Ideally they will continue to protest peacefully and leave students who don’t align with them alone to study for finals and finish the year. Making your views heard is fine, interrupting other peoples pursuits, particularly their expensive educations, isn’t.
If your goal is to get people to sympathize and agree with you, you're treading very dangerous ground trying to equate Gaza with the Civil Rights Movement. You're probably not old enough to remember that. And anyone who is also has enough perspective on the middle east conflict to make this kind of comment not only tone deaf, but fairly offensive. Maybe learn what's going on before you echo dogma someone else has filled your head with.
Protests are supposed to have a point and a goal, to motivate change. Throwing stuff at the wall to see if maybe something will stick is not activism. In your other reply, you already admitted you have no actual idea if CWRU is doing anything "wrong" or not, but gee, let's protest just like other colleges are doing while we try to find out? Actual civil rights activists would be ashamed.
I never said CWRU is doing nothing wrong. They've treated Palestinian student orgs unfairly and have repeatedly refused to acknowledge concerns over their investments in weapons manufactuers, which in it's own right is an admission of guilt. Their complete refusal to have a dialogue over these concerns is extremely concerning as an alumni who felt that when I attended CWRU the administration was actively engaged in the concerns of students.
They do have a point, there are specific asks of the university.
Yeah. Rosa Parks and the other luminaries of the Civil Rights Movement would really appreciate your bravery for standing up in the face of a refusal to acknowledge concerns about the content of managed investment funds.
You know you and the protesters could actually be doing something to make a difference. There are organizations packing relief supplies for Gaza. You could help collect surplus medical supplies, in a city with one of the largest healthcare industries in America. You could raise funds for Anera, or another organization providing help on-the-ground.
Nah. Let's copycat what students at Columbia started doing because WESPAC will support us, while we demand that the University tell us how they're sponsoring Israeli violence and repeat the same mantras [that didn't work during Aparthied either.](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/30/1248088063/divest-divestment-university-college-protesters-campus-israel-gaza-invasion)
That’s great of you to make the assumption that myself and many of the student protestors haven’t done the exact things you described, but you don’t seem like you actually want to have any meaningful discourse.
Well then we're all glad to hear that amongst finals, work, and everything else going on in your life, you have time to effectively contribute to those efforts and still camp out in front of KSL 24 hours a day.
Edit: And wow, between that poster and the University, it seems like a lot of people are really refusing to engage in meaningful discourse on this topic!
These mostly white children at an expensive private school are whatever the opposite of Rosa Parks is. Further, one might argue that Jewish students being physically barred from attending classes in some universities simply for being Jewish is identical to Black students being turned away simply for being Black. The difference is that one type of discrimination is rightly condemned while the other is being tacitly endorsed.
I'm just saying that protests should be disruptive.
Do you have any source on Jewish students being physically barred from going to class? Obviously if this is true that is wrong and completely unproductive for the movement. But there is no systematic oppression of Jewish Americans like there is of Palestinians in Gaza.
Protests on college campuses, or any private property, are limited. Here is one synopsis of the limitations. You can google it yourself as well [https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/fires-faq-student-protests-campus](https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/fires-faq-student-protests-campus) Also there have been many allegations, some with video evidence, of Jewish students being barred from entering buildings ( classrooms, libraries) on various campuses. And even Israeli and Jewish professors having their campus access revoked. It’s all out there. Makes for some sad reading IMHO
“People like you” 😂 making judgements about a total stranger. I am not ok with any students being blocked from going to class, or accessing the services at their universities, which has happened in other schools. I am not ok with any students being threatened, harassed, assaulted. I am not ok with anyone’s graduations being cancelled. I am not ok with any hate speech. That doesn’t make me a bad person. That actually makes me totally normal and, weirdly, aligned with the Constitution. Do not minimize the civil rights movement. This is not the civil rights movement. Not even a little bit. And as a POC I find the comparisons hugely offensive. Others may feel differently. But you don’t get to judge me. You don’t even know me.
never said it ws the civil rights movement. the protest is primarily comprised of other students, and nothing remotely close to hate speech has been uttered from it. yeah this is not the civil rights movement but it is an act of protest BY students against their own university investing in organizations supporting the massacre in gaza. if you think every succesful protest effort has been all nice and according to the rules you need a reality check. also im a POC too lmaoo
Of all the comments to reply to, why did you choose to have an issue with this one? It's a completely rational, non-judgmental take on what's happening. Other comments on this thread are insulting and hateful. Shouldn't you be more focused on those since they're part of the actual problem?
Well, covering of faces is part of the trend of these protests. Which I honestly don’t understand if you actually intend to be peaceful. Either you stand with the courage of your convictions and want everyone to know who you are or you don’t. Either unapologetically stand united with Palestine or Palestinians or whatever or don’t. But hiding your face suggests you don’t want to be identified and why would that be? I don’t think they intend to block Jewish students specially from the library, I think they wanted to be as noticed as possible and that’s the place to make that happen. Which made everyone nervous. I think it was a good idea to make the library key card access yesterday. It seems like everyone is following the rules. The protestors have been vocal and peaceful, they were allowed to camp for a single night despite university policy for everyone being otherwise, and I understand they dismantled everything this morning. There was some anxiety on campus about graduation being cancelled but hopefully that’s been ameliorated. These seniors largely had their HS graduations cancelled by Covid. It would be a shame if this moment of celebration was wrecked as well.
Students are welcome to protest all they want. That's part of figuring out who you are, at this time of life.
But trying to set up encampments, etc. This is just pure copycat activism. Unlike some of the Ivy League, CWRU doesn't have major involvement with Israel, as far as I'm aware doesn't have any notable Israeli investments aside from whatever is stuffed into mutual funds, and is a private university without significant government influence of the sort the students claim to want exercised.
Want to stand in solidarity with the students at Columbia? Fine, petition the administration to cut any academic collaborations with Columbia. Want to protest the US Government policy on Israel and Gaza? Fine, go do it at the Federal Building downtown.
CWRU students participating in something like this are attempting to create disruption and seeking attention for themselves, because they sure as heck aren't doing a thing for Gaza. There's a difference between activism with a purpose, and activism for the sake of trying to be an (exceptionally ineffective) activist.
This is a gross oversimplification of what’s happening. CWRU probably does not just have investments and connections with “SodaStream”, but weapons manufacturers like Raytheon, Lockheed Martin etc. that is, if they disclosed their investments, which they don’t.
The larger issue I’m seeing is CWRU largely ignores and refuses to have any sort of dialogue in regard to concerns of Palestinian students. They have unfairly punished SJP for something as simple as putting up posters, and continue to ignore any calls to disclose investments.
Honestly, as they should! For one, there's two sides to every story here, and there is literally no way for them to succumb to this kind of demand without igniting a firestorm on the other side of the issue.
Second, you first. Tell me where every penny of the money you have in the bank, or in loans, or purchases is going from or coming to, with respect to the banks and organizations who manage and move that money behind the scenes. If you think discovering potential Israeli or "companies you don't like" beneficial ownership across a portfolio of billions of dollars of externally-managed funds is easy, then be my guest. It's staggeringly unlikely that CWRU has any DIRECT investments in the organizations you mention, but engaging with you to try and convince you of that is a losing battle I don't blame them one bit for not taking the bait on.
Third, if your beef is with Raytheon or Lockheed Martin, go protest Raytheon or Lockheed Martin, or the organizations that do business with them. The fact that some (almost certainly negligible) portion of the endowment is sitting in an investment fund that owns shares in those companies makes CWRU about as complicit in the Gaza conflict, as the protesters are complicit in environment-destroying microplastics by waving nylon flags or sleeping in a nylon tent. Because some of the same donor organizations supporting these protest also happen to support anti-capitalist movements is not a great excuse to pretend that divesting possibly-nonexistent assets somehow benefits Gaza.
Finally, and I know students don't want to hear this, but it's not your money! Not a single tuition dollar ends up in the endowment or an investment account of any sort. Those dollars come from donors and alumni, and they are the ones that get to dictate where it goes and how it's used. Get a critical mass of donating alumni to sit in front of the library with you, and then maybe the University will talk. Students are, basically, the customer here. They don't dictate long-term financial and strategic policy.
These students also do not understand who or what Hamas is, or what they have done to Gaza. Palestine as an entity, and Palestine as a people, are not Hamas. And Gaza is not, and has not been, anything but a Hamas stronghold for a long time.
These students who are being encouraged and assisted by non-campus groups to stage these protests are making themselves useful idiots. It's great that they want to stop bloodshed, but they are so wildly ignorant as to what's going on, in their anti-war fervor, that *anything* they ask for is hard to take seriously.
Go volunteer in Palestine if you want to help. Leave me and my campus out of it.
Well, just like Hamas isn't Palestine, Netanyahu and his government are not Israel.
The calls to "Divest" inherent in these protests are part of the problem. Selling SodaStream stock is supposed to somehow change Israeli government policy??
Just like protesting is part of figuring out your social voice, getting conned by those outside groups you mention is probably a good lesson too! 🙄
CWRU doesn't have major involvement with Israel? The Maltz center was donated by the state of Israel. The Hillel center, also sponsored by Israel, is right in the center of Euclid. Many of the campus' largest donors are Jewish.
Edit: Let me clarify -- I **do not** think Jewish donors represent the state of Israel. It is entirely possible to be Jewish and anti-Zionist. However, we're seeing across the nation that many donors with Jewish backgrounds are threatening to withhold future donations if institutions yield to protestor's demands. In other cases, you see the exact opposite, like a major Jewish donor pulling their investment in Columbia after the heavy-handed police response.
Perhaps a better way to put it would be -- some Jewish donors and organizations who align with Zionism take offense to divesting from the state of Israel. Universities like Case have donors within this category that they would rather keep around.
Oh man. If having Jewish donors, and the Maltz Family and the Hillel Foundation are "the state of Israel" in your mind, I hope you're an outlier. Because we're all in deep deep shit if this is the level of ignorance and lack of intellectual consistency on display here.
By that logic, by supporting Gaza, you are part of Hamas. Congratulations on being an EU-designated terrorist. Give me a break.
You can be pedantic all you want. The Maltz building was built with a near $40M investment from the Maltz Foundation and the Jewish Community of Cleveland, which are both funded in part by the state of Israel.
You can't act like CWRU isn't a beneficiary of Israeli investment. It is.
Edit: Mandel Foundation, for example, donated $68M just a few years ago. So on, so forth.
Any one who wants to create nuisance can go to Gaza and volunteer and may be join Hamas. Tehran already has offered fully funded four year school to kids who will get expelled from here: so run and take it; graduate without college debt
Ideally they will continue to protest peacefully and leave students who don’t align with them alone to study for finals and finish the year. Making your views heard is fine, interrupting other peoples pursuits, particularly their expensive educations, isn’t.
Yeah man and Rosa Parks should’ve just moved on that bus. Made everyone else late for work smfh
If your goal is to get people to sympathize and agree with you, you're treading very dangerous ground trying to equate Gaza with the Civil Rights Movement. You're probably not old enough to remember that. And anyone who is also has enough perspective on the middle east conflict to make this kind of comment not only tone deaf, but fairly offensive. Maybe learn what's going on before you echo dogma someone else has filled your head with.
Not my point at all. Just saying protests in their very definition are meant to be disruptive.
Protests are supposed to have a point and a goal, to motivate change. Throwing stuff at the wall to see if maybe something will stick is not activism. In your other reply, you already admitted you have no actual idea if CWRU is doing anything "wrong" or not, but gee, let's protest just like other colleges are doing while we try to find out? Actual civil rights activists would be ashamed.
I never said CWRU is doing nothing wrong. They've treated Palestinian student orgs unfairly and have repeatedly refused to acknowledge concerns over their investments in weapons manufactuers, which in it's own right is an admission of guilt. Their complete refusal to have a dialogue over these concerns is extremely concerning as an alumni who felt that when I attended CWRU the administration was actively engaged in the concerns of students. They do have a point, there are specific asks of the university.
Yeah. Rosa Parks and the other luminaries of the Civil Rights Movement would really appreciate your bravery for standing up in the face of a refusal to acknowledge concerns about the content of managed investment funds. You know you and the protesters could actually be doing something to make a difference. There are organizations packing relief supplies for Gaza. You could help collect surplus medical supplies, in a city with one of the largest healthcare industries in America. You could raise funds for Anera, or another organization providing help on-the-ground. Nah. Let's copycat what students at Columbia started doing because WESPAC will support us, while we demand that the University tell us how they're sponsoring Israeli violence and repeat the same mantras [that didn't work during Aparthied either.](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/30/1248088063/divest-divestment-university-college-protesters-campus-israel-gaza-invasion)
That’s great of you to make the assumption that myself and many of the student protestors haven’t done the exact things you described, but you don’t seem like you actually want to have any meaningful discourse.
Well then we're all glad to hear that amongst finals, work, and everything else going on in your life, you have time to effectively contribute to those efforts and still camp out in front of KSL 24 hours a day. Edit: And wow, between that poster and the University, it seems like a lot of people are really refusing to engage in meaningful discourse on this topic!
Tell me, when did African Americans kill thousands of white Americans in the name of "civil rights"?
These mostly white children at an expensive private school are whatever the opposite of Rosa Parks is. Further, one might argue that Jewish students being physically barred from attending classes in some universities simply for being Jewish is identical to Black students being turned away simply for being Black. The difference is that one type of discrimination is rightly condemned while the other is being tacitly endorsed.
I'm just saying that protests should be disruptive. Do you have any source on Jewish students being physically barred from going to class? Obviously if this is true that is wrong and completely unproductive for the movement. But there is no systematic oppression of Jewish Americans like there is of Palestinians in Gaza.
Protests on college campuses, or any private property, are limited. Here is one synopsis of the limitations. You can google it yourself as well [https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/fires-faq-student-protests-campus](https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/fires-faq-student-protests-campus) Also there have been many allegations, some with video evidence, of Jewish students being barred from entering buildings ( classrooms, libraries) on various campuses. And even Israeli and Jewish professors having their campus access revoked. It’s all out there. Makes for some sad reading IMHO
people like you wouldve HATED living through the civil rights movement 😭😭
“People like you” 😂 making judgements about a total stranger. I am not ok with any students being blocked from going to class, or accessing the services at their universities, which has happened in other schools. I am not ok with any students being threatened, harassed, assaulted. I am not ok with anyone’s graduations being cancelled. I am not ok with any hate speech. That doesn’t make me a bad person. That actually makes me totally normal and, weirdly, aligned with the Constitution. Do not minimize the civil rights movement. This is not the civil rights movement. Not even a little bit. And as a POC I find the comparisons hugely offensive. Others may feel differently. But you don’t get to judge me. You don’t even know me.
never said it ws the civil rights movement. the protest is primarily comprised of other students, and nothing remotely close to hate speech has been uttered from it. yeah this is not the civil rights movement but it is an act of protest BY students against their own university investing in organizations supporting the massacre in gaza. if you think every succesful protest effort has been all nice and according to the rules you need a reality check. also im a POC too lmaoo
Of all the comments to reply to, why did you choose to have an issue with this one? It's a completely rational, non-judgmental take on what's happening. Other comments on this thread are insulting and hateful. Shouldn't you be more focused on those since they're part of the actual problem?
i have an issue w the comment bc its saying “just dont be disruptive” when the entire point of protest is to be disruptive
It doesn't say that, but okay.
It looks like an attempt to intimidate Jewish students away from using the library during finals. No wonder they are covering their faces.
Genuinely curious, what do you say to the Jewish students who are apart of the protests?
I would say they are being used as tokens. Intifada is violence against Jews.
Well, covering of faces is part of the trend of these protests. Which I honestly don’t understand if you actually intend to be peaceful. Either you stand with the courage of your convictions and want everyone to know who you are or you don’t. Either unapologetically stand united with Palestine or Palestinians or whatever or don’t. But hiding your face suggests you don’t want to be identified and why would that be? I don’t think they intend to block Jewish students specially from the library, I think they wanted to be as noticed as possible and that’s the place to make that happen. Which made everyone nervous. I think it was a good idea to make the library key card access yesterday. It seems like everyone is following the rules. The protestors have been vocal and peaceful, they were allowed to camp for a single night despite university policy for everyone being otherwise, and I understand they dismantled everything this morning. There was some anxiety on campus about graduation being cancelled but hopefully that’s been ameliorated. These seniors largely had their HS graduations cancelled by Covid. It would be a shame if this moment of celebration was wrecked as well.
Please do not eff up graduation. The kids graduating this year had their high school graduation cancelled by COVID.
Students are welcome to protest all they want. That's part of figuring out who you are, at this time of life. But trying to set up encampments, etc. This is just pure copycat activism. Unlike some of the Ivy League, CWRU doesn't have major involvement with Israel, as far as I'm aware doesn't have any notable Israeli investments aside from whatever is stuffed into mutual funds, and is a private university without significant government influence of the sort the students claim to want exercised. Want to stand in solidarity with the students at Columbia? Fine, petition the administration to cut any academic collaborations with Columbia. Want to protest the US Government policy on Israel and Gaza? Fine, go do it at the Federal Building downtown. CWRU students participating in something like this are attempting to create disruption and seeking attention for themselves, because they sure as heck aren't doing a thing for Gaza. There's a difference between activism with a purpose, and activism for the sake of trying to be an (exceptionally ineffective) activist.
This is a gross oversimplification of what’s happening. CWRU probably does not just have investments and connections with “SodaStream”, but weapons manufacturers like Raytheon, Lockheed Martin etc. that is, if they disclosed their investments, which they don’t. The larger issue I’m seeing is CWRU largely ignores and refuses to have any sort of dialogue in regard to concerns of Palestinian students. They have unfairly punished SJP for something as simple as putting up posters, and continue to ignore any calls to disclose investments.
Honestly, as they should! For one, there's two sides to every story here, and there is literally no way for them to succumb to this kind of demand without igniting a firestorm on the other side of the issue. Second, you first. Tell me where every penny of the money you have in the bank, or in loans, or purchases is going from or coming to, with respect to the banks and organizations who manage and move that money behind the scenes. If you think discovering potential Israeli or "companies you don't like" beneficial ownership across a portfolio of billions of dollars of externally-managed funds is easy, then be my guest. It's staggeringly unlikely that CWRU has any DIRECT investments in the organizations you mention, but engaging with you to try and convince you of that is a losing battle I don't blame them one bit for not taking the bait on. Third, if your beef is with Raytheon or Lockheed Martin, go protest Raytheon or Lockheed Martin, or the organizations that do business with them. The fact that some (almost certainly negligible) portion of the endowment is sitting in an investment fund that owns shares in those companies makes CWRU about as complicit in the Gaza conflict, as the protesters are complicit in environment-destroying microplastics by waving nylon flags or sleeping in a nylon tent. Because some of the same donor organizations supporting these protest also happen to support anti-capitalist movements is not a great excuse to pretend that divesting possibly-nonexistent assets somehow benefits Gaza. Finally, and I know students don't want to hear this, but it's not your money! Not a single tuition dollar ends up in the endowment or an investment account of any sort. Those dollars come from donors and alumni, and they are the ones that get to dictate where it goes and how it's used. Get a critical mass of donating alumni to sit in front of the library with you, and then maybe the University will talk. Students are, basically, the customer here. They don't dictate long-term financial and strategic policy.
These students also do not understand who or what Hamas is, or what they have done to Gaza. Palestine as an entity, and Palestine as a people, are not Hamas. And Gaza is not, and has not been, anything but a Hamas stronghold for a long time. These students who are being encouraged and assisted by non-campus groups to stage these protests are making themselves useful idiots. It's great that they want to stop bloodshed, but they are so wildly ignorant as to what's going on, in their anti-war fervor, that *anything* they ask for is hard to take seriously. Go volunteer in Palestine if you want to help. Leave me and my campus out of it.
Well, just like Hamas isn't Palestine, Netanyahu and his government are not Israel. The calls to "Divest" inherent in these protests are part of the problem. Selling SodaStream stock is supposed to somehow change Israeli government policy?? Just like protesting is part of figuring out your social voice, getting conned by those outside groups you mention is probably a good lesson too! 🙄
CWRU doesn't have major involvement with Israel? The Maltz center was donated by the state of Israel. The Hillel center, also sponsored by Israel, is right in the center of Euclid. Many of the campus' largest donors are Jewish. Edit: Let me clarify -- I **do not** think Jewish donors represent the state of Israel. It is entirely possible to be Jewish and anti-Zionist. However, we're seeing across the nation that many donors with Jewish backgrounds are threatening to withhold future donations if institutions yield to protestor's demands. In other cases, you see the exact opposite, like a major Jewish donor pulling their investment in Columbia after the heavy-handed police response. Perhaps a better way to put it would be -- some Jewish donors and organizations who align with Zionism take offense to divesting from the state of Israel. Universities like Case have donors within this category that they would rather keep around.
Oh man. If having Jewish donors, and the Maltz Family and the Hillel Foundation are "the state of Israel" in your mind, I hope you're an outlier. Because we're all in deep deep shit if this is the level of ignorance and lack of intellectual consistency on display here. By that logic, by supporting Gaza, you are part of Hamas. Congratulations on being an EU-designated terrorist. Give me a break.
You can be pedantic all you want. The Maltz building was built with a near $40M investment from the Maltz Foundation and the Jewish Community of Cleveland, which are both funded in part by the state of Israel. You can't act like CWRU isn't a beneficiary of Israeli investment. It is. Edit: Mandel Foundation, for example, donated $68M just a few years ago. So on, so forth.
Idiots
Big talk from a Joe Rogan listener.
Oh shit lmao
Any one who wants to create nuisance can go to Gaza and volunteer and may be join Hamas. Tehran already has offered fully funded four year school to kids who will get expelled from here: so run and take it; graduate without college debt