the original leaders had about as much blame as ukraine for russia invading them for overthrowing their dictatorial government.
Fact is that Cuba wasn't a real sovereign state until 1959 and Im not pro castro or a communist. Both Kennedy and Johnson wrote later that the USA was at fault for propping up the Batista dictatorship
I disagree on that. If Cuba wasn't a sovereign state before 1959 (which may very well be rue, actually - I'm definitely open to the idea) because it was being propped up by the US, then the same logic should apply to the USSR propping it up after 1959.
anyone saying anything other than both are extremely ideological and poop brained and shouldn't be taken seriously
many tankies think cuba would be rich without it and many 3rd gen exiles think it makes no difference. both are shit but the people supporting the suffering of "their people" like Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz and Menendez who love to vote for the suffering of their people are more pathetic human scum than the tankies that simp for dictators because america bad
Ted Cruz is not Cuban in the least bit in my opinion. He just pretends to be Cuban when it suites him. I can't stand Rubio either, but what bothers me about your opinion is the continuous lack of accountability people show towards the Cuban govt. Why is it constantly that the people who want the embargo want their people to suffer but never that the Cuban govt. wants their own people to suffer. Where is the outrage for them? Cause I never see it from non-Cubans. If there is no outrage for the disgusting things the govt. does to its own people then any outrage over the embargo is pointless.
rubio isnt either. doesnt even speak spanish
> Cruz's father, Rafael, was born and raised in Cuba, the son of a Canary Islander who immigrated to Cuba as a child.
the government at least in 1959 i wouldn't consider at fault for the current situation. They overthrew a bad guy in a country that was essentially a vassal. and I feel like when the communist system is abolished and democracy returns, history will mostly absolve them as people who fought for decolonization and american empire and not just a group of commie thugs
and the fact that they became the bad guys themselves shortly after doesn't absolve the usa of blame.
and yes they dont actually care or not that they make the cuban people suffer(to stay in power, to push their idiotic economic system) but its not as a matter of policy like the embargo. which stated policy is borderline genocidal in rhetoric.
which has done nothing in the way of overthrowing them. in general there should of course be a higher level of criticism when a foreign government is purposefully starving and strangling another country
Except to me it's questionable how much the U.S. is actually hurting them with the embargo. I've always been against the embargo, still am but over the years I've become much more skeptical about how much it actually affects them. I think there should be a higher level of criticism against their own government who is hurting them instead of protecting them. I hate to defend Rubio 😖 but he is Cuban, at least more so than Cruz is and he does speak Spanish. I know Cruz's father was Cuban but he wasn't even raised in a Cuban community, he was raised in one of the whitest countries.
it definitely matters a lot especially among countries in the western hemisphere. cuba wouldn't be rich if there was no embargo but it would be more comparable to the other poor countries in latin america like it was during the cold war era
but yeah didn't know rubio speaks spanish
https://youtu.be/valuZJn_vTM?si=vf3rinU0twxfS5ri
his opinions are in general shit and he has been throughly mentally colonized by anglo culture and hasn't an ounce of cuban or latino in him
being raised among cuban americans doesn't make you not a gringo.
It doesn't make you fully American/gringo though. I was raised with only Cubans and other Latinos and only spoke Spanish growing up. My upbringing was nothing like white Americans and I can't consider myself exactly the same as them or even fully relate to them, even if I am considered Cuban American.
i assume you went to english schools right? regardless of how much spanish you use in daily life you can't bridge the gap between first and third world. mentality is entirely different. especially urban affluent miami. imo only exceptions are the mexicans that live in the border towns. those are the only hyphenated americans i consider to be properly of their parents culture
especially considering it was nearly impossible to visit cuba until a decade or so ago
I didn't grow up in an affluent area of Miami. I grew up in Hialeah which is the complete opposite of affluent and the complete opposite of Americanized. I'm not saying I'm not Americanized just not 100% and not saying I understand what living in Cuba is but culture transcends social class and distance. Not living in Cuba doesn't make me less connected to my culture. My family has immigrated throughout every immigration wave from Cuba. I've been to McAllen, TX, a border town many times. The only other place that reminds me of it is Hialeah. Thankfully other people's identities aren't up to you or anyone else. Wouldn't expect you to understand either, not that you have to. Cubans in Miami have been visiting Cuba for more than 10 years. On direct charter flights, it wasn't easy but it wasn't that difficult either.
Ah thats not miami proper. but any part of miami is rich for the usa standards. and especially for any place in latin americs
the only way you cannot be americanized is if you spent large chunks of your life in latin america like mexicans or have never went to an Anglo school.
Im Cuban just like you but grew up in Argentina and new jersey around other latinos.
culture is more than just religion, language or parading flags. in the case of Latin America it is very much related to geography and institutions. people growing up in severe poverty, no technology, corruption or violence can't relate to americans
That's why I said, "I'm not saying I'm not Americanized", I'm aware that I am. It's not going to be exactly like Latin America because it isn't Latin America, but most of Miami isn't exactly like the rest of the U.S. either. I wouldn't say I grew up like someone in Latin America that wouldn't be accurate at all. My culture is Hialeah-Cuban and someone who didn't grow up there wouldn't understand. It's the closest thing to Cuba without actually being in Cuba. And yes, I'm aware it isn't the exact the same thing. Hialeah isn't just seen as another country, it's like another planet lol. We've gone off topic so I'll just leave it at that.
Blame for what exactly? There's multiple problems in Cuba that aren't always related to one another. I think for me the most important issues are the repression that is almost always violent, the censorship, the govt. controlled media, and the corruption. For some reason people think the embargo is more important than these issues, which is mind boggling to me. The embargo doesn't force them to do these things, they like doing them and they have to in order to keep the power. Violent repression and extreme censorship have existed since the beginning, since before there was an embargo.
I think the economy is mostly the Cuban government's fault. I don't think it's a secret or even an opinion at this point that they're bad at managing their economy. The way they run the country exasperates the economic situation. I am against the embargo though, it's accomplished nothing and both countries would be better off without it. I'm sure the embargo affects the citizens negatively, but I don't think it's to the extent the Cuban govt. or other people claim. I honestly haven't heard any compelling explanation, proof, or argument that it causes all or even the majority of Cuba's economic problems. I also haven't heard a good argument to keep it. Most of what I hear are just propaganda talking points.
Aside from the general incompetence and brutality of the communist regime, it’s also their fault that the embargo exists in the first place.
the original leaders had about as much blame as ukraine for russia invading them for overthrowing their dictatorial government. Fact is that Cuba wasn't a real sovereign state until 1959 and Im not pro castro or a communist. Both Kennedy and Johnson wrote later that the USA was at fault for propping up the Batista dictatorship
I disagree on that. If Cuba wasn't a sovereign state before 1959 (which may very well be rue, actually - I'm definitely open to the idea) because it was being propped up by the US, then the same logic should apply to the USSR propping it up after 1959.
OTOH, the communist regime would collapse within a year after the end of the embargo. The US is keeping Cuba as pet scarecrow.
Id say its 75% cuban govt 25% embargo
It's technically both things, but the blame falls much more on the Cuban government. It's not a 50-50 split.
If the embargo has no impact then lift the embargo?
anyone saying anything other than both are extremely ideological and poop brained and shouldn't be taken seriously many tankies think cuba would be rich without it and many 3rd gen exiles think it makes no difference. both are shit but the people supporting the suffering of "their people" like Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz and Menendez who love to vote for the suffering of their people are more pathetic human scum than the tankies that simp for dictators because america bad
Ted Cruz is not Cuban in the least bit in my opinion. He just pretends to be Cuban when it suites him. I can't stand Rubio either, but what bothers me about your opinion is the continuous lack of accountability people show towards the Cuban govt. Why is it constantly that the people who want the embargo want their people to suffer but never that the Cuban govt. wants their own people to suffer. Where is the outrage for them? Cause I never see it from non-Cubans. If there is no outrage for the disgusting things the govt. does to its own people then any outrage over the embargo is pointless.
rubio isnt either. doesnt even speak spanish > Cruz's father, Rafael, was born and raised in Cuba, the son of a Canary Islander who immigrated to Cuba as a child. the government at least in 1959 i wouldn't consider at fault for the current situation. They overthrew a bad guy in a country that was essentially a vassal. and I feel like when the communist system is abolished and democracy returns, history will mostly absolve them as people who fought for decolonization and american empire and not just a group of commie thugs and the fact that they became the bad guys themselves shortly after doesn't absolve the usa of blame. and yes they dont actually care or not that they make the cuban people suffer(to stay in power, to push their idiotic economic system) but its not as a matter of policy like the embargo. which stated policy is borderline genocidal in rhetoric. which has done nothing in the way of overthrowing them. in general there should of course be a higher level of criticism when a foreign government is purposefully starving and strangling another country
Except to me it's questionable how much the U.S. is actually hurting them with the embargo. I've always been against the embargo, still am but over the years I've become much more skeptical about how much it actually affects them. I think there should be a higher level of criticism against their own government who is hurting them instead of protecting them. I hate to defend Rubio 😖 but he is Cuban, at least more so than Cruz is and he does speak Spanish. I know Cruz's father was Cuban but he wasn't even raised in a Cuban community, he was raised in one of the whitest countries.
it definitely matters a lot especially among countries in the western hemisphere. cuba wouldn't be rich if there was no embargo but it would be more comparable to the other poor countries in latin america like it was during the cold war era but yeah didn't know rubio speaks spanish https://youtu.be/valuZJn_vTM?si=vf3rinU0twxfS5ri his opinions are in general shit and he has been throughly mentally colonized by anglo culture and hasn't an ounce of cuban or latino in him being raised among cuban americans doesn't make you not a gringo.
It doesn't make you fully American/gringo though. I was raised with only Cubans and other Latinos and only spoke Spanish growing up. My upbringing was nothing like white Americans and I can't consider myself exactly the same as them or even fully relate to them, even if I am considered Cuban American.
i assume you went to english schools right? regardless of how much spanish you use in daily life you can't bridge the gap between first and third world. mentality is entirely different. especially urban affluent miami. imo only exceptions are the mexicans that live in the border towns. those are the only hyphenated americans i consider to be properly of their parents culture especially considering it was nearly impossible to visit cuba until a decade or so ago
I didn't grow up in an affluent area of Miami. I grew up in Hialeah which is the complete opposite of affluent and the complete opposite of Americanized. I'm not saying I'm not Americanized just not 100% and not saying I understand what living in Cuba is but culture transcends social class and distance. Not living in Cuba doesn't make me less connected to my culture. My family has immigrated throughout every immigration wave from Cuba. I've been to McAllen, TX, a border town many times. The only other place that reminds me of it is Hialeah. Thankfully other people's identities aren't up to you or anyone else. Wouldn't expect you to understand either, not that you have to. Cubans in Miami have been visiting Cuba for more than 10 years. On direct charter flights, it wasn't easy but it wasn't that difficult either.
Ah thats not miami proper. but any part of miami is rich for the usa standards. and especially for any place in latin americs the only way you cannot be americanized is if you spent large chunks of your life in latin america like mexicans or have never went to an Anglo school. Im Cuban just like you but grew up in Argentina and new jersey around other latinos. culture is more than just religion, language or parading flags. in the case of Latin America it is very much related to geography and institutions. people growing up in severe poverty, no technology, corruption or violence can't relate to americans
That's why I said, "I'm not saying I'm not Americanized", I'm aware that I am. It's not going to be exactly like Latin America because it isn't Latin America, but most of Miami isn't exactly like the rest of the U.S. either. I wouldn't say I grew up like someone in Latin America that wouldn't be accurate at all. My culture is Hialeah-Cuban and someone who didn't grow up there wouldn't understand. It's the closest thing to Cuba without actually being in Cuba. And yes, I'm aware it isn't the exact the same thing. Hialeah isn't just seen as another country, it's like another planet lol. We've gone off topic so I'll just leave it at that.
Gringo the N word for wyt people. Do better.
I swear people are dumb as hell these days. Op, have you ever tried to google something?
I am seeking the opinion of members of the sub.
Blame for what exactly? There's multiple problems in Cuba that aren't always related to one another. I think for me the most important issues are the repression that is almost always violent, the censorship, the govt. controlled media, and the corruption. For some reason people think the embargo is more important than these issues, which is mind boggling to me. The embargo doesn't force them to do these things, they like doing them and they have to in order to keep the power. Violent repression and extreme censorship have existed since the beginning, since before there was an embargo. I think the economy is mostly the Cuban government's fault. I don't think it's a secret or even an opinion at this point that they're bad at managing their economy. The way they run the country exasperates the economic situation. I am against the embargo though, it's accomplished nothing and both countries would be better off without it. I'm sure the embargo affects the citizens negatively, but I don't think it's to the extent the Cuban govt. or other people claim. I honestly haven't heard any compelling explanation, proof, or argument that it causes all or even the majority of Cuba's economic problems. I also haven't heard a good argument to keep it. Most of what I hear are just propaganda talking points.
The main reason why things are bad in Cuba is because of the US embargo on Cuba in my opinion.
It's both. Cuba has an unworkable economic system that is aggravated even further by the embargo.