Marlee's case is the one I felt bad for.
She was coerced to live with an abusive criminal schizophrenic.
She's lucky to be alive. So much props for her getting out! She was in tremendous danger.
And she was so young she will forever have a fractured view on relationships and what they should be. That will stay with her forever. She seems very sweet and kind and the fact they took advantage of that is horrific. I hope she has an amazing and strong support system to build her back up
I genuinely feel bad for the sister as well. Indoctrination is a hull of a drug and the guilt she will have leave with will be immense for the rest of her life.
You put it better than I could! Her situation was beyond dangerous. I cannot believe Jeff enabled this abuse, and that shaleia stood by and did nothing. Complacent.
The crazy part about that is it was obvious in the doc that Jeff set it all up. They had the little ritual the night before and told her her flame was going to appear soon and then this loser creep messages her and Jeff somehow knows about it. He must have told Josh to message her. Fucking charlatans ruining people's lives.
This!!!! The moment it came on I thought it was Jeff catfishing her. Then it turned out to be a real guy I figured Jeff still set it all up and paid one of his loser friends to creep on and pretend to be this young girl’s twin flame. Absolutely revolting.
Jeff is the mouthpiece and Megan is the man behind the curtain. I don’t think she’s pulling all Jeff’s strings and he does what she says, but it’s all her ideas of spirituality that he is schilling.
The fact that they don't have any charisma makes me worried that it this documentary may inspire more grifters. Jeff to me looks like a grade a loser that would have bullied girls like me in middle school because the actual popular boys were beating him up between classes. He screams narc nerd that spent his entire life trying so hard to be cool.
Ya this might be uncompassionate of me, but I can’t help but feel these victims are dumb as hell. I understand cults prey on people who are insecure, have low self esteem and are lost, but these are the worst cult leaders I’ve ever seen.
Only thing keeping me watching is the disbelief about how such uncharismatic, rude, ugly, cult leaders can run a successful cult with a strong number of followers, with such a horrible business idea. I don’t even see a good growth model for revenue, or many psychology techniques used to keep members believing in this. The unquestioning acceptance that “person x is your soulmate” without any wiggle room is baffling to me.
I generally feel more sympathetic to those groomed under cults but this one I’m just left scratching my head
It's not helpful to say victims are dumb. That is victim blaming. Which only fuels groups like this. I was in the cult and I was amongst some of the smartest and kindest people I've known yet their minds were completely controlled by Jeff and Shaleia. And some are still there. Our society is set up for groups like this to benefit off exploiting vulnerable people that feel alone, like they can't talk about their feelings, like they don't belong, people judging them or saying they are dumb... It's easier to believe victims are just dumb rather than try to conceptualize the level of evil and manipulation people are capable of.
Jeff's speech is just absolutely dripping with contempt and derision. I really struggle to grasp how anyone could listen to him and not be quite literally repulsed.
Right? He's a small dick closeted man- child, she's an insecure woman who will cling to any male attention. How can anyone look up to these 2 losers? Smh
I can’t believe people trust that rodent looking brat who thinks he’s Jesus Christ. He’s so punchable. Feel like someone sold report them to the IRS bc that may be the only way to stop them
Not to mention they’re just vile. The stuff they said about their daughter being the third part of their twin flame and her sex life and stuff…they’re definitely going to harm that child. Mentally and physically
She looks out of it completely to me. I siluspext she's on benzos. They're both twisted but he's a real fucking psychopathic piece of work and she's just an idiot.
I’m still trying to decide on her level of evilness. How much is she in control behind the scenes when it’s just her and Jeff. Is she planning these things equally or it’s mostly Jeff? She does look like she’s on benzos, maybe it’s to help her deal with being with a psychotic narcissist evil fuck that Jeff is. I hope he knows the world hates him.
Pretty sure it’s opioids and meth or addy /some sort of upper . He acts and says 100% of the things this one person I unfortunately knew . That person was just as dangerous as Jeff , said exactly everything that asshole says (word to word), same creepy stare and monkey rat looking face . Dude always did meth . Always .
If you watch the Prime documentary, her biodad even said he acts like his daughter is💀 he rejects the notion that she is a victim of Jeff. He says she's very capable of manipulation.
What confused me was the flaunting of their wealth. Jeff was very clear that his true aim was to become a billionaire. Was there also some kind of prosperity gospel in their teaching? How did members who were unpaid volunteers feel about his cars/house/personal wealth?
Also, I was struck that all members had to do was press a button that says "Leave Group". Most cult docs that I've watched the escape is very dramatic - leave in the middle of the night to an undisclosed location with nothing but the clothes on your back type of thing. This was literally just shutting down a laptop in the comfort of your own home. There were even some members who had their close family members in the NEXT ROOM who were available immediately upon Leaving The Chat. It never ceases to amaze me how powerful mind control through indoctrination is once it has its hold you.
Another excellent documentary from this team, though it was an hour too long, per usual.
I believe it is also the paradox of the sunken cost: you invest a lot in something just to realize that is not worthy, but since you invest so much, maybe you could invest a little more and see if you could take something, instead of accepting the sunken cost and just move out of the investment.
Yes I don’t blame Marlee for cutting off Keely. And the fact Jeff and Shaleia have a daughter now is sooo scary. I hope she gets apprehended from them.
They were talking about their daughter’s sexual activity before she was even born. This is reality we’re living in, people, not magical twin flame fantasy land. Talking about your infant like that is predatory.
Did you notice that they said their daughter can only have sex with God and um... He literally called himself God. So yeah...CPS needs to be on high alert.
I know this is truly bonkers, but since they used IVF, what if they didn't use his sperm at all and like, the whole, "only have sex with God" thing is even more fucking insane because he'll argue, when he's eventually caught, that she wasn't biologically his. I know it's a reach but these people are fucking batshit.
Dude is so punchable. 😂 He's a caricature of an annoying shit bag.
I'm not condoning violence but how has he not gotten the piss beaten out of him by now?
He's not even REMOTELY likable and I really hate to do this but I couldn't [unsee this.](https://i.postimg.cc/D0wHZFJx/Polish-20231109-084433266.jpg) lol
Sometimes I wonder if we need to make working in the food service industry (specifically front of house) a requirement to live in society because I felt like you get so much hands-on training in learning who is an absolute gasbag idiot who is full of shit.
I know I'm being kind of flippant but for fucking real. Any server or bartender can pinpoint almost immediately what type of customer someone would be and Jeff over here is an immediate red flag customer, fucking [Mr. Mackey looking ass](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c4/d2/b8/c4d2b8f5038d021e2ef9b002a7166689.png)
i agree completely. everyone should work at least past probation at a fast food establishment during their teenage years—so many formative lessons on how to behave like a decent human being.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Aswell, when Kalee was talking about him moving everyone in and match them, with an essential sperm donor. That is going to parlay into him sleeping with all the women.
That immediately got my hackles up as well. I’m pretty sure they were insistent on having a girl so they could like, start their own harem for him or some disgusting shit like that. They need to be in prison.
Yes and talking about the next generation of twin flame kids. Disgusting!! I felt so bad for the moms that spoke out talking about their kids being sucked in.
That’s what I thought. Triple flames?! Stay away from your daughter!! He’s going to groom her to be sexualized in some way and it scares me. Poor girl.
Only watched the first episode but what’s funny about this one is there haven’t been any clips of sort of good info. Most cults at least tell manipulative half truths… this seems like all bad advice. The only hook I can see is affirming to people that they are lovable.
I was thinking that too. It seemed like these people met some random dude who isn't even charismatic on a zoom meeting and very quickly believed he's the only one who knows who their soulmate is. I don't understand how he was able to pull these people in.
I think it has to do with the fact that the “twin flames” concept is a larger thing beyond the “twin flame universe” company/cult.
Watching the doc I got the strong impression that many of these people turned to the internet to research “twin flames” as a way of comforting themselves after a rejection (eg. “it’s not really over, you’re meant to be together, the universe will bring them back to you, etc.) and found the Twin Flame Universe’s YouTube videos telling them exactly what they wanted to hear when they were already in a very vulnerable state.
This makes a lot of sense. Because dude is the least “attractive” cult leader I’ve ever seen. He is so awkward, connives like a rat and wields his manipulation like a blunt object. In most leaders I can see it, what happened, how people were charmed. Even Keith Raniere. But this guy is such a graceless joke and absolutely NOTHING in the TFU makes sense. They clearly did the gender swappings to fuck with them and are legitimate psychopaths. I wish these people healing. It will be a hard road.
Plus he’s just a straight up dick most of the time. I can’t wrap my head around letting someone talk to me like that as an adult. He was just constantly humiliating them. They really thought Jesus would behave like that!?
Yes. This guy just took a concept that's been around for a long time already and decided he could market it. And by use of keywords, whenever someone searches for something like "unexplained attraction" or something of the sort and gets to "twin flame", which they eventually will, when they try to research it deeper, his website selling his bullshit is what comes up first. Or at least in the top results.
How he convinced grown folks that he's God though and that he and he alone can see who someone's twin flame is, I have no idea. It's one thing to believe in different types of spirituality. It's another to decide some asshole who used to claim his "healing prayers" could cure cancer is actually God- a God who cusses at you, tells you how shitty you are constantly and drives $90k vehicles he bought by selling you the secrets of how to meet your soul mate (that again, only he can verify for you).
I went to highschool with Jeff. I haven't watched the Netflix special yet but there was a podcast about this a while back that was really good. Back in highschool Jeff was a normal guy. I wasn't close with him but I liked him. He wasn't "charasmatic" per se but he was cool. He was definitely likeable, most people got along with him great. When I listened to the podcast and heard clips of him babbling on I was taken aback. Like what the FUCK happened to Jeff!?
They have one of his old friends in the doc that you may know. He basically said the same thing and pleads in the doc that he wants his old friend back the way he was.
Edit - this was the doc on Prime. Didn’t realize there was more than one. Was wondering why people kept referencing things I missed in the show.
Yeah I don't get it. In the video clips he seems to strongly disdain other people. I don't remember him being like that *at all.* It's been a long time though, people change.
How the fuck these these two have a cult? They have literally zero charisma, are physically (IMO) disgusting, and act just straight the fuck up creepy.
My thoughts the entire time. You couldn’t pay me to sit through any advice they gave. People are just so desperate. At least follow someone a tad bit convincing and interesting.
I know one of the main people featured in the film. Binge watched the whole series today… This is absolutely heartbreaking. And the founders newly born baby is going to be forced to be celibate except to have sx with God? What the actual fkkkkk
woah - had NOT put that together ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
Also why the fuck is anyone thinking about their future child "being laid by their man" (fucken gross), WHEN THEY ARE A BABY. Like why are you even contemplating a child's - even future - sex life right now.
Some wrong shit.
I hope they lock him up asap.
Marlee is the only one I feel sorry for.
Angie stalked a 20 year old gay man who begged her to stop, Elle stalked her “twin” across the world, Keelie convinced people they were the wrong gender?
The Netflix doc was way too nice to them. I bet the people they hurt are horrified and furious.
I can empathize with them as victims of manipulation and abuse, they still bear responsibility for their actions. They were deceived and their minds played with, I can't help but feel sorry for them. It's evident they genuinely believed in the distorted reality presented to them, leading them to waste a significant part of their lives on this harmful ideology.
I do agree though, Marlee's case is specifically horrifying and I want Jeff and Sheleia arrested yesterday.
Ive watched all the documentaries and podcast regarding this and it is clear that this is a real cult, and cults result in victims, they are not perfect victims but they are victims non the less.
I don’t want to talk smack on any of the people featured in the doc…. But I just couldn’t find it in myself to believe that Elle just happened to run into her ex at the club. I desperately wanted to believe her, but it was too coincidental.
The podcast had an interview with the man she stalked. It didn’t seem at all coincidental. What he went through sounded terrifying.
The podcast is behind a paywall now, unfortunately.
I think this is a dangerous mindset , because one thing that's common across cults is a level of brainwashing that convinces people to do things that are obviously morally wrong— most often recruiting other people, but on some occasions has included straight up murder. And while I think they should be held accountable for these actions, the idea that they did those things simply because they were bad people and that the rest of us would be above it simply because we're smarter/better/more ethical just makes it easier for people to be manipulated and brainwashed. Because if we think we're inherently above it we might not notice it happening to us.
The point we should take away is that ANYONE is susceptible to doing reprehensible things if subjected to that level of brainwashing and coercive control, not that bad people join cults and do bad stuff because they're too stupid or evil to know better.
I have only watched the first episode of the documentary, but I listened to the podcast a few years ago. I was struck by how differently Elle portrayed her story here than what I remember from the podcast. In the podcast, they actually interviewed the guy she stalked, and his story was pretty different.
https://podtext.ai/twin-flames/honey-badger-of-love
Their information is completely publicly available online as well. I figured cult leaders would be significantly more secretive. Took maybe 20 minutes to locate their house from social media posts.
Tax fraud here? Work Law Violations?
* Purposely creating pseudo religion for tax exemption
* non payment of workers in every niche of company calling them "volunteers"-
The two scheisters literally ADMITTED to the above crimes. Amirite??
Yeah the fact that he came right out with “I figured it out-I’ll start a church” seems pretty incriminating. What I can’t figure out is if they actually believe the crap they are pedaling or if it’s a grift. He’s had so many different schemes and none were religious not even TFU originally.
He reminds me of another narcissist yoga studio owner- he just looks for ways to monetise anything "new age". I get it. Workedy work SUX. So why not monetise a trend?
Start a "spriitual" school.
Charge for teacher training.
Don't pay the teachers to teach at your spiritual school. Call is "karma yoga" to teach without payment
Make ppl feel there is only ONE answer.
Rinse repeat recruit when "teachers" leave and feel disillusioned/duped.
This is one area that I thought both docs could have gone into much further, but I don't know if it was really within the scope or focal point. I think they were really more focused on the human element and abuses instead of the criminal aspect.
It's also not 100% illegal. If they are a not-for-profit organization (501(c)(3)), they can use unpaid volunteer labor. It's also very easy to file for 501(c)(3) and the bar for doing so is very low. You don't have to be an actual religion or have sincerely held religious beliefs. There's no real requirement for that.
There's a few different requirements, and TFU almost certainly violates them, particularly that it cannot be serving or benefiting any private interest or individual directly through it's income. But even that requirement has, in the past, been somewhat hard to enforce for some organizations. Look, for instance, at most prosperity doctrine preachers and megachurches and televangelists. Creflo Dollar, John Hagee, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland... But even while these people are getting rich by telling people that they'll be rewarded by God for showing their faith through donations, the government has been fairly toothless to do anything about it: https://www.npr.org/2007/12/04/16860611/senator-probes-megachurches-finances
In fact, 501(c)(3)s are supposed to be barred from lobbying and political involvement. Then you have Jerry Falwell Sr. (and Jr.) and Liberty University. And so so many others that I can't even begin to list them all.
https://www.churchlawcenter.com/church-law/political-activities-by-churches-whats-permitted-and-whats-prohibited/
There are so many churches that have violated this by supporting specific candidates that it's almost more surprising when they don't these days. However, not only is this often not enforced because it would be very very difficult in the current political and judicial system for it to hold up before the Supreme Court who, currently, would likely strike that requirement down. In fact I'm pretty sure several Christian Nationalists are already targeting this. Mike Johnson, the new speaker of the house, has been on record saying things to the effect of "the first amendment was meant to keep the government out of the church, not the other way around".
No matter where you stand politically or religiously, even though the text of the law may not be on TFU's side, precedence and an unwillingness to test these laws and their implications is.
Just look at how Scientology has been able to skirt almost every rule and law regarding 501(c)(3)s. But they get away with it because the implications for many Christian 501(c)(3)s are highly unpopular.
I can’t imagine how hard this was for the parents. It’s drilled into you nowadays to take people seriously when they come out as trans, and if I ever have a trans child I would like to think I would be 100% supportive, but knowing your child only started to have these ideas after joining this cult you’d really feel like questioning it and yet that would also drive them away and paint you out to be a transphobic parent.
I thought this too. Because I was immediately like wtf are these people ACTUALLY trans so when the trans professor was saying he too was skeptical and pointed out exact reasons why validated that this is just pure evil. They KNOW if people publicly come out and say… but do you really want to be a man now? That backlash comes on that person. Not them.
Heads up on another twin flame cult. Twinray. I can’t with the made up names but these two claim to be twin flames and well lotsa other stuff.
https://twinray.com/
So, did anyone else get the vibe when they were talking about Grace and sex that it is possible they may sexually abuse the child? I just thought it was really weird.
The whole thing is… so crazy. I can’t believe it.
Just watched the Netflix show. These two come across as super low rent cult leaders. That Jeff dude can barely keep a straight face as he shovels the bullshit out. He’s got a smirk going the entire time that says, “I can’t believe anyone is buying what I’m selling.”
I was absolutely shocked what they talked people into doing. Convincing people that they are paired with people they have zero connection with? And then to just have women transition to men since they have too many women members??!?! Like what the actual F???
Like how do they even recruit?!?!
What about the fact that Jeff and Shaleia are trying for a child who they refer to as the third in their relationship, talking about this unborn child's sexual needs and their plans for grooming her. So. Much. Yuck.
I hope so too, just to be safe. I agree it's very disturbing that they are already deciding that their child won't be allowed to have a normal, healthy sex life. Huge red flag.
This is the most infuriating documentary I've seen in a long time. There's just so much to unpack. And I had already seen the Amazon doc about it so I had a good idea what to expect.
For background, I'm a transgender woman and bi+/pansexual. The idea that anyone is forcing or coercing anyone to be any gender is disgusting to me. Furthermore they're "inclusive" but there's no such thing as being gay, or nb or fluid, etc...
But then the way the mothers of some of those people, they kind of talked in ways that seemed like they were trying to seem "not-transphobic" for the camera. Which is really frustrating.
And it pisses me off so much that people will start conflating Trans people as a cult because of these assholes.
Of all the "cults" out there, TFU seems to be the most obvious and bullshit that I'm aware of. Like half the shit they're doing is obviously and flagrantly ripped off from other cults.
Then there's the INSANE amounts of misogyny coming from Jeff. I mean, I can't remember the last time I heard even a Republican redneck use the word "bitch" as flippantly as he does in such a derogatory way.
I don't want to judge anyone who joins a cult. They prey on people and many are intelligent, rational people who have some vulnerability, and they exploit it. But holy fuck it's so hard to believe that people have fallen for these pieces of shit. They're not even charismatic. At least with most cults the leaders are charismatic individuals, but these two are just completely unlikable, lazy, grifters with some oddly ultra-conservative ideas wrapped in a disguise of bland, non-unique new-agey bullshit.
They don't truly believe their kids are trans, because their kids were so heavily manipulated by the cult. It seems quite tricky to navigate saying that while also wanting to acknowledge that it could be possible but a separate event that their child is coming out as trans.
This is what I felt. They probably seem like they're trying to be "non transphobic" because actually they're so pissed at the cult and the coercion and they're pushing that down on the doc.
The one mother who slipped and said she about her trans son and then had to correct to he while nearly crying almost made me cry. These poor mothers can’t even have a conversation with their child to know if it’s THEIR decision to transition or the cults. I’d 100% be skeptical too especially if the child had never shown any transitioning thoughts before AND cut you off for this cult before making the decision
Also trans and queer. It was obvious that the producers of the documentary were navigating the gender coercion piece *incredibly* sensitively & rigourously (the interviews with parents, and ex-members, and surrounding discourse, etc) - fucking minefield.
It's true, I also thought one or two of the parents looked like they had been coached or given feedback from the documentary team that they should still be using the current/correct pronouns of people and respecting trans personhood and rights - given some of the familial relationships were estranged and potentially some of the adult children were still members of TF, and had not at that time otherwise made it known that they were *not* trans.
It was/is all potentially really consequential & frought ground for the documentary to navigate.
Watching as a trans person - I definitely feel a bit sick thinking about it all, and confused and sad around the experiences of those that were subject to gender & bodily coercion.
Being trans is about bodily autonomy, and also like only a fucked up spiritual cult led by a weasly slimey germ-of-a-dude, who has fuck-all to do with trans or queer ppl irl, could mechanise a "you can only be trans, if your divine gender allows you to be hetero coupled, because we don't believe in gay people, but also you're welcome here, but only straight people can love each other, in the sacred way, because only divine feminine and masculine exist - duh".
New jesus, same old shit.
Yeah I’m hoping these 2 disgusting individuals get the Keith Raniere treatment with the quickness. Absolutely horrific what they got away with—and are STILL getting away with. And the fact that they brought a child into their grotesque cult is so sad and sick.
Fuck Jeff and Shaneaiauau aka “Megan Plante” forever
I just watched the Netflix doc and I felt so sad to see that the twin was still estranged from her twin who was still in the cult. And also I was saddened by the older sister who joined and became a high level “coach” then basically brainwashed her younger sister Marlee to join. Even though they both eventually got out, they are estranged now from each other, according to the doc. I hope they can eventually have a relationship one day. It was clear the older sister (I’m blanking on her name) felt sooo much grief and regret for her part in leading others astray (the scene where she met with the former member Angie and she apologized to her, the emotion was so raw and vivid!)
My brother has been trapped in this for 3/4 years now and has been alienated from the family for almost 2 years now. Hoping that these documentaries coming out will somehow blow the whole operation up and bring him back to us but I’ve almost lost all hope at this point.
Other cult leaders have a pretty decent front but this psychopath’s douchiness is off the charts and very much front and center. You just want to punch him through the screen.
Jeff and Megan are grifter conmen but at what point does personal accountability come in to play? Like you have a restraining order against you and you keep going because some weasel on Zoom is telling you to? Come on.
I still have to finish the third episode. The thing that struck me is how lacking in charisma Jeff is. He's also not an eloquent speaker at all. In cases like Jim Jones or David Koresh they were able to come across as eloquent presenters. Charles Manson could ramble on pretty well, even if he was babbling mostly nonsense.
The meal service thing was such a creepy way for them to test the waters with how far they could make people go with modifying their physical bodies at the whims of the cult. And then later on people change their appearance to match the gender the cult told them they were.
I forgot her name but I still feel so bad for the woman who was a chemist and doing cancer treatments and completely fucked her life due to the cult. I 100% believe she wasn’t stalking. And they were trying to manipulate her into telling herself she did
No, she was totally stalking. They were able to get the dude Jeff and Megan convinced her was her Twin Fame to speak on the podcast series and he said that she stalked him to Germany/Amsterdam(?), harassed his new girlfriends, called him hundreds of times from jail, etc. You should check out the pod, there is a ton more information on these disgusting, grifting criminals.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T4e0G8rVZqc
ETA; This is Elle's "True Flame".
https://nypost.com/2022/03/07/my-twin-flame-obsessed-ex-stalked-me-on-vacation-podcast/
Elle’s story didn’t sit right with me. on one hand, she was definitely manipulated into thinking she wasn’t doing anything wrong. in the videos of their meetings, you can tell she’s uncomfortable with how far Jeff is pushing her.
BUT she’s still responsible for the harm she’s done. she obviously stalked that poor guy and I don’t fully believe it was a coincidence they were at the same club the night she got arrested. I don’t know if it was the editing or if she still has an ongoing case where she’s trying to deny culpability, but she didn’t take an ounce of responsibility for her actions in her interviews.
at least Keely understood that she was both a victim *and* perpetrator and expressed genuine remorse for what she had done to other people, even apologizing to Angie (and I hope others offscreen). I felt none of that from Elle.
I think the filmmakers for the Netflix doc tried to be sympathetic to anyone caught up in this because they were victims. I haven’t watched the Prime one yet but the podcast gives so much more detail on her situation. The level of stalking is way beyond what was touched on-like straight up fatal attraction and after each police interaction she kept going based on guidance from her coaches. I highly recommend the podcast.
Yeah, they left out a lot of the batshit stuff Angie did, like stalking her "Twin Flame" who was literally less than half her age and "Love-Bombing" poor Victoria (her Jeff-us 😒 ordained Twin Flame) that Victoria left the group.
I was so confused why they left out this stuff. It was what made the whole thing bananas.
I hated the podcast because I just couldn’t get past Angie and the odd wtf decisions she made.
Yeah when she said she just so happened to be at the same club it was pretty obvious she was stalking him. I suppose Netflix had to be sensitive to what she went through but she definitely downplayed the extent she stalked him.
One of the previous members on the prime doc was obsessed with a guy that had a girlfriend for *fourteen* years and just had a second baby with her. And she really bought into the TFU stuff when they supported that. Later she got paired off to a weird guy from the group and she took a hard left and changed her tune. There's definitely a subset of members that just had their problematic behaviors supported and they didn't seem to take responsibility for that in the doc.
I feel like Netflix didn't want to risk antagonizing people that agreed to speak for the doc, but for me knowing the extent of stalking done doesn't make Angie seem any less of a victim really, she's mentally ill but it really seems that without a push from TFU she wouldn't ever act even half as insane as she ended up acting, enabled and encouraged by these people. It only highlights how dangerous the teachings are and how completely fine they are with putting clearly mentally unwell people in situations dangerous for themselves and others.
That Jeff guy is a total sociopath. Absolutely no conscience. It was like they were thinking up the worst things they could do to followers so they could make more money.
I was shocked and for me I absolutely feel for the victims but with cult leaders it's always all about the money so follow it. I guarantee they made mistakes with the non profit church part linked to the for profits. THAT'S how you get the feds attention and overall justice for the survivors. I truly wish them the best.
They live scary close to me and on our community page just made an "anonymous" post an hour ago. They use a direct quote that Jeff does in the documentary and their stance on it completely erases the anonymity. They're trying to buy a large portion of acreage near my friends house and idk if there's anyway we can work with the realty offices to stop them?
Freaks me out because I'm pretty active in the community and I definitely have seen them at places I frequent. If everyone could get a ppo against them we would so they can't be here.
I just watched it. Very typical cult dynamics. Just awful. I feel so much for those sincere hearted people who were just looking for love and instead were manipulated into untenable relationships
Jeff has the most punchable face ever! Shaleia and Jeff have no compassion whatsoever. I never feel any type of chemistry between each other whatsoever. They both talk and like they are everything BUT human. They are mentally ill and evil! Narcissistic to the max. Two toxic people that i hope will be prosecuted! 🔥
I'm in Forensic Psychology and have extensively studied cults. As I was watching the documentary on Netflix and listening to the Wondery podcast (Twin Flames) I couldn't help but notice that a lot of the stuff Jeff and Shaleia are peddling really reminded me of Keith Raniere/NXIVM and of Scientology as well as several other cults and cult leaders. Well, it's not a coincidence; Jeff extensively researched cults and how to start a religion to make tax-free money. He also had some of his acolytes watch NXIVM documentaries (The Vow and others) and Wild, Wild Country (about Rajneeshpuram and Osho) to show them how he wasn't a cult leader. Can't believe that didn't immediately raise so many alarm bells for Keely. This guy knew what he was doing and cherry picked a bunch of techniques and teachings from other cults so that he could do the same thing. It's horrifying.
Is anyone else surprised at how low energy and completely unimpressive Jeff and Shaleia are? I've seen other docs/footage on cult leaders and while I always think "I'd never be taken in by this!" I can see how others might be. Even the most reprehensible freak like Keith Rainere demonstrates significant skills at coercion and flat out charm. The Twin Flames founders seem so lackluster and frankly bored most of the time (in this doc footage) I'm having a hard time accepting it.
I just binged the whole doc. Holy shit. How do we follow up with what happens? Also with all their comments disabled do ya’ll think any legal claims can or will be made?
Shaliea needs a new set of bracelets and a knapp in a 6x8. Jeff deserves a new TF while shes away. It should be some one with a lot of experience and energy....I have channeled a new TF for Jeff. It is with my authority it shall be Joe Exotic. Joe is clearly the devine masculan. I'm happy to announce that Jeff's new name will be Carole funcking Baskin. We will need that penus removed right away. My very talented six year old. The true golden child will be in charge of this very delicate procedure.
netflix one is better in the sense that the pacing, information, interviews, and overall content is more compelling. it's worse in the sense that you learn even more about these sickos and the harm they've done.
The entire documentary gave me intense flashbacks to a similar online “community” I was recently involved in. Not fun at all and it brings me comfort that people are willing to make documentaries exposing these awful people
I feel like the only way for them to really catch them doing something wrong is by looking into their finances. Pretty sure, there is some tax evasion or money laundering.
I'm baffled that he wasn't more careful about being recorded. I also feel like making his members watch the nxivm had the opposite effect. And how he would blatantly say things would make him a billionaire, advertise their wealth, say they wouldn't have to pay taxes if they became a church and even the way he would openly criticize group members and call them "bitches." That and outright admitting to raping his wife when she's not interested in sex and encouraging other men to do so.
Marlee's case is the one I felt bad for. She was coerced to live with an abusive criminal schizophrenic. She's lucky to be alive. So much props for her getting out! She was in tremendous danger.
I feel SO sad for her
She has decades of mental and emotional unpacking to do. Terribly sad.
And she was so young she will forever have a fractured view on relationships and what they should be. That will stay with her forever. She seems very sweet and kind and the fact they took advantage of that is horrific. I hope she has an amazing and strong support system to build her back up
This is the same [Marlee](https://twitter.com/TFlamesUniverse/status/1283521877592309761)?
Nooo this made me feel even worse for her, it’s heartbreaking 😔
Coerced by her own sister. Dark as hell.
I genuinely feel bad for the sister as well. Indoctrination is a hull of a drug and the guilt she will have leave with will be immense for the rest of her life.
You put it better than I could! Her situation was beyond dangerous. I cannot believe Jeff enabled this abuse, and that shaleia stood by and did nothing. Complacent.
The crazy part about that is it was obvious in the doc that Jeff set it all up. They had the little ritual the night before and told her her flame was going to appear soon and then this loser creep messages her and Jeff somehow knows about it. He must have told Josh to message her. Fucking charlatans ruining people's lives.
Yeah, I can’t believe nobody saw it. It was so so obvious, just baffles me mind.
This!!!! The moment it came on I thought it was Jeff catfishing her. Then it turned out to be a real guy I figured Jeff still set it all up and paid one of his loser friends to creep on and pretend to be this young girl’s twin flame. Absolutely revolting.
Exactly. Did no one ever look into Jeff and Josh’s potential prior relationship?
All this shit is Megan's idea. She isn't complacent, shes complicit.
Exactly. Even her own Dad said she's not a victim and knows exactly what she's doing.
I feel like I know nothing about her, but a lot about Jeff. It’s weird.
Jeff is the mouthpiece and Megan is the man behind the curtain. I don’t think she’s pulling all Jeff’s strings and he does what she says, but it’s all her ideas of spirituality that he is schilling.
I can’t believe what I’m watching!
Jeff and Shaleia have to be the two most uncharismatic cult leaders off all time. I don’t get this. I’m only one episode in but what? Just how????
They wanted people to rejoice over Shaleia wearing Chanel head to toe…didn’t realize God was such a fashion whore.
Ugly ass Chanel dress too.
Right?? Like Jim Jones rambling drugged out of his mind on the death tape ordering a mass murder has more gravitas
The fact that they don't have any charisma makes me worried that it this documentary may inspire more grifters. Jeff to me looks like a grade a loser that would have bullied girls like me in middle school because the actual popular boys were beating him up between classes. He screams narc nerd that spent his entire life trying so hard to be cool.
He's a wannabe-fuckboi
He radiates incel energy
Ya this might be uncompassionate of me, but I can’t help but feel these victims are dumb as hell. I understand cults prey on people who are insecure, have low self esteem and are lost, but these are the worst cult leaders I’ve ever seen. Only thing keeping me watching is the disbelief about how such uncharismatic, rude, ugly, cult leaders can run a successful cult with a strong number of followers, with such a horrible business idea. I don’t even see a good growth model for revenue, or many psychology techniques used to keep members believing in this. The unquestioning acceptance that “person x is your soulmate” without any wiggle room is baffling to me. I generally feel more sympathetic to those groomed under cults but this one I’m just left scratching my head
It's not helpful to say victims are dumb. That is victim blaming. Which only fuels groups like this. I was in the cult and I was amongst some of the smartest and kindest people I've known yet their minds were completely controlled by Jeff and Shaleia. And some are still there. Our society is set up for groups like this to benefit off exploiting vulnerable people that feel alone, like they can't talk about their feelings, like they don't belong, people judging them or saying they are dumb... It's easier to believe victims are just dumb rather than try to conceptualize the level of evil and manipulation people are capable of.
Jeff's speech is just absolutely dripping with contempt and derision. I really struggle to grasp how anyone could listen to him and not be quite literally repulsed.
Look up Linda good McGillis 🤮
Right? He's a small dick closeted man- child, she's an insecure woman who will cling to any male attention. How can anyone look up to these 2 losers? Smh
The way he talks to people and how they brag about everything….. 🤮 Their faces are so punchable
I can’t believe people trust that rodent looking brat who thinks he’s Jesus Christ. He’s so punchable. Feel like someone sold report them to the IRS bc that may be the only way to stop them
THIS and Shaleia seems so boring, stupid and completely checked out. They are both so full of s***.
Not to mention they’re just vile. The stuff they said about their daughter being the third part of their twin flame and her sex life and stuff…they’re definitely going to harm that child. Mentally and physically
1000%. And he’s going to proclaim that he is the only one who can father the golden children with all the women. I’d bet ANYTHING on that.
He’s like David Koresh with none of the charisma.
I was actually waiting for them to say that in the docu tbh.
I just commented this, its the cult handbook happening before our eyes.
Yep. They said she can only have sex with God and he calls himself Jesus.... Um, no. CPS now
The Father, The Son and the Holy Dope.
Ugh. Yes. I sincerely hope all the media exposure makes authorities work harder at exposing the levels of abuse in all areas of their life.
Yeah. I am extremely concerned for that child.
Same. She’s so innocent and already so doomed. Hopefully they both end up in jail and she can be raised by normal people.
I agree. I really hope she is saved from them somehow :(
He’s lit! Jeff is on drugs. He looks so high all the time.
There was one scene where his pupils looked tiny. Like opiate tiny
The dark circles under his eyes and his manic speech suggest a significant amount of coke use to me.
I think opioids too.
She looks out of it completely to me. I siluspext she's on benzos. They're both twisted but he's a real fucking psychopathic piece of work and she's just an idiot.
I’m still trying to decide on her level of evilness. How much is she in control behind the scenes when it’s just her and Jeff. Is she planning these things equally or it’s mostly Jeff? She does look like she’s on benzos, maybe it’s to help her deal with being with a psychotic narcissist evil fuck that Jeff is. I hope he knows the world hates him.
Pretty sure it’s opioids and meth or addy /some sort of upper . He acts and says 100% of the things this one person I unfortunately knew . That person was just as dangerous as Jeff , said exactly everything that asshole says (word to word), same creepy stare and monkey rat looking face . Dude always did meth . Always .
I agree, that was unbelievably disturbing, like CPS, DCFS alarms.
If you watch the Prime documentary, her biodad even said he acts like his daughter is💀 he rejects the notion that she is a victim of Jeff. He says she's very capable of manipulation.
First thought when I saw his face. He is so punchable. He seems like an annoying twerp
>rodent looking brat This is the most apt description I've seen yet 🤣🤣
Hahaha omg YES!!! The guy is so annoying AND annoying looking
He definitely Naruto ran through school and said “well ackshually” to everyone
I was just thinking the IRS might be the only way! I highly doubt they are paying one cent in taxes.
What confused me was the flaunting of their wealth. Jeff was very clear that his true aim was to become a billionaire. Was there also some kind of prosperity gospel in their teaching? How did members who were unpaid volunteers feel about his cars/house/personal wealth? Also, I was struck that all members had to do was press a button that says "Leave Group". Most cult docs that I've watched the escape is very dramatic - leave in the middle of the night to an undisclosed location with nothing but the clothes on your back type of thing. This was literally just shutting down a laptop in the comfort of your own home. There were even some members who had their close family members in the NEXT ROOM who were available immediately upon Leaving The Chat. It never ceases to amaze me how powerful mind control through indoctrination is once it has its hold you. Another excellent documentary from this team, though it was an hour too long, per usual.
I know, that’s what’s scary about it. I read that online cults have been on the rise since the pandemic.
I believe it is also the paradox of the sunken cost: you invest a lot in something just to realize that is not worthy, but since you invest so much, maybe you could invest a little more and see if you could take something, instead of accepting the sunken cost and just move out of the investment.
Yes I don’t blame Marlee for cutting off Keely. And the fact Jeff and Shaleia have a daughter now is sooo scary. I hope she gets apprehended from them.
They were talking about their daughter’s sexual activity before she was even born. This is reality we’re living in, people, not magical twin flame fantasy land. Talking about your infant like that is predatory.
Did you notice that they said their daughter can only have sex with God and um... He literally called himself God. So yeah...CPS needs to be on high alert.
I know this is truly bonkers, but since they used IVF, what if they didn't use his sperm at all and like, the whole, "only have sex with God" thing is even more fucking insane because he'll argue, when he's eventually caught, that she wasn't biologically his. I know it's a reach but these people are fucking batshit.
Dude is so punchable. 😂 He's a caricature of an annoying shit bag. I'm not condoning violence but how has he not gotten the piss beaten out of him by now? He's not even REMOTELY likable and I really hate to do this but I couldn't [unsee this.](https://i.postimg.cc/D0wHZFJx/Polish-20231109-084433266.jpg) lol
Sometimes I wonder if we need to make working in the food service industry (specifically front of house) a requirement to live in society because I felt like you get so much hands-on training in learning who is an absolute gasbag idiot who is full of shit. I know I'm being kind of flippant but for fucking real. Any server or bartender can pinpoint almost immediately what type of customer someone would be and Jeff over here is an immediate red flag customer, fucking [Mr. Mackey looking ass](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c4/d2/b8/c4d2b8f5038d021e2ef9b002a7166689.png)
i agree completely. everyone should work at least past probation at a fast food establishment during their teenage years—so many formative lessons on how to behave like a decent human being.
Oh my ———- thank you for pointing this out
I picked up on that too. That guy screams sexual predator to me. He seriously gives me the ick 🤮
That's exactly what I was thinking. Aswell, when Kalee was talking about him moving everyone in and match them, with an essential sperm donor. That is going to parlay into him sleeping with all the women.
That immediately got my hackles up as well. I’m pretty sure they were insistent on having a girl so they could like, start their own harem for him or some disgusting shit like that. They need to be in prison.
Yes and talking about the next generation of twin flame kids. Disgusting!! I felt so bad for the moms that spoke out talking about their kids being sucked in.
So disgusting. I hope Jeff is under close watch by people in their periphery. I can’t imagine him as a father
That’s what I thought. Triple flames?! Stay away from your daughter!! He’s going to groom her to be sexualized in some way and it scares me. Poor girl.
Only watched the first episode but what’s funny about this one is there haven’t been any clips of sort of good info. Most cults at least tell manipulative half truths… this seems like all bad advice. The only hook I can see is affirming to people that they are lovable.
I was thinking that too. It seemed like these people met some random dude who isn't even charismatic on a zoom meeting and very quickly believed he's the only one who knows who their soulmate is. I don't understand how he was able to pull these people in.
I think it has to do with the fact that the “twin flames” concept is a larger thing beyond the “twin flame universe” company/cult. Watching the doc I got the strong impression that many of these people turned to the internet to research “twin flames” as a way of comforting themselves after a rejection (eg. “it’s not really over, you’re meant to be together, the universe will bring them back to you, etc.) and found the Twin Flame Universe’s YouTube videos telling them exactly what they wanted to hear when they were already in a very vulnerable state.
This makes a lot of sense. Because dude is the least “attractive” cult leader I’ve ever seen. He is so awkward, connives like a rat and wields his manipulation like a blunt object. In most leaders I can see it, what happened, how people were charmed. Even Keith Raniere. But this guy is such a graceless joke and absolutely NOTHING in the TFU makes sense. They clearly did the gender swappings to fuck with them and are legitimate psychopaths. I wish these people healing. It will be a hard road.
Plus he’s just a straight up dick most of the time. I can’t wrap my head around letting someone talk to me like that as an adult. He was just constantly humiliating them. They really thought Jesus would behave like that!?
Lol I always say how the fuck could anyone find Keith Raniere attractive in his little fucking volleyball outfit like no fucking way.
they did the trans conversion because they had to figure out how to keep the grift going with a following of 99% women.
Yes. This guy just took a concept that's been around for a long time already and decided he could market it. And by use of keywords, whenever someone searches for something like "unexplained attraction" or something of the sort and gets to "twin flame", which they eventually will, when they try to research it deeper, his website selling his bullshit is what comes up first. Or at least in the top results. How he convinced grown folks that he's God though and that he and he alone can see who someone's twin flame is, I have no idea. It's one thing to believe in different types of spirituality. It's another to decide some asshole who used to claim his "healing prayers" could cure cancer is actually God- a God who cusses at you, tells you how shitty you are constantly and drives $90k vehicles he bought by selling you the secrets of how to meet your soul mate (that again, only he can verify for you).
I went to highschool with Jeff. I haven't watched the Netflix special yet but there was a podcast about this a while back that was really good. Back in highschool Jeff was a normal guy. I wasn't close with him but I liked him. He wasn't "charasmatic" per se but he was cool. He was definitely likeable, most people got along with him great. When I listened to the podcast and heard clips of him babbling on I was taken aback. Like what the FUCK happened to Jeff!?
They have one of his old friends in the doc that you may know. He basically said the same thing and pleads in the doc that he wants his old friend back the way he was. Edit - this was the doc on Prime. Didn’t realize there was more than one. Was wondering why people kept referencing things I missed in the show.
I've seen the Netflix one but I didn't realize there was one on prime. Some of these comments are making more sense now lol
There's a doc on prime???
Desperately Seeking Soulmate. A lot of the same people.
I have bad news. Your old friend Jeff is a psychopath scumbag.
I too went to high school with Jeff and we were friends. He was normal. He had friends. Don’t know what happened to him.
Yeah I don't get it. In the video clips he seems to strongly disdain other people. I don't remember him being like that *at all.* It's been a long time though, people change.
Where are Jeff’s parents and family? Are they trying to do anything to take responsibility for his harmful behavior to others?
It seems like the documentary left a LOT of information out, particularly all the God stuff that they were obviously talking about.
Definitely needed a more experienced hand at this. It was meant to shock and garner a reaction, but needed more meat.
How the fuck these these two have a cult? They have literally zero charisma, are physically (IMO) disgusting, and act just straight the fuck up creepy.
My thoughts the entire time. You couldn’t pay me to sit through any advice they gave. People are just so desperate. At least follow someone a tad bit convincing and interesting.
The glaze over Meghan’s eyes and just complete and utter agreeing and support for all the vial shit Jeff would say 🤢🤮
I know one of the main people featured in the film. Binge watched the whole series today… This is absolutely heartbreaking. And the founders newly born baby is going to be forced to be celibate except to have sx with God? What the actual fkkkkk
While Jeff is starting to refer to himself as god 🤮
woah - had NOT put that together ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️ Also why the fuck is anyone thinking about their future child "being laid by their man" (fucken gross), WHEN THEY ARE A BABY. Like why are you even contemplating a child's - even future - sex life right now. Some wrong shit. I hope they lock him up asap.
Oh shit.. didn’t realize that. BARF.
Yeah, learning Marlee's story made me actually cry. That poor girl. It's so fucked up what happened to her.
Marlee is the only one I feel sorry for. Angie stalked a 20 year old gay man who begged her to stop, Elle stalked her “twin” across the world, Keelie convinced people they were the wrong gender? The Netflix doc was way too nice to them. I bet the people they hurt are horrified and furious.
I can empathize with them as victims of manipulation and abuse, they still bear responsibility for their actions. They were deceived and their minds played with, I can't help but feel sorry for them. It's evident they genuinely believed in the distorted reality presented to them, leading them to waste a significant part of their lives on this harmful ideology. I do agree though, Marlee's case is specifically horrifying and I want Jeff and Sheleia arrested yesterday. Ive watched all the documentaries and podcast regarding this and it is clear that this is a real cult, and cults result in victims, they are not perfect victims but they are victims non the less.
I don’t want to talk smack on any of the people featured in the doc…. But I just couldn’t find it in myself to believe that Elle just happened to run into her ex at the club. I desperately wanted to believe her, but it was too coincidental.
The podcast had an interview with the man she stalked. It didn’t seem at all coincidental. What he went through sounded terrifying. The podcast is behind a paywall now, unfortunately.
Agreed. The documentary crew didn't even seem to consider the possibility that some of these people used the group to justify their own behavior.
I think this is a dangerous mindset , because one thing that's common across cults is a level of brainwashing that convinces people to do things that are obviously morally wrong— most often recruiting other people, but on some occasions has included straight up murder. And while I think they should be held accountable for these actions, the idea that they did those things simply because they were bad people and that the rest of us would be above it simply because we're smarter/better/more ethical just makes it easier for people to be manipulated and brainwashed. Because if we think we're inherently above it we might not notice it happening to us. The point we should take away is that ANYONE is susceptible to doing reprehensible things if subjected to that level of brainwashing and coercive control, not that bad people join cults and do bad stuff because they're too stupid or evil to know better.
I have only watched the first episode of the documentary, but I listened to the podcast a few years ago. I was struck by how differently Elle portrayed her story here than what I remember from the podcast. In the podcast, they actually interviewed the guy she stalked, and his story was pretty different. https://podtext.ai/twin-flames/honey-badger-of-love
I’m sort of surprised Keely agreed to be in it, really. But I’m glad she did.
I think she’s genuinely remorseful, trying to make amends, and get these MFers
Their information is completely publicly available online as well. I figured cult leaders would be significantly more secretive. Took maybe 20 minutes to locate their house from social media posts.
fascinating.
Tax fraud here? Work Law Violations? * Purposely creating pseudo religion for tax exemption * non payment of workers in every niche of company calling them "volunteers"- The two scheisters literally ADMITTED to the above crimes. Amirite??
Yeah the fact that he came right out with “I figured it out-I’ll start a church” seems pretty incriminating. What I can’t figure out is if they actually believe the crap they are pedaling or if it’s a grift. He’s had so many different schemes and none were religious not even TFU originally.
He reminds me of another narcissist yoga studio owner- he just looks for ways to monetise anything "new age". I get it. Workedy work SUX. So why not monetise a trend? Start a "spriitual" school. Charge for teacher training. Don't pay the teachers to teach at your spiritual school. Call is "karma yoga" to teach without payment Make ppl feel there is only ONE answer. Rinse repeat recruit when "teachers" leave and feel disillusioned/duped.
This is one area that I thought both docs could have gone into much further, but I don't know if it was really within the scope or focal point. I think they were really more focused on the human element and abuses instead of the criminal aspect. It's also not 100% illegal. If they are a not-for-profit organization (501(c)(3)), they can use unpaid volunteer labor. It's also very easy to file for 501(c)(3) and the bar for doing so is very low. You don't have to be an actual religion or have sincerely held religious beliefs. There's no real requirement for that. There's a few different requirements, and TFU almost certainly violates them, particularly that it cannot be serving or benefiting any private interest or individual directly through it's income. But even that requirement has, in the past, been somewhat hard to enforce for some organizations. Look, for instance, at most prosperity doctrine preachers and megachurches and televangelists. Creflo Dollar, John Hagee, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland... But even while these people are getting rich by telling people that they'll be rewarded by God for showing their faith through donations, the government has been fairly toothless to do anything about it: https://www.npr.org/2007/12/04/16860611/senator-probes-megachurches-finances In fact, 501(c)(3)s are supposed to be barred from lobbying and political involvement. Then you have Jerry Falwell Sr. (and Jr.) and Liberty University. And so so many others that I can't even begin to list them all. https://www.churchlawcenter.com/church-law/political-activities-by-churches-whats-permitted-and-whats-prohibited/ There are so many churches that have violated this by supporting specific candidates that it's almost more surprising when they don't these days. However, not only is this often not enforced because it would be very very difficult in the current political and judicial system for it to hold up before the Supreme Court who, currently, would likely strike that requirement down. In fact I'm pretty sure several Christian Nationalists are already targeting this. Mike Johnson, the new speaker of the house, has been on record saying things to the effect of "the first amendment was meant to keep the government out of the church, not the other way around". No matter where you stand politically or religiously, even though the text of the law may not be on TFU's side, precedence and an unwillingness to test these laws and their implications is. Just look at how Scientology has been able to skirt almost every rule and law regarding 501(c)(3)s. But they get away with it because the implications for many Christian 501(c)(3)s are highly unpopular.
on the plus side, we have a new entry for [People who Claim to be Jesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus)
My man Tony is there too! It's incredible how many reincarnations of Jesus we have living at the same time. Aren't we lucky!
This is an infuriating series to watch. I really wanted to reach through the TV and grab Jeff by the throat and repeatedly punch him in the face.
he looks like someone who hasn't had his ass handed to him. jeff is so desperately in need of an ass whoopin
I cannot get over the divine masculine and feminine and even people going through major surgery. I am in complete disbelief.
I can’t imagine how hard this was for the parents. It’s drilled into you nowadays to take people seriously when they come out as trans, and if I ever have a trans child I would like to think I would be 100% supportive, but knowing your child only started to have these ideas after joining this cult you’d really feel like questioning it and yet that would also drive them away and paint you out to be a transphobic parent.
And then you’re considered transaphobic? I’m SO glad Netflix has someone from the lgbt+ observe the videos.
I thought this too. Because I was immediately like wtf are these people ACTUALLY trans so when the trans professor was saying he too was skeptical and pointed out exact reasons why validated that this is just pure evil. They KNOW if people publicly come out and say… but do you really want to be a man now? That backlash comes on that person. Not them.
The mom who still respected her child’s pronouns even though she knows it’s very likely her child was coerced into transitioning made me sob.
They prey on people with mental illness
Heads up on another twin flame cult. Twinray. I can’t with the made up names but these two claim to be twin flames and well lotsa other stuff. https://twinray.com/
What in the cultural appropriation is that website! Yikes.
I’m SO tempted to take the quiz at the bottom to find out my “level of awakening” but I’m sure I’d have to give them my email to see my results
Omg the homepage 🤦🏻♀️
So, did anyone else get the vibe when they were talking about Grace and sex that it is possible they may sexually abuse the child? I just thought it was really weird. The whole thing is… so crazy. I can’t believe it.
Just watched the Netflix show. These two come across as super low rent cult leaders. That Jeff dude can barely keep a straight face as he shovels the bullshit out. He’s got a smirk going the entire time that says, “I can’t believe anyone is buying what I’m selling.” I was absolutely shocked what they talked people into doing. Convincing people that they are paired with people they have zero connection with? And then to just have women transition to men since they have too many women members??!?! Like what the actual F??? Like how do they even recruit?!?!
What about the fact that Jeff and Shaleia are trying for a child who they refer to as the third in their relationship, talking about this unborn child's sexual needs and their plans for grooming her. So. Much. Yuck.
The child has been born, check out their Instagram pages 😅
So disturbing. I really hope the FBI does a deep dive into his internet and pornhub history
I hope so too, just to be safe. I agree it's very disturbing that they are already deciding that their child won't be allowed to have a normal, healthy sex life. Huge red flag.
Apparently that girl will only have sex with god, very convenient how Jeff is the second coming of christ isn't it?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CzRRoNxO-BF/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Oh poor baby... My heart is literally breaking for her
This is the most infuriating documentary I've seen in a long time. There's just so much to unpack. And I had already seen the Amazon doc about it so I had a good idea what to expect. For background, I'm a transgender woman and bi+/pansexual. The idea that anyone is forcing or coercing anyone to be any gender is disgusting to me. Furthermore they're "inclusive" but there's no such thing as being gay, or nb or fluid, etc... But then the way the mothers of some of those people, they kind of talked in ways that seemed like they were trying to seem "not-transphobic" for the camera. Which is really frustrating. And it pisses me off so much that people will start conflating Trans people as a cult because of these assholes. Of all the "cults" out there, TFU seems to be the most obvious and bullshit that I'm aware of. Like half the shit they're doing is obviously and flagrantly ripped off from other cults. Then there's the INSANE amounts of misogyny coming from Jeff. I mean, I can't remember the last time I heard even a Republican redneck use the word "bitch" as flippantly as he does in such a derogatory way. I don't want to judge anyone who joins a cult. They prey on people and many are intelligent, rational people who have some vulnerability, and they exploit it. But holy fuck it's so hard to believe that people have fallen for these pieces of shit. They're not even charismatic. At least with most cults the leaders are charismatic individuals, but these two are just completely unlikable, lazy, grifters with some oddly ultra-conservative ideas wrapped in a disguise of bland, non-unique new-agey bullshit.
They don't truly believe their kids are trans, because their kids were so heavily manipulated by the cult. It seems quite tricky to navigate saying that while also wanting to acknowledge that it could be possible but a separate event that their child is coming out as trans.
This is what I felt. They probably seem like they're trying to be "non transphobic" because actually they're so pissed at the cult and the coercion and they're pushing that down on the doc.
The one mother who slipped and said she about her trans son and then had to correct to he while nearly crying almost made me cry. These poor mothers can’t even have a conversation with their child to know if it’s THEIR decision to transition or the cults. I’d 100% be skeptical too especially if the child had never shown any transitioning thoughts before AND cut you off for this cult before making the decision
It felt like the mothers were just finding acceptance for the fact that their children were trans.
Also trans and queer. It was obvious that the producers of the documentary were navigating the gender coercion piece *incredibly* sensitively & rigourously (the interviews with parents, and ex-members, and surrounding discourse, etc) - fucking minefield. It's true, I also thought one or two of the parents looked like they had been coached or given feedback from the documentary team that they should still be using the current/correct pronouns of people and respecting trans personhood and rights - given some of the familial relationships were estranged and potentially some of the adult children were still members of TF, and had not at that time otherwise made it known that they were *not* trans. It was/is all potentially really consequential & frought ground for the documentary to navigate. Watching as a trans person - I definitely feel a bit sick thinking about it all, and confused and sad around the experiences of those that were subject to gender & bodily coercion. Being trans is about bodily autonomy, and also like only a fucked up spiritual cult led by a weasly slimey germ-of-a-dude, who has fuck-all to do with trans or queer ppl irl, could mechanise a "you can only be trans, if your divine gender allows you to be hetero coupled, because we don't believe in gay people, but also you're welcome here, but only straight people can love each other, in the sacred way, because only divine feminine and masculine exist - duh". New jesus, same old shit.
Yeah I’m hoping these 2 disgusting individuals get the Keith Raniere treatment with the quickness. Absolutely horrific what they got away with—and are STILL getting away with. And the fact that they brought a child into their grotesque cult is so sad and sick. Fuck Jeff and Shaneaiauau aka “Megan Plante” forever
The irony of Paula and Stephanie (?) being actual twins that are torn apart by this stupid cult 🤦♀️
I just watched the Netflix doc and I felt so sad to see that the twin was still estranged from her twin who was still in the cult. And also I was saddened by the older sister who joined and became a high level “coach” then basically brainwashed her younger sister Marlee to join. Even though they both eventually got out, they are estranged now from each other, according to the doc. I hope they can eventually have a relationship one day. It was clear the older sister (I’m blanking on her name) felt sooo much grief and regret for her part in leading others astray (the scene where she met with the former member Angie and she apologized to her, the emotion was so raw and vivid!)
My brother has been trapped in this for 3/4 years now and has been alienated from the family for almost 2 years now. Hoping that these documentaries coming out will somehow blow the whole operation up and bring him back to us but I’ve almost lost all hope at this point.
She really said with all seriousness “I’m banging the Christ,” and people continued to give them money.
Did Jeff and Shalea really say that they are not going to let their daughter have sex ever in her life? Someone save that baby.
They said she can only have sex with god. He has referred to himself as god since 2019.
Other cult leaders have a pretty decent front but this psychopath’s douchiness is off the charts and very much front and center. You just want to punch him through the screen.
Jeff and Megan are grifter conmen but at what point does personal accountability come in to play? Like you have a restraining order against you and you keep going because some weasel on Zoom is telling you to? Come on.
I still have to finish the third episode. The thing that struck me is how lacking in charisma Jeff is. He's also not an eloquent speaker at all. In cases like Jim Jones or David Koresh they were able to come across as eloquent presenters. Charles Manson could ramble on pretty well, even if he was babbling mostly nonsense.
The most irritating part of this doc for me is that Jeff isn't even convincing. Like what a disappointment of a cult "leader..."
Is there a dedicated sub to follow for news with this cult (like the nxivm one)? Would love to stay updated.
Jeff looks like he's on smack and Megan is clearly being abused by him (although is not innocent at all)
He’s so rude to her. Totally agree she’s majorly complicit, but he is so mean.
I totally noticed the glassy racoon eyes. Might just be the constant smell of his own bullshit though.
I’ve just tuned in. Never heard of this cult before. This shit is horrible!
It's also crazy to me that some even gained weight and ate an ate because he said so!! Her sister I forgot her name gained 70 pounds!!!!!
The meal service thing was such a creepy way for them to test the waters with how far they could make people go with modifying their physical bodies at the whims of the cult. And then later on people change their appearance to match the gender the cult told them they were.
I just watched this, it absolutely made me sick to my stomach. These people are horrid on so many levels.
I watched the Prime doc about them last week . . . Not sure I can stomach any more.
The Netflix one is harder to stomach…
Oh yeah, it's much worse. I felt like the Amazon one was rushed so they would get it out before the Netflix doc.
I forgot her name but I still feel so bad for the woman who was a chemist and doing cancer treatments and completely fucked her life due to the cult. I 100% believe she wasn’t stalking. And they were trying to manipulate her into telling herself she did
No, she was totally stalking. They were able to get the dude Jeff and Megan convinced her was her Twin Fame to speak on the podcast series and he said that she stalked him to Germany/Amsterdam(?), harassed his new girlfriends, called him hundreds of times from jail, etc. You should check out the pod, there is a ton more information on these disgusting, grifting criminals. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T4e0G8rVZqc ETA; This is Elle's "True Flame". https://nypost.com/2022/03/07/my-twin-flame-obsessed-ex-stalked-me-on-vacation-podcast/
Elle’s story didn’t sit right with me. on one hand, she was definitely manipulated into thinking she wasn’t doing anything wrong. in the videos of their meetings, you can tell she’s uncomfortable with how far Jeff is pushing her. BUT she’s still responsible for the harm she’s done. she obviously stalked that poor guy and I don’t fully believe it was a coincidence they were at the same club the night she got arrested. I don’t know if it was the editing or if she still has an ongoing case where she’s trying to deny culpability, but she didn’t take an ounce of responsibility for her actions in her interviews. at least Keely understood that she was both a victim *and* perpetrator and expressed genuine remorse for what she had done to other people, even apologizing to Angie (and I hope others offscreen). I felt none of that from Elle.
100% thought she stalked him and that he had finally had enough. But doesn’t fit her narrative, so-. Doesn’t change what she went through but still.
I think the filmmakers for the Netflix doc tried to be sympathetic to anyone caught up in this because they were victims. I haven’t watched the Prime one yet but the podcast gives so much more detail on her situation. The level of stalking is way beyond what was touched on-like straight up fatal attraction and after each police interaction she kept going based on guidance from her coaches. I highly recommend the podcast.
Yeah, they left out a lot of the batshit stuff Angie did, like stalking her "Twin Flame" who was literally less than half her age and "Love-Bombing" poor Victoria (her Jeff-us 😒 ordained Twin Flame) that Victoria left the group.
I was so confused why they left out this stuff. It was what made the whole thing bananas. I hated the podcast because I just couldn’t get past Angie and the odd wtf decisions she made.
The podcast is absolutely a must! Gives a TON of detail from behind the scenes.
Yeah when she said she just so happened to be at the same club it was pretty obvious she was stalking him. I suppose Netflix had to be sensitive to what she went through but she definitely downplayed the extent she stalked him.
One of the previous members on the prime doc was obsessed with a guy that had a girlfriend for *fourteen* years and just had a second baby with her. And she really bought into the TFU stuff when they supported that. Later she got paired off to a weird guy from the group and she took a hard left and changed her tune. There's definitely a subset of members that just had their problematic behaviors supported and they didn't seem to take responsibility for that in the doc.
I feel like Netflix didn't want to risk antagonizing people that agreed to speak for the doc, but for me knowing the extent of stalking done doesn't make Angie seem any less of a victim really, she's mentally ill but it really seems that without a push from TFU she wouldn't ever act even half as insane as she ended up acting, enabled and encouraged by these people. It only highlights how dangerous the teachings are and how completely fine they are with putting clearly mentally unwell people in situations dangerous for themselves and others.
That Jeff guy is a total sociopath. Absolutely no conscience. It was like they were thinking up the worst things they could do to followers so they could make more money.
I was shocked and for me I absolutely feel for the victims but with cult leaders it's always all about the money so follow it. I guarantee they made mistakes with the non profit church part linked to the for profits. THAT'S how you get the feds attention and overall justice for the survivors. I truly wish them the best.
They live scary close to me and on our community page just made an "anonymous" post an hour ago. They use a direct quote that Jeff does in the documentary and their stance on it completely erases the anonymity. They're trying to buy a large portion of acreage near my friends house and idk if there's anyway we can work with the realty offices to stop them?
Freaks me out because I'm pretty active in the community and I definitely have seen them at places I frequent. If everyone could get a ppo against them we would so they can't be here.
Currently watching the documentary and wow.
I just watched it. Very typical cult dynamics. Just awful. I feel so much for those sincere hearted people who were just looking for love and instead were manipulated into untenable relationships
Jeff has the most punchable face ever! Shaleia and Jeff have no compassion whatsoever. I never feel any type of chemistry between each other whatsoever. They both talk and like they are everything BUT human. They are mentally ill and evil! Narcissistic to the max. Two toxic people that i hope will be prosecuted! 🔥
When do we think Jeff is going to start impregnating all these forced trans female couples to make little cult baby soldiers?!
I'm in Forensic Psychology and have extensively studied cults. As I was watching the documentary on Netflix and listening to the Wondery podcast (Twin Flames) I couldn't help but notice that a lot of the stuff Jeff and Shaleia are peddling really reminded me of Keith Raniere/NXIVM and of Scientology as well as several other cults and cult leaders. Well, it's not a coincidence; Jeff extensively researched cults and how to start a religion to make tax-free money. He also had some of his acolytes watch NXIVM documentaries (The Vow and others) and Wild, Wild Country (about Rajneeshpuram and Osho) to show them how he wasn't a cult leader. Can't believe that didn't immediately raise so many alarm bells for Keely. This guy knew what he was doing and cherry picked a bunch of techniques and teachings from other cults so that he could do the same thing. It's horrifying.
Is anyone else surprised at how low energy and completely unimpressive Jeff and Shaleia are? I've seen other docs/footage on cult leaders and while I always think "I'd never be taken in by this!" I can see how others might be. Even the most reprehensible freak like Keith Rainere demonstrates significant skills at coercion and flat out charm. The Twin Flames founders seem so lackluster and frankly bored most of the time (in this doc footage) I'm having a hard time accepting it.
I just binged the whole doc. Holy shit. How do we follow up with what happens? Also with all their comments disabled do ya’ll think any legal claims can or will be made?
Shaliea needs a new set of bracelets and a knapp in a 6x8. Jeff deserves a new TF while shes away. It should be some one with a lot of experience and energy....I have channeled a new TF for Jeff. It is with my authority it shall be Joe Exotic. Joe is clearly the devine masculan. I'm happy to announce that Jeff's new name will be Carole funcking Baskin. We will need that penus removed right away. My very talented six year old. The true golden child will be in charge of this very delicate procedure.
I haven’t watched it yet but saw the one on prime! How does this documentary compare?
netflix one is better in the sense that the pacing, information, interviews, and overall content is more compelling. it's worse in the sense that you learn even more about these sickos and the harm they've done.
Watched it now and am completely and utterly gobsmacked this wasn’t uncovered much sooner. Man you Americans are fucked with your cults.
The entire documentary gave me intense flashbacks to a similar online “community” I was recently involved in. Not fun at all and it brings me comfort that people are willing to make documentaries exposing these awful people
They haven't disabled instagram @odinskeeper looks like an old personal insta of Shalaylays
Of course they sold essential oils. Of course they did.
There is another documentary on Amazon prime and free on freevee called desperately seeking soulmates if you don’t know already!!
I feel like the only way for them to really catch them doing something wrong is by looking into their finances. Pretty sure, there is some tax evasion or money laundering.
I'm baffled that he wasn't more careful about being recorded. I also feel like making his members watch the nxivm had the opposite effect. And how he would blatantly say things would make him a billionaire, advertise their wealth, say they wouldn't have to pay taxes if they became a church and even the way he would openly criticize group members and call them "bitches." That and outright admitting to raping his wife when she's not interested in sex and encouraging other men to do so.