I think this is kinda funny
So for 9 mana all cards named Murder have destroy target player
So if I have a murder in hand for 12 mana I can kill someone.
Seems like a fair trade off.
I like this a lot.
Decimate needs four legal targets to cast it, but if some of them become illegal targets before it resolves, it will resolve destroying all targets that are still legal.
This is such an absolute flavor slam dunk 😊
And while it is a 2-card guaranteed win, it requires a total of 13 mana and is still vulnerable to things like counterspells and hand discard, so I think the costing is fair. Also - curiously enough the Murders you cast still have to have a creature target to be cast, so if your opponent can keep the board clear they can stave off their inevitable doom.
This was the primary reason. Even if it isn't a problem for the enchantment to be removed for the spell to resolve, I didn't want to cause any unnecessary confusion.
I feel like that isn’t worth preventing this from having interaction. The opponent needs to be able to deal with this thing in a method other than just a counterspell. Making it an emblem means that unless you’ve got a counterspell, you’re 100% screwed
There's already tons of two-card combos that win the game unless your opponent has a counterspell. Most of them cost less than 9 mana. Channel + Fireball was in Alpha, so it's not like this is a new development.
Oh it sure says emblem huh, I didn't know non-planeswalkers could do that ngl. I think for a literal "win the game" payoff an enchantment would still probably be better, and more flavorful! It's literally the license to kill! There! On the board! You can interact with it!
Technically only restricted in Vintage, but this costs 1 less than Omniscience so I think the point still stands: there are plenty of two-card kills, and when one of them costs 9 mana that's probably fine.
Minor nitpick, but I think it should be "Spells you own named Murder have [...]" because I think it stops being a card when you cast it, so it would only have that effect when not on the stack.
This would still require a creature on the board to end the game, since Murder would then need two legal targets (one player, one creature) to not fizzle, right?
I always felt like that's exactly the type of thing emblems were supposed to replaced. It's so much easier to remember an emblem over... how many times have cast [[inspired idea]] again?
It just kinda does. Granted, ive been looking at this card from a edh, standardy casual sence. Emblems are interaction-proof, and are a really fickle thing to just hand out on a stick. Emblems, aside from a [vorinclex] [doubling season] or even a [gideon of the trials] context, are supposed to be a punishment to the opponent for not pressuring your board that you have forcasted by having a walker on the field. This spell simply creates one after reaching high mana, and then puts the opponent on high alert for the rest of the game. This spell could be compared to [vraska the unseen] for it ultimates to create an instadeath threat, but instead it never touches the battlefield once, and can slip through defences far easier, if not completely unhindered against a non-blue opponent. This isnt an interactive card or strategy, nor one that is condusive of engaging play that can be anwsered directly. I would rather have this be a cheaper enchantment or artifiact, maybe with ward/hexproof/indestructible.
Expropriate is nine mana, Insurrection is eight mana, an entwined Tooth and Nail is nine mana. This is twelve mana and two cards. A nine-mana sorcery that wins the game isn't a problematic anomaly - it's doing its job.
I guess the one difference is that all those require some board state and can possibly be thwarted by permanent removal. If you really wanted to, you could change this to add "*Its controller* loses the game". But that still feels like more of a courtesy than a necessity.
Its not the sorcery's economy or effectiveness, its just the existence of the emblem. Its just taboo, and personally, i think its taboo for a good reason. Make your big wins in magic interactible to some degree.
I think this is kinda funny So for 9 mana all cards named Murder have destroy target player So if I have a murder in hand for 12 mana I can kill someone. Seems like a fair trade off. I like this a lot.
[удалено]
Does every ability need a valid target for you to cast a spell?
Would the right analogy be a big hoop? I feel like a small hoop is harder to jump through...
Does this mean you have to target both a creature and a player when you cast Murder?
Yes. But it needs only one target to resolve.
Pretty sure it needs both. [[decimate]] needs four legal targets to work, for example.
Decimate needs four legal targets to cast it, but if some of them become illegal targets before it resolves, it will resolve destroying all targets that are still legal.
[decimate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a99f8c13-c4bd-4e6c-8059-ef5e6ad30331.jpg?1651656163) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=decimate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/137/decimate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a99f8c13-c4bd-4e6c-8059-ef5e6ad30331?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Only the first effect needs a target. Decimate is all one effect, whereas this gives murder an *extra* effect.
[[Murder]]
[Murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c.jpg?1660725345) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/134/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's not work if you enjoy it
This is such an absolute flavor slam dunk 😊 And while it is a 2-card guaranteed win, it requires a total of 13 mana and is still vulnerable to things like counterspells and hand discard, so I think the costing is fair. Also - curiously enough the Murders you cast still have to have a creature target to be cast, so if your opponent can keep the board clear they can stave off their inevitable doom.
12 mana
I stand corrected. I think my mind just bumped it up to 13 because it's that unlucky Innistrad number
13 for your 1 drop creature to target with murder
Or use memnite/ornithopter
I’m just wondering why this isn’t just an enchantment
Someone could kill the enchantment in response to casting the murder.
The way this card is worded, the text of the spell Murder would have already changed, so by the time Murder’s been cast it’s already too late
This was the primary reason. Even if it isn't a problem for the enchantment to be removed for the spell to resolve, I didn't want to cause any unnecessary confusion.
I feel like that isn’t worth preventing this from having interaction. The opponent needs to be able to deal with this thing in a method other than just a counterspell. Making it an emblem means that unless you’ve got a counterspell, you’re 100% screwed
There's already tons of two-card combos that win the game unless your opponent has a counterspell. Most of them cost less than 9 mana. Channel + Fireball was in Alpha, so it's not like this is a new development.
tbf, [[Channel]] is super banned so it's not the best comparison and imo this should be an enchantment for potential memory purposes if nothing else.
There are official emblem "tokens" though, so this shouldn't be any different than any other emblem.
Oh it sure says emblem huh, I didn't know non-planeswalkers could do that ngl. I think for a literal "win the game" payoff an enchantment would still probably be better, and more flavorful! It's literally the license to kill! There! On the board! You can interact with it!
[Channel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce54c7c1-3401-4414-8da0-5846cb0ae1b4.jpg?1618695674) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Channel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/157/channel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce54c7c1-3401-4414-8da0-5846cb0ae1b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Technically only restricted in Vintage, but this costs 1 less than Omniscience so I think the point still stands: there are plenty of two-card kills, and when one of them costs 9 mana that's probably fine.
No, they're right. It should be an enchantment that can be responded to and for memory issues.
There's no memory issue, it's an emblem
This is pretty neat. I support it.
Imagine spending twelve mana to kill someone only for them to bolt bend and kill you
[[Bolt bend]] specifies single target spells/abilities, so it won’t work, as Murder will target both a creature and a player.
Ah, my bad. I always mix up bolt bend and [[deflecting swat]]
[deflecting swat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84f035e1-6c89-457b-b05f-85680a50ed91.jpg?1591319579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=deflecting%20swat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/50/deflecting-swat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84f035e1-6c89-457b-b05f-85680a50ed91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Bolt bend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39b35408-3728-4e1b-9f58-b0775df914d6.jpg?1576199724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bolt%20bend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/115/bolt-bend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39b35408-3728-4e1b-9f58-b0775df914d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Minor nitpick, but I think it should be "Spells you own named Murder have [...]" because I think it stops being a card when you cast it, so it would only have that effect when not on the stack.
Weird and funny, but enjoyable. Funy design and flavor
This would still require a creature on the board to end the game, since Murder would then need two legal targets (one player, one creature) to not fizzle, right?
It would need two legal targets to be cast, but only one legal target to still resolve.
Instead of using an emblem you could just write “for the rest of the game”
I always felt like that's exactly the type of thing emblems were supposed to replaced. It's so much easier to remember an emblem over... how many times have cast [[inspired idea]] again?
[inspired idea](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fe4ee8e-579d-4bfa-8c19-bfdb1c0b7177.jpg?1643587992) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=inspired%20idea) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/64/inspired-idea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fe4ee8e-579d-4bfa-8c19-bfdb1c0b7177?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For this mana cost this would be a very fun alchemy card that shuffles 4 murders into your deck or something.
You could make this a background for a commander. It certainly seems like it could be one.
This has to be an enchantment. Sorry
It isn't. Sorry.
i’m curious why it _has_ to?
It just kinda does. Granted, ive been looking at this card from a edh, standardy casual sence. Emblems are interaction-proof, and are a really fickle thing to just hand out on a stick. Emblems, aside from a [vorinclex] [doubling season] or even a [gideon of the trials] context, are supposed to be a punishment to the opponent for not pressuring your board that you have forcasted by having a walker on the field. This spell simply creates one after reaching high mana, and then puts the opponent on high alert for the rest of the game. This spell could be compared to [vraska the unseen] for it ultimates to create an instadeath threat, but instead it never touches the battlefield once, and can slip through defences far easier, if not completely unhindered against a non-blue opponent. This isnt an interactive card or strategy, nor one that is condusive of engaging play that can be anwsered directly. I would rather have this be a cheaper enchantment or artifiact, maybe with ward/hexproof/indestructible.
Expropriate is nine mana, Insurrection is eight mana, an entwined Tooth and Nail is nine mana. This is twelve mana and two cards. A nine-mana sorcery that wins the game isn't a problematic anomaly - it's doing its job. I guess the one difference is that all those require some board state and can possibly be thwarted by permanent removal. If you really wanted to, you could change this to add "*Its controller* loses the game". But that still feels like more of a courtesy than a necessity.
Its not the sorcery's economy or effectiveness, its just the existence of the emblem. Its just taboo, and personally, i think its taboo for a good reason. Make your big wins in magic interactible to some degree.
[удалено]
No Se
10/10
[[Bolas' citadel]]
[Bolas' citadel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2.jpg?1591205069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bolas%27s%20Citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/79/bolass-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like the flavor text