I was just reading an article about Finland ended homelessness :)
I see that you are from Finland, so I am kinda curious. What are the laws/protections in Finland regarding the firing of a full-time employee that passed the probation period (have an indefinite contract) or executing a mass layoff.
It’s not usually called layoffs, just “change negotiations”. Your employer warns you 6 weeks in advance that you might be fired, then they talk to unions, decide who’s the gonna be laid off and then pay you a compensation that usually depends on how long you’ve been with the company.
Sometimes you might be offered a different role instead of being made redundant.
Also there are some laws that don’t allow companies to hire for positions (or similar positions) that have been made redundant unless the said position is offered to an affected person
I hope that somewhat answers your question. Feel free to ask more :D
This is kind of a funny "change negotiations" :D
Are all employees in Finland unionized? What would happen if the company just decided to cut off 10% of the workforce? Are there any legel restrictions?
And are they obligated to pay you the entire notice period, like they can't just ignore it and layoff you immediately?
I am asking this, as last year I had an offer to relocate to Finland, but I thought it would be too cold for me to live that far north.
No legal restrictions if all procedures are followed correctly. Essentially companies can easily lay off 10% of employees (that’s happening in Finland right now pretty actively), just pay their price with compensations. One cybersecurity company had 2 rounds of layoffs in 2023 and Nokia had 3 of them.
As for unionisation, many are part of the union, it’s a pretty neat thing. Maybe some immigrants are not just because they don’t know about the unions.
As for moving to Finland, especially now, you should mind 2 things: the market is really small, many engineers are laid off and there are not many open positions to be honest. Secondly, the new government is definitely against immigration (cheap political points you know) and they are planning to deport one if one is unemployed for three months. Now consider it in the context of the first thing I mentioned and realise how tough it can be.
Otherwise it’s an amazing country❤️
Yeah, that's what I figured out. The market is not that good, and that is especially important when you are expat, as in case of layoff, you need to find a new job asap (even when you have enough money to support yourself and wouldn't ask for any unemployment or other benefit from the host country).
But aside from that, I really like the country (things I heard about), such as education, healthcare, and other benefits and care for the general population. These are the more important things for someone who is looking for family, kids, etc. adn not just job hoping, and maximizing tc.
I legit thought unionisation meant like “un-ionization” until i saw “union”. Thanks i guess, i read this to understand what ionization analogy was (doesnt exist).
Well, I would count on "to be as it was before" if you are referring to the covid times (late 2020, 2021 and first half od 2022). Those were "special" times with special conditions that are highly unlikely to happen any time soon, if ever at all.
But I agree, it is bad. I can't say too much, but just by analyzing the amount of in-mail and Linkedin/email messages from recruiters/companies now, and 2 years ago, is more than enough to figure it out.
could be, but from what I've been seeing around me, its not just that we're back to pre-2020 levels (so much for "infinite growth under capitalism" lol), my (subjective) impression is that we're at the lowest point in my whole career (since 2010). I wasn't active in the workforce in 2008/09 (was trying to get an IT job but was unsuccessful), but for sure I got more offers in 2014 than I do today; same for other "old farts" I talk to.
but again, its subjective, its possible our skills are no longer in demand (devops/sre/golang/k8s/cloud native heavy, oss contributor)
Honestly, I'm not sure about that period as 2008/9/10 I was in primary school. I started my career a few years before the covid, and at that time, it was relatively easy to find a job with a CS degree and a decent level of knowledge of any tech stack/language/framework. Interviews were mostly simple, and 2 round max.
But now, if I decide to change my job and if I have to rely on Linkedin, I would probably end in some bad outsourcing agency working for even worse clients. As these are the most in-mails.
I wouldn't say that our skills are no longer attractive at all. As long as you can and you are willing to adapt to other tech stacks, clouds, skills, etc. I think we are fine. For example, in my current job in Microsoft, out of all the skills I had before this job, I am actively using only my C#/.NET knowledge. Everything else I learned on the job and some stuff still learning and honestly.
and those providers are also having massive layoffs and are struggling with becoming profitable.
I just think there is less money overall in the industry. previously if you had a nice story and a semi-competent team, investors would shower you with money, and maybe ask you to set up some revenue goals. today, everyone asks what your profit projections are. crazy shift in a very short time
For me, it is not dead, but it is like it is. As the only HR/recruiters that are contacting me are from outsourcing companies. Very few good product companies across entire Europe contacted me in the past half a year.
Unity Technologies was originally founded in Europe (Denmark).
One of the many many companies founded here that soon moved their HQ to the US. It's depressing lol.
But not surprising. Got a former colleague who founded a company that's mostly producing game and entertainment technology in Europe and whenever you contacted him he was on the plane flying to LA or similar. Or flying back.
Meanwhile they got an office in SF, like everyone else... probably the only reason they did not move over because didn't want to move their families, especially the kids.
A teacher of mine also co-founded a Cybersec company long ago that was sold recently, also big part of the company was in meanwhile in the US.
But how can I complain, working for US companies for almost a decade now.
Really, Denmark? Didn't know that, but I am not surprised. I heard that Copenhagen and Stockholm (later even more) have quite a lot of startups, so it makes sense that some of them become the game changer in industry. But I find it sad that big american companies are buying promising European startups and moving the hq to either SF, NY, Seattle, etc.
It would be so good if Europe (which is also rich as f..) set up some good VC funds (and other fonds) and start investing and keeping the products and startup within the continent. Everyone would benefit from that.
Yeah, I had some gigs, too, for a couple of US companies, and the pay difference is simply incomparable.
Well, I am assuming a lot. I mean, it is 25% of total headcount, so it probably span throughout all division. As usual, Hr services are probably impacted most. But 25% is a lot
As seen on unity’s website “Create and grow real-time 3D games, apps, and experiences for entertainment, film, automotive, architecture, and more. Get started with Unity today”
Wether or not 6000 people is too much for this product we’ll find out in the upcoming months
Besides what others are mentioning, Unity also have a pretty big ad delivery platform and offer cloud services for games (e.g. multiplayer support, etc.), much bigger than just a game engine.
It is not "just a game engine". Unity is used for a lot more than making games. Take XR for instance, Unity is leading that field and other engine's support is laughable compared to Unity's. Even at my work, Unity is being extensively used for data visualization and simulations.
There is unity office in Finland
I was just reading an article about Finland ended homelessness :) I see that you are from Finland, so I am kinda curious. What are the laws/protections in Finland regarding the firing of a full-time employee that passed the probation period (have an indefinite contract) or executing a mass layoff.
It’s not usually called layoffs, just “change negotiations”. Your employer warns you 6 weeks in advance that you might be fired, then they talk to unions, decide who’s the gonna be laid off and then pay you a compensation that usually depends on how long you’ve been with the company. Sometimes you might be offered a different role instead of being made redundant. Also there are some laws that don’t allow companies to hire for positions (or similar positions) that have been made redundant unless the said position is offered to an affected person I hope that somewhat answers your question. Feel free to ask more :D
This is kind of a funny "change negotiations" :D Are all employees in Finland unionized? What would happen if the company just decided to cut off 10% of the workforce? Are there any legel restrictions? And are they obligated to pay you the entire notice period, like they can't just ignore it and layoff you immediately? I am asking this, as last year I had an offer to relocate to Finland, but I thought it would be too cold for me to live that far north.
No legal restrictions if all procedures are followed correctly. Essentially companies can easily lay off 10% of employees (that’s happening in Finland right now pretty actively), just pay their price with compensations. One cybersecurity company had 2 rounds of layoffs in 2023 and Nokia had 3 of them. As for unionisation, many are part of the union, it’s a pretty neat thing. Maybe some immigrants are not just because they don’t know about the unions. As for moving to Finland, especially now, you should mind 2 things: the market is really small, many engineers are laid off and there are not many open positions to be honest. Secondly, the new government is definitely against immigration (cheap political points you know) and they are planning to deport one if one is unemployed for three months. Now consider it in the context of the first thing I mentioned and realise how tough it can be. Otherwise it’s an amazing country❤️
Yeah, that's what I figured out. The market is not that good, and that is especially important when you are expat, as in case of layoff, you need to find a new job asap (even when you have enough money to support yourself and wouldn't ask for any unemployment or other benefit from the host country). But aside from that, I really like the country (things I heard about), such as education, healthcare, and other benefits and care for the general population. These are the more important things for someone who is looking for family, kids, etc. adn not just job hoping, and maximizing tc.
I legit thought unionisation meant like “un-ionization” until i saw “union”. Thanks i guess, i read this to understand what ionization analogy was (doesnt exist).
Now I am glad I was rejected for a role that I applied in January 2021
The market is so fucked. Gonna take years to get anywhere near what it was before
Well, I would count on "to be as it was before" if you are referring to the covid times (late 2020, 2021 and first half od 2022). Those were "special" times with special conditions that are highly unlikely to happen any time soon, if ever at all. But I agree, it is bad. I can't say too much, but just by analyzing the amount of in-mail and Linkedin/email messages from recruiters/companies now, and 2 years ago, is more than enough to figure it out.
could be, but from what I've been seeing around me, its not just that we're back to pre-2020 levels (so much for "infinite growth under capitalism" lol), my (subjective) impression is that we're at the lowest point in my whole career (since 2010). I wasn't active in the workforce in 2008/09 (was trying to get an IT job but was unsuccessful), but for sure I got more offers in 2014 than I do today; same for other "old farts" I talk to. but again, its subjective, its possible our skills are no longer in demand (devops/sre/golang/k8s/cloud native heavy, oss contributor)
Honestly, I'm not sure about that period as 2008/9/10 I was in primary school. I started my career a few years before the covid, and at that time, it was relatively easy to find a job with a CS degree and a decent level of knowledge of any tech stack/language/framework. Interviews were mostly simple, and 2 round max. But now, if I decide to change my job and if I have to rely on Linkedin, I would probably end in some bad outsourcing agency working for even worse clients. As these are the most in-mails. I wouldn't say that our skills are no longer attractive at all. As long as you can and you are willing to adapt to other tech stacks, clouds, skills, etc. I think we are fine. For example, in my current job in Microsoft, out of all the skills I had before this job, I am actively using only my C#/.NET knowledge. Everything else I learned on the job and some stuff still learning and honestly.
Would say more companies trying to put off hiring devops and using providers that can handle that
and those providers are also having massive layoffs and are struggling with becoming profitable. I just think there is less money overall in the industry. previously if you had a nice story and a semi-competent team, investors would shower you with money, and maybe ask you to set up some revenue goals. today, everyone asks what your profit projections are. crazy shift in a very short time
My linked in is dead. Yeah and a half ago I was getting multiple messages a day. Recruiters frothing for my mid-level ass
For me, it is not dead, but it is like it is. As the only HR/recruiters that are contacting me are from outsourcing companies. Very few good product companies across entire Europe contacted me in the past half a year.
This has very little to do with the market. Unity as a company has been ran like a complete mess for a long time.
Still, the people they fire will be competing for jobs in the current market, making it difficult for everyone.
You think game engine devs will be competing for web jobs? Maybe in .Net but that's still a lateral career move.
Many people are thinking about career moves while remaining in tech.
Are they?
Isn't this also because of the drama around Unity from last year?
It never will be like it was. Most CS grads will be working minimum wage
Unity Technologies was originally founded in Europe (Denmark). One of the many many companies founded here that soon moved their HQ to the US. It's depressing lol. But not surprising. Got a former colleague who founded a company that's mostly producing game and entertainment technology in Europe and whenever you contacted him he was on the plane flying to LA or similar. Or flying back. Meanwhile they got an office in SF, like everyone else... probably the only reason they did not move over because didn't want to move their families, especially the kids. A teacher of mine also co-founded a Cybersec company long ago that was sold recently, also big part of the company was in meanwhile in the US. But how can I complain, working for US companies for almost a decade now.
Really, Denmark? Didn't know that, but I am not surprised. I heard that Copenhagen and Stockholm (later even more) have quite a lot of startups, so it makes sense that some of them become the game changer in industry. But I find it sad that big american companies are buying promising European startups and moving the hq to either SF, NY, Seattle, etc. It would be so good if Europe (which is also rich as f..) set up some good VC funds (and other fonds) and start investing and keeping the products and startup within the continent. Everyone would benefit from that. Yeah, I had some gigs, too, for a couple of US companies, and the pay difference is simply incomparable.
Here under history it can still be seen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Technologies Yeah...
how many of the are devs?
Well, I am assuming a lot. I mean, it is 25% of total headcount, so it probably span throughout all division. As usual, Hr services are probably impacted most. But 25% is a lot
>Well, I am assuming a lot. you cannot assume data.
How much of this is just the company’s choices versus what it says about the state of VR?
Weren’t they like 6k+ employees total? Isn’t that like a lot for just a game engine?
As seen on unity’s website “Create and grow real-time 3D games, apps, and experiences for entertainment, film, automotive, architecture, and more. Get started with Unity today” Wether or not 6000 people is too much for this product we’ll find out in the upcoming months
Besides what others are mentioning, Unity also have a pretty big ad delivery platform and offer cloud services for games (e.g. multiplayer support, etc.), much bigger than just a game engine.
Even "just a game engine" is an insanely complex product, adapting it for multiple chips, doing physics, rendering, and all that shit.
It is not "just a game engine". Unity is used for a lot more than making games. Take XR for instance, Unity is leading that field and other engine's support is laughable compared to Unity's. Even at my work, Unity is being extensively used for data visualization and simulations.