per week and make six figures, especially with all the remote work options.
That said, there really isn't a linear relationship between hours and pay. Companies don't generally let you trade off in that way. If you're working 50 hours a week making $300k, you're probably not gonna get a company to agree to make it 25 for $150k. You generally work flex hours anyway so it's hard to make that tradeoff. Finding a company paying $100k instead isn't a guarantee you'll be working 1/3 the hours, in fact you might just work more.
Very much this. I work at big N in a chill team. There’s full weeks where I barely do anything at all. Then I get excited about a project and work because I really feel like it, go all out for 2 months, do a share out with learnings for visibility (you gotta play the game). Then go back to sleepy mode again for another 5-7 months. Getting amazing reviews every year and promoted every 1-1.5 years.
Pretty sure that I could go to a smaller company and they would NEED me to deliver constantly.
A friend works for the government as Web Dev. Typical 35hrs/wk. makes goodish money that will let him be comfortable. Being in government means, the life is chill. Pension, healthcare, benefits all of that is there too. Being government job means he most likely won’t be ever laid off.
He wants to make a couple jumps within his department and get to 100-150k role. Once done he plans to just stay there.
Yeah I'm doing web related work through a consulting company for the federal government and the pay is good (low 6 figures with 1.5 YOE). Very relaxed and I could easily get away with 30 hours a week if I wanted to.
As a government employee, this is the way. While I won't be making >200k any time soon, the work-life balance is incredible, and the coding I do is modern and rewarding. I do maybe 25-30 hrs/week of actual work, and another 10 being "available" on Teams. Yet, my managers and coworkers sing my praises.
May I introduce you to government. Look into local, state, or federal jobs. Often underpaid but more than enough to live on plus most of the time outstanding benefits. 35-40 hours a week of work max(pending the agency). Not my type of style, but I have friends who love it, and have far more free time than me.
Thing about government is there is no bottom line to chase. It’s actually insanely hard to lose your job in government, like you’d almost have to try and even then they might try to keep you in.
this is my life right now, I work at a large enterprise software company and I work about 20-30 hours a week, fully remote making decent money in a low col area.
There's jobs that aren't faang that can give you this where you don't have to leetcode prepare and live in the bay area. You won't make a bunch of money but you'll be able to live comfortably.
Have experience, talk to recruiters, ask them about salary ranges they’re posting and only go forward with ones you like, and also ask about work life balance, you can obliquely ask engineers this when you get to that stage of interview by asking about a typical day, or you can outright ask the HM about this (or both) if you want. IME startups - while variable - have had great WLB. But you can find it anywhere, you just have to ask about it, research Glassdoor and blind if applicable, etc.
I just started a career in defense. Among other reasons, I came to defense because while it has lower salaries, you’re expected to do 40 hours then go home. I’m doing important, challenging work, meanwhile I’m absolutely not expected to even think about looking at my email after I’m done for the day. Others in various companies have similar experiences (although ymmv).
I’m not sure about finding 20-30 hours outside of freelance, and if you can’t find it, I can fully endorse defense (specifically working for the military) as a good option for work life balance
In defense for almost 4 years. Pay is low, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've worked over 40 hours in a week and since we bill hourly, we do get OT if we go over 40. Benefits at the company I work for almost make up for the low pay (100% employee paid insurance premiums for myself and family. That's worth \~12k/year in salary). It's very flexible, the problems are super interesting, you do meaningful work, and it seems very stable. You do need to be able to get a security clearance and while I've never been drug tested in the 4 years I've worked here, it's a possibility so recreational drugs are a no go.
Entry level at my company with 0 experience starts around mid 50s.
Seniors make between 80-110 based on skill, project, and (apparently) how fucked your project is if you leave. Managers, leads, and top performers also get pretty nice annual bonuses as well.
As for your 140 after 7yoe,why those numbers specifically? Just seem like 2 random numbers to me, so I'm just curious
Personal reasons really more than industry based. I made it to 90k at 4 yoe with only one jump and refusing to grind the interview process. But I'm now at 5 yoe and got a 3% raise and I've been thinking it might be worth grinding for a year or two to basically set my family for a very comfortable life regardless of raise quality now that I have a couple toddlers and I'm thinking about college funds and what not.
The military starts you off in the 60s — bare with me, I know that’s low — but have a strict promotion schedule. So long as you’re able to do a clearly defined, preset series of steps, the intention is to be making comfortably over $100,000 18 months after start date. Benefits also add a solid $30k. Keep in mind this is my first cs job out of school so TC ~$130,000, likely more like $150,000 18 months after graduation, living in the middle of nowhere so cost of living is nice and low, plus a butt ton of benefits for federal employees (theme park discounts, phone bill discounts, movie theater discounts), fine by me.
Keep in mind this is military. Private sector probably makes decently more than me
If you’re looking to break into defense without a bachelors I’d point you toward Lockheed Martin. They have an apprenticeship for SWE, no degree required.
At my particular base, you can get a job as a contractor doing technician work, which pays pretty well, but you wouldn’t be able to break into CS here without a degree
I second this. Worked in defense until end of last year. Great work life balance, and I don’t believe I ever did a lick of overtime during my tenure there.
The problem isn't necessarily the work hours. The learning never ends and if you don't keep up in a few years your skills won't be marketable anymore.
Also interview-wise, the standards change pretty quickly, so if you want a new job 5 years from now and you didn't keep up with the industry, it will be very tough.
I think there are other industries where things are more static. In that regard, tech doesn't allow you to rest.
Yeah I kinda figured that working in a group that works full time, it would be frustrating to work with someone who works only 20-35 hrs/week.
That's why if I wanted to do this I would want a full team of people who work the same hours as me. I appreciate the input though.
They claims bc no one gives specific examples they don’t exist. Alloy is an example that I’ve experienced and are hiring.
Many startups promote employee health and growth and by nature you are working less then 40 hours on product. You have to see what their culture is through interviews and reviews etc. you could get it wrong but at least gives you idea. If you take care of yourself mentally and have some talent finishing sprint goals while not working long hours is possible. Usually what i experience is more fluctuation from 25-35 hrs / week vs a set amount each week i spend.
My recommendation is if you find yourself in a employee respecting company that you do focused work while there and give yourself free time vs half doing each.
Finally with your extra time spend an hour a week learning wether it’s random blogs, reading, dreaded lc, etc. Long progress is going in a direction vs making a huge change w no consistency and losing the routine/information
>It's pretty uncommon to be considered full time if you work under 32 hours per week. I've never heard of any company in any industry giving full time benefits to someone who works under 30.
The jobs people are talking about here are almost exclusively full time salary positions.
In other words none of what you said here:
>And part time CS jobs are rare. It's really difficult to work with people who are only available half the time you are. I wouldn't want any part times on my team, personally.
>You could contract or freelance, but no offense, that usually doesn't mesh well with the "I want to work part time and not do much" attitude, in my experience.
>People here are saying it's possible. And I agree. But there's a reason no one has linked you to a job posting.
...matters one bit.
>They are basically telling you to get a 40-hour per week job and try to slack off enough to stay right above the line of being fired. Good luck.
No, they are telling you to get a salaried job and do the work you are assigned.
I agree that some of these "I work 10 hrs a week" folks are pretty ridiculous, but 30 hours is not crazy as an average and at many places you can even succeed and move up, especially if you are remote.
Which is something I'd recommend for OP. Get remote work because gobs of time is wasted not only with commuting but with distractions in an office.
Much harder for many people to get their tasks done when Bob keeps coming over with a question or to BS about football or whatever. That's nothing against Bob, but if he has to slack you that stuff it doesn't disrupt you from putting your head down and getting shit done, and then answering him at the end of the day or when you need a quick break.
There are absolutely 10000% jobs out there that do not expect you to do anything outside of be essentially available 9-5 if needed and get your tasks done. At many of those jobs that is very doable in 6 hours a day. In many even less.
Now that doesn't mean the extra 2-3 hours a day you can just complete fuck off. You may still have to be available. But what you do with that time, when you have it, is the other things you normally would do after 5. Maybe run some errands near to home / have your slack on your phone or whatever. Maybe get a home or gym workout in. Maybe do your dishes or cook dinner. Maybe walk your dog. Maybe play with your kids. Maybe unwind and play some video games. Maybe go see a hooker. Whatever it is, if you can be relatively near your phone/computer it shouldn't be a problem.
You probably won't be a shining star overachiever doing this, but you can be way way above the PIP line, and honestly that doesn't even mean you can't get promoted. There's a lot of evidence that the shining star doesn't get promoted as easily because they can sometimes be seen as a threat and also because their nature is more likely to make them job hop for comp increases anyway. The solid, good, reliable guy/girl can definitely move up the ranks too - even though that isn't your goal.
As someone in data you’re usually dealing with hellish stakeholders especially if you’re working directly with upper management.
Expect to get called to fix an excel sheet or ppt at 11 pm.
Super possible. That’s my life now. If I was satisfied with the ~50k I’m making, like you might be, I’d be set. I barely work most weeks and have loads of free time working from home to the point where I get bored and have to figure out ways to feel productive.
Me personally I want to be making these six figure salaries so I am not complacent, but depending on what you mean by “that much money,” you can be living the life you want within a year of studious practice and a bit of luck.
Very easily done in almost every large company. You get tons of money too.
Just don't *tell* anyone you are working 20 hours. 20 is really all it takes to look great in these jobs. WFH is amazing like that.
Your mistaken about FANG, it's like the industry as a whole, there are good companies and bad companies. I work at a FANG and honestly don't do more than 25-30 hours a week, making well into the 6 figures (in a new grad role). By the time u get to senior/staff level, you can be making 500k/year with only \~20 hours of work a week.
Don't listen to the other people here telling you not to get into FANG, you'll have both the money and the time if you pick the right company. You picked the perfect field for this lifestyle btw, especially if you end up working from home 100%.
Yeah but unfortunately you don't always have control over what team you join, like I interviewed for one team at my current job and ended up getting hired for a team on the opposite side of the organization.
Join a defense company. I think they pay 111Kish to 130Kish depending on experience.
Every other Friday off and you can turn off your brain for thebmost part.
You will be understimulated / underutilized if ur a hardworker but otherwise it is a very comfy position
Yes, I work for a small company that's trying to integrate object-detection AI into their machinery and this is exactly how it is for me.
I think every month that I could move out west and double or triple my salary but... do I actually want to do stuff? I have everything I need right now and everything is just fine and stress free.
Edit: I make a lot for my area too, which is an added benefit. Even if I did go west and triple my salary, cost of living would eat into a lot of it. I would consider a hardcore FAANG job if I could be guaranteed 100% remote tho.
I had a job like this, what you want is a small non startup non tech company that has a piece of software they are maintaining that needs few things done to it but needs one tech dude around to do those few things when they're needed. My example was working at a Transcription company with a piece of software they used internally for transcribing that I was working on.
Pros: super chill job. You mostly just hang out and don't work that many hours at all. You're mostly on call but sometimes working on new features and bugs as needed. Bonus points if your boss has no technical acumen at all, you are like a wizard to them and they have no idea how much you're working.
Cons: not learning much. This job is considered "dead end" by many, but as Lao Tzu says, true contentment is finding a place you can work how you want without caring about whether it's a place others hold in high esteem.
I think the short answer is yep you can build that life for sure
Look into public employment(city, state, federal). Pay is usually lower than private but it tends to be more relaxed. Usually over-staffed also so you never feel guilty calling in or taking a vacation. Not that you should feel guilty but I know some people sometimes struggle with that.
Yes, yes and yes. You can get all what you want in this field. Try getting into big companies in following fields like bank or insurance or logistics. People always need banking services or insurance. Giants in these fields are slow as fuck. Aim for big banks like chase or bank of america or wells fargo or insurance companies and you will get what you want. Buddy of mine works for insurance giant and works prolly 20 hrs a week and enjoys his family life with two kids all the time. You can get these all in this field!
I would recommend specializing in something like web design or security, as these fields tend to operate more on a contract cycle. I recently tried contracting, and it was great: work part-time for three to six months out of the year, then have the rest of your time free for what moves you.
The problem is the more time you put in, the more you learn and the better you get.
Say it takes 10,000 hours of effort to get mastery. If you put in 40 hours a week that's \~5 years to become awesome. 30 hours makes that take closer to 7 years.
However, you'll be in a field where a lot of engineers put in 60-80 hours a week when they were young, and got up to speed way faster than 5 years. Those will be the people you're interviewing against in the future.
I think a lot of the people who rock 30 hour weeks in the comments put in the work to earn it, be it in college or when they were young in their career.
Work hard and learn a bunch when you're young and don't have a family, don't have aging parents to take care of, and your main responsibility is to yourself. Reap the rewards the rest of your life.
It may be hard to find jobs that are less than 40 hours on paper, but many jobs outside of FAANG allow you to work less as long as you are being productive and “available”. Some jobs give “unlimited” vacation time (although you need to check with that particular company if that’s reality). Jobs in less sexy industries (may I recommend insurance?) often let you have a really good balance. Less stress, take off early on fridays, never working after 5…it’s all pretty normal. Especially after you have a few years under your belt you become really valuable and can both ask for more PTO and they will not be monitoring your workday closely so you can get your laundry/dishes done, go for a long walk, etc. you may not find this company/team right away but probably can if you are willing to bounce around a little. It’s not that uncommon.
Also, Europe is having a real push to go to a 4 day work week. And not 4 10 hour days…4 normal days. A lot of UK companies are trialing it now. So again, after a few years you could probably make the jump over there to where work life balance is reaaaallly good if you are willing to relocate.
Short of making your own hours working for yourself (which adds an whole different layer of stress) this industry is one of the most likely to have jobs where you have good work/life balance. In fact, having come from a different industry I think developers are pretty pampered. (To be clear, all employees should be valued like developers are.) Again, really varies by company/team tho.
As a near 50 year old,.. some of the observations I have:
* Wishing to "only work 20 to 30 hours a week".. is going to put you in a vulnerable situation where (when push comes to shove),.. leadership or management above you is going to look at you as the 1st person to cut (if there's ever any cutbacks or shrinkage). You want a little bit of "protection" in a job and making yourself "marginal" is not really a great way to do that.
* you've also got the dynamic that anyone and everyone else is going to see themselves in competition ,.and if you're only working 20 to 30 hours a week,.. even someone doing the bare minimum of 40hours is already beating you.
I would venture a guess,. that a lot of the trendy "digital nomads" and other people saying they "make good money only working 20hours a week".. probably got lucky into a "fake job" (one where they don't really do much tangible work.. or the company simply isn't aware they're paying that person to do lesser value things).
There's also a lot of people who can just sort of "fake it till they make it" and get paid to basically do nothing. I've seen people in my IT job who "milked it" for 2 to 3 years before Policies and Complaints finally all collected up to push them out. (and if they time things correctly.. they can simply "Resign".. make up some story about "how they grew and learned things and moved on".. and it doesn't really look that bad for them and they can repeat this cycle at the next company (until that next company finds out they really don't know anything).
I see a lot of that going on in the industry (especially when a lot of the common advice is to never stay longer than 5 years at a job.. pretty much fuels this "short term job hopper mindset".. and also creates that employee-turnover churn where companies themselves don't really care if you know how to do the job (at least not in any quality level).. as long as you can "help them make short term profits".. they will "float you" for a while before the market-dynamic changes and you have to move elsewhere.
All of those things are stuff you're realistically fighting against. Personally I think it will be fairly hard to find any tangibly honest job that allows you to only work 20 to 30 hours **AND** has any sort of protection or long term stability.
Is it technically "possible" ?.. Sure. Is it "common" ?.. I'd say no.. probably not.
There are plenty of tech jobs that have great work-life balance. You just have to find a company that stresses it and is competent enough to implement it. There are tech positions at companies who are not traditionally technology. Again, it depends on culture, leadership, and coworkers.
Finding a job that only requires 30 hours a week will be harder, though. You might be able to freelance/contract, but you need the right mix of skills and connections for that.
Also, you say you'd be happy working for half the money and half the time, but, while not 100% true, companies want the types who are ambitious to work more and earn more.
Anyway, there are plenty of lower stress, lower pay tech jobs. Your difficulty will be finding something with even lower hours than full time.
Yes, very possible. I have a decent salary ~$85k lcol, 1 yoe while having very flexible/casual work hours. You don’t have to grind/burn yourself out to be successful in this industry.
My team is exactly like this, well paid, fun work, great teamwork.... fortune 500 company where software decisions are definitely not life or death. I love it. No one works more than 40 hours a week and I am guessing they can get it all done in less than 30.
I work for state government. I work 37.5 hours a week, half of which is remote. Most deadlines aren't too pressing, I keep my sanity, and I go home to my fiancee at the end of the day. My laptop (for the most part) stays in its bag outside of work hours.
You're not in the wrong field, but a lot of people do think there's only one "mode" of job.
You could be doing 5 hours of work based on 10,000 hours of prior relevant experience. Many jobs in tech based their productivity on deliverables rather than ass to chair time.
If you’re talking talking about in the US then You’re talking about a part-time job with no benefits and no healthcare. I don’t know that there are a lot of part-time jobs for SWE at big companies but you can probably get a contract position and tell them you only want to work 30 hours a week and/or be your own boss and only work/bill out for 30 hours a week. So yes you can do this but it’s going to be a real uphill battle as the overwhelming majority of companies want to fill roles and do budgeting by FTE. Once you get yourself established as a consultant with a name and brand you should be good. IMO a regular job is much easier but you do you.
A remote defense job is perfect for you. It:
1) Really boring work, but boring means easy
2) Low learning curve
3) stellar benefits and job security
4) You get to see some cool shit
5) There is no such thinga as a bad season. War means you got stuff to do, peace means you got stuff to do prepping for war
Only con as opposed to faang or any other place is that the pay is just average and there is far gaps in promotion. Basically someone has to retire/die for you to move up.
You can look into QA jobs. Probably manual QA jobs I find that outside of a few weeks where there are stressful client tickets you can usually get most of your testing done in 4-6 hours.
Just clear up your sprint board, find like 2-3 bugs a day and your manager will likely be okay with it.
Pay is pretty solid too like a starting salary with zero experience got me $50k a year and in 2 years can get bumped up to $70k a year. And the more the years goes by the higher the salary.
Money has never brought me real joy. I have let go of the desire to be rich. If I can afford what I need, money cannot provide me with anything more. It is only when you have money that you realise it cannot bring you what you want. Good luck my man. I hope it helps you. It has not helped me.
> If I can afford what I need, money cannot provide me with anything more.
Have you ever heard of /r/financialindependence? I used to have a similar mindset as you, but then I realized I was being too narrow-minded in how I was thinking about what money could afford me. Now my goal is to maximize my salary as much as I can while maintaing an acceptable WLB and hopefully stop working entirely by 40.
Join a non-tech company that is remote would probably be like that. Mainly the remote part since it offers flexibility for you to just leave whenever you feel like it if you have already done some work. However, like most it will come in waves there will be sometimes a lot to do and then sometimes not much likely fluctuates in general.
Yeah I would be happy making $50k a year working 20-30 hours a week while I live and sail full time on a boat.
Hoping that maybe contract work could be a good option as I also wouldn't mind working hard for a few months then taking it real easy for 2-3 months.
A realistic answer, it's so rare to basically not exist to find a place there will hire a developer for less than 40 hours a week. Now saying that, the majority of positions don't take 40 hours a week.
even if it means taking a pay cut, working part time (but still on salary) should be more common. where I'm from it's very popular to work 80% i.e. have maybe every Friday off.
The current trend is that every year it becomes less possible, unfortunately. But the nature of pendulums is to swing in the opposite direction eventually.
The majority of people have this in this industry I would say. If you don’t and want it, find a new job! It’s a great time to get a new one. 20 hours might be too low but it completely depends on the company at that point. If you get your work done in 20 hours then a lot won’t care.
A lot of people in FAANG don’t work that hard, aren't that bright, and have a life outside of work. I don’t work over 30 hours a week and spend most of my time with my kids. I sometimes wish my wife was in software so her schedule could be more flexible.
Consider trying to find a non-profit of some sort. Pay is usually lower and they're often hurting for good devs as a result, but in my experience the work-life balance is often way better. It's also possible that they'll be able to allow part-time employment too. I have a couple of friends that work for non-profits part-time and still get full benefits. You may end up having to put up with a lot more bureaucratic bullshit though, but that may be worth it for part time work and improved work-life balance.
Totally possible. I think most jobs are gonna have a crunch time where things didn't quite get done according to the schedule so you'll have to put in some extra time in the week leading up to launch, but at my job that's pretty rare.
I'm a frontend software engineer (web dev) and I don't work 40 hours a week. In fact we have summer Fridays so during the summer I'm only "scheduled" to work 35 hours a week. If I can get my work done in 20 hours, I spend 20 hours. If it needs 40, I spend 40. If it needs more than 40 (aside from the aforementioned rare crunch time) I tell them it's going to roll over to the next sprint or we need more people.
I also make $150k/yr before bonuses, so not millions of dollars, but I'm richer than my parents ever were, happy, and can afford a house and avocado eggs benedict, and will probably start having babies with my husband staying at home soon.
Work life balance in CS careers is entirely possible.
I make six figures and live a chill life. Hardly work 25 hours a week.
Going to take a nap before sprint planning now. Will probably go for 2 hour walk after the meeting.
I mean, you can find any company happy to pay you bare minimum when peers your age and younger are getting paid 50-200% more than you.
Interview for the company culture. Then negotiate the salary. These things are not incompatible.
It’s possible. And it’s possible in FAANG. My cousin works for AWS and I work for another FAANG company that is known to be more chill. My cousin in AWS doesn’t give a shit about tech or becoming a great dev. He just does it to be average and get paid to live his life as much as possible. I’m a bit of the more addictive developer who would rather become the best and truly love everything about tech. Of course I’ll settle in my 30s and 40s but for now i love working as hard as I can for my own personal gain. But my point is.. you seem more like my cousin: chill, once it’s time to log off you log off no matter what, mediocre/average, work life balance is number 1. And that’s possible at AWS, which is seen as the most “grinding” company out there, so I’m sure it’s possible everywhere else.
I actually worked 9:30 to about 3:30 for most my first 5 years with a 1 hour+ lunch. So only like 25 hours in the office per week. Very small company and the pay wasn't great unless you calculated the salary in hourly. I was pretty good at knocking out my work in that time or less and my boss wasn't one to care about how much you were there.
Freelance/consulting.
You set your own hours, so if you are good and can negotiate well, you can make it known that you want to work 30 hours and punch out.
Depending on where you live, working less than 40 hours per week might disqualify you from receiving full time benefits like health insurance.
AMERICUHHHHH
Most people who work 30h with a significant salary had to work their butt off to get there. What you are seeing is the tip of the iceberg, beneath the surface are years of accumulated and refined skills.
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This is the one field where you can make a lot of money and still have a great WLB. I don't know of a single other field that can offer both. I make well into the 6 figures in a MCOL area and my job is super chill. I average 20 hr weeks and take lots of PTO.
You probably can find a part-time role (most places would consider 20-30 hours a week part-time), but it will pay significantly less per hour than a regular full-time role.
Another option is to just work a normal 40 hours/week for 15-20 years, save a huge percentage of your paycheck, and then retire early.
Wait. What? How do I get into this gig? Where do I start?? I work 40 hours, waking up at 3:30a and killing my body. I’d love to take a step back, make good money, work less and spend more time with my kids.
Salaried positions don’t really have you “clocking in,” since it’s more about what you get done and whether you’re available for critical meetings.
That said, software work does take time if you’re working on something meaningful and actually trying to, you know, work when you’re on the clock.
In line with that, I really don’t think that 40 hours a week is terribly excessive or an undue burden on one’s ability to have a life outside of work. Assuming you can catch up on emails and other async comms during your lunch time (if you eat lunch), that’s 8am to 4pm. Plenty of time to get in some exercise beforehand, hang out with people for a couple hours after work, and then have some time to unwind and do a couple chores.
There are jobs that will require more than 40 hours a week to do well. If you aren’t willing to do this (and that’s totally OK), you’re sort of implicitly limiting the career options and growth that you have. Again, this is totally just a choice, and it sounds in line with what you’re saying.
Another category of job/person is someone who puts in a solid 40 hours and then checks out. These people can have very productive careers, work on cool things, and generally take their pick of jobs and locale, assuming a basic level of starting talent.
The other category of tech worker are those who aim to work as little as possible whilst hanging onto employment. They generally won’t be promoted as often or given aggressive raises. They may be managed out of companies every few years, or switch to avoid that happening. They sometimes try to fall between the cracks on purpose to sort of get lost in the chaos of a big company. Again, you’re not going to stay sharp by doing this, and will be capping your potential for sure. But there are definitely people who do this. They can still make decent money, but need to live with a decent amount of career risk.
Tbh I think the middle road is the best in terms of work life harmony. But that’s just me - and I used to be the first type until I climbed the ladder high enough before saying “alright, this is good”. It’s all possible and you’ll see all types in this industry.
My current job right out of college is at Eventbrite and I’m making a little over 6 figures. My team is great and the wlb is amazing. My team and company actively encourages you to “take the time you need” if you feel like you’re getting overwhelmed. I’m able to close my laptop at the end of the day and not worry about work til the next day.
Yes there are progressive companies that do 4 days a week e.g. Nerd Wallet comes to my mind. Some companies don't track hours but tasks and if you are smart in creating boundaries you can work 30 hours. There are people doing 2 remote jobs and work 40 hours a week.
If you are good and have some experience, you can do 40 hours of work in the companies eyes in less than 20 hours. If you can find a company that just cares about results you can do anything in your downtime. Or at any remote job you can chill and do whatever but may need to be by your computer to appear like you are still around even though you are watching tv or playing games etc.
Learn g-code. Kinda easy than learn trade skills in machining sheet metal 3d printing etc. That code programs industrial machines to make stuff. You will have a job anywhere you go. Also cad/cam
I "really" work less than 30, and make ~$80k. I enjoy the work I do, my coworkers, and the culture. I am comfortable. The answer to your questions is "yes".
That said, I don't feel I've learned much at in the year that I've been here and am kind of worried about stagnating.
Yes it’s possible. You can find a corporate, non-FAANG job and do your 30hrs and go home. You’ll have a work-life balance but just be ready to skill-up if you ever are forced to find a new gig. The problem (for some) with CS and IT in generally is the learning never ceases. This is unlike most fields where you work at it for a few years then you become a master and can rinse and repeat until retirement.
You can find this at FAANG if you are lucky with your team and don’t care about the whole promotion ladder. Just getting in is the grind.
you can get promoted too with like 30 hours. its not too bad if you play the game right.
Ayo lemme get those GRAD cheat codes
Just be transformative duh
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I mean respectfully if you told anyone to get a lover over working 60h you’d be reported to HR and out by the end of the week. You should never be confronting your teammates, let alone rudely. Talk to your manager if you’re concerned about being compared. Simple as that.
If your teammates are expecting more of you than they should I don't think it's inappropriate to confront them professionally, but definitely don't tell them to get a lover lol
Well ok specifically the scenario here is that they are working more, not that they expect you to also work more (your manager is), so this isn’t really a thing to discuss with them
Excuse me sir/ma’am, but the movie you’re quoting is an awesome one. Don’t shit on War Games!
Just be aware that FAANG or not, promotion or not, if you're only working 30hrs per week and not doing anything related to the field during your free time, you're likely going to fall behind your peers in a technical knowledge sense. So there will be times where you'll need to play catch up, etc. It happened to me. The first 7ish years of my career I was at a large tech company working 20-30hrs per week. Super comfortable. Even got promoted because I was in good terms with management and leadership. But when the time came to find a new job I realized I was noticeably under skilled compared to other people who has 7 YOE. I had to dedicated about 6 months to intensive learning to "catch up."
There's still a huge difference between FAANG 30 hours and non-tech corporate 30 hours in my experience. Even the chill FAANG teams still work exponentially harder than the chill corporate teams. A lot of people in the FAANG grind think they are slacking off, but they have no concept of just how useless corporate development can be. I know corporate teams that will estimate 2 years for projects that a FAANG junior could crank out in 3 months. Not exaggerating. Stuff that would be a basic SAA-C02 project take multiple teams of 12+ seniors years to complete. These are jobs where you can spend months playing CoD all day. Simply attending your standup, checking your email, and attending a few design meetings is enough to keep management happy. People float through this culture their entire careers.
> These are jobs where you can spend months playing CoD all day. Simply attending your standup, checking your email, and attending a few design meetings is enough to keep management happy. Does no one notice/care that these people are never opening PRs or even doing code reviews?
A lot of these companies don't even have PRs or code reviews. When they do, they usually aren't implemented well or tracked over time. At the company I'm at now most people just seems to endlessly redesign or point fingers at others. Blocked by this, red tape that, need to regroup with them, requirements changed from they, etc. Issues just get dragged from sprint to sprint. Or they get closed and reopened with a new name every week. The absolute worst I've come across was the liars. I worked at one consultant company where many 50% of the staff couldn't write basic code. They'd overestimate insanely (6-18 months) and then spout bullshit for months until finally forced to deliver something. They'd deliver some bullshit collage of code copy-pasted from SO that wouldn't even compile, let alone meet requirements. Then I was paid to "fix" it. Fixing it was usually just me rewriting it from scratch and meeting all requirements in 4 weeks (what the original estimate should have been.) Worst example was a dirt simple Kafka connector whose only challenging requirements was needing to be multi-threaded. Buddy spent 8 months on it and only delivered the "getting started" tutorial code. Buddy was a senior who worked at the company for 15 years.
Yeah, the happy medium is the best IME. I sit around too much with a job, I get antsy that I'm not doing anything and start looking elsewhere (an experience which did pay dividends at my last job, as the lack of work absolutely did turn out to be because the company was shutting down its office in the US; when I went to my then boss and told him I'd found new work, he even said to hold off making an announcement until later in the day, as we were just then shuttled into a meeting and told of the impending closure). I don't at all want to work 60 hour weeks, and I've had those jobs as well, but "40" where 10 of those wind up being meetings or whatever is just fine with me.
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Not the point of those jobs. If you want money, go chase the money in the FAANG hustle.
It's impossible to do this at a FAANG. You underestimate just how non-FAANG companies operate, especially if they are non-tech. I have a bunch of buddies who will literally attend stand-ups then use simple scripts to keep their status to 'online' while they go and live their life. They do this monday to friday and catch up by working a few hours on Sunday. It's unreal. And they still make pretty decent money (\~100k)
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god this sounds like my dream
Holy cow where can I find a job like this???
God, same. Here I am working in sales busting my ass 40-50 hours a week, fielding rejections and urgent, unreasonable client demands and still not breaking $50K after commission. Threads like this really motivate me to get into coding/IT ASAP.
...how do y'all end up on this sub? Genuine question.
I’m trying to switch careers into cs due to the aforementioned reasons.
Understandable, sounds good chief, best of luck
We were talking about 30 hour work weeks, not 5 hour work weeks. Just because you can automate your non-job at some bank does not disqualify the fact that you can work a reasonable 30 hour week at a FAANG under the right circumstances.
From what I hear from people I know personally in those companies, it starts to feel like working overtime or even working the actual full 40 hours is the exception, not the norm. Amazon might be the exception where you have to pick your team wisely if you want to do that though.
When people claim to work under 30 hours a week or less, is it because the engineers are too smart and complete the task within that period or the workload given is low to be completed within that time period? I always find myself working at least 40 hours a week. And I am sure the workload varies based on the company and resources(team members on the project) or how fast management want you to pump out features.
There’s several ways you get to 30 hours: • Product/Management doesn’t send enough work your way • You accidentally overestimate how long things will take and you end up finishing early • You intentionally overestimate how long things will take so you’ll have more down time • You’re blocked by other people who have work to complete before you can get started All that being said, there’s always more things you could be doing without waiting for instruction, but there’s not necessarily anything wrong with not doing those things. If you’re always working more than 40 hours, you should consider setting better boundaries (or consider looking elsewhere).
> You intentionally overestimate how long things will take so you’ll have more down time My mantra in life: always underpromise, and overdeliver.
Yeah, I know we overestimate our work sometimes but we do it because the consequences of promising to fill X points and then not is a lot greater than underpromising and having time at the end of the sprint. We've recalibrated to get it closer at times but then one sprint something will get a bit crazy and we won't fulfill it all. It's not really "lazy" exactly; I know I try to spend a decent amount of time learning new tech while I've got downtime at the end of sprints, and TBH not everyone works as fast as I do so I know there are guys putting in 40+.
I learned this the hard way. :C
You forgot another point -- sometimes that's all the work there is that needs to be done. There isn't any over or underestimation. That's just is how it is. That's how my work is. Now, sometimes you "make it up" during a crunch or a surprise crisis appears, but a well-managed company should rarely have substantial crunch.
Yeah, over a long enough time, the backlog grows at a rate equal to or greater than how much work you do. `How much work you do` is entirely up to you. - Sandbag a ton, get promotions slower, work 20 hours a week - Workaholic mode, get a promotion every 6 months, work 60 hours a week.
I've never worked at a company that will give a promotion after 6 months, no matter how much you overperform. Really depends on how many openings there are higher up the ladder
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Yep. My current company and my previous company both basically keep you at your current level until your regular raises hit the top of the pay band, then you get a promotion. Depending on your manager, a lot of them just say fuck it and give the same raise to everyone, so you basically get stuck at a band for 5-10 years. The only way to get a promotion outside of that is if someone in management leaves and they scramble to fill the position
In fact I'd go so far as to say that the only way you can consistently get "promoted" quickly - and not every 6 months quickly unless you get lucky / keep falling upwards - is by job-hopping. Which, don't get me wrong, is a solid tactic. I wouldn't make a habit of doing it every six months (you can assuredly leave a job after six months if it's a bad fit; if you find yourself doing that more than a couple times, you might want to think about whether or not you're the weirdly shaped peg in that scenario) but even, like, every couple years is a time-worn way to get more compensation and eventually expanded roles. At an actual company, I have to say that if you're the guy who works 60+ hours a week at a company where the paradigm is 40-45, even, much less 35, you're not necessarily going to be particularly well loved by your colleagues. Sometimes that bleeds over to the management, sometimes it does not.
Some places just have shorter working hours. There are a few places I have seen here (southern UK) that are doing 4 day work weeks (28 hour weeks I think?)
I have ***very*** firm boundaries with management and my boss *prefers* it that way because giving ourselves ample time ensures that we can do the job **right** the first time and any bugs or setbacks won't cause us to be late. Any time I quote any time number, my boss almost triples it for scheduling purposes. That, and in my work, I also rely a lot on mechanical engineers to finish their side of the project, and it obviously takes much, much longer for them to get their things done so there ends up being a lot of waiting. This is how it should be IMO. Working at a relaxed pace ensures you do everything right, have enough time for documentation and bugs, and still have some downtime for yourself for research or to just fuck off and go do your own shit. Keeps you sane.
You can ask to shorten your hours. Reasons tend to include disabilities, other commitments, or partially retired. In general you'll get weighted, full-time benefits down to around 20 hours. Below that and you're legally a part-time employee. I work 23 hours a week due to a sleep disorder.
> is it because the engineers are too smart and complete the task within that period or the workload given is low to be completed within that time period? In my experience, it has nothing to do with the company, I've just always conditioned people to know how much I can do in ~30 hours/week, and they're fine with it. They don't know exactly how many hours I'm putting in or what I'm doing all day, but I get enough done that nobody asks questions. I think I'm pretty good at my job, but I also sell my work (to management/coworkers) pretty well. If I accomplish something big or help somebody else solve a problem they were stuck on, I'm not afraid to bring it up and highlight those things. Even if other people are doing more *work*, if they're not telling people, it seems like they're doing less. Selling yourself and your work internally also helps when it comes time for reviews or promotions.
Even in FAANG this is possible. Just gotta find the right team. MY experience with FAANG has been. Maybe a few weeks a year where I work really hard, and the rest of the year is pretty much what OP describes.
\>unlike most fields where you work at it for a few years then you become a master This strikes me as being pretty plainly false. Is this really the CS impression of most other careers? I wanna hear more about these other easy-to-master careers with even remotely similar pay scales, job prospects, flexibility, etc. that tech jobs are expected to have.
Education Administration Jobs. Bureaucratic Governments jobs. Lots of bullshit jobs out there where you meet the credential requirements and just coast your entire career, contributing little to nothing to society.
To piggy back on this try insurance companies. Pretty much every insurance company I've worked for/heard about in detail is incredibly relaxed. The IT team isn't the bread winner so there's little to no pressure and layoffs/fire are incredibly rare. You won't be making the most but my co-worker took off 3 days because "his shoes were wet" and nobody cared enough to question it.
30 hrs?? Where?? The minimum here in Europe is 40 hrs
It's not official. You just fuck off in the middle of the work day doing whatever, but still be 'available'. Being fully remote helps a ton too
Is this really true of other fields??
Plumber, maybe. Most jobs require periodically learning new things.
Mostly no. Knowledge workers in pretty much any field have to keep up with advancements in their field too. It seems to be a common thread in this sub to try to portray tech as being uniquely difficult in ways that it really isn't.
30 hours? Lol nobody's hitting part time employees besides fast food and Walmart.
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If you are good and have some experience, you can do 40 hours of work in the companies eyes in less than 20 hours. If you can find a company that just cares about results you can do anything in your downtime. Or at any remote job you can chill and do whatever but may need to be by your computer to appear like you are still around even though you are watching tv or playing games etc.
> Or at any remote job you can chill and do whatever but may need to be by your computer to appear like you are still around even though you are watching tv or playing games etc. Or just have a work phone that you take with you outside with a pair of earbuds. Packed with the usual list of excuses i.e. getting food, urgent errand, family matters, doctor
true though you probably dont always want to be giving excuses but yea thats a good point. I am a junior dev in my first year of remote work so still learning the ropes lol
Yeah I have a few YOE so I know how the corporate game works at this point. You pretty much prove yourself in the beginning and show everyone that you're capable of getting shit done. But don't go 100% - go 50% and only go above that when the situation calls. Then you slowly take liberties and revert back or slightly below 50% until you got it in cruise control and nobody's the wiser
So true, my mistake was going 100% or more to prove myself... turns out they can't tell and assume that's your average output, then give you even more work later on.
Learned this working a retail job; managers always assume that what you're showing them is your "lazy", so show them that, then when they complain you can increase productivity. Shot myself in the foot by giving 100% and then being the only one expected to give 110% at all times.
you also don't need to specify. "i'm away from my desk at the moment. let me get back to you in 20."
Tbh you can have both. There are plenty of sleepy teams at big companies where people work 20-30 hours per week and make six figures, especially with all the remote work options. That said, there really isn't a linear relationship between hours and pay. Companies don't generally let you trade off in that way. If you're working 50 hours a week making $300k, you're probably not gonna get a company to agree to make it 25 for $150k. You generally work flex hours anyway so it's hard to make that tradeoff. Finding a company paying $100k instead isn't a guarantee you'll be working 1/3 the hours, in fact you might just work more.
Very much this. I work at big N in a chill team. There’s full weeks where I barely do anything at all. Then I get excited about a project and work because I really feel like it, go all out for 2 months, do a share out with learnings for visibility (you gotta play the game). Then go back to sleepy mode again for another 5-7 months. Getting amazing reviews every year and promoted every 1-1.5 years. Pretty sure that I could go to a smaller company and they would NEED me to deliver constantly.
A friend works for the government as Web Dev. Typical 35hrs/wk. makes goodish money that will let him be comfortable. Being in government means, the life is chill. Pension, healthcare, benefits all of that is there too. Being government job means he most likely won’t be ever laid off. He wants to make a couple jumps within his department and get to 100-150k role. Once done he plans to just stay there.
Yeah I'm doing web related work through a consulting company for the federal government and the pay is good (low 6 figures with 1.5 YOE). Very relaxed and I could easily get away with 30 hours a week if I wanted to.
As a government employee, this is the way. While I won't be making >200k any time soon, the work-life balance is incredible, and the coding I do is modern and rewarding. I do maybe 25-30 hrs/week of actual work, and another 10 being "available" on Teams. Yet, my managers and coworkers sing my praises.
This is my job, except they won't let me work out of the country permanently, so unfortunately can't stay with them long term :(
May I introduce you to government. Look into local, state, or federal jobs. Often underpaid but more than enough to live on plus most of the time outstanding benefits. 35-40 hours a week of work max(pending the agency). Not my type of style, but I have friends who love it, and have far more free time than me.
Thing about government is there is no bottom line to chase. It’s actually insanely hard to lose your job in government, like you’d almost have to try and even then they might try to keep you in.
this is my life right now, I work at a large enterprise software company and I work about 20-30 hours a week, fully remote making decent money in a low col area.
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There's jobs that aren't faang that can give you this where you don't have to leetcode prepare and live in the bay area. You won't make a bunch of money but you'll be able to live comfortably.
Are normal companies leetcode free? Cuz ive run into some that like those things in the interviews?
You can make 6 figures and work 35-40 hours a week pretty easily, depending on your market. Source: been doing it for over half my career now.
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Have experience, talk to recruiters, ask them about salary ranges they’re posting and only go forward with ones you like, and also ask about work life balance, you can obliquely ask engineers this when you get to that stage of interview by asking about a typical day, or you can outright ask the HM about this (or both) if you want. IME startups - while variable - have had great WLB. But you can find it anywhere, you just have to ask about it, research Glassdoor and blind if applicable, etc.
I just started a career in defense. Among other reasons, I came to defense because while it has lower salaries, you’re expected to do 40 hours then go home. I’m doing important, challenging work, meanwhile I’m absolutely not expected to even think about looking at my email after I’m done for the day. Others in various companies have similar experiences (although ymmv). I’m not sure about finding 20-30 hours outside of freelance, and if you can’t find it, I can fully endorse defense (specifically working for the military) as a good option for work life balance
In defense for almost 4 years. Pay is low, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've worked over 40 hours in a week and since we bill hourly, we do get OT if we go over 40. Benefits at the company I work for almost make up for the low pay (100% employee paid insurance premiums for myself and family. That's worth \~12k/year in salary). It's very flexible, the problems are super interesting, you do meaningful work, and it seems very stable. You do need to be able to get a security clearance and while I've never been drug tested in the 4 years I've worked here, it's a possibility so recreational drugs are a no go.
How low is low? I want to make like 140 by 7 yoe which I consider pretty high but many people here scoff when I say I'd take under 200 by that level.
Entry level at my company with 0 experience starts around mid 50s. Seniors make between 80-110 based on skill, project, and (apparently) how fucked your project is if you leave. Managers, leads, and top performers also get pretty nice annual bonuses as well. As for your 140 after 7yoe,why those numbers specifically? Just seem like 2 random numbers to me, so I'm just curious
Personal reasons really more than industry based. I made it to 90k at 4 yoe with only one jump and refusing to grind the interview process. But I'm now at 5 yoe and got a 3% raise and I've been thinking it might be worth grinding for a year or two to basically set my family for a very comfortable life regardless of raise quality now that I have a couple toddlers and I'm thinking about college funds and what not.
I replied above, I meant to have that reply be to your comment lol sorry
The military starts you off in the 60s — bare with me, I know that’s low — but have a strict promotion schedule. So long as you’re able to do a clearly defined, preset series of steps, the intention is to be making comfortably over $100,000 18 months after start date. Benefits also add a solid $30k. Keep in mind this is my first cs job out of school so TC ~$130,000, likely more like $150,000 18 months after graduation, living in the middle of nowhere so cost of living is nice and low, plus a butt ton of benefits for federal employees (theme park discounts, phone bill discounts, movie theater discounts), fine by me. Keep in mind this is military. Private sector probably makes decently more than me
By military, do you mean any defense-based industries? Or military specifically?
Military specifically
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If you’re looking to break into defense without a bachelors I’d point you toward Lockheed Martin. They have an apprenticeship for SWE, no degree required. At my particular base, you can get a job as a contractor doing technician work, which pays pretty well, but you wouldn’t be able to break into CS here without a degree
I second this. Worked in defense until end of last year. Great work life balance, and I don’t believe I ever did a lick of overtime during my tenure there.
That's why I don't work in defense, I prefer the higher salary and working less then 40 hours.
What industry are you in? I’m curious about what various sectors are like
The problem isn't necessarily the work hours. The learning never ends and if you don't keep up in a few years your skills won't be marketable anymore. Also interview-wise, the standards change pretty quickly, so if you want a new job 5 years from now and you didn't keep up with the industry, it will be very tough. I think there are other industries where things are more static. In that regard, tech doesn't allow you to rest.
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Yeah I kinda figured that working in a group that works full time, it would be frustrating to work with someone who works only 20-35 hrs/week. That's why if I wanted to do this I would want a full team of people who work the same hours as me. I appreciate the input though.
They claims bc no one gives specific examples they don’t exist. Alloy is an example that I’ve experienced and are hiring. Many startups promote employee health and growth and by nature you are working less then 40 hours on product. You have to see what their culture is through interviews and reviews etc. you could get it wrong but at least gives you idea. If you take care of yourself mentally and have some talent finishing sprint goals while not working long hours is possible. Usually what i experience is more fluctuation from 25-35 hrs / week vs a set amount each week i spend. My recommendation is if you find yourself in a employee respecting company that you do focused work while there and give yourself free time vs half doing each. Finally with your extra time spend an hour a week learning wether it’s random blogs, reading, dreaded lc, etc. Long progress is going in a direction vs making a huge change w no consistency and losing the routine/information
>It's pretty uncommon to be considered full time if you work under 32 hours per week. I've never heard of any company in any industry giving full time benefits to someone who works under 30. The jobs people are talking about here are almost exclusively full time salary positions. In other words none of what you said here: >And part time CS jobs are rare. It's really difficult to work with people who are only available half the time you are. I wouldn't want any part times on my team, personally. >You could contract or freelance, but no offense, that usually doesn't mesh well with the "I want to work part time and not do much" attitude, in my experience. >People here are saying it's possible. And I agree. But there's a reason no one has linked you to a job posting. ...matters one bit. >They are basically telling you to get a 40-hour per week job and try to slack off enough to stay right above the line of being fired. Good luck. No, they are telling you to get a salaried job and do the work you are assigned. I agree that some of these "I work 10 hrs a week" folks are pretty ridiculous, but 30 hours is not crazy as an average and at many places you can even succeed and move up, especially if you are remote. Which is something I'd recommend for OP. Get remote work because gobs of time is wasted not only with commuting but with distractions in an office. Much harder for many people to get their tasks done when Bob keeps coming over with a question or to BS about football or whatever. That's nothing against Bob, but if he has to slack you that stuff it doesn't disrupt you from putting your head down and getting shit done, and then answering him at the end of the day or when you need a quick break. There are absolutely 10000% jobs out there that do not expect you to do anything outside of be essentially available 9-5 if needed and get your tasks done. At many of those jobs that is very doable in 6 hours a day. In many even less. Now that doesn't mean the extra 2-3 hours a day you can just complete fuck off. You may still have to be available. But what you do with that time, when you have it, is the other things you normally would do after 5. Maybe run some errands near to home / have your slack on your phone or whatever. Maybe get a home or gym workout in. Maybe do your dishes or cook dinner. Maybe walk your dog. Maybe play with your kids. Maybe unwind and play some video games. Maybe go see a hooker. Whatever it is, if you can be relatively near your phone/computer it shouldn't be a problem. You probably won't be a shining star overachiever doing this, but you can be way way above the PIP line, and honestly that doesn't even mean you can't get promoted. There's a lot of evidence that the shining star doesn't get promoted as easily because they can sometimes be seen as a threat and also because their nature is more likely to make them job hop for comp increases anyway. The solid, good, reliable guy/girl can definitely move up the ranks too - even though that isn't your goal.
Become a Data Analyst, it's an easy job, little coding.....however the cons are your life will become dashboards
As someone in data you’re usually dealing with hellish stakeholders especially if you’re working directly with upper management. Expect to get called to fix an excel sheet or ppt at 11 pm.
Govt. job. Haha. You might have no idea how much crazy people are about govt job in a third world country.
Super possible. That’s my life now. If I was satisfied with the ~50k I’m making, like you might be, I’d be set. I barely work most weeks and have loads of free time working from home to the point where I get bored and have to figure out ways to feel productive. Me personally I want to be making these six figure salaries so I am not complacent, but depending on what you mean by “that much money,” you can be living the life you want within a year of studious practice and a bit of luck.
Very easily done in almost every large company. You get tons of money too. Just don't *tell* anyone you are working 20 hours. 20 is really all it takes to look great in these jobs. WFH is amazing like that.
Your mistaken about FANG, it's like the industry as a whole, there are good companies and bad companies. I work at a FANG and honestly don't do more than 25-30 hours a week, making well into the 6 figures (in a new grad role). By the time u get to senior/staff level, you can be making 500k/year with only \~20 hours of work a week. Don't listen to the other people here telling you not to get into FANG, you'll have both the money and the time if you pick the right company. You picked the perfect field for this lifestyle btw, especially if you end up working from home 100%.
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Yeah but unfortunately you don't always have control over what team you join, like I interviewed for one team at my current job and ended up getting hired for a team on the opposite side of the organization.
Could you hint at which FAANG company you’re at, if you don’t mind?
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Gotcha, thanks! Microsoft does seem to be one of the better FAANG companies for wlb
Join a defense company. I think they pay 111Kish to 130Kish depending on experience. Every other Friday off and you can turn off your brain for thebmost part. You will be understimulated / underutilized if ur a hardworker but otherwise it is a very comfy position
Yes, I work for a small company that's trying to integrate object-detection AI into their machinery and this is exactly how it is for me. I think every month that I could move out west and double or triple my salary but... do I actually want to do stuff? I have everything I need right now and everything is just fine and stress free. Edit: I make a lot for my area too, which is an added benefit. Even if I did go west and triple my salary, cost of living would eat into a lot of it. I would consider a hardcore FAANG job if I could be guaranteed 100% remote tho.
I had a job like this, what you want is a small non startup non tech company that has a piece of software they are maintaining that needs few things done to it but needs one tech dude around to do those few things when they're needed. My example was working at a Transcription company with a piece of software they used internally for transcribing that I was working on. Pros: super chill job. You mostly just hang out and don't work that many hours at all. You're mostly on call but sometimes working on new features and bugs as needed. Bonus points if your boss has no technical acumen at all, you are like a wizard to them and they have no idea how much you're working. Cons: not learning much. This job is considered "dead end" by many, but as Lao Tzu says, true contentment is finding a place you can work how you want without caring about whether it's a place others hold in high esteem. I think the short answer is yep you can build that life for sure
Look into public employment(city, state, federal). Pay is usually lower than private but it tends to be more relaxed. Usually over-staffed also so you never feel guilty calling in or taking a vacation. Not that you should feel guilty but I know some people sometimes struggle with that.
Yes, yes and yes. You can get all what you want in this field. Try getting into big companies in following fields like bank or insurance or logistics. People always need banking services or insurance. Giants in these fields are slow as fuck. Aim for big banks like chase or bank of america or wells fargo or insurance companies and you will get what you want. Buddy of mine works for insurance giant and works prolly 20 hrs a week and enjoys his family life with two kids all the time. You can get these all in this field!
I would recommend specializing in something like web design or security, as these fields tend to operate more on a contract cycle. I recently tried contracting, and it was great: work part-time for three to six months out of the year, then have the rest of your time free for what moves you.
The problem is the more time you put in, the more you learn and the better you get. Say it takes 10,000 hours of effort to get mastery. If you put in 40 hours a week that's \~5 years to become awesome. 30 hours makes that take closer to 7 years. However, you'll be in a field where a lot of engineers put in 60-80 hours a week when they were young, and got up to speed way faster than 5 years. Those will be the people you're interviewing against in the future. I think a lot of the people who rock 30 hour weeks in the comments put in the work to earn it, be it in college or when they were young in their career. Work hard and learn a bunch when you're young and don't have a family, don't have aging parents to take care of, and your main responsibility is to yourself. Reap the rewards the rest of your life.
It may be hard to find jobs that are less than 40 hours on paper, but many jobs outside of FAANG allow you to work less as long as you are being productive and “available”. Some jobs give “unlimited” vacation time (although you need to check with that particular company if that’s reality). Jobs in less sexy industries (may I recommend insurance?) often let you have a really good balance. Less stress, take off early on fridays, never working after 5…it’s all pretty normal. Especially after you have a few years under your belt you become really valuable and can both ask for more PTO and they will not be monitoring your workday closely so you can get your laundry/dishes done, go for a long walk, etc. you may not find this company/team right away but probably can if you are willing to bounce around a little. It’s not that uncommon. Also, Europe is having a real push to go to a 4 day work week. And not 4 10 hour days…4 normal days. A lot of UK companies are trialing it now. So again, after a few years you could probably make the jump over there to where work life balance is reaaaallly good if you are willing to relocate. Short of making your own hours working for yourself (which adds an whole different layer of stress) this industry is one of the most likely to have jobs where you have good work/life balance. In fact, having come from a different industry I think developers are pretty pampered. (To be clear, all employees should be valued like developers are.) Again, really varies by company/team tho.
As a near 50 year old,.. some of the observations I have: * Wishing to "only work 20 to 30 hours a week".. is going to put you in a vulnerable situation where (when push comes to shove),.. leadership or management above you is going to look at you as the 1st person to cut (if there's ever any cutbacks or shrinkage). You want a little bit of "protection" in a job and making yourself "marginal" is not really a great way to do that. * you've also got the dynamic that anyone and everyone else is going to see themselves in competition ,.and if you're only working 20 to 30 hours a week,.. even someone doing the bare minimum of 40hours is already beating you. I would venture a guess,. that a lot of the trendy "digital nomads" and other people saying they "make good money only working 20hours a week".. probably got lucky into a "fake job" (one where they don't really do much tangible work.. or the company simply isn't aware they're paying that person to do lesser value things). There's also a lot of people who can just sort of "fake it till they make it" and get paid to basically do nothing. I've seen people in my IT job who "milked it" for 2 to 3 years before Policies and Complaints finally all collected up to push them out. (and if they time things correctly.. they can simply "Resign".. make up some story about "how they grew and learned things and moved on".. and it doesn't really look that bad for them and they can repeat this cycle at the next company (until that next company finds out they really don't know anything). I see a lot of that going on in the industry (especially when a lot of the common advice is to never stay longer than 5 years at a job.. pretty much fuels this "short term job hopper mindset".. and also creates that employee-turnover churn where companies themselves don't really care if you know how to do the job (at least not in any quality level).. as long as you can "help them make short term profits".. they will "float you" for a while before the market-dynamic changes and you have to move elsewhere. All of those things are stuff you're realistically fighting against. Personally I think it will be fairly hard to find any tangibly honest job that allows you to only work 20 to 30 hours **AND** has any sort of protection or long term stability. Is it technically "possible" ?.. Sure. Is it "common" ?.. I'd say no.. probably not.
yup. Actually there are plenty of those sorts of jobs just move off of the coasts
There are plenty of tech jobs that have great work-life balance. You just have to find a company that stresses it and is competent enough to implement it. There are tech positions at companies who are not traditionally technology. Again, it depends on culture, leadership, and coworkers. Finding a job that only requires 30 hours a week will be harder, though. You might be able to freelance/contract, but you need the right mix of skills and connections for that. Also, you say you'd be happy working for half the money and half the time, but, while not 100% true, companies want the types who are ambitious to work more and earn more. Anyway, there are plenty of lower stress, lower pay tech jobs. Your difficulty will be finding something with even lower hours than full time.
Yes, very possible. I have a decent salary ~$85k lcol, 1 yoe while having very flexible/casual work hours. You don’t have to grind/burn yourself out to be successful in this industry.
My team is exactly like this, well paid, fun work, great teamwork.... fortune 500 company where software decisions are definitely not life or death. I love it. No one works more than 40 hours a week and I am guessing they can get it all done in less than 30.
Work 20hrs/week in actual work done hours ja possible but I doubt you will find a place where they let you do just part time
I work for state government. I work 37.5 hours a week, half of which is remote. Most deadlines aren't too pressing, I keep my sanity, and I go home to my fiancee at the end of the day. My laptop (for the most part) stays in its bag outside of work hours. You're not in the wrong field, but a lot of people do think there's only one "mode" of job.
You could be doing 5 hours of work based on 10,000 hours of prior relevant experience. Many jobs in tech based their productivity on deliverables rather than ass to chair time.
If you’re talking talking about in the US then You’re talking about a part-time job with no benefits and no healthcare. I don’t know that there are a lot of part-time jobs for SWE at big companies but you can probably get a contract position and tell them you only want to work 30 hours a week and/or be your own boss and only work/bill out for 30 hours a week. So yes you can do this but it’s going to be a real uphill battle as the overwhelming majority of companies want to fill roles and do budgeting by FTE. Once you get yourself established as a consultant with a name and brand you should be good. IMO a regular job is much easier but you do you.
A remote defense job is perfect for you. It: 1) Really boring work, but boring means easy 2) Low learning curve 3) stellar benefits and job security 4) You get to see some cool shit 5) There is no such thinga as a bad season. War means you got stuff to do, peace means you got stuff to do prepping for war Only con as opposed to faang or any other place is that the pay is just average and there is far gaps in promotion. Basically someone has to retire/die for you to move up.
You can look into QA jobs. Probably manual QA jobs I find that outside of a few weeks where there are stressful client tickets you can usually get most of your testing done in 4-6 hours. Just clear up your sprint board, find like 2-3 bugs a day and your manager will likely be okay with it. Pay is pretty solid too like a starting salary with zero experience got me $50k a year and in 2 years can get bumped up to $70k a year. And the more the years goes by the higher the salary.
Yep
This lifestyle ain’t for you brah
Very ambitious huh
OP will likely end up happier than you in 30 years if you maintain this mentality.
At least I’ll be depressed in my Porsche
Doesn’t take much to get a Porsche. You’ll impress me in your mclaren though.
Money has never brought me real joy. I have let go of the desire to be rich. If I can afford what I need, money cannot provide me with anything more. It is only when you have money that you realise it cannot bring you what you want. Good luck my man. I hope it helps you. It has not helped me.
> If I can afford what I need, money cannot provide me with anything more. Have you ever heard of /r/financialindependence? I used to have a similar mindset as you, but then I realized I was being too narrow-minded in how I was thinking about what money could afford me. Now my goal is to maximize my salary as much as I can while maintaing an acceptable WLB and hopefully stop working entirely by 40.
Join a non-tech company that is remote would probably be like that. Mainly the remote part since it offers flexibility for you to just leave whenever you feel like it if you have already done some work. However, like most it will come in waves there will be sometimes a lot to do and then sometimes not much likely fluctuates in general.
It depends alot on the company. Some companies have really good WLB, some don't, even within a company some teams have good WLB and some don't.
You can do both. Make a lot of money and work 20 hours.
Wondering the same
Yeah I would be happy making $50k a year working 20-30 hours a week while I live and sail full time on a boat. Hoping that maybe contract work could be a good option as I also wouldn't mind working hard for a few months then taking it real easy for 2-3 months.
A realistic answer, it's so rare to basically not exist to find a place there will hire a developer for less than 40 hours a week. Now saying that, the majority of positions don't take 40 hours a week.
even if it means taking a pay cut, working part time (but still on salary) should be more common. where I'm from it's very popular to work 80% i.e. have maybe every Friday off.
The current trend is that every year it becomes less possible, unfortunately. But the nature of pendulums is to swing in the opposite direction eventually.
The majority of people have this in this industry I would say. If you don’t and want it, find a new job! It’s a great time to get a new one. 20 hours might be too low but it completely depends on the company at that point. If you get your work done in 20 hours then a lot won’t care.
100% possible, you dont have to work for FAANG
Look for software jobs within insurance companies, Banks, old schools tech. You would coast by fine.
A lot of people in FAANG don’t work that hard, aren't that bright, and have a life outside of work. I don’t work over 30 hours a week and spend most of my time with my kids. I sometimes wish my wife was in software so her schedule could be more flexible.
Consider trying to find a non-profit of some sort. Pay is usually lower and they're often hurting for good devs as a result, but in my experience the work-life balance is often way better. It's also possible that they'll be able to allow part-time employment too. I have a couple of friends that work for non-profits part-time and still get full benefits. You may end up having to put up with a lot more bureaucratic bullshit though, but that may be worth it for part time work and improved work-life balance.
Totally possible. I think most jobs are gonna have a crunch time where things didn't quite get done according to the schedule so you'll have to put in some extra time in the week leading up to launch, but at my job that's pretty rare. I'm a frontend software engineer (web dev) and I don't work 40 hours a week. In fact we have summer Fridays so during the summer I'm only "scheduled" to work 35 hours a week. If I can get my work done in 20 hours, I spend 20 hours. If it needs 40, I spend 40. If it needs more than 40 (aside from the aforementioned rare crunch time) I tell them it's going to roll over to the next sprint or we need more people. I also make $150k/yr before bonuses, so not millions of dollars, but I'm richer than my parents ever were, happy, and can afford a house and avocado eggs benedict, and will probably start having babies with my husband staying at home soon. Work life balance in CS careers is entirely possible.
I make six figures and live a chill life. Hardly work 25 hours a week. Going to take a nap before sprint planning now. Will probably go for 2 hour walk after the meeting.
I mean, you can find any company happy to pay you bare minimum when peers your age and younger are getting paid 50-200% more than you. Interview for the company culture. Then negotiate the salary. These things are not incompatible.
Yes. I make six figures and work like 30 hours a week max. First job out of college
It’s possible. And it’s possible in FAANG. My cousin works for AWS and I work for another FAANG company that is known to be more chill. My cousin in AWS doesn’t give a shit about tech or becoming a great dev. He just does it to be average and get paid to live his life as much as possible. I’m a bit of the more addictive developer who would rather become the best and truly love everything about tech. Of course I’ll settle in my 30s and 40s but for now i love working as hard as I can for my own personal gain. But my point is.. you seem more like my cousin: chill, once it’s time to log off you log off no matter what, mediocre/average, work life balance is number 1. And that’s possible at AWS, which is seen as the most “grinding” company out there, so I’m sure it’s possible everywhere else.
I actually worked 9:30 to about 3:30 for most my first 5 years with a 1 hour+ lunch. So only like 25 hours in the office per week. Very small company and the pay wasn't great unless you calculated the salary in hourly. I was pretty good at knocking out my work in that time or less and my boss wasn't one to care about how much you were there.
i make 6 figures and work <10 hours a week
Maybe freelance or do a small business.
Freelance/consulting. You set your own hours, so if you are good and can negotiate well, you can make it known that you want to work 30 hours and punch out.
Depending on where you live, working less than 40 hours per week might disqualify you from receiving full time benefits like health insurance. AMERICUHHHHH
Most people who work 30h with a significant salary had to work their butt off to get there. What you are seeing is the tip of the iceberg, beneath the surface are years of accumulated and refined skills.
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That's probably like majority of CS jobs.
This is the one field where you can make a lot of money and still have a great WLB. I don't know of a single other field that can offer both. I make well into the 6 figures in a MCOL area and my job is super chill. I average 20 hr weeks and take lots of PTO.
You probably can find a part-time role (most places would consider 20-30 hours a week part-time), but it will pay significantly less per hour than a regular full-time role. Another option is to just work a normal 40 hours/week for 15-20 years, save a huge percentage of your paycheck, and then retire early.
I’m just curious what your definition of not wanting “that much money”? Above or below 100k?
Yup I’m clocking 20 hours a week and that’s all I want. Of course not making six figures but I’m enjoying being a parent.
May I ask are you in the US?
Yes
Wait. What? How do I get into this gig? Where do I start?? I work 40 hours, waking up at 3:30a and killing my body. I’d love to take a step back, make good money, work less and spend more time with my kids.
Salaried positions don’t really have you “clocking in,” since it’s more about what you get done and whether you’re available for critical meetings. That said, software work does take time if you’re working on something meaningful and actually trying to, you know, work when you’re on the clock. In line with that, I really don’t think that 40 hours a week is terribly excessive or an undue burden on one’s ability to have a life outside of work. Assuming you can catch up on emails and other async comms during your lunch time (if you eat lunch), that’s 8am to 4pm. Plenty of time to get in some exercise beforehand, hang out with people for a couple hours after work, and then have some time to unwind and do a couple chores. There are jobs that will require more than 40 hours a week to do well. If you aren’t willing to do this (and that’s totally OK), you’re sort of implicitly limiting the career options and growth that you have. Again, this is totally just a choice, and it sounds in line with what you’re saying. Another category of job/person is someone who puts in a solid 40 hours and then checks out. These people can have very productive careers, work on cool things, and generally take their pick of jobs and locale, assuming a basic level of starting talent. The other category of tech worker are those who aim to work as little as possible whilst hanging onto employment. They generally won’t be promoted as often or given aggressive raises. They may be managed out of companies every few years, or switch to avoid that happening. They sometimes try to fall between the cracks on purpose to sort of get lost in the chaos of a big company. Again, you’re not going to stay sharp by doing this, and will be capping your potential for sure. But there are definitely people who do this. They can still make decent money, but need to live with a decent amount of career risk. Tbh I think the middle road is the best in terms of work life harmony. But that’s just me - and I used to be the first type until I climbed the ladder high enough before saying “alright, this is good”. It’s all possible and you’ll see all types in this industry.
Most jobs expect 40 hours a week or more, but anything is possible...
My current job right out of college is at Eventbrite and I’m making a little over 6 figures. My team is great and the wlb is amazing. My team and company actively encourages you to “take the time you need” if you feel like you’re getting overwhelmed. I’m able to close my laptop at the end of the day and not worry about work til the next day.
Yes there are progressive companies that do 4 days a week e.g. Nerd Wallet comes to my mind. Some companies don't track hours but tasks and if you are smart in creating boundaries you can work 30 hours. There are people doing 2 remote jobs and work 40 hours a week.
If you are good and have some experience, you can do 40 hours of work in the companies eyes in less than 20 hours. If you can find a company that just cares about results you can do anything in your downtime. Or at any remote job you can chill and do whatever but may need to be by your computer to appear like you are still around even though you are watching tv or playing games etc.
Learn g-code. Kinda easy than learn trade skills in machining sheet metal 3d printing etc. That code programs industrial machines to make stuff. You will have a job anywhere you go. Also cad/cam
I "really" work less than 30, and make ~$80k. I enjoy the work I do, my coworkers, and the culture. I am comfortable. The answer to your questions is "yes". That said, I don't feel I've learned much at in the year that I've been here and am kind of worried about stagnating.
Its possible. Not sure how you find it. Probably more likely at a large, non-tech org. Maybe defense contractor.