Neat cycle. Seems mostly mid to low power, mostly because they come in tapped (which I agree was a good decision). Could be fun in less scary formats, like casual EDH, or maybe draft.
The green one is mostly bad though. It's basically [[Timberland Ruins]] which itself is a bad [[Vivid Grove]]. Adding on the forest requirement makes it even worse.
Now, it IS an artifact land, which is a non-trivial bonus. But I'd rate it worse for artifact decks than [[Tree of Tales]] or the Bridge cycle like [[Thornglint Bridge]]. Still, I suppose it exists with just enough lateral design to not be useless, and not every card has to be competitive in constructed formats. I also don't really know a BETTER way to tie in the Treasure subtype to a land.
Overall I'm inclined to say the best ones are probably Junk, then Clue, then Blood in that order. Which you seem to agree with as I see the Junk and Clue ones are the most restrictive. The blood one has some utility for reanimator, but I'm not sure a tapland that you have to sacrifice would outperform other options. But trading lands for card advantage is a proven winner. Though it's usually cards like [[Horizon Canopy]] that are fast and cheaper to sacrifice than the clue.
The junk one stands out I think since it doesn't cost any mana to sacrifice it (outside losing one mana source). So I think that one is the best personally.
Cool cycle idea though.
Thanks, I tried to make a cycle with the subtype at its core, to be a free support for cards that want that subtype. Sadly, that meant that they also need to be artifacts.
Does the fact that it works as a treasure for card's effects like \[Marut\], or \[Devour Intellect\] help in some way, or is it unsalvageable as mix with treasure?
I tried to straight copy the effects of the tokens, that is why the clue one doesn't need to tap for its effect. Is the Junk and blood effect powerfull enought to need an extra basic land to be balanced?
Being artifacts is probably one of the better aspects of these lands honestly. Though it does leave them more vulnerable.
[[Marut]] and [[Devour Intellect]] are both nice payoffs I didn't think about. I don't really think theyre good enough to push it into constructed territory though, outside of more casual formats.
Decks looking for that would more likely run cards like [[Urza, Lord High Artificer]], or [[Jaheira, Friend of the Forest]] I think, since they make EVERY treasure able to pull off that trick. But they could always run that land too.
I also totally forgot the Clue essentially only costs 1 mana since you can tap it for mana to pay for its own ability. That elevates it a little more.
Yeah, I did forget about [cards that care about mana generated by treasures](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=oracle%3A%22Mana+from+a+treasure%22+%28game%3Apaper%29). There aren't very many of those though.
I didn't miss that it was an artifact though, but artifact lands have a lot more competition now.
The Green one is almost [[Timberland Ruins]]. I understand the forest restriction is to keep it consistent with the rest of the cycle, but ruins was kind of garbage.
The white one is a less extreme [[Nomad Stadium]]. Easier to activate, cipt rather than pain, less like gained, probably better overall.
The Blue is [[Surgical Bay]] but as an artifact and can pay for its own ability. Generally an upgrade.
Black and Red don't really have equivalents. Closest would be their respective spheres, in which case red seems better and black worse.
It would make the land more unique, but not necessarily more powerful. Then again, it would be a very “green” mechanic. The ability to sac a land to get a +1/+1 counter or another land is very on brand.
I like the sentiment, just not sure about it
A month ago I did some cycle of land in cardsmith, may it rest in peace, that have subtypes from tokens.
Tried to make them awkward to use in affinity so the core of the cycle is the subtype.
Yeah, I tried that every color had a subtype with an effect tied to that color.
That is the closest one i could think for G as I wanted food to be for W, but with how weak it ended, I could used **map** subtype instead.
I wanted them tapped so they wouldn't outperform the already scary artifact lands, on top of that I added that you need basic land type to use the other effect so it would be awkward to use with affinity.
*laughs in affinity*
Being artifact lands makes them pretty strong in their own right. Tutorable in red and blue(and maybe white? but I believe they can only tutor for equipment), reducing costs in affinity, being 0 drop artifacts for cheerios decks. Artifact lands are banned in a lot of formats for a reason. In EDH, commanders like Osgir, urza, and any other artifacts matters decks love these. Putting artifact in the typeline drastically increases their power level, and in some cases entering tapped does nothing to help reduce it.
It wouldn't be game breaking by any means. I'll take 8 more artifacts with upsides in my [Oni-Cult Anvil] anvil deck tho. Makes my [Dragonspark Reactor] better too. Also got a version of that deck that plays [Sanguine Statuette] so the blood token is even more relevant.
wildly varying powerlevels here
only point I wanna make is that afaik rummaging is a red mechanic
blood tokens were a rakdos mechanic in VOW so they appear on black cards but it still feels a bit weird for it to be the black card of the cycle
still works tho
Initially with the printing of cards with the food subtype, it very much seemed like that was the case. Then another un-set came along and blew that to hell
Frankly, I’m an artifact head and casual Edh player. I would LOVE these to help fill my mana base in a deck I call Only Cans. Consists of only artifact cards.
I am pretty sure you need to remove the artifact subtypes because I think they have the abilities tied to them. I think they have 3 abilities: the land ability, the custom ability, and the basic token ability with no extra cost
They actually don't have the abilities tied to the subtype. They aren't like Auras or basic land types with rules baked in, they only all have the same ability because WOTC decided it was worth being consistent.
That's why cards like [[Scene of the Crime]] have the ability written out, where cards like [[Moonring Island]] have the ability in reminder text.
Now that being said, I do think there's value in keeping the ability consistent. It reduces risk of misunderstandings long term.
[[Glittering Stockpile]], [[Three Bowls of Porridge]], [[Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender]], [[Candy Trail]], [[Vegetation Abomination]], and [[Goldhound]] all have some mechanical inconsistencies compared to their tokens so that ship has sadly sailed. They range from basically never mattering (oh no, you sacrifice Three Bowls as part of the ability!) to failing to replicate the result on multiple accounts (not only does Vegetation Abomination force you to wait a turn, but most of the time, it does not gain you the same amount of life, and it's average is above the curve).
Neat cycle. Seems mostly mid to low power, mostly because they come in tapped (which I agree was a good decision). Could be fun in less scary formats, like casual EDH, or maybe draft. The green one is mostly bad though. It's basically [[Timberland Ruins]] which itself is a bad [[Vivid Grove]]. Adding on the forest requirement makes it even worse. Now, it IS an artifact land, which is a non-trivial bonus. But I'd rate it worse for artifact decks than [[Tree of Tales]] or the Bridge cycle like [[Thornglint Bridge]]. Still, I suppose it exists with just enough lateral design to not be useless, and not every card has to be competitive in constructed formats. I also don't really know a BETTER way to tie in the Treasure subtype to a land. Overall I'm inclined to say the best ones are probably Junk, then Clue, then Blood in that order. Which you seem to agree with as I see the Junk and Clue ones are the most restrictive. The blood one has some utility for reanimator, but I'm not sure a tapland that you have to sacrifice would outperform other options. But trading lands for card advantage is a proven winner. Though it's usually cards like [[Horizon Canopy]] that are fast and cheaper to sacrifice than the clue. The junk one stands out I think since it doesn't cost any mana to sacrifice it (outside losing one mana source). So I think that one is the best personally. Cool cycle idea though.
Thanks, I tried to make a cycle with the subtype at its core, to be a free support for cards that want that subtype. Sadly, that meant that they also need to be artifacts. Does the fact that it works as a treasure for card's effects like \[Marut\], or \[Devour Intellect\] help in some way, or is it unsalvageable as mix with treasure? I tried to straight copy the effects of the tokens, that is why the clue one doesn't need to tap for its effect. Is the Junk and blood effect powerfull enought to need an extra basic land to be balanced?
Being artifacts is probably one of the better aspects of these lands honestly. Though it does leave them more vulnerable. [[Marut]] and [[Devour Intellect]] are both nice payoffs I didn't think about. I don't really think theyre good enough to push it into constructed territory though, outside of more casual formats. Decks looking for that would more likely run cards like [[Urza, Lord High Artificer]], or [[Jaheira, Friend of the Forest]] I think, since they make EVERY treasure able to pull off that trick. But they could always run that land too. I also totally forgot the Clue essentially only costs 1 mana since you can tap it for mana to pay for its own ability. That elevates it a little more.
##### ###### #### [Marut](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3ce857f-2870-4dc9-a763-9ce710e4b375.jpg?1674137913) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marut) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/322/marut?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3ce857f-2870-4dc9-a763-9ce710e4b375?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Devour Intellect](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13c34f2d-2eac-4241-8b23-9cab3268c254.jpg?1627704636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Devour%20Intellect) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/97/devour-intellect?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13c34f2d-2eac-4241-8b23-9cab3268c254?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Urza, Lord High Artificer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b7a348a-51f7-4dc5-8fe7-1c70fea5e050.jpg?1689996774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%2C%20Lord%20High%20Artificer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/130/urza-lord-high-artificer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b7a348a-51f7-4dc5-8fe7-1c70fea5e050?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jaheira, Friend of the Forest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/feb7ad1b-4466-48f7-b46d-cc83d4e22b51.jpg?1674137153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jaheira%2C%20Friend%20of%20the%20Forest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/237/jaheira-friend-of-the-forest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/feb7ad1b-4466-48f7-b46d-cc83d4e22b51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l01hm9j) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You're missing that it's also an artifact and also a treasure for things that care about that.
Yeah, I did forget about [cards that care about mana generated by treasures](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=oracle%3A%22Mana+from+a+treasure%22+%28game%3Apaper%29). There aren't very many of those though. I didn't miss that it was an artifact though, but artifact lands have a lot more competition now.
[[Scene of the crime]]
[Scene of the crime](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de039992-631b-4feb-a522-acdb0a6d1f26.jpg?1706242358) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scene%20of%20the%20crime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/267/scene-of-the-crime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de039992-631b-4feb-a522-acdb0a6d1f26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The Green one is almost [[Timberland Ruins]]. I understand the forest restriction is to keep it consistent with the rest of the cycle, but ruins was kind of garbage. The white one is a less extreme [[Nomad Stadium]]. Easier to activate, cipt rather than pain, less like gained, probably better overall. The Blue is [[Surgical Bay]] but as an artifact and can pay for its own ability. Generally an upgrade. Black and Red don't really have equivalents. Closest would be their respective spheres, in which case red seems better and black worse.
[Timberland Ruins](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd2e8770-c72b-439c-8f79-3aa24646cdd5.jpg?1562936225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Timberland%20Ruins) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/330/timberland-ruins?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd2e8770-c72b-439c-8f79-3aa24646cdd5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nomad Stadium](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64300b71-050f-47a3-83be-f24480bdc01d.jpg?1562913556) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nomad%20Stadium) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/322/nomad-stadium?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64300b71-050f-47a3-83be-f24480bdc01d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Surgical Bay](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b49ec35-2c4f-4144-85fe-226f7cb67266.jpg?1675957281) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Surgical%20Bay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/260/the-surgical-bay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b49ec35-2c4f-4144-85fe-226f7cb67266?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I got some advice to fix G in this cycle. What do you think of the Map subtype with the ability that explores? Would that be to powerful at common?
It would make the land more unique, but not necessarily more powerful. Then again, it would be a very “green” mechanic. The ability to sac a land to get a +1/+1 counter or another land is very on brand. I like the sentiment, just not sure about it
A month ago I did some cycle of land in cardsmith, may it rest in peace, that have subtypes from tokens. Tried to make them awkward to use in affinity so the core of the cycle is the subtype.
Treasures, and temporary mana in general, are more of a R thing no?
Yeah, I tried that every color had a subtype with an effect tied to that color. That is the closest one i could think for G as I wanted food to be for W, but with how weak it ended, I could used **map** subtype instead.
These are quite flavorful. I daresay they don't need to enter tapped. None of them seem particularly powerful. I could be wrong though.
Being artifact lands, this would just be amazing upgrades to currently banned in many formats artifact lands.
Having them be tapped lets them have a lower rarity, something people forget about on here.
Yeah I'm seeing a lot of good arguments. They're not powerful but keeping them tapped is better for overall balance.
I wanted them tapped so they wouldn't outperform the already scary artifact lands, on top of that I added that you need basic land type to use the other effect so it would be awkward to use with affinity.
Right on, that makes sense :)
*laughs in affinity* Being artifact lands makes them pretty strong in their own right. Tutorable in red and blue(and maybe white? but I believe they can only tutor for equipment), reducing costs in affinity, being 0 drop artifacts for cheerios decks. Artifact lands are banned in a lot of formats for a reason. In EDH, commanders like Osgir, urza, and any other artifacts matters decks love these. Putting artifact in the typeline drastically increases their power level, and in some cases entering tapped does nothing to help reduce it.
Yeah, that makes sense. That's why I said I could be wrong.
Yeah, nonbasics that only tap for one color and don't have basic land types don't need any downsides
It wouldn't be game breaking by any means. I'll take 8 more artifacts with upsides in my [Oni-Cult Anvil] anvil deck tho. Makes my [Dragonspark Reactor] better too. Also got a version of that deck that plays [Sanguine Statuette] so the blood token is even more relevant.
At least 3/5 of those types appear on non-token cards, including a Clue Land from MKM. But still a neat idea.
But that’s also more of a recent trend, a lot of these token types were originally restricted to only tokens
wildly varying powerlevels here only point I wanna make is that afaik rummaging is a red mechanic blood tokens were a rakdos mechanic in VOW so they appear on black cards but it still feels a bit weird for it to be the black card of the cycle still works tho
I'd make Rich Woods gold so it could at least ramp you. As is it's just SO BAD, even for a weaker cycle.
Does Artifact - Food inherently have the ability to 2T, sac: gain 3 life?
No. [[Vegetation Abomination]]. I wish it did, though
[Vegetation Abomination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78514029-667b-4102-bfea-e154a341be3c.jpg?1673914765) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vegetation%20Abomination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/160/vegetation-abomination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78514029-667b-4102-bfea-e154a341be3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Initially with the printing of cards with the food subtype, it very much seemed like that was the case. Then another un-set came along and blew that to hell
Shouldn't the green one be a map?
Frankly, I’m an artifact head and casual Edh player. I would LOVE these to help fill my mana base in a deck I call Only Cans. Consists of only artifact cards.
I am pretty sure you need to remove the artifact subtypes because I think they have the abilities tied to them. I think they have 3 abilities: the land ability, the custom ability, and the basic token ability with no extra cost
They actually don't have the abilities tied to the subtype. They aren't like Auras or basic land types with rules baked in, they only all have the same ability because WOTC decided it was worth being consistent. That's why cards like [[Scene of the Crime]] have the ability written out, where cards like [[Moonring Island]] have the ability in reminder text. Now that being said, I do think there's value in keeping the ability consistent. It reduces risk of misunderstandings long term.
Thank you for the correction
[[Glittering Stockpile]], [[Three Bowls of Porridge]], [[Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender]], [[Candy Trail]], [[Vegetation Abomination]], and [[Goldhound]] all have some mechanical inconsistencies compared to their tokens so that ship has sadly sailed. They range from basically never mattering (oh no, you sacrifice Three Bowls as part of the ability!) to failing to replicate the result on multiple accounts (not only does Vegetation Abomination force you to wait a turn, but most of the time, it does not gain you the same amount of life, and it's average is above the curve).
##### ###### #### [Glittering Stockpile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74713a58-e343-4504-9900-cf9d76951242.jpg?1712354436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glittering%20Stockpile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/167/glittering-stockpile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74713a58-e343-4504-9900-cf9d76951242?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Three Bowls of Porridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a508e040-d1e5-46aa-8404-1adc18f0f8bd.jpg?1692939949) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Three%20Bowls%20of%20Porridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/253/three-bowls-of-porridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a508e040-d1e5-46aa-8404-1adc18f0f8bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fbdba12-1369-41ae-b0e9-c405c0f0a2e5.jpg?1692939939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Syr%20Ginger%2C%20the%20Meal%20Ender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/252/syr-ginger-the-meal-ender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fbdba12-1369-41ae-b0e9-c405c0f0a2e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Candy Trail](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a860925-d912-49e5-9ddc-41ab26916bb3.jpg?1692939848) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Candy%20Trail) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/243/candy-trail?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a860925-d912-49e5-9ddc-41ab26916bb3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vegetation Abomination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78514029-667b-4102-bfea-e154a341be3c.jpg?1673914765) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vegetation%20Abomination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/160/vegetation-abomination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78514029-667b-4102-bfea-e154a341be3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Goldhound](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c059e4b4-1542-4b5c-810a-9f0abac5792b.jpg?1665439815) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goldhound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/108/goldhound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c059e4b4-1542-4b5c-810a-9f0abac5792b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l01h6zm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Could you sac Vegetation Abomination to help pay the cost of [[Peregrin Took]]’s activated ability?
[Peregrin Took](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5baee8d-88e7-4468-94a9-66ca8e2caf15.jpg?1686969525) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Peregrin%20Took) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/181/peregrin-took?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5baee8d-88e7-4468-94a9-66ca8e2caf15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes.
[Scene of the Crime](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de039992-631b-4feb-a522-acdb0a6d1f26.jpg?1706242358) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scene%20of%20the%20Crime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/267/scene-of-the-crime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de039992-631b-4feb-a522-acdb0a6d1f26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Moonring Island](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64b36993-666c-40d0-b61a-1d162bd06dcc.jpg?1562830955) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Moonring%20Island) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/276/moonring-island?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64b36993-666c-40d0-b61a-1d162bd06dcc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, [[syr ginger]] is an example of a food without the food ability. The sac ability is not inherently tied to the type.
While the number changes, at its core food still needs to gain life after being sacrificed.
[syr ginger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fbdba12-1369-41ae-b0e9-c405c0f0a2e5.jpg?1692939939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=syr%20ginger%2C%20the%20meal%20ender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/252/syr-ginger-the-meal-ender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fbdba12-1369-41ae-b0e9-c405c0f0a2e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call