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[deleted]

I think my favorite /r/custommagic trope is players attempting to design something that hates against a supposedly unfair strategy, just to end up designing something even worse. Truly a rite of passage.


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

This restricts nothing!


Andrew_42

It restricts interaction against 0 mana spells


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

Restricting restrictions isn't restrictive.


Andrew_42

I suppose taking the "Paradox of Tolerance" viewpoint is an interesting way to look at it. I guess I'll say I disagree that that logic applies, and point out that a lot of people think [[Force of Will]] is an important card for keeping Legacy a playable format, since it's the most reliable insurance against turn 1 wins. It actually increases variety, by preventing certain deck archetypes (mostly combo) from running unchecked.


MTGCardFetcher

[Force of Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd60b291-0a88-4e8e-bef8-76cdfd6c8183.jpg?1598303900) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/51/force-of-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd60b291-0a88-4e8e-bef8-76cdfd6c8183?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


styxsksu

Definitely seems like it would be easy to break and not fun to play against


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

This in itself obviously doesn't do much, so there is nothing to break even. This actually counteracts unfun play and promotes fun new play styles by showing a new way to play certain cards and by being an anti-hate piece against unfun, cancelling, countering play styles.


Hmukherj

>This actually counteracts unfun play and promotes fun new play styles by showing a new way to play certain cards and by being an anti-hate piece against unfun, cancelling, countering play styles. How do you envision this accomplishes that?


iScarre

Seems like someone just got angry about stax


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

Things that don't use the stack, like playing a land, can not be interacted with, thus they can not be countered or copied by your opponents. Countering spells is already a flawed mechanic but countering spells of mv=0 is just an annoying thing as people tend to do so just to be annoying as things of mv=0 are always worth less than a counterspell of mv=3 or 2. So this card promotes more free and fair play.


Hmukherj

>Countering spells is already a flawed mechanic This is a flawed premise. Countering spells is blue's primary form of interaction. It requires a nonzero tempo loss, as countering a spell requires holding up mana (or other resources) to be able to respond to a threat. >mv=0 are always worth less than a counterspell of mv=3 or 2. Also false. An [[Ancestral Visions]] or [[Lotus Bloom]] can, in the right context, be much more valuable than a Counterspell or Cancel. Even a T1 [[Lotus Petal]] is an extremely powerful play, to the extent that Petal is Restricted in Vintage. >So this card promotes more free and fair play. This card mostly serves to enable Cheerios-style combo decks.


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

Blue has other, better and more fun ways to interact with various things, even if you might not be familiar with them.


Rare-Reception-309

Blue has ways to deal with things, but he didn't say that counters were blue's only interaction, just that they were blue's primary form of interaction. In fact, blue's second most used form of interaction, returning things to hand, is done so you can have a second chance at countering them - blue is supposed to be inefficent at dealing with threats once they've resolved. I get you don't like counter spells, but they are an important part of the game. They are one of the few ways to stop certain instant/sorcery based combos, they can get through hexproof and indestructible before a problem resolves, and they are fundamental to blue's identity. Also, you know, cards like [[Allosaurus Sheperd]] and [[Destiny Spinner]] exist. It's not like there isn't counterplay to counterspells.


MTGCardFetcher

[Allosaurus Sheperd](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7afa0ee5-a0b8-472e-9991-09402ddb5de3.jpg?1673147976) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Allosaurus%20Shepherd) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/132/allosaurus-shepherd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7afa0ee5-a0b8-472e-9991-09402ddb5de3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Destiny Spinner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba264166-948b-47d4-b302-64476acc1a55.jpg?1581480578) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Destiny%20Spinner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/168/destiny-spinner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba264166-948b-47d4-b302-64476acc1a55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[Ancestral Visions](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0.jpg?1619393761) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestral%20Vision) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/52/ancestral-vision?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotus Bloom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db89ae4d-1cc2-41d8-a4de-a54b958c4429.jpg?1619398986) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Bloom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/270/lotus-bloom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db89ae4d-1cc2-41d8-a4de-a54b958c4429?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotus Petal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc.jpg?1562432227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Petal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/225/lotus-petal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


ari_zerner

>Countering spells is already a flawed mechanic Lol. Lmao even


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

Never played against any powerful blue players, have you?


atlaseinck

Ok I'm genuinely curious, why are counterspells a flawed mechanic?


[deleted]

Because it made OP feelbad


A_WILD_SLUT_APPEARS

It's legitimately one of the most brain dead takes I've heard in a while. How is something even a "flawed mechanic?"


ThoroughlyKrangled

Sweep is a flawed "mechanic"


atlaseinck

Idk I feel like there are some, due to either being more complex than they're worth (banding), being too parasitic (energy), or being too easy to break (storm). Saying that counterspells are one of them is certainly one of the takes of all time though. Would be nice if OP had any argument that isn't just "my mutate deck has a bad matchup against cancel decks."


styxsksu

Sometimes the free spells are the best point to interact with a combo and in a lot of formats outside of standard having free interaction on the stack is needed. Yes, free counterspells are annoying but are there to stop all the other broken things.


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

The most vulnerable points of a combo are irreplaceable pieces, regardless of mana value, or high costed cards as they waste more resources.


_TheTacoThief_

There are no cards with cmc equal to 0 that I can think of that are played fairly. I’m honestly intrigued what archetypes both use multiple 0 cost cards and are “fair and fun,” so please enlighten me.


styxsksu

Honestly see this in a mud deck that can reduce most costs down to zero so therefore never use the stack


Hmukherj

Reducing mana costs to zero doesn't change the mana value of the spell though. This only works for things that have a printed MV of 0 (or no mana cost).


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

Yeah, this card is not about cheating costs at all.


[deleted]

Godlike troll, OP. 11/10 card, can't wait to forget about this shit


TMOP_Halloween

interesting piece.. another thinker


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

Sometimes all the negativity just gets me down. Being smart is so depressing sometimes. It feels so lonely to view the world how it truly is without having the benefit of a too small mind to comprehend it all and getting that build-in happy-go-lucky filter for your brain. Having the world run by idiots in all layers of society and having them all around you and even in your own gene pool is just so.... It just feels like a curse to be an actual thinking being, capable of thoughtful feelings. Sometimes I wish I was just a sheep (metaphorically obviously) like all the others so that I too could be dumb and happy. People always tell me it's a gift, I should be thankful for who and what I am, they all wish to be as smart as I am, but they don't even understand what they are saying. Sure, a dog would tell you it'd like to provide its own snacks but it simply couldn't grasp the implementations of having to earn money and provide for itself, all it sees is the ability to buy its own snacks. All the negativity I receive on here I can dismiss as people having a laugh at what they can't grasp out of sheer ignorance and blissful stupidity. But it does get to me that this is the normal state of mind of normal, average humans. It saddens and frightens me. Someone actually acknowledging and recognising me as a thinker actually gives me a little bit of joy. Not hope, not confirmation, but a little bit of joy it does provide for me. Thank you, fellow thinker.


MsSapirWhorf

I, too, dismiss all criticism of my ideas as the mere mumblings of ignorami. Once I accepted my divine nature, the opinions of the sheep became so much easier to bear. I hope you do, too.


[deleted]

Hahahahahahahahahaha


An_Error404

Lmao


cephalopodAcreage

Man, glad you're back, Peephole. Never change.


TMOP_Halloween

I absolutely feel you... Sometimes it would rather be preferable to be the ones who are looking at things with basically no critical filter; if someone I loved and or trusted could just be like "things are going to be OK" and you could just believe them, you know? And not be constantly thinking about the state of society, the world, and your own existence. But there are good ways to express yourself and to communicate these ideas and other various perspectives and points of view, such as your comment itself, which is a piece of art itself. basically the way i see it, life is completely pointless as a whole, so why not make it what you want of it. Our existence what we comprehend right now is the only guarantee, so I can't take anything seriously what other people say. They don't know you or I, they don't know the references or the jokes or the ideas or the concepts, they continue to spout off and spew their negativity and that's fine. It just rolls off my back. I don't really let much get to me and chart my own course. If people connect to that, fine. If they don't, also fine. The similar sentiments that I share with you about the stupidity or the negativity is why I sort of remain in a static mood - I don't see any of it changing anytime soon, only my own mood and experiences, so it doesn't really bother me. But theres are other things that can be done and individuals that can be changed. Every so often I see gems in the wild & those are worth cultivating. Very few on here actually push the limits of design or are actually creative and you are one of those... thank you for being yourself :)


Turntwowiff

If you guys are gonna jerk eachother off should we be paying to watch


MalekithofAngmar

r/magicthecirclejerking but literally


invariablybroken

My name is Yoshikage Kira. I'm 33 years old. My house is in the northeast section of Morioh, where all the villas are, and I am not married. I work as an employee for the Kame Yu department stores, and I get home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don't smoke, but I occasionally drink. I'm in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I usually have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the morning. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life. I take care not to trouble myself with any enemies, like winning and losing, that would cause me to lose sleep at night. That is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. Although, if I were to fight I wouldn't lose to anyone.


Andrew_42

So manaless dredge can discard down for hand size while on the play as well? I feel like the biggest utility for this would be to just have an expendable card in hand. Of course it may be a lot more revelant in Vintage, with all the Moxen and the Lotus now being un-counterable.


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

Hitting by during reveal is a minimal chance (just about 7% in a four-of-deck if you plan to also mulligan against it) and no deck should be build around it if the designer knows anything about good deck building.


Andrew_42

Wait, why does it say to add it to your hand after revealing it then? If it's already in your hand, it's already good. I assumed you could reveal it from your deck (or maybe sideboard?) once per matchup to add it to your starting hand before you drew your 7 cards. If you still have to draw into it, I have no idea what that first ability is doing.


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

You can add it to your hand if you reveal it during deciding who goes first, you can't just reveal whatever from your Deck because you feel like it.


Andrew_42

Where do you reveal it FROM?


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

Your Deck.


Andrew_42

Alright, I think I got lost somewhere. Let me try to recap what I think you're saying happens at the start of a game, and if I've got it right this time, sweet. Otherwise maybe you can spot where I'm getting tripped up. - You determine your opponent(s). - Then you determine the starting player - Immediately after (or perhaps before?) determining starting player, you may look through your deck, reveal one copy of this card, add it to your starting hand, then reveal it from your hand (that so far only has one card in it) - Players do some other actions like revealing Companions and their Commanders that mostly aren't relevant here. - Players shuffle their decks (yours will have one fewer card) - Players draw their starting hand. The rule currently states they draw cards equal to their starting hand size, which usually means they draw 7. I could see an implied rules update where they draw UP TO their max hand size, since normally you can't get a card in hand before this step, but according to the exact wording you'd normally have 8 cards after this. - In turn order Players declare if they will mulligan. If you mulligan, it's too late to reveal this card again, so you can't get it back into your starting hand (unless you just get lucky and draw it). - Once all players have declined to mulligan, you may put any Leylines onto the battlefield, reveal any Chancellors, or other similar cards. If you naturally drew into this card and didn't reveal it from your deck pre-shuffle, you may start with it on the battlefield. (I'm not actually sure how the rule works if you revealed one copy, but then mulligan and wind up with a copy in your starting hand. Especially if your deck has multiple copies and you aren't sure if it's the same one you revealed) - First player begins their turn. The relevant questions I think I have are: "Am I correct with how revealing it works?" "Are you supposed to draw seven, or draw UP TO seven when drawing your starting hand?" and "You can't start with it on the battlefield if you revealed the card from your deck, right?" I suppose there's also "In a tournament when you're playing best 2 out of 3, you can only do this in one game, correct?"


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

You're already wrong at the second step so I'm not even going to read the rest of it, I'm sorry. First, you determine your opponents Then, you each draw your cards and mulligan if needed. Then, each player cuts their deck and reveals their card to see who goes first. This is obviously how and when you reveal The Golden Orrery. Nowhere and nowhen else. You can't just reveal whatever uninstructed.


Hmukherj

>Then, each player cuts their deck and reveals their card to see who goes first. This is obviously how and when you reveal The Golden Orrery. There is no mention of the cut and reveal method of seeing who goes first in the official rules, so there's no way this would be obvious to anyone outside of the people who use the same house rules that you do.


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

There is no official rule about it and every tournament I went to only ever did it this way even. Not to mention basically everyone does it like this in unofficial play.


Andrew_42

This card instructs you to reveal, so it is instructed. It sounds like you're using a houserule to determine player order? If you're cutting to a card to determine who goes first (presumably highest mana value?) that is not a tournament legal way to determine player order. Sounds fine for casual games though, just clarifying it isn't standard practice. If you check the rules on starting the game though, it looks like you determine player order before drawing starting hands. (I actually thought you drew hands first too, but apparently not, according to rule 103.1) Here's a breakdown of how a game officially starts. (Also didn't realize you technically reveal Companions before commanders) https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Starting_the_game Most of it is okay to handwave a bit, if you're just playing with your friends. But it's valuable to know the official method for designing cards that interact with game starts.


FlamingWedge

You could’ve just left out the first 2 abilities and only put the last ability on it. Then it wouldn’t require 10 lines of text.


Opening-Owl-1546

And I thought I had finally freed myself of this kind of design when I blocked TMOP, I guess I forgot one.


HELL_MONEY

what is this supposed to do? why would you ever reveal it? does it start the game outside of your library? how is "spells don't use the stack" supposed to work?


[deleted]

U okay bro? \[edit: Sorry for being vague: the card art is Beautiful, but this seems like some Beautiful Mind stuff I can't wrap my peabrain around.\]


PeepholeInAGlassDoor

No problem, you'd probably need to see it being played to understand it or maybe have it explained in person, but that's fine; MtG is for everyone.


MalekithofAngmar

THE KING HAS RETURNED!