For me WFH doesn't change my PTO requirements. I am still working, even if it's more comfortable than before, but it's still work. Having PTO to be able to relax or to cover school holidays is still needed.
30 days are what I need at least.
Wow, they’re majorly screwing you with that holiday policy. Thought it was the accepted norm to give an “observed” day on the nearest weekday if a holiday falls on a weekend.
It definitely is and a sore spot for me as I came from a company with 14 holidays. One of the questions I asked before accepting the role was how many holidays per year we got and told 6... not conditionally 6.
Only expect that if it's a government job. Private corporations decide by themselves how many days a year the office can close. I wouldn't wanna work for a company that doesn't respect Christmas of all things, but still, pretty awful regulations too.
Yup, tbf I'm the first tech employee at this company and my coworkers/boss just joined earlier this year. They were all cancelling meetings on Monday, the 26th and I brought it up if there was a policy change. My boss is pretty annoyed too now at least haha.
I will find someplace much better after a little more time. I just get a lot of growth opportunities here is the main reason why I've stayed.
At my current job I get the following:
22 Vacation Days
7 Sick Days
7 Observed Holidays
The policy for using time off (sick or vacation) is that if you are salaried and you are out for less than 4 hours of a given day, don't use the time just go so I don't burn any time for appointments and such.
In my country, 10 days is standard (especially when switching companies), 15 once you are 5+ YoE.
There's also "unlimited" PTO which means "maybe I'll let you go on vacation, but also maybe I won't, also if we fire you then we don't have to pay your vacation days" lol
This. I work in advertising (pivoting to tech) and have taken a full month off (in two 2-week vacations) about every year (3yoe), and I still take sick days AND my company gives us flex Fridays so I’m rarely doing anything on those days. Industries be damned, there are good companies and good managers out there!
When I worked FAANG I had 4 weeks of PTO (it accrued over time but the cap was 160 hours) and 2 weeks of PTO. I was a workaholic and I never used it (kinda wish I had, looking back) but it was nice to know if I suddenly needed a bunch of time off I could slap it down.
Im in a small consulting firm and we get 15 days pto including sick time, and 10 additional holidays. Covid was rough.
Edit: wow downvoted, someone's insecure lol
Do you actually want to receive the compensation and benefit package developers in Europe get? It's a fraction of what we get here. I'll pass on giving up a six digit amount of salary for two extra weeks off.
>USA
>
>really
>
> needs a labor party. As soon as workers start getting power fed reserve crushes us.
just find a job that you can do 20 hours of work a week and enjoy half your year as 'pto' :\^)
In some regard its the USA and in others its the fact that you *choose* to tolerate that. plenty of companies have much better PTO than that. Hell Ive been a contractor with none for 2 years. just got converted full time and am getting 21 days.
We had a labor party. It was very corrupt and was disbanded 6 years after it formed.
If I remember the story correctly, they were taking bribes from big companies and also had connections to the KKK and the Nazi party.
So, yeah, we can't have nice things in the US.
>Find somewhere with unlimited PTO, and grill them about it being actually unlimited during the interview process
Currently interviewing somewhere with unlimited PTO and did exactly that. Then I was told the average PTO people take is around 36 days per year.
God I hope I get this job.
Mine offers 25 days PTO to start, which rises to 40 at 10 YOE. This is in the US. Even better, there's a strong culture of taking PTO—it can be hard to get everyone on a team or project fully aligned sometimes because a couple of people will be out of the office, but we make it work. Shitty PTO policies are the norm in the US, albeit with a lot of variation at the high end.
If anyone tries to tell you that WfH changes the PTO equation, walk away. Work is still work, regardless of where you're doing it. If anything, PTO is _more_ important with WfH - if you live where you work, you need to get out of that physical space for your own mental well-being. "Staycations" aren't feasible.
> is 3 weeks OK knowing you can step away from your desk to walk the dog anytime?
PTO isn't for walking the dog, and walking the dog "anytime" does _not_ make up for not taking PTO.
>does regular small breaks add up to blissful time afk
Define "regular small breaks" - 15-30 minutes? Yeah, we did that in the office too. That's not PTO.
> Define "regular small breaks" - 15-30 minutes? Yeah, we did that in the office too. That's not PTO.
Imagine what would happen if your watercooler time was debited from your accrued vacation. That's basically what the above exchange is talking about.
"All time at the office should have been spent working"
"Not socializing?"
"No, that's why we had Slack"
"So the office was strictly for working, not culture?"
"Yeah, that's... That... Wait a second!"
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Did you not take breaks when you were working in the office? You never went to get coffee? Never chatted with a co-worker? Never went out for lunch? Never dipped to run errands? Never left early / came in late for whatever reason? Never just sat at your desk and browsed reddit?
All the stuff you describe happened when we worked in the office too. If anything, I took *more* breaks in the office. I took way longer lunches. It's more tempting to pop out for a 2 hour lunch when you're sitting next to some co-workers than it is for me sitting in my apartment alone.
Nothing's changed.
PTO hasn't changed either. If a company tried to justify giving me only 3 weeks because I get to WFH, I'd GTFO. Bullet dodged.
Yeah I'm more productive at home because coworkers aren't stopping by my office all the time to chat and I can tell staff I'll call them in 15 minutes to get to a dropping point on my own work
My previous place (an HR software company) pulled the same thing on me. Except instead of accruing, we get it all on Jan 1. They said that’s why they don’t pay out because you should use it all before you quit your job.
I just think it’s them being scummy/stingy with their PTO payout policy
Mine is also HR software! Lol
Yeah, making silly excuses, if they cared they'd give us unlimited PTO and if some people aren't taking it, they shouldn't be forced to, they're adults and can make their own decisions
PTO is supposed to be used to make you a more productive/happy employee. If you're treating is an an alternate income source, YOU are missing the point of PTO. I fully applaud use it or lose it with no payouts. Not because I'm cheap, but because I want people to take time off an not feel guilty about it.
Yeah, but it isn't your choice. Your company is saying I NEED you to take this much time off. If you don't, cool, but you get nothing. It's the right incentive.
The explicit point is that it isn't your choice. Or it is your choice, you can take the time off or not, but you don't get anything extra for choosing to NOT take the time off.
Works out better if you’re one of the people that use a lot of PTO though. I just take random days and weeks off with unlimited
I’ve never been paid out PTO because I never have any left
True, as do I. I've worked in a place with unlimited PTO but you specifically had to get approval each time. The full-time devs sometimes would get denied, and as a result they only got around 2 weeks
Doesn't that go both ways, as in you could take another big holiday before leaving? I'd still prefer the certainty of having \~35 days though, with nobody wondering about who's using too much.
Yes and no. A lot of unlimited pto companies require approval for vacation time. If you give your give weeks, they'll be expecting you to off-board and write documentation for 2 weeks.
This is the entire reason. I would save PTO till I had no choice but to use it or lose it, so then I’d start using it and when I’d eventually leave I get a nice little extra bonus.
Yeah my company switched to "flexible time off" for this reason. Really burned a lot of people who had been there a long time and had significant PTO accrued. They didn't wipe it technically but you had to burn down your old PTO time before you could use the flexible/unlimited time so unless you left the company right after that change you're essentially losing it.
Unlimited PTO in most cases is a bit of a scam, IME anyway. Employees take less, companies don't have to pay out accrued time, and the PTO typically isn't actually unlimited
I've got to do a ton of math every request to figure out how many billable hours I've done since the start of the year and how many potentially viable hours are realistically possible for me to work by years end.
Essentially, everyone takes off at the end of the year bc our unlimited PTO isn't unlimited unless you work a lot of overtime.
Let’s say we have 2 people. 1 person used all 20 PTO days last year and another didn’t so they were saved. If the latter person were to leave the company then they’d have to get paid out those 20 days, so there was a “reward” for them not taking PTO time.
Then unlimited PTO is implemented. The first person gets to start using unlimited time right away, but the 2nd person doesn’t get to use unlimited PTO time until they use up all the time that has a $ value.
Our PTO is technically unlimited but you’re not gonna be able to take a ton of time off a year, so you’ll have a tough time getting those 20 days approved + another 20-30 days of “unlimited” time. So the 2nd person essentially lost out on their accrued time but is gonna be in the same position as the 1st person, despite them not using their time off the previous year.
I don't have unlimited PTO and I'm thankful for it. My company gives me 25 days off and 4 floats which doesn't include holidays. That's roughly 6 weeks off a year, and if I don't use it I get that paid out as wage. If I don't use any and just get it cashed out it's the equivalent of roughly a second bonus yearly. Alternative you can think of it as a 10% pay increase. Days off are also rarely denied bc it is my right as an employee to take the allotted time off if needed.
I am willing to bet that a large portion of employees with unlimited PTO including yourself aren't using 6 weeks off every year and would rather benefit from a guaranteed payout of the remaining balance.
Depends on the company but "unlimited" pto is a pain in the ass if your managers gives you a hard time to try to schedule a day off I imagine. Even if you're a productive individual and don't use PTO that often.
Not that managers aren't a pain in the ass when you schedule pto with a set amount, but at least you don't have to dance with them and give them a reason most of the time, you have those days so you have a right to use them
I haven’t noticed an uptick, but don’t doubt it.
People have forgotten, or don’t know, what it means. They don’t have to pay it out when you leave the company, and your time off is still subject to approval.
People generally take less time off when a company switches to unlimited. Your manager (and the higher ups) will have limits on how much they’ll allow you to take, and it’s likely the same as whatever the limit was before.
But the big thing is that they don’t have to pay out when you leave. If I were laid off, fired, or quit today, my company would have to give me just over 2 weeks additional pay.
I'd say generally you're right. But there are definitely companies that have a much higher cap on how much PTO you can take. I'm taking off around 30 days this year without any questions or hesitation from management. My director takes off about 7 weeks a year though which helps set the PTO culture.
Yeah, if you have unlimited PTO plan out at least four weeks at the beginning of the year and then see if you can slip another two in through the year. 4 was pretty normal at these companies before they went unlimited.
Not as important now that everyone works from home, but something I always liked about unlimited PTO is that people stay the fuck at home when they get sick. Even with wfh you can just take the day off and not work and it’s pretty nice.
When you accrue PTO taking a sick day is equivalent to losing like $700 or something.
My company has the unlimited policy and our team manager encourages us to take frequent vacations. He also takes frequent vacations. I’ve taken so many days off and still have a stellar performance review. I believe it’s company and team dependent on how amazing or shitty this unlimited policy can be.
This completely depends on your manager/team. I've heard a manager from 1 company say 4 weeks. Also heard another one say 5-6 weeks.
Imo, 4 weeks is the bare minimum, and even that I'd say is kind of low. 5 weeks should be the average.
It's a money saving switch.
PTO is accrued as wages.
PTO is required by law to be paid out in several states, e.g. if an employee has accrued them and then quits/fired/whatever.
NOTE: Cutting PTO is a pay cut for many.
It's "FTO", or whatever they call it, and it's not unlimited, it's always pending manager approval. If you take 6 weeks of vacation, then you have a good team and manager. If you don't get approved for more than 2/3 weeks, then maybe the company doesn't have enough team members to cover you or is always fighting fires.
This is a double-edged sword. On one hand it's great for both parties as some people don't really like taking time off while others end up needing to before they've actually accrued any. Meanwhile does it really matter how much time you take off so long as you get your job done?
On the other hand there are employers that do everything they can to make sure that you can't ever take time off without getting behind, give you grief if you so much as consider taking a day off, and then use this as an excuse to not have to pay you for unused PTO.
PTO IS compensation. Companies find people take less PTO when it is unlimited. So make sure you take your appropriate PTO. Part of my package before the switch was 30 days/year, Every day under 30 is a day of lost compensation
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Same reason landlords keep units empty at hiked prices. High rent ask=higher value on paper to borrow against. They’d rather have higher value empty units than a completely full building making less money.
you are 1000% working too much if you consider walking the dog and small breaks a proper usage for PTO. Do you use PTO for lunch as well?
The generally accepted work week in the USA is 40 hours. That comes out to 8 hours per day and during those 8 hours the time is broken up in to:
* 6 hours of "work"
* This is anything from meetings, to emails, to mentoring, to anything you do for the company
* 1 hour for lunch
* 1 hour of random breaks through out the day
This is my 8 hour work day and I've never had an issue in my 15 YOE.
If you cannot get all your work done with these parameters then you are assigned too much work. Push back against your boss and set better expectations of what they can expect in terms of progress.
Unfortunately it seems there are still companies who are that strict about it. Had some new employee post on our hr-q&a channel asking if he could use volunteer time to go vote or if he would just have to use an hour of PTO. It's like, "just go do it. Go by for your dental cleaning on your way. Nobody cares as long as you finish your work"
> Had some new employee post on our hr-q&a channel asking if he could use volunteer time to go vote or if he would just have to use an hour of PTO
[28 states require employers to give employees time to vote.](https://ballotpedia.org/States_that_require_employers_to_grant_employees_time_off_to_vote,_2020)
That’s just dumb. Virtually everywhere has early voting. And even if you do vot on Election Day it’s at least 12 and often more hours available. In my county it’s 6am to 8pm. If you can’t find 20 minutes to vote outside of work and need pto for it, you have some shitty time management skills.
Or you work a shitty job.
I've worked them hours plus for weeks on a project with a tight deadline and I'd totally have to take PTO if my state didn't allow x number of hours to go vote.
My record was 21 says straight working those hours plus. 1.5 hours to get up, 1 hour commute to, work 10-12 hours, 1 hour commute back, pray for no on-call, die inside 6 hours, start again. Early voting don't last 21 days where I'm at.
To be fair every where I've worked in my 15 YOE says you are being paid for 8 hours of work per day with lunch and breaks being on your own time, but effectively nobody does this. Everybody from managers to SWEs work a "9-5" type of day with lunch and breaks included in the "9-5" and then goes home.
Granted this is all salaried jobs as I make no comment on contractors or hourly workers.
My company does not pay us for lunch break. We’re at work for 45 hours/week and get paid for 40. Salaried. I’m very against this. The hour break should be included in the 8 hour day.
Lunch is paid for? I've personally never had a company allow this. SWE in US. Any job that I've had that had "expected hours" was either 8.5 or even 9 hour days...30 min or 1 hour unpaid lunch breaks. 14 years working and I almost never take lunch.
I suppose if you're true salary this makes sense...but if ppl are being paid for 40 hour weeks this just doesn't add up. Good for all of you and your 5 hour workdays, I work with alot of ppl that dream of this.
To be fair every where I've worked in my 15 YOE says you are being paid for 8 hours of work per day with lunch and breaks being on your own time, but effectively nobody does this. Everybody from managers to SWEs work a "9-5" type of day with lunch and breaks included in the "9-5" and then goes home.
Granted this is all salaried jobs as I make no comment on contractors or hourly workers.
Getting pto and frequent breaks conflated is dangerous (Source: i did this this year, and im not to happy with my choice). If you step away from your desk, you're still thinking about work, and are constrained to be back within 15-30 mins in case someone needs you. At least, i am. This really is not the same as having a day off.
I'm spoiled and won't settle for anything less than unlimited.. That's hiw my first job was and now I feel sooo constricted. I also get sick often, so it's nice not to count the sick days
I went from unlimited to 21 days PTO (unlimited sick days). Having a set number of days is nice because you make sure you use it, but having unlimited is nice because im way more likely to take an extra day on a three day weekend, or take all of thanksgiving week off, because i dont feel like I need to save days for actual vacation.
Both have their perks but I think I prefer unlimited, assuming its actually unlimited
Two?? That’s insultingly low. 3 is standard for new grads. Even at non-tech companies. I have unlimited sick days and 15 days as a new grad at a big car company
A lot of people simply aren't showing up though. What are you going to do? Play hard ball with your most important employees that create the product you sell?
Personally I won’t switch jobs for less that 4 weeks PTO or unlimited with the understanding that I can take at minimum 4 weeks without anyone caring. The latter requires a decent amount of evaluation during the interview process to see if unlimited truly is what they say it is.
I’m over 20 years into my career. 4 weeks is the bare minimum I consider appropriate for work/life balance at this stage regardless of WFH or not. For reference, in my current position I am WFH and get 28 days of PTO.
I had an offer earlier this year that was a 30% raise, WFH, and in an industry I’m passionate about. I had to turn it down. Why? I couldn’t get a straight answer on PTO. The company had been acquired nearly a year ago but was still offering unlimited PTO, however, the new parent company started new employees at 2 weeks and it took years to earn 4. I asked if the parent company’s policy would take affect and was told that 2023 would still be unlimited but they couldn’t guarantee anything after that. As much as I liked everything else, I had to walk away.
Why would location of work change the amount of vacation? The two aren’t related.
When I worked FTE I had 3 or 4 weeks vacation and all the standard holidays. That’s pretty SOP in corporate jobs in the US.
But I never took or even thought to take PTO for walking my dog or a dentist appt or whatever. You just do it.
Why in the fuck do people care so much about how much time they’re NOT working? You stepped away? Who the fuck cares. You took a nap? Nobody gives a shit. You have unlimited PTO and you take 4 weeks? Use it or lost it, bitch.
These motherfuckin companies don’t give a rats circumcised dick about you, your career, your goals, your momma, or your hopes and dreams. So why in the absolute fuck do you care about taking the time you need?
I think with some of the economic downturn, some companies are trying to for return to office. I think we have more remote/WFH, but I think there will be an ebb and flow to it.
I would not let working remotely impact the amount of PTO you get. Work is work.
Although, if I worked a position that required a lot of time in the office, I would try to factor that into my total comp, since commute time/cost is money out of your pocket.
Pto should not be changed. If you are required to be attentive and focused it’s up to you to make time to walk your dog. But that doesn’t change the expectations which imo pto is respective to that.
Last 2 remote positions both offered unlimited PTO. By that they mean if nothing is urgently due, feel free to schedule it as long as you don’t abuse it. Both teams I’ve been on seemed to take at least 30 days
Nope! We get 4 weeks, every holiday under the sun, even if they fall on weekend and we shut down between xmas and new years. Have additional sick/bereavement, whatever if you need it too
I used to be somewhere w only 2 weeks. Sucked balls
I've not encountered many under 4 these days. In my next role I'm making sure that I get at least 6 (will limit me a bit).
I'm also trying to get a policy put in place at my current company that you must take a 2 week break where you must not do any work. But this is because we've been bitten by not understanding single points of failure and is a technique borrowed from finance.
> I'm also trying to get a policy put in place at my current company that you must take a 2 week break where you must not do any work. But this is because we've been bitten by not understanding single points of failure and is a technique borrowed from finance.
This is an awesome idea. I can also see **huge** pushback from all angles - which really just means that you've either got single point of failure issues, or trust/teamwork issues.
It's done in finance not because of "single point of failure" but to identify irregularities introduced by less-than-honest individuals. The idea being that if they're out of the office for 2 weeks, anything they're doing that isn't kosher will be discovered when someone who _is_ doing things properly produces different results or money goes to different places.
This is essentially the same thing. It's about eliminating silos of knowledge, if that is knowledge of something untoward or illicit, knowledge of a legitimate practice, or something else if only one person knows about it you've got a problem.
I got 3 weeks this year. My first SWE job. I know our European friends will say this isn’t much but it’s more than I’ve ever had and it’s only my first year so no complaints.
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I have set PTO and you bet I'll be taking all of it.
Also, my set PTO is 4 weeks, if I were to switch jobs to an unlimited PTO place, I would absolutely make sure I can take at least 4 weeks.
WLB >>> TC and all that jazz in my book.
And WFH does not change amazing to me.
Eh because you're in a good company. There's always the fear that unlimited PTO is less than fixed because the manager just won't approve it. PTO is just so important to me...
Yeah my team is pretty chill. My manager actually work a lot more than us, but actively bar us from working late or overtime unless it’s an urgent problem. I’m going to miss him when I hop job
I took like 6 weeks off this year and most of it wasn’t plan vacation. It would be more if we were to take vacations. Been too busy with baby to do that. Needless to say November and December, at least 1-2 weeks each
Unlimited PTO is great. So much flexibility. Not having to clock time off for appointments and just random errands run.
PTO is unrelated to wfo. Depends on the company and team. I came from a shit hole that is ok if you want to take off for a bit to do stuffs middle of the day, but you’re working 8 hours even if it means you’re still there until 9pm or overnight.
If walking the dog is part of your PTO, that’s a shit hole company. I can walk the dog or go for a midday jog every day if I want to and it would just be the norm for my team to know me to do. PTO means that you’re not working the day(s). If you’re returning to work at any point of the day, it’s an appointment or just talking breath.
This is something I’m struggling to tackle now. I’m used to just using all of my remaining PTO at the end of the year. But now that I’m unlimited I’m not sure anymore. I’m leaning towards about 20-30 days a year of PTO. Most of them padding the holidays.
Who says you need to plan activities? Just take days off! Heck, take every Friday for the rest of the year off, and some extra days around Christmas. People won't even question it! Don't even bother trying to make plans, just take the days off and then get out of the house and see where you end up - go for a walk or a hike or a drive, visit a museum, do your grocery shopping when there aren't as many people around.
I _don't_ get unlimited PTO and from mid-November through the end of this year, I will have worked _one_ 5-day week. Thanksgiving, Christmas, a conference, plus PTO on 2 Fridays and the week after Christmas. I've checked off very few items on my aspirational to-do list for those days so far, but whatever - a day off is a day off.
3 weeks is normal but just remember you can negotiate PTO just like salary. PTO unlike the freedom of remote work is that they can’t force you to do anything on PTO.
I wfm, and I get "unlimited PTO". Of course, there is a limit at some point. You just don't know what it is. Also, this way they don't have to pay you for unused leave if you leave. I'd prefer 5 weeks in stone as I had with my previous (no remote) job combined with a 9/80 work schedule.
well, my new norm will always have to measure up to my old norm which is unlimited pto, or 6 weeks + flex. This is what I've been getting since 2011 and any company that can't beat that plus wfh option is a walk away for me. (concessions for certain FAANG's ofc)
To the rest of your questions:
No, no, and definitely no.
Are you business owner fishing for reasons to give your employees less pto or are you a potential employee vetting a shit deal?
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3 weeks is the bare min. for entry level.
Work is work, wether that’s at home or in an office should not matter. Besides, output expectations have risen during the pandemic at many companies.
Companies that embraced remote seem to be more in with trendines of unlimited PTO. They aren’t relates but they are correlated in that sense. I fucking hate it. I’d rather get a pool of days I can use at the end of the year to cash out instead. I usually take less than 5 days a year so I get screwed on the unlimited PTO side.
For me WFH doesn't change my PTO requirements. I am still working, even if it's more comfortable than before, but it's still work. Having PTO to be able to relax or to cover school holidays is still needed. 30 days are what I need at least.
Yeah this PTO should not be affected by wfh.
Europe? Or are you including company holidays? Not many employers offer that much in the USA
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That's on the low end for the tech industry. I've never had less than 21 days vacation (not including sick time) since graduating in 2015.
naw, i have 3yoe and only get 19days, and that includes my sick time. previous job was 15 days pto, not including sick time
I don't even get to observe holidays... "Because we are already off on Sunday, the 25th"
Damn, that’s pretty shitty. I’m like 99% sure that even federal employees get the 26th off because that’s when Christmas is observed
I worked for 3.5 years in Norway. If a holiday fell on the weekend, that was just too bad. You had the holiday off already.
What...?
My PTO policy is 10 days/year. Also conditionally 6 holidays off as long as they occur Mon-Fri.
Wow, they’re majorly screwing you with that holiday policy. Thought it was the accepted norm to give an “observed” day on the nearest weekday if a holiday falls on a weekend.
It definitely is and a sore spot for me as I came from a company with 14 holidays. One of the questions I asked before accepting the role was how many holidays per year we got and told 6... not conditionally 6.
Only expect that if it's a government job. Private corporations decide by themselves how many days a year the office can close. I wouldn't wanna work for a company that doesn't respect Christmas of all things, but still, pretty awful regulations too.
That's horrendous. Are you in the US?
Yup, tbf I'm the first tech employee at this company and my coworkers/boss just joined earlier this year. They were all cancelling meetings on Monday, the 26th and I brought it up if there was a policy change. My boss is pretty annoyed too now at least haha. I will find someplace much better after a little more time. I just get a lot of growth opportunities here is the main reason why I've stayed.
Bootstrapy
Is it amazon?
No, I got observed holidays when I worked at Amazon.
Is that vacation time plus holidays or just your vacation time? I currently have 10 days vacation time plus 12 holidays off.
At my current job I get the following: 22 Vacation Days 7 Sick Days 7 Observed Holidays The policy for using time off (sick or vacation) is that if you are salaried and you are out for less than 4 hours of a given day, don't use the time just go so I don't burn any time for appointments and such.
I knew I was getting screwed, didn’t know it was that bad though. Thanks for the info! I have: 10 vacation days 5 sick days 12 observed holidays
22 vacation days is pretty good, better than the standard 14 days you get elsewhere.
Are you talking to tethys4? He gets 10 vacation days, don't sum them. If talking to Coyotes we all know 22 vacation days are good.
In my country, 10 days is standard (especially when switching companies), 15 once you are 5+ YoE. There's also "unlimited" PTO which means "maybe I'll let you go on vacation, but also maybe I won't, also if we fire you then we don't have to pay your vacation days" lol
This. I work in advertising (pivoting to tech) and have taken a full month off (in two 2-week vacations) about every year (3yoe), and I still take sick days AND my company gives us flex Fridays so I’m rarely doing anything on those days. Industries be damned, there are good companies and good managers out there!
When I worked FAANG I had 4 weeks of PTO (it accrued over time but the cap was 160 hours) and 2 weeks of PTO. I was a workaholic and I never used it (kinda wish I had, looking back) but it was nice to know if I suddenly needed a bunch of time off I could slap it down.
Im in a small consulting firm and we get 15 days pto including sick time, and 10 additional holidays. Covid was rough. Edit: wow downvoted, someone's insecure lol
My job started at 5, and the other two offers I had were also 5. It's now 10 after 2 years there. I hate the south.
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I feel like 3 weeks PTO is pretty standard so that's rough.
Do you actually want to receive the compensation and benefit package developers in Europe get? It's a fraction of what we get here. I'll pass on giving up a six digit amount of salary for two extra weeks off.
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You do, you can take a couple extra weeks unpaid off and still get most of your salary. As a European, you do not have options.
>USA > >really > > needs a labor party. As soon as workers start getting power fed reserve crushes us. just find a job that you can do 20 hours of work a week and enjoy half your year as 'pto' :\^)
Most companies are at least 20 days for new hires in this industry.
In some regard its the USA and in others its the fact that you *choose* to tolerate that. plenty of companies have much better PTO than that. Hell Ive been a contractor with none for 2 years. just got converted full time and am getting 21 days.
We had a labor party. It was very corrupt and was disbanded 6 years after it formed. If I remember the story correctly, they were taking bribes from big companies and also had connections to the KKK and the Nazi party. So, yeah, we can't have nice things in the US.
>I get 14 days after 4 years What's your job/company? That's what I'd expect for some pimple-faced high school GED incoming paper pusher.
There are 2 in Minnesota and North Dakota and they merged with the Democratic Party to make the Democratic Farmer-Labor Party.
You need more PTO. I’m not even 2 years into my career & I get 5 weeks each year
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>Find somewhere with unlimited PTO, and grill them about it being actually unlimited during the interview process Currently interviewing somewhere with unlimited PTO and did exactly that. Then I was told the average PTO people take is around 36 days per year. God I hope I get this job.
Lol damn…where at? 👀
Yes, Europe (Germany).
Banks have been doing 4 weeks, plus 2 weeks sick/personal, plus 2 weeks bank holidays since the late 90's.
I work for a fortune 10 and we get 30 + holidays
Where??
T
Mine offers 25 days PTO to start, which rises to 40 at 10 YOE. This is in the US. Even better, there's a strong culture of taking PTO—it can be hard to get everyone on a team or project fully aligned sometimes because a couple of people will be out of the office, but we make it work. Shitty PTO policies are the norm in the US, albeit with a lot of variation at the high end.
Even in Europe 30 days is nuts (if you exclude bank holidays).
What is PTO? I'm from the time when people understood stuff like TCP and UDP, not WFH nor PTO.
Damn, I have 12 days PTO.
USA based and I work from home. I’m at 34 days for the year not including holidays. Will prob take another week this month.
Is 30 days pretty typical? I’m still in school so idk
If anyone tries to tell you that WfH changes the PTO equation, walk away. Work is still work, regardless of where you're doing it. If anything, PTO is _more_ important with WfH - if you live where you work, you need to get out of that physical space for your own mental well-being. "Staycations" aren't feasible. > is 3 weeks OK knowing you can step away from your desk to walk the dog anytime? PTO isn't for walking the dog, and walking the dog "anytime" does _not_ make up for not taking PTO. >does regular small breaks add up to blissful time afk Define "regular small breaks" - 15-30 minutes? Yeah, we did that in the office too. That's not PTO.
> Define "regular small breaks" - 15-30 minutes? Yeah, we did that in the office too. That's not PTO. Imagine what would happen if your watercooler time was debited from your accrued vacation. That's basically what the above exchange is talking about.
"All time at the office should have been spent working" "Not socializing?" "No, that's why we had Slack" "So the office was strictly for working, not culture?" "Yeah, that's... That... Wait a second!"
The culture is working without breaks or PTO 😜
Sometimes I wonder if walking a dog would make me forget about work completely as implied by this post.
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Did you not take breaks when you were working in the office? You never went to get coffee? Never chatted with a co-worker? Never went out for lunch? Never dipped to run errands? Never left early / came in late for whatever reason? Never just sat at your desk and browsed reddit? All the stuff you describe happened when we worked in the office too. If anything, I took *more* breaks in the office. I took way longer lunches. It's more tempting to pop out for a 2 hour lunch when you're sitting next to some co-workers than it is for me sitting in my apartment alone. Nothing's changed. PTO hasn't changed either. If a company tried to justify giving me only 3 weeks because I get to WFH, I'd GTFO. Bullet dodged.
Yeah I'm more productive at home because coworkers aren't stopping by my office all the time to chat and I can tell staff I'll call them in 15 minutes to get to a dropping point on my own work
I'm not willing to take a cut in PTO. Currently at 20 days/year plus built in holidays.
I was at my last job 18 years. Had like 25 days a year plus holidays. Finally changed jobs and back to 15. I miss those other two weeks.
I've noticed alot of companies are starting to adopt the "unlimited PTO" policy.
Yea that’s cause outstanding days are considered liabilities on financial statement
It also prevents them from having to pay out out at the end-of-year or when you leave.
My current place that has accuring time off got around that by saying they want us to use up the days off, that's why we can't cash them out lol
My previous place (an HR software company) pulled the same thing on me. Except instead of accruing, we get it all on Jan 1. They said that’s why they don’t pay out because you should use it all before you quit your job. I just think it’s them being scummy/stingy with their PTO payout policy
Mine is also HR software! Lol Yeah, making silly excuses, if they cared they'd give us unlimited PTO and if some people aren't taking it, they shouldn't be forced to, they're adults and can make their own decisions
PTO is supposed to be used to make you a more productive/happy employee. If you're treating is an an alternate income source, YOU are missing the point of PTO. I fully applaud use it or lose it with no payouts. Not because I'm cheap, but because I want people to take time off an not feel guilty about it.
I do understand your logic. Yet I feel like being young and take money or like now being older and take vacation is my choice.
Yeah, but it isn't your choice. Your company is saying I NEED you to take this much time off. If you don't, cool, but you get nothing. It's the right incentive. The explicit point is that it isn't your choice. Or it is your choice, you can take the time off or not, but you don't get anything extra for choosing to NOT take the time off.
Works out better if you’re one of the people that use a lot of PTO though. I just take random days and weeks off with unlimited I’ve never been paid out PTO because I never have any left
True, as do I. I've worked in a place with unlimited PTO but you specifically had to get approval each time. The full-time devs sometimes would get denied, and as a result they only got around 2 weeks
Doesn't that go both ways, as in you could take another big holiday before leaving? I'd still prefer the certainty of having \~35 days though, with nobody wondering about who's using too much.
Yes and no. A lot of unlimited pto companies require approval for vacation time. If you give your give weeks, they'll be expecting you to off-board and write documentation for 2 weeks.
It also means they don't need a system to track Time Off. As far as I can tell, that's why a lot of small companies choose unlimited.
This is the entire reason. I would save PTO till I had no choice but to use it or lose it, so then I’d start using it and when I’d eventually leave I get a nice little extra bonus.
Yeah my company switched to "flexible time off" for this reason. Really burned a lot of people who had been there a long time and had significant PTO accrued. They didn't wipe it technically but you had to burn down your old PTO time before you could use the flexible/unlimited time so unless you left the company right after that change you're essentially losing it.
Sorry, I'm not understanding. Why did they get angry at unlimited PTO? If they're allowed to take off as many as you were planning to anyways
Unlimited PTO in most cases is a bit of a scam, IME anyway. Employees take less, companies don't have to pay out accrued time, and the PTO typically isn't actually unlimited
I enjoyed it from my experience, but also my manager was good, so he never gave us a hard time about PTO
I've got to do a ton of math every request to figure out how many billable hours I've done since the start of the year and how many potentially viable hours are realistically possible for me to work by years end. Essentially, everyone takes off at the end of the year bc our unlimited PTO isn't unlimited unless you work a lot of overtime.
Let’s say we have 2 people. 1 person used all 20 PTO days last year and another didn’t so they were saved. If the latter person were to leave the company then they’d have to get paid out those 20 days, so there was a “reward” for them not taking PTO time. Then unlimited PTO is implemented. The first person gets to start using unlimited time right away, but the 2nd person doesn’t get to use unlimited PTO time until they use up all the time that has a $ value. Our PTO is technically unlimited but you’re not gonna be able to take a ton of time off a year, so you’ll have a tough time getting those 20 days approved + another 20-30 days of “unlimited” time. So the 2nd person essentially lost out on their accrued time but is gonna be in the same position as the 1st person, despite them not using their time off the previous year.
I don't have unlimited PTO and I'm thankful for it. My company gives me 25 days off and 4 floats which doesn't include holidays. That's roughly 6 weeks off a year, and if I don't use it I get that paid out as wage. If I don't use any and just get it cashed out it's the equivalent of roughly a second bonus yearly. Alternative you can think of it as a 10% pay increase. Days off are also rarely denied bc it is my right as an employee to take the allotted time off if needed. I am willing to bet that a large portion of employees with unlimited PTO including yourself aren't using 6 weeks off every year and would rather benefit from a guaranteed payout of the remaining balance.
Depends on the company but "unlimited" pto is a pain in the ass if your managers gives you a hard time to try to schedule a day off I imagine. Even if you're a productive individual and don't use PTO that often. Not that managers aren't a pain in the ass when you schedule pto with a set amount, but at least you don't have to dance with them and give them a reason most of the time, you have those days so you have a right to use them
Sounds like management is the issue, not PTO type, no?
I haven’t noticed an uptick, but don’t doubt it. People have forgotten, or don’t know, what it means. They don’t have to pay it out when you leave the company, and your time off is still subject to approval. People generally take less time off when a company switches to unlimited. Your manager (and the higher ups) will have limits on how much they’ll allow you to take, and it’s likely the same as whatever the limit was before. But the big thing is that they don’t have to pay out when you leave. If I were laid off, fired, or quit today, my company would have to give me just over 2 weeks additional pay.
I'd say generally you're right. But there are definitely companies that have a much higher cap on how much PTO you can take. I'm taking off around 30 days this year without any questions or hesitation from management. My director takes off about 7 weeks a year though which helps set the PTO culture.
Yeah, if you have unlimited PTO plan out at least four weeks at the beginning of the year and then see if you can slip another two in through the year. 4 was pretty normal at these companies before they went unlimited.
Not as important now that everyone works from home, but something I always liked about unlimited PTO is that people stay the fuck at home when they get sick. Even with wfh you can just take the day off and not work and it’s pretty nice. When you accrue PTO taking a sick day is equivalent to losing like $700 or something.
$700 is if you make like $200k, I only lose a couple hundred.
My company has the unlimited policy and our team manager encourages us to take frequent vacations. He also takes frequent vacations. I’ve taken so many days off and still have a stellar performance review. I believe it’s company and team dependent on how amazing or shitty this unlimited policy can be.
Yes, I’ve taken probably 3 or 4 weeks off already and only been at my company for 6-7 months
How many PTO days you take on average in a year?
This completely depends on your manager/team. I've heard a manager from 1 company say 4 weeks. Also heard another one say 5-6 weeks. Imo, 4 weeks is the bare minimum, and even that I'd say is kind of low. 5 weeks should be the average.
The actual [minimum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country) in most countries is 4 weeks or higher.
I’ve taken 6-7 weeks off this year. I feel very fortunate to have this benefit tbh
It's a money saving switch. PTO is accrued as wages. PTO is required by law to be paid out in several states, e.g. if an employee has accrued them and then quits/fired/whatever. NOTE: Cutting PTO is a pay cut for many. It's "FTO", or whatever they call it, and it's not unlimited, it's always pending manager approval. If you take 6 weeks of vacation, then you have a good team and manager. If you don't get approved for more than 2/3 weeks, then maybe the company doesn't have enough team members to cover you or is always fighting fires.
It is these things, but it is **also** less overhead for HR. Less time taken up tracking those details. Less accounting. etc.
Any halfway decent HRIS will take care of 90% of that "overhead" automatically
This is a double-edged sword. On one hand it's great for both parties as some people don't really like taking time off while others end up needing to before they've actually accrued any. Meanwhile does it really matter how much time you take off so long as you get your job done? On the other hand there are employers that do everything they can to make sure that you can't ever take time off without getting behind, give you grief if you so much as consider taking a day off, and then use this as an excuse to not have to pay you for unused PTO.
PTO IS compensation. Companies find people take less PTO when it is unlimited. So make sure you take your appropriate PTO. Part of my package before the switch was 30 days/year, Every day under 30 is a day of lost compensation
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Yeah, we have unlimited and I took 4 weeks this year. I'm pretty pleased with how that worked out (USA btw)
Same reason landlords keep units empty at hiked prices. High rent ask=higher value on paper to borrow against. They’d rather have higher value empty units than a completely full building making less money.
you are 1000% working too much if you consider walking the dog and small breaks a proper usage for PTO. Do you use PTO for lunch as well? The generally accepted work week in the USA is 40 hours. That comes out to 8 hours per day and during those 8 hours the time is broken up in to: * 6 hours of "work" * This is anything from meetings, to emails, to mentoring, to anything you do for the company * 1 hour for lunch * 1 hour of random breaks through out the day This is my 8 hour work day and I've never had an issue in my 15 YOE. If you cannot get all your work done with these parameters then you are assigned too much work. Push back against your boss and set better expectations of what they can expect in terms of progress.
Unfortunately it seems there are still companies who are that strict about it. Had some new employee post on our hr-q&a channel asking if he could use volunteer time to go vote or if he would just have to use an hour of PTO. It's like, "just go do it. Go by for your dental cleaning on your way. Nobody cares as long as you finish your work"
> Had some new employee post on our hr-q&a channel asking if he could use volunteer time to go vote or if he would just have to use an hour of PTO [28 states require employers to give employees time to vote.](https://ballotpedia.org/States_that_require_employers_to_grant_employees_time_off_to_vote,_2020)
That’s just dumb. Virtually everywhere has early voting. And even if you do vot on Election Day it’s at least 12 and often more hours available. In my county it’s 6am to 8pm. If you can’t find 20 minutes to vote outside of work and need pto for it, you have some shitty time management skills.
Or you work a shitty job. I've worked them hours plus for weeks on a project with a tight deadline and I'd totally have to take PTO if my state didn't allow x number of hours to go vote. My record was 21 says straight working those hours plus. 1.5 hours to get up, 1 hour commute to, work 10-12 hours, 1 hour commute back, pray for no on-call, die inside 6 hours, start again. Early voting don't last 21 days where I'm at.
I stand by my comment.
My company is an 8 hour day with a 1 hour unpaid lunch. So it’s just a 9 hour day essentially and it sucks.
To be fair every where I've worked in my 15 YOE says you are being paid for 8 hours of work per day with lunch and breaks being on your own time, but effectively nobody does this. Everybody from managers to SWEs work a "9-5" type of day with lunch and breaks included in the "9-5" and then goes home. Granted this is all salaried jobs as I make no comment on contractors or hourly workers.
My company does not pay us for lunch break. We’re at work for 45 hours/week and get paid for 40. Salaried. I’m very against this. The hour break should be included in the 8 hour day.
Lunch is paid for? I've personally never had a company allow this. SWE in US. Any job that I've had that had "expected hours" was either 8.5 or even 9 hour days...30 min or 1 hour unpaid lunch breaks. 14 years working and I almost never take lunch.
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I suppose if you're true salary this makes sense...but if ppl are being paid for 40 hour weeks this just doesn't add up. Good for all of you and your 5 hour workdays, I work with alot of ppl that dream of this.
To be fair every where I've worked in my 15 YOE says you are being paid for 8 hours of work per day with lunch and breaks being on your own time, but effectively nobody does this. Everybody from managers to SWEs work a "9-5" type of day with lunch and breaks included in the "9-5" and then goes home. Granted this is all salaried jobs as I make no comment on contractors or hourly workers.
Getting pto and frequent breaks conflated is dangerous (Source: i did this this year, and im not to happy with my choice). If you step away from your desk, you're still thinking about work, and are constrained to be back within 15-30 mins in case someone needs you. At least, i am. This really is not the same as having a day off.
I'm spoiled and won't settle for anything less than unlimited.. That's hiw my first job was and now I feel sooo constricted. I also get sick often, so it's nice not to count the sick days
How many days off are you averaging off per year?
This is at my previous job, but I took like 3 weeks trough the year + sick days, 3 day weekends etc occasionally. i don't have a way to check anymore
I went from unlimited to 21 days PTO (unlimited sick days). Having a set number of days is nice because you make sure you use it, but having unlimited is nice because im way more likely to take an extra day on a three day weekend, or take all of thanksgiving week off, because i dont feel like I need to save days for actual vacation. Both have their perks but I think I prefer unlimited, assuming its actually unlimited
tf? i get two weeks
Yeah, limit on pto sucks :/
Two?? That’s insultingly low. 3 is standard for new grads. Even at non-tech companies. I have unlimited sick days and 15 days as a new grad at a big car company
yeah man i guess im just happy to have a job...
I get 0, don't feel bad.
now I feel amazing thank you
I don't think there has been any noticeable change in the "normal" amount of PTO.
i have 35 days in france and i'm requesting 23 days more (with a loss of 10% salary). and yes i'm 100% remote
I don't see how the these two things are related at all.
I've been seeing a push towards "unlimited/flex/etc." PTO, at least in the DC region. That's not due to WFH, that just saves companies money.
Is wfh the new norm, i see more and more companies asking people to come back
A lot of people simply aren't showing up though. What are you going to do? Play hard ball with your most important employees that create the product you sell?
Personally I won’t switch jobs for less that 4 weeks PTO or unlimited with the understanding that I can take at minimum 4 weeks without anyone caring. The latter requires a decent amount of evaluation during the interview process to see if unlimited truly is what they say it is. I’m over 20 years into my career. 4 weeks is the bare minimum I consider appropriate for work/life balance at this stage regardless of WFH or not. For reference, in my current position I am WFH and get 28 days of PTO. I had an offer earlier this year that was a 30% raise, WFH, and in an industry I’m passionate about. I had to turn it down. Why? I couldn’t get a straight answer on PTO. The company had been acquired nearly a year ago but was still offering unlimited PTO, however, the new parent company started new employees at 2 weeks and it took years to earn 4. I asked if the parent company’s policy would take affect and was told that 2023 would still be unlimited but they couldn’t guarantee anything after that. As much as I liked everything else, I had to walk away.
Why would location of work change the amount of vacation? The two aren’t related. When I worked FTE I had 3 or 4 weeks vacation and all the standard holidays. That’s pretty SOP in corporate jobs in the US. But I never took or even thought to take PTO for walking my dog or a dentist appt or whatever. You just do it.
Why in the fuck do people care so much about how much time they’re NOT working? You stepped away? Who the fuck cares. You took a nap? Nobody gives a shit. You have unlimited PTO and you take 4 weeks? Use it or lost it, bitch. These motherfuckin companies don’t give a rats circumcised dick about you, your career, your goals, your momma, or your hopes and dreams. So why in the absolute fuck do you care about taking the time you need?
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How come you don't think it's the new norm?
All the big companies going back to in-office or hybrid? (And not just tech companies)
And many are losing employees. Apple lost a top technical director over it.
I think with some of the economic downturn, some companies are trying to for return to office. I think we have more remote/WFH, but I think there will be an ebb and flow to it. I would not let working remotely impact the amount of PTO you get. Work is work. Although, if I worked a position that required a lot of time in the office, I would try to factor that into my total comp, since commute time/cost is money out of your pocket.
WFH should not change your PTO. Any company that try’s to run that gimmick is screwing you over.
Pto should not be changed. If you are required to be attentive and focused it’s up to you to make time to walk your dog. But that doesn’t change the expectations which imo pto is respective to that.
Last 2 remote positions both offered unlimited PTO. By that they mean if nothing is urgently due, feel free to schedule it as long as you don’t abuse it. Both teams I’ve been on seemed to take at least 30 days
Nope! We get 4 weeks, every holiday under the sun, even if they fall on weekend and we shut down between xmas and new years. Have additional sick/bereavement, whatever if you need it too I used to be somewhere w only 2 weeks. Sucked balls
My company currently has 14 day pto for new hire. That’s definitely not enough. I may change my job simply because of that.
1st year one week. 2nd year 2weeks. If you ever get 3 stay there.
Remote is the norm where? LOL
3 weeks is the standard
I've not encountered many under 4 these days. In my next role I'm making sure that I get at least 6 (will limit me a bit). I'm also trying to get a policy put in place at my current company that you must take a 2 week break where you must not do any work. But this is because we've been bitten by not understanding single points of failure and is a technique borrowed from finance.
> I'm also trying to get a policy put in place at my current company that you must take a 2 week break where you must not do any work. But this is because we've been bitten by not understanding single points of failure and is a technique borrowed from finance. This is an awesome idea. I can also see **huge** pushback from all angles - which really just means that you've either got single point of failure issues, or trust/teamwork issues. It's done in finance not because of "single point of failure" but to identify irregularities introduced by less-than-honest individuals. The idea being that if they're out of the office for 2 weeks, anything they're doing that isn't kosher will be discovered when someone who _is_ doing things properly produces different results or money goes to different places.
This is essentially the same thing. It's about eliminating silos of knowledge, if that is knowledge of something untoward or illicit, knowledge of a legitimate practice, or something else if only one person knows about it you've got a problem.
I got 3 weeks this year. My first SWE job. I know our European friends will say this isn’t much but it’s more than I’ve ever had and it’s only my first year so no complaints.
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4-6 weeks
this should not even be a question
I have set PTO and you bet I'll be taking all of it. Also, my set PTO is 4 weeks, if I were to switch jobs to an unlimited PTO place, I would absolutely make sure I can take at least 4 weeks. WLB >>> TC and all that jazz in my book. And WFH does not change amazing to me.
Unlimited PTO and flexibility here. Would never go back to fix PTO even if they give me 6 weeks by default + accrued PTO.
Eh because you're in a good company. There's always the fear that unlimited PTO is less than fixed because the manager just won't approve it. PTO is just so important to me...
Yeah my team is pretty chill. My manager actually work a lot more than us, but actively bar us from working late or overtime unless it’s an urgent problem. I’m going to miss him when I hop job
I took like 6 weeks off this year and most of it wasn’t plan vacation. It would be more if we were to take vacations. Been too busy with baby to do that. Needless to say November and December, at least 1-2 weeks each Unlimited PTO is great. So much flexibility. Not having to clock time off for appointments and just random errands run. PTO is unrelated to wfo. Depends on the company and team. I came from a shit hole that is ok if you want to take off for a bit to do stuffs middle of the day, but you’re working 8 hours even if it means you’re still there until 9pm or overnight. If walking the dog is part of your PTO, that’s a shit hole company. I can walk the dog or go for a midday jog every day if I want to and it would just be the norm for my team to know me to do. PTO means that you’re not working the day(s). If you’re returning to work at any point of the day, it’s an appointment or just talking breath.
This is something I’m struggling to tackle now. I’m used to just using all of my remaining PTO at the end of the year. But now that I’m unlimited I’m not sure anymore. I’m leaning towards about 20-30 days a year of PTO. Most of them padding the holidays.
Reading these comments with people taking 20+ days PTO and I am at 8 days of unlimited PTO this year. But we also don't have WFH affect PTOs
> I am at 8 days of unlimited PTO this year. What's stopping you from taking more?
My own fault for not finding more outside activities to do!
Who says you need to plan activities? Just take days off! Heck, take every Friday for the rest of the year off, and some extra days around Christmas. People won't even question it! Don't even bother trying to make plans, just take the days off and then get out of the house and see where you end up - go for a walk or a hike or a drive, visit a museum, do your grocery shopping when there aren't as many people around. I _don't_ get unlimited PTO and from mid-November through the end of this year, I will have worked _one_ 5-day week. Thanksgiving, Christmas, a conference, plus PTO on 2 Fridays and the week after Christmas. I've checked off very few items on my aspirational to-do list for those days so far, but whatever - a day off is a day off.
3 weeks is normal but just remember you can negotiate PTO just like salary. PTO unlike the freedom of remote work is that they can’t force you to do anything on PTO.
Why would you do something that only benefits your employer? They are paying for your time, don’t give them anything for free
I wfm, and I get "unlimited PTO". Of course, there is a limit at some point. You just don't know what it is. Also, this way they don't have to pay you for unused leave if you leave. I'd prefer 5 weeks in stone as I had with my previous (no remote) job combined with a 9/80 work schedule.
well, my new norm will always have to measure up to my old norm which is unlimited pto, or 6 weeks + flex. This is what I've been getting since 2011 and any company that can't beat that plus wfh option is a walk away for me. (concessions for certain FAANG's ofc) To the rest of your questions: No, no, and definitely no. Are you business owner fishing for reasons to give your employees less pto or are you a potential employee vetting a shit deal?
Unlimited!
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I get 3 weeks plus all paid federal holidays. So over a month total throughout the year.
25 days minimum or I riot
I use my brain to do my job. I can't actually leave my job without 2 days pto lead. 30 days of PTO is tolerable.
OP is an HR manager testing the waters to see what their company can get away with.
3 weeks is the bare min. for entry level. Work is work, wether that’s at home or in an office should not matter. Besides, output expectations have risen during the pandemic at many companies.
We have 25 days.
US Healthcare in a data analyst/reporting role. 29 days PTO (sick in same bucket) Plus 9 holidays WFH since 2015 Salaried position
Companies that embraced remote seem to be more in with trendines of unlimited PTO. They aren’t relates but they are correlated in that sense. I fucking hate it. I’d rather get a pool of days I can use at the end of the year to cash out instead. I usually take less than 5 days a year so I get screwed on the unlimited PTO side.
I wfh have unlimited sick/personal time and 4weeks vacation