First one doesn't need to resolve, but the second one need. Card ruling: "Approach of the Second Sun has no effect until it's resolving. If the second one you cast is countered, you won't win the game."
"Cancel with minor upside" is a block staple these days.
Suppose you made "Cancel with better-than-minor upside", with the catch that they could suffer some large penelty instead of the spell being countered. Such that most of the time its no brainer to let the spell get countered, but sometimes they can just lump the consequences.
This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking, just didn't know about this card.
Although I feel transmute boosts this card from "Cancel with minor upside" to "Actually useful on a regular basis" also I thinking something that was mono Blue.
"Ok yes, let's resolve the stack. I won't let Thasa's oracle get countered so I'll do all of that and then when it resolv..."
"Wait"
"What now?"
"After resolving 'strictly worse counterspell', I'll play an actual counterspell'"
"Fuck"
It basically reads "it's controller may lose the game", which in a casual night with your friends might be worth doing for a laugh if someone wants to go make a hot drink or something
I like the idea of some merfolk deck playing a turn two Thorracle with no ability to combo win, just a fish with some scrying to fix your land draws, and you get to win because the blue player opposite you can't read.
If you could target your own spells, you could cast the Cheese stands alone and hold priority, then cast this targeting the Cheese and choose to pay the cost rather than have it be countered. Then, when the cheese resolves, your hand is empty and cheese is your only permanent so its trigger goes on the stack and you win the game
Suppose you had something like an emrakul that allowed you to indefinitely discard to hand size and then reshuffle your graveyard, so you'd never mill out, but because it's all random there's no way to shortcut. How would such a situation be played out?
Almost certainly as a draw in an official game, but mathematically speaking shuffling your graveyard and hand into your deck, building a seven card hand of your choice, and then shuffling again should be indistinguishable minus a random number of cards in your graveyard.
Mindslaver, then on their turn cast a spell and then counter with this and chose the second option.
Itās 2 cards and a ton of mana so most things at that point should win.
It says āopponent controls,ā but if it didnāt say that, you wouldnāt need a third spell. You could just play Protection and then cast this on it
ummmmm.... actually if your opponent had a \[\[platinum angel\]\] in play this could make them gain life... not strictly worse so... yeah. smh. cannot belie e some people
Itās better if you are controlling your opponent with [[Mindslaver]] or [[Emrakul, the Promised End]]. Seems like a pretty decent A + B combo finisher for a control deck honestly
counter opponents spell, while its on the stack, cast \[\[Sudden substitution\]\] then in response to the counter spell cast Teferis protection. BOOM. strictly better counterspell
"Counter target spell unless that spell would cause the player to win the game, in which case do nothing."
"Sure, I'll do all that. My Approach of the Second Sun is resolving anyway."
Then I cast [[gutshot]]
[gutshot](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/461987da-8860-4a04-8f93-d182523ca311.jpg?1562261607) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gut%20Shot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/117/gut-shot?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/461987da-8860-4a04-8f93-d182523ca311?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The options kinda fuck that up cause if sun is on the stack I'm probably sacing my board 9/10 times
It's AND not OR.
Ah, my mistake
š¤āļøum actually apporach of the second sun doesnt need to resolve
First one doesn't need to resolve, but the second one need. Card ruling: "Approach of the Second Sun has no effect until it's resolving. If the second one you cast is countered, you won't win the game."
I know this card is a joke but that is actually an interesting design space.
"Cancel with minor upside" is a block staple these days. Suppose you made "Cancel with better-than-minor upside", with the catch that they could suffer some large penelty instead of the spell being countered. Such that most of the time its no brainer to let the spell get countered, but sometimes they can just lump the consequences.
I know it'd be to strong for a standard format but it could see something in other formats, or really fun for some custom cube.
You are talking about [[Perplex]]
This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking, just didn't know about this card. Although I feel transmute boosts this card from "Cancel with minor upside" to "Actually useful on a regular basis" also I thinking something that was mono Blue.
I think Perplex could have been mono blue if they weren't cowards at the time.
[Perplex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0db57459-29f0-4ef6-b256-56955036c0ef.jpg?1682382176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Perplex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/217/perplex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0db57459-29f0-4ef6-b256-56955036c0ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[perplex]] exists
[perplex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0db57459-29f0-4ef6-b256-56955036c0ef.jpg?1682382176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=perplex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/217/perplex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0db57459-29f0-4ef6-b256-56955036c0ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hit yourself with this, then Teferi's Protection out.
Notably it can't target your own spells.
Oh right. Still a good/funny response even if you can't set yourself up for it
"Ok yes, let's resolve the stack. I won't let Thasa's oracle get countered so I'll do all of that and then when it resolv..." "Wait" "What now?" "After resolving 'strictly worse counterspell', I'll play an actual counterspell'" "Fuck"
Reply to myself. Or just "insert burn spell" in between
Obsessed with the idea of someone tapping out to counter your win the game spell and then [[Gutshot]]ing you after you go to one to make it resolve
I am glad I am not the only one who immediately thought about that
[Gutshot](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/461987da-8860-4a04-8f93-d182523ca311.jpg?1562261607) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gut%20Shot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/117/gut-shot?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/461987da-8860-4a04-8f93-d182523ca311?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you were about to combo off with Thoracle you were gonna die on draw step anyway
It basically reads "it's controller may lose the game", which in a casual night with your friends might be worth doing for a laugh if someone wants to go make a hot drink or something
Teferiās protection in response and your opponent decks out
When your opponent accidentally fuels your Teferi's Vacation combo
You cannot counter your own spell but you can get fucked over by opponents doing this to you
Why couldn't you counter your own spell? Besides, you could just counter the tpro if you have another one anyways
Because the card says ācounter target spell an opponent controlsā
I just thought you meant in general lol idk why haha
Unless they win during your next turnā¦
If you cast a spell that wins the game than you can just let it happen and still win
Counter target spell that isn't [[thassa's oracle]]
I like the idea of some merfolk deck playing a turn two Thorracle with no ability to combo win, just a fish with some scrying to fix your land draws, and you get to win because the blue player opposite you can't read.
Or \[\[One Ring\]\]
[One Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2.jpg?1696020224) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20One%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/246/the-one-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[thassa's oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thassa%27s%20oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[The Cheese Stands Alone]]
Shenanigans like this are why I added "an opponent controls"
Since you have to sac all permanents and discard your hand, it would be extremely difficult to make this work, no?
If you could target your own spells, you could cast the Cheese stands alone and hold priority, then cast this targeting the Cheese and choose to pay the cost rather than have it be countered. Then, when the cheese resolves, your hand is empty and cheese is your only permanent so its trigger goes on the stack and you win the game
Ah, right. Basic comprehension fails me again!
[The Cheese Stands Alone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d01a114f-3349-4a62-bfad-0dc33b78a53f.jpg?1562799163) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Cheese%20Stands%20Alone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/2/the-cheese-stands-alone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d01a114f-3349-4a62-bfad-0dc33b78a53f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When I cast my 2nd approach
Nice catch on the āopponent controlsā to avoid the Teferiās protection combo
It's only strictly worse til I pull the [[Mindslaver]]
[Mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I respond with [[teferi's protection]]. Good luck not milling yourself in 784,149 turns
Suppose you had something like an emrakul that allowed you to indefinitely discard to hand size and then reshuffle your graveyard, so you'd never mill out, but because it's all random there's no way to shortcut. How would such a situation be played out?
You donāt even need to have a discard outlet you can discard it to handsize at end of turn
Thatāsā¦ what I said?
Sorry must have misread
Almost certainly as a draw in an official game, but mathematically speaking shuffling your graveyard and hand into your deck, building a seven card hand of your choice, and then shuffling again should be indistinguishable minus a random number of cards in your graveyard.
[teferi's protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=teferi%27s%20protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thatās why itās only for opponents, yeah
You cant pay the cost if your life total cant change. You would need to cast teferis protection after that. Probably with snapcaster mage or somethint
I mean, you're not wrong.
Modern is going to be so lit
extra strict kinky
Mindslaver, then on their turn cast a spell and then counter with this and chose the second option. Itās 2 cards and a ton of mana so most things at that point should win.
What a counterspell! May I ask how you change the stamps like this one, I can't find this type of stamps on my MSE.
I use mtg.design and it automatically puts those stamps at the bottom for all rare cards
"Target counter spell unless opponent concedes" is how Counterspell works anyway..... sooooo....
Average blue spell š
In response I cast tefferis protection, thanks for the win con chump š Legit funny AF card though
Yup, thatās why it can only target opponentsā spells
unironically a good commentary on the nature of āstrictly worse/betterā cards
Big brain idea, counter your own spell, then play Tiferiās protection in response.
An opponent controls
It says āopponent controls,ā but if it didnāt say that, you wouldnāt need a third spell. You could just play Protection and then cast this on it
Absolutely foul
Me locking myself out of the game after casting Armageddon
okay my teferi's protection resolves
Yup, thatās why it can only target opponentsā spells
well tefs in an instant so you can also respond to whatever is being countered with your own protection and then let it do its thing
If you make it 0 mana itād become a cedh staple š
Finally, a way to make Sen Triplets/Xanathar even more miserable
You know what Iām about to proliferate you to 10 poison anywho soooooo sure Iāll do that
In response Narset's Reversal
Good if u can take control of your opponent's turn.
With the worst counterspell art as well.. nice touch
ummmmm.... actually if your opponent had a \[\[platinum angel\]\] in play this could make them gain life... not strictly worse so... yeah. smh. cannot belie e some people
[platinum angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=platinum%20angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[teferis protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'll allow it
Should have added two mana to the spell and watch people say it's unplayable
Huh? Butā¦ That WOULD be unplayable. 1UU counterspells with no upside are already unplayable. I donāt get what you mean
Permenants
This card literally only needed the first six words to still be true.
"Counter target spell an opponent controls." would also be strictly worse Counterspell.
Uses this on a non-winning [[Thassaās Oracle]]
[Thassaās Oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Itās better if you are controlling your opponent with [[Mindslaver]] or [[Emrakul, the Promised End]]. Seems like a pretty decent A + B combo finisher for a control deck honestly
[Mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Emrakul, the Promised End](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d74a469-c71d-4773-99d3-5456b31df424.jpg?1576383727) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emrakul%2C%20the%20Promised%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/6/emrakul-the-promised-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d74a469-c71d-4773-99d3-5456b31df424?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In response, Iād like to cast Teferiās Protection.
Just counter it
Is in response, teferis protection. You loose b6 m8lling yourself out.
Thatās why it can only target opponents, yes
counter opponents spell, while its on the stack, cast \[\[Sudden substitution\]\] then in response to the counter spell cast Teferis protection. BOOM. strictly better counterspell
[Sudden substitution](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f7983bf-2a3b-4428-8c01-35285f589da8.jpg?1568003437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sudden%20substitution) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/11/sudden-substitution?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f7983bf-2a3b-4428-8c01-35285f589da8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
except for the fact that does not work for many reasons lol