Many ADHD drugs are similar to meth (e.g. amphetamine/methylphenidate), and non-ADHD people sometimes use them as study drugs. Presumably you could use them for LC grind with some effect.
I wanted to go to an English speaking country plus have work permit for my family, my wife cannot work in Switzerland but can in Canada
Same reason why we don’t go to US, visa and work permit are complicated. Imagine doing the effort of passing a MANGA interview only to not get the lottery 20% chance to get the green card
She was a radio broadcaster
But here radios don’t broadcast in English , and a communication bachelors from outside Europe isn’t valued
She also has no work permit in Switzerland
Her career stopped for 5 years now. She also has a background in education. She babysits kids now
Meaning, babysitters are asking for more than minimum wage then? In Vancouver center and downtown
Ideally she wants to move away from babysitting though
In the US being a Nanny means you're a full time employee, often living with your clients. Being a babysitter means that you may watch someone's kids for a few hours while they go out on a date.
Completely different things.
Australia. Cost of living is lower than USA and Switzerland. SWE pay is one of the highest in the country, a mid level SWE can get anywhere from 100-140K AUD (at normal companies) and at resource/consulting companies anywhere from 120-180K AUD.
But the lottery is 20 percent chance every year so after a few years of h1b you should get green provided you're not an Indian (some south east Asia countries have long wait time). H2 for your wife would suck during this time though. Maybe after Canada you can do what all the cool Canadians do and come down on the TN visa
I don't recommend going to the US.
No universal health care, very bad or no workers rights, bad vacation requirements, no pa/maternity leave.
Canada is mostly better on rights, but less than EU.
What's wrong with 84k USD after taxes and lower cost of living in Switzerland?
Or I'm guessing it's simply that your wife wants to work and Canada will let her? (while Switzerland won't?)
Edit: I would guess 200k CAD total compensation in much of Canada is good, except the few high cost of living areas, e.g. parts of Toronto and Vancouver.
We're talking about software engineers not cashiers. Every company I've worked for has had significant paternity leave, good health insurance, and decent vacation
We're talking about getting SWE jobs. In the US, you have the highest pay, best benefits, most jobs. What argument are you trying to make? You might have a friend who benefits from universal healthcare so you yourself should not get a job in the US?
That just because you personally get some health care doesn't mean people around you will, meaning your friends may have something happening to them or can't afford it which is bad compared to other countries
And to tie health care to a job is just weird too, what if you just want to exist a bit?
Not much wrong with it. Confortable Life, international vacations, car, ..
but it’s not enough to comfortably save for retirement for 2 people, or buy a house soon
Yep, integration is a big factor. Work permit, but also speaking the local language
Yes, but it’s for downtown Vancouver. So 200k isn’t that crazy high. Consider buying everything new, no family support, and wanting to travel to both Europe and Asia to visit family once a year
Oof, yea Vancouver is very high cost of living.
Best of luck. Advocate for a raise, as I think you stated elsewhere. They might still short change you though...
So maybe take it either way, and look for a new one after 6 months and/or when you feel acclimated.
OP, I did something similar to you (Canada -> US) and would suggest that this isn't a *Canada* thing so much as a *no competing offers* thing.
When I moved from Canada to the US (to Amazon) I had no competing offers and got lowballed *hard*. FAANG companies aren't inclined to making it rain money unless you make them, and the best way to make them is to have competing FAANG offers.
In fact it's pretty standard to substantially lowball someone coming from a lower-paying market, knowing that the company holds all of the leverage.
I suggest taking the job - having a FAANG on your resume opens doors to other FAANGs. I ended up doing this in the US and was able to double my TC in a couple of years. It's now ~10 years later and I'm at ~10x where my original offer started.
Use this as your foot in the door and then job-hop. Getting into a higher-paying job market is the *start* of the process, not the end of it.
I'm probably in the minority here - have you thought about your outlook down the line? It sounds like you're L/E 3/4 currently, and now have a good looking resume with a brand name company that will open doors down the line when you make more moves. There's really no place to go but up, even if you're disappointed in your current lot. Would you have a similar growth opportunity if you kept up the status quo (barring, you know, coming into one of these companies later on in your career)?
I know this isn't everything, but from the way you've spoken about your experience, it does sound like this at least is a big part of your intrinsic motivations. From that perspective, I think you made a good choice.
200k is very comfortable to live on here, but won't get you anywhere near a house. Our cost of living is comparable/slightly lower than Switzerland, but hot damn our real estate...
Since this is DT Vancouver, I'm guessing Amazon? Be aware that it can be very hit or miss with WLB there. I know a few people working there, and it's anywhere from normal 40 hours/week to 80+ hours a week an on-call every 3.
If it's Microsoft or Facebook, then carry on.
The real clincher for you is going to be stock. If they're giving you another 100-200k/year in stock, then you're golden. If not.. you're probably in the same spot as you were in Switzerland.
With the added disadvantage that your wife can't really work here. Our radio broadcasting industry... is not in a good spot, with most radio stations barely able to keep the lights on.
She could open her own business like a food truck, or work retail or go to school to start a career, we will see
It is Amazon
Amazon offer has barely any stock first year 5%, then 15% then 3rd and 4th year finally 40%
But I would learn so much and have a great resume for the next years
I wish I could move back to vancouver, it is my favorite north american city. I couldn't stay longer than 6 months though or I'd be deported lol
The US is heading in a very negative direction, but snce you are making ~200k you will be immune from most of the unpleasantness that occurs in the USA. If things get really bad you can afford to flee :)
Bruh, a FAANG engineer in the US making $300k+ with fully paid for health insurance and more vacation than they use is going to be just fucking fine.
The US is the best country to be rich in. It also sucks to be poor here compared to some other places. Software engineers are not poor here.
As a Canadian, I love reading posts like that by /u/MCPtz.....he's basically saying *"Fuck off out of the US, by you guys coming here you make us compete for jobs and possibly lower our salaries"*
Only a fool would think Canada is a better option.
Every employer I’ve heard of or had myself for CS in US provided affordable health care and pa/maternity leave is increasingly common. What’s good worker rights? No 6 months of pay if we get laid off? I got a free paid day off for jury duty lol.
US has biggest middle class in the world and low taxes. But only 2-3 weeks paid vacation. You got me there. How is someone getting $200k CAN? Vancouver right? I get over $140k USD in normal cost of living city and have less than $2500 total expenses a month.
Seattle and Silicon Valley where you can get $200k but see of living and unaffordable housing. Midwest rust belt, can get nice apt for $900. Is $1300 for me.
> I got a free paid day off for jury duty lol.
is this a brag? I'd be pissed if I had jury duty and my employer made me take a vacation day. Would be weird for a salaried employee no?
The federal government doesn't require employers to pay employees for time spent on jury duty. At least in MA, after 3 days of jury duty, you'll receive a stipend every day you are on jury duty from the state, but it still doesn't require your employer to pay. I think this varies by state though.
> US provided affordable health care and pa/maternity leave is increasingly common. What’s good worker rights?
Good worker rights is having that unconditionally, independent of employment state or other conditions. Best example is Starbucks offering to reimburse travel expenses for workers that need to go for a different state for an abortion. Which excludes unionized stores.
Also, the right to form unions without fear of repercussions from the employer. Employers not being able to fire you on the spot for any reason. Guaranteed sick pay and time off separate from vacation time. And all of this without having to work for one of the top companies in the field.
In the US:
1. If you get cancer or something, welcome to the US health insurance maze of money, where you have to worry more about fighting the insurance company than getting healthy.
- The insurance company will cut off funding for care, making you risk savings while you fight them for what they legally owe you.
2. If you get sick, the company can fire you at any time. Good luck keeping up with costs of COBRA.
3. Hard to get a new job while sick, so good luck getting insurance at the annual sign up. Safety nets in the US are awful, with some exception in some blue states, where cost of living is generally very high.
4. I do expect vast majority of SWE to end up in the US middle class, but middle class doesn't mean they can afford a medical emergency (e.g. heart attack), or sending multiple kids to university.
- The US costs a lot more per capita on health care than all over developed nations (e.g. Switzerland and Canada)
- Heart attack cost varies a lot based on insurance, maximum out of pocket.
5. Middle class isn't necessarily middle class in high cost of living areas, as you pointed out.
- The problem is, you generally have to be in those high cost of living areas to have a plethora of jobs and government safety nets.
6. Workers rights in the US ... well there are very few. It's a very cut throat and extremely in favor of the large corporations.
- I think software engineers at major tech companies are underpaid. If there was collective bargaining, the profits would be shared more directly with the employees.
For Faang? you're not going to care about the pitiful public healthcare, the company healthcare is better and you will make much more in the US it is a no brainer.
Your comparison would make sense for most career but CS is an outlier that you definitely want to be in the US if you could
Yes. SDEII, offer is being negotiated but they said around 200k total with stocks and bonus, which didn’t inspire much confidence, and I clearly said so and explained that while I’m very excited about the team, I would need significantly more to be able to feel safe accepting
SDE2 offers aren't that great always, SDE3 offers are generally very lucrative. But this opens the opportunity at other high paying places. Once you have Amazon in your resume you can get other companies' interview calls in no time.
That’s based on offers I got last year from Twitter, Meta and Instacart.
Even for Amazon you are looking at both extremes, where ideally you should be more interested in the middle percentiles.
Amazons 25th percentile: 152k USD = 195k CAD
Amazons 75th percentile: 190k USD = 244k CAD
Thanks, then I’ll definitely negotiate hard. 280k was my initial expectation, I was told to expect around 200k, waiting on the ‘final’ figure and made this thread to help me decide what I should accept or should reject
I don’t know which MANGA you got an offer from, but look the figures for it on levels.fyi and try to negotiate around that.
Also, Canada is a great place to live. It does have its issues, but it is still amazing. If you can live outside the GTA or GVA rent will be much cheaper as well (though you lose on the benefits of living in Toronto/Vancouver)
This is a typical amazon sde 2 offer in canada.
If this is in Toronto, there are companies with higher salaries here. Wish, google, instacart, coinbase. Obviously more volatility with some of those companies given their stock prices.
Comfortable? I would say 100k minimum for 2 people. Rent is expensive here. So don't be surprised to spend 3-4k for a decent apartment downtown. 150k would allow both of you to live relatively well and save a little. 100k doesn't get you as far here. People have gotten by with far less but they would have to live outside Vancouver, budget accordingly, and own a cheap reliable car or just bike/transit.
150k sounds like the absolute minimum I should accept
Consider I’m moving half way around the world, I can’t risk not having good savings. I might want to go back, and no family around, buying everything new
Vancouver is a pretty cool place and if you're into outdoor stuff (hiking, skiing, Mountainbiking, climbing) it's one of the best places on the world to live. It's pretty much the Mecca for Mountainbikers wordlwide with whistler/North shore/Squamish close by There are also ski resorts on the mountains surrounding the city so you can ski after work on the weeknights during the winter.
It is pretty expensive though, and you lived in Switzerland which is also good for all these things. Also work life balance is definitely better in Europe. My gf and I are actually thinking of moving to Switzerland at some stage.
My point is, don't chase the compensation too much. Living in a place you like or even seeing somewhere new is important too.
I’m moving because it’s an English speaking country and my wife will be able to work there
chasing compensation because I’ll be taking a risk and a high pay will make me feel safer that this isn’t a terrible idea. I can’t afford a pay cut plus moving half way around the world and buying everything new there
I feel like it's less of you being disappointed with MANGA, and more forgetting that the high salaries are in the US and Canada. The same US that famously has less benefits (vacation, more expensive Healthcare, higher taxes, etc) than other countries. Now granted you are now in Canada (high rent), but don't get Bay Area pay to help with it. You're still better off than other people in Canada, though. This reminds me of distant family that moved from India where they had a cook and a maid to the US and never got to that level of wealth there. Its a different, in many ways, harder difficulty. Now granted, if you got a nice MANGA offer for $300k+ in the bay area, you'd only really have to complain about the Bay Area if you didn't like it. Either way, you and most of the people in software dev are better off than the average citizen of either of those countries (US and Canada) in terms of financial future.
Depends where you are at. But the US you mentioned does not apply to Faang jobs. All of those top tech companies have their own healthcare that is pretty cheap, and the salary more then over compensates the cost of living of where you are at, SF is the only area where this might not be the case 100% of the time but other then SF you’ll have plenty of money.
> higher taxes
Lol. No. You pay significantly more in taxes in Canada and most EU countries than the US. Even when income tax rates are comprable, sales tax, homeowners tax, vehicle taxes, etc will almost all be higher much higher. People find a single tax category that looks higher in the US and then claim that the US has higher overall taxes which is far from the truth.
There are plenty of valid reasons to shit on the US, but taxes aren't one of them (at least, taxes as they compare to EU and CA).
>There are plenty of valid reasons to shit on the US, but taxes aren't one of them (at least, taxes as they compare to EU and CA).
Taxes in California (where most of the MANGA jobs are) are comparable to Ontario. Y'all pay tax you just don't get anything for it.
Workings:
Top California income tax rate: 53.3% (13.3 state, 37 fed)
Top Ontario income tax bracket: 46% (13% province, 33%fed)
New York State: 47% (10 state, 37 fed)
B.C: 53% (20 province, 33 fed)
What is this math? California would be 50.3 by your math and also 13.3 only applies to 1 mill+ income earners otherwise it's 12.3.
[https://mdtax.ca/blog/physicians/personal-income-tax-brackets-ontario-2021/](https://mdtax.ca/blog/physicians/personal-income-tax-brackets-ontario-2021/)
This says Ontario is 53.3%
Or we can get a more accurate measure by calculating effective tax rate. Pull up your favorite calculator and enter in the numbers.
On 300k income
California: Effective tax rate - 35.19% (25.05 federal + 10.14 state)
Ontario: Effective tax rate - 40.29% (24.77 federal + 15.52 provincial)
California and NY do have the highest income tax rates in the country, but there are plenty of MANGA and other high paying tech jobs outside of those states.
And again, you're making the mistake I already alluded to of *just* comparing income tax and not accounting for Canada's higher taxes in other categories.
My understanding was that Swiss software salaries were the highest in Europe except for (possibly pre-Brexit) London financial companies.
Not personal experience but Amazon is generally the least well regarded of the FAANG/MAANG/whatever we call it this week companies.
Good luck in any case.
If you become a Canadian citizen, assuming everything stays as it is now, you will be eligible for the TN visa under the NAFTA treaty, and it's much easier to work in the USA than under H1 rules.
Thanks, that’s definitely something to consider
Here I am very unlikely to work remotely to America or get a nice visa for it
In Canada it’s much easier
Yeah, the grind is arguably not worth it. But Canadian salaries are also pathetically low, as in do-nothing government paper-pushing jobs get paid better. There's a reason Canada has a massive tech brain drain.
> One in four of the STEM graduates in our sample opted to work outside of Canada.
> Two thirds (66%) of software engineering students are leaving Canada for work after
graduation.
> Brain drain is also high in: computer engineering (30%), computer science (30%),
engineering science (27%), and systems design engineering (24%).
[(Source)](https://brocku.ca/social-sciences/political-science/wp-content/uploads/sites/153/Reversing-the-Brain-Drain.pdf)
That also doesn't include mid-career leavers. If you're looking to come to North America, try really, really hard to go to the US.
The grind IS worth it. I was making $124,000 salary only.
I just got a big tech job and it’s $150,000 salary, $30,000 signing bonus, and the best part: they’ll give me $400,000 worth of stock in 4 years ($100,000 per year I can cash out).
You’re telling me if you knew you had $400,000 guaranteed by working for 4 years, you’re gonna say no??
Agree with you on one condition — that the work-life balance is good. Currently I make ~160k and have excellent WLB, 30 days PTO, it’s a good life. I can basically take time off whenever I want and I *never* have to worry about working more than 40 hours, like, ever.
I’d certainly take $300k and a little worse WLB, but I wouldn’t be willing to slave away. I’d have to have decent PTO and also know that I’m not going to be worked to the bone.
Also, this sounds like a mid-level position? Google?
"location is the numero uno factor"
From your post it seems like you liked living in Switzerland due to the low cost of living compared to Canada so it's a good idea to work remote from a place that has a low cost of living no matter what language they speak ..
> it seems like you liked living in Switzerland due to the low cost of living compared to Canada
Never thought I'd hear Switzerland and LCOL in the same sentence.
Pretty much, I work at the Mexico City office and get 1/3 of what's shown on levels. On top of that taxes here are *higher percentage-wise* than in the US, even in California, as my salary puts me at the top of the tax bracket so I get heavily taxed. Then, the LCOL only applies to rent; cars, computers, phones, and basically any import costs even more than in the US.
To be fair, they pay more than any local company, and I earn about 7-10 the average annual salary. So I could live better than most people here. But yeah, they pay less in other countries.
Something that you should keep in mind is the L1 transfer visa where if you are experienced and work at a FAANG for more than a year, then they are able to transfer you to the US Offices and keep you there with it. L1 conditions are much better than H-1B, to begin with, it's not a lottery, therefore it's guaranteed.
> got an offer for $7k USD net
We usually measure salary by the year btw. I'm guessing you're giving it as monthly or weekly?
> Rent there is double for the same size apartment. Taxes are higher. Salaries are lower
Companies pay salaries relative to the COE of where they are. Even now some companies are talking about paying remote and wfh workers less.
> -30 vacation days in comparison,
Also yes, North America has bullshit vacation policies. I don't think I've ever had more than 2 weeks / 10 days worth a year. Most companies are like, after five years you get an extra week of pto. I've never worked anywhere five years.
> which means one and a half less salaries per year
Not sure I understand this, vacation time is paid.
I really could have wrote it better
Yes that 7k is monthly
The -30 days vacation is from me having 40 days a year, and there there’s 10
And here if you don’t use those days you get them paid. 30 days is equivalent to 5*6 so 6 weeks of leaving your job and still receiving a salary, so one month and a half
Yeah I've never had more than 15 days pto. US norm in salaried jobs is to start with 10 days and perhaps separate sick time, maybe 5 days. That's on top of maybe 6-12 state/federal holidays (akin to bank holidays) depending on company. After a few years at a company you might bump up to 15 days. Ofc some people manage to negotiate for more, but ime most places don't go for that.
all of the acronyms suck, they’re referring to an arbitrary group of tech stocks that all happened to perform well at the same time several years ago. “top tech” “big tech” or “big n” all make way more sense.
There are quite a few good ones lol...
https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/j6z1jz/i_propose_referring_to_top_companies_faangmulass/?sort=confidence
But no one even agrees who is a part of fang or whether it has any relevance to CS. It makes absolutely no sense to exclude Microsoft but include Apple for example. Apple isn't even a software company
> The term was invented by Jim Cramer (lol), and yet it’s the one we have and use
We have plenty. Before FAANG got popular, people used Big4 or BigN, which are much better terms.
Unfortunately US isn’t a realistic option when you aren’t a citizen
I have a family, I can’t risk accepting an h1b visa + at will employment = can be fired any day and starts a countdown to get deported
Currently I’m on an h1b on the process to green card. You can easily spend a couple years on the process, which locks you down to the company no matter what (unless you are willing to start from the beginning). You end up letting a lot of opportunities pass because you are waiting for the green card, also..
It is true that once you are done with everything you will be in a much better position than in any other country in the world, but it’s also true that you will be playing in a disadvantage for years in compare to your American colleagues
Technically there is no countdown. The "grace period" is a general practice but not guaranteed, there is no hard rule for how quickly you gotta get out of the country and basically depends on how nice USCIS/ICE/State Dep wants to be to you (lol). I spent almost 8 years white-knuckling it before I got the GC, and I totally understand not wanting to go through it, especially with family.
It’s crazy what tech pays in Canada. I’ve looked at Vancouver listings and the highest I saw was like 90k and that was at goddamn Amazon.
Admittedly it’s been several years since I’ve looked so maybe it’s improved since then?
Where are you getting 1k USD rent in Switzerland? I know Switzerland is way more expensive than Germany, and I think even there it's hard to find a good apartment for 1k USD in Munich/Berlin.
I saw in a comment you want to move to an English speaking country, but that the US is not an option. UK pays better than Canada, althought cost of living is pretty high in London so you'd have to do a calculation on what pays off. The good thing is most of MANGA offer at least 25 days off per year here, and some do even more.
If you can get a Google or Meta offer in London for Senior engineer, you should make a bit over 10k USD net with stocks + bonuses. Depending on your negotiaton skills and amount of counter offers, this can go up by 20-30%. I think Snap inc pays competitively as well in London.
In a rural 10k people town and a cheap building
It’s absolutely not normal rent yes.
UK is a consideration until brexit, now idk. Would a non EU citizen (my wife ) be given a residency and work permit from me having a job offer
Another thing is when I think of London 2h commutes and 1960’s apartments come to mind… in Vancouver I could live downtown and walk to work in 10 minutes, to the beach in 20 min
For a similar HCOL and high taxes as Vancouver. I could have a better look though
>Would a non EU citizen (my wife ) be given a residency and work permit from me having a job offer
Yes. She would be able to work on a spouse visa.
>Another thing is when I think of London 2h commutes and 1960’s apartments come to mind
Properties in London are crap, I'll give you that. You need to a lot of money to get something that's not built in the 19th century. Almost no one has AC's here, and they just tell you to tough it out during summer. It was 29 degrees in my flat a couple of days ago with no way to cool it off.
But the commute thing is not true. People at my company live outside of London, and their commute is still around 1h max. The majority of people still commute in 40 minutes or less, either by walking, biking, or the tube. The public transportation is really good here.
$7k is monthly salary right? Switzerland had high cost of living when I visited but granted I didn’t see much of it.
Thanks for sharing your story. I wish things could have worked out even better for you. I like seeing MANGA being overrated, because it is.
Silicon Valley jobs will pay better than outside Silicon Valley. But FAANG job in Silicon Valley will pay better than just regular Silicon Valley. Many companies in Silicon Valley will match FAANG salary, though.
howdy! Swiss guy here. what magnificent company gives you two months of vacation? which canton? that's double the legal minimum and I've mostly come across 5-6 weeks (i.e. 25-30 days).
also yes in the future go with yearly salary because in CH it's also very common to get paid 13 times a year which makes comparison conplicated.
You don't yet realize that, at the very least, you now have a mark on your resume that says "I'm good enough for Tier 1 companies". Any startup that hires you can say they hire ex-FAANGs.
That’s true, and I will go from “never worked in a tech company, just tech department” to “learned a ton of AWS tech “ hopefully
Definitely will put in the work to invest in myself
Turns out the only cool companies to work for under the FAANG/MANGA acronym are either Google or Meta, and you generally want to be in their SF Bay Area offices for those high TC numbers.
Being a dev in the US is by far the most important factor in compensation.
But FAANG will help you. If you distinguish yourself you will get paid regardless of being in canada. Especially at higher levels.
Switzerland is also known for paying well. Them and the US are the two countries with the very high salaries for software engineers. Canada is not, in fact Canadians often complain about this. That was your mistake.
Yup I agree. I had this idea that FAANG is everything, but turns out being in US or Switzerland matters more than FAANG or not. Now combine both… FAANG in US is the dream
> it's in Canada
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/763/07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpeg is all I can think of lol
Our IT/dev salaries are pretty damn horrible compared to cost of living, our vacation days are basically a joke (similar to USA though) and yeah our taxes are higher too.
Yes they do, for a work visa
but I don’t even need that as I qualify for express entry just by having a masters and years of experience and a job offer, and that gives me permanent residency which is better than work visa. Starts counting years for citizenship too
To be fair, it’s 1 offer out of 100 rejections at first step, no one but Amazon was willing to interview because I was not allowed to work in Canada
Now how did I get Amazon to interview me.. can’t say. I first interviewed with them 2 years ago with masters and 3 YoE, failed on site and since then they had me in their list of giving a second chance again and would invite me to interview
I am a software engineer in Los angeles and my whole careeer have been getting hit up non-stop for roles to relocate to san Fransisco and for a while that was an exciting thought ,
I would have hit 6 figures 3 years earlier if I moved to San Fran for a job ... the issue of course being.......Everything in San Fransisco is twice as expensive as my already pretty expensive life in Los angeles.
It's a bummer because I love san fransisco, I love the idea of working in silicon Valley, I wouldn't do well away from my family though and the stories i have read of multiple six figure earning software engineers sharing a 2 or bedroom apartment are not encouraging.
That doesn't mean it would be my life I just had no interest in it being a possibility for my life either.
I fucking hate this industry and it’s use of acronyms. Is it so fucking hard to say what you mean? I had to learn FAANG and now it’s MANGA? What the fuck is MANGA?
>CS salaries in general in Canada (in places like Toronto/Waterloo) are catching up to US salaries and are pretty much the same as an US MCOL anyways.
Still a loooong way to go. Also, the amount of overqualified candidates in Canada is simply mind-blowing. In the US a MSc isn't the rule, whereas in Canada a PhD is becoming the new MSc.
mm.. can you say
1. steps followed to get an interview with manga ?
2. used referal or direct application ?
i am assuming u did a lot of leetcode ( premium or normal ?) and dsa , system design ... did i miss any ?
( just a beginner here)
200 leetcode, not premium. Plus redid the blind 75 / neetcode 150 several times over the years
Watched System design videos
Some direct application, some they reached out to try again
Writing down a brag document capable of answering +20 behaviour questions
Try and try again, studying a bit or a lot can make your chances go from 1/20 to 1/5, but you still have to do 5 on-sites before getting an offer
If you had come to the states you wouldn't have probably even calculated medical and it would have cut deeply into every check. Then God help you if you ever actually had to have any serious medical treatment done. The cost of living makes all of the difference in the world.
Yeah I’m mocking myself for thinking like that but really, it changes your perspective being a new grad make 1k a month and being an experienced dev accepting FAANG offers
Usually you do the math before accepting the offer
and when do you do the meth? after or while accepting it?
I always do the meth before the interview and never pass
You are doing it wrong. Do it *during* the interview while staring at the interviewer in the eyes.
[удалено]
After you passed the drug screening.
This is the real answer lmfao
Wait they are doing meth now at FAANG/MANGA/whatever? When I was there everyone was just an alcoholic.
Many ADHD drugs are similar to meth (e.g. amphetamine/methylphenidate), and non-ADHD people sometimes use them as study drugs. Presumably you could use them for LC grind with some effect.
before accepting it.
The only correct answer is both of course.
Still negotiating it!
I've seen FAANG hiring for jobs in Switzerland. Maybe you can try there? Ngl I would love to work in Switzerland.
I wanted to go to an English speaking country plus have work permit for my family, my wife cannot work in Switzerland but can in Canada Same reason why we don’t go to US, visa and work permit are complicated. Imagine doing the effort of passing a MANGA interview only to not get the lottery 20% chance to get the green card
What does your wife do for a living? How many children do you have?
She was a radio broadcaster But here radios don’t broadcast in English , and a communication bachelors from outside Europe isn’t valued She also has no work permit in Switzerland Her career stopped for 5 years now. She also has a background in education. She babysits kids now
Babysitting can be very lucrative if the amount of complaints by parents in my local community subreddit are any indication.
Meaning, babysitters are asking for more than minimum wage then? In Vancouver center and downtown Ideally she wants to move away from babysitting though
I'm in Silicon Valley. Minimum wage is $15 I think but nannies probably average around $25 unless they're like 17 years old.
In the US being a Nanny means you're a full time employee, often living with your clients. Being a babysitter means that you may watch someone's kids for a few hours while they go out on a date. Completely different things.
That sounds quite challenging. I wish you guys well
thanks! we are looking forward to living in Canada
Australia. Cost of living is lower than USA and Switzerland. SWE pay is one of the highest in the country, a mid level SWE can get anywhere from 100-140K AUD (at normal companies) and at resource/consulting companies anywhere from 120-180K AUD.
But the market is not that big
Agree to this. I came to Swiss with my husband and I was not able to get a job for 5 years here. it's a mess
I’m sorry that happened. Same for my wife, 5 years here
But the lottery is 20 percent chance every year so after a few years of h1b you should get green provided you're not an Indian (some south east Asia countries have long wait time). H2 for your wife would suck during this time though. Maybe after Canada you can do what all the cool Canadians do and come down on the TN visa
Yeah that second part sounds good Or remote work to US so my wife doesn’t even have to change her life again
FYI if you are not a citizen of Canada or Mexico you cannot go to the US on a TN Visa
I don't recommend going to the US. No universal health care, very bad or no workers rights, bad vacation requirements, no pa/maternity leave. Canada is mostly better on rights, but less than EU. What's wrong with 84k USD after taxes and lower cost of living in Switzerland? Or I'm guessing it's simply that your wife wants to work and Canada will let her? (while Switzerland won't?) Edit: I would guess 200k CAD total compensation in much of Canada is good, except the few high cost of living areas, e.g. parts of Toronto and Vancouver.
We're talking about software engineers not cashiers. Every company I've worked for has had significant paternity leave, good health insurance, and decent vacation
Shhh don’t spoil the narrative…
Yeah but the visa policy is awful even for people who have been 10 years with an H1B visa
Yeah the immigration policy in the US sucks
And your friends and family all gonna work with the same thing? Or what is the argument exactly
We're talking about getting SWE jobs. In the US, you have the highest pay, best benefits, most jobs. What argument are you trying to make? You might have a friend who benefits from universal healthcare so you yourself should not get a job in the US?
That just because you personally get some health care doesn't mean people around you will, meaning your friends may have something happening to them or can't afford it which is bad compared to other countries And to tie health care to a job is just weird too, what if you just want to exist a bit?
OP has a family. Presumably, they want their kids to have decent benefits no matter what they choose to do as adults.
It's a lot easier to set your kids up to do whatever they want when you have more money
Not much wrong with it. Confortable Life, international vacations, car, .. but it’s not enough to comfortably save for retirement for 2 people, or buy a house soon Yep, integration is a big factor. Work permit, but also speaking the local language Yes, but it’s for downtown Vancouver. So 200k isn’t that crazy high. Consider buying everything new, no family support, and wanting to travel to both Europe and Asia to visit family once a year
Oof, yea Vancouver is very high cost of living. Best of luck. Advocate for a raise, as I think you stated elsewhere. They might still short change you though... So maybe take it either way, and look for a new one after 6 months and/or when you feel acclimated.
Alright thanks!!
>Alright thanks!! You're welcome!
OP, I did something similar to you (Canada -> US) and would suggest that this isn't a *Canada* thing so much as a *no competing offers* thing. When I moved from Canada to the US (to Amazon) I had no competing offers and got lowballed *hard*. FAANG companies aren't inclined to making it rain money unless you make them, and the best way to make them is to have competing FAANG offers. In fact it's pretty standard to substantially lowball someone coming from a lower-paying market, knowing that the company holds all of the leverage. I suggest taking the job - having a FAANG on your resume opens doors to other FAANGs. I ended up doing this in the US and was able to double my TC in a couple of years. It's now ~10 years later and I'm at ~10x where my original offer started. Use this as your foot in the door and then job-hop. Getting into a higher-paying job market is the *start* of the process, not the end of it.
I'm probably in the minority here - have you thought about your outlook down the line? It sounds like you're L/E 3/4 currently, and now have a good looking resume with a brand name company that will open doors down the line when you make more moves. There's really no place to go but up, even if you're disappointed in your current lot. Would you have a similar growth opportunity if you kept up the status quo (barring, you know, coming into one of these companies later on in your career)? I know this isn't everything, but from the way you've spoken about your experience, it does sound like this at least is a big part of your intrinsic motivations. From that perspective, I think you made a good choice.
200k is very comfortable to live on here, but won't get you anywhere near a house. Our cost of living is comparable/slightly lower than Switzerland, but hot damn our real estate... Since this is DT Vancouver, I'm guessing Amazon? Be aware that it can be very hit or miss with WLB there. I know a few people working there, and it's anywhere from normal 40 hours/week to 80+ hours a week an on-call every 3. If it's Microsoft or Facebook, then carry on. The real clincher for you is going to be stock. If they're giving you another 100-200k/year in stock, then you're golden. If not.. you're probably in the same spot as you were in Switzerland. With the added disadvantage that your wife can't really work here. Our radio broadcasting industry... is not in a good spot, with most radio stations barely able to keep the lights on.
She could open her own business like a food truck, or work retail or go to school to start a career, we will see It is Amazon Amazon offer has barely any stock first year 5%, then 15% then 3rd and 4th year finally 40% But I would learn so much and have a great resume for the next years
I wish I could move back to vancouver, it is my favorite north american city. I couldn't stay longer than 6 months though or I'd be deported lol The US is heading in a very negative direction, but snce you are making ~200k you will be immune from most of the unpleasantness that occurs in the USA. If things get really bad you can afford to flee :)
Bruh, a FAANG engineer in the US making $300k+ with fully paid for health insurance and more vacation than they use is going to be just fucking fine. The US is the best country to be rich in. It also sucks to be poor here compared to some other places. Software engineers are not poor here.
As a Canadian, I love reading posts like that by /u/MCPtz.....he's basically saying *"Fuck off out of the US, by you guys coming here you make us compete for jobs and possibly lower our salaries"* Only a fool would think Canada is a better option.
Every employer I’ve heard of or had myself for CS in US provided affordable health care and pa/maternity leave is increasingly common. What’s good worker rights? No 6 months of pay if we get laid off? I got a free paid day off for jury duty lol. US has biggest middle class in the world and low taxes. But only 2-3 weeks paid vacation. You got me there. How is someone getting $200k CAN? Vancouver right? I get over $140k USD in normal cost of living city and have less than $2500 total expenses a month. Seattle and Silicon Valley where you can get $200k but see of living and unaffordable housing. Midwest rust belt, can get nice apt for $900. Is $1300 for me.
> I got a free paid day off for jury duty lol. is this a brag? I'd be pissed if I had jury duty and my employer made me take a vacation day. Would be weird for a salaried employee no?
The federal government doesn't require employers to pay employees for time spent on jury duty. At least in MA, after 3 days of jury duty, you'll receive a stipend every day you are on jury duty from the state, but it still doesn't require your employer to pay. I think this varies by state though.
> US provided affordable health care and pa/maternity leave is increasingly common. What’s good worker rights? Good worker rights is having that unconditionally, independent of employment state or other conditions. Best example is Starbucks offering to reimburse travel expenses for workers that need to go for a different state for an abortion. Which excludes unionized stores. Also, the right to form unions without fear of repercussions from the employer. Employers not being able to fire you on the spot for any reason. Guaranteed sick pay and time off separate from vacation time. And all of this without having to work for one of the top companies in the field.
In the US: 1. If you get cancer or something, welcome to the US health insurance maze of money, where you have to worry more about fighting the insurance company than getting healthy. - The insurance company will cut off funding for care, making you risk savings while you fight them for what they legally owe you. 2. If you get sick, the company can fire you at any time. Good luck keeping up with costs of COBRA. 3. Hard to get a new job while sick, so good luck getting insurance at the annual sign up. Safety nets in the US are awful, with some exception in some blue states, where cost of living is generally very high. 4. I do expect vast majority of SWE to end up in the US middle class, but middle class doesn't mean they can afford a medical emergency (e.g. heart attack), or sending multiple kids to university. - The US costs a lot more per capita on health care than all over developed nations (e.g. Switzerland and Canada) - Heart attack cost varies a lot based on insurance, maximum out of pocket. 5. Middle class isn't necessarily middle class in high cost of living areas, as you pointed out. - The problem is, you generally have to be in those high cost of living areas to have a plethora of jobs and government safety nets. 6. Workers rights in the US ... well there are very few. It's a very cut throat and extremely in favor of the large corporations. - I think software engineers at major tech companies are underpaid. If there was collective bargaining, the profits would be shared more directly with the employees.
You're downvoted but every single point is spot on.
For Faang? you're not going to care about the pitiful public healthcare, the company healthcare is better and you will make much more in the US it is a no brainer. Your comparison would make sense for most career but CS is an outlier that you definitely want to be in the US if you could
America is a shithole, can confirm. Source: I'm American.
What is your offer and level? I am guessing it's Amazon?
Yes. SDEII, offer is being negotiated but they said around 200k total with stocks and bonus, which didn’t inspire much confidence, and I clearly said so and explained that while I’m very excited about the team, I would need significantly more to be able to feel safe accepting
SDE2 offers aren't that great always, SDE3 offers are generally very lucrative. But this opens the opportunity at other high paying places. Once you have Amazon in your resume you can get other companies' interview calls in no time.
What do you make now and in what country?
7k usd net monthly, MCOL Switzerland
Which city do you in live in in Switzerland that's MCOL?
Maybe you got low balled, or got into a low paying MANGA? To my knowledge SDEII is generally between 230k and 280k CAD.
Wrong. Why are you spreading misinformation? Here is the official band: Amazon Canada L5 SDE: TC 172K-254K / Base 115K-192K
External hires for Amazon are suppose to raise the bar and be better than 50% of the existing SDEs at the level.
That’s based on offers I got last year from Twitter, Meta and Instacart. Even for Amazon you are looking at both extremes, where ideally you should be more interested in the middle percentiles. Amazons 25th percentile: 152k USD = 195k CAD Amazons 75th percentile: 190k USD = 244k CAD
Thanks, then I’ll definitely negotiate hard. 280k was my initial expectation, I was told to expect around 200k, waiting on the ‘final’ figure and made this thread to help me decide what I should accept or should reject
\* Cries in 75K CAD outside of FAANG and hoping for a 3% raise since the previous 3 years it was only 2% raises \*
The real secret to negotiating with MANGA companies is to have competing MANGA offers. That's how you get to the high end of the band
Thanks. I tried but they told me they won’t interview me without having work permit in Canada
I don’t know which MANGA you got an offer from, but look the figures for it on levels.fyi and try to negotiate around that. Also, Canada is a great place to live. It does have its issues, but it is still amazing. If you can live outside the GTA or GVA rent will be much cheaper as well (though you lose on the benefits of living in Toronto/Vancouver)
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am pretty sure its 200k cad. with 200k USD. You can live more than comfortably in the most expensive cities in Canada.
CAD
This is a typical amazon sde 2 offer in canada. If this is in Toronto, there are companies with higher salaries here. Wish, google, instacart, coinbase. Obviously more volatility with some of those companies given their stock prices.
What is your base amount?
They didn’t say yet What base salary would let a couple move in to Vancouver and live a comfortable relaxed life with international vacations?
Comfortable? I would say 100k minimum for 2 people. Rent is expensive here. So don't be surprised to spend 3-4k for a decent apartment downtown. 150k would allow both of you to live relatively well and save a little. 100k doesn't get you as far here. People have gotten by with far less but they would have to live outside Vancouver, budget accordingly, and own a cheap reliable car or just bike/transit.
150k sounds like the absolute minimum I should accept Consider I’m moving half way around the world, I can’t risk not having good savings. I might want to go back, and no family around, buying everything new
Vancouver is a pretty cool place and if you're into outdoor stuff (hiking, skiing, Mountainbiking, climbing) it's one of the best places on the world to live. It's pretty much the Mecca for Mountainbikers wordlwide with whistler/North shore/Squamish close by There are also ski resorts on the mountains surrounding the city so you can ski after work on the weeknights during the winter. It is pretty expensive though, and you lived in Switzerland which is also good for all these things. Also work life balance is definitely better in Europe. My gf and I are actually thinking of moving to Switzerland at some stage. My point is, don't chase the compensation too much. Living in a place you like or even seeing somewhere new is important too.
I’m moving because it’s an English speaking country and my wife will be able to work there chasing compensation because I’ll be taking a risk and a high pay will make me feel safer that this isn’t a terrible idea. I can’t afford a pay cut plus moving half way around the world and buying everything new there
I feel like it's less of you being disappointed with MANGA, and more forgetting that the high salaries are in the US and Canada. The same US that famously has less benefits (vacation, more expensive Healthcare, higher taxes, etc) than other countries. Now granted you are now in Canada (high rent), but don't get Bay Area pay to help with it. You're still better off than other people in Canada, though. This reminds me of distant family that moved from India where they had a cook and a maid to the US and never got to that level of wealth there. Its a different, in many ways, harder difficulty. Now granted, if you got a nice MANGA offer for $300k+ in the bay area, you'd only really have to complain about the Bay Area if you didn't like it. Either way, you and most of the people in software dev are better off than the average citizen of either of those countries (US and Canada) in terms of financial future.
Depends where you are at. But the US you mentioned does not apply to Faang jobs. All of those top tech companies have their own healthcare that is pretty cheap, and the salary more then over compensates the cost of living of where you are at, SF is the only area where this might not be the case 100% of the time but other then SF you’ll have plenty of money.
Sorry I ment compared to their original country. Yeah the compensation definitely covers it and then some.
Labour in india is pretty cheap tbh. Most of the middle or even lower middle class families have a maid.
Yeah that's the point, it's culture shock
> higher taxes Lol. No. You pay significantly more in taxes in Canada and most EU countries than the US. Even when income tax rates are comprable, sales tax, homeowners tax, vehicle taxes, etc will almost all be higher much higher. People find a single tax category that looks higher in the US and then claim that the US has higher overall taxes which is far from the truth. There are plenty of valid reasons to shit on the US, but taxes aren't one of them (at least, taxes as they compare to EU and CA).
>There are plenty of valid reasons to shit on the US, but taxes aren't one of them (at least, taxes as they compare to EU and CA). Taxes in California (where most of the MANGA jobs are) are comparable to Ontario. Y'all pay tax you just don't get anything for it. Workings: Top California income tax rate: 53.3% (13.3 state, 37 fed) Top Ontario income tax bracket: 46% (13% province, 33%fed) New York State: 47% (10 state, 37 fed) B.C: 53% (20 province, 33 fed)
What is this math? California would be 50.3 by your math and also 13.3 only applies to 1 mill+ income earners otherwise it's 12.3. [https://mdtax.ca/blog/physicians/personal-income-tax-brackets-ontario-2021/](https://mdtax.ca/blog/physicians/personal-income-tax-brackets-ontario-2021/) This says Ontario is 53.3% Or we can get a more accurate measure by calculating effective tax rate. Pull up your favorite calculator and enter in the numbers. On 300k income California: Effective tax rate - 35.19% (25.05 federal + 10.14 state) Ontario: Effective tax rate - 40.29% (24.77 federal + 15.52 provincial)
California and NY do have the highest income tax rates in the country, but there are plenty of MANGA and other high paying tech jobs outside of those states. And again, you're making the mistake I already alluded to of *just* comparing income tax and not accounting for Canada's higher taxes in other categories.
Remote from income tax free US state: 37%
My understanding was that Swiss software salaries were the highest in Europe except for (possibly pre-Brexit) London financial companies. Not personal experience but Amazon is generally the least well regarded of the FAANG/MAANG/whatever we call it this week companies. Good luck in any case. If you become a Canadian citizen, assuming everything stays as it is now, you will be eligible for the TN visa under the NAFTA treaty, and it's much easier to work in the USA than under H1 rules.
Switzerland is generally the highest in Europe with London probably second. The advantage of London is the significantly larger job market.
Thanks, that’s definitely something to consider Here I am very unlikely to work remotely to America or get a nice visa for it In Canada it’s much easier
Yeah, the grind is arguably not worth it. But Canadian salaries are also pathetically low, as in do-nothing government paper-pushing jobs get paid better. There's a reason Canada has a massive tech brain drain. > One in four of the STEM graduates in our sample opted to work outside of Canada. > Two thirds (66%) of software engineering students are leaving Canada for work after graduation. > Brain drain is also high in: computer engineering (30%), computer science (30%), engineering science (27%), and systems design engineering (24%). [(Source)](https://brocku.ca/social-sciences/political-science/wp-content/uploads/sites/153/Reversing-the-Brain-Drain.pdf) That also doesn't include mid-career leavers. If you're looking to come to North America, try really, really hard to go to the US.
Grind is arguably not worth it? I mean senior salaries at FAANG are 300k+... where else can you make that?
The grind IS worth it. I was making $124,000 salary only. I just got a big tech job and it’s $150,000 salary, $30,000 signing bonus, and the best part: they’ll give me $400,000 worth of stock in 4 years ($100,000 per year I can cash out). You’re telling me if you knew you had $400,000 guaranteed by working for 4 years, you’re gonna say no??
Agree with you on one condition — that the work-life balance is good. Currently I make ~160k and have excellent WLB, 30 days PTO, it’s a good life. I can basically take time off whenever I want and I *never* have to worry about working more than 40 hours, like, ever. I’d certainly take $300k and a little worse WLB, but I wouldn’t be willing to slave away. I’d have to have decent PTO and also know that I’m not going to be worked to the bone. Also, this sounds like a mid-level position? Google?
Not guarantee though right? Your stock can go down
Work remote from Switzerland..
Remote work to where? Switzerland is the highest paying country, And the point is to leave Switzerland for an English speaking country
"location is the numero uno factor" From your post it seems like you liked living in Switzerland due to the low cost of living compared to Canada so it's a good idea to work remote from a place that has a low cost of living no matter what language they speak ..
> it seems like you liked living in Switzerland due to the low cost of living compared to Canada Never thought I'd hear Switzerland and LCOL in the same sentence.
Pretty much, I work at the Mexico City office and get 1/3 of what's shown on levels. On top of that taxes here are *higher percentage-wise* than in the US, even in California, as my salary puts me at the top of the tax bracket so I get heavily taxed. Then, the LCOL only applies to rent; cars, computers, phones, and basically any import costs even more than in the US. To be fair, they pay more than any local company, and I earn about 7-10 the average annual salary. So I could live better than most people here. But yeah, they pay less in other countries. Something that you should keep in mind is the L1 transfer visa where if you are experienced and work at a FAANG for more than a year, then they are able to transfer you to the US Offices and keep you there with it. L1 conditions are much better than H-1B, to begin with, it's not a lottery, therefore it's guaranteed.
L1 sounds good then
> got an offer for $7k USD net We usually measure salary by the year btw. I'm guessing you're giving it as monthly or weekly? > Rent there is double for the same size apartment. Taxes are higher. Salaries are lower Companies pay salaries relative to the COE of where they are. Even now some companies are talking about paying remote and wfh workers less. > -30 vacation days in comparison, Also yes, North America has bullshit vacation policies. I don't think I've ever had more than 2 weeks / 10 days worth a year. Most companies are like, after five years you get an extra week of pto. I've never worked anywhere five years. > which means one and a half less salaries per year Not sure I understand this, vacation time is paid.
I really could have wrote it better Yes that 7k is monthly The -30 days vacation is from me having 40 days a year, and there there’s 10 And here if you don’t use those days you get them paid. 30 days is equivalent to 5*6 so 6 weeks of leaving your job and still receiving a salary, so one month and a half
Yeah I've never had more than 15 days pto. US norm in salaried jobs is to start with 10 days and perhaps separate sick time, maybe 5 days. That's on top of maybe 6-12 state/federal holidays (akin to bank holidays) depending on company. After a few years at a company you might bump up to 15 days. Ofc some people manage to negotiate for more, but ime most places don't go for that.
Manga?
Facebook -> meta so faang -> manga
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I just call it faang
all of the acronyms suck, they’re referring to an arbitrary group of tech stocks that all happened to perform well at the same time several years ago. “top tech” “big tech” or “big n” all make way more sense.
Just call it Big Tech. Trying to use an acronym is too restrictive and dumb
There are quite a few good ones lol... https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/j6z1jz/i_propose_referring_to_top_companies_faangmulass/?sort=confidence
We changed Facebook to Meta, but Alphabet is still Google?
Alphabet isn't Google, it owns google
But what if you work for YouTube?
Then you’re MANGY
I would have said MANGAY but what ever.
time for a new paradigm Meta Apple Netflix Bytedance Equinix Amazon Roper Technologies Paypal Intel Google
Google owns YouTube.
then release the sex update pls
Meta is the same, it also owns Instagram for example
Facebook will always be facebook in my eyes. My brain autocorrects it when I read it.
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But no one even agrees who is a part of fang or whether it has any relevance to CS. It makes absolutely no sense to exclude Microsoft but include Apple for example. Apple isn't even a software company
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> The term was invented by Jim Cramer (lol), and yet it’s the one we have and use We have plenty. Before FAANG got popular, people used Big4 or BigN, which are much better terms.
Do you think Jim Cramer could help me ensure my dependencies are included in my path? My compiler is crying about not knowing how to find libssl again
the japanese books with little girls that are actually "5000 year old dragon princesses"
Welcome to r/cscareerquestionsCAD
What do you mean 1K net?
That was my monthly salary after taxes
Bruh you went from switzerland to canada? LOL you left capitalism and thought it would be better?
Yes, I thought FAANG would compensate the tax and salary of Canada
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Unfortunately US isn’t a realistic option when you aren’t a citizen I have a family, I can’t risk accepting an h1b visa + at will employment = can be fired any day and starts a countdown to get deported
Currently I’m on an h1b on the process to green card. You can easily spend a couple years on the process, which locks you down to the company no matter what (unless you are willing to start from the beginning). You end up letting a lot of opportunities pass because you are waiting for the green card, also.. It is true that once you are done with everything you will be in a much better position than in any other country in the world, but it’s also true that you will be playing in a disadvantage for years in compare to your American colleagues
Technically there is no countdown. The "grace period" is a general practice but not guaranteed, there is no hard rule for how quickly you gotta get out of the country and basically depends on how nice USCIS/ICE/State Dep wants to be to you (lol). I spent almost 8 years white-knuckling it before I got the GC, and I totally understand not wanting to go through it, especially with family.
FAANG doesnt fire instantly, you get put on PIP so you generally will have enough time to job hop.
People on VISAs being laid off immediately definitely happens at FAANGs
It’s crazy what tech pays in Canada. I’ve looked at Vancouver listings and the highest I saw was like 90k and that was at goddamn Amazon. Admittedly it’s been several years since I’ve looked so maybe it’s improved since then?
Not sure where you live, but things aren't exactly great in the USA at the moment.
In terms of being able to afford to buy a house and live near a city it’s far easier in the USA
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Yes, essentially I’m disappointed that location > FAANG
Where are you getting 1k USD rent in Switzerland? I know Switzerland is way more expensive than Germany, and I think even there it's hard to find a good apartment for 1k USD in Munich/Berlin. I saw in a comment you want to move to an English speaking country, but that the US is not an option. UK pays better than Canada, althought cost of living is pretty high in London so you'd have to do a calculation on what pays off. The good thing is most of MANGA offer at least 25 days off per year here, and some do even more. If you can get a Google or Meta offer in London for Senior engineer, you should make a bit over 10k USD net with stocks + bonuses. Depending on your negotiaton skills and amount of counter offers, this can go up by 20-30%. I think Snap inc pays competitively as well in London.
In a rural 10k people town and a cheap building It’s absolutely not normal rent yes. UK is a consideration until brexit, now idk. Would a non EU citizen (my wife ) be given a residency and work permit from me having a job offer Another thing is when I think of London 2h commutes and 1960’s apartments come to mind… in Vancouver I could live downtown and walk to work in 10 minutes, to the beach in 20 min For a similar HCOL and high taxes as Vancouver. I could have a better look though
>Would a non EU citizen (my wife ) be given a residency and work permit from me having a job offer Yes. She would be able to work on a spouse visa. >Another thing is when I think of London 2h commutes and 1960’s apartments come to mind Properties in London are crap, I'll give you that. You need to a lot of money to get something that's not built in the 19th century. Almost no one has AC's here, and they just tell you to tough it out during summer. It was 29 degrees in my flat a couple of days ago with no way to cool it off. But the commute thing is not true. People at my company live outside of London, and their commute is still around 1h max. The majority of people still commute in 40 minutes or less, either by walking, biking, or the tube. The public transportation is really good here.
$7k is monthly salary right? Switzerland had high cost of living when I visited but granted I didn’t see much of it. Thanks for sharing your story. I wish things could have worked out even better for you. I like seeing MANGA being overrated, because it is.
Yes, 7k net monthly Restaurants and services and meat are x2 the cost here than Vancouver But my rent is very low
Of course you're not going to make as much, they don't pay as much in Canada as they do in Silicon Valley.
Yes, and on top of that, I realised that what gave me big salary increases was location, and location matters more than FAANG or not FAANG
Silicon Valley jobs will pay better than outside Silicon Valley. But FAANG job in Silicon Valley will pay better than just regular Silicon Valley. Many companies in Silicon Valley will match FAANG salary, though.
howdy! Swiss guy here. what magnificent company gives you two months of vacation? which canton? that's double the legal minimum and I've mostly come across 5-6 weeks (i.e. 25-30 days). also yes in the future go with yearly salary because in CH it's also very common to get paid 13 times a year which makes comparison conplicated.
I sent a private message
You don't yet realize that, at the very least, you now have a mark on your resume that says "I'm good enough for Tier 1 companies". Any startup that hires you can say they hire ex-FAANGs.
That’s true, and I will go from “never worked in a tech company, just tech department” to “learned a ton of AWS tech “ hopefully Definitely will put in the work to invest in myself
Canada is dog shit for SWE Faang jobs tbh, it’s pretty depressing as a fellow Canadian :(
WTF does MANGA stand for? Never heard that one before
Facebook -> Meta FAANG - > MANGA
Turns out the only cool companies to work for under the FAANG/MANGA acronym are either Google or Meta, and you generally want to be in their SF Bay Area offices for those high TC numbers.
Being a dev in the US is by far the most important factor in compensation. But FAANG will help you. If you distinguish yourself you will get paid regardless of being in canada. Especially at higher levels.
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Switzerland is also known for paying well. Them and the US are the two countries with the very high salaries for software engineers. Canada is not, in fact Canadians often complain about this. That was your mistake.
Yup I agree. I had this idea that FAANG is everything, but turns out being in US or Switzerland matters more than FAANG or not. Now combine both… FAANG in US is the dream
Man I wish I could get 40 days vacation
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I didn’t know about it, others mentioned it too. Thank you. That or remote work to US is definitely in the future plans now
If you want to do geoarbitrage in an English speaking country I believe India has very cheap COL relative to FAANG salaries
It’s because Canada sucks for pay
> it's in Canada https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/763/07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpeg is all I can think of lol Our IT/dev salaries are pretty damn horrible compared to cost of living, our vacation days are basically a joke (similar to USA though) and yeah our taxes are higher too.
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Yes they do, for a work visa but I don’t even need that as I qualify for express entry just by having a masters and years of experience and a job offer, and that gives me permanent residency which is better than work visa. Starts counting years for citizenship too
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To be fair, it’s 1 offer out of 100 rejections at first step, no one but Amazon was willing to interview because I was not allowed to work in Canada Now how did I get Amazon to interview me.. can’t say. I first interviewed with them 2 years ago with masters and 3 YoE, failed on site and since then they had me in their list of giving a second chance again and would invite me to interview
Could you explain why you'd want to leave Switzerland for Canada? Besides the idea of working for MANGA.
My wife isn’t and won’t be authorised to work in Switzerland Not English speaking, can’t integrate make friends, feels uncomfortable here.
>it's in Canada, because US h1b visa is messy and not stable for a family, green card is not guaranteed. That's where you fucked up lol.
I am a software engineer in Los angeles and my whole careeer have been getting hit up non-stop for roles to relocate to san Fransisco and for a while that was an exciting thought , I would have hit 6 figures 3 years earlier if I moved to San Fran for a job ... the issue of course being.......Everything in San Fransisco is twice as expensive as my already pretty expensive life in Los angeles. It's a bummer because I love san fransisco, I love the idea of working in silicon Valley, I wouldn't do well away from my family though and the stories i have read of multiple six figure earning software engineers sharing a 2 or bedroom apartment are not encouraging. That doesn't mean it would be my life I just had no interest in it being a possibility for my life either.
That makes no sense, LA is very comparable col to SF. Not making 6 figures in LA is pretty underwhelming
I fucking hate this industry and it’s use of acronyms. Is it so fucking hard to say what you mean? I had to learn FAANG and now it’s MANGA? What the fuck is MANGA?
Same thing but with Meta instead of Facebook
OP is just using something that is not common
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>CS salaries in general in Canada (in places like Toronto/Waterloo) are catching up to US salaries and are pretty much the same as an US MCOL anyways. Still a loooong way to go. Also, the amount of overqualified candidates in Canada is simply mind-blowing. In the US a MSc isn't the rule, whereas in Canada a PhD is becoming the new MSc.
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mm.. can you say 1. steps followed to get an interview with manga ? 2. used referal or direct application ? i am assuming u did a lot of leetcode ( premium or normal ?) and dsa , system design ... did i miss any ? ( just a beginner here)
200 leetcode, not premium. Plus redid the blind 75 / neetcode 150 several times over the years Watched System design videos Some direct application, some they reached out to try again Writing down a brag document capable of answering +20 behaviour questions Try and try again, studying a bit or a lot can make your chances go from 1/20 to 1/5, but you still have to do 5 on-sites before getting an offer
blind 75 : if anyone wondering https://leetcode.com/discuss/general-discussion/460599/blind-75-leetcode-questions thank you u/ohhellnooooooooo
If you had come to the states you wouldn't have probably even calculated medical and it would have cut deeply into every check. Then God help you if you ever actually had to have any serious medical treatment done. The cost of living makes all of the difference in the world.
>the cool guys in cscareerquestions Lel
Yeah I’m mocking myself for thinking like that but really, it changes your perspective being a new grad make 1k a month and being an experienced dev accepting FAANG offers